You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - "Innervisions" — Stevie Wonder

Episode Date: September 8, 2025

We’re diving back into Stevie Wonder with Innervisions, right in the heart of his classic period from 1972 to 1976. There’s something magical about this stretch of music history, and Innervisions stands as one of the greatest albums to emerge from it.Stevie wrote every song on this album, and played every instrument on many tracks. From "Too High" to "Living For The City" to "Don't You Worry 'Bout A Thing", we pull apart these incredible songs to spend time with the many sides of Stevie Wonder: bass player, drummer, lyricist, and vocalist. Plus -- we're bringing back the keys for this one so Peter and Adam can pull apart all the musical nuances that make jazz musicians love Stevie Wonder so much.Adam breaks down why jazz musicians love Stevie in our You'll Read It newsletter. Sign up for personal reflections and a behind-the-scenes look at the making of You'll Hear It. Start your free Open Studio trial for ALLLLL your jazz lesson needs.This episode references our episode on Talking Book, "Is This Stevie's Greatest Album?" Check it out here.

What's up, Adam? Wow. Oh, okay. In honor of Stevie Wonder, we're doing Intervisions today. One of my favorites, All-Timer. Yeah, it's great. He's got a bunch of tunes in E-flat minor. I was wondering if you had a favorite,

something we could start out with. Something from Intervisions. Intervisions in E-flat minor? Well, of course, I love... Oh. Yep. Very superstitious. Very much not on Intervision.

That's talking book. Oh, okay. But you got others. No, maybe I was thinking of this one. Ah, I wish? Yeah. That's great. Except it's not on InterVisions.

That's songs of the key of life. A couple years later, close. That's not, okay. But this one's definitely on Intervisions. I feel like it might not be. Okay, go ahead. No, trust me. Right?

Boo. I just called to say I hate you. No? No, boo. No, no. Look, let's do this. You all ready? Ah.

Yeah, this is good. I'm Adam Anas And I'm Peter Martin And you're listening to the You'll Hear at podcast Music Explored Explored brought to you today by OpenSudio Go to Open StudioJadogas.com for all Your jazz lesson means, Peter

Yes I'm hesitant Don't say it Is it a big day? I really want to say it But I won't say it I'll say it Adam

Yeah You know what today is It's a big day There you go It really is a big day This is this going to be our apex moment of this season This might be the apex moment of our lives, man.

Oh, we are diving back into Stevie Wonder into the record, Inervisions. Yeah. Which is, you know, it's going to be really fun for us to explore where does this lie in terms of, obviously, it's in the classic period. It's right in the middle of the classic period. But, you know, spoiler alert, we both think this is a great record. Yeah. How great do we think it is? That's going to be the main thing we talk about.

I mean, it's pretty undeniably great. Maybe, Peter, take a couple beats and explain to the kind people. out here what you mean by the classic period okay classic period yeah and I want to make sure I refer to my notes here so I get this accurate um this is a little bit established but it's it's certainly not arbitrary but there's a little bit of bleed through on either end so we don't want to be too dogmatic to say this is the period like stevie created it and as this demarcation point in his recording and musical output but I think that we can see as we look back and listen to these great records that these records are connected we got five albums in five

years. Music of my mind and talking book, which we've covered here at the pod a couple months ago, those both came out in 1972. Then we have this record, Intervisions, which we're going over today, 1973, huge record, one Grammy for album of the year, of course. Then 1974, fulfilling this first finale. And then in 1976, a somewhat delayed record that he'd been working on for two, two and a half years, Songs of the Key of Life. Well, and that's not... Magnus Opus, I would say. Yeah, and you can say, well, 70s. and then 76, he missed a year. But songs in The Key of Life is also a double album, right?

So it's like you get two for that. And it was delayed for a long time by, I think Stevie, like, tinkering with it. It was supposed to come out in 75. Well, it was a masterpiece. So, but, you know, the sort of weakest one of these is maybe just fulfilling this first finale, which is really great. But I think it's just the title is so hard to say. Fulfilling this first finale.

Yeah, it is. You spit a little bit when you say it. Yeah. But no, that's the one that sort of like the least talked about. Yeah. But it's still really great. It's the most introspective for sure. Yeah, and we're going to talk about possibly why that is and where that one falls.

But I mean... There's some classic tunes on that one too. Yeah, and all these records, like, they're so connected in terms of Stevie's. And I think Intervision's more than any of them, you know, this one-man band concept with him playing all the instruments. I think this is his most solitary record in terms of, like, there are a few other people's, you know, doing some backgrounds, a little bit of bass, some guitars. But there's a bunch of tracks where it's only Stevie playing every single instrument. and some of the ones, I think folks are going to be surprised when they hear what those tracks are.

So it's very much like, I mean, this is like Stevie doing his thing. He's confident, great song. He wrote everything on here. Yeah, also some real reflective, socially conscious stuff on here, which wasn't a huge part of the first two of this string. Dabbled just a little bit here in there. A little bit here and there. And he goes further in it, I think, in especially songs in The Key of Life

and fulfilling this first finale. but this is sort of like especially Triple F F F F, triple F, yeah, yeah. But, you know, especially with like living for the city. Yeah. Jesus Children of America, things like that. And even too high, too high, he's Mr. No-it-all. Yeah. Have some political things behind them.

And that's very. And super varied on this record. Love, you know, of course, spirituality, politics, and really balance, oh, my God, this record sounds great from beginning to end. You know, we always say that. And we only say that about great records. Yeah.

And then just banger after. Banger too. Bangor after banger. You know, we did last season, we did Talking Book, which I is still put in my humble opinion, which means absolutely nothing. I prefer talking book still to Intervisions after spending this week listening,

preparing for this podcast. Can I say they're equal? Is that acceptable? You can say they're equal. I join both equally, I think. When we did Talking Book, everybody said, because I believe we talked about, like, is this Stevie Wonder's greatest album kind of thing

talking book? But everybody was like, no, Intervision's is. We had so many people. That was surprising, a little bit. A little bit, because you would think it would be like songs in the key of life, which some people mentioned, but a lot of people mentioned inner visions. So this is a lot of people's favorite Stevie Wonder. For me, I still think just front to back talking book is more consistent.

And just there's no skips on that one. And there's a, we can talk about this in quibble bits, but there might be one or two here that are like, would be amazing for any other artists, but I think is maybe not Stevie's best. I'm willing to entertain it a little bit. Okay, so this can. came out on August 3rd, 1973.

Adam Manus was, but not even a glint in anybody's eye at that point. I was two years old. I was two years old. So I don't remember this one in real time. But it's interesting because a lot of these compositions on here, I've heard Stevie do live several times over the year. So it's a record that I've just listened to so much. As I said, it did win a Grammy for album of the year in 1974,

which is a super competitive year. Yeah. We're going to talk about that a little bit later in terms of like, I mean, there was so many great records being made. I know we always say that in the early 70s, but it really is true. We mentioned this on the Paul Simon Still Crazy After All These Years episode that we did a couple of weeks ago

that, you know, Paul Simon lost out, here goes Rhyman Simon, Steve Wonder on this. And got obsessed with Interfissions and made still crazy after all these years as he was listening to Intervisions over and over again. So there's like some interesting lore there between these two very different artists, but who were very much flourishing at this time.

By the way, can we just talk a little bit too about the time? Yeah. I know. I know. We spend a lot of time in the early 70s on this podcast. But there is something magical about this run in music history.

There's something like the combination of the technology at the time where the way things sound, the advancement of like the sort of post-sexual revolution, the post-hippehypid revolution, the post-psychedelic music, post-civil rights. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, civil rights, like feminism, everything, like kind of coming to a cultural point in, at least here in America.

And artists are just like, I mean, as artists do, flourishing with this shit, like really taking off. Right. Speaking to the times. Oh, my gosh. But also making timeless art. You know what? And you know what? Let's talk into it. I'm ready to, I told you before we started.

