You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - Low-End Theories

Episode Date: April 11, 2022

Join Adam and Peter for a round table discussion with Bob DeBoo and Rueben Rogers about working together and knowing your role within the bandstand! Bob and Reuben are the hosts of the podcast "Upright Citizens", to hear more, look for "Upright Citizens" where-ever you get your podcasts.Have a question for us? Leave us a SpeakPipeCheckout courses from Adam, Peter and more at Open StudioLet us know what you think by leaving a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review, or head over to our YouTube channel.Follow us on Twitter | Instagram

Hey, Peter. Hey, it's a little cramped in here today. It is very cramped. It's very cramped and stuffy a little bit. A little stuffy with talent. Low end talent. I mean, yeah, but they're only playing like one or maybe two notes, tops at a time.

You know they can hear what you're saying, even though you're talking quietly. All right. Let's do the show. Yep. I'm Adam Maness. And I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to the you'll hear it podcasts. Jazz.

Explain. Explain this intro song we've got going on today. Man, well, I can't explain it. It's about 100x classier than our regular one. I just realized that. It's like subtle and like ours is all ridiculously rambunctious. I was like, is that late 90s, Bjork? What's going on here?

It's so classy. I think we're going to get copyright pinged for lifting it. But that's the Upright Citizens podcast. Yeah, that is the theme song to our Open Studio sister podcast, Upright Citizens. We're joined the day by the illustrious host, bassist Bob DeBoo and Ruben Rogers. What's up, guys? That's up, y'all? I got to give the credit.

Where he credits do, Mr. Bob DeBoo came up with the majority of that situation. Oh, at least he laid the ground work. Talking about the theme song. Yes. It's talking about the theme song. The bass work. Yeah. The base work.

We had a lot that we did beforehand, getting to that. Yeah, we were passing back stuff for a while. It was great. And then we landed like, no, your stuff is better. No, no, ultimately, that's Bob playing the bottom line and I just came in the... In my experience, this is a very characteristic Bob. to do boo activity to lay the groundwork for what's going on, which is going to roll in to write what we're talking about today. That's how we do it here. We're just going to fix that for you.

No, wait, wrong one. Wrong one. Something you might be interested in. Yes, very much. Very something. Yeah. Yeah. No, we're going to talk about the special relationship. Wasn't it like the U.S. and the UK that had a special relationship, special relationship between pianists and bassists. And Peter, you were saying right before we started here, like, of course, the bass and drums have famously, like a special connection. But I was about to say, man, I do think that like there's a reason why the bassist, at least in the context of the kind of music we play, there's a reason why the basis is usually between the drummer and the piano.

Sonically, of course, but I think it's also like the basis is kind of that relay between the two. Another way to say that is that the bass is in the center of the band. It is. It's right in the center. I was going to say, I mean, I'm thinking about. Not it just from how it affects me. I'm just thinking. But you know what?

That's such an important thing because physically in the center, like we talk about in the recording studio or live situations. Like I've teased Rubin for years. We've been on so many gigs and they'll have these wonderful photographers there. And then, you know, now it's like you can go online and see it after. It's like, oh, let's see the shot. And, you know, it'll be with, you know, Diane Reeves or Joshua Redman, whoever the kind of is in the, either horn player is in the front and Rubin.

It's always like, that's it. And then like the drums. Everybody shot. Yeah, yeah. Everybody's shot. And Ruben's always got this great look. And it's just like, you know, it's like, how do you all? He's like, you know, I'm at the right place.

I mean, we talked about that with Ron Carter, too, about how he's always in the shot. Right. Exactly. You know, important folks. Important folks. Most important people are in the shot. Hello? Oh, it's consistent.

Super dog man. I like it. I like it. Goodness. But I think, too, I always think about that. And I'm always listening on recordings, especially if it's kind of like classic jazz, like rhythm sex, you know, piano. piano bass and drums, acoustic bass, or whatever.

But the rhythm section, like, where is the bass in the mix? Because I love it when it's right in the middle. I know that there's some cool ways to mix where it's off, but I think that that does follow along with sort of the physicality of having the bass in the middle and the sort of philosophical thing of the bass centering the sound. And to me, it's like great bass players like you guys, you can center whole tours. Like a song, a set, a gig. And even the vibe of like a tour.

It's like something about the personality of a great bass player that really focuses and centers it. As Bob has heard me. That's what we talked about before. Talk about so many times. Whether you realize it or not when you get into the base, sorry, the business of bass. Hello.

