You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - Is Bossa Nova Jazz?

Episode Date: September 16, 2024

Peter and Adam listen to the iconic Getz/Gilberto album that revolutionized Bossa Nova in the world music scene. Which brings us to the big question... is Bossa Nova Jazz?Unlock your FREE Open Studio trial to become a better player today.Looking to drop a question? Want to listen to the audio pod? Look no furtherhttps://youllhearit.com/Have a question for us? Leave us a SpeakPipeCheckout courses from Adam, Peter and more at Open Studio🎹 Head over to our YouTube channel for a better look 👀.Follow us on Instagram

Hey, Adam. What does this remind you of? Well, it should remind me of like a white, sandy beach and a fruity macktail in my hand. Beautiful people scampering about the beach. But what it actually reminds me of is that summer of wedding gigs I did before I moved to New York. In Brazil, though, right? No. It was like in Fenton.

Fenton. Missouri. I'm Adam Maness. And I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to The You'll Hearer Podcast. Music Explored. Explored today, brought to you by Open Studio. Go to Open Studio at OpenSudio.com for...

Oh, you jazz lesson needs. Peter, what are we got? This is super excited. Look at this. We have Gets Giebelto. Wait, say that again? Jets Geperto. It's Gets and Juao Gisbelto.

I'm just trying to pronounce it right now. Jalberto. Is it Gilberto or Gilberto? Gilberto. So is it Gets or Jets? It's definitely Gets. Stan Gets. So Gets with a Jeep, but Jillberto.

It's funny that it's so hard to say this because this is one of the most famous jazz records. If it is a jazz record, we're going to talk about that. I think it is. But yeah, yeah, it is one of the most famous albums of all time. Yeah, one of the, but it's one of those records that is not, like so many people have heard this. It's played so many different places. Eiquitous. From like, you know, attentive listening with an LP like we're going to do today, all the way to walking through an airport in Rio de Janeiro.

Or it could be anywhere. You could be in Memphis, Tennessee, and you might hear some of this. So it's ubiquitous, it's heard a lot. This is the actual LP, and I don't know if you remember this, Adam. This is not just a hipster vessel right here, although it is that. Do you remember what is inside of here? An album, I hope. Yes.

Do you remember the size? Look at that. What is that? That's the original. I'm just kidding. That's a joke. That was a person. It took us three times to pull this off.

What? Look at this. The original jazz of America is on Verve. That's true. The wit of America is on Verve. The wit of America is on Verve? I don't know why it says that. That's what it says.

Look. I wonder if Verve was a big. big comedy album. Yeah, I don't know about this, but this is original. This is yellow. Producer Caleb over there is very nervous as I handle this. If anybody is a record historian in the chat and you know why it would, why Verve would be the wit of America is on Verve, why that would be their saying.

You know what, this LP, just kind of any LPs, but especially from this time period. This came out in 1964, my friend. March, 96th. I remember 64 fondly. Well, you were not born yet. I was not born yet. But I do remember it from movies and from like pictures. You know what this reminds me of pictures of.

pictures of my mom and my dad in 1964. My mom with a big Mary Mecco dress. Oh, beautiful. She was little, big dress, big, like, big beehive hair, a lot of that kind of stuff going on. But also, think about who would have had this album. And maybe this is how it was passed down to producer Caleb. Nope, it was bought a dead waxer, $15, actually.

Okay. But anyway, these would have been, like, you know, when, what would be grandmas now, but at the time, they were young, hip moms, would have the console. LP. That's right. Right? You know what I'm saying? That's right. Like with the speakers, everything built in, it was a piece of furniture in your living room. You know what else would be sitting next to it? What's that? Along with this record? What's that? A fondue. A fondue maker. A fondue vessel, right? Oh my gosh. Those are the days. Just melted cheese and stand gets blaring through your speakers on your what looked like a coffee table. Right. Exactly. Exactly. Good stuff. Okay. So we're going to get

into all this. Excited to listen to this. I don't know this record super well, even though we're talking about it's ubiquitous. I've been listening to the last couple of days, which has been fun. And there was a time when I just never, like, I never dove into this as a musician,

although I played all these tunes. Yeah. Been to Brazil. This is almost all, every tune on here, except for I believe one is Antonio, Antonio Carlos Job Beam, Tom Job Bean, of course.

Yeah. And he's playing piano on here. So it's very much a Joe Beam record as much. In fact, sometimes people say that, like, Gets play Joe Beam is like the way they refer to this. You know, I know this very well,

but not is this album in the early 90s, Released, all of the Stan Gets Basanova stuff. I'm going to blank on what it was called. Oh, maybe it was... It was like a double CD. It might have been, but it was a big double CD case. With that weird reissue thing they were doing?

It was, yeah, I don't know if, I don't know what, I can't even remember the cover. But you know those big double CD cases? It was in one of those. My dad got it. Those were not environmentally friendly at all. Definitely not. My dad got it in the early 90s, in the big non-environmentally cases. And I know it was four CDs. It was a four CD set, that's right.

Yeah. It was like four CDs of Stan Gets playing Brazilian music. Right. And of course, this was on there. Right, right, right. And so I know all of these tunes from that, but I don't know. Like, it's funny, I don't know what albums they're from. You know what I mean?

It's one of those things where I've heard it so much because it was always on in the house and the car, but I don't know the particular albums that these were all from. And I actually think that this is some, I mean, Stan Gets did a couple records before this. Everyone always thinks this is when Boston Overs showed up in the U.S. And Stan Gets. he had actually done a couple of records before this without Jowel. And there was all there, like Quincy Jones, I know, did a, but this was very much like already a few years into like the Boston Over Cray's or whatever.

So, I don't know. Apparently the Boston Over Cray was nearly over in Brazil by the time this album came out. Right, right. And then, yeah, exactly, exactly. Shall we jump in? Am I driving today? Do I have the license to drive? Is that mean?

