You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - Meet Eric Harland

Episode Date: July 15, 2022

Today we're crossing over and giving you a taste of our sister podcast "Upright Citizens". On this episode, hosts Bob DeBoo and Rueben Rodgers interview the incredible Eric Harland about life and music. Have a question for us? Leave us a SpeakPipeCheckout courses from Adam, Peter and more at Open StudioLet us know what you think by leaving a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review, or head over to our YouTube channel.Follow us on Twitter | Instagram

Happy Friday, you'll hear it listeners. This is Caleb Kirby. We got a special episode of You'll Hear It Today, so stick around. Okay, dokey. So on this Friday, we're actually going to highlight our sister podcast, which is Upright Citizens, featuring Bob Dubu and Rubin Rogers. They have an amazing episode that came out in May that was interviewing the legendary drummer, Eric Harland, and I would love for y'all to hear it, and maybe you can tune into their

podcast as well. So without further adieu, here you go. Welcome, welcome one and all to another edition of Upright Citizens, Everything Baycentric, at least a one stop for everything base centric. Hello. So, Bob, how you doing over there? Hey, what's up, Rubin? Doing great. Great to see you.

And this is Ruben Rogers speaking. And today we have a very, very, very, very, very, very, very, is that special guest. What could I say? I mean, he's one of my best friends. You know, he's a beautiful soul in this music, in this world. Brother. I mean, yeah, there you go. We are brothers.

There we go. There we go. But let me finish the accolades. Are we just friends? True, true. That's not. Are we just friends? Let me finish by introduction.

Okay, cool. I love that this is getting worked out in the podcast. You got to, y'all got to sort this out. All right, cuckoo. I mean. I won't take a finish. Here we go. I mean, there's not even accolades.

That's not enough accolades I can give this brother. I mean, you know, we've been playing together in the past 25-ish years. Actually, maybe like 23 because the last two years, a little asterisk. Anyway, I mean, he's a master in time. Of our time. Of our time. I take that. So, anyway, enough of that.

I mean, one thing I want to say, I don't like to say, oh, he's played with such and such and such. I've stopped doing that now, Bob. You know why? Because I realize people should be judged by the body of their work, you know? And the people that we are, you know, Revere have large bodies of work. And usually, you know, when you say you've played with the Betty Carter's or the Charles Lloyds or the Kenny Garrison of the quartet, that's just a blip on their radar. When you have, you know, artists like this man here, you know, his body of work speaks for itself. Just Google his name and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Here we are. The great Eric Harland, everyone. Thank you so much for being here today. Really appreciate your time. And I know that you and Ruben have spent, as Ruben was just sharing, y'all, y'all go away back and have spent a lot of time on and off the stage together. And I am just so excited that y'all are here together to talk about, you know, talk about stuff, talk about some. music, hopefully some bass-centric type of things, but obviously y'all have done a lot of recording together, a lot of stuff on the stage. And just to catch people up, of course, Ruben

is saying, you know, a real quick Google search will show like a long 10-page thing of everything that you've done. But I just wanted to just to highlight some of the things that you and Rubin have done together really quick, too, y'all recorded recently with some recent records with Lionel Duque, like Close Your Eyes for 2018. Some really big. big important recordings to me and to a lot of my peers as well, especially like Walter Smith 3rd, casually introducing. That record flipped my mind around like crazy when I heard that. And a bunch of the Aaron Goldberg Trail recordings too. So just got to start off by saying I'm a huge fan of your work and y'all's work together. So this is very, very cool for me personally.

So thank you. So y'all have been playing together over the years in many amazing groups. and y'all have a vibe together and an interaction that just supports each other really beautifully. Eric, can you share what it's like playing together, what it's like playing with Rubin, or what it is about each other's y'all's musicality that you think puts you guys in these situations where you work so much together

where you get called upon to play together? Hey, man, look, I can put it in a bunch of different ways, right? first of all in layman's turn Rubin is just warm like he's just he just knows where you are

and I you know I love that like I'm like you feel like you can just hug Rubin like he's just he's just so lush you know

like he just you know he's in you and you're like oh my goodness thank you you know but in

you know for bass players out there that don't understand that you first of all you got to live some life to get to that aspect of yourself.