I'm ready to lean into. But he's getting in. I turned 55 the other day. Yeah. So I'm ready to lean into saying like, I'm not apologizing for with pop music. Just really, this is not the only period talking about like 68 through 79 or 76, whatever we want to say, that great pop records were being made. Absolutely not, yeah. There's streaks in the 80s and the 90s and the 2000s that are.

But it's the best period. Well, Peter's entering his Beato era. Well, and I also think it's just like, it's, to me, it's the top period, I believe, for jazz influence and navigation of pop music. Well, that makes total sense. Because if we think about sort of the, you know, people talk about the golden age of straight ahead jazz at least, right? We're talking about the late 50s, early 60s. And so all of these artists in the early 70s were kids in the late 50s,

early 60s, and now are old enough to start making music in their 20s here in the 70s, like Stevie, like Steely Dan, like those kinds of bands that we love and admire. Like Marvin Gay, you know, who was obviously making music in the 60s, but it was still very, very young, comes into his own. Super influenced primarily by jazz singer. Nat King Cole, Ella Fitzgerald. But you're absolutely right. Even someone like Michael Jackson,

who started his career in the early 70s as a child, is starting to make jazz influence stuff by the late 70s. Yeah, and so the early 70s may not have been the greatest period for straight ahead jazz. A lot of folks would say, although I would contend that there was some great things happening, but they're more on the jazz, what would be considered jazz fusion side perhaps,

talking about Return to Forever, CTI, Freddie Hunt, Hubbard. Oh, yeah. Head honors, weather report. But let's not forget, too. There's also some swinging straight ahead stuff. Yeah.

There's also some, like, amazing artist from the late 50s, 60s sort of height of the straight ahead era. You know, Hank Jones made some of my favorite Hank Jones albums in the 70s. Absolutely. And it was perhaps in his prime, although he never really left his prime, apparently.

A bunch of people debut in the 70s. That's right. It was, you know what it was, man, in the 70s? It was kind of a weird time technologically for acoustic instruments. I thought you could say, you know what I was the drugs were so darn good back then. That too, that too. The technology had a huge impact.

And also there was a real rub between popular music and straight-ahead jazz in the 70s specifically that I think would take a little bit of a turn with the Young Lions era. And now we're in a whole crazy new era with all that. And I think for pop music during this period, there's a through line that was already happening with real drums. And for folks don't know what I'm talking about, it's exactly what you think. is a drum set a drummer playing the drums and stevie wonder by the way is playing drums on every single track like so you would go and you would prompt some kind of AI to say like make a drum sound like this right stevie yeah exactly well but even before like when we look at program drums

which may have started not this early but like might have started in the 70s uh like later 70s but like really that heyday to be a little bit rough with the figures and sloppy the 80s like the craft work kind of like yes program drums yeah and so look steve's you know stevees record you know, well, harder than July, I think it was maybe some still. But I mean, like, Musicquarium on, the original stuff, part-time lover, all that. Like, Stevie was very much into program drums. That became the sound of pop and certainly R&B, yeah, in the 80s. Because, yeah, Stevie was always on the technological bleeding edge.

But I think that that affected the music in a way that in some ways, like really is kind of soulful pop music, if you want to call that. You know, like Michael Jackson, Steve, who just dominated, obviously, the 80s and stuff. that, you know, he was still holding on to a lot of real drums. So there was some program stuff, but the real drums were there. Once that got pulled out of the music, so now we're getting into like the 90s and stuff or like the late 80s, I really think that that had such an effect on the soul of the music that it wasn't until like it became, we were able to harness that technology, the drummers and the programmers and the producers.

You know, we talk about Dilla and the influence, you know, Jay Dilla, later on, like, where now you're trying to humanize program drums, right? Wabi-sabi, which we're going to get to later. Good, good, good. All right, this record comes out on August 3rd, 973. Let's check out a little bit of the first track. And, like, what an innovation and a crazy place this record starts at. Incredible opening.

Yeah. Break right here. She's a girl in a dream. Oh, about that. She's a four-eyed cartoon monster on a TV screen. She takes another puff and says it's a crazy scene. that bread is green Bad, okay, so much going on here.

What a great start to a record. We've mentioned before like sort of the genre of Stevie Wonder and how he's created several little stuff genres. This might be the first like psychedelic soul track that there ever was. Yeah, I mean, incredible. And really a lot of jazz on.

Like, so the way it starts here, like with that bass line. It's not quite... It's almost like a reverse swing pattern, though. bitch Oh yeah for sure Like it's got that swing feel right You know you've got like parliament

Funkadelic Psychedelic Funk or whatever But this is really like There's no other music Kind of like this Yep That has the jazz influence

Like it has Yep It's amazing Even those background vocals And it's a real Like this is all A minor here But all these cores I'm too high

Some really weird Complicate stuff Floating on top And it all And it all, and look, the lyrics is all about, you know, this is about drugs. This is about like, it's a really interesting story from beginning and then. I was like diving back in, like it's got such a story arc to the way he puts it together. But the way that the music matches, the way the grooves, the way everything's a little bit

off-kilter until it gets to the end where it gets very off-kilter, which I don't know. I'm a don't say no guy generally, but it's like that's very much about your high, you're too high, all these kind of things. Just, you know, listen to Stevie kids. be careful out there. That's right. That's right. And then check this out too.

Like, this record starts with a huge pattern interrupter, which is kind of a weird thing because it's not like, the rest of the record is not necessarily like this track. This is just the beginning of a story that's being told

by this record. Yeah. But to start off this kind of potentially off kilter. Well, think about how the previous album starts. Right? Think about how Talking Book starts. Yeah.

It starts with, You are the Sunshine of My Life. Yeah, it's like a warm hug, one of his biggest hits, It's one of the most welcoming cross-genre songs, right? Absolutely. And I'm trying to think of like how does... Talking Book ends with...

If I'm not mistaken. Hold on. I'm looking it up now. I'm trying to remember. It's the... I believe when I fall in love with you, I will be forever. It's like this big... It's a build-up. It's a build-up.

It's a big pop ballad at the end. Yeah. And he's going to start this second... The next, the subsequent record... Yeah. with this crazy psychedelic jazz soul weird, like chords. It's really cool, actually. Yeah, talking about it too hot.

And I mean, pattern interruptor, the lyrics are crazy. And the pattern, that's one, two, three, and then he goes, he's crazy triads, chromatic. It's like some Lambert Hendrickson rock suit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then back, one, two, this time, it was three last time. Now we're jumping. And then this is different.

It's a little bit different. It's already off kilter than the first time. I'm too high. And this is whole tone. Break it down a little bit for the book. So what do you mean by whole tone and what are these chords? Okay, so the stuff at the beginning, these triads. So he's taking something.

A triad is like the most basic chord you can make. Yeah, you're at home. It's like everybody knows this major triad, minor triad. So he's taking this triad and then he's moving them chromatically. So it has this very like, whoa, like roller coaster kind of a feel. But he's doing it with this kind of jazzy swing feel. It's a syncopation. And then sometimes he goes like, he goes up the second time,

but it's very subtle the way he changes it. And, you know, in the day and age of today, everything would be like exactly the same. And you definitely wouldn't start something with three times. So before that, before we even gets to the triads, and then I'll show you the whole tone thing in a second. this is pretty like, you know, you're grooving over minor. Yeah.

So like that should feel pretty settled, right? So you got like, you know, A minor. But the fact that he does it three times is weird because you would expect it to be two or four times. So he's already kind of setting things up. But that's minor. And then you got triads moving chromatically. And then you've got the rhythm, the hi-hat.

And then back here. And now it's just two times. It's one less. Same chromatic thing. And then here comes the whole tone part. I'm too high, too high. I've literally to the sky. You'll touch the sky.