Yeah, well, let me give you a little bit of cultural context, Peter, because there's a piece a cultural context here that is going to be, I think, very relevant to the popularity of this album and then why this was sort of the last very, very popular Basanova album, or one of the last ones anyway. Yeah. So the cultural context, the number one movie in America was it's a mad, mad, mad, mad, world with Spencer Tracy. The number one, never seen it, never thought either. Never heard of it. The number one TV show I had seen on many reruns. Me too. Bonanza. Yes, Bonanza. Bonanza followed by F Troop. Give me a break. Yeah, you can't go wrong. KPLR TV.

Hell yeah. Now, the number one album, 1964 March, Meet the Beatles. This was the Beatles' first big stint coming to America with an album. They were about to, they were about to head to the States that summer. And so Meet the Beatles was this big, huge album. I want to hold your hand.

And I think, Peter, we could actually just draw a nice line in the sand here that this might have been the last super popular jazz album. Right. Because once the Beatles come around, And that Brit rock, the Beatles, the Stones, turns into psychedelic. They were already competing with Elvis and all of these other people. But now once the Beatles come in and bands start to come in, I think it's kind of over for the popularity of jazz in the 60s.

Yeah. And then even like we did last time we did Nefertiti and they said, you know, Miles's label was not happy with the numbers. post 1963, 64, right? Exactly. This is about the same time that the Beatles start taking over the world.

So interesting cultural contents right there. And of course, the president of the United States was Lyndon Johnson. Man, he's been the president for a lot of these records. Johnson administration

had a lot of good music going on. Yeah, I think it's interesting. If you could probably draw a line between 1959 and 1964, this was recorded in 63, but it came out in 64. Yeah. Was a huge record.

Huge. Millions sold. I don't know if it was millions or sold that first year, but a lot. And I know that, because it won album of the year, one of the few jazz records that's ever won. Won the Grammy for album of the year, which is huge. Yeah. It was a number one hit album, millions sold. Right.

And then the shortened version of Girlfamimim, which we're probably going to listen to first. We'll listen to the original version with just Astrid Gibretto. Jebelto. Why do I say it like a metallian? I don't know. I've always called this Get Skilberto, but I guess I'm. I'm wrong. Is it Gilberto? I think it's Gilberto. I really don't know. It's just fun. I know we've got Brazilians that listen, including like really immortal Brazilian musicians

like Romero. I'm going to play you something that's going to... Text Romero. See what... I'm going to play you something that's kind of weird. Are you ready for something weird? Yeah. Sheepishly, he said that. There's a weird subgenre on YouTube. Check this out. We might get dinged for playing this. We are looking at how to pronounce this name as well as how to say more interesting names from music, so make sure to stay tuned and consider subscribing for more learning. He was a Brazilian singer, songwriter, and guitarist. Gittarist. He was a pioneer of the musical era.

Wait, stop, stop. How can we trust this guy to tell us the correct pronunciation of Gilberto? We call it Gittorist. Because he's speaking in Brazilian Portuguese. Okay. You know how you know that? Because look at the Brazilian flags. Wow.

In the late 1950s, how do you say it? In Brazilian Portuguese, it is said as Jean-Waumé�uberto. Gilberto. So it's a Gilles. Yeah, Gisberto. Gisbeilberto. You got to put it in your nose.

Gisbeerto. Yeah. Gilberto. Isn't that a weird? One more time, can I hear it? Back it up a little bit. Jovo. Jouberto.

So Gisberto. So gets Gilberto. Yeah. Would be how to pronounce the album. First name? Stan. Stan Getz. Can we say Jets?

Jets, Gilberto? We can say whatever we want. Sten-Libberto. Jilbim. Yeah. So we've got that out of the way, right? Yeah. Shall we listen to a little bit of...

So this is the original version, not the reduced version of, of course, the famous girl from Impenema. It's a great cover. I know we're going to get to that in a cutraman, but Joisle's guitar playing is tasty. You think of his voice though, Peter. I like it on this.

Okay, yeah. Look at that. I love his phrasing. Ah. Because I'm sooo-sozine. Oh. Tom Jobeam, just tasty at the keys. Dflat major, not the F that's commonly played.

To me, this... To me, this... About his voice and about his voice and about... the quality of it, first of all. Another great voice. But Zhao's voice and his style

of singing, I think, is the culmination of the crooners. You know what I mean? So, before microphones were invented, nobody sang like this. Right. You couldn't sing like this and people couldn't hear you. The feathery. You can't be heard over even an acoustic guitar if you're

singing like that. But once you have a microphone, you can get really close to it. You can get way down in these parts of your voice that are almost inaudible. And this is a brilliantly recorded album. Absolutely. It sounds amazing. It sounds amazing. Phil Ramon, who would have known, was the engineer.

What makes sense? It was his studio. But, I mean, that style of singing, pioneered by Bing Crosby. Yeah. Sinatra. Yeah. But I think this is like really the pinnacle. Maybe the apex mountain of crooning.

Yeah. You know, I mean, we'll get into it later with maybe modern. I mean, Chad Baker, same kind of thing. Yeah, for sure. But using the microphone as the instrument and just using this part of your voice that's so soft. What's interesting is, I totally agree. The way Astrid versus Zhao phrases this melody, very different.

They were married at the time, but... Ah. Is Stan kind of crooning on the saxophone moment? 100%. I was going to say he's using the microphone in a similar way. He'll open it. it up. Yeah. But that breathy tone, that works really well with

microphones. Yeah. You know, you don't hear tenor players in the 30s and 40s playing a lot like this. Right. Even someone like Ben Webster has this Yes. Big sound. Yep. Not that Gets doesn't have a big sound, but he's obviously playing to the technology. Yes, definitely has some Ben Webster influence. Lester Young. For sure. Leser.

But yeah, in the mix, the voices and the saxophone are so far out front. the drums. I think he's, this is Milton Banana on drums. He's using brushes, that's brushes, right?

Yeah. It's so demure. I'm saying, if you're learning this song to play cocktail gigs or whatever, just to know it,

this is such an easy solo to transcribe. Transcribe stands solo. And it's a beautiful way to learn how to get around those changes, which is not easy. There's tricky changes.

Yeah. This is Tom Joe being the composer of this song. Playing like an arrangement. of course. Exactly. I think he's, well,

we'll get into that. He's my favorites, man. You ever hear stone flower? We should do stone flower at some point. Yes. That's a great period form.

