You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - Lyrics

Episode Date: May 21, 2019

It's another day of SpeakPipe, as Peter and Adam answer one about the importance of lyrics in jazz music. Wanna send a SpeakPipe of your own? Check out the bottom of the page at http://www.openstudionetwork.com/podcast.Let us know what you think by leaving a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review, or head over to our YouTube channel and leave a comment for this episode.Interested in more jazz advice? Go here to browse our catalog of jazz lessons and courses available for purchase.Follow us on Facebook, Twitter & Instagram at:https://www.facebook.com/heyopenstudiohttps://twitter.com/heyopenstudiohttps://www.instagram.com/heyopenstudio See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Hey, Pete. Hey, man. Are you listening to the words I'm saying right now? No. I'm Adam Maness. And I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to The You'll Hear It Podcast. Daily Jazz Advice coming at you.

Coming at you today's episode is sponsored by Open Studio. Go to Open Studio network.com. For now. For now? Bush. Secrets. Secrets abound. You can just Google Open Studio, jazz lessons.

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and search Google. So what do we got today? I think we were talking about. You know what? You told me 20 seconds ago and I totally forgot already. So refresh us. Lyrics, buddy.

Yeah, of course. Let's come on, man. We got a speak pipe. Actually, this week, five speak pipes. Oh, come on now. That's right. So this is a speak pipe from Burke. Hey, Peter and Adam.

My name is Burke in Grafia. I'm a songwriter who spends a lot of time, perfecting lyrics and conveying emotion not only with music but the combination of music with words. I've worked with some musicians who really listen to what's being said through the lyrics before they play a single note, but some players pay no attention to the song, only the changes. For example, take a tune like Days of Wine and Roses, which is a very sad song. I sometimes hear bands play this at a very happy uptempo swing and it ruins the song for me. Without understanding lyrics, the tune is just a sterile, mathematical set of chord changes.

Who, in your opinion, are the best players when it comes to really connecting their playing with the emotional content of the lyrics? Thanks again for your podcast. I really enjoy it. Okay, somebody that comes to mind is Ella Fitzgerald. She really is a great player that connects the... She really connected to the lyrics. Nancy Wilson. Nancy was good, Sarah Vaughn. Yeah, I suppose he's talking about instrumentalists.

I mean, you could say someone like Keith Jarrett, but I think of Keith Jared's version of Days in Wine and Roses. It's very happy. Well, we're going to talk about that because I don't think that necessarily. I wouldn't agree that that denotes somebody that doesn't know or understand the lyrics because just because you know the lyrics, it doesn't mean, and they are sad in the days of wine and roses. But it doesn't mean you have to play the tune in that way. They're sentimental. I don't know if they're, I don't know.

See, this is the thing, right? Yeah, how literal do we have to be? And if I take the information that the music of Days and Wine and Roses provides me, that does not give me a feeling of sadness. Exactly. You know what I mean? and I hear what he's saying about, and it's a great point about understanding the lyric. And I try, like, especially if you're playing with a singer,

like you have to tell the story in the song. Right. Right. Well, I think that that's kind of the point is that it's okay to play different. We, by necessity, should play differently when we're playing with the actual lyrics and we're not there. That's an adjustment. We make just like if you have a drummer and you don't have a drummer

or what the instrumentation is, that's a major part of kind of our song. strategies to doing it. So I don't, you know, we can and we will talk about ways to navigate that. But I think to pretend like we're going to play a song exactly the same when we're hearing the lyrics, when the listeners hearing the lyrics rather, as when we, when we don't, I don't think is accurate, is helpful. Yeah, I agree. And it's, it's hard to think about it like, do I, should you learn the lyrics to every single song that you do from the Great American Songbook? Yes. That's a, I guess you should.

Ideally, but... Ideally, but... Ideally, but... That's a big task, though. Do I know every lyric? No, to all the songs I play. I try to get a general... I mean, I definitely read lyrics,

and I try to understand what the song's about before I approach any song. Yeah. And I think certain songs, um, and certain types of songs lend themselves to, um, you being able to glean more information about how to play them.

For sure. Like, I'm thinking like, you know, a tisket, a task it. I mean, if you know the lyrics, I mean, it's light. It's very lighthearted. Um, and I don't think that there's,

some sort of great depth, even if you know the lyrics that you're going to be able to bring to playing that whereas something like, you know, Embraceable You. I mean, like, that's the way that the lyrics link up with the melody on there. Look, you could play that song, Great, probably never knowing the lyrics or not speaking English or whatever. Yeah. But wow, what more can you bring to that if you do know the lyrics? So I think that this is not going to be kind of an all in one solution. And when I hear people like, you have to learn the lyrics. I mean, of course, that's good. But it's not always necessary. I mean, ideally. Yes, please. Come in.