So it's all over this E panel. It's dominant 7, 13 quits, just moving down at whole tones. So whole tones is this. Again, another real spacey. It's a druggie sound, right? It's a druggy sound. Like if the chromatic thing is very,

like, I'm falling through space, the whole tone is like, the world is expanding a little bit. Yeah, yeah. And look, Stevie's not the first one to use all these things. But to put them together like this at the beginning of an album. Of a pop album. That you think is going to be a hit record, which it turns out it is.

It is. Yeah. It's just genius. I think what pulls, to me, on this whole record, like Stevie's singing, the writing is all great. But to me, his drumming is like the glue. And then we're going to talk about the bass playing, too, because that's incredible. I have a lot to talk about with the bass playing and the drumming. But I'm glad you're already mentioning this concept of, like, things aren't very cookie cutter on this album. Right?

So, like, even just, you know, even just. the fact that he's playing all these instruments. Like on most of the album, he's playing every single instrument, including the bass and the drums, which is so rare for an album this big that someone who's not a professional studio bass player and drummer. I don't think people realize, like, how weird that is. Right.

That it wouldn't be, on this level, like some real pros who come in and nail it and play the same thing, you know, like a clock. Right. Which is what these incredible studio musicians can do so well. But that's what makes this album super special. is that like it's never the same thing twice. There's mistakes left in mistakes in many quotes.

There's no such things, mistakes, but it's not perfect. Variations. There's variations. Yeah, it's not perfect. Absolutely. And it's an incredible... High Brown, we're going to check that out. That bad boy speeds up quite a few clicks from beginning to end.

But nobody gives a shit because it sounds awesome. It feels incredible. And it's really like, it's really inspiring for me as a musician to be like, man, why do I obsess about trying to play things perfectly or make sure that everything It's just, you know, this perfect thing. My favorite music, all of my favorite music has these imperfections and I'm baked into it because I get to hear the human that is Stevie and you feel taken care of that actually someone is okay with their own imperfections in their art.

It makes the art incredible. Yeah. Well, it's almost like, you know, we talk about and I want to get into this, I know it's controversial. Is this a perfect album? We're always, you know, flirting with that concept. But if... You're always living that concept.

I don't believe there's... Maybe I'm going to put that out there. I don't think there's such a thing. But I mean, if nothing else, like, say for this track. And this definitely isn't, by the way. Well, but if we say this track, is this a perfect track, what you were just talking about, I think it's a matter of like, well, if you're saying that there's imperfections and it's not perfect, then how, like, when you take a willingness for it not to be cookie cutter, for it not to be perfect,

and you combine that with a confidence and a concept and then extreme crafting of how the things put together, I think that that can get it to a perfect track and possibly even to a perfect album. In fact, I don't think, I think if you try to make every, if everything comes out perfect, then the whole, the sum of the parts isn't perfect.

I don't think I'm ever going to get here with you. Just because it's a larger philosophical conversation about this perfect. Well, let's just say great. How about that? Great is fine. Yeah. Is this a great album?

Of course. It's one of the greatest albums. Yeah, but how do you make something great? It has to have that humanity. And I think it's that willingness for there to be imperfections combined with a confidence of delivery and a high level of like craftsmanship and execution. 100%.

So you were talking about Steve, we're going to talk about his drumming, of course, but the bass player, and you were saying, and I know some people are like, wait, he played bass. I mean, I'm sure he probably did, but he's playing a Moog base, which you're a very good, and you can even demonstrate some stuff if you want to hear,

but like you're really good at the Moog base. This isn't a Moog? Oh, that's true. So I'm going to play just some isolated on this. No, we did some on our Herbie Hancock, Maine Voyage show. We did our intros and outro's on... Don't compare that to this.

No, no. We did some intro and out shows on the Moog bass that we have here in the studio and the Yamaha Reeface. It's one of my favorite bass sounds. And I love, I love bass players. You know, there's my best friends of bass players. Some great bass players play Moog bass at the same, you know. Yeah, but I think there's something really special about it. Yeah.

Especially, like the monosynth bass is one of my favorite ever bass sounds. Yeah. So we're going to play a little, and then I want you to explain to folks what that is. This is Stevie just playing the Moog bass bass. Moog, going down low. But you hear how it's a little different each time? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But it's in the pocket, damn. Even without the drums. So, yeah, so the synth base is really interesting. So, you know, at the time, all of these synths are monophonic, at least the ones that he's using for the bass, they've got it set, which means that you can only play one note at a time, which means that if you strike,

like if you're hitting a note and you hit another note, Yeah. It like cuts the previous note off. You can't like make a chord. What happens if you play a triad? Yeah, just one note. It happens.

So when you hear like, anytime that he does, you hear this a lot on this album. So he'll be like, he'll go, he'll hold the note low. Yeah. And then hit it up high and there's glide that can happen on this too. Portimento. So you hear these like funky things that can happen. Yeah. And then sometimes he'll do like a.

Yeah. A very specific thing. Glistando. Yeah. because of, again, the monophonic. And even a run can be, sounds super, super clean

in this style. So this is just like a really simple and this is not as, not as nice as what Steve he's working with here, but you can still hear. They spend a lot of times on the sound, like,

yeah, but yeah, that's how he's getting those like really incredible, funky, like riffs that are between the bait, the root note of things.

Oh, so great. Spin this the other way. Yeah, I'm going to jump to maybe a part where he's getting into some of that, just looking at the,

waveform. This is just the bass. Yeah, you can hear the in the attack of things. Like he's slurring things, essentially. All that stuff, man, so good. And when you add in the drums, he's so fucking, and he's got the envelope filter on there that's

making it sort of sound like a wah kind of blat. And this is super melodic playing, right? Yeah, but he's like one of the greatest bass players of all time. I should stop talking Look at that This is that part where it's like

Yeah So so much great stuff on here So that's bass Then he's playing the drums Did a friend say The symbol stuff Come on Phil's

Keyboards Again and that drumming Not nearly as perfect As what a high level studio drummer Would do But it's so funky And I think that on I know

some of the ones on a talking book for sure, like he would lay down the drums first. So that's kind of crazy if you think about... Just with a tune, the form in his head. Yeah, so like he's... When you're tracking, it's like, you're playing all the instruments. Obviously, he has to do them one at the time.

So he's having to kind of like sing along and think about all these different sections. Now he wrote it, so I guess it's like, that's not hard for him. But it starts out. Oh, I don't know. That's pretty good studio drumming, actually. And then he's got to think about that.

That's like three times, you know, versus two times with the bass. And then the keyboard stuff, that's Fander Rhodes. So then we go, obviously the vocals is what everyone pays attention. She takes another puff and says it's a crazy scene. And this kind of... This swirling reverb. What do you call that? Phaser? I'm too high.

I'm too high. A slight phaser. Yeah, there's something on there. That's that whole tone we're talking about. Man, singing that so well in tune, it's super hard. I'm too high, yeah. So it kind of all ends up on this minor bluesy kind of a thing. But because of...

It's a very unusual way to get there. Too high, I'm too hard. I hope I never ever come down. But this is something, so the production on this album, Stevie Wonder, Malcolm Cecil and Robert Margileff, who worked on the first four records of the classic period. They worked really closely together at the record plan

and media sound in New York. They were really, I mean, not only with the synthesizer with the Moog, the Moog, the Moog, I sing it both ways. You know what? I'm just going to split the difference because I can never remember the correct way. Moog, Moog, we don't know.

Don't look at me blankly, sir. No, I forgot which way I say. But with that, and then the Tonto, which we're going to get into, we haven't heard that yet, the incredible multi-timbral, you know, thing that Cecil and Marguilef had developed that Stevie really brought to life during these sessions.

So just to say that, like, there was a lot that went into the production of this. So when you hear stuff like this... And the way it's bouncing around. She had a chance to make it big more than once a twice. As opposed to just, you know, flat. Like, that has a big part, like, when you start adding in. But no dice. The other stuff.

It sounds weird when it's on its own. And it goes to that great segue section. So that's a good first track. I believe it is, I believe now I remember. I believe it is Moog because I believe... How we're going to remember that? Bob Moog. That's the way he's, you know, a guy who invented it.