Is this a minimalist record? Yes. Yeah, I agree. I mean, even down to the cover art. Yeah. Even though Gets is pretty busy. Like,

he's busy on this record, but I think, is playing on top of that? A little bit. Listen, that bass group. Doom, there's no, boom, doong, doong, do, do, do, no. Everything Tom Jobim plays on the piano, too.

These perfect little punches. Yeah, this is a true, like, the rhythmic flair is coming from Joisle's guitar. The piano is punctuating, and the guitar is just so consistent. Okay, so there was allegedly some, a little bit of contention in the studio between

Jouao and Gets and Gets. Jets and Juerberto, you mean? Jets. And I think I was trying to figure out because I'm like, sometimes it's those things where people like,

oh, they hate each other, this. I mean, like, there was a story about Betty Carter and Ray Charles. They did a session, a very young Betty Carter. It's a brilliant session

and had kind of a hit. I'm trying to remember what the tune was. But apparently they did not hit it off and met. And like Ray Charles he kind of said some, foul stuff about Betty and didn't know she was there

because he was blind or whatever and then they had this thing, but then they had this beautiful duet that they recorded. So sometimes something great can come out of that. But I think allegedly, Zhao did not like the way Stan gets was rhythmically phrasing or approaching these Brazilian Boston overgrews.

And I mean, obviously people love this record. There's such a synergy there. But like, check this out. Like the way the rhythm section is playing, Like, there's, Gets is kind of jazzing it up a little bit. He's floating. Yeah. He's floating. Yeah.

And so I can see how, like, I think it's a really cool effect. It's so funny, we take it for granted now because this is what most of us, this was the first Basta Nova most of us heard. That's right. You know what I mean? So that's what you just think it sounds like. It's really, it's great. Yeah, but I can see how there was a little bit like you.

It's like a different way of playing a little bit, you know. You know, it's funny too with the, I don't know if a lot of people realize, but Basanova as the style, this was very new. here. These are the people that kind of invented it. Yeah. Playing it, you know, Jacques Roberto, like when you hear Romero on one of his courses here at Open Studio Bosnova and Jazz Guitar talk about the origins of it, it's the Samba taken into apartment buildings. Yeah. And then you can't obviously fit the Samba School drums into an apartment building, but you can fit an acoustic guitar and that guitarist will mimic, you know, that sound. And

then you get a songwriter like Tom Joe Beam who can take that sound on a guitar, on a piano, in a smaller environment for these parties in the 50s, and this thing happens. Right, but it wasn't, they weren't planning it as like for the early 60s with the fondue machine in the Mary Mechel dress, you know. Yeah, but this fits that aesthetic. It happens to fit it perfectly, doesn't it?

That was a little later. Yeah, the modern sound. Yeah, yeah. Well, good. That's kind of, you know, getting us into the vibe here, right? Yeah, let's talk about some bangers, Peter. All right. The track I always love, the one that I sing when I'm doing the dishes.

Yeah. So don't know Samba. Well, that's good because can we combine, we're going to listen to that, right? Yeah. Can we combine that? Because I have that as my solo, favorite solo. Vi-va-V-V-V-V-I? No, no, no.

Stan Gets. Oh. Yeah. Good. On Sodansal Samba. So, yeah, let's check a little bit of that out. That could easily be my banger, too, but I... Okay, so this intro is so, like, you talk about some things to study as a rhythm section playing.

the way I believe Zuao is playing the bass on the guitar but maybe that's actual bass I'm not sure you probably could hear this but the rhythm is so dialed in as soon as he start

There's just guitar in the intro It's just guitar case but you hear he's like playing must be with the thumb or something playing the bass note but like the precision of this there's nothing extra but it's got the vibe

and the flare and it's got the syncopation and it's got that kind of like but it's actually like rhythmically just precise there's no extra things that's Zhao in a nutshell yeah but I mean like

this could so easily like if somebody would have transcribed this and just play it off the page, it could come across as so bland and boring and Ramada in airport by Lambert Field. You know, like that's why having the right vibe on this kind of music, there's such an art to that. Like the science of it can seem simple

to the point where people add too much stuff, even with the whole bass thing of like, like when it's been doing well, it doesn't have all this. Check this out again. Listen that bass. Boom. Boom.

Boom. So dance a samba, so dance a samba. And then like those anticipations, dunce. Don't dance a samba, go. So dance a samba, so dance a samba.

Vai, go, bye, this is as much samba as it gets in the Boston Nova, I guess. I know this one chord, I've ripped that off so much.

Every samba I've ever played. I just try to play like, I don't know. The front phrasing, Jiao, he'll do a whole verse in the first two bars. Right, right. And it's chill. Great solo. This is a good solo.

But like that kind of stuff, sorry to even stop, because this is a really good solo. But it fits, but I can see how Jiao is probably like, oh, what are you doing? But it is like, this is almost like a fusion record in a way. You know, like we think about like, oh, Gets is bringing the Boston over here. And it's kind of like, no, it's a Boston. No, it's a Brazilian group, you know, playing in a certain way and Gets jumped, you know, dancing in there, using the phrasing, like, playing off of that in a really interesting way. But also, I think appreciating the simplicity that's around him. And like, to me, this solo, I'm going to shut up and just let it play in a second.

But it's like this solo, the reason I picked it was just he kind of goes crazy on this thing in a way that's like, and this is like, and this is like, One of the, wasn't this early in the record or is this later? No, it's later in the record. So forget that. Anyway, let's check it out. So then's send back, bye. Open it up. And especially when the key change, that's what he really starts going crazy to say.

Oh. Coleman Hawkins. That was what that sounded like. He uses range so well. He knows where his wolves are. He knows where he has sound bites. Yeah. uses it for really great effect.

Damn. It's a long-ass solo for a Grammy Alba the Year record. Jalbeam. Jiao is comping tune. Like, it literally doesn't matter what Stan gets. Nothing. He never acts. He doesn't react to anything he plays.

It's just the engine. He's the engine for it. And even Jal beam, he does, like, he listens and is, like, going in there, but it's not like that kind of interactive thing. Track, actually. Yeah, I mean, even. Milton Banana's not doing anything either No, he's just this, yeah.