The technicality of movement is that, one, he's visually, okay, one, he's visually looking. I'll separate these terms. He's always observative of everything that's going on on the stage. Like, you know, it's hard pressed to find base players that are looking at you where you're playing. That means that they're completely visually observing

at the physical mechanics. I try to teach this to drummers all the time. I was like, yo, everything is muscle memory. So it doesn't really matter how soulful Rubin is or how he feels. He still checks in. It's like, okay, what are you going to do today? Like, I know that today might be a different day. And if your arms or your limbs and it's in a different spot,

because I've seen him play with me, but I've also seen him play with Greg Hutchison. I've seen him play with various other drummers. And I've always been curious. I was like, man, this dude, not curious. Well, I am curious, but I, you know, I'm trying to find the best way to say this. I've observed the way that he's visually attentive to what's happening on the stage. And I feel like that changes the whole scope.

It's because what it does, it allows everybody to feel like they're engaged in the moment. it's not so much about being engaged into the chart. Like the chart is this thing, and you're going to make some mistakes. You're going to be like, you're going to nail some hits, you're going to make some hits or whatever. But as long as you're engaged as a band,

that's probably the one of the most beautiful things I love about Ruben. Like, he's just, he's like, brough. Where y'all at? There you go. And so the music begins to breathe because we are now a fellow. We're now a community. All right.

So that's one thing. The next thing is his attention to detail. So, I mean, Ruben won't talk about this because, you know, it gets exhausting. But, you know, attention to detail, man. It's like, yo, he can tell when cats, you know, okay, tempo is, it's either in the pocket, it's not in the pocket or it's like, you know, tonality is maybe not there. And, you know, Ruben has a way of being like, and I feel that because I know what that means.

He's like, okay, I'll let this slide. Because I know, you know, you're like, I know, but it's cool. You know, all right, kill him. All right, let's just play this out. And so I feel like that for me over the years have been, has been the treasure of playing with somebody like Ruben. You know what's so funny, what he's saying? That's the, I think, that's the hilarious.

We've never talked about this, but I think that's the biggest thing about your plan, E, is that you're forgiving. You're forgiving. I mean, like, you know how to just, it brushes, you know, especially when something goes kind of like, you know how to just brush it off. Oh, you don't, I mean, even if it's something in, you don't even, It's like, eh, or you could turn a bad situation into a good one. Like, in a split second, I think that's what also separates you,

and that's why, you know, people gravitate towards your playing. And, I mean, hopefully that's the one thing. Hopefully our listeners, you know, especially bass, players, drummers, whatever, can take from that, having that attitude of service to the music on a whole. you know okay you know but go ahead no I was gonna say man me and me and Josh a Redmond

have talked about this and Josh said it best man he was like yo Ruben brings such a spiritual presence to the bandstand and and it's you know and it's not about like you know oh my god it's just

he loves everybody that's on the stage and he respects everyone that's on the stage And that's something that you don't meet in everyone because a lot of people

have judgments and Ruman has his judgment but he's like look man we got to you know for this to transmit we have to be together

you know and that's why he's such a romantic like he's such a you know he's a charismatic cat man you know come on man you know

well don't run from yourself this is an interview this is supposed to be an Eric Carl interview let's get back on you though No, man

But to interview me It's to interview you, my brother Because that's the That one is my heart That one is my heart That one is my heart That's a high That's a high

That's a high thing You got maybe You know Give me a little A little terry eye at here and stuff But no No, no But serious

But you know You know Those are relatives I just I just said Though I mean I could do Some more about you About your