New podcast. New podcast. Tringmark. Ruben Ryan. Renwick Enterprises. You don't realize you're not actually. Your job is not just to music. kind of thing hold things together but you become like a somewhat of a social manager also you know

I mean that's kind of your your your job usually most of the bases I know know how to kind of like bring people together in a certain kind of way or at least delegate you know things and whether it be at sound checks whether it be at the airport or whatever I mean you're something to it and uh and I even just getting to know Bob from from you know 2,000 miles away I could tell he has that quality in him already not just from playing the base but that like he can you know or organized and being that he organizes all of our podcast. But, you know, I mean, that makes sense, though, given your role in the band, right? You're involved, literally most of the time, in every single beat, right?

You're involved with the foundation of every single chord. It's your relationship to the melody that dictates what we often do, you know? And so that's such a role where you need someone who's, like centered and steady and selfless and selfless it's the most selfish selfish or selfish selfless self I couldn't hear which way you say

I know both kind of base plays let's be honest oh hello but it's not fun unless you're playing with someone I mean really this involves almost anybody that you play with especially in the rhythm section I think but I think especially yeah it just doesn't work

you gotta have someone holding it down yeah yeah yeah I know I know even one bassist too end up stopped playing the bass because he realized he wasn't selfless enough. He didn't have that. He became a drummer. Really? Yeah.

So, I'm a selfishness. Exactly. Big shout out to all our friends, the drummers. No, but it is so important to know, like, because even within the range, it's not like, oh, it's just one type of personality that can succeed as a bassist or pianist. But I do think that there's these certain

sort of characteristic personality traits that, you know, you're really able to infuse the music with that. If you don't already have that as a person, it's going to be very, I mean, you can try it, but it's like swimming upstream, you know, it's going to be a lot harder. You better believe it. You better believe it. Definitely. But now, okay, so we've talked a lot about on this podcast and otherwise Adam and I about kind of like what we listen for in the base, what we listen to get from a bass player, like what we feel like we should be given. But I'd love to hear from you guys. Maybe we could start with you, Bob. Just in terms of like, what are you guys listening to?

because I know that you are playing. Like, we think we're controlling everything as pianists. Oh, a pianist control freak? Talk about a personality trait. We're aware. We're aware. We know. I saw I put that one out there.

No, but I mean, like, we think that we're involved in everything. But really, we're not because we stop playing sometimes. In fact, sometimes the magic can happen when it's like saxophone and bass or just the vocals in the bass. And that's really the only instrument. So truly, you guys are kind of the ones that are there. So you have to listen to everybody. I know there's a lot going on. But what are you kind of listening to specifically from piano in the moment to kind of negotiate and inform what you need to be doing?

In the moment, it's always situational. It depends on who you're playing with for sure and what the song is. But, yeah, beat by beat, it can pivot any direction. But, you know, it was a revelation for me the day that I realized that a piano player, and I won't mention who told me this, but it was a big revelation to me, was mentioning. to me that, sorry, I was starting to pick up to kids. See, this is very typical basis. They're going to get a lot of them. I got to go. They're getting

kids. They got concerts. I was saying, it was a revelation to me when this piano player, I really looked up to this individual and I really still admire their playing. Thank you so much, Bob. It's not about us. It means a lot coming from you. You got my Venmo, right? But when

it was revealed to me that pianists are listening to us just as much as we're trying to listen to them, but really a lot of where the harmony is going is coming from the bottom up and that our bass lines from note to note really can affect where the harmony is leading and how that's related to what's happening in the melody.

But it took me a while to realize the power that we wield as bass players. You know what I mean? From one note to the very next really means so much more than I realized earlier on as a bass player. You always think about time, our relationship with the drums,

as you mentioned, you know, like where we're connected with all of that. But for what I'm hearing, what I'm listening for in a pianist is maybe what they're, if they're listening to what I'm doing, first of all, because that's no fun. Are you sometimes thinking yourself as pianists are playing some complex chords like, I mean, just play the right note. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Or why that substitution? Or where did that come from if we're not vibing on the same thing? Right. Right. But, yeah. I'm listening a lot. I'm listening just as much. actually to rhythm from a piano player as harmony too,

because that really affects so much of what we do as far as anything, Rubin, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this too, obviously, but anything extra rhythmic inside of, say, a walking line, you know, like what the piano player is doing. I think ultimately the way I summed up, I was thinking while you were speaking, like, what, what I was saying? Being a very sensitive or the sensitivity,

or what's that brometer for a pianist, you know, being able to, not just in rhythm, but also in the way they comp. I mean, mainly the way they comp, maybe. You know, the way that, you know, the sensitivity and not having a wide range of being able to go from little to big or whatever. And also just not just the, and also the quality of the chords that they play, you know. Being able to have like a timbre of sounds, like, because you have an orchestra at your hands, you know. and you are able to just know a lot, since we mostly play single notes,

we can only affect the music on a certain way with this one note usually. We can play two notes a lot of times, but one note usually, but you have, you have 10 fingers, you can do whatever you want and really have like, you know, create moods almost. You know, no, not almost.