I know. I can ask my dad. My dad knew Bob a little bit at University of Pennsylvania back in the music school around the same time. But I would say in anybody's defense who says Moog, it's literally like phonetically two O's right next to each other. It's hard not to see it and say. anything but Moog. So at the end of this, we're going to come back to that

later in our categories at the end of the track. So there's some fun stuff. What other tracks you got lined up for us? Well, I got visions. Sumi, I love visions. Title track. Title track, right.

And before we get into it, I just want us to hear, it's always fun to hear the artists talking about this. The lyrics on this album, I think, are as good as it gets for Stevie. And that's saying a lot because, like, he was a real lyricist.

He wrote the lyrics for almost all of his songs, for many of them. them. And, you know, I think on this record, he really had stuff dialed in in such a varied way, and there's such a part of the story. There, in a lot of ways, the easiest part for the listener. You know, we're talking about whole tones. None of that actually really matters, hearing the words, but how that relates to the music and the production and how Stevie played the stuff and presented it. But we have this wonderful little thing. We can just listen to a little bit of it, of Stevie,

um, just talking about, uh, and reciting actually some of the lyrics to visions before we You know, lately he's been getting into writing very heavily. I just did a thing that's going to be in the album, which will probably be the title tune. The album is going to be called Inner Visions. And the song is Visions. And one of the lines of the song is people hand in hand, have I lived to see a milk and honey land?

What hates a dream and love forever stands? Or is this a vision in my mind? says the law was never passed but somehow all men feel that truly free at last have we really gone this far through space and time or is this a vision in my mind and says I'm not one who make the least you really get a feel for you know Stevie

interacting and reciting this as poetry really you know as just the lyrics it's beautiful yeah it's beautiful even on its own separate from the music but I think it's so insightful you know And then as we go in and listen to it, this beautiful intro, with the music, you know, kind of where he's coming from. And this is Malcolm Cecil on the bass on. Michael Cecil, yeah, one of the producers and engineers on here play it.

He was originally a jazz bass player. So it's two guitars. Not Stevie. Yeah. This is the only time on the record, really, except for some background vocals, that it's not Stevie. Dean Parks and David Walker on guitars. People hand in hand.

Second, I live to see the mirror hates a dream of a stand. Is this a vision in my mind? The laws never passed. It's amazing to be like... The bridge here is classic scene. I know the leaves are green. No, just what I say is not yesterday. Composition is written in the, oh look, we can sit here, listen all day, right?

Until the bigwigs from Universal come after us. But the idea of like, this song is written in the traditional ABA Great American song, what kind of a form? You know, that's why I said when we go to the bridge. And it's such a story, it's such a journey. And, you know, Stevie, I think, you know, he's known for his incredible intonation, which is just singing in tune. But doing it while singing a lot of,

of really challenging things, obviously without autotune, without like a lot of overdubs and all these kind of things. But also I think his diction, like the clarity of the words, not only the ideas, but the delivery of it, is pretty stunning. Yeah, we talked about this on Talking Book about how he sometimes gets overlooked, I think especially from the more of the music nerd side of things like people like us, for what an incredible vocalist he is just on that front. If he didn't write anything, if he didn't play anything,

if he was just a singer singing someone else's songs, he would still be one of the goats. Like, he's still so incredible on that instrument. And then you mix in this, I mean, this is the second song on the album, right? This is the title track. And listen to all of the harmonic textures that we've already had. Like, all of these things that you would never see on anyone else's album, especially someone who's making, like, the highest level,

Grammy Award winning, billboard top 10, like, all of this stuff. like you're not hearing this on anybody, but you're handling like one, four, five ones. Right. Like chord progressions. These chords that Stevie Wonder is, and frankly, like, a little bit more sophisticated

than even the jazz stuff. I know. That's happening around this time, too. Like, it's really something. Like, I mean, it's like you could, if you turn this into a Herbie Hancock album, it wouldn't be out of the question. Right.

It wouldn't seem weird, you know? Well, this track, so Headhunters came out in 73, too, I believe. And, like, this track is more jazz than anything on Headhunter. Well, I can't say that. It's Herbie Hancock. But you know what I'm saying?

But just the composition is. It's a cousin. It's a first cousin of that. Yeah. And the fact that, I mean, what a great time when you could have something like this. This is a second track. And, like, young folks, maybe don't realize

because it's all about, like, individual tracks. But, like, it mattered what you started the record with and what came next. Like, that could make or break things. So, like, this was a lot of a lot of Cajontes. In the era of the album, which is this is sort of the golden era of the album of the LP. Oh, so thank you. I love that.

This is the golden era of the album. It really is. It's so, you're absolutely right track order and what starts aside really, really matters. But I mean, this is like so introspect. This is very fulfilling this first finale material. This is so introspective. It's so, like the lyrics are

a little bit cryptic, but he's delivering them very clearly. It's very, like, as you say, harmonically is very challenging. Beautiful. I think the melody on this is what really holds it together in a lot of Stevie's stuff, like where you can make it

this very satisfying thing, even if you're kind of like, what the heck's going on, the melodic movement of it. The harmonic movement's very satisfying, but pretty complex, long song form. Just incredible stuff.

Absolutely. So that takes us to track number three. This is probably the most, you know, recognized, beloved. This was the second hit. Certainly his most socially conscious of the hits, specifically. And this is a...

Oh. So undeniably. And that's just bass drum. For what that ain't so pretty. No other drums. Storytelling. To keep him strong. Blues to.

Four. Just enough. Just enough for the city. Is that grooving? Is that grooving? That, again, the synth base. Oh, so good. Oh.

Oh. Oh. Oh. He's used of, like, space in between. Oh. The use of, like, space in between. I was about to pull it down. You don't want me to.

Don't make it stop. Second verse. Don't feel every one, its own masterpiece. A little counter melody. On the Tonto? I think it's on that. All right. Okay.

We'll get breaking anything down. But the lyrics, too. were so, this might be his like best lyrical song ever. Just he's so subtle. It's not, it's an incredible story, obviously like a social message, but he's like painting

pretty rich characters. Yes. You know, like the lyrics. Verse by verse. Like the, her brother's smart. He's got more sense than many his patience long, but soon he won't have any. Like those two lines tell a story of

like this kid's life. Yeah. You know what I mean? And I was going to say the lines right after that are some of my favorite, too. Right after what you just said, to find a job is like a haystack needle. Yeah. Which is so great. Like we talk about imperfection.

It's supposed to be needle in the haystack. Right, right, right. But like, oh, it's such a different way of saying it. To find a job is like a haystack needle. Because where he lives, they don't use colored people. Living just, I mean, and by the time you're starting from a boy is born in a hard time, Mississippi, like the music is started to move up. There's this blues sensibility.

And when we talk about the blues, So we got... He's moving between these sounds. It's G-flat. Right? And that's major, and that's minor. And it's both of them. So you've got that major and minor

happening at the same time, and that permeates this whole thing, except for some of the little segue sections, which are kind of like, you know, the too high stuff coming back in. And then you've got the lyrics on top of it, and that's before we even get to the whole skit in the middle. I mean, even the hook of the lyrics,

like live in just enough for the city. Yeah. Tells a story of like, you know, like this... It's really, really smart. These lyrics are very, very smart. Which, you know, sometimes I think Stevie doesn't reach this peak of his lyrics. Like I just call this to say I love you.

Don't knock, I just call this album. That's a masterpiece. He says that's his greatest song. He might be right. That's one of my favorites. But, no, but this is like such a high level. Yeah. It's storytelling.

It's public. political. But it's like writing the greatest op-ed in the New York Times, but you're putting it to music and it actually tells even more without being like direct. The skin in the middle, you know, which is heartbreaking. And I mean, also this is 1973. I mean, it paints the picture, you know, even if you haven't been there, like what he's talking about. And it's not like, it's a journey because that the whole thing of a boy is born and hard time.