But also I think the biggest thing that I learned From you Is your fearlessness. You are one of the most fearless musicians, people

that I know. You know what I mean? But you taught me that 23 years ago, 25 years ago. You know what I mean? I didn't realize it until like as to years, you know, went on. Okay. You know what I mean? That like, oh damn, you know, because you're like

this is just the way I play this out, where I feel in the moment, except it or not, you'll be cool with it. No problem. No problem. And I didn't have that early on. I didn't have that early on at all. I was like, I got to roll. I got to make sure I do it, you know. And then it was like, oh, well, I can have some of that too, I guess. I mean, it happened unconsciously. You know what I mean? But I think it's direct from just playing with you a lot. You know, others too, but probably because we played so much. So I have to say thank you for that. You know, I mean, I know this is the first time you ever heard that, right? but that's one of the superlatives ever but that's one of the superlatives I think are one of the

the assets that that you bring that's why everybody wants you on their project because of that fearlessness and the confidence you bring in in that fairness fairness which I think it takes quite a while for a lot of musicians to get to you know what I mean and you know you you were able to

really get to that early on in your development I think in your career I should say, you know, yep, there you go. Wow. See, again, Ruben Riley, he leaves you speechless, you know what I mean? Like, he's saying something, you're like, yeah, it's the truth, though. It's the truth.

It's the truth. It's the truth. What else you got for him, Bob? Let's get you back in on this. You know what? I'm here to listen to y'all talk because I know y'all go way back and I want to hear what's going on. Nobody wants to hear me talk.

But what I just heard was beautiful as far as like being in the moment, being fearless, That's things that, you know, Ruben and I have discussed before quite a number of times. I totally hear that when I hear y'all playing. So that's a beautiful thing to put into words. And my next question I was going to piggyback off was, what was going to say, if you could choose three words to describe each other, what would it be? And I already heard superlidates. We'll take notes.

We'll put some cliff notes at the end here. But, yeah, I mean, do you all, when y'all are, say, like, touring or hanging out, do you all have much conversations musically? Do you talk about playing music? like what is y'all listen to music together you guys hang on the road like y'all are obviously friends y'all are brothers well i guess that's the funny thing we we there's so much life stuff going on we rarely talk about music we rarely okay right right well because that's what goes the stuff that we talk about you know that you know might be a little r right here uh you know is what goes

into the music okay that's i was saying are we still oh we g okay yeah you know i mean but also But also that, you know, because we've gone to so many ups and downs in our lives and seen each other's through relationships and me, a divorce, two, and kids and all of it, you know, it's like, it's a lot that goes into the music, you know. Because you say, yeah, so, yeah, I mean, yeah, as we've talked before, it's like, you know, what, what, if you, that the life stuff that happens off, the band stands seeps into the music, you know what I mean? And when you're able to share it with people on a high level, on a consistent basis, it's inevitable. It's inevitable that the music is going to be elevated, you know. We're just fortunate that we're able to do that, you know, we just, you know, whatever connections you can make, you know, out here, you know, this advice. Whatever connections you can make musically, personally with the people that you love, you love to play, nurture those relationships. We say that all the time here on Upright citizens. Nurture those relationships.

Hello. Anyway, moving on. Yo, you've worked with many legends, obviously, you know, the greats, you know, from the Betty Carr, as I said before, Betty Carrs, to the Charles Lloyds, to the McCoy-Tanners, to Bobby Hutchinson's, to the Chris Potters, to the, I mean, Dave Hylance, whatever. Well, yeah, what is it?

the common trend that made them who they are you think being that you've been able to be in the presence musically personally or whatever uh is there a common thread that kind of like you know what this you know of course all them are individuals but is there a common thread that kind of says you know what these few traits okay well first of all i mean dave holland he played with miles davis Because really what I'm trying to say is that Miles was such a genius that he allowed the I hate even use the word aloud but he presented an atmosphere where those that played with him could continue to evolve and evolution is what we call in a way you can call it practicing, right?

