You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - Jam Sessions - #142

Episode Date: June 25, 2018

Today, Peter and Adam discuss some strategies in attending and hosting a jam session. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

I'm Peter Martin and I'm Adam Ennis and this is the You'll Hear It podcast Daily Jazz Advice coming at you Good so how you doing Adam? It's doing pretty great man I'm kind of in the middle here of some you'll hear it recordings Got me a lecois. Is that how it's said? La Croix? I seriously doubt it but man the lime ones are delicious. Are you fishing for a Sponsorship deal here? Dude if we can get a LeCroy sponsorship for this podcast I'd be so happy I'm that kind of shout out to LeCroy hashtag lequois That's right if you got any extra cases

a pompomouse across and around. Nice. Please send him our way. Right. Well, good. So today we're going to listen to a listener question submitted at you'll heara.com through our advanced voice messaging

voicemail system via the internet. It's like NASA designed. Okay, let's hear. Okay. Hi, this is Zoom from Vancouver, Canada. I'd love to hear an episode all about jam sessions. Maybe, actually two episodes, maybe one episode on how to get the most out of a jam session

as a participant. And maybe another one on how to host a jam session and how to organize it and how many tunes do you need to know and how to organize the musicians and the set list and all that stuff. So thanks for listening and maybe I'll hear it. All right, cool. Thanks, Zoom. I think this is Zoom's second voice message that we're going to answer. is our friend from Vancouver, BC, British Columbia.

Big shout out to Canada. We love you. Neighbors to the North. So this is a great question. I think we are only going to do just one episode on it. We don't need to break it up. We can kind of cover both. Well, if we broke it up, I feel like we'd be skating.

It'd be a lot of filler. So I think we can cover it all in this one. I agree. Yeah, yeah. Well, let's start with how to be a good jam session attendee. Yes, that's the place. Because that's really where you should start. I wouldn't recommend anyone to organize or lead a jam session.

Not until you've been to something. if you haven't come at it from the other side. So, okay, yeah. So what would be the most important thing, Adam? You think about being a jam session participant? Well, the first thing I think to realize is that you are kind of a guest in someone's gig, right? Like someone has a gig. And even if it's a jam session, it's still like someone is being paid to, hopefully being paid to host it and to put it together.

So you have to, you know, respect their rules. There is etiquette. There's probably some universal etiquette to jam session. sessions, don't skip the line, you know, unless you're like a famous person. Right. And a certain amount of just general humility might be in order for approaching this kind of situation. Sunglasses probably not on or not down.

No, no, no. I've definitely worn sunglasses in the same. Oh, really? Yeah. I don't like, I don't want anybody to see my shifty eyes. But no, you know, etiquette could also change from session to session. So, you know, just get to know the session. It actually would really help like tip number one, go with someone who's been to that session before.

Yeah. Because they can kind of be like, oh, yeah, that's Richie. And he runs and talks to him. You know what I mean? That sounds like a jazz musician that would be at a jam session. Hey, Richie. Hey, Richie, can I sit in? Forget about it.

Richie, you know, kind of blue. Love that album. Yeah. So, and perhaps even if you have an opportunity to observe a jam session, a lot of times jam sessions are regular occurrences, weekly occurrences or monthly occurrences, at a certain club, you know. So maybe you would just go and listen a few times before you bust out your horn. That's great advice.

Go hang for a little bit. See what they're playing. Who's playing? How good everybody is. If you can hang, if you're too good for it. You know what I mean? Yep. You're never too good for it.

You know what I'm saying? Often not good enough, but never too good. And I think just that could also give you an opportunity to observe the flow of how the jam session happens. You know, for me, I got the chance to go to some great jam sessions. I'm sure you did here in St. Louis because there's always been, that's kind of part of the culture of the music here. Yeah, we're lucky. We've always had some kind of good jam session. And a lot of it, I think, is because musicians St. Louis love to have other people come up and play their instruments so that they can leave, actually physically leave the gig sometimes. Yeah,

one of our favorite drummer friends will just leave, he'll just go home. And I'll be like, yeah, I'm going to go pick my drums up tomorrow. Classic opening up to a session. That's right. Yeah, yeah. Other than, you know, kind of learning the particular sessions etiquette, you know, make sure that you talk to someone in charge before you sit in. You don't want to just go up there. No. And just be like, all right, I'm sitting in now. Talk to whoever's in charge.