Like that sets you up for one thing. But they're going from that to New York City to the jail cell, sell everything. But on the musical side, like the beginning of this, like to me, the other great thing about this, this song should have been first on the record. I mean, actually, no, I don't think so, but I'm saying most people would say that. Most people would put this first because it feels good. Yeah, yeah. So we've got. You mean it's not a series of chromatic and whole tone.

Yeah. I mean, it's like, this is introductory, right? And he comes in vocally pretty soon to the beginning. I mean, on too high. A boy's born in heart I miss. Like this would be the beginning of telling the whole story But I love where it's placed on the record third after visions Because like now you've got to this

This is really like the Magnus opus of Oh, I like that term I don't even know what it means I read it Magnum opus. It's not Magnus. Isn't Magnus even bigger? Magnus opus is a chess player That's what I mean. This is like the may He's the Magnus Opus of soul music All right. Okay, so when we talk about

I know you love the bass The Moog and we've got some fun stuff already at the beginning here This is just the bass And some kick drum too A little feathering maybe? Oh, there it. There it comes in. Okay.

So that's interesting. It doesn't come in at the beginning. It's just the attack. Yeah. Man, that's like the perfect moog-moog-mogue bass sound. Mook-moog. M-moke. Here comes the bass drum.

Our separator might be messing it up a little bit. But you feel it, right? It's like, it's the heartbeat, right? And then you got... His parents give... Oh, he's already in. ...to keep him love and affection to keep him strong.

Moving in the right direction. Living just in... Just enough for the city. Okay, I can't tell you like how thrilling every one of his drum feels. Are we going to break these? We're going to make a podcast just about Stevie because it's like, it's this combination of like expected and like what and like grooving and sloppy and perfect and imperfect. It's, I don't know how he does this, you know.

And I wouldn't be surprised if this was one take that he did this And he had to lay all this down with just the drums Where he's imagining the other things That he's going to do He's not like riding off the energy of the bass or whatever It's all in his imagination But he's going from justice It's just a

It's just instant groove And you can bet He barely makes a dollar His mother goes scrub the floors for many And they added the roads And then again Just all the little vocal details

That are happening in there Every phrase has some unique turn to it Every, you know Every tenth word has some kind of expression put on it Yeah That is telling the story Without even having to understand what the lyrics mean, you get it Like, man, he just did exactly, check this out

Exactly what you're talking about Check the way he ends his phrase for the city I mean, yeah, like it's, it's so beautifully in the moment. He's letting things happen. He's letting the music come to him. He's letting the spirit flow through.

Whatever it is, you want to put on that. I mean, it's so seamless in everything he does from the, literally the ground up, right? The kick drum and the bass all the way up to the soaring vocals. It's the root to the tutor. Yeah, I mean. The outhouse to the top floor. I mean, he's just covering it like,

and he's got it all like, of mapped out what's needed. Yeah. And then these background vocals are Stevie, I believe. For the segue. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Oh, here's another great feel coming up.

Oh. Why are I love those so much? So good, man. Oh, pecker. Men. Well, that's what I'm saying. All these little stuff that, like, I don't think studio musicians would necessarily do without direction from Stevie. And it's just him doing it.

It's him playing. And being playful are so, so I know on proper authority, this is no secret. His drummer was very influenced in this period from Zigaboo. Ziggibu molest from the meters. Stevie was going down to New Orleans and met them by this point. And we're definitely checking out. style you hear it. To find a jump

is like a hasteagnet needle. Like a hasteag needle. What the hell is a hasteag needle? Yeah. So the whole thing is just, yeah. I mean, this song's been broken down and been loved a lot. And then he gets to the skit. Do we want to, I mean, let's kind of move on.

Like, you can go in and check that out. One thing interesting about this played on the radio, they used to always cut that off. They did cut the skit out? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that was just like, I think the single maybe didn't have it.

I'm not sure. That was really. But you got all these great sections where you just kind of We got to explore that here. So we're talking about... Yeah. I mean, it's a huge advantage, Steve has. Oh, you mean, to be like, there's six of me?

Yeah, exactly. What is it from the social network? Six foot three, 250 pounds, and there's two of me. There's two of me. Steve's like, I'm a genius vocalist, an incredible harmonist, and there's six of me. And I can back myself. Okay, so this is a great skit super deep and meaningful, like very unusual to be put on a record, I think, during this time or at any time to have so much space in the middle. Well, we're going to check out just a little bit how we get into that.

With the sound of the city, I think that's his brother. He's one of the characters of voices and Stevie's as well. New York, just like I pictured it. I say that every time I get out of subway. Never thanks. and everything. That's a classic. But jumping back, of course, they come back in, and I love the way this ends.

It kind of reminds me, well, we talked about it on a record last season, I believe it was DeAngelo's untitled. It kind of ends really big. They don't go do it. And then it goes right into, oh, I got to switch over by the thing here. But it's a great segue. Yeah, there we. The Golden Lady is.

Incredible. It's very what's going on. Yeah. This is Motown flavor right here. Peter, let's... And they go these tracks on the LPA is straight. Golden Light is incredible. Harmonically rich as well.

Peter, let's get into some Desert Island tracks. So your Desert Island track, I believe, is maybe everybody's Desert Island track on this album. Certainly what people think of when they think of... One of the probably top five tracks they think of when they think of Stevie Wonder. Yeah, higher ground. And, I mean, essentially, I thought you were going to say, Limford City.

Like, I always feel like that's the one that people think about with this record, but... I think higher ground and don't you worry about a thing, which is my Desert Island track. I think those are the two that have like, especially in popular culture, have like seeped through enough where it's like, you know, higher grounds covered by the red hot chili peppers. Don't you worry about a thing? Was on like Sing 2 or something. Right. You know what I'm saying? Right.

Okay, so let's check out a little bit of higher ground. It's unbelievable. This is one of the greatest shuffles. It's not quite as good as the flute with Mac shuffle. I mean, almost okay. Man, the fills on this again. People.

And the shuffles. Talk about this instrument on the Chalking Book, right? On maybe your baby and superstition. This is the clavinet, right? Which is like a stringed instrument. It's like somewhat of a cousin to like a harpsichord. Right. And then he's got this wah pedal effect on it.

This auto wah effect on it. Oh, I see what you're doing. This little envelope. filter and it really, it sounds like it could be a guitar or a synthesizer, but it's actually like a little eraser head hitting a string right on each key. Yeah, this is just the clap. I think it's two on it, right? Yeah, at least. Yeah. But see if you wanted to master the clabinet. Yeah. It's got that percussive. It's, I mean, a lot of people think it's guitar. So, and then he's, Again, like there's, it's hard to like understate the amount of blues playing on this record and it being, which is such a shocking thing for being such a popular record.

It's not shocking. It's just I don't think people, people will be like, ah, it sounds jazz. And there's definitely obvious jazz influences. But I think in terms of like the foundation. Blues is all over. The blues, like, yeah. So what we've got here is E-flap minor. And by blues, it's this sound.

Well, I mean, even just the groove itself, right? So this like Chicago shuffle. And the shuffle. And then the... Oh, I'm sorry, you mean this? Like... Oh, we're not there yet. There.

Yeah. And this is a different sound on the moug-mogue. But it's that same, like you get the portamental thing. Yeah. Again, because you can only play one note at a time, so it cuts it off. So this is already grooving, right? I would say so. What about that?

Uh. The hump. You got the tambourine going on two and four. Up to the two, four, and then Stevie, down to the dominant seven. That's all Stevie. So when we talk about like, and then getting to the four and then down to the dominant seventh

and then back to the one. I mean, seriously, you put buddy guy over this? You know what I mean? Totally. You know what he's varying up the hi-hat too? I think having a through play drum track, that's underrated. I mean, I know in jazz we do it.

all the time, but in pop music. Because you have a chance to do something different every time. It's really, really, really good. And then there, it's such a cool. It's minor pentatonic. But it always has that blues thing in it, too. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So my Desert Island track

is, don't you worry about a thing. Ever heard of it? Yeah. I think it's... First of all, it's hilarious. Yeah. This is a little like trying to pick up this girl with his fake Spanish accent. There's a lot of confidence in it though. Well, you have to, and it's taken the language.

