You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - It’s time for Sunday School (and scales and chords..)

Episode Date: September 26, 2024

Looking to infuse that Gospel sound into your playing? Well look no further because our very own Peter Martin is going to divulge his tricks and tips on the topic. Unlock your FREE Open Studio trial to become a better player today.Looking to drop a question? Want to listen to the audio pod? Look no furtherhttps://youllhearit.com/Have a question for us? Leave us a SpeakPipeCheckout courses from Adam, Peter and more at Open Studio🎹 Head over to our YouTube channel for a better look 👀.Follow us on Instagram

Hey, Adam. What's up, Peter? You know what this is? Major scale. Good. What about this? Mixilidian scale, domic scale? Yes.

What about this? Diminus scale? Yes. What kind? Half hole? Very good. What about this? I don't know.

Project yourself six days into the future. Today's Tuesday. So, Friday. Sunday. Sunday scale. Sunday courts. Get ready for them. Hallelujah.

Hey. I'm Adam Manus. I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to the You'll Hear It Podcast. Music Explored. Explored. Brought to you today by OpenStudio. Go to Open StudioJadioJazz.com for all.

Jazz lesson needs. That was quite the journey. Was that too sing-songy, Peter? Well, it was, you took me on a journey somewhere. I don't know if I needed to go, but we went. The intro is half intro for the podcast, half vocal warm up. Oh, good. Yeah.

La da da da da da da da da. It's time for the podcast. When I was a kid, Peter, I used to sing. in the church choir. Did you know that? No, I didn't know that. I did a little church choir swinging. Swinging. Singing.

And I did a little bit of elementary school choir. I was kind of a star in my elementary school choir at the community school. I still have fantasies about joining a choir because I miss singing in a choir. There's no better feeling. I sang in the Juilliard choir as well. It was required of all piano majors. It was required. Reak.

Oh, thank you so much. Caleb, timestamp that. Oh, my gosh. So good. Time stamp for removal. No, no, not at all. Peter, today we're talking about... You're ready for lunch, aren't you?

You're ready for some lunch, aren't you? I am kind of ready for some lunch, but I'm more than that, I'm ready for some nutritious musical information. Ooh, I like that. Some delicious scales and chords. Peter, you've had great success... From above, perhaps?

It's all from above, but you've had great success recently talking about adding some gospel influences into your jazz piano playing. Right. It's always weird to have success in an area that you feel totally unqualified and under-trained and underdeveloped and not really what you're known for.

Yeah, you're not a gospel pianist by any such an imagination. You're a great pianist. Well, TBD on that. We still got time. The clock is still running on that one. But like many great musicians, you're pulling from all of these sounds

that you've heard your whole life. And this is one of them. And it's something that people have been really clamoring to hear you talk more about. And you've really developed this way of talking about this particular group of notes, which when you first introduced this a couple of weeks ago, I was just so mind-blown. It's a hexatonic scale.

Yes. And it is really changed the way that I'm thinking about, specifically triads in a key. Like, this really changes the game for picking triads in a key. And so we're going to talk about that scale and the chords and what you can do with that today. Yeah. And then I want to layer in something that you showed me just the other day, speaking of fancy words like hexatonic, which would be diads, because I just sort of discovered that. Just to be clear, I didn't develop any of this.

This is just something that I noticed. Yeah. And this is a sound that I like to kind of infuse with my jazz playing or whatever. It's like an influence. You know, it's like a way of saying something. I know. And so this is not about like, this is how you play gospel play. This is how you get a little bit of that flavor, a little bit of that sound into your pop playing or your R&B or your jazz playing, whatever.

Classical. If you grew up an American musician, you know, black church music is so ubiquitous in American music. Like one of my... Very influential. One of my all-time greatest influences is Ray Charles. And so you can't take the church out of that playing. That's right. And so I think me and a lot of people who love Ray Charles,

you just kind of pick that stuff up that he's doing from church, even though I've never played as a church pianist. And so we're not saying here, like, this is how you go play a church gig on Sunday. No. That's not what we're experts. Well, you could. It just depends on how open-minded the church is, you know.

But this is, I love the way you think about this, man. So let's talk a little bit about, some of these terms that we're going to be talking about. So first, the first one is a word that you mentioned called the hexatonic. Right. What does that mean? Well, it means, you know, like when you're putting together some IKEA furniture and you've got those little... Akea?

Akea. Akea? I've never heard of any of my own. Ikea. IKEA. Well, I'm not of Nordic extraction, as you may be. No, are you? I'm from the north, yes.