You create moods with just... That's what the gig is for us. You know, like that's our main role. Putting your fingers on the keys. But you mentioned something a while ago. Actually, the art of not playing anything at all

at all, I think is the biggest is your biggest asset being that you affect the music so much when you're playing. I think a lot of pianists don't realize how much they can actually affect the music by not playing anything at all and how it can raise

the level of everything once you do start playing. Even just a small amount of silence is a big thing. And I will tell you, I'd say 96% of the piano players, they don't do that. You know, or that I've listened to, don't do it. Because I think it's that, of course you want to play, you know,

but to have to have that kind of selfless outlook that, you know what, maybe the music doesn't need anything. Doesn't need me right now. How can I affect the music once I start playing again? I mean, so often it really doesn't need much more than what's going on in the bass and drums. And you're absolutely right. And just because we feel like we hear something that's good and interesting, and maybe it is, it doesn't mean that that is better than playing nothing. That's right.

Because of the overall thing. And I think that's why I love these discussions between instances, and we were talking about earlier on UC, like, it's almost more important to learn, like, what is it? What is the perspective of a basis? Like, we want to think about, like, what is it from our standpoint? We already know what it is from our standpoint. It doesn't mean we don't have stuff to learn about playing the piano, but it's like to be able to hear this, and this is a revelation for me,

and I do know this stuff, but it's so important to hear it again, because it refocuses, like just the idea that you guys, the bass can, as you say, by leading your notes, you know, send us to other harmonic areas, but you actually can't do that on your own. You can suggest something here,

but then we've got to like actually, so I'm sure there's times when you guys are like, and when we don't play it, I know Ron Carter, Maestro Carter, mentions this in his course with us, it's kind of like the same thing like what you're saying, where you're listening to see are they going to be listening. I don't think we do that that by.

We're kind of like, here it is, listen or not, and where you guys, because you do have so much control over but you can't do it on your own. And really, we can't either, but we think we can because they do solo piano gigs. It's a great point. Peter, we consider ourselves to be the only harmonic instrument up there, but they're also spelling out harmony.

It's just almost in slow motion. Like they're spelling it out over the course of a measure or two, whereas we can be. horizontally instead of vertically. Right, exactly. And so that's definitely something that as a pianist, you can like take a step back. Yes.

Like, okay, what are they shaping here? Yeah. You know, for me, I'm, my first thing when I listen, you know, when we play together, Bob, which we do so much, I'm so grateful for. But I'm, the first thing I center in on is the quarter note or the half note. Like, where are you laying it down, you know? And then, like, the harmonic aspect of what you're doing is kind of secondary. But you really got me thinking, like, I can, like, definitely, you know,

add to that in my listening game. Yeah, it's always a conversation too, which is the best, you know, as long as we're having that conversation. But I got to say, I'm envious. You talk about laying out and strolling as pianists. I love when bass does that. Like when the time seems right to where we can get away with, get away with doing that. It's going to happen one way.

If you lay out, you're going to lay out. You're like the last people to do it. Right. And I always, I think about that from time to time. And I'm like, no, I shouldn't do it. I'm going to do it. You know? Yeah, yeah.

What do you think about? about that like laying out Rubin I mean yeah when it when it's when it calls for it I mean I think you know there's an intuition that comes with it I'm usually it's not for every song yeah yeah usually when it does that or you just wait till you know come in a little later yeah not like what happened one time in Japan man yeah do you remember that no no tell the story tell this is a podcast of stories I think you tell the tall tale this sounds like a tall tale in Japan you don't remember well you'll hear a crowd have said this on the upright citizen I might have said that tune into the ones where you talk about

me. Oh, you're not talking about it. For those of you, for those of you just joining us, Bob and Rumen host their own podcast, Upright Citizens. Go ahead. There'll be a link below for that. Subscribe right now. It's our Open Studio's sister podcast. Ruben continue, please. Well, there was one time we were in Japan with Diana Gray.