Please, Mama. Well, like, I don't understand how you can, because I mean, I'm playing everything on here on Paris, Peru, you know, I mean, Iraq, Iran, you know, I speak very, very fluent Spanish. Allot-Tobien Chevre. Yes, yeah. Yeah. Chevehry.

Is that my mama? Is that my mama? like a implied sort of fake monsoongo happening. Right. Oh, wait, jumps on that melody. Okay, so keep you going. Yeah, keep going. I got it, I got you.

Okay. Don't you worry about a thing. Okay, can we harmony nerd out for just a second? Please, please, I've been waiting to. So the changes here on this. So there's... Tell them what changes are. So the chord...

It's the harmony, right? The chord changes, the harmony. So what is so amazing about this? This is what, he's like 23 tier or 22 or something? Yeah. Like, it's so sophisticated. Like, this is something that Barry... This is the 16th record, though.

Yeah, it's true. This is like a concept that another Detroit pianist, Barry Harris might teach, right? The things that are... The little details harmonically that are happening here... Thank you. Which makes Stevie Wonder so sophisticated, right? So you have this E flat minor to this, like, you know, B flat 7, sharp 5, whatever it is. And then the E flat 7...

Then the 4. Now, this is the Stevie Wonder. change here, like down a whole step to 5 to B. But then there's this chord here. Yeah. Right? So this is in like an E7. It's a half step above where we started.

Yeah. Right? So that happens the first time. So the first time you hear the second time, it does it again. It goes back to the tonic. To the E7 again. Now this time it's functioning as a back door.

Stevie loves the backdoor. It's a backdoor. It's a backdoor too. So the first time it was like a tritone sub to E flat. Now it's a back door to G flat, which is all in this, this is very technical, but the Barry Harris family,

the things that like nerdy jazz is just like geek out about. This is a pop hit. This is again on Sing 2 soundtrack or whatever. Start out with a bunch of random Spanish-esque stuff. You know, it's like... Right. But instead of like a regular, also just another nerdy thing,

instead of like a regular back door where it would be like B minor E7. Yeah. It's B major 7. Yeah. This bright sound. And then he does it again here. Don't you worry about it.

Mama. This is another 2.5, but it's a two major seven. Oh. Right? It's like, so he goes down to this A-flip. Major, like the little Easter eggs for, like, music nerds are all over the place in that. But especially... And my music nerds, we mean every human on the planet, at least for hearing it.

You know what I mean? The thing is, too, is if you don't know anything about music, you just love, like, the voice leading is so crisp. It just sounds incredible. But if you are into some of these little dots and loops of the details of how these things are made, it's really sophisticated and almost old-fashioned. Like, it's something- There's an inner logic to it that, like, goes back hundreds of years in a number of different cultures. 100%. Like, I mean, this is not like a, you know, he's inventing music language.

It's just so rare that someone can nail it on a pop album this effortlessly. Yeah, and he does it like so perfectly and beautifully. And this was the second of last track on the second side, but it was this was the third single. Like this was not just some like hidden jazz track. It's a huge hit. This was not like contusion on the song of the key of life where it's like all instrumental.

It's almost like, I mean, sometimes Stevie can pull out these like sophisticated harmony things where you're like, are you like channeling Gershwin 2 or something all of a sudden? Right. He has like the knowledge of all music somehow at his hands, at his pen and it comes out in these really interesting ways. I mean, and then we're now just coming off of higher ground. Yeah.

Which has this incredible, like, authentic shuffle feel, right? Like, to this, which is like tongue and cheek and funny. Well, there's a couple tunes in between. No, no, but I'm saying what we're talking about. But, like, I don't know. To me, this is what makes this album and all of Steve E Wonders work incredible to listen to and just rewarding again and again and again, listen after listen. Decade after decade is because there's, you know,

I just realized this week. with this tune. I just was like, man, that's incredible. Like the little things he's saying in there with these little chords and these little melodies that he puts in, not to mention the textures, the lyrics, the inflections, really, really special.

It's great. And the way you described is great. And I always like to think about it when it's like harmony is such a emotional trigger for humans. And so, like, as songwriter, as songwriters, we're supposed to put that together, obviously with the lyrics, with the melody,

with the groove. And so, like, Stevie's doing all this and actually playing all this and crafting it, But I think the harmony is kind of like, especially on tunes like this is the thing that makes it happen. You know what I mean? There's always like,

it's always like a little bit of different competing different facets and knowing when to push the harmony level up and stuff. Yeah. And it's really like, you know, like what you're talking about is the harmonic underpinnings, the structure, the architecture of what the tune is. And I think it is, it's just like if you see the, you know,

the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco, like anybody can look at the, that and be like, you've seen pictures of it, but if you actually go see it, and if you run across it or walk across it, you're like, wow. And, like, you can just sort of bask in the glory of that. Yeah. But an engineer is going to be, like, measure and be like, oh, my gosh, the distance between the span is two to three and all that kind of stuff.

Yeah, with both, like, higher ground, don't you worry about a thing? It's like, you know, I was listening to this in the car. Like, you know, Heather McCorkal, loved, my wife, loved this song, has no idea what any of the harmony means. Doesn't care. No. But, like. But, like...

But you cares about how it feels. But this is what separates, I think, like, good artists from legendary artists, right? Is this level of detail. There's so much love in every chord and every bar and every voice lead. There's nothing's thrown away. There's nothing's thrown away. There's nothing spared. There's no fat to it.

It's just beautiful. That's why we call it a perfect album. Well, it's not that. But what about your apex moment, Peter? What are you got? Before we get to that, I wanted to, because I got this pulled up. You mentioned another version of this. Oh, boy.

Taking me back to eighth grade. Higher ground. This is a cover of higher ground. There was been an entry point for a lot of folks to Stevie actually. I prefer their cover of Love Roller Coaster, if I'm being honest. Red Hot Chili Peppers. But I mean, they're kind of like, this is not an easy to cover. And they're not achieving what Stevie did.

I think when I was in eighth grade, this was my introduction to like Stevie Wonder. It's like, wait, does Stevie Wonder cool? Because he was just a big guy making pop music when I grew up. Yeah. But, yeah, like, you know, my dad was like, heard this. and said, you should probably check out the original. Right. You know what I mean?

It's way better. Yeah, that's good. But actually, that's not bad. Yeah. The Chili Pepper's version? Like, they found something that, probably the one Stevie tune that could kind of work for their authentic sound somewhat, you know,

so that's cool. Okay, so Desertine tracks for me is, we did that already, right? High ground, we did this. Okay, let's go to Apex Moments. And, boom, boom, boom. Oh, yeah. Okay, so this is too high.

which we listen to the first track of course all this great stuff I kind of want to jump ahead a little bit towards the end breakdown of this it's already in a great place the base they're going crazy it's like built up right and then we got this final statement of the way it falls apart so like comes back more cool first time it's ever gone to that it's the first time it's ever gone Get the fuck out of it. To me, that's the APEC. And you're so rewarded if you listen to this whole tune

once you get there. The way it ends after that is really cool too. It's kind of weird. The whole thing is weird, man. I love that. It's a great Apex moment. My Apex moment is,

it's about if you can cue up a minute and 39 into don't you worry about a thing. So he spends the first two minutes of this song vocally in a fairly low mid range in his voice. And the first time he takes it up,

yeah, is so magical. Like, it just grabs your attention and you're like, oh, this is a banger. Yeah. So he's got this chromatic thing. Ooh, that high. Which internet of itself is unique. Yeah.

He's kind of sliding into that. It'll vary blues. Back into the chorus. That one fair, me. Yeah, you have like 30 moments. The performance is off the charts. Good. Peter, what's your bespoke playlist for this?

