You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - It's All Communication

Episode Date: October 21, 2024

Adam and Peter talk about what it takes to communicate on the bandstand non-verbally and how to best approach situations when you don't know your bandmates very well.Unlock your FREE Open Studio trial to become a better player today.Looking to drop a question? Want to listen to the audio pod? Look no furtherhttps://youllhearit.com/Have a question for us? Leave us a SpeakPipeCheckout courses from Adam, Peter and more at Open Studio🎹 Head over to our YouTube channel for a better look 👀.Follow us on Instagram

I'm Madam Manus. Huh? What? I'm Madam Manus. Oh, I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to the You'll Hear It podcast. Number one, listen. Number one.

Music Explored. Music Explored brought to you by the Open Studio. Go to open studio. Go to open studio jazz.com. Oh, you jazz lesson needs, Peter. We are not incommunicado today. We are in communicato. We are post communicato? Sands. Sons. Christian Sands communicato.

Yes, we are in communication. We are in the zone. We are trying to communicate. Right. With gestures. Gesticulations. With body language. Iwinks. Winks. Eye rolls.

Nods. Half smiles. Maybe. Maybe not. And it's all because of a question by our dear listener, Alex, from Brazil. Let's check out Alex's question. on a speakpipe. By the way, if you want to leave us a question, go to you'll hear it.com

and leave us a speakpipe. So you're saying if people want to communicate with us, they should do so via the speakpipe system, which is hosted at you'll hear it.com. Don't just think it before you say it. Hear it before you see it.

That's right. You see it before you hear it. My mind's here. Hey, Adam. This is Alex from Brazil. Big fan of the show. I wanted to bring like a new sub, I haven't heard that been discussed at Open Studio nor at the show, which is kind of communication amongst musicians during a gig. So particularly when you're playing with musicians, you don't really know, so you don't know what to expect from them. So I was just wondering, like, how do you guys navigate on a gig in this context, like with cues?

If you have interesting stories about your own personal experiences, saying like, how do you, for instance, get into a solo, how to ask somebody to chill a little bit when they're overly playing or overly soloing? So I don't know. I thought this would be like an interesting topic that would interest everybody. So anyways, thank you so much for all your service for the music community. Bye. Thank you, Alex. Hi. Bye.

Thanks, Alex. And if you dare, cheap. Nope. No, that's the wrong country. Cha. No, we really appreciate the question. It's a great question, Peter. And I'm not sure if we had to have talked about, we had to have talked about communication on the podcast at some point.

I hope so. I mean, that would have been thousands of episodes later. Yeah, for real. Folks pox. But it's a great question, especially, you know, in the situation you're describing where you're playing with someone new or you're playing in a new band or maybe it's at a session and you don't know any of the players or you've never played with them before. Yes.

How do you communicate when you're going to solo, when they're going to solo? I love that he said when someone's like playing too much. That would never happen. Yeah, that would never happen. And even little things like, just stop playing. Well, that is one, I was going to say. That's like, could be the first place.

That's your last draw, maybe. The last draw is to just, we could talk about this. But yeah. And then like even intros and endings, you know, you can communicate an intro and an ending non-verbally 100%. You don't have to... If I were to...

Peter, if I were to... So let's just talk about that. Like, we're... We've never met. We're gonna play a two piano gig for some reason, and we've never met. Hey, who the hell are you? If I were to start a tune-off like this...

