You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - "Mingus Ah Um" — Charles Mingus

Episode Date: November 10, 2025

1959 gave us Kind of Blue, Time Out ... and Mingus Ah Um. Adam and Peter dig into Charles Mingus’s most adventurous, soulful record: gospel, bebop, and pure Mingus genius. You’ve never heard it quite like this.Charles Mingus was one of jazz's greatest bass players AND composers. Listen with us as we break down the genius in every track of his best-selling record, and share stories of the brilliant, chaotic, occasionally volatile man behind Mingus Ah Um. Start your free Open Studio trial for ALLLLL your jazz lesson needs: https://osjazz.link/yhi    00:00 — Opening Jam: "Better Git It In Your Soul"01:40 — What's happening at Open Studio3:15 — 1959: What a Great Year!5:40 — Early Mingus10:40 — "All the Things You Can C#" from Mingus at the Bohemia11:40 — "A Foggy Day" from Pithecanthropus Erectus16:15 — "Better Get Hit In Your Soul"23:35 — This One is For the Nerds27:50 — "Goodbye Pork Pie Hat" 34:36 — "Boogie Stop Shuffle"38:30 — "Self-Portrait in Three Colors"40:30 — The Duke Ellington Influence45:10 — "Open Letter to Duke" 48:05 — "Bird Calls"49:00 — "Fables of Faubus"56:40 - "Pussy Cat Dues"58:15 — "Jelly Roll"1:00:15 — Categories1:10:50 — GALA

Hey, Peter. Hey. Or is it Pita? No. Is it Ptum? Nope. It's not Pitoa. It is not.

Well, is it Adom? No. Edomiah? I don't think so. Eplurius Adamias. I don't believe it is. Is it Minga? Mm-mm.

Is it Mingum? No. It's Mingus. Boom. And I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to the You'll hear a podcast. Music Explored. Explored.

It's brought to today by Open Studio. Go to Open Studio. Go to Open Studio. for, oh, your jazz lesson needs. Yeah. Yeah. What's happening over at Open Studio? There's a lot happening.

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Thank you, Peter. Exciting. That was an ad read. I know. We never do these. Do we get into some comments about like, I love you guys like sponsor your own show? This podcast is honestly just an extension of Open Studio.

All we do here is like talk about music we love and talk about how to play it. Yeah. But this show is all about listening to the music we love, including today's album, which is Charles Mingus's 1959, Mingus Ah, Um. And it's not called Mingus Mingammingum. But we're going to get into that. Could have been called that. Could have been called that.

First of all, what a great title. That's great. Come on. I'm going to up my Accutuman score just based upon that. But we'll get to that later as well. Yeah. Oh, such a great album. Okay, let's talk about a certain year.

1959. Have we ever mentioned that? That's a great year. It's a giant steps year. Kind of. Kind of. Kind of. not just for Columbia Records of which this album is on,

but just talking about Columbia Records, we've got Dave Bruback, Time Out, 1959, little thing called Kind of Blue. Maybe you've heard us call it K-O-B by Miles Davis. On Columbia Records. Mingas Alam. All these records were recorded with a lot of overlap, if not total overlap, actually, of the studio, the producer,

the record label, for sure, a couple of them with the same graphic designer and or photographer on the cover. like this was really a huge year for Columbia Jazz and really for kind of dare I say if I'm allowed to say, commercialize jazz not smooth jazz. Well no I mean there are all kinds of jazz

I mean you also have Ornett Coleman's The Shape of Jazz to Come which is the most commercial free jazz record ever made in my book Well and that's coming to this show very very soon But you have even like some lesser known but equally like important ones. Thelonious Monk Thelonius alone in San Francisco One of our favorite albums I think that's his finest solo piano record

It's incredible. You've got things from Horace Silver blowing the blues away and finger-popping two albums that year. I believe portraits and jazz, Portraits of Jazz Bill Evans. Portrait and Jazz from Bill Evans. It was 59 as well.

As well as Kelly Blue, one of my favorite Witten Kelly albums. So great. So an incredible year for the music. And this album sits on top of that heap. I mean, this is one of the mountain... When you talk about, the most important albums of that year,

this is in that top four that usually people talk about Kind of Blue, Timeout, Mingus Aum, and probably portrait in jazz or shape of jazz to clumb, depending on how you want to frame it. But, man, what an album. Yeah, and actually, I'm thinking,

like, Mingus Aumns has showed up for years, which I think is super interesting, on these lists of, like, the 10 greatest jazz albums of all time. And sometimes even just, like, the 100 greatest albums ever made. I mean, this is really a beloved, iconic album, and it's been so much fun for me

to kind of go back and listening to this over the last couple of days, and be reminded why. But this is a very adventurous album. Super adventurous. I forgot how like, this is a deep record. Well, and it's so different from everything else on the list.

I mean, the closest might be time out just as far as like its conception of the music as it's almost like a soundtrack to a movie that doesn't exist. You know what I mean? It's like it's very, very visual almost.

You can hear things happening, which is, by the way, a consistent theme in a lot of Mingus's music. He's so good at sort of like using arranging as a soundscape, which I want to get to, get into here. Yeah. But Mingus himself, man, if we can just build up to this album, like, where he was. Yeah. The first gig he ever got as a professional musician was in Lionel

Hampton's band, where he immediately was a standout, and he started writing music including this tune called Mingus Fingers, which was sort of his feature in Lionel Hampton's band. Check it out. You could already hear, right? Yeah, swinging and weird. Oh, that's sound already. How great is that? And that's, so this is pre-Dougalington pre-Lade 40s, exactly. So, so, So he goes from... From Bird, right? Yeah, next up we got is Bird, actually. So he starts playing with Bud Powell, Charlie Parker, Max Roach, Dizzy Gillespie, sort of those fathers of B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B.

They make this live album under... I think it's under Bud Powell's name, Live at Massey Hall. It was actually under... It was the quintet. It was the quintet. Yeah, that's right. And so what's interesting about this recording, Peter, we're going to listen to Paradito from that, is that this Mingus started a record label.

Paradito? Did you say? Perdito? Perdido. Per dido. Per diem. Per diem. I call it Paredido. Mingus Mingum, Mingum. Exactly. Peridum. Peridum. No, but this is with Charlie Parker, his galaspean Budapal. What's interesting is like, so Mingus put this on a label.

As a young man, he created his own record label, put this album on a label, this version of this album on a label, and he re-recorded his bass, because it's from a live recording. Right. He re-recorded, retract his bass part. Which was not like now with Pro Tools where you just punch it in. It would have been an incredible undertaking to do and he did it.

I'm thinking it probably would have included physically playing the record while he recorded it. I think so. Because there was no like multi-track punch-in situation. But this version became the version, the popular version of the album.