What do you think? Well, I'm going to go really basic because I know you got something cool, so I'm going to hook you up. This is Stevie's classic run. You know, like that playlist of those five albums in those five years is, I mean, that's a deep, deep, deep playlist.

Like, it's a world of music. It's timeless. It's timeless. And, I mean, there's a whole music education in there. There's a whole, like, kind of political, like, telling you about the times, the trajectory. of those five years.

And I was going to say you could do worse. I don't think you could do better in terms of a one artist playlist specific to a certain period. I don't think there's any... I mean, you could talk about like Beethoven or Miles Davis. I don't know if anybody's had a run like this, though.

Yeah, I mean, this is up there. There's nobody above it, in my opinion. I have, for my bespoke playlist, I have Wabi Sabi Wiggle. Now listen. Wait, is that based upon the dance that I was doing the other day at the club when I met you?

So the Wabi Sabi Sabi is a classical Japanese concept for art where you leave in the imperfections. And the wiggle is just because this makes me want to wiggle for sure, the whole album. But this is like, this is what I'm saying, man, is like, for me, what's so touching, listening to this for the one millionth time this week in preparation for this episode, is just all of the tiny imperfections, the fact that he doesn't do the same thing, you know, more than two times in a row that he's always changing up. He's playful through the whole thing on every single instrument because it's him.

And the fact that he leaves in this, you know, concept. even of just being true to what he wants to do in the moment and letting the song play itself out without trying to, again, studio musician out. That there's anything wrong with the studio musician vibe and that that has a place, but something really magical when a genius gets to just do his thing for everything. It's really, really awesome. Yeah, and I think that that's a great title.

I think what you just said about, you know, never doing something the same, like when the verse comes around and when the chorus or whatever, like the connective tissue that he had, like he's not just changing it up and then it becomes like random or hard to follow. It's like, what is he changing? So he's playing like these great fills

like on Living for the City at the same place in terms of like every eight bars or sometimes every 16th, but he's changing up how he's doing it. He's still grooving into the one. So it's like he has this great ability to, as you say, you know, to change it up. But there's never, it's never a lack of cohesion.

You know, quite the opposite. It's like very, very, I mean, on that whole vocal section, it goes on for another minute after that on, don't you worry about it. Yeah. Where he's still like changing things up, but the essence, because of the harmony and the groove and everything that he has, holds it together and gives him that freedom to be confident and to soar up high and so, I don't know, hit it.

I'm going to go hit it again. It's such a contrast to, not to, again, Papa Beato out here, but it's such a contrast to how a lot of music is made in the modern era. Yeah, name names. With computers. Name names, sir. computers and Daws and things and people just have gotten a little too

clean, you know, like in general because you can. And listen, we all fall on the trap of it. If you ever made a record with with Pro Tools or whatever, it's so easy to just be like, can you just tune those vocals up? Are you saying that this is, are you saying that this record is better than anything to date that Taylor Swift has put out? Is that what you're trying to tell me?

I never say such a thing. I'm just checking. Okay, I like that though. Wabi-sabi-wibble. I was thought the wasabi was what I put on my sushi to make it spicy. that. Quibble bits. Quibble bits. Okay. This is going to kind of go against my thing of saying this might be a perfect album. I was going to say. I'm going to say, but we have to find something. Like, I don't find anything like sonically or with the order of the tunes or like, there's nothing about where I

could be like, I wish they, I wish the drums are allowed. I mean, everything to me, production-wise, vocally, harmonically, in terms of playing the instruments is fantastic. I mean, it could be done differently, but I couldn't be done any better. he's Mr. No at all. And I'm just going to play a little of this for those you that don't remember this. Like, this is just a song that I find myself sometimes skipping over. So does that make it a quibble bit? It's not a bad song.

I just feel like it's a... You know what it is? If everything else is 100, maybe this is the 98. I agree with you. You know what it is with this, in my opinion? Tell me. It is... He's done this vibe.

Better and before this, right? So if we go back to our talking book, yeah. album, again, the last track. Yeah, this is, I believe, when I fall in love, it will be forever. Well, this goes to the mountain top. This is unbelievable. And, you know, the pianos, and when the groove comes in,

it's a similar tempo and groove to these Mr. No-it-all. But it's just more effective. It is, this is more effective. But you know what it is, too? Like, every song can't be more effective. Every song doesn't need to go to the mountain top. You're right. So maybe this is not a quibble bit.

It's just, I always feel like if there's something that I, I mean, I'll listen to this whole record. I just did it. And I love where it's placed in here. It's so balanced. Totally. And hey, like, again, the,

back to he's Mr. No-It-all, for anybody else, killing. Yeah, incredible. And it's really great. Yeah, there's nothing. But it doesn't quite, I think there's a couple,

because I also think, and this is going to be controversial, and I might piss people off, but I think this too is not my faith. See, I love this song, actually. It's gorgeous. I know this is another one people skip over. It's beautiful.

It's composition is great. His performance is great. There's nothing wrong with it at all. All is fair in love. It sounds like it should be on a different album, though, to me. I don't know, man. It sounds like it should be on... Oh.

But this is the same song. Does this work better? Does this song? So this is all in love is fair. But this is not Stevie Wonder's version. See if you can recognize who this is. I know. Does this work better in this context?

I don't think it works better. I think it works well Violin sounded. French one? This must be... All is fair. Love's a crazy game. Some Babs right there.

Yeah. Some Barbara Streisand. I mean, this is another kind of really effective cover, I think. I think she had a hit off this, or at least a mic. That's really good, actually. Because they don't really change anything on it.

Yeah. And she doesn't try to sing like Stevie. She's definitely influenced a little bit. She does her own thing. She puts her own thing, and it works. So, like, that was really good choosing. I mean, a lot of Stevie's music, we talk about like almost being jazz standards in a way.

This is definitely one of those kind of things, I think. But these are hard songs to pull off singing. Yes. Because like you can't hide from Stevie's version of it. You know what? It's like, what are you going to do with it? But that's the thing. I think if... And I mean, on the second time, on the vert, like, he goes crazy on this.

It's unbelievable. It's amazing. I'm not... I have to caveat everything is... Everything's great. This is a little bit of a slow burn, too. It's a little slow burn, too. Yeah. Anyway. Okay. Go to small quibble a bit. hates all of the fair.

You can't say anything bad about anything. No, but I mean, look, we're trying to be honest here. Yeah. And look, when the bar is as high as Stevie sets it, what we're talking about is going from an A plus to maybe an A. Yeah. Not even an A minus, I wouldn't say. Like for he's Mr. No at all.

Peter, what do you got for the snobometer? Man, I want you to go first because I put nothing. I'm totally paralyzed on the cinematometer. So how snobby is this album? Is it one being it's not very snobby at all? It's very accessible to an average person who doesn't have to be a music geek or 10, it's extremely snobby. So I'm going to say one.

I'm going to say two. I think it's pretty accessible. I think higher ground is like incredible. Yeah, I think it's, I mean, there's a reason these things win for Grammy record album of the year. First R&B, right, did we talk about that at the beginning?

No, I don't think so. First R&B, black, soul record, whatever they were calling it then, to win album of the year, which is crazy, 1973. Yeah, it's fairly late for that shit down. Shout out recording academy.

Oh, sorry, I'm a member. Well, you're on my car. You should be the change you want to see in the world, Peter. Yeah, that's crazy. I wasn't a member in 73. I was two years old. But I would say one, but there's a good, there's a good argument to be made as a 10.

So I'm actually going to go with five, because that's the average. The argument is, on Talking Book, who are we hearing from that we're shouting the praises of this record and saying, you guys are wrong, talking book is not Stevie's greatest, or why didn't you cover InterVisions first?

Snobbs. Yeah, I know. Stevie snobs, music snobs. So that would make it a 10, but I thought, as you said, it's totally accessible to the 5. We average. I thought you said 1. Well, it's both a 1 and a 10.