That was my first little verbal cue. I mean non-verbal cue. Maybe you get the bridge. We've had a few different things. So the first non-verbal cue was actually just me going... I was telling you what song we're going to play. Again, so when you're playing music with other people, there's generally a shared language. Just like when you meet someone new, you don't have to establish,

you know, the language you're going to, well, maybe you do have to establish the language you're going to speak, but let's say, oh, that's actually very important. It is very important. That's part of what that process was. That's part of what that. So I'm going to say, we're going to play some standards. I'm going to set the tempo. We're going to play it at this tempo. I'm saying all of that. The standard is autumn leaves. Catch me if you can. Peter knows exactly what to do. And we can actually say, a lot musically without even any body language right like if i were to we were to do that do this and then i were to kind of imply we know where that's going so that's but you have to know

that already you have to know those little language cues and then when we got to the end of what we were just playing i well so the first thing is then i threw the bridge to you because at the end of that um i looked at you i did one of those yeah what if i'd been like who me well if you would would have been, that's actually a great point, because I have thrown it to people at some point, and they're like this. Right. Or they're like this. Or they're like this? Yeah, or they're on their phone.

So you could be throwing at to someone and they're not, then you're just. Just be clear, we're not talking. For those of you're on the pot, they can't see us. Go to YouTube, first of all. You're missing out. This is about some verbal cues today, but also. Nonverbal cues. Non-verbal.

What do I keep saying verbal cues? but also we're not throwing shade when we say that we're throwing the ball, we're passing the baton absolutely, yeah, and it's important also to keep your head on a swivel, especially at the beginning and ends of sections. Right, so that's when things happen.

The beginning, the end of a chorus, right? The beginning of a new chorus. The transition between an A section and a B section. Like, keep your head on a swivel. It doesn't necessarily mean you have to go around making intense eye contact with everybody in the room as you're going, No, in fact, this is... Just kind of look up and give a...

Yeah, this is an important point, and I would say too much of this can be a problem, so how do you know when to have your head on a swivel, right? We're always listening, of course, but if we're always listening intently, we're never listening intently, right? We have to know those times when we can relax a little bit on either looking up...

I mean, ultimately, I think it always comes down to listen. Like, the highest level is if you can do all of this by year without even looking. But because you don't know the other players, you don't know necessarily what their kind of, what kind of affirmation they need to segue or to do something different than the verbal, I mean, the nonverbal becomes important, right? Yeah. The visual. So I think this idea of like what are the important points for us to be extra alert, transitions, introductions, beginnings, ending, going between sections, whenever a solo starts, whenever a solo starts, whenever a solo is maybe a, at a climax, whenever it's trailing off.

You don't want to do every single possible time, but you want a hierarchy of possible opportunities to be able to connect. Because ultimately, I think, you know, the answer to the thing of like, how do you communicate? The whole point of the thing is like, it's really about how do you get to that point

where the performance can be possibly great amongst musicians that don't know each other? So here's the highest level thing. So the very last thing that we ended up on, Peter, was the end of the chorus there. I keep switching the tempo. I'm listening. And you threw it to me, right?

Now check it out. So the most way, the most, the best way to lock into communication. The mostest way is to, I'm, I'll now get into my solo. And I'm going to be listening so intensely to what Peter is playing. I'm going to be pulling every single one of my ideas from something that I hear Peter play in his accompaniment, right? And this is a trick you can, it's not even a trick, but it's a, technique you can use in order to say like, I am listening to, it's like the conversational technique, Peter, where if someone says something, you pick up and you, like, tell me something, tell me

anything about what we're talking about here. Today we're talking about different ways to communicate on and off the bandstand, perhaps. On and off the bandstand is a great place to talk about communication. So I just picked up where you left off, the last thing you said, and I said it back to you. You kind of co-signed it. You kind of affirmed it. Exactly. It's a, it's a It's a conversational technique that works great, and it just shows the other person that you are listening to them. Right? Conversational technique. Exactly.

That's the important part. See, I'm listening. So you can work on this even amongst your improv. Because this is exactly the same as a language, right? And it can't become annoying, though, if you overdo it. You don't want to overdo it, but let's see how we do this. So every single thing that I'm playing comes from what Peter has already played. You might not even notice that, you know?

because I'm not playing exactly what he's doing, but I'm taking all the ideas. And they're not always rhythmic. Sometimes they're harmonic. Sometimes they're melodic. Melodic, yeah. Or I'm stealing this general shape of what you're doing. Or I'm taking one little rhythm that I hear you do,

and I'm kind of spinning it around. This is an incredible communication technique. And it's not just great for getting information and getting ideas, but it lets the rest of your band know. You could do this with every single member of the rhythm section you're playing with. It lets them know, I hear you.