Viving. Cool to be if your name was Milton Banana and you played drums. Just long as vamp at the end? You know, I could have been Lester Earl Manus the third. I don't think about that almost every day. That's kind of the opposite of Milton Banana. But it's got a vibe. Milton Banana.

So that's, yeah, I'm glad you, that's a great track. It comes in. It's just, it's kind of a weird track because the vocals, the melody, so playful and fun. And then it's just like kind of bebop-ish, bluesy at times. Really cool solo, I think. And then it's just like vamps out.

You know? With him play, like him gets playing on top of the while. They're just like oblivious and just, they're like, we are grooving. We are not going to be stopping groovy just so you know. Yeah, do your jazz thing over there. It's like, they're already on the beach in LeBlanc in Rio. And the guy comes along with sex with like, cool, you can play with us.

We're changing nothing. You're not even here. Which you yakety sacks. Amazing track. That's my banger track. That's your banger solo. I think both are deserved. For your bangered track, Peter, you've got The Immortal. Quiet Night's Quiet Stars, Corkervato. Yeah. I mean, I love this tune, Sumi. Possibly the best composition, maybe other than Deci Fanado on this whole thing. Yeah. I mean, it's certain, I'm just looking, is it the, well, of course,

Girl from Impanima is the most played. But this is the second most. The Corcovado is so well-crafted. It is the jazz musicians standard, I think, at this point. Do we listen to a little bit? Absolutely. I love the way it comes in too. Quiet nights of quiet stars, quiet chords from a guitar, floating on the silence that surrounds, thoughts and quiet dreams, quiet walks by quiet streams,

and a window that looks out in Corcovado, oh, how lovely. It's a little better with Brazilian Portuguese than English. That's a great fun. Yeah. They kind of punked out, screwed by giving her the English to sing. Listen, English has a lot of... I think she spoke in this, though, and he didn't...

I mean, not that you have to speak it to be able to sing it. English is a great sung language in a lot of respects. me Bob Dylan Bruce Springsteer they sing it's some hell out of us in English Jerome Kern you know what I mean but for this stuff well I mean it was written in Portuguese just it fits the music so perfectly I bet Italian would work too yeah you know estate is it Italian it's language I call it a state it's you wouldn't go to an estate sale you go to an estate sale of the state estate yeah for this kind of

groove the language has... Yeah, it has the lilt. Liquid bounce that doesn't. Gets got that with his phrasing, too, but it's different. It's a little different. And to me it's interesting, you know. Absolutely. So my bangers solo. Bangor solo, yes, sir.

Is Dan Gets' solo on Desfinado. Ooh. And we can actually just play the whole track. Okay. If we must. As famous as the song is, not as much of a standard, because it's actually Fairly complex. It's hard to remember. It is. A lot of little subtle changes.

Natural That's Joe we're playing Yeah, I'm like, Natural What you know It's my Faultorne Oh

Every time Joey plays in me, I'm like, Yes Photography Photography Holy Flex is my fatal note a Holy Flex That's like when the Pope shows up in the Pope mobile, that's a holy flex.

But that's a pattern interruptor, that X, syllable at the end of that, you know, because everything is, yes, you know, a solilo, right, a, you know, and it's a no reflex. It's like, what? What? X. Friesings. Yeah. Fucking ridiculous.

I just think this solo It's one of the best examples of taking the melody and running, you know? Yeah. Stuff there with like Sunny's Blue 7 solo. Right. You start with this simple melody. And then he weaves this whole thing. You never lose the melody.

This is beautiful. It's a beautiful pop soloing. Yeah. Long solo too. And... It was a long form. wrong form and it's I mean this in the best part

this is a really great meandering solo my guess was a master of that which is hard to do you know I mean you can hear the melody the whole time yeah very referential to the melody it's not about we're going to build up for this one big climax it's just beautiful phrases cascading

so sweet I mean that's brilliant brilliant and there's nothing he plays in there melodically that doesn't have a direct connection with the harmony, you know, and like the movement's the little subtleties. And that's it. They don't go back to the melody.

No, no. That's like on So Don's Osambles. Yeah, which might be why he sticks so close to that melody. I'm a sucker for that man because it's like that takes some real artistry to be able to do that. Well, I think it's because, too, like, gets his vibrato, his sound was so beautiful. He kind of gets lost in that. Like, he's very self-aware of that, but in a great way in terms of like he looks. like he leans into that on this record especially.

I think in a way that is sort of a corollary with the way the rhythm section is playing. It's like we're playing beautiful groove. We're not going to, it's going to seem like it's so non-fancy. Although if you try to play this, you'll realize how damn fancy this is actually. But I'm just, do, do, do, do, and Jobim just, you know, just the littlest things.

But when you try to do this and play like this, you realize how sophisticated it actually is. Really the epitome of making the concept of making the, complex seem very beautiful and simple. I think Gets is playing, too. That's what I'm saying. Like, it's not, it's like, there's many different peaks and values. It's not build.

It's not one big story arc or whatever. Every phrase is its own little story. Can we talk about the sort of elevator music side of this conversation culturally? Oh. So like, a dark shroud comes across the studio. So I remember something that you said once that your father said about, like, I think it was Amajemal and that trio. And there, he was said.

something like, that's the best cocktail theater trio. It was Keith Jared. It was Keith Jared. You heard him live and he's just like, yeah, it's the best hotel lobby trio playing standards ever. Yeah. I think, but I think there's something about that conversation because I think albums like this can get dismissed, especially now, you know, decades and decades later as they've

been just like, you know, this first of all, so wildly popular. Yeah. And then, and then infinitely. imitated. Yeah. I mean, you know, if you go out this weekend to someone's restaurant gig, there's a good chance they're playing a song off of this album. Yeah.

You know what I mean? And it's not going to sound as good. It's not going to be as great. And it's going to be sort of this like, you know, for not to throw shade on the, on the, our incredible restaurant musician scene. But there's going to be some kind of like, yeah, we're just, you know, the bass player's reading it. Yeah.