What's the average of 1 and 10? It's crazy. 10 divided by 2. Snobometer is officially broken. Is it better than Kind of Blue? It's better than Miles Davis's classic Kind of Blue. Okay, I'm going to go first

because I think yours is even more controversial. Okay. I'm going to say equal. No, I haven't said that a lot. Every Snombometer is 5, And every KOV is equal. No, that's not true. I've said close before.

I've only a case. The reason is that I don't think it's better than, but it's definitely in that same top tier. Like, I think this is S tier. S tier, for sure. They're both S tier. Yeah, we're looking at kind of blue as S tier. And this, I mean, within S tier,

it's fruitless to try to be like who's higher. I think I prefer every Stevie Wonder album in this era to Kind of Blue, if I'm being honest. I think, interesting. This one may be the only one that I would put in that I think Talking Book is first of all, I think there are two... Because if every Stevie album's S tier, then none of them are... That's not true. Okay. Well, from this period. From this period, though.

There are, like, I think... I think Talking Book for sure. Talking Book, this... And as Long as Key Life is S tier, of course. As maybe what is T tier. I don't know. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, okay, so that's good. So you're yes, it's better than K-O-B and I'm equal. What about Akutramant's? How's the cover? I mean, I'm going nine because I think it's incredible upon looking at...

at it again, I'm like, wow, there's some cool stuff happening. But I never loved the cover. Like when I was younger and first had this, there was something that was always a little bit, not off-putting, but just, it wasn't one where I was like, oh my God, this, I mean, the inside, I apologize, I forgot to bring my copy today. But it's great.

But, I mean, 9 is supposed to be, like 10 is supposed to be only for, so you're saying that there's never been an album cover greater than this one. Well, they don't even know what my rating is yet. Well, I'm reading it right here. Tell them. It's a 10. So you're saying this is the greatest ever. I'm saying it's at the top of the heap, yes. Well, I'm saying that's still top of the heap.

Okay. It's like, you know, when they do the diving competition? It's just below, but yeah, yeah, yeah. And then everyone's like 10, 10, 10. But then someone comes and does a better dive, and they get a 10, 10, 10. It's like the 10 is supposed to be the greatest, supposed to be reserved for literally the greatest ever. As someone who's quick to call things perfect, you're not going 10.

That's another thing on this album. That's what I'm saying. I don't think it's a perfect album. It's not. There's no such thing. It's a great album. But there's no such thing as a perfect. There is.

Well, according to you, it's 10. The cover, I mean. But it's not perfect. That's, again, we're getting into the mud about the flow. This is when we lose a lot of listeners and viewers. Everybody's tuned out at this point. But stick around. We've got something really fun coming up.

What do you got up next, Peter? What is on your like? Okay, so on this, as I often like to do, it's fun for me to think about the same year. If there's other good things happening. And this is 1973. Yeah. This is, if our wheelhouse had a wheelhouse, if my wheelhouse for recorded pop music

or just music in general, So these are just a couple I didn't want to go too far Because it's supposed to just be one right Yeah But I'm going one two three Well we can be as many as one It's our show we do whatever we want

Herbie Hancock Headhunters 1973 That's a good call James Brown The Payback One of my favorite If not my favorite James Brown We should

Can we please I'm petitioning right now I'm gonna do it publicly Talk to me We're the only ones who decide this So Can we please have Christian McBride Oh that

Yeah Shout out Christian McBride If you're listening We can just call We have his knife I know Okay, okay. Please come on the show and let's talk about James Brown, man.

We're going to drive to New Jersey, searching for me, Bright. That's great. Bob Marley and the Whalers, Burning, their first or second record, their great record. Oh, a little record called Quadrophina. You didn't know I knew about that. I was a little bit of a Who Fathers for a while. How did you get into the Who?

I had a friend that was really into them in the 80s, and I used to listen to. Are you serious? Yeah, yeah. Shout out Dave Burger. Okay, well, Quadrophenia maybe end up on the list here. And then also, and this is a record I was never really into, but I know it was a big record.

dark side of the moon. familiar with that little band called Pink Floyd out of the UK. Good night, Mike. I don't want to talk about it. Okay. But that's... That's all good stuff because you're in the era. You could be like, these are all very different records, but they're all very human records.

Can I just give you a compliment? The Bob Marley, the Who, the Pink Floyd. Very interesting picks for you. Yeah. I don't think you've ever had such varied picks. Yeah. For up next. It's impressive.

Yeah. That wasn't a great jazz period. Like I mean, it was like you said, it was great, but I can't tell you like, what was the greatest jazz record of 1973. Was that Headhunters? Is that a jazz record? Yeah, it was. It was. I have a weird one.

So during this whole week where we've been listening to Intervisions to prepare for this, I've also been like getting way into LCD sound system, which is like a punk dance act. Yeah. So this one man band is James, this guy, James Murphy, and he's playing a lot of the instruments on this album. The album is called, This is happening. and I've been listening to it with inner visions mixed in. Wow. And I've been struck totally different, by the way. Like nothing in common musically, not the same value system musically, not sonically.

A little bit of, you know, there's like scents for the sort of punky dance stuff that's happening. But the wabi-sabi element, like the leaving, like there's a track on this is happening where he's playing like these like woodblocks through the whole seven-minute track. And obviously he's just doing it in one take. whereas like I think on a dance record you would hear that either looped or sampled or programmed and this is like this dude just playing these like wood blocks

organically and it's like there's imperfections and he's a lot like Stevie like changing it up and like messing with it and having fun and so it's a small detail and this is from like 2010 you know it's a small detail but it makes such a big difference to me

as a human being to hear that and so very inspired by that and actually listening to these two things together as much as they don't seem like they fit together. It's been a really fun week getting into it. The other one is as an album by our friends at the SF Jazz Collective, which is an incredible organization out in San Francisco

in the Bay Area of some amazing musicians. They put out an album in 2011 called the Music of Stevie Wonder and I believe original compositions live in New York. There's some great arrangements on there. A lot of incredible arrangements by people like Miguel Zanan, amongst many others. And our friend Warren Wolf, a friend of Open Studio, is playing on that album.

And worth checking out arrangements of superstition, a bunch of visions, I think, is on there from this album. So definitely worth a listen. Yeah, for sure. That's a great call. Well, this is fantastic, man. I'm so glad that we covered this record. I feel like a little bit of pressures off,

but it's a little sad now. You know, what should we cover next? Can folks put that in the... I mean, folks are always putting that in the comments, but that would be wonderful if... Well, yeah, we've done talking book. we did songs, we could do a re-songs. If we wanted to do re-songs, we could do a re-songs in The Key of Life.

We've done it once, but it was before this whole concept of the show was fully baked. So we might try it again. Okay. With our categories and everything. We want to direct folks to our brand new newsletter, which is called, do you know the name of it? You'll read it. You just made that up, didn't you? No, that's what it's called.

Oh, I know. I was just kidding. No, Caleb made that up. Yeah, you'll read it. So if you go to you'll hear it.com, don't go to you'll read it. at.com because we don't know if we own that. We've got so many domains we can't afford to buy anymore. So just go to you'll hear it.com.

You can learn all about that. You can leave us a voice memo. I'm just going to leave that out there. Let people figure it out. A question. You can go deep dive on different things like that. And oh, you know what I was thinking we could start to do? I'm going to call it audible here.

This will make it worth folks sticking around to the end. Who's here? Hi, mom. Hi, Mrs. Manis. The two mothers are here for sure. No, mom. Does that list. I don't know.

could we tease out something that's coming? We're not going to say it's coming next week. It could be next month. But something that we know we're committed to doing just for folks, a future record. To get a little, maybe controversy going. Sure. Certain initials, K-L

is the name of the artist, and the album is T-P-A... Careful. B. Everybody knows it. They put in the comments for months, Peter. They've been asked them for me. They don't know that we're committed to do it. Until next time.

You'll hear it. Thank you.