Like, I am listening. This is not all about me. This is about us, what we're doing. And I am needing you to fuel the fire. And look at what happened. As soon as we started doing that, Peter started feeding me more ideas. He started recognizing that we are in a conversation and that what you're saying is being heard and matters to what I'm playing.

Yeah. And that is the highest level of improvisation that you could do. Yeah. And it's great because not only does it let them know that they're being heard, but it also elevates the game, potentially. Now, the other player has to have the skills in it in order to be able to, you know, go to that next level. So, and everybody, you know, there's, there's different levels within that. But the idea is when I hear that the soloist, kind of the one in charge of the direction of like where we're going to go is listening to something that I'm playing underneath, all of a sudden it

makes me kind of have to be like, oh, let me keep my shit together. You're a part of this. Yeah, I'm a part of this. And like, I can. can't just slack off because something that I play that maybe it might be a little bit half-ass or something, he might pick up on that and then I'm exposed, right? You know, and this is kind of that survival sort of instinct. So I think it's a great thing to sort of elevate and, like, attune the room to another level of consciousness and intentionality in terms of not only how we individually play, how we interact with each other, but ultimately what the kind of complete work project of what

we're doing work in progress as we're moving along comes across to the listener. So they might not be able to be like, wait, he's listening to that and then he listens. No, they shouldn't actually. They shouldn't, no. That's when it gets annoying. Right, exactly. Yeah. But there is a cohesion that comes out of the sound that would belie the fact that we've never played together, right? That's what we wanted to sound like. Sounds like you, what? This was the first time you guys are ever meeting? Sounds like you guys have been playing together for years. Yeah. That's what we want. Well, when you're listening to your accompaniment and you're incorporating it into your improvisation, it gives the accompanists some agency.

Yeah. Like, again, like, yeah, I don't want to slack off here, right? But I also, it gives you, like, a positive affirmation of like, oh, I can help shape this solo, even though it's not my solo, right? So you're going to give ideas. You might even take even more risks or more agency and, like, I'm going to help shape this thing. Yes. And we're going to do this together. I know that what I'm doing is going to be, like, dealt with, you know, with attention. Yeah. And, you know, this is an old kind of Buddhist philosophy thing. But your attention is your love.

Like that is when we say like playing with love, cooking with love, doing things with love, it's putting your full attention on something. And so when you're playing, why not put your attention on the music you're playing in all of it? And so it's like you're helping the others. And we can talk about this on certainly other levels beyond just a duo. This could be typically you're sitting in or whatever. The jam session, there's going to be different conversations than a collective conversation going on, but it's very much like, you know, a basketball team, which is five players, a point

guard that can shoot really well, say like a Steph Curry. Ever heard of him? Familiar with this work? Yeah, of course. That was a rhetorical question. Yeah, no, Jeff Curry, very famous. Yeah, no, of course, I've heard of him. Stefan Curry.

As they say in France. Yeah, so. The Golden State Warlords, correct? The G-LORLORES, exactly. No. Yep, yeah, the G-League. So when a great point guard like that... Steve Kerr.

Very good. Coach. When the point guard, Stefan Curry, is dribbling the ball down, part of his job, kind of his main job. Kevin Durant. No, not with them anymore. Oh, sorry.

It's been about five years. Okay. But when they dribble down the court, he has the ability if he's open to just take a shot. And he'll do that sometimes. But normally what he'll do and the way that the offense flows the best. And if we kind of take this over to the music,

the way the flow of the whole music as opposed to just the soloist. Like he'll pass, pass, pass, comes back to him, then he shoots. Now, what is the advantage? Some people might say, oh, well, you should have just come down and shot, saved everybody the energy in time. Maybe the other guys don't even have to run down the court and they can be back on defense. But what happens is in point guards, we'll talk about this, everybody getting to touch the ball.