Never really checked it out. Nobody's really learned gets a solo on it. Or how Zhao actually. actually phrases. There's no connection to the actual music. It just becomes the standard in a book that people read. And then that's how people hear this music when they're having their mimosa at brunch. Right. Instead of like, you know, what this was probably like in the early 60s to be a part of the cultural movement of it. And this, like you said, this fusion that was happening between jazz and Brazilian music in that time, which is very cool and very exciting. There's two cultures that actually came up separately, but have a very, you know, with Tom Jo Beam's sophistication in, you know, harmony and the incredible rhythmic vocabulary of Brazil have a very similar vibe that jazz has, you know. Yeah, it's not a forced fusion.

No, not at all. It's very natural. It's very natural. Very, very natural. Yeah. So I just, I want to, because this happens too, I think, with, like, Nat King Cole's music. Like, it's easy for that to be cocktail piano jazz or whatever, or, or Keith Jarrett even, like, with the standard stuff. Because people are ripping it off, not ripping it off, people are playing it because, you know,

obviously those songs are popular and easy to imitate. And there's a nostalgia with them. There's like a kind of cultural beckoning to another time that people would use. But yeah, no, I totally agree. Maybe a little foreshadowing to,

I had a different bespoke genre, maybe like elevated elevator music. Could have been. elevated music. Elevated. But this is the kind of thing that if it comes on in that, they don't actually play music in elevator. But when we were coming up,

it was like elevator music or dentist office music. Right. Which was pretty much the smooth jazz had taken over by the time. Yeah, it was so funny when people called this elevator music now because there's no elevators playing the stuff. There's no music in elevators, is it? They're playing like all kinds of different. Britney Spears, somebody contemporary.

Most of them are playing an actual ad for the Snickers bar in the lobby. You know what I mean? Or for the hotel service. It's like targeted towards you. It recognizes your face and then plays what it thinks you want to. Yeah. And if they're playing any music, it's going to be Taylor Swift or something like that. Right.

Something even more globally generic. But it's like this is the kind of album that if it comes on and arrest, like as background music, it always puts a smile on my face as opposed to just some garbage, you know. Or not even just garbage, but just like there's a version of this. And maybe you were alluding to that in terms of like restaurant gigs where people are a little bit checked out or whatever. We've been there. You know, we've been there ourselves.

so with no shade. I mean, sometimes you, it's hard when nobody's listening to elevate the music. But there's also just sort of like the, you know, the coffee house jazz version of this stuff that you hear

and you're like, man, why don't you just play the, is it a money thing that don't want to pay to royalties, whatever, but when you do hear the real deal of something like this. Yeah.

And to me, that's, this record is very much, occupies a space similar to KOB for me. We're going to talk about that. Oh, But in that...

I think there is a similar vibe. Yeah, when it comes on, it puts a smile on my face, as opposed to, like, a real... That's why I know I'm not a jazz knob. Because the jazz snob would be like, oh, this isn't even... Stan gets his best record from 1964. The lost sessions from the...

The Kalamazoo Lounge in Michigan was way better than this, you know? Because this is a popular record. This was a huge record, but it always puts a smile on my face when there's the intersection of pop culture and something that's truly artistically great and has some substance. Well, it's so funny, man, because, like I said, this is sort of the end of this because counterculture is going to take over.

It's not going to be cool anymore to be... Sex drugs and rock and roll, baby. To be so... For it to be so well-crafted. Right. Like, that's going to be considered then to be like, you know, Pat Boone. Right, right. When something super well-crafted.

Old-fashioned. As opposed to the Who, you know, which is like this raw stuff that's coming down the pike staring at this at the end of the 60s. Yeah. Which will then carry through a little bit through the 70s. Luckily, I think we get some polished back by the end of the 70s. Right. But there is that whole counterculture movement that happens right as this is going down,

starting with probably the Beatles and the stones that is going to change. And then, you know, it's incredible to watch now from years and decades later culturally to put this in perspective where it was. It's very cool. Let's talk some over underdogs. Okay, I was going to say. Is it time for that? Yeah. I'm excited about these.

So Stan gets. underrated or overrated, Peter? Because he is very... He's both a little bit, right? Yeah. I mean, it's weird to say is he overrated on this record because I think he's playing beautifully.

This is not my favorite Stan Gets playing, though. Like, if someone would just be like, what's your favorite record? I would actually say that live at the Philharmonic Hall with Oscar Peterson True. I think he's with JJ Johnson. Yeah. That's one my favorite.

I mean, I listened to that record early on. The studio one as well. Yeah. With Oscar Peterson. It was incredible. I mean, we're not saying like, oh, Gets can only play good with Oscar Peterson. That's just coincidental.

Maybe. A lot of people could only... But this is his, I think to most people, this is the entry point and the exit point for all things he gets. 100%. So I could say it's maybe a little overrated. He's a little overrated on this. But he's doing wrong. Yeah, it's hard to say someone's underrated when they're so popular. Right.

When they have this like one of the most popular recordings, jazz recordings of all time. It's hard to say like, oh, he's underrated. But he's not on the cover. So that changes things too. Even though this is a huge record, he is, you know, know, he's in the background on here. But nobody talks about him as a tenor titan, like they talk about. Yeah, why is that?

Train or Sonny Rollins. Well, I'm thinking Sunny Rollins, because weren't maybe about the same age, maybe I guess was a little older. But, I mean, coming out of this time, why is Sunny Rollins so much more? Think about Sunny Rollins, John Coltrane, Wayne Shorter, coming out of the 60s up into our era of saxophone players, Chris Potter and Brand for Marcellus and all these. Joe Henderson on the same. Joe Henderson.

Yeah, but why are all of them seem? Although I've heard Bramford talk about San Gets was a big influence on him, or an influence. But like, doesn't Gets seem like he's less of an influence on all those others over the current generations? Maybe, but I wonder if it's sort of the, again, the Chet Baker effect of like so popular, you know what I mean, having these huge albums. Yeah. Which may be a little bit under, like, those albums are maybe not, shouldn't be as popular. Right. You know what I mean?

But then Wayne kind of hit that with Weather Report. Yeah, but that's in the 70s. You know what I mean? It's hard to say. I mean, I'm just saying, like, Sunny and Wayne are not making these kinds of albums at that point. Joe Henderson did, but it was in, like, 1993. That was killing, that. That was supposed to be with Joe Bean.