You hear that bass. Hey, when you own the label, that's what you do. This is what bass players love to do. Anyway, I love highlighting that because it just goes to show Charles Mingus, I think, when I think about him as a musician, I think about someone who was constantly thinking outside of the box, was constantly sort of swimming upstream, going against the grain,

whatever you want to call it. If a bunch of people were into it, he was like, no, I'm going to do my own thing. I want to make the music I want to make. He was a very intense individual and could be, I think, a handful for like a band leader especially when you hear about like his interactions with Duke Ellington and some other folks that we'll talk about, I'm sure. But what an engagement. A good incredibly huge personality, an incredibly genius musician and a very thoughtful, forward-thinking musician. On one of his very first albums... I'm sorry, I just as a side note on that live at Massey Hall,

that record, like, I think Mingus became sort of... Like, there was this lore about him as being like the bebop bass player just because of that record. That was an important record because it was the last time Dizzy and Bird played together. Yeah. Or at least record he. I believe it was the last time they played together too. But Mingus was not like the B-Bab bass player, actually.

He was, I mean, he came in at the tail end of that. He was super young. Like, that was never his main kind of a thing. He could do it. He could do it, yeah. But, I mean, he was, and I remember when I was coming up, and that was the first record I heard of Charlie Mingus, that record. And I was like, oh, my God.

In fact, I heard the story, this is back when lore and myths and stuff were flying around. I heard that the bass was so loud. This was pre-internet. I don't know if you knew this, Adam. before the internet. Really? Unlike some people. No.

But I was told the story by some St. Louis musicians they're like, oh, he had a portable tape recorder and the bass was so loud because he had it set up by the bass, which is, of course, we find out later it's not true, he overdubbed it

and it was recorded by the Canadian Jazz Society or something like that. It's a great record, though. Amazing. It's a great record. Also, fun fact about the record, it was supposed to be Lenny Tristano on piano. Lenny told them when he heard the line-up

and what they were going to do, he's like, I think Bud Powell would be better if you can get him. I think Lenny was right. Right? Next up, this is one of from one of his very first albums as a leader. And this again shows you sort of the creativity that we're working with here, someone who's not afraid to mix things out.

Show me what you're working with. It's called All the Things You Can See Shark. This is like music to a silent movie. Very theatrical, very cinematic. Oh. A little rock monotov. Yeah. And a little Jerome Kern mixed together, a little Charlie Parker, Dizzy Gillespie.

And what year was this? This would have been in the early 50s. This is from an album called Mingus at the Bohemia. Oh, yeah, yeah. I think 1953, I believe, 54. Yeah. Isn't that cool, though? Yeah, so cool.

So he's like 20 years old or 21 or something. Yeah. Incredible. Well, apparently when he was a teenager, he was already writing a lot of what later would be coined as third stream music, you know, a la Miles Birth of the Cool, Gunther Schuller, all that kind of stuff. like Mingus was doing that in the 40s as a teenager.

His big breakout, though, was on this album. Pithicanthropus erectus. I'm glad you said it. Never pronounced that correct. Traffic channel. New York City. Or London, England. I see you, mate.

No? Australia. Sorry. The woo birds are out. You know, it's interesting. Man, that dancing bass line. Oh. Just the traffic continues.

Yeah. Like, I think we're going to see this, like, as we get into Mingus Island, like, the big mystery for me has always been, like, how some of his records and his, not so much his music, because he's got some incredibly accessible, beautiful, some of the most beautiful jazz standards of which a couple, at least we're going to be listening to today, were written by Charlie Mingus, Charles Mingus. But a lot of his performances were very out there, right? and especially at a time when, like, jazz was,

I mean, this is still kind of the big band era. You know, we're going to get into the Duke Ellington connection and this kind of a thing. But, like, he was very aggressive in terms of, like, expectations of the audience, almost in a way that, like, modern classical music might have been at that time. But I think the fact that he was able to, like,

he's obviously firmly, you know, steeply, firmly steeped in the bebop tradition in terms of, like, his line and how he approaches things. That's why he fits in so good with Max Roach. like Max Roach, always looking around the corner too, right? That's right. And we're going to get into that. Like Max Roach, you know, the main influence for that part of their artistic minds was Duke Ellington.

Yes. Who Mingus played very briefly in Duke Ellington's band. We're going to talk about that a little bit later because it's a great story we're going to get to here in a bit. But that last foggy day, that's from 1956, the Pythacanthropus erectus, is from 19. And just three years later, there's the clown that happens in between. There's a couple of other things that happen, which are really, really great.

But this album, Mingus Ahum, is the one that sort of like cements his legacy as a forward-thinking. Really, I mean, New York City legend, too. Can we be honest here? Yeah. This is just like, everything he does, you said New York as soon as you've had a foggy day. It all feels very downtown Manhattan, doesn't it?

I mean, there's, and also, like, the fact that he was, like, friends with, Fran Leibovitz who still talks about him to this day like in Martin Scorsese documentaries like he just feels like a very East Coast personality to me as a Midwest boy I'm like man that's like how people in New York are

are like intense and gruff and like committed to their art and like doing things outside of the box you know what I mean? Yeah I mean it came across in his personality and most importantly in the personality of his instrument his you know his writing for sure but even you just hear him walk in the bass lines it's different you know for sure

But it's fun fact, he grew up in L.A. That's the amazing thing about it, too. He is such a New York presence, but he grew up in Los Angeles and Watts, I believe, was born in Arizona, and just had a very, very interesting lineage, a lot of different ethnicities, more of which than we can list here and understand went into his kind of personal lineage of his family ties and stuff. So that's his pedigree right there. I mean, he really, he played with all the greats. He played with Lionel Hampton, Charlie Parker, Bud Powell, Duke. Gellington. He co-founded debut records with Max Roach in 52 and was already a business person, already an artist and executive in this industry by the time he made this album.

This album comes out and it begins with something that we've heard a lot here on this podcast from a lot of different kinds of music, and that is church. Yes. It starts with church, you know, whether that's, we've heard it from all corners of the music that we've listened to. that church music just Well, it gets in your soul Yeah, doesn't it?

You better. Good one. Horace Parlin. Amazing. Horace Parlin. All the backgrounds on this song. All the backgrounds on all the solo. So intricate.

Yeah. You're right, the whole album is full of like very precisely arranged backgrounds. And timed. Yeah. And going into the walking here, the walking bass line, we're still in three or in six. Dung two, two, T, four, five, six, one, two, two.

Yeah, but that's that underlying beat. Now we're back to it. Or is Parlin. I want to put a pin in this because I want to talk about this real quick. I want to put a pin in this and apply it to all my playing. For sure. Woo! Is that Mingus yelling out as he's playing?

I always thought it was. I thought it was, too. I don't know who's yelling out, though. I just assumed it. This is very different from a lot of. those other 1959 jazz records

and that there's so much just like vamp like this is not really, I mean this is kind of soloing but it's more like shout stuff

collective improv it's what I'm saying it's not about going from solo to solo to solo to solo that's what makes it so appealing

right it's not all of blues which is great too I love this part breakdown beb the correct way this is the blues

of course in six with the gospel groove But you got all that bebop in there because of the tempo and because Mingus goes into the walking Danny Richmond.