No, seriously, for real. Ideally, you should learn all the lyrics and learn the verses. Yeah, and learn every tune in every key. Yeah, well, because sometimes that, you know, the verse, like I'm thinking about T for two. Like the verse to T for two tells the whole story of the song before the, quote, unquote, chorus even comes in. Yeah. But I think about Bud Powell's version of T for two is that bad? Exactly.

You know what I mean? Like, it is a bit of a mathematical formula, but now it's its own thing. You know what I mean? When I love what you set up now, like if anybody of any of our lovely listeners or haters out there has a problem with what we're saying, write into us and tell us why you think Bud Powell is sad, okay? And that'll explain things. No, but I mean, there is a bit of a history. There is a bit of a precedent of taking what is essentially the sketch of the tune, right? The music of the tune, the bones of the tune and making what jazz musicians have done now for decades and decades and decades, which is making their own statement out of those bones. you know, I don't think Bud Powell's version of T for two is bad at all. No. And it doesn't convey the romanticism of the actual lyric.

No. You know, I mean, if that was the case, Blossom Deary's version would be much better than Bud Powell's version. Right. Because it actually romantically tells this story in a cute way, which is very, you know, T for two is a cute title even. Yeah. But Bud Powell's version's killing.

Exactly. I mean, look, that's always the proof. We always talk about, listen, number one. Yeah. And that's the proofs in the pudding. And I think that we actually don't. I mean, it's good to know the lyrics, but then even if you know them, you don't want to do the thing. And I know we've both probably encountered this in arranging.

Sometimes you can know the lyrics too well, almost. Or not know them too well, but try to apply them to the arrangement too much. Perfect instance on Misty. I remember coming to that point because I did an orchestra arrangement for Diane Reza that tune. There's that point in the lyrics, and a thousand violins begin to play. You know, I was about to do that and write. And then I was like, you know what? I'm going to actually, I had a really thick violins right up to that point.

and it's just kind of an antidote to the lyric. I had no violence just for that measure. Good for you. Yeah, because I'm like, it's too easy. That's too easy. That's, it's too obvious of the lyrics. And I think that there's a certain mystery that, of course, when we play a song without the lyrics, you're already taking that element away. So there is a, you know, playfulness or something.

There's different ways to deal with that. So just because you know them doesn't mean you have to apply them in the most obvious ways, i.e. play a sad lyric song in a sad way. And I mean, look, our music, jazz is so much based upon the blues. Like, we know that's the foundation and the roots of this music, a big part of it. And the blues is the ultimate, like, dichotomy of, like, major and minor, happy and sad. Like, you cannot say, like, all blues are sad, really? Or all blues are major, minor, you know.

So it's like that element and that kind of juxtaposition, I think is important. Yeah. And I, you know what? And, Burke, I don't think we're saying here, you know, you don't have to learn the lyrics or don't worry about it. I think you, I think as a rule, especially if it's something you're going to perform to make part of your own, to record, really understand as much as you can about the song you're about to perform. Yeah. For sure, because it's only going to make you understand. But I don't think there should be a hard and fast, like, it doesn't kill me when someone interprets a song differently than maybe the story even, you know, would suggest.

Yeah. And I think it's, too, it's like one of those things that, you know, the goal is to, you know, it's very much like learning tunes in all keys. That is so helpful, you'll get so much out of that. But at certain times, you'll get more out of it, and it's not realistic to always do that. You know, it's kind of like, yeah, we're supposed to floss every day. If you're going to miss one day, though, don't miss the day that you eat ribs and you got all that. You know, there's certain days that flossing is more important than other days, right?

And I think there's certain tunes where this is more important. Like if someone was doing a love surprise, a love supreme. Oh, come on. That's my jam. I'm going to be a little pissed. Yeah, exactly. For sure. Or lush life, you know, in a happy way or whatever.

Well, Love Supreme, that's pretty easy to learn the lyrics because you just sang the entire lyrics to love Supreme. You know what I'm talking about, though. If you totally change the vibe of something that has such a strong vibe, but a lot of these Great American Songbook tunes, let's be honest here. But you know what? Even changing the vibe of a tune until it's not really cool until somebody figures out a way to do it and it sounds good.