Not everyone is going to shoot the ball. Only one person can shoot while somebody else shoots and misses, then you're back on defense, right? But there's a back and forth. If everyone touches the ball and then the shot goes up. up, you might think, oh, that makes them feel good. They're part of the game. No, no, no, it's not about that.

It's about when they go back on defense, they've touched the ball. They have participated in the flow of the game. So the whole game, their whole play is going to be elevated. Not just that one play. So they're coming back on defense. They've already touched the ball. They're in better positioning. There's like many different things happening.

And I think it's the same thing. Like when we listen, yes, you could just go solo and be like, well, I know he sounds pretty good, so he's just going to do his thing. But by taking that little bit of a passing the ball, get the ball back, you're still in charge, right? You have the ability to improve something that's going to happen, a chorus later or a tune later. Yeah, and to bring it back to the music thing, like, when everybody touches the ball, it's better for the audience, right? Yes. Because then it takes all of, it takes just the myopic thing of the soloist kind of out of the equation.

The audience realizes that it's collective improvisation, and that's fun for them. It's fun, right. Because otherwise, you might just... You're not playing together. You could just solo over some tracks. solo over an Abyssal record, you know, like solar over IRELB playalongs, right? Why not just do that if it sounds okay?

Right. Which some people do. Well, and some performances end up sounding like that, especially when we're in the danger of these situations. Well, like, I don't really know them. So let's just all play it safe and we're going to play like a neighbor, we're going to play like a backing track. And then when my solo comes, I'm going to play like a soul

because we don't have the ability to elevate things. But it's like, why not? We know the ground rules, right? Yeah, yeah. We know what tune is being played. We know what some of the. possibilities. We even know some of the vernacular maybe that are typically played, but how can

we make it sound atypical and not by rote? You know, all those things are available to us. Yes, you're not going to have the chances of success of communication at the highest level of people that you've played with for many, many years. But you're going to have the excitement of something new, maybe. You know, like the All-Star game. Yeah. These are like,

you know, it looks like they've been playing together. They're playing against each other. Fun to watch. Yeah. Right. That's great. So, honestly, I think you can get most of this, not even with like eye contact or body language, but a lot with just communicating musically. Let's address your question. I think that that's,

I just want to point it because we talked about that before in terms of visual versus, I still think that we should be shooting for mostly communicating. Oh, 100%. By sound. By listening, you know. Let's give you an example of that. So let's start on the bridge and it'll be my solo, right?

Okay. And I can communicate to you that I'm done without having to look at you. And I'm not, I'm going to look over here. Ready? One, two, three. There was no doubt, right? There was no doubt.

I'm ending, I'm kind of, you know, doing all the musical things. We're going lower. I'm hitting sort of like punctuating. Yeah, I've hit some wrong notes. That's exactly what I like to do. No, but like punctuating some stuff at the end of the solo. And we didn't have to look at each other. And kind of just wrapping, like a little bit of foreshadowing.

And then even some playfulness. And then kind of this is where we're going. And then we're going to wrap it up. But Alex, let's address your question about. Like, I'm leaving the party, but just get. No, no, I like the Irish ghost out. Alex, let's address your question. about what if someone's overplaying and you need them to stop overplaying,

which is an interesting thing because I don't consider it my job to police other people's playing in general. If it's at a jam session and I can see the bass players exhausted and there's been 30 tenor saxophonists who are all playing a B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-Bus. The gentleman's responsibility to throw a symbol at them. That's right. There can be that kind of thing. But in general, like we're on a gig together. I'm not going to police you are playing. But if someone is overplaying, like Peter, we'll do my solo again.

but maybe you can overplay the accompaniment, right? I could possibly not do that. But here's something that you might consider, which is like a bit of a judo move, right? So kind of... You're solo still, and I'm overplaying. I'm soloing. You're overplaying the accompaniment.