Diane Rees and Gregory Hatchelan was playing drums at the time. It was like 27 years ago. Anyway, it was swat back. Late 1980s. And we was, let's say we were a jet lag. I was definitely jet-lagged. was the tune

and were you playing and he told me I didn't have to do that before. But then we got a message saying we need to get a little more. Okay. No, you know, not that much. I got it.

Be natural. Sorry. I can't help. I have a low, salty voice. Anyway, I was sitting on my stool because Peter was

setting up the tune with the great Diane Reeves and usually Greg and I will come in on the bridge. Right. The bridge

happened and I just happened to be sitting. very comfortably on my stool and I was asleep. No, no way. I was asleep. I don't remember this story. I'm totally unrelated to my piano.

I was asleep and all I heard was and all I heard was, move it, move it. And it was Mr. Hutchinson, he didn't come in because he was waiting for me and he was like, he was like, and I just, I realized with my eyes closed that what was happening and I just stood up and we both stopped playing together. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, man, it was the most relaxed entry you've ever had in your life. Man, and just this actually is a great story about the awareness of Gregory Hutchinson. I know. And how in, like, in everything he is. Like, that guy listens to everything. Right, right. It's probably hard to miss you sleeping on stage. I was tired.

I was jet lag. I was jet lag. I was dead lag. Okay. And, I mean, if anybody had ever wanted the question answered of can Rubin Rogers playing his sleep, evidently, yes, he can. He can play a whole good. He can play the sleep.

Oh, man. Watch him do it. Also, you might just reconsider, Peter, your own setups to tunes. It was a little more subtle. Maybe a little more subtle. I need a little surprise or some accent in there. Yeah, sorry. Something.

A little boring. If I have any faults, it's that my intros are too subtle and lullaby-like. Apparently, lullaby-esque. It was a long time ago. A long time ago. I was young time ago. I wonder about kind of something similar to this, which is like, so when we're up there and we are, you know, we're doing this game of listening to each other

and listening to the drums and the soloists and whomever is out front. But like, you know, the communication thing, I think especially between, for me, for bass and piano, like, I don't know, maybe it's just me, but like I rely on the bass so much to, like, guide where I'm going to go with things. You know, like where you are in the range of your baseline, like dictates kind of, you know, what, not the range of the keyboard, but what kind of chords, like what kind of vibe I want to set, the density of chords. Certainly the rhythmic feel, you know, if you're in the middle, if you're pushing,

if you're behind, that's going to, like, tell me a little bit of a story of what I can do and where I can leave space for that. So I'm wondering, like, I don't, I'm trying to think of playing, because it all happens without us really, you know, consciously doing it. But, like, I'm trying to think of, like, these moments, like, there are all these, for me, like my favorite musicians to play with especially bass players, like there's always eye contact. There's always our heads

are in the game in the same way. I'm wondering if you find that as well with pianists. It's like it's not even something that you talk about beforehand. I think some people might get the impression it's like, oh, they're working out, you know, substitutions or the feel or the, you know, I'm going to go with thick chords here. None of that is true. It's all kind of happening

with eyebrow raises and nods and just really the vibe. It's not even that sometimes. It's even more subtle. I'm sorry, Bob, you have something? No, please. Go ahead. Because something came to my mind just not that long ago. And it has stuck in my mind about this player who's now Mr. You know, he's Mr. Showbiz.

He's big time now. Maybe two times I was able to play with John Battiste. Right? Grammy Award winning. Well, no, six Grammy Award. Yeah. Whoever. Forget that dude.

Anyway, no, but no, he's this sweetheart. But he's a, he's really, yeah, sweet and nurturing,

like, like a big teddy bear, right? Amazing energy. Right. It's exactly who should be leading that way. Exactly. And what I,

what I remember mainly is when we played, that he was fixated on me. It felt that way, at least. Like, every time I looked up, he was just like this. His eyes are there.

He's fully there. Engaged. Like, 127% engaged. You know what I mean? It was almost like, I'm a little uncomfortable. You know,

but he was like that for the whole gig. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I don't know exactly if, yeah, that's the way it felt, even if he wasn't all the time. But that communication makes all the difference.

It's not even about how you're playing, you know. Right, right. It was interesting, but that always, I'm always reminded of that moment just because he was so engaged. He was like, you know, and anyway. I remember Bob and I, we were at college at the same time. We were actually, we had like a trio at the new school. Wait, did you guys go to the new school? I always forget.