Make sure that you are not skipping ahead. There's, you know, you can't, like with saxophone players, sometimes there's a line along the wall of saxophone players. Then you can probably jump in, right? Yeah, maybe. Yeah. But pianist and drummers, you wouldn't know. How would you know if it's, if you're a bass player and there are other bass players

is sitting there hanging, you know? Yeah. And I think that, you know, normally the time to talk to somebody. that's in charge the session is on the break. Not during the tune. If the pianist is leading the session or if the saxophonist, I mean, maybe if it's a horn player and they're not playing, you could kind of come over to them.

And if you're slick about it, you could sort of have your instrument there and kind of make some, even if it's like open jam session, make some kind of motion kind of like, is this cool, you know, where you're pointing, you know, before you approach and just sort of put your, insert yourself into the situation.

Totally. And then, you know, once it's your turn, once you're up there, some things to avoid doing. Yeah. Things not to do. Things not to do. I always, even if it's like a session and I know everybody's a really good player, I always pick like a super easy jam session too.

Right, right. I don't get into this like, try to, I'm going to try to outcall you on a session. That's ridiculous. Serenity in G flat. Yeah, that's so silly. Like we're here to just kind of like play and feel each other out and try new ideas. And, you know, it's a networking thing too, right? So like I'm not going to try to like up anybody.

No. On the session. No. I'll cut you on the gig. That's right. But I mean, having said that you doesn't have to only be sat and all and take the A train or a blues. I mean, it can be there's probably and we should probably talk about this, you know, sort of top.

A hundred jam session. Yeah. There's probably, yeah. And I think that because if you are going to come up to a jam session, you have to have at least a basic repertoire. I mean, don't come up and you can't. I mean, it's just like going to play pick up basketball. It's open to everybody, but you have to know the rules. Yeah.

And you have to at least be able to pass a little bit. Even if you can't shoot, you have to be able to do something where you can fit in. And maybe you're not elevating the team, but you're not pulling the team back either. I would say that you probably could get away with knowing 20, if they're the right tunes, 20 of the right tunes to go to the champ session. Right. But I wouldn't go if you didn't know those 20 tunes. I wouldn't either. I wouldn't either.

Because you're, well, I mean, if you're a horn player, I don't know. And maybe a singer is the only one that could get away with this. Yeah, I guess so. a singer he or she could, you still have to know some tunes that all the musicians know, but you don't have to know everyone that they, because normally the musicians, and I'm sorry,

I don't mean to say singer is not a musician, I'm just trying to make that distinction here. The vocalists would normally be given the opportunity to pick the tune because they need to know the lyrics and everything. And, I mean, there might be some tunes that we would figure most vocalists would know and maybe suggest to them, but they're going to have the right to sort of say,

I want to do it in this key. I think that's fair. Another thing to consider, which has happened to me, several times at jam sessions, especially when I was younger, if someone calls a tune that you don't know, that's not necessarily a bad thing. No.

And that's not necessarily you should be like, no, we can't do that. Right. You know, if it's a tune that you've heard of before, or you've heard, but you just have never played it, be like, all right, I'll hear it. I mean, the name of our podcast is you'll hear it. Because it's said often at jam sessions.

Yep. Of like, you know, what is this thing called love? You've never played it. You'll hear it. Right. You know, jam session tunes are called jam session tunes because usually they're easy enough and common enough that if you've heard them,

you should be able to pick them out. So take it as an opportunity to learn how to do this. It's something we all have to do all the time, even at a professional level. Absolutely. I mean, I never forget. I learned softly as in morning sunrise, which is definitely a jam session too.