It's just practicing is pretty much a lesser term of continuing. You know, it's like be in the continuum. Like just continue to be, continue to do, and check things out and see what shows up. That's pretty much what practice is. It's just now that it's a curriculum in school, it has this really like, you know,

it's like a cat with a heavy backpack and just walking around. I got to do this today. I got to do this today. And that's, we're trying to change what that really means. Because what it really means is to allow yourself to be in situations that are uncomfortable. Because those are the situations that allow you to grow. And, yeah, me and Rubin both can attest from this.

And I'm sure anybody who's listening can attest from this as well. So when I think about somebody like Dave Holland, I feel like that was something that was accessible and allowed. He was like, I'm just, Miles was like, yeah, man, just whatever you got today. I mean, can you imagine that?

Bro, come on, bro. Can you imagine when we was playing trio with Josh and Josh was pulling up them tunes? He was like, yeah, man, whatever you got today, just, just, I'm sorry. Can you just go for it? And you're like, ooh.

Like, man, you have no. no idea the level of traffic I had to go through today. And I would like to express this on the band's then. And so that was a treasure that Miles, I feel, gave to everybody he came in contact with. You know, okay, case in point, you know, maybe that. Okay, I'm not going to say any more about that because just watch the Miles. I mean, Chris Pot. All right.

Sorry, go ahead. No, it's more about, you know, everybody has, I was the yin and yang of who they are as, as deities, as entities that exist on this planet. And that was one of Miles things. Like there are a lot of things Miles did that just wasn't cool. And now I've experienced that with Dave. Like I've seen the influence of how Miles really allowed him to be free. This is why I honestly, I mean, you know, you pretty much would have to ask. Dave personally, but

I feel like, you know, the conference of the Burris, when Dave, man, that was a really great album where they really played free. And then also Dave playing with Sam Rivers. I mean, these were things that came long before Dave even introduced the quintet.

Or even before the quintet, when he played the quartet with Kevin Eubanks and Marvin Smitty Smith and you know, my man, Steve Colman on Alto's And, you know, Steve was all into Embase and all this different information. So you can consistently see that Dave was searching.

But the thing is, who allowed him to search? And, I mean, not even allowed, because a loud just sounds like somebody was in position over here. And they were like, okay, now you can search. It was more like who introduced searching to him. And so I feel like the, The legends of our time have allowed all of us the position to be able to search. So I feel like Chris Potter is who he is because, you know, he played with Red Rodney. He played with Stilly Dan.

Like he was able to be in pretty much these concrete popular bands. But then he also played with Dave. And then he also went through his own personal things. And we all meet up. Joshua Redmond. His father is Dewey Redmond. I mean, you know, you can't deny the legacy of the things that have come before us. Because to deny the legacy of the things that have come before us is to deny who we are.

Who we are right now is, yeah, it's just, you know, it's because of that, you know, like. And so I look at, yeah, I don't know, I look at young kids today and they're wondering maybe why, they are not. And I'm like, it's, it's not a question why you're not. It's a question of who are you in this moment and what are you listening to and what is being given to you. And, you know, sometimes I feel like maybe it's more of our responsibility to, I guess, in doctrine, in doctrine, I mean, that's more of like a biblical term, like in doctrine in such a way to help them to understand, but then I'm also curious to what they're going to come up with. And so I feel like that's something too. And I got a chance to live with Betty Carter and, you know, we would sit on

the stairs and a lot of times she just wouldn't say anything. Like a lot of times she would be opinionated forever, but sometimes she wouldn't say nothing. It was just more about what are you going to come up with? You know, who are you going to be today? Because Because if I give everything to you, then you will not be anything. It's more about you discovering yourself and you discovering what's important to you and playing from that standpoint. It's like what Rubin said before. It's like you're pretty much playing from your experiences. So if you don't have any experience, what are you playing?

No doubt. No. Yeah. Yeah. Not just musically, but in life as well. everything you're bringing as a whole. Yeah. Yeah, come on.