So, overrated? I mean, I would say- Rated properly. I would say rated properly. He's found his place in history. I do think Joe Beam's piano playing in general and on this record is underrated. It's hard to say Joe Beam is underrated because he's such a lesson. I think Jobeam, do you see how it just said legend?

Legend. Jean Lejeaned. I think Jovim is underrated as a composer, as a player, as a musician, as a singer. Wait a second. How could you, how could Joe beam possibly, if I was saying, name me the greatest composer. We take it for granted. From Brazil of all time. Would he not pop up on the top?

He'd be number one, of course. So how's he underrated for that? Because he's underrated in the general popular. Like, he should be talked about. If people could name anybody. they would name him. He should be talked about in the same breath

as Gershwin and and he is. Ellington. I don't know if he is. I think he's in sort of their S tier, he's sort of A tier. As far as like exposure

that people talk about. Well, I mean, unless you're saying American songwriters, yeah, he's underrated because he's not American. American. But I'm saying like

if there's any awareness, I mean, I beg to disagree. That's all. Okay. It's okay. But I do think his piano playing is definitely underrated.

He's just not, like he's such a simple player, but he's so, crafty. And I mean, he's a real pianist, pianist, I think, too, not in a very different way than like Oscar Peterson is, obviously, but in a similar way in that he plays the right stuff in the right situation, not just on his music. I mean, of course, this is his stuff. But I just think, yeah. No, he plays like, he plays like a brilliant, the brilliant composer and arranger that he is. Yeah. Like, he's not this virtuoso pianist, but he plays exactly the right thing at the right

time. Overrated, possibly, question for you. Xualo, and or Astre. voice. Let's get into it. So Zhao's voice is not, it's, it's beautiful. First of all, this famously didn't Miles Davis say he could listen to Zhao read the phone book and it'd be sexy or something like that? He said something like, I mean, I know that's a cliche at this point, but I think Miles actually. Sexy phone books? That's a cliche.

Do you ever have another back pages on the RFT? Okay, boomer. Yeah, no, so I kind of fall like, I think the totality of his vocal delivery. Why do you hate Zhao's voice? I do not hate Charles' voice. I'm saying if you just were to say just his instrument, I say it's maybe a little overrated in that, to me...

It's not developed. Yeah, it's not, but his delivery with his phrasing, his musicality, the whole thing I think is not overrated. It's amazing. It's innovative. It's beautiful on this record. But just if you take his voice as an instrument, you know what I mean?

It's, to me, it's a little bit, a little bit. overrated. I think it's interesting because I think we're, again, we're staring down the pike here at this countercultural revolution that is going to bring in voices like Bob Dillon's, like Lou Reed, like Nicos, like a bunch of voices that are distinctive and not perfect. Right. And they're not great singers. Right. And I think Zhao's kind of the pioneer of this. It's not interesting. It's not that he is a great singer, but it's not that he has this Nat King called Johnny Hartman, incredible velvet tone. I mean, he's got

this like low mid-range thing. He can be a little pitchy, doesn't have the greatest breath support or resonance or anything like that. He sings very, very quietly. Yeah. And his phrasing is genius level phrasing. Yeah, that's what pushes it over there. And the way he expresses and it fits

the compositions is like a perfect match. In the same way, the Bob Dylan's voice is obviously slur and his pitches all over the place, but it matches those songs he wrote so perfectly. It helps tell the stories of the songs and gives you this, and, you know, fits the vibe of the songs in that same way. And Zhuad definitely had that same thing. And Zroft has that thing. So I think it's a little precursor. I can't. And the musicality.

Like his, obviously, his guitar playing, his musicality, he's a composer, like, lyricist, like he, you layer that in with that whatever slight deficiencies maybe were noting in terms of the quality of his voice are so overshadowed by the whole package, right? I mean, we talked about crooners before, but if you put him up against Bing or Sinatra, or even Elvis. He's losing the vocal battle. Yeah. As far as like tone and pitch and the overall.

But he's, so it's interesting you say Sinatra. You know, Sinatra had this distinctive instrument, you know, beautiful instrument. Incredible. And very interesting phrasing, but not nearly as sophisticated as Jowell's phrasing a musicality. You know what I mean? Peter. Not as many dimensions, you know, for me, for me. Okay.

You know. Why do you hit Frank Sinatra's voice? I love all. these guys, love you. I would put 40s Sinatra up against anybody. I mean, I know the ring of ding, ding, ding stuff can be a lot, but I would put the 40s Sinatra.

Well, ring a ding ding, ding, ding my bell. When he was, I would put that against just about anything. Okay. What about Astrid's voice? I love her singing in Portuguese. Again. The English, I'm not as convinced.

Although she spoke English, apparently spoke several languages, but. I think it fits just perfectly with the music. And I think it's a real funny thing because, again, you know, she is losing the battle to all of the popular singers, Judy Garland, any of the people around this time, especially when you get into Ele Fitzgerald or someone like that, she's kind of, she can't hold a candle vocally, but it fits with this. And it is funny. Put in the comments, if anybody knows what I'm talking about vocally, is there anybody else in the 50s or 60s before the Beatles and before rock bands

became a thing that had that wasn't a great singer but fit the vibe before Zhao and Astrid because I don't know I can't think of anybody

offhand like everybody was very polished and had to be you know and I can't think of too many people I guess you could say Chet Baker has a similar quality

unpolish yeah you know that would be the only one I could think I think sometimes when the musicality side and the musical

understanding I mean not maybe there's always the musical element but like that intersection of, you know, melody and harmony and phrasing and stuff,

when that level starts to go high, like, that really opens up some, some things that would suggest a less than polished type of voice being more acceptable and interesting, which I think is great. I mean, it's, it's... Well, and then when singers start to sing their own songs

later in the 60s, you know, then it's... It becomes that. Okay, let's talk about a few apex mountains, because we think we may have reached some of those, but we're not sure. but one thing and I just sort of came to this as we were listening to it again this morning I think this may be Apex Mountain for OG

smooth jazz records and I would previously, and I know a lot of people are going to probably arm wrestling with me if this is even a smooth jazz record but I'll put this, if you're going to talk about kind of blue famously maybe time out being a smooth, you know, smooth jazz records and maybe I'm overlapping too much with like super popular minimalistic. Yeah, I mean, well, I wouldn't call that smooth jazz. That's just great right here.