But the form on this is like almost every track on here. There's a couple more conventional ones. But this drone on that app. The drone is so sick, man. The drone is so sick. Oh, the dynamics they're playing there. Oh, man, it's got that ding, tink, t'ing. He's playing around with that two against three or four and six.

Horace Farland. Oh, blues. T3, 4, 1, 2,000, 2. It's so simple, but so imaginative. And then this is like a MaxRoge Bebop solo kinda. Totally, yeah, totally, great call. Man, ugh, this nasty, life. Then back to that.

And then like a variation on the drone. And then that chanting, I mean, And you could tell this was a straight-through recorded track. Like, I'll put that flagpole in the sand. I mean, they did have editing at that time, but you can just feel it, right? There's some other stuff on this album that's edited. Yeah. But not this.

No. Probably. But I mean, because of how, like, complex the form is with the different sections, I don't know if he was queuing that as he went. I don't think they have that written out where it's like... They sound so tight with this, too. It sounds so natural and smooth. It's almost like going through.

a church service where like everybody knows. You don't know what's going to happen, but you know what's going to cue the next part. This is the blues bridge. Two, five. Simple. Come on now. And just letting it break down. Seven and a half minutes of genius right there.

So good. On that bottom F. Yeah. How long is it? Seven and a half minutes, but it flies by. There's so much. A little amen at the end. It's so good. One thing I just want to point out for all the nerds

out there is nerd nook. It's like, you know, it's a blue. lose form when they get into it, right? And you can hear Horace Parlin doing this kind of thing, this going up sort of F major tri and the B flat thing, right? Like a little inlaid one to four, Amen, reverse amen.

But I want everyone to notice if you're a beginner piano player out, when they go to the four chord, he doesn't go... No. He goes to... That would be corny. F minor, essentially. Yeah. Right?

Same little melodic riff, but major to minor. something you hear again and again with great blues musicians. I mean, they're treating that four chord as almost like it's one minor in the language that they're playing and the voicing that they're playing around it. Just something that you should note. It doesn't have to be as cookie cutter as like F7, B-flat-7. It's really about this push and pull always. Were you using my voice? You imitating my voice? A little bit. A little bit. But the push and pull between that major and minor all the time. And the four-cord can be used as just like that one minor in a lot of situations.

And also the five chord. Yeah. Playing like F minor over that CC in the base all the time. It sounds incredible. Yeah. Great stuff. I mean, I think you're already hearing it on this track. Probably the most consistently of any track on here, but it permeates the entire album.

I think Mingus's ability to set the table. I mean, and the side men on this are incredible, obviously. We're going to talk about them. But, I mean, Mingus, in terms of the composition, he wrote everything on this record. But he had that ability to combine blues, gospel, jazz, but specifically in terms of jazz, like bebop

in a way that's actually very tricky on something like this. Like, he's pushing the temple a little bit on this. It's not, like, typically, like, kind of a... I mean, this could be, as a church group, it could be a lot of different temples, but typically this, like, like, that kind of a thing, you know. Oh, that's a little... All the blues kind of situation.

Another instance of, by the way, the one minor on the four chord. Exactly. Exactly, exactly, with a three or a six as opposed to two or four. But I mean, he's pushing it so, and then he's pushing into that walking baseline pretty quickly. Which is great. And then he brings it back as like this part of the story. And then everybody's picking up in terms of like bebop language and stuff.

And so it's very, actually very hard to seamlessly combine all those different styles without it sounding like a corny kind of thing of like, now I'm doing jazzy, now I'm doing bluesy, now I'm doing R&B or whatever. like it's just kind of his thing i mean there's a lot you could say about gospel's kind of the overlay maybe there's a lot you could say about charles mingus but corny is not one of us not kind of the opposite of corny he's sort of the ultimate like he might pull a shotgun out on you cool guy tough guy you know what i'm saying um all right next up but there's such like the beauty like his intonation the playing the dynamics he was he was a tough guy we have all the legendary stories which might have been

overblown a little bit but i mean yeah but he had this like beautiful nuanced approach to music we're gonna hear that for sure on the next track that really was obviously a huge part of his musical personality as well So the next track is called goodbye pork pie hat this is a tribute to Lester Young who had passed away Just a couple of months before they recorded this album Yeah Lester Young if you haven't heard much Lester Young go listen to some Lester Young I recommend the Lester Young Trio on with Nat King Cole and Buddy Rich which is like unbelievable Unbelievable that'd be a fun one We should do that actually

some point. But... Lester Young was so great that other saxophonists nominated him and called him president. That's right. He was his nickname, was Pres. That's right. I love this song so much, man.

And yeah, let's have a listen. By the way, I just want to, but I want to point out, too, this is the first of, I think, 80% of this album, the titles, the songs themselves are written about someone. Yeah.

So there's tribute to Lester Young. There's an open letter to Duke. There's bird calls. Charlie Parker. There's even like some... you know, the Fables of Fobis, which is not a flattering picture. But it's about somebody specific. There's a song called Jelly Roll, right?

There's even self-portrait in three colors about Mingus himself, a song called Pussy Cat Dues, which we don't know. Who that's for? We're not going to speculate on that one? Did Lester Young had he just died when they made the record or when he wrote this or something? I mean, I know it's a goodbye, so I'm assuming it was... Yeah, no, he had just died before the recording of this album. He died in March of 1959. Oh, wow.

He was goodbye, Port My Hand. such great arranging. Simple. You know what I love about this one too is like I consider these two contemporary composers to be some of the most important composers of this era of music,

Charles Mingus and Philonius Monk. Yeah. And like this, monk has written ballads in this sort of style and sort of feel. And they're completely different. They're like completely opposite,

harmonically, melodically what they choose to do. But somehow like they, there's a authenticity to both of them as artists that is really so appealing. Like you can hear the Mingus one and just know like that's the Mingus thing.

It's like he does all those like dominant sevenths down a minor third. You know what I mean? And the melodies are always very singable, always very memorable. Not that Monk's art, but Monk you can hear just like rhythmically. He's got harmonic concepts that just bring him out.

I consider those two to just be like working on a similar plane in their own sandboxes kind of. I mean, really, really, I don't even know. Did they ever play together? I don't think of it. I'm sure they did. I'm sure they would have crossed paths.

We're definitely swinging and missing on that. Put in the comments if there's been a monk Mingus club. Oh, you remember the great monk Mingus duo at Monsie Hall in Montreal? Totally, totally. Yeah, and I mean, like, you touched on it a little bit, but like, there's a lot of this sharp nine, which is really, and blues, there's a lot of blues inflection in terms of how Mingus, you can hear it when he's improvising his baselines on all of his stuff.