And shame on me, I didn't know it, but I was relatively young, and I was actually sitting in on a gig, invited sitting in on a gig with Winton Marsalis' quartet. And he kind of was like, Do you know, he called me up there. And this is like a concert.

It's not even like a club. And he said, you know, what do you want to play or something? How are you? I was like 15, I think. Oh, geez. And he sort of said, I can't remember if he said, you know, what do you want to play? Or do you know, softly's a morning sunrise? And I had heard it, but I didn't really know it.

I mean, I maybe knew that it was started in C minor and that was about it. But because, and I can't remember if I was just embarrassed that I didn't know it, or if I was like, I think I'll be able to hear it. But basically we played it. And Witton was real cool. He didn't like, for it. He wasn't saying like, yeah, you know this. You should have known it.

And actually, I should have because that's not a challenging jam session sitting kind of tune. But the thing about it was I learned it after a couple of choruses. Now, Winton was kind of like, you know, I think the saxophone player played the melody and Witton was kind of, you know, whispering some of the chords in my ear, which was great. But, I mean, I learned that tune, trial by, like, I'll never forget that tune. Absolutely. And that's the fun thing. And as you say, if you're up for the challenge,

it might not sound great the first couple of choruses, but depending, you know, where you are in the rhythm section, if you keep your ears open, it's a great opportunity to really learn something. You know, you said trial by fire, in a way, it's like the easiest way to learn a tune because you're so like, I don't, all right, I miss that change this time around.

I don't want to do that again. What is that? You know what I mean? You really, that's some severe ear training there. It is. It's a pride thing, right? Like, you don't want to sound bad. So you really focus in on it. I love that. I mean, I actually used that experience and several others like that over the years

to incorporate into my practice routine as close as I could get to that feeling. I was like, well, you know what, if I can learn a tune that fast just out of shame in front of an audience of wanting to kind of know it so I could play a good solo by the time I got to me, there's no reason I can't do that in my practice. Now, there is sort of the adrenaline and then having, you know, the camaraderie and other people helping you. But I definitely incorporated them my practice routine.

in terms of elevating my expectations of myself into how quickly I could learn things. I was like, you know what? It doesn't have to take me two weeks to learn a tune or something. I can learn it in five minutes. I mean, maybe not completely, but I can challenge myself a little more.

All I need is the motivation of being embarrassed in front of the Whitmarcelis quartet. You can kind of pretend like that when you're practicing. No, and you know, on the flip side of this, though, if you are more experienced and you can tell someone is in the weeds on something, don't be in a hole and, you know, like, berate them or make fun of them.

Analypole? Is that what you refer to? Don't be a jerk. Like, help them. You know, I still do this. When I played a jam session last week here in St. Louis that I was on the gig for, and, you know, a kid got lost on, I forget what it was. It was like something really easy. And, you know, we all tried to help them back because that's like, that's the time we do it.

We're not out there to, like, you know, embarrass other people. Right. But that's where approaching for the jam session attendees. especially the newbie to that session where you want to come in with some humility so that when you do fall about to fall flat on your face the veterans and maybe the people that are actually organizing it are on the gig will want to help you out if you come in all cocky with your sunglasses on oh i got this and then you start messing up you know no one's going to want to help you that's true so so put yourself in a position where you're part of the kind of instant community and camaraderie of jazz musicians and one other thing to add and we'll move on to the hosts

But as a rhythm section player who's played several jam sessions, I would just like to implore any horn players that might be listening to please keep your choruses to a reasonable amount. If there's 30 horn players in line and they all want to play the F blues, you're going to make the bass player's arm fall off. It's actually gets to a point where it can be a little rude, I feel like. If we're going for like 30 minutes on one tune, like, come on, man. And I just want to translate for my friend Adam here by him. him saying please and implore what he means is if you show up to his session and do this one more

time he's going to take a st. Louis cardinals baseball bat and hit you on the upside of your head okay that's what that's translation well now I'm not a violent person he's normally not but if there's one thing that can push this man over the edge it's true yeah I mean it's just it's just it's really musicianship 101 yeah it's being polite polite 101 yeah um and because jam session is not I mean for for the participant of the organizer it's different because it's not like an organized gig where there's repertoire and you have to fit in in this kind of unusual way and there's spontaneity. But for the listener, you've got to remember, it's still a gig.