Oh, you can. Yeah. No, but I remember once talking to, and this was like 2001. Yeah. And I remember asking Doug Weiss, bassist, great basis, Doug Weiss. Like, who's your favorite piano player to play with and why? And this was like in a class. I don't even think I asked it.

Someone else asked it. And he was like, he's like, my favorite piano to play with is Brad Meldow. And like this is right when like all of us, new school kids are like, oh, Brad Meldow, tell us more. You love that guy. Yeah, of course. And of course we love Brad. But he was, we were expecting him, yeah, like, you know, the time and you can play in seven easily or whatever. And he's like, he's like, I remember Doug saying, and this stuck with me, he said he's by far the most.

engaged pianist I play with the most aware, always with you, always looking, always listening to everything that I'm doing as a bassist and that makes everything more comfortable. And that was his answer to why he liked playing with Brad Melda, which is not what we were expecting. We were expecting lots of flashy things that Brad can do.

But it was the communication. And I thought that was really interesting. And you know, Doug's been around the block. Yes, right. But it's so funny to add to that. This is about a compagery man who I've been playing with for probably the musician I play with the most pianist is Aaron Goldberg. And we are bestest of friends, but I always remember there. It has been some times where Aaron is so keen into what's going on.

There was a sometime when we were younger that he would be, and these areas are big already, that sometimes I'd be like, oh, well, you know, I'm going to go for some stuff. And as soon as I would do something a little out of the norm, he'd like, look up. Yeah, he was on you. What's good? At least that's his look would just change right away like And I'd be like, oh, oh, maybe I shouldn't be doing that.

Oh, gosh, all right, I'm listening to me. You get it about it. And then I go back and doing it. And then I just organic, it was like, I'm going to try it. And he looked right back up. I'm like, what's going on? I'm like, why I just do this? Like, on every note I'm doing.

So for those of you that can't see this, let me just subscribe. It's a pretty good image. We should probably take a picture. Rubin is very squirrel-esque as he said, what? Like his hands going up very quickly, like a squirrel that said attention. Yeah, exactly. As if a nut just fell off a tree.

What? What? What? What? But man, no, this is, like, for all of the students here, are people who want to get better at the music. Like, you often think, like,

okay, I just need to get more voicings or, like, get more pentatoc scales. That's his generic loser-peer. No. Hey, I'm going to keep my voice. I'm a stupid piano player. That's his generic voice. That's my P.

Oh! Oh, out. Boom. You say, he's stuff your neck. What you say? Oh. Collaborate.

No, but, but, so the idea is like you would, you just, if I just knew more, if I just had more information. But I think what's, what's to learn from this is that it's not just the information that the greatest musicians in the world, you're Ruben Rogers, you're Aaron Goldberg, who's your Brad Meldow. That was like, they consider it, you know, equally as important as if, if not more important, that this awareness, this listening, this being engaged is the thing that makes you play better. I mean, realistically, practically, right? Well, I think it brings up a great point that I think I might have hit on something. Get ready, fellas. Wait, it was a fleeting thought.

There it goes, no, but this idea, we're talking about bass and drums and relationship. In some ways, I think if we're able to sort of really be observational in a way that can be helpful, hopefully for folks. We kind of know at this point or should know as pianists, like what really works and what's important for a basis in a way better than you guys. And you guys, kind of the way you're describing pianists, sort of better than us. Like, we think what we know, but it's very hard to be objective about our own role.

And so, like, your story about... You're in the weeds in it. Yeah, about pianists. It's like, that's great stuff for us pianists to think about it to kind of realign and make sure and clarify. Because I think, you know, one thing I've noticed about you, Rubin, over the year, that's been so beneficial to play with you. And I'd love to hear if you even think about it like this, is when you have a great ability to be on the bandstand.

And this is why I think it's so important that the bass be in the center when it's a great bass player, to kind of let everybody know when it's time, when things maybe are getting a little bit sloppy. Not that we ever get sloppy. But I mean, just like you have a really subtle way, you've done it with me, you've done it with Greg, and just different people we play with Diane.