Like that was a deep part of his thing But what you alluded to in terms of like The dominant chord movement was very unique Like with this That's like E flat 7 To go up to the 4 like he did That's a very gospel kind of blues thing But then he goes down

To that D flat 7 Which is like that's kind of like later on It was like a Stevie Wonder Like Stevie Wonder loves it At this time that was a little bit I mean it just It really gives the personality of like how he heard music How he'd float those melodies on top

And then also man, the details with having the two saxphones in unison for that whole melody, and then splitting them. And they have one note, and I'm thinking that it was just one of them made a little mistake, but I love it so much in that first melody where they're not in unison. But I'm also like, maybe Mingus wrote it like that? I don't know. We don't know.

It works. I love that that stayed on the record and is like part of it. I mean, like, when you play it, do you have to do that? No. But I mean, like, that's part of the moment. And I mean, the level. And shout out, we didn't shout out enough on, I think, on one of the others. First of all, Tio Massaro, producer on this,

who also at least co-produced both those other records. We talk about Columbia in 1959. Timeout and kind of blue. And also Fred Plout, who engineered all of them. The sound is just stellar. And shout out 30th Street, Columbia Studio, the church, where they, I mean, you can hear how beautifully it's captured. Yeah, and the band on this too is pretty ridiculous.

We got Danny Richmond on the drums. Danny Richmond, bad dude. Bad dude. We already talked about Horace Parlin, which I want to talk about more on the next song. John Handy, the third on the ounce of saxophone, who is still with us. Yes, I believe he's,

is he the only one on here, probably still with us? I think so. I apologize if somebody on this record, but I think so. He's 92 years old. Shout out to the great John Handy. And yeah, Horace Parlin,

you know where Horace Parlin's from? Pittsburgh. PA. Pittsburgh, PA, which we know is a great music town. Incredible. Piano town. I mean, yeah, I'm always thinking about all the great musicians,

but just the pianist. I compile a little list, okay? Hit me. I might even get into some people that just traveled through, Pittsburgh airport, but I don't think so. No, Sonny Clark, ever heard of him? One of my fates.

Oh, you want to go to a real big dog? How about Eral Garner? That's a big dog. Johnny Costa. Oh, Mr. Rogers' fame. It doesn't get any more Pittsburgh than that. Ahmad Jamal, often associated with Chicago. One of the greatest artists who ever lives.

Oh, oh, you know what? Let's go even more, OG. Let's go up even higher. I like where you're going. Earl Hines. Father. Consider the father of jazz piano. Earl Hines from Pittsburgh.

Oh, I'm sorry, let's go to even more legendary. Mary Lou Williams. Pittsburgh, yeah. That one, I'm almost sure is correct. I'm either side of that one. No, I think it is. We'll get letters. Send them to johnnycosta.com.

Let's just talk about just great composers in general. Oh, and they're also great jazz pianos from Pittsburgh. But legends. Yeah? Like who? William Strayhorn. Billy Strayhorn. Jerry Allen, this is the one I'm not sure about.

I love Jerry. We love Jerry Allen. Jerry Allen, one of the greatest jazz pianists of the laugh. Could be from Pittsburgh. Well, she definitely taught there and hung out. I believe she's from Pittsburgh. I just love to say her name anyway. Yeah, shout out Jerry Allen.

Man, what a list to... Sammy Nestico. Okay, sorry. Now I'm just naming names, but yeah, this is all Pittsburgh. And Horace Parlin is one of them. Yeah. And, you know, Horace Parlin, born in Pittsburgh, in his first year on this earth,

was stricken with polio. Yeah, that was the polio. And that resulted in a partial crippling of his right hand, which if you play piano, you know, kind of an important hand. hand. I mean, they're both pretty important. Yeah. The right hand, though, especially. But partial,

only had partial use of his right hand, which he made into his sound, which, like, it just goes to show you, stop using excuses. I know. Like, horse parlourin sounds amazing. And he was crippled on his right hand with polio when he's a child and developed

his own sound, became this whole, this whole artist onto himself, had an amazing life, amazing career. And this is Boogie Stop Shuffle, to hear a little more. Dave Sandborn, too. That's right, David Sandworth. Also from polio, correct?

Yeah, yeah. Pugly stopped shopping. Oh, that's Duke Ellington right there. Influenced. Danny Richmond. So much Duke Ellington in Mingus. I mean, Mingus talks about this, too. His primary compositional influence.

Keeping that line going underneath? Who. Counterpoint. Oh. Oh, can make a swing when he walked? Yes. What a sound, too. It's a big bass sound.

I mean, the comping is just continuing the line. So genius. Bass and piano. Sipping. Right, go to swing, but with the background. When I start rushing there, and I'm here for it. Mingus, Mings threw out of rush. Not a problem.

Some of our favorite bass players. That's right. Our famous rushers. Oh. Again, more of that blues thing Oh The horse parlour. Oh, the backgrounds

Oh, play it's so tasteful piano, not pianissimo, not metzo piano. Oh. Activated. Blues has been activated. Been done activated. Oh. Oh, that's going to the four minor.

Hell yeah. Hell, that's a pro move. That's right. You've got to be advanced to pull that up. You got to be like, sh, boom. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So just for our listener here about what just happened, That's what we were saying he didn't do before.

Yeah, yeah. But he waited on it. Yeah, what we said before, but he just picked a right moment, didn't he? So, a B-flat minor blues, right? Yeah, right? It was so all minor blues. Miner, so.

And on that one time on the four-court, he goes up to the blue scale of the four. Amazing, amazing stuff. So good. Yeah, and this one's so cool, too, because it's obviously, it's called boogie-stop shuffle. So it's got. Like, B-B-B-B-B-Burnetones.

It's bluesy, obviously. It's even got some churchy stuff. It's not really a shuffle, but, like, Danny Richmond is so, like, flexible with it. It's got the undertones of that. And then it's got this boogie-wogie line, but it's not, like, your typical, like, you know, down there. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's up here, right. You know, it's, man, it's just, like, all woven together. And it's very, man, this could be like, this could be like a chase scene in, in like the French Riviera and North by Northwest Alfred Hitchcock or something you know where they got like the slick car

I'm glad you mentioned that because the next track on the album Self Portrait and Why are we taking a trip to France together? We could glad you mentioned that. Take it open studio France The next track is Self Portrait in Three Colors which was originally written for the film Shadows but wasn't included due to budgetary concerns

Come on Hollywood. We're all the benefit because I'm sure you watch Shadows a couple times a year like we all do Never heard of it either No but John Cassavetus Isn't this John Cassavada's?

I don't know, actually. I think, yeah. But self-portrait in three colors we listen to all the time. Gorgeous. This would have been good. I haven't seen the movie. Hold on to check my IMDB real quick. Is that I think so?

Unison melody again. Of course, Barland. John Cassavetes for Shatvett. You're totally right, yeah. Actually, this movie looks dope. He was an actor, too. He was in a bunch of... Did he direct this or was he starring it?