Oh, you guys. My people are from the north, yes. But, you know, you've got that little hexatonic wrench that you need. that has six sides to it. That's all you need to know about it. This means a six-note scale. We've got a pentatonic, you know, of course. Someone fact-checked Peter on if it's a hexatonic,

if it's a hex wrench or not. I believe it might be. Hexatonic? It's not a hexatonic wrench. A hex-rinch. Yeah, you never heard of that? I thought you're from the country, man. I thought it was an Allen wrench.

Maybe that's the same thing. Yeah, maybe so. So, yeah, it just means a six-note scale, right? Yes. So when we look at B, and we're going to be looking at most of this stuff in the of B-flat major. I don't know why, just because we're in here

messing around with that and I like it. It's the same in every key. But you've got your major scale, of course. And then when we talk about a seven-node scale, what would that be called?

A septatonic? I don't know. Sounds like a septic tank. We don't want to call it that. A seven-note scale, you might say, no, that's an eight-node scale. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven.

I believe it is a septic. Yeah. Or, yeah. One, two, three. But the point is, like, how many notes you have in the scale, once you get back to the root, in this case B flat.

We don't count it again. So we got one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, one, two, three, so that's a seven note. A pentatonic scale, which is common, one, two, like a major pentatonic, one, two, three, five, six, root one. Yeah. He's got a glimmer in his eye. He's got knowledge. We'll get this. So I just Googled like, would it be septatonic?

Guess what the name is for a seven note scale, the major scale. Sextatonic. No. I'm going to give you two more guesses. Septonic. No, that's close, though. Major scale. No.

Okay. Heptatonic. Hepatonic. So we've got Pentatonic is five. If you're a Hepathalete, that's seven, right? Seven. Yeah. Pentatonic is five.

Yeah. Petsotonic is six. Yes. Heptotonic is seven. Of course. And octatonic, like the diminished scale. Yeah, octetonic is exactly. Yeah. So the important ones, obviously hexatonic.

Hectatonic is important, although we've never, we didn't know that. Wait, which one? Hexatonic. Hexatonic. Or heptatonic. Heptatonic. Heptatonic. This is how.

unimportant these terms are. I've been playing the seven-note scale my whole day. He's never heard that name before. But you got it so excited with your little Google over there. Well, you just say a diatonic or major scale, right? Yeah, exactly. Or a dominant scale, whatever, regular scale. It's amazing. Right. But the pentatonic scale is

super used. So this is almost like a one-note extra. You know, I like to think about these scales is how do they relate to something else? So if you look at a B-flat major, well, let's go ahead and throw that up there. The B-flat. Okay. So we got One, two, three, four, five, six, no seven. You know what's funny is, so while this is a heptatonic scale,

a seven notes, no, this is a hexatonic scale, a six notes scale. I actually think about this, you mentioned taking things away, like, from the seven note scale. Yeah. I actually think about this more in line with like a pentatonic scale plus the four.

That's what I was gonna say also. Exactly, taking away or adding. So, yeah, like, that'd be your major, your typical major penitonic scale. one, two, three, five, six. One, two, three, four. Yeah, it's good. I like that a lot.

But I think in terms of the function of this, what I started to see with this kind of, you know... Well, hold on, we're getting there. We're getting there. So you're taking this scale now. Yeah. And you're not using it as like a scale to improvise with. You could, but you're using it to make some chords.

Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And to make some melodies. And to make some root melodies that you're going to build some chords off of. I got you know what I'm saying. So what is that? look like. Can we see the next slide? Okay. Slide number two. We don't know what that is. We're interested. Oh, key of B. Flats. Oh, yeah. So try it. So we got triads. So first,

before we even go there, actually go back to the scale, just one more time, because I want to clarify this diads thing, because I just learned this. So don't be scared if you've never heard. I've heard the term diets. I literally learned all kinds of okay. Yesterday what that was, what that made. Just imagine a two note. Yeah, D-Y-A-D-S is a dyad. It means a two-note cord. It sounds like some kind of microbiome situation or something weird. nasty. Gross. Full of P7 diads.

Have you checked your diad levels if you've got microbiome? Your lipids and your diads. But in terms of, I don't know if these are still considered diads, but like when you stretch it out to the 10th, I think technically anything that's two notes played at once is a die.

Okay, so like if I look at this, that's playing that, you know, in unison or an octas. And then if I stretch it out, and then play it up there, that's where this gets interesting. I'm just playing the scale moving up diatonically in both hands. So you're doing just skipping that.