Yeah. You know, there's still audience there's there. There's hopefully an audience at some point. But if you line up, you know, 30 saxophone players and they all take 10 courses, they ain't going to be an audience there for long. No, that's what's so, again, this is, I'm sure not just limited to St. Louis, but what's so great about our jam session scene here is all the jam sessions I've ever been to here have somewhat of a listening audience.

You know what I mean? Like the one that I was at last week. at the Cranesburg here in Grand Center. There were probably 25 people in the audience. I mean, more than other regular jazz games. Well, this might be a good time to segue into the organizing of it because that's a great idea for like, if you are the organizer of a jam session

or a gig that turns into a jam session or a gig that includes invited guests up to jam with the band, you have to start from the standpoint of thinking of the audience. Totally. But you can use this to your advantage because it can be a very exciting and interesting. interesting and kind of dramatic thing to the audience if you set this up correctly. So you, as the organizer, I think it's fun to just do the classic, hey, now we'd like to

invite up some friends we have, or if it's an open jam session, you can say, or anybody else who happens to have your horn here and make it a very casual thing. So maybe you play a couple tunes with the regular band first. Yeah. This is just one approach. And then when you do that, to people that in the audience that are not initiated to the jam session thing, or maybe they've heard about it but never experienced. It's like a super cool thing because you're never going to go to the symphony or a chamber music concert and say, hey, if anybody wants to come to jam, you know, so it's like an informal, it's a welcoming thing. And it's a very impressive thing. I mean, the fact that, I mean, that's one of the most impressive things that we can do. We have this shared language.

We have, I mean, it's just like, you know, it's similar, I think, to seeing, you know, when I'm traveling around, as much as I can, I don't do it as much as I used to, but I've always have fun going to pick up basketball games outdoors at parks around the world. Yeah, yeah. And there have been some, like, I've never gone to like the famous ones. I've gone to the famous ones. The only watch. The only one in Greenwich Village would be so fun.

I mean, I've only watched there because, I mean, you're talking about NBA level. I mean, Kobe Bryant goes and actually plays with them sometimes. But, I mean, there's like a great park in, of all places, Copenhagen, Denmark. And every time I'm there in the summer, I always go, they have great pickup games, really good players. And it's so fun to have this sort of shared language of basketball. And then even if you can't speak the same language, you sort of know, I mean,

and then there's little stylistic differences based upon where it is in the world. But it's a very impressive thing. And so I think with the jazz world, in terms of presenting the gig, that's a great thing for us to present to the listener, to the audience, and to be able to say, hey, now we're going to jam.

But it has to sound good, though. Yeah. Otherwise, if it's just sort of anarchy, people are like, yeah, well, this is just some random notes being played. Yeah, that's cool. So some practical tips, if you're hosting a jam session. One thing that I would, always, I've never actually hosted my own jam session, but one thing I've noticed about jam sessions that succeed and jam sessions that fail, the ones that succeed usually have a complete rhythm section

hired at some point, or at least the instruments available. Right. You know what I mean? There's some kind of piano or keyboard. There's some kind of drum set. There's some kind of bass available so that you don't want drummers showing up and there's no drums. That actually happened to me once at a jam session. It was a gig that turned into a session. And a bunch of drummers showed up and they were like, I thought this was a session and I was like, I did too. But I guess, you know, the leader didn't hire drums. So sorry.

And that's kind of a drag. And it's also kind of a drag for, you know, the whole band if there's no drums, you don't, you're not really getting the full experience, I think. Yeah. You know, it's not like crucial. You can't not have a session, but it does make a huge difference if you really want to get the full effect.