I don't know. He directed it. Yeah, but he was an actor, too. I can't remember what he was. Big stuff, big stuff. Yeah, this was around that period where there was, like, jazz and this kind of thing. I could see, like, because you got anatomy of a murder,

I believe it was right around this, maybe the year before. Duke Allington. I mean, shout out, Otto Preminger. Shout out Shadows. I'm going to go look it up on 2B tonight and tell you what. Toobie. Sponsor, maybe?

Never heard of it, so. Is that Netflix? It's so, man, you really nailed it to begin. Jimmy Nepper. You nailed it with... Is Mingus, like, is he on the Mount Rushmore of the little big band of like small... What would you call it?

Small big band or anything? It would have to be. But yeah, for such a small, quote-unquote, band of just three or four horns and a rhythm section, I mean, the colors that he's able to get, I mean, in this tune specifically three, but in general, in general,

so many different colors to all of this. And he learned it, Peter from his mentor, the Great Duke Ellington. Edward Kennedy Ellington. Edward Kennedy Ellington. And the next track is a tribute to that, open letter to Duke. Well, we don't know if it's a tribute.

It's an open letter because they had Checkered Pass. Quite a relationship. So Mingus joined Duke's band and was fired from Duke's band all in 1953. All in like a couple weeks, I think. For allegedly swinging an axe at trombonist Juan Tiesel, who, in Mingus's defense, might have

called Mingus a racial slur and pulled out a knife. We don't know because there's several different accounts of the interaction. There's one from Mingus. There's one from Juan Tiesel. There's one from Duke Ellington. And there's even one from the trumpet player, one of the trumpet players in the band, St. Louis' own Clark Terry.

I'm going to trust Clark Terry. I actually would trust Clark as well because he's kind of a... He's the only one of those that I knew a little bit in real life. He's an angel. He is. Yeah. So... But the only thing in common with all those stories, I think, was that Charles Mingus swung a large iron or steel object

at Juan Tiesel. Like, that's not in dispute. Everybody agrees, including Mingus, that he grabbed something. Right. In acts, some say it was a piece of iron. Something like from the state, on the side of the side of the stage. But there was apparently an altercation about Juan Tiesel

playing something of Duke's or writing something. Yeah. And he didn't like to, he said something to Mingus about you're not reading it right. But apparently it went back deeper than that. Like when Mingus was coming up, he really wanted to play cello. some other instruments too. Yeah.

And like because of, you know, the times and everything, he wasn't afforded an equal musical education, even though he really wanted it. So he didn't learn to read real well. He did later on. But he could play. He could write. He could arrange. But he had some of these barriers put up.

And so he might have had a little chip on his shoulder as you would for people saying, oh, you can't read that correctly. You mean read music? Yeah, right. Notation. He's like, oh, really? Let me go get this steel pipe and see if you can read that. that buddy.

We're not jazz. We are not journalists, by the way. Let's put that out there. But Duke apparently the way, I love this part of the story, too. The way that Duke fired him, Minga said you feel like he just shook your hand and said some nice things about you and you felt great about it.

And then he resigned. Yeah, and then he resigned. But that's so tracts for what everybody would say about Duke Ellington. He was just the suavest man, the most incredible gentleman in the world. Mingas loved Duke so much, the aforementioned Fran Leibowitz,

who says New York City icon author Fran Leavitt says that Mingus used to say that Ellington could get away with things that no one ever could like calling him Charlie. Apparently Mingus hated when people call him Charlie. Yeah, he's going to, you might take that out. Don't use Chuck for sure. And he'd let even let Duke Ellington steal bites out of his dinner, which he was not sure the validity of that of Fran's recollection.

But a couple years after this was the money jungle. Which is such an interesting We don't have to We can divert if you'd like One of the tracks So Money Jungle is Duke Ellington Max Roach So the guy that Mingus started the label

With incredible bebop drummer And Mingus One of the greatest trio On the low-key One of the greatest trio Piano Trio Records ever made I think It's such a great record It's such a weird record

It's awesome though And what I love about it Are we gonna become a jazz podcast again? We are There's a little bit of a battle In the comments go on So let us know It's always guys with Bebop

In their names though And with Fodorant No, not a fordome. Yeah. But what's interesting about Money Jungle, one of the tracks that they put on this album, Juan Teesal's Caravan. Oh, that's right.

What? That's a check, I know. They put Caravan on it. What is that all about? Maybe Mingus had, had he buried the hatchet, buried the steel pipe on it? Can't say that. You can't say that, Peter.

Sorry. This is Money Jungle from 1963. Man, Duke is killing in on here. We should do Money Jungle, honestly. One of the most aggressive, beautiful, weirdest jazz trio records ever. But great. But great.

Incredible. Actually, this is what you have to love about Dick Graham. Like that record shouldn't have worked as good as it did. I love records like that. Almost the entire last 15 years of Duke Ellington's recording career shouldn't have worked and is some of his best stuff. Yeah. I mean, talk about a visionary

and New Orleans sweet. That's a weird. That's a weird piece. That duo album with Ray Brown is so odd. I said the 70s, in the 70s, right before he passed away, Duke County passed away. But this is where I think you can tell Mingus is inspired by his hero is from this kind of stuff, like making these really interesting

things that are not straight down the middle that are curveballs. Even Duke Ellington and John Coltrane shouldn't have worked as good as it did. It worked so well. I feel a Duke Ellington streak coming on for next season, Peter. So, anyway, this is Mingus' open letter to Duke.

He's swinging as hail, but... Oh, yeah. Okay. Pause. I haven't done that a while. We're going to go back and listen to the beginning again. Because a bunch of... First of all, the way this whole record starts

with Better Getting Your Soul, like kind of... It's very like what's going on, almost like voodoo where it just kind of like congeals and what's going to happen. No? Just like, what's going on? I mean, for like one of the most popular jazz records

of all time, it's crazy. But this track, like Mingus's decision... Now, did he make it at that moment? Was it calculated? Who cares? But his decision to wait to come in and start walking to me just like draws you in. And it's like, oh, yes, I'm here for it.

I mean, this is the run of the album of this album that I think makes it so immortal. Is the open letter to Duke Bird calls and fables of Phobis, I think, takes, it breaks open the album. I mean, the first four tracks are amazing. They're all great. The first three, I would say,

well, really, the first two are, like, the most, I can understand why they put those first. All nine of these tracks, Peter, are incredible, honestly. Yeah, but I'm saying the first two are the most, like, potentially crossing over to anybody that's. I don't know if I like jazz. Okay, I like that. This is good jazz.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The snobometer starts very high or very low. It starts very low, but now it starts to get high because this shit is sweet. But the way he comes, just check out you guys when Mingus comes in. A little countdown foreshadowing? A little countdown foreshadowing? Same year. Mingus lets Danny Richmond coming up.