Really nice. We'll see a lot of these. Yep. Very cool. Let me try it one more time. That sounds great. Yeah. And you can certainly,

you can certainly just put them right next to each other with one hand as well. Well, that's, uh. Yeah. Yeah, there you go. That's actually pentatonic, I think. No, this is, but that scale going down is your, that's your scale. Oh yeah, you're right. No, no, but it doesn't have the fourth.

This is A-flat. Oh, right. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's Strasn-N-the-Neat. He uses Peter's scale here on the... Not Peters. I love it when the playing comes to it.

That actually... Yeah, well, it's good to know, just like we play it. So, yeah, so basically, we're going to build up. If we look at slide number two now, we'll see how we take that as a melody. So we've got the top, starting on the third. Do do, do, do, do, do, do, do. Or you could go like the second time, do D. And basically what we're doing is we're taking triads.

So you're like skipping a note. We're just using whatever inversion. We're switching between that second aversion to first inversion. We're going one for one, four, one, four, one, four one. Right? Yeah. So it's like the equivalent of, we're using the melody of that Sunday scale.

So we're going... Yeah. Because we know a lot of gospel and church music. Yeah. You know, that 4-1-141, super important. And that's with B-flat and E-flat, but it looks like number two,

you can do the same thing, but with the B-flat and the C minor. Exactly. That's how I think about this, actually. Yeah, and that's a little bit more of the modern, not even super-modern, but more sort of gospel-y type of sound. but it's also a combination of them.

Plus the triad pair is two. That's a true triad pair because those two triads, B flat and C minor, they make up your hexatonic scale here, your Sunday scale. Exactly. And you can use either one of these with the roots moving up

the Sunday scale as well. So if I'm going... So I go, like I'll do number two, that's the C minor, and then that's the B flat over D. That, if I use the C minor, is like an E flat major six. Or if I use the E flat, it's of course

just E flat and then E flat over F and then C minor over G or E flat over G. And then we've got some nice, you know, move possibilities or whatever. Mooh possibilities. But it's like it didn't work, but I just played it anyway.

It all comes from that. That's really great, man. Okay, cool. And I mean, the applications for this. So by the way, with the dyads, too, you could also just take, like, the tops of these. Absolutely. Yeah, especially number two. Yeah.

I love that sound where you're moving up this specifically. And the main thing is just we're not playing any A naturals, any leading tones until we do, right? So, yeah, exactly. Like when we get to five going sucks and then that's a big deal when you go. to that. You never even have to go to that, no, that seventh. And then there's one more leading tone you could use. F-sharp would be like the second. Yeah. Yeah.

To get to the minor, yeah. It's almost like a five of the relative minor. Yep. Let's see what we got next, because I don't even remember. Peter, you wrote it. You wrote it? Come on. It's like.

Where's it going? Oh, Caleb. What is happening? Okay, so this is just kind of what I just explained. But we're combining now. No, we're not, yeah, we are combining. So we've got like one to the two, the C minor. Right.

And then we got the one over the D. And then we go to the four. Yeah. So it doesn't have to be like one four, one four, one four, one. And so these are so good. And so if you have a chord progression, it's like, how are you using these when you're, how are you putting these in your playing?

I guess we could save that for later. Triatic work. You can use this scale to, create your triad patterns and move around basically in the key of B flat. Yeah, exactly. Because like if I was playing it more of a jazz situation, I might be thinking like, well, let's just say like a 36251. So you've got D minor to G7, C minor seven to F7. That's going to be like jazzy versions of that, right? But if I'm using more gospel chords, it can be like B flat over D. Good. So good. But these are almost all triads as

the foundation. Oh, you can see my hands there. Can we see the next slide, please, Kaelan? He's like, yes, you may. Mother may I? So this is now we're going to add some moves to the equation. Yeah, this is just different ideas. Same melody, right? Or same melody root movement at the 10th in the left hand. So that's a nice sound, right? And then the G minor over E flat, it's really an E flat major 7. But if you think about these triads, and even this is a triad,

Right? The B flat over D. If you think about this, this is G minor. It gives you all those different inversions, even though you're playing up. It's like a little bit of a different way of like a jazz way of thinking of it where everything is built off of the root going up to the ninth. As opposed to like... Yeah, yeah, yeah. The B flat over F and then B flat 2.

Because those just kind of work as the voice. Beautiful. Yeah. And all we did there was we just dropped. The B flat over D. Oh, we drop that down in the two. And everything here is from that one exotonic scale. Yeah, and it delays it, and it makes it when you go up to the E flat major,

the G minor over E flat on the fourth, it gives it that major seventh, which is the third of the tonic. So we're not playing it there. It's like a little more special as opposed to you've already played it, right? So you're advancing the voice leading a little bit. Should we play a little bit? something with this, Peter? And just see you to play around with it?