Wow. Yeah. Now, as far as like, that was, you know, that's beautiful to hear. Do you think that that's, you're also a band leader on your own with the, you've released your own records and you have the Messiah Complex band? Is that a similar, do you take, do you try to embody that same type of leadership or, that same what you just described do you you must carry that with you

when you're trying to when you're a band leader dude i lead by following i don't consider myself a leader i just oh come on i want to i want to understand more like people see me and it's like things are happening but it's because i'm listening

and i my and and you know look i'm not going to die you know ruin has been one of my greatest teachers because one Ruben taught me how to listen. I didn't know how to listen before. Like, I was like, ah, man, you know, I know.

Like, why y'all ain't checking this out? Like, you know, hands going. And Ruben was like, man, no, man. People got something to say. And you have to embrace what it is that they have to say. And that'll give you something more. And I know he never told me that. But I felt that in every note that he was playing.

And I was like, dude. Well, I'll tell you something. Okay. I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna touch your horn again. You know, this is great that how we're able to, you gotta get people flowers while they live, right? Right? I think, I mean, I was, you know, I wrote in our notes here that,

I mean, I think you are like a Pied Piper on the drums, the way you lead a band. You know what I'm saying? I think the best band leaders are like Pied Piper. It's like, you know, but you do it in a subtle way. You do it in a way, you, I think the, the, especially when you lead in the drums from, sorry, when you lead in the band,

from the drums. It's a fine line of turning up the juice and pulling it back. Turn it up the juice, pull it back. You know what I mean? Because it's such a powerful instrument. It's such an instrument of presence. And I think the best leaders, especially from the drummers, know how to do it, pull it, lead from the drums in a certain kind of way

that make the musicians feel like they're on your every, like, snare drum, hit, hit, high hat hit, symbol, whatever. And you've, you know, whatever you realize or not, I mean, you have, you know, you always put together, I mean, you know, you have a long-running band, but obviously you have other, as he said, Messiah Complex and other things happening. But whatever you lead

a band, it's like you're like a Piper, you know what I'm saying? And I think everyone appreciates that. I know you're getting, you should have some momentum with the better because of that, right? But I tell you, I have a question for you, though. The bass-centric question. for you. And this is, since it's a base-centric podcast, if you could just break it down in so

many words, what are some of the elements of a bassist that really speak to you? What musical aesthetic, you know, whether it be, you know, the mandatory things, first of all, and maybe the not so obvious things, the mysterious things that would happen that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, just for, just for, just for, just for, just for, just for, just for the youngsters that you can't imagine that, you know, if you could just break it down in simple terms. Well, first of all, that you know the tune. Or even if you don't know the tune,

you're malleable enough to admit that, you know, basically that your pride doesn't get in a way that you don't know what I mean? It's like, it's pretty much an honesty on the bandstand. Because then it allows everyone else to be honest. it's like I feel like when an artist

or when a bassist gets on the bandstand and they're like all right I know what I'm doing it doesn't matter about anybody else I feel like the music is already shut off I feel like everything is done the gig is over

now you're just collecting a check like there's no chemistry and the great bassist as in Rubin Rogers that I play with, it's like no matter what, the envelope is open. It's like, you know what? I don't know how much money is in here, but grab what you need so that we can be a community and so that we can play and everybody can be cool.