with it doesn't matter the level of player but it's and it's not you never it's never about one person it's about all this but you have a it's like a way of playing and a kind of body language where it's like let's step this up like let's let's have fun but like something might and maybe sometimes use something with the drums that you want to do but that kind of it's almost like a conscience of the band and I think because you guys are playing all the time that's such an important thing because you're sort of the last line of defense I'm sure some drummers would and there's times when it could be anybody you know but I think in general you know proportionally,

statistically, it comes on the basis, and it's something that I hear you guys do, and McBride does that, and all the great bass players I've been around, but it's kind of a thing, like, yeah, we want it to always be friendly on the bandstay,

but sometimes, and you'll be like, sometimes be like, yeah, then it's kind of like, make sure, what, yeah, okay,

yeah, you're back on track. If you do it all, you do that whole thing with a, just with like a look or even a way of, you know,

a way that you play something. I think that's important. We support. each other. But it is something that I admire you guys for taking an outsized responsibility for. Now that we're on is, you know, give flowers why they're living. You're not going to like what I'm saying right now because this is recently. Also that you can, you have, you keep a great game face and the things don't stir you up much. Period. I feel like on the back. Oh, I wasn't complimenting so you had to compliment me back. But go ahead.

No, no. It's a great competition. It's something because, you know, I mean, I think as musicians, we can wear stuff on our sleeves or in our phases and that kind of like in deter everything. You know, case in point when I was stepping all over your toes in, you know, some months ago. I already forgot about that. Yeah, yeah. I didn't, I didn't forget. Yeah. We were playing in the two.

I don't know what you're playing. Denver, Colorado, February 17. 7.m. 7.18 p.m. No, we were playing. We were playing a song, ballad, you know, and the different key. I just didn't remember. I didn't remember.

I was like, oh, what key? And it was Peter's shining moment. And I just stepped all over. I'm like that. You know what? And he just played through it like it was done. I was like, you know why?

You know why he was so cool about that? Because while he knew it didn't sound great at the time, he knew he had something to hang over your head. That's a great feeling. I love it. But in general, I think you have a great game face. It's like, oh, I appreciate it because I'm just saying I know plenty of pianists who just don't know how to keep it together when stuff isn't, you know, goes a little, you know, array. From having mess things up myself many times, that's how I've developed that, really.

I mean, it's like, because the stuff that we think is being, I think that's part of the maturity of just playing individually for a long time, but also together in different situations and in a community situation is that to the audience, almost none of that stuff, it matters. Like, when you say walked all over, even to me, it didn't, I mean, I remember it was a little, but it was a little, but it was. was so much smaller because afterwards you came at the intermission one like man I'm so I was like I couldn't remember it was such a small we have all these stories and lore about all that kind of stuff no one cares nobody cares it's like the bickering the jazz musicians do it by

oh can't cultured better than wing chute no this was particularly bad though I would never even think about it's pretty bad but I'm saying that it's but I do think that's also part of the ying and the yang I think groups need that because your standards are super high and they really are.

And so like for what I was saying, that comes in handy a lot of times because when we're maybe, you know, not even going below, but like we're starting to, because that's when you're really good at it. Like it's just starting to get a little bit too playful or a little bit at the time. You'll be like, you know, so that's an important element to have. We don't need everybody to have it all the time because that doesn't work. But having that kind of personality. And I mean, Bob, you've done some great things when we play together.

I know I've talked with Adam about this. Like you have an ability to do a similar thing where you're infusing joy into a situation. And sometimes, like, we're supposed to be joyous all the time. I think as pianists sometimes, like, we can get so thick into the weeds of like, Amsharp, what's the voice? The Mampson, Mite. Yes, you mean. Whatever.

And, you know, we always need, like, you're very good at, like, keeping the level high, but also tugging our, you know, coattails a little bit like, yo, let's, let's keep the vibe light and let's keep it serious, but, like, let's keep the vibe happening because that's what's important to the audience. And so I think all these things work together. Absolutely. You know. Thank you. Well, Rubin, Bob.

Thank you so much. being here, go check out their podcast. Upright Citizens. Yes, link below. There's a link below to subscribe. Yeah, man, we wouldn't have like four compared to their 700 folks, but. It's over $8.50 now. Oh, gosh.

I was just, oh, coming up with a random number. Oh, God. It's quality. It's quality and quantity. It's not really. This is mostly quantity. Mostly quantity, especially the early days. Especially one through 700.

Take out the archive. No, thank you so much for having us on. It was a pleasure. It's great to have you guys. And I am a fan. Obviously, I've texted you both about your podcast. Oh, yeah, we know. No, you text this.

We're like, yeah, there was a... Wait, wait, we're not going to tell that until this will get people to be on it. Because we're also doing a live here. You got to go to the YouTube channel to find out about that story. And plus, I have a bonus of Brad Mellon. I'll tell, too. Okay. Well, until next time.

You'll hear it.