I know, man. Yeah, totally. But, you know, to the point of who, Burke. Burke. Yeah. To Burke's point, maybe in order to know

that you're going to change, you've got to kind of know it. You got to know it. Yeah, I'm not going to fault again, Keith Jarrett for his version of Days of Wine and Roses because it's a little peppy. And I think of Keith as being a very lyrical player. And there's got to be a general connection between lyrics.

I mean, I know they mean two different things, sort of, but there is an inherent lyricism in lyrics and melody. It's never just the lyrics. Then it's just poetry or writing or whatever. It's that connection.

with the melody that that and you know some of these songs have a stronger connection a stronger body that's true that's true yeah uh and he was asking i think he was asking about players that we thought really was it played in a lyrical way or were yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah i'm thinking bill evans for sure very very lincoln uh you ever heard of a guy named herbie hancock herby hancock master of the lyric yeah brad meldow i think plays to the lyrics yeah yeah we're really hitting on piano players i know well my first one was best alifist jero Master of the lyrics. No, but I would say Ben Webster is someone that I listen to to interpret a lyric.

Clark Terry. Yeah. Unbelievable at interpreting tunes into the lyrics. I think Miles was like you think about like Miles Davis, my funny Valentine. Totally. Man, you really, I mean, talk about getting the spirit of, of that tune and that lyric. In that regard, Cannonball. Yeah.

One of my favorite interpreters. Basically all the good players. Is that what we're saying? But it's part of being a good player is to understanding the lyrics. Yeah. So in general, yes, learn the lyrics as much as you can. but I'm not going to fault someone for taking a tune to somewhere new. It's like a little bit of column A, a little bit of column B.

Exactly. And then think about how you're applying it. And then you can be confident once you know them to apply them. And sometimes in an ironic or seemingly counterintuitive way. Yeah. I do like his point, though, and I think it could be reiterated that sometimes we get, as jazz musicians, we get disconnected from some of these older great American song that someone just says, go learn there will never be another you.

Now, that's not a great song. It's fine. The lyric is fine. but it's not like very deep. You know what I mean? But I think it is important to his point that we get disconnected to that. Think about if you were to play a modern pop song.

Yep. And you wouldn't, you know, something that you grew up with. You would want to convey the spirit of that song because it's something that you know really. Yeah, a modern song like, you believe me, I mean, you remind me of my Jeep. Yeah, you really want to convey that.

Did you just drop an R. Kelly anthem? I'm very anti-R. Kelly now. I doesn't put it out there. I do remember that song. Good. Yeah, thanks, Burke. Yeah, man. It's a great question.

It's a great conversation to have, too, with each other. And keep preaching the lyric thing. Yeah. And you know what? Actually, I'm realizing, and I was kind of the beneficiary of this, just because a lot of the stuff I heard growing up. And, like, I learned a lot of songs from vocalists. Like, this is a way where you can kind of just learn it at the same time.

I was going to say. It's a very organic connection. Aside from, like, the first standards I learned, you know, that Judge Justin's taught me. A lot of standards I learned. playing with great vocalists. Yeah. And it's easy then because you know the lyrics so well, you know. Exactly.

And you can think about reference recordies, even if they're, say, like, if you're a pianist or saxophone playing, it's like, I love Sonny Rollins version of this tune or whatever. Think about the reference record. And by reference, I mean like the one that you're going to learn it from by year. You know, because we try to preach staying a little bit away from going straight to the real book or the sheet music, right? So you're going to train your ears a little bit and you're going to learn it. So maybe you've got this great version of, I don't know, no tunes really coming to mind.

But it could be anything, and you're like, that's your version. Maybe think about a really good vocal version of that. And learn it from that, even if it's like, oh, I want to learn Sonny Wallens version. Because then you're going to get that lyrics organically in the flow with the melody, which is where it belongs. Yeah, it's awesome. Good. Cool. All right.

Well, I'm looking forward to this week. This is going to be fun, man. We've got a lot of speak pipes. Man, it's just the beginning. We're going to be totally, like, listener driven up in here. If you want to send us a speak pipe and we encourage you to, you can go to you'll hear.com. You can leave us your message there. Don't sleep on the ratings and reviews.

They're very helpful. Don't spread in the word. No, I mentioned before I tried to sleep on one under my mattress one time. It didn't work out as well as I was hoping. Until tomorrow. You'll hear it.