Well, then how are you defining smooth jazz? Smooth jazz, stuff that is just like an oral bubble bath. You know, just a beautiful, it's just, oral, a-U-R-A-L, oral bubble bath. You know, just something that you can just like luxuriate in, it's very easy on the ears. Right. It's very, it's jazz, but there's not a whole much of crazy solo. Although this has some crazy solo, which is kind of weird.

But it's like there's nothing like, like a love surprise. which was from just a couple years after this, right? Or the next year, right? So that no one's ever going to, I'm never going to argue that this year. This was came out in 64. I think that's a thing here, isn't it? But we divest and diverge. No one's ever going to say, including, sorry.

64, yeah, 64. So no one's ever going to, including myself is going to say a Love Supreme is an OG smooth jazz record. Clearly it's not. Like, it requires a certain attention. Like, it's not background music. I'm not saying that this has to be in the background only, but it works as background music. That's what a smooth jazz record is.

If there's one thing we learned about Time Out, it's that it's not very smooth. That's true. When we listen to Time Out, it was not very smooth. That's a popular record. Yeah. That's a weird record. I kind of, I know what you mean.

I know what you mean with K-O-B and with this. It's like jazz albums that Aunt Linda loves. Exactly. You know what I mean? If you're going to say any smooth jazz records occurred in the 60s, this is the one, I think. I see that. I see that.

Okay. Apex Mountain for both Stan Gets and Jaouu, Gilberto? I don't think so. But together, yes. I think it is both of their Apex Mountains. Really? I don't think... Well, popularity.

I mean, Apex Mountain is how much juice do you have in the industry? Oh, well, yeah. I mean, it's the biggest record. It's like one of the biggest jazz records of all the time. I think it's their biggest, for sure. And possibly Joe Bean, definitely Astrid. Yeah. I can't think of anything more popular that any of those four people have done.

No, but we don't always talk about Apex Mountain is not. just about, it could be Apex Mountain for popularity, but like for me, it's not Apex Mountain for Stan Gets is playing. I don't think. It's for his bestselling record, yes, but to me, it's not his most interesting playing. It's up there. I mean, it's very good. We stole Apex Mountain from the Rwatchable podcast, and just like that podcast, we still don't know really what it means. They don't know it. They don't either. The people we still have no idea. Apex Mountain for A&R Studios in Creed Taylor possibly. In New York City, with Phil Ramones, the engineer, which I was not aware of, you know,

although there was a lot of great stuff went down there. Well, one thing we do know, this is Apex Mountain for elevator music? Elevated, elevator music. Yeah. Let's get to the awards. These are always fun. I love awards.

Not that we stole these from anything. The John Coltrane Theft Award goes to Show Beam on the piano. It has to. Yeah. He steals the record. Yeah, I mean, it's the most subtle theft ever. He steals it on the compositions, too.

He's the best part about the album, and he's just playing. And it says feature. Is he actually stealing anything? He's right there on the cover. But yeah, I couldn't think of anybody else. The Oscar Peterson Overplaying Award goes to... I mean, this is a record where there's actually no overplaying.

And actually, I put Zhu on guitar just because he's constantly playing, but that's like, that's the gig. And it's like, there's nothing... I don't know. Maybe I should change this. What do you think? Maybe Stan gets. Maybe we should go with Stan. Because he kind of is overplaying.

I don't know if there's any overplaying. on this album. That's true. But I'm saying like if this is such a minimalistic record, there's actually a lot of notes on it. You know? I would say if anybody gets it, it should be gets. I think Zhao's just laying it down. He's not overplaying at all. But he probably plays the most number of notes. If we do what had a note counter, like a word count. Yeah, but he's, but they're meant, that's the meant to be the style. That's true. To me, overplaying means you're like, you're hilariously playing too much in the

style of Oscar Peterson accompanying Louis Armstrong and Elifist Gerald. You just soloing underneath them singing the melody. What Zhao is kind of doing. Well, he's not soloing, but he's... No, but he's comping. He's comping constantly. I can tell you one person that's not overplaying, Joe Beam. No. There's no.

He's not winning that award. First call subs. Piano. You have Iliani Elias here. Yeah, who was maybe not available at that time. But she came to mind because I have her and Herbie Hank. Herbie Hank is hilarious. I'm thinking about the Joe Henderson, like when they needed a pianist

on the Verve record and Joe Beam had passed away, that was supposed to be the original thing. They brought in both of them for that record. So we know they can do this stuff. Can I throw a name in the ring here that I think might be the perfect fit? Oh, I know who you're going to say. I'm going to type it in here. So this will prove.

Do you see it coming up? No. Sorry. I put Hank Jones. Count Basie. No. Imagine if Count Basie were... What are you talking about?

No. Imagine if... Yeah, exactly. No, just like... You know what I mean? Just like these... Maybe. That's basically where Tom Joe Beam's do.

doing with those chords, you know what I mean? I would say Count Baser, maybe even Duke Galton could be an interesting fit. Duke fit. Yeah. They look like to see. You know what I mean? Interesting. It would be interesting. On tenor for Stan Gats.

Stan is not available, which is going to make this title difficult. I think Joe Henderson, for sure, Joe Henderson from the early 90s. I think, yeah. It'd be fun to hear. He had a great feel for the Joe Beam's music. It'd be fun to hear Ben Webster on this, too. Oh, Ben Webster, right. Yeah, it'd be fun to hear of Ben Webston.

You jazz it up. Guitar. I put Oscar Castor Nevis because, again, I heard him. I'm really thinking about the Joe Henderson group. Yeah, you are. From the early 90s. What about our very own Romero Lubombo? Romero Lubombo, what am I thinking?

You idiot. What kind of idiot do you think I am? He would be perfect. A big fat idiot. That's what I am. Okay. Base. You have written here Ron Crater.