And that always made the stage feel great. Now, you know, off the stage, you know, we'd have our complaints or whatever, you know. But it's, you know, what I look for, it's not even what I look for. it's the things, like, I guess what I'm trying to get to is the things that I've enjoyed about the greatest bass players that I played with, is that one, they were an open envelope to whatever was potentially, that had the potential to happen on stage. But that comes with, I feel like you can only get there if you have some level of confidence within the music, or some level of confidence or a major

level of confidence within yourself. Because if you have confidence within yourself, even if you're making a mistake, it really doesn't matter because you know how to connect with the rhythmic or the harmonic atmosphere that's happening within the music

that's given to you. Because, look, we can all be honest. We don't have a lifetime to rehearse. We're not a rock band that can take three weeks and be like, you're going to run this down, you know, for four to five hours, you know,

Monday through Thursday and then we're going to take the weekend out next week, do the same thing. It's like we're jazz musicians, man. And it's like, we come together and pretty much you might,

you get to music maybe a week before, maybe two weeks before, but are you going to really check it out? No, because, man, you already got another full drop box of music that you got to check out

for gigs that are coming up in that minute. Like, it's just like, it's impossible. And so maybe three, two, you know, two to three days before, you might get a chance to look at it, you know, listen to the audio files and get it in your ethos, get it in your, you know, in your muscle memory. And I feel like Ron Carter said it the best. He was like, look, man, I don't practice to be, oh, man, I wish I could.

He said he had to go. I mean, you can look at it. He had a great way of presenting it. He was like, look, man, I don't practice, and I'm probably messing this up, to, ah, okay, I feel like I'm a butcher. But is it something like he was saying that he practiced more technical things now because there's all this music in his mind that he's trying to play already? Is that you saying?

That's already there. He has all the music. He don't even practice that. It's about trying to. to get the tech, be able to be able to, Friday have to come out. You know what I mean? If he can't technically play it, it's not going to come out, you know? Exactly.

To be, practice to be able to be more communicative with the people that he's playing with on the bandstand. Yeah, there you go. And that's probably the most powerful thing that I feel like anybody on any instrument can hear. It's like, yo, you know, if you're practicing to prove to people that you're great at what you do, man,

that's like one day. Right. That's it. And when that day is over, it's gone. But, dude, if you can practice to be more in communion with everyone.

Because the thing about the bandstand is that you're not just communicating. See, also some of the room is really great at. You're not just communicating. with the cat you're playing with you. You're also communicating with the audience. Man, so many people forget about that. They lose touch with everything.

And they're just like, oh my God. And I was going to bring up when you was talking about before, Betty Carter, man, I remember the first time Betty Carter said me, she was like, yeah. So do you want the snare drum to sound like an air condition? and it was playing a ballot

and I was like I didn't even done to me and she was just like yo you got really you just got to think about things you know like you just you have to honestly what she was really trying to say and you know that's my second mom

so I love her you have to be in the moment and I feel like the most successful people and the most and I feel like the people that we all in dear or love the most have an ability to be in the moment.

And I feel like that's something, it's hard to teach in school because you're trying to teach them a curriculum. And a curriculum is not something that's necessarily in the moment. It's just, it's stock. It's like, all right, you know what? Yeah, check this out.

Here's a book, boom, read it, you know. Let me know what you get from it. And they come back, it's like, I read the book, I'm cool. Kill it. Yeah. And you're like, yeah, I mean, I think the biggest thing is, yeah,

what you're saying is, It's real. I mean, it's hard, you know, even though academia is like ruling our lives, it seemed like, you know, I mean, not our lives per se, but it's definitely forefront. I feel even more than than music than live gigs these days. It's like the part of things having to kind of be spoon fed in a certain kind of ways is can be exhausting at times. And hopefully what, you know, a lot of our listeners are hearing that, you know, being spoonfed is not quite the way. It's going on a journey, figuring out like actually mostly things on your own. It's taking the bits and pieces you can from your tutelage to the guides you on your journey. You know what I mean? I think that's the, hopefully that's the nugget that people can take from everything we're seeing right now, you know?