Like, you're playing too busy for what I should... What is happening? So just do like I normally do. One, you said it. One, two, one, two, three. And... You got it. You're fired.

So that's... Wait, we're just doing normal, like, how to communicate when we play, right? No, so what I was trying to do there was bring Peter in. So instead of like... Really? I thought you were passive aggressively laying out, actually. No, no, no. Instead of calling Peter out, I'm going to bring Peter in, right? So I'm actually going to like, if he wants to be playful and play all over my shit, we're going to be like, I'm going to, oh, okay, well, you got it.

You know, like, let's actually do some playing together then. So that's what I was trying to do. And then, I mean, you got really aggressive towards the end. So I did fire you after the gig because... You kind of went to the old trick. of like, oh, who solo is? It's your solo? I'm going to relax.

And if you really keep playing and keep your head down, I'm going to go over to the bar and talk to your girl while you're soloing. Also a possibility, yeah. No, I mean, but I would strongly suggest you try to bring someone in, because you could actually control that situation a little bit easier than if you're trying to butt up against them. You could also do what the old heads used to do to us, which is stroll. Go to a verbal, not a nonverbal, but a purely verbal.

If it really comes to that. stroll, which means shut up. Right. Stop playing. And we don't do that quick enough now. Well, I don't do it at all anymore. I mean, I mean, see. Well, but there's no, I don't have many occasions where I'm playing with players who are walking all over me.

I know you, even if you got to that point where that would happen, you would literally get up and stroll your way out of the situation. It really depends. It really depends. I mean, at this point in my career, I would probably, especially if it were like my gig or something, yeah, I'd be like, great playing with you, nice to meet you. And then I just never would call them again. you know what I mean? Because there's other options or whatever. But if I was stuck on, it wasn't my gig and you're with someone and they're overplaying or whatever, I mean, if it got really bad to like what you were doing towards the end, I might say something at a set break of like, hey, when I'm soloing, can you just like...

Play good instead of bad? Like, let me have it a little more, you know, or something like that. I've never been in that situation. I'll be honest. You're not enjoying our musical conversation, bro? Well, no. I've, no, I wasn't. But I've never, I've never been in a situation where someone is being that egregious with it, right? where it's just like they're walking all over me on purpose, soloing around me.

I've rarely, it's happened before, but it was more, and maybe this is more common that it happens to folks. It's more of like a group dynamic. It's not one-on-one. Yeah, people can amp each other up for real. I mean, I pride myself. I've definitely been in situations where I can be a little noteworthy

with my duly noted with my notewitness. And I've been in duo situations before, where I maybe pushed it a little bit and then got a little pushback from the other, which I actually think is a fun and that means we care and that we're listening. You know, it's kind of again, like with the basketball analogy, you pass me, no, give me to rock. You know, it's not that you don't trust them, but I think there should be, it shouldn't always be, oh, everything went exactly, like there should be a little bit of checking each other. Agreed.

You know what I mean? It's part of a conversation. Yeah. If you and I were talking and you were just not leaving any space for me to be in the conversation, Yeah. Or if I only agree with what you said. Right. At a certain point, I'd be like, yeah. Yes, man, or friend? Yeah, or I'd be like, oh, you got it. You know, I kind of with that attitude.

That's what friends do also. And when we talk about playing together, it sounds corny, but you want to be a good friend, a good supportive friend in terms of even if you don't know them. You know what I mean? But if it's like you're at a party and you're talking to someone and they're dominating the conversation, I'm just going to be like, this guy's a blow hard and I'm out of here, you know? Because you don't have to be there. Right. But that's, but like we said, like, how often you're going to be there? is that actually happened in a jam session or a gig? It's pretty rare. Yeah.