Dany Richmond's Phil. A horse parlant and Danny Richmond, the most underrated rhythm section players. Probably. Yeah. Don't sleep on Open Letter to Duke. And it goes so many different places. This is almost like a mini suite, the whole track. And it's something we kind of haven't had yet, right?

We've had all this, like, intricate backgrounds and these back and force between the rhythm section and the horns and dropping out and clapping. And now we just get like, no, we're just going to burn it. We can also tip. But the way they come in, man, I can't. Like, I'm always, whenever I hear something like, I remember, I was like, oh, little silly things

are actually super important. Like, when do you come in? When does, like, because we, I mean, how would we have done this? We probably would like, one, two, all together, bam, which is fine. So next up is bird calls. Now, Peter, we mentioned that this is a tribute to Charlie Parker. However, not true.

Did you know that? I never totally assumed it. I mean, I always assumed it was, but I've never had any definitive. Oh, so we are jazz journalists. Is that what you're saying? This is not a tribute to Charlie Parker. Let me see your card. Let me see your jazz police card.

Hold on. I got it right here. Hold on. They've got my badge. It's a badge. It's a badge. Bird call. Yeah.

Can it have a dual meaning? I always just assumed it was about bird Yeah Oh Definitely about bird Right Both birds I think so

Yeah Why do you say it's not about Charlie Park Because that's what my That's what our producer Oh sorry Am I supposed to be reading this No shout out Liz I producer for the

The research that us knuckleheads Don't do She is a jazz juror I don't know about that You know maybe it is It's got to be in there somewhere I mean Ming has probably said No that's not for

Charlie Parker. But come on, you dillia abo. Dilliabo. Next up, so this is, I think, probably when people think of this album,

they probably think of this song as one of the quintessential songs of the album, Fables of Fobus, which was a protest against Arkansas governor Orville Falbis. He sounds shady.

I don't know a lot about it. Orville Falbis? I mean, I like Orville Redenbacher. He makes some fine popcorn. It sounds like the... Orville Falbis sounds like he was up to some bad things. He sounds like the bad guy

in a John Grishon novel. he sent the National Guard to prevent black students the Little Rock Nine from attending Little Rock Central High School in 1957 Fun fact The Little Rock Nine

One of the children was a young girl Whose name I apologize, I'm forgetting But she used I saw her for years She was PBS News Hour One of the original anchors

She's retired now Was wonderful She was actually one of the Little Rock Orville You're fucking up man Come on Son of a bitch So the original had lyrics

But Columbia wouldn't allow Mingus to publish the song with lyrics, so they released it as an instrumental. Come on, Columbia. Come on, stand up. See, we're always like, 1959, what a glory is here, we forget. Not quite.

But Mingus did release a version of it with the lyrics the following year as original Fobis Fables. He started off the song saying it's dedicated to the first or second or third, all-American heel. Heal, H-E-E-Ls. This is by the...

Now I'm going to stop. Stop it. This is one of the greatest compositions of the 50s. This is an incredible piece of music. Yeah, I'll say that. Orchestration. It's telling a story, too.

Right? Orchestration. Damn. But there's like a, there's a little bit of a military action element to this. Sharp knives. Unbelievable. Mingus, Master the Segway.

Unbelievable. I mean, it's not a complicated thing he just did there. No. It's a very sophisticated, though. very effective. The way the trombone comes in on the second note there. Uh, Jimmy Nepper. Minor with a major, some.

I mean, you think this has influenced the musicians? Absolutely. And I mean, oh, yeah, this is. And I mean, to make such an overt political statement of such beauty. But there's also like, there's a certain, is it mockery? there's a disdain that's built into this, even as beautiful it is. Yeah.

You know, and he named it, so this is not supposed to be, like, obscured or anything. But it stands as a piece of beautiful art on it. 100%. Which is something that's always been in jazz. It's always been a part of the music. Is it still?

Is it still? Is it still? I mean, there's corners. We need more of this. There's corners. For sure. We need a Charlie Mingus out here.

It's a masterpiece. It's a masterpiece. I love this horse parlance. Oh, yeah. Oh, when they come out of it? Ah. That's supposed to be uncomfortable, too, when they're like... It's not supposed to feel as smooth.

No. Oh, man. Thank you, Charles Mingus. So right there, that effect that he's getting is on the base. He's slapping the base itself. Yeah. Which has a whole history going back. Jimmy Blanton, pre that...

Oh. Yeah, I mean, Mingus had such a dramatic flare. Like, for... infusing the music with this, like, drama, but then also just very, like, beautiful swinging stuff, bluesy. Like, there's, like, comfort food, but then it's, like, some really challenging stuff put in there. I mean, it helps his cause that this band is so swinging.

Like, it makes it... Oh, you think? Yeah, no, I mean, you can't ignore that. Oh, great players contribute to the expedition? You're mocking me now. Like, I'm Orville, Thalphus. Orville. Come on, Orville.

I actually do want to try to bring up the version with lyrics because I think it's... Oh, yeah. But how great... So the orchestration of the beginning of that with the... The bum-ba-dum-ba... And that trombone is not playing on the first note of the phrase, but on the second notes of the phrase. And, you know, with orchestration, your goal is to make new instruments by combining instruments. And that's what Mingus is doing there.

Like any great orchestrator, whether it's for an orchestra in classical music or for a film score or for a rock band, or for this kind of music, Mingus is top tier at getting new instruments. Yeah. There's an instrument that happens with the comping that happens behind that saxophone solo of Horace Parlin, Dunnett, with the slap on the base. That's a new instrument that he's making

by combining those things. Absolutely. Oh, man, this is great. And I love, like, his first big label, big budget. I know. Columbia, he's like, we're going with Falbus Fables. No fear. Fables of Fowles.

Albus. All right, here we go. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Remember no applause and keep it down. Your drinks, don't rather your ice in your glasses, and don't rain the cash register. You got it covered? All right.

I'd like to continue this set with a conversation dedicated to the first or second or third All-American Hill, Fabus. And it's titled, The Fables of Favis. Oh, Lord, don't let us see with us. Oh, Lord. Don't let them fly us. No more swastas.

Doesn't seem like that big of an ask. No, I know. And I love this kind of like militaristic undertone, police state kind of a thing, even though it sounds great, you know. Going to swing. Like that dichotomy, right? I mean, Mingus, man, a giant.

Not the voice of an angel, we wouldn't say, but like he's singing it. He's singing it while he's playing. Next up, Pussycat Dues. sound of this album too. Again, shout out T.O. And Fred Plow. Yeah. Shout out, Freddie. Hard pan on those horns. I love it.

Ah. That's the biggest progression right there. Oh. Incredible. Next up is a tribute, another tribute. This is the last track. We're moving through this album. Last track on the album is a tribute to Jelly Roll Morton called Jelly Roll. I love playing this song. I've got to do this album a little bit with our own Bob DeBoo.