I assume you mean Carter. Dude, if you would contribute to this section, you could have had to say that, yes. Ron Carter. Ron Carter, who played based on Stone Flower. Oh, that's right. Yeah, yeah. That's CTI, right? Yeah, there's another Creed Taylor.

Christian McBride. You can't put him on anything. Yeah. John Petitucci came to mind. We don't talk about him enough. Like, he would kill... I mean, that's along the lines of actually Ron Carter and Christian McBride, John Petitucci. They could come in on...

You can almost plug them into any record we're going to be listened to on this podcast and said they could sub it and kill it. Drums. A-Dew. A-D-D-U. Ribero. He would crush. Also, Paolo, Bragg. I definitely think about just long.

time associated with Antonio Carter Showbim, of course, and also played in a lot of the stuff with Joe Henderson doing the showbie. Can I put out a dream one too? Yeah, Jeff Hamilton. Jeff Hamilton. He was the Brazilian stuff. Very well. He would nail it. He would nail it. It would be authentic.

He wouldn't look authentic, but it would sound authentic for sure. Bespoke genre. What do we call in this? Because this is definitely this is almost like like if you said Gets, Bostinova Gets, Stann Gets, Bostin'Over, Gets. That's get bent still.

You know, like this is, this, this gives you the feel as soon as you say this record of what it is. It really is like a genre. Not just talking about Boston, over, but this approach to it. Yeah, that's specific thing. I have, I have Mad Men, Swamba. That's good. That's very good. Mad Men, as in the TV show, and Swamba, as in it's not quite samba and it's not quite swing.

When Gets gets out of the way, it's Boston over, if not Swamp. Yeah, okay, so I like it, Swamba. I've got Kiparina Kasa Bossa. Wait, wait, wait. Hyperina, Casa, Bossa, because you got your Kuiperina, the national drink of Brazil. Pasa, home, balsa, jazz. Phone book, funk. Home book, funk.

Not this record. They phone book. Yeah. Let's talk about the cover. Can we throw that up there again, producer Caleb? Well, we can look at it here. Yeah, the cover is by Olga Al-Bizzu. Oh, good old Olga.

Puerto Rican artists. Amazing. This is beautiful. Her cover is gorgeous. It's minimalist. It fits the vibe. You can, you know, you put this album again on that piece of furniture in your grandma's living room.

Oh, so it has the record player on it. It's going to look perfect. Look at the proportions of the... Got a giant ashtray here that's in kind of like kidney shapes. You know what I mean? And it's lime green. Yeah. No, it's so good.

So good. The design in the back design is great. Yeah. Do we give that a rating anymore? I'm going nine out of ten on that one. No, we don't do that, though. We do not do. Okay.

Give me a hot take, Adam. Do you have any? Hot take. Or rant. How can you rant against this record? You'd have to... Well, there are some elements we can rant against, but... Yeah, hot take is that we should leave these tunes alone for a while.

That's my hot take. Really? I think so. Why? Why can't we just play them correctly? After hearing them, after we just listen to them, I feel like, and they've been covered so much... Yeah. Let's all agree just two years, that nobody played.

is anything from this album. That's not going to happen. I know. That's my going to take, though. I think if we all just gave it two years of no more gigs where we're playing Corcovado. Then we come back fresh. Come back fresh. Fresh and fun. Maybe actually learn the head to DeSafanado. You know what I mean? Learn a couple of those solos from Stan Gets. Maybe play Girl from Impanema in D-flat or A-flat or E-flat instead of just F.

Like in a flat key because it sounds so good there. In a flat key because it sounds so good. Yeah. Get the melody right on Nipaneda. Let's take a break. Let's take a two-year break. We'll come back fresh in 2026. I like it. I've got a hot take on this. Some serious contention and strife in the studio can actually lead to beautiful music. So if the,

now, this was even, I believe recorded before, there was even more tension and strife. I'm sure between getting into stress, due to Astrid being married to Joual and then later on, allegedly partnering up with Stan Gets in a romantic way.

I'm sure it only got worse. But regardless, like, whatever rhythmic tension or groove tension they had, the album is beautiful. The proof is in the pudding, as we're saying. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes that tension works. Ask Fleetwood Mac, you know? Yeah, right.

Rumors. Exactly. It's the greatest. Those aren't rumors. Those are truths. Well, the album's called rumors. Similar vibe between rumors and this, actually. Oh, that's right, with the jumping around. Yeah, a lot of things going on. Snobometer. Snobometer. I've got this at a one.

I don't think you can get any less of a snobby jazz album than this. This is the most commercially friendly jazz album you could possibly imagine, in my opinion. I'm giving it a three because I don't think it's the most. I mean, wouldn't Kenny G. Like if everything's a one, nothing's a one. What is Kenny G. Songbird? Didn't we set that as a one? You can have multiple ones.

But I'm saying like, then is it just binary? So is Kenney G. Songbird a jazz album? Yeah. As much as this is, I think. Oh, did I just say that? Hot take. Hot take.

That's another hot take. That's for you. I mean, it's not a rock album. It's not a, it's an instrumental pop-bom, whatever. But it's, I mean, we would cover it on this bespoke. No, we wouldn't, actually. It's interesting discussion. I don't know.

I'm just saying that there is a level, like, there's a little bit of snobbiness to saying something that's super commercial actually has great artistic merit. There's a snobbiness to that take. And that's why I would say three. Okay. You know what I'm saying?

I feel you on that. Because that's kind of where I sit in it. Like, I love this record, but, yeah. I hear you there. I get it. Yeah. Better than K-O-B. Better than kind of blue.

No. No. Agreed. No. But just a smooth. Smoother. Smoother than K-O-B, I would say. It's like a smooth capillina and a warm Rio de Janeiro.

It's like Miles Davis was reading the phone book as he's walking in his bathing suit down, drinking a Kuiperina. Last category. How would you rate our pronunciation of Brazilian Portuguese on this episode? One. Like, for me, it's negative five for my. pronunciation. I'm the worst at this. Shall we roll out with some roll out

roll up out of here with the final track which is I want to make sure that this is yeah, Vivo Soando. Here we go. That was Fondo. That was Fundo. Until next time. You'll hear it. Tempe in which I'm asking if you

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