I mean, more I would think at a jam session just because people are learning and don't know sort of the etiquette of things. But it's a teaching opportunity then. That is definitely a teaching opportunity. Those of us that have experience, like we do, that's a matter to take a breath and not be like, oh, this is beneath me to be like, no, yo, this is something I have done

at a jam session because I've, because the rhythm section had been up there for 20 minutes playing a blues, is Peter, let's play again, let's play the last half of autumn leaves. Now I'm accompanying, and you're on your solo. You've already taken 12 choruses of autumn leaves, and you're about to go on your 13th, okay? Should we do the 12th so they really get to feel for it?

No, let's just do the last half of the 12th, but you're going to keep going, as Montes Coleman used to say, you can keep going as long as you have something to say. You have run out of things to say. That's the scenario. I feel like there's going to be some solo piano at that point. Check out. One, two, one, three, and.

am I supposed to stop playing good? You got it. Kind of weird and random. What in the scenario? Oh, I thought I was supposed to be like the worst, you know. Yeah, yeah. No, but this, I'm just saying what you can do and what I've done before in like a jam session situation. Force the second.

And what John Coltrane did on giant steps. It's like you got a. I got it. A musical I got it basically. Yeah. Yeah, that's super effective. You kind of just take the ball from someone and say. But no, no, no, no, no.

I get back. You did. You did got very aggressive with it. I don't know what to do in that scenario. I guess just getting a fist fight out of the parking lot. But usually, usually when they're not as confident as Peter Martin, that just

saying like, I got will cause them to be like, oh, okay, cool, cool. Yep. Yeah. And that's it. You don't want to do that like on a gig in a professional situation at all. No. But if it's a jam session. But you want to head it off before it gets to that

on a gig situation. Likely, yeah. You have to. But if it's a jam session and like the bass player's fingers are bleeding and nobody's being respectful of that, then you have every right. And honestly, again, the guys that were older when we were younger would have cut it off well before that. Absolutely. Yeah.

One thing I would like to add is that the communication can also happen. We're talking about musical communication, nonverbal communication, listening. That's all super important. But we can also do some communication usually before we play. Oh, totally. Great idea. It's very rare that we're in a situation, like, even if you get called up, like, to sit in, say, Hey, Adam Maness, we like to bring you up.

When you get up there, you can be doing some communication with the other players. And if it's about to start, and look, a lot of times that it'll be like, wait, what key were you doing this? But you can also be like, all right, let's keep this tight, you know, two choruses each. If the situation needs it, it doesn't have to be all or nothing, like, okay, we're just going to let the magic happen and whatever happens happens. That's great when you really know the players. That's right. But if you don't, it shows a sign of respect for the music and for the listeners if you do a little bit of organizational stuff or on a jam session. If you get up for a jam session, hey, guys.

And also just a little bit, like if I'm a sax player and I'm coming up on a jam session, the rhythm section has been playing. As you say, maybe the, you know, look around. Is the piano, is the bass player's fingers bleeding? That would be a worst case scenario, but also just kind of like read the room a little bit, you know, especially if you just walked in and you don't know how long it's been going. You don't know who played before. hopefully you did hear that, but let's say you just walk in off the street. If not, you know, kind of like, hey, how you doing? And, like, kind of read how everybody's doing.

And then you might be suggesting a tune. They might say something. Sometimes it's like, and you can kind of, no, don't do that. Just because you have, I see this too much. Somebody has their hearts and I want to play giant steps. So they get up and they're like, what do you want to do, giant steps? And if they're like, mm-hmm, don't be like, no, come on, let's do it. Ron, right here, you know what I mean?

You should have plenty of tunes in the chamber ready to go. Yeah. And ideally, you're kind of bringing up something that makes sense for that point of the set, not what your preconceived thing is. And that's all, I think, part of the communication process before you even play a note. Let's talk about communicating how to end a tune. So, again, we're on our autumn leaves. Communicate a tag. Again, musically, most of them.