Bob hosted in 1959. Day at our very own Jazz St. Louis did you play Giant Steps. We did not play Giant Steps now because it was released in 1960. Question for you on this. Are we going to listen to

because we can start to get into categories or we can listen to this and then but I just want to question are we going to listen to the original version of this the four minute-ish version? I don't because this is like a Spotify thing where they kind of...

I think this is six minutes here. Yeah, so this is not the original version. This is really good. I get more slapping here on the base. So great. Yeah, there wasn't the original version.

There was a splice where like two minutes and 40 seconds was taken out. It's like one of the worst. Well, I shouldn't say it's one of the worst. For 1959, it's not bad. It's my only equivalent. They fixed it, though.

Yeah. Well, they, but it's such a part of the record. New Orleans. Very fancy. Yeah. I'm going to give. Gilded Age.

I'm on one of those PBS parties for those corny shows that comes on. To quote Bobby Hill, I'm going to give room service to jangle in order up some A2 Faye. We might have to call our friends

to make sure we can... DeMosier and De Boisleuze. Balsh. I don't know if our new fans know about De Boisier. But, man, Mingus could, like, bring this, like, old-timey new... But it's not corny. It's not at all corny.

Man, if I try to write some... In lesser hands, in some o'-ge-d-d-d-d-oh. Oh, my God. Because he's always got a little Mingus twist to it. Guy's cool as hell. There's no doubt about it. Man, his baseline, like, I mean, oh, Charlie Mingus is a great bass player.

Okay, I'm no genius to say that. But it's always, look, it's baselines. And so, like, Mingus, I do feel like sometimes we don't quite put him in, like Paul Chambers, Ray Brown, Jimmy Blanton category. But I think he maybe should be, it's because he is probably the greatest jazz bass playing composer of all time. Yeah. You could say, make a easy case for that.

but we forget like he's in kind of the Mount Rushmore Of course he is You know top five top ten Just bass players Just abilities and swing Intonation, boat You know

It's Charles Biggis It's Charles Mingus Come on man Let's get to some categories Peter What's your desert island track From this album? Goodbye Pork by Hat

Man I think that's one of the most Beautiful To me it's kind of like You know Horace Silver piece It's kind of like Walsford Debbie It's just a beautiful

And it's truly a jazz Ballad right It's not a It's not a it's not even like sometimes there's beautiful jazz ballads that are written in the style of Great American Songbook and this is not that you know what I mean? It's got that kind of like ballad beauty and stuff

but it's very much an instrumental jazz ballad standard standard what you got? I got Fables of Fowis I just think it's an incredible work of art I think it's a beautiful protest song but you're gonna be pissed off on that desert island every time you hear that every day you gotta remember about listen to that is that how you want to go out I'm going to remember that human beings, there are human beings out in the world that make incredible art to stand up

to abuse of power. And I think that's important. It gives me hope and maybe like, oh, maybe there's someone out there standing up for me on this desert island trying to get me off this thing. See, that's deep, man. It's inspiring to me. See how I'm on my desert island

and just want to hear some most beautiful ballad. What does that say about me versus you? You're still standing up. Okay. Okay. Apex moment. What do you got? Okay, so we listened to it already,

but if you want to go back to it on Boogie Stop Shuffle, I love the beginning of Horace Parlin solo like with the backgrounds Like this is Yeah coming out of the Coming out of The sax solo And those really quiet lines on the deep

And it's so killing man And it keeps going He goes up there And he's doing the same line And then here it's doing the same line And then here it's Oh. I mean, good, great moments in swing.

Remember that? CBS, great moments in history. I also, I have Horace Parlin's solo on Better Get It in Your Soul. Yeah. So, like, to Harlan. And was Horace Parlin steal this record? Horace Parlin, we used to have a category who stole the record. Horace Parlin might have stole this.

I know. But Mingus? Mingus is so killing. So it's back up here a little bit. All this stuff. The same kind of thing that he's doing on the, on the... It's so cocky to play a solo where you're not really solo. You know, so great.

Super, super inspiring. Well, okay, bespoke playlist title. What do you got, Peter? Well, I'm really going to go out on a limb on this one. I'm going to surprise you. I'm going to go off cuff and call it 1959, exclamation point, exclamation point. You're so creative, which is what I love about you. I'm going to call it the golden year, which is pretty much the same thing, a little bit, a little bit shinier.

Yeah. Quibble bits. What do you got? Well, on that original version, the edit coming out of the sax solo going into the mingus is one of the most abrupt. weird edits on a record that feels like it was just they came in and just did all first takes I don't know that they did they probably didn't but it's got that feel that it's so

abrupt and weird I would say but it's such a part of it so when I listen to the spotter of my version now I was like wait where was that or earlier today and I was like oh yeah of course they would have fixed that so that's one of the advantages but I'm also like man that's some of the magic it's like the last track it's a weird edit I'm sure it was because I mean I think this record's like 46 minutes or 45 minutes

which is getting on the long side for an LP yeah needs to be like 43 Yeah. I mean, not, I don't think it's getting musically. It's just the quality, you know how they used, especially in the late 50s with LPs, the quality, the longer it was, the more qualitative decisions they had to make to degrade it a little bit. So that's probably why they lopped it off because the plane's great on it. But that's a little quibble. I mean, my only quibble bit is with Columbia Records for not allowing the lyrics to Fables of Phobus on there. Oh, why? What are you? You're not a company, man? Come on. Stemometer. So Peter, interesting thing about the stomobiter

in this case, I wrote down five, and then next to that, you wrote down ha, ha, ha, ha. No, no, no, just two has.

Oh, sorry, ha ha ha. Why? You say five. I say five. I say five. I say five. I never say five.

I don't. You always say five. And I have put nothing because I wanted to, like, go through this experience. I think this is a five. I would have to agree.

Because this is your classic, like, how can it, I mean, there's certain, like a snobby level to be like like so if you're with like general company and you're like what's your favorite record

someone's like Phil Collins Genesis Three Sides Live and someone else is like Michael Jackson off the wall then you say Mingus Am you're off the snobometer right you're off the charts you're 10 right I guess so but for jazz records

this is a one actually because it's very it's on Rolling Stones 500 greatest albums of all time which is kind of incredible this is And it's pretty far up. And you know what's... It's not $4.99. You know what's so crazy?

It's depending on the personality type of the person that you're trying to introduce jazz to, any of those sort of big five albums from 1959, kind of blue, Miga's Aum, Time Out, Shape of Jazz to Come, and Portrait and Jazz. I think you could find one of those as the entree into the music from that year because they're all so accessible. I would put this as the snobbies of those five views, even Shape of Jazz to Come. I would put Shape of Jazz to Come as a little bit more snobby than this, but that's such an obvious, like real snobs would be like, oh, that's not even top five for Ornette records.

I don't know about that. Better than KO.B. Kind of blue. No. Different. He can't commit. I'm going to say no. Why, though?