Yep. F-O-R-R-A. It's such beautiful voice-ating, you got to go. Such a lovely bed. Tell me this, though. Yeah. So we're talking about, you know, we're not, again, telling people this is what you would do on a church gig.

So how are you adding this to your jazz playing? Like, what are you playing when you would add this in there? Yeah, so one thing is, like, we were talking about, but you also have, you know, they can go contrary motion coming off the tense, or can go contrary motion off. So it could be like... But how I would add it in is like... Say I'm doing like an introduction for a ballad, whatever, in B-flat.

So, you know, typically in jazz, we're thinking like... Like setting up some kind of progression, 360. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is all great. But this would be more like, you know, maybe I play around with like... So I'm getting acclimated to the... So it's just like two tracts. I've got B-flat over...

D and then G minor over E flat. Amazing. And then, oops. You know, playing around with that. Yeah. Then E flat over F. And then the stuff that's not in here, but is kind of the next level.

And this is what we're getting into in the chorus. I just started recording it, but it's like approaches, right? So half step below where you have different choices, but familiar areas. So it's B flat major. So G minor, we know that's an important area. of minor. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So if I go, that's just that, that three to four with G minor triad, E flat triad,

C minor triad, those are all different triad choices I have. And then I want to go five and I want to go to the G minor, right? Instead it's just going straight there. So what is that approach? It's actually, it's a five to one. Yeah. But I'm using that leading tone going up. So it's like a D over F sharp.

And when Peter says five to one, obviously the G minor is the sixth chord in B flat. but we're tonicizing it for a bit. We're making it like a temporary tonicizing it. We're vodka tonicizing it. I don't know why. We're half-tonicizing it by putting a five chord right in front of it. Right. Secondary god.

And then, like, a lot of the stuff that works in jazz, if you apply it to these more, more like, I don't want to say rudimentary, they're more basic in a beautiful way. And I think they're kind of better sometimes. But like a gospel chord is often better. As far as like throwing extensions and stuff on chords. Yeah, for sure.

We don't need all that. So if we just think about the G minor as being like a B-flat triad, Indian version over G minor. Yeah. And then let's say I want to go to the four. Yeah. Because we know that's important.

So we're at, what are our errors? One, four, and relative minor, right? Right. another half step below approach. But I'm just going chromatic, but with the trias. Let's go. And then that stuff, this is all trias. Yeah.

You're just going down like a... C minor, B flat, C minor, exactly. But over the E flat. And these are all... Same scale, melodically. It's interesting, too. You're starting on that C there. Yeah, because that's like

the little bit diatonically, that's like the little bit outside of the one. Because you're like, you're throwing it out and coming back. Yeah. And also note on this when I'm on the minor, the relative minor, and on the four and on the five, I'm using the Sunday scale I'm using as B. it's kind of like the blue scale. I'm not using separate scales for each one. I'm just using.

That's a B flat scale. And then I go to the three and then the G minor. I mean, like I could use the Panatonic on the G minor, but it's almost the. exactly the same. It's like the G minor pentatonic without the E flat. And then if I want to go and get like a little bit more, like that's a two, but as opposed to maybe before I get the two dominant before I go before I flattening. So that's just going instead of the five of the four, which is Suss B flat Suss to E flat major. I'm just throwing in a, this is another approach from below, sharp nine flat 13.

but going straight to a track. That's the other thing. Like, we'd use this in jazz, but we'd normally go to that. Right. It's actually works. And then I like doing fourth stuff with the tune to give it a little bit of a...

Yeah, so some of the tribes are perfect force. Yeah, but that scale is really... And then as you learn this, practice it in different ways, you know, of course, in all your keys. This is just like breaking it up. Yeah, take it through all 12 keys. I'm telling you.

This is really like the way that he... It is a little different than just straight pentatatocetion. It works on this. Even that, it's all triads. Flat over C. Flat over D. I'm going to work on my Strausburg and I'm going to throw this stuff in there. It's all up in there.

For real. It'll fit. Until next time. You'll hear it. Come back. Come back. Come back. Come back.

Come back. Come back. Adam just looked at me. I said, we don't need to come back. And then he said, every time. So, yeah, we're going to do it every time. Can we do that one more time with the Strausberg? I feel bad about how I left it.

One more time. This is for my own sake. For when? What are you talking? That part. Can we just do that part one more time? Just the very end? The whole part?

I just, can we go out on some Strausburg sign on the knees? Okay, yeah, gotcha. Got it. Yeah. Up every time. My Strausberg, man.