But, uh, anyway. Absolutely. Yeah. Got it, Bob. Yeah. I hear that for sure. You're talking about foraging instead of getting spoon fed. You're talking about going out and finding what you need. Where and looking for looking for stuff, right? Versus the spoon feeding. I hear that that's that's and you got to live life and you've got to be open to life for that to happen is what I'm hearing right now. That's that's beautiful. If I could switch direction just a little bit. Yeah, go ahead. I grew up a big fan of I started off as a drummer and then I gravitated to bass. And, and, you know, and,

And one of the first people I saw live playbass was Les Claypool with the band Primus. And I know this is a 180, but I know that you guys have done some work together. And I just wanted to see if there's any, how did that connection come up? What was that like? Like, did, did Les Claypool contact you to play? Like, what's up with playing with Les Claypool? Man, me, less been cool for like years. man.

Really? We met through a mutual friend, this guy named Robert Maynor Mailer Anderson. He was pretty much an Arthur in the San Francisco highlight scene. He's also a film director. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

I feel like him and Les Claypool met through like the upper ether of, I don't know, of San Franciscan, you know, profile society. I hate to call the high profile society because they're pretty much not like that. Like they're very into the blues of the world and what makes the world tick and how to, in a way, make the world a better place. But somehow they met where they met. And so through being at the SF Jazz and meeting Robert Mela Anderson, I got a chance to meet Robert Claypool. And also like Charlie Musselweight.

So it's funny, you know, I wish I was arrogant enough to say that if you have realness in your heart, you will meet other real people. But I'm not that arrogant yet. I feel like I'll get there at some point, but I'm working on it because, you know, I got kids and a family and I just want them to be cool, you know. But somewhere. me and Les just clicked. And to this day, I don't know why. And then what ended up happening was we always talked about, you know what? Ah man, you know, anytime we get a chance to play, we should just play.

And it just turned out that I'm not wearing a hat right now. I was wearing it early. Oh, that's crazy. It's the Colossil Comedy Central Collosal Comedy Fest. and Les got asked to play and he was like

oh man it's a grand opportunity because you know I've never played in Primus's band and so he took this opportunity to make it

like a Primus you know jazz experience right and it was it was really interesting because he was really open

like we went to like SR and in San Francisco. And we just played. And all he gave me, he was like, look, man, I'm just going to have these signals. And then when I give you these signals,

you know, just know to go, it's like we're either going to go to the next tune or we're going to go to this next vibe. You know, it was just, it was super simple. But it was also, like me and Rubin talked about, I learned all of his music. I was like, bro, whatever you want to play. It's cool.

I have it somewhere in my database. And so we just started jamming out. And I feel like he felt, okay, this is another one for musicians out there. Like learn people's music because it allows them the space to be able to perform to their maximum. Because if you don't know the music, then you give them a limited cachet in what songs that they can call on. And I know it feels like a lot of work, but what else do you have to do? You ain't got nothing else to do, man. You know, stop playing video games and, like, learn some tunes.

Once you learn the tune, then go back to playing the vehicles. Like, it's cool. Like, just check music out. That's your vocabulary. Like, you're not going to get vocabulary out of the world. Like, it's just not going to, oh, my God, vocabulary. Oh, there it is. There it is.

It's just going to come to me. I mean, no, it's not. That's great advice. I wish you told me that like 20 years ago. I mean, I got by, but yeah, I would never, I do some, I would never really learn people's tunes like that. I would learn some, but not like really embrace it. Like I learned that the hard way. Trust me, there's been a couple gigs that I know I didn't get because they were like,

this movie, don't even know my music. All right. I'll take him off the list. I was like, oh, I didn't realize until later. I was like, oh, he didn't call me because I didn't know none of his music. But, you know, but that's real. That's real. That's very, very real.

But anyway, we're getting long on here. I said I was going to, you know, cut it, you know, at a certain time. And so I got one more. I got one more for you. It's so good. I got one more for you, brother. I got one more for you. What is one thing?

What is one thing that our listeners would be surprised to know about? you. Oh, that I'm black. I'm just playing. Right. What? No, no. I just been just joking. Man, you know what? That you like fishing?

There's a fish of a pole behind you. I mean, that would be one. But I would say that I, you know, that I honestly love yacht rock. Like what? Yacht Rock, man. Yeah, yacht rock, man. Like, silly Dan. of, I mean, man.