Why? Like, hearing this again, experiencing this with you and our dear listeners, like, I'm more excited about this record now, which is crazy. Because what are we talking about going into this? I was like, I don't know if I love this album. I like this album. Yeah. To quote a very good friend of mine who shall remain nameless.

I like this album. I don't love. But I mean, I almost feel like I, it's like deeper than love or like for me with this record. Like there's, there's an authenticity. There's a vibrancy. Like this is the least dated piece of art from any year. I think you're right about that. I've ever heard.

I think you're right about that. It's crazy like how much this stands up. It's almost like it's exactly like it came out there. Now, could you, it's kind of blue a more beautiful record. Is it a more romantic record? Is it a better record? Yes. Oh, okay.

I'm going to say maybe. Okay. I want, if there are any statisticians listening, please compile how many maybes or evens Peter's done with the kind of blue and how many fives Peter's put on the stovometer?

Because I think it's pretty much every episode now. If you look at my resume, you might think I was a part-time smooth jazz musician because some of the artists I've worked with. But I am not a smooth jazz guy. Sorry that you're a smooth jazz guy and you love K-O-B.

Because I always say that's the first smooth jazz record. Acutrements. Man, I'm going to go 10 on this one. I'm going 10 as well. No, you have eight. You have not? You have nine, but I opted. I'm excited about this.

I opted. I'm now excited, and I think the cover. The cover's perfect. Covers perfect. You know, I mean, nine, ten. So shout out S. Neil Fujita, who was an incredible graphic designer. He did timeout from this.

And a bunch of other Columbia records, he did this one. He was a very interesting man. He was born in Hawaii, American, but of Japanese descent, both of his parents. And like, during, he was in art school in California. he was during World War II, he was interned. I mean, you talk about injustices that are all over this,

you're being addressed in this record. He was sent to an internment camp for several years and then volunteered for the U.S. Army, the very country, his country, that put him in an internment camp and went and fought in Europe for the U.S. and then went to the Pacific Theater and was an interpreter,

it was integral with the war there. And then when he came out, finished design school, was incredible. I mean, he's actually designed the cover for the paperback, or I guess the hardcover too, for the Godfather, the first Godfather, which is one of the most iconic novels ever artwork. He did Cold Blood, the book by Truman Capote.

In Cold Blood? In Cold Blood, exactly. And did a bunch of amazing things of Columbia Records. It's an incredible cover. Beautiful cover. Because, look, we talk about the musicians, the art, that is the crux of it, but when we talk about the engineers, the producers,

the cover out, we don't give that enough, do sometimes and that's our bad but Peter already got up next man I got just because of the Duke Ellington like hovering above like this you talked about the orchestration the composition the influence

I got Duke Ellington piano in the background which came out I believe in right the next year either 60 or 61 same year as as um anyway that's one of Duke Ellington's weirder records but I love that record can we got to do an episode on like if I was going to recommend a Duke Ellington

record to anyone one record. If you haven't checked that on piano in the background, incredible record. We got to do all the weird Duke-Ellington albums from this era on an episode. I got weird too on this one. Well, I'm going to, I kind of, I'm calling an audible here, so I'm going to put, I have a couple of suggestions. I would put money jungle up next, I think, after hearing

that caravan, I think that would be a great call. I'm also going to make a bold prediction here. So, Cecil McClor and Salvant, friend of the shows. Yes. Hopefully, front of the pod. Incredible vocalists. Released an album this year called O'Snap. And she is just as I think Mingus is so theatrical and so incredible with his themes on his on his albums.

Like that O'Snap album is one of the best albums I've heard in years and years and years. And like her, she paints such vivid pictures with everything she does. The album before this too, the French album. Yeah, that was incredible. Messline or something like that. Yeah.

Also just like captivating. Yeah. And I just want to shout out Cecile. I've never met Cecile. I'm such a huge fan. I hope eventually that she comes and does something here with us at Open Studio because she's so amazing. And I just think she has this thing too

of like not just like, we're gonna, now we're gonna just burn on some tunes, which she can do. Yeah. But I'm gonna- She does an amazing voice where she could just do whatever she wants. Yeah.

But she really is an incredible storyteller, an incredible artist. And I think you could tell she cares passionately about actually saying something going against the stream of what a lot of her contemporaries would not be doing. Agree.

which would be just like, I'm just going to do straight down the middle every time. She is almost never straight down the middle. She's always... She's always thinking outside the box. And so I just want to shout out Cecil on that one. Great. That's a fantastic call. Yeah, oh, snap's great. I'm voting for that.

I'm sure it'll be on the gram. I'm going to be voting for that. It's incredible. Oh, sorry. I'm supposed to say we're voting for. It's unbelievable. Yeah, anyway. How about some...

How about a little... A little gala love? So we've been getting some great podcast reviews. Thanks, everybody who's left a rating and review. We do have an agreement here. We give you this podcast for free, except it's not free. It's not free, sir.

It's expensive. A.F. It costs you your time and effort, because wherever you... Our listeners are so great. Their time and effort, they bill... Listen. Like our friends at DeBosier and DeBosier,

they're billing $500 an hour. Wait, that's probably low nowadays. We have rich folks as listeners, rich in both, I'm sure, monetarily and spirit, easily. But please take your valuable time and leave us a rating and review.

wherever you get your podcast from whether that's youtube apple podcast spotify here's one from stitcher nope here's one from strange brain pure music nerdism at its finest oh your nerdism needs that was just for you strange brain here's one from hail yo super oh oh but an umlott on the oh hell you super various topics incredibly well researched shout out liz and always enriched by personal views amazing uh i like that that's that's that's that's he's Is that a compliment sandwich there a little bit? It might be. Enriched by personal views.

They are not journalists. Here's one, here's a review, five stars from sings and drinks in the UK as a lifelong museo and sometimes part-time jazz singer. This podcast hits perfectly for me. I love the raw enthusiasm these guys have for the music.

Then there are probably two levels of music geek up from me so I can enjoy their harmonic analysis and historical nuggets. I spent a long train journey doing a deep dive on Stevie Wonder with their album reviews which got me hooked. that makes me feel great. Combo of jazz, popular jazz, jazz,

jazz influence, pop is perfect. I think Uzo just like, or sings and drinks UK just nailed it there. Can I do this last one? Yeah, please. That was great. Thank you from Bishomo. Bishomo.

You both have enriched my musical life so much by turning me on to things I may have overlooked over the years and reminding me of the amazing records I wore out years ago. I'm sorry, are you texting something? Have you got another podcast to go to? Sorry, I wasn't paying attention.

What did you say? I love experiencing for the first time and re-experiencing music with you both. I can't thank you enough. Well, you know what? Your review and your adherence to gala, the gentleman and ladies' agreement is much appreciated.

Bishu-mo. Yeah, Peter, I'm sorry I'm on my phone, but I was just looking up something here, hold on it says, right here it says, until next time. You'll hear it? Yeah, that's what it says. Oh, okay.