So if I play something like that, I'm kind of queuing that. Like, let's have some fun. And when I'm doing that, I'm communicating that it's not a strict, like, 4-4-bar trading. That's right. So I just wanted, Adam just did something there. This might be the most important, kind of non-verbal. When I went like, Adam went, like, he gave a little, it wasn't as passive, aggressive as I made it was actually very like, it was just a quick little thing, but it was like, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? It's like, yeah, let's have some fun. Affirmations are so much more useful than some negative feedback. So I'm like, I like that. As humans, we respond more positively to, I like that than I don't like. like that. So if you hear something you like, give your partners a bit of affirmation and let them know, like, that shit you just did, that's my shit. I love that stuff. Right. And that doesn't

necessarily mean he's going to like just have to play it. Sometimes it's just a, mm, you know what mean? Totally. Or that could off, but there's a final in between that and a, hmm, well, that's what I'm yeah. You got to be, I mean, you hear us do that on our intros all the time. We're constantly be like, oh, yeah. Yeah, bro. Like, so musical conversation, like, if he does that bibibibib, and then I come and try to do the same thing. It's like, no, how can I hear that, like, twist it,

and then give him something to communicate, communicate off of, right? Make each other sound better. You have to just copy what everybody is doing. And then you can also don't feel like, oh, they sent me a thank you cards. I got to thank them for thanking. You're welcome for, no, like, you decide.

when you want to move on to something else. It's no, like, responsibility in terms of trading. And then when we're going out, the signal, it's so hard to communicate to the listener what we're trying to do when Peter doesn't acknowledge my communication. That's the worst case scenario. That is like, you do everything right. Worst case scenario, nobody's listening or paying attention.

But I'm saying a great way to get out of it is, like if you're trying to go Roboto or you're trying to end it, a head nod, a simple head nod. Yeah. You know what I think the biggest mistake? mistake, not what I did. That's not going to happen that much. But is the, I mean, that would be so egregious, but you'd be sick of that person well before that point. Yeah. But what does happen is no one wants to take charge because they feel like, that's the worst. Yeah, because like, oh, I don't want to stop them from like, but when it feels right to you, you may be wrong. You know what I

mean? But like, hopefully everyone will have a grace, like, when it starts to feel right. When it feels right, yeah. It's like when you're at someone else's party or someone else's house and it's like, it feels right to be like, well, I had a great time. You can go. Just go. But you got to be careful. No, be polite. But if you do it too early, then you get the like, oh, oh, I guess it's

Well, no, we don't want to be in the middle of the bass solo and just be like, can I guess, you know. Right. Of course, yeah. Right. But in general, feel free to take some, if you're feeling it, like you said, take charge with that. Yeah, and I think in Jamstessions, part of the reason it keeps going sometimes is like there's always going to be a little bit of a later,

like there's a lack of familiarity. You're not going to be like, you know, people that you really know, I love that when you're having dinner with like several people. And like everybody just, you know, like just sort of gets up, man, this was great. And like there's not even a thought. It's usually when you don't know people as well. It's like, wait, should I get up? I don't want to, you know.

And so you have to understand the situation that you're in. You're not going to have that perfect exit or entry or whatever. And that's okay. But you want to just get in the range of it and you want to communicate that to each other so that it can feel like that still to the. It should feel like a natural human interaction. Yeah. Human interaction.

Like right now, you'll hear it. Peter, this was so much fun. Alex, thank you for the great question. You missed it. Yeah, I wasn't paying attention. Important part of communication. Went straight past me. Great question.

Hope we helped with that. Ciao. Again, if you want to leave us a question, go to you'll hear it.com and leave it into the speak pipe. Speaking of the pipe. You know what? Maybe because we haven't been mentioning this, we've had a little bit of a...

Well, what y'all getting up to? Maybe because we haven't been leaving, asking for questions, or something more important, possibly. To the very end to find out what that is. You'll hear it.