Doobie Brothers. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, Duby Brothers, come on. It goes down. Yeah, Michael McDonald. Man. But that doesn't surprise.

I love it. That doesn't surprise me. That might surprise maybe Bob or somebody that's out there. Yeah, that doesn't surprise you. Because they're not complex arrangements. You know what I mean? Like, so, you know, it's just, it was something that, okay. No, no, no, it doesn't surprise you because you know me.

No, well, go ahead. Go ahead. Finish your. your thought. No, because I feel like I've been pegged as like, oh,

you know, Eric's going to play these odd meters or Eric is a, you know, he's, you know, he's a jazz drummer.

Like, you know, he embodies jazz. And I'd be honest, I didn't even know I was a jazz drummer. I thought I was a fusion drummer. Like I grew up loving, man,

Dennis Chambers, Vinnie Callahoo. I mean, man, I, bro, Billy Cobble, man, this is where I was going. Right. And, I mean, even Steve Gad, like, those were cast.

I mean, don't get me wrong. I fell in love with Elvin because my favorite album was John Coltrane Love Supreme. But, man, I didn't even think that I was even on the level to be able to play that type of music. And I just enjoyed it, and I embraced it. it and I, it was something that was a spiritual experience for myself. And it was something that healed me growing up, you know, being an overweight kid and being

chastised by friends and stuff like that. It was the one album that that made me feel better about myself. And I saw that as like, wow, this is, that's special because, you know, I definitely didn't get that from other albums I was listening to. Right. Like this was something that pretty much the record itself gave me a hug and was like, you're okay. you're going to be all right but that's so interesting to hear you say that you know like that i mean maybe i knew this in a certain kind of way because obviously we me me and you we've we've

graduated towards a lot of the same music because we both grew up in the church you know same thing i love steely dan i mean i love fusion i think me too i didn't realize that jazz was going to be my life hell no you know i'm an island boy right you know still at heart you know what i mean but somehow you know this path found me I I and I was like it blessed me and I was like I was like you know what I'm going to follow this you know so that's also that makes sense why we've been on this journey together because it was like oh oh oh this oh this oh this what we're doing oh okay here we go let's do it you know and I was just listened to that album unfolding with me and Goldberg actually last night. And I remember

who was it. I mean, it was some drummer, like, Asme, he was just like, man, I don't think your floor-tum is jazz floor-tum-tuny. And I was like, it's not, bro, because I'm not a jazz drummer. Like,

I'm sitting here still fantasizing. I'm like, ooh, what would Dennis do on this? You know, you know, but it's like, oh, got to pay homage, though, you know. Okay. All right, the cats, you know. That's hilarious. Dude, like, man, cats don't get it.

Oh, my goodness. That's so funny, man. But it was, it was as old that, you know, for those unfolding, I mean, I think that was what, early 2000s, mid-90s? Well, mid-90s. 2000-1, I think. Mid-90s. No, we recorded it in the 99, and I think it came out in Ashley in the year 2000. Wow.

Okay. Well, yeah. Yeah. Well, we were unfolding. I mean, maybe that's where the title of you are trying to figure it out. You know, those years, you know. So, you know, but you all. Eric was definitely unfolding.

You look. Anyway, yo, bro, thank you for taking this time to be with us. You put a smile on my face. It's so, I mean, I love you with all my heart. I'm glad that you're able to spend this time on upright citizens. Bob, thank you for putting up with us, being all a long-witted, talking. and just getting into things here, you know. But, and.

It's good family, baby. You up. And thank you to our listeners for coming on this journey with us, on this base-centric journey. And, hey, we look forward to doing this again and again and again and again and again in their future, all right? You'll take care now. All right, brothers.

All right, Eric, Bob. Peace out. Yes. Thank you so much, Eric. Beautiful. Much luck. Much love. Much love.