So if you're hosting a session, make sure you have a filled out rhythm section at least. Yeah. You know, I mean, ideally you want to have like piano, bass drums, a guitar amp, a guitar amp, in case an electric player shows up. You know what I mean? You don't have to have all that, but that would be nice. Well, and I think that, you know, if you have the rhythm section established at least, if there's a lull, like say, you know, this great saxophone player comes and plays a tune, but then packs up and leaves. And then maybe there's a nice vocalist, but he or she's not coming until a little bit later. And, you know, you can kind of fill in in between if there's a lull with the talent level.

Yeah. Whereas if you're having a scuffle for a drummer or bass player And the other thing is like I've noticed and I've actually I always said I wouldn't do this but I've definitely started to do this When I go to situations that are not necessarily jam sessions But they're more like oh do you want to sit in And they kind of devolve into a jam session I don't like like I like to kind of hear the band first

And it's not it's got nothing to do with oh I'm above certain play I just want to make sure I can get up there and like fit in In a way that's going to be interested to the audience And so sometimes if it's just kind of amateur level, I don't want to get up there and then there's going to be 30 saxophone players and this horrible bass player and drummer and just, you know,

so if there's somebody with me that, you know, I play with her, know maybe we go up there together and then we can at least provide enough because if you get a couple of good players and then some lesser experience, it can be nice still. But I just,

I don't want to be part of something that's not going to be musically edifying to the listener. I'd rather just not go up there. So if you've got that rhythm section in place, that gives you a lot of flexibility. That's great. Another tip for leaders, you know, try your best. It's not always possible, especially at a popular jam session where there's a ton of players, but really try your best

to get everybody in. I mean, that seems obvious, but some people who host jam sessions really just let their friends sit in and that's it, you know, and they'll let them play for four tunes in a row. Yeah. And then you run out of spots and there's three other pianists left. Right. That's a drag. That's not a real session. That's not. I don't think. So you try to be as equal as you can with it. Yeah. And try to, if you're organizing the gig, try to stay at the gig till the end.

That's, obviously. Well, that's asking a lot. That's asking a lot. But I mean, you're kind of responsible. Even if you have somebody sit in and if you're a bass player and you're organizing it and there's a bunch of bass players

for some reason and you have them sit in, you still need to kind of lead things and get up and announce and kind of keep things organized. Just because you hand your instrument over doesn't mean you're handing over control of the session, I don't think. No, that's true.

Yeah, that's true. Cool. Well, we hope you found helpful Zoom and anybody else who might have been listening to this. That's right. We really, really appreciate any ratings or reviews that y'all leave below. Not below in the Apple Podcast. Oh, in the Apple Podcasts.

Well, I get somewhere else, too. It would be comments below. What are you talking about below? Below what? I'm just talking, yeah. Yeah, no, no. Just scratch the whole below idea. I like it.

I like it. We like ratings and reviews. We like ratings. We'll take them below above on the side. On top of whatever you got. You could also go to you'll hearat.com and leave us some ideas for topics for future episodes. Now that would be below. Maybe that's what you're thinking about. That's definitely below. We have, you can ask a voice question. You could also just write your topic in there. Handwritten.

Handwritten. I'm just kidding. Yeah. Caligraphy. And then we're still running our Yule Here at special for our, what's that? I said yes. I'm giving you affirmation. Oh, thanks. Like we're on a jam session. Thanks. Go ahead. Yeah, no, we're still offering our Yule Hear at special for our, our, wonderful. You'll hear our listeners for Open Studios annual All Access Pass. That's every course that Open Studio offers. Any course we've ever made, any course we are about to make, you will get access to for one year. And you could save 10% on that by entering. You'll hear at 10 in the offer code field that check out. Just go to OpenStudio Network.com for more information. I love it. So informative yet organized. Thank you. All right. Well, you'll hear it.