You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - More On Transcriptions - #9

Episode Date: September 6, 2018

In today's episode, Adam and Peter discuss some more advanced concepts on the process of transcribing solos. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

I'm Anna Menace. And I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to the You'll Hear It Podcast. Daily Jazz, advice, and banter coming at you. And banter. Well, it's Thursday. I like to change it up a little bit. You're going to banter with me today?

Well, the thing is, advice. Yeah, we do give advice, but we don't give it everything. Sometimes we just banter back and forth. So I want to be truthful. Truth in podcasting. And sometimes you just feel like banter. You're just like, I'm tired of advising. But banter is not a fighting thing, is it?

No, no. No, no, no. Yeah. So today, we actually have a. question. This is a follow-up question to an episode we did a couple weeks ago about transcription. Yeah. It's from Charles. Charles says, hello, gentlemen. Thanks so much for answering my question on practicing voice leading on the piano. I have two questions. It may wind up taking two separate podcast. We'll see about that. Charles. We'll be the deciders of that. Okay, so he says,

you just did a podcast on transcription. It was a very good podcast on how to get started and the benefits from doing so. My question is, what do we do after we've learned the transcription, playing it through all 12 P's an option, pulling out licks and phrases. Yeah, what else can we do beyond those two options? How can we better transfer what we hear in our heads to our instruments? That's the separate question. Which we kind of talked about. Yeah, but I think we can expound, expand on that a little bit.

So, yeah, Charles, we'll try to get to both these questions. We'll focus mostly on the transcription part because we did kind of talk about getting started and sort of the things you can do to begin your transcribing journey. But once you've transcribed something, Peter, what do you usually do with that new found information. Well, I love just playing it. Yeah. I love to play it. Now, this thing about taking it through all 12 keys, to be honest, I've never done that. I mean, I've taken phrases. I've taken certainly voicing, different things that I've learned through all 12 keys. I don't think I've ever taken a complete solo. But that would be great. It would be a pretty, pretty hefty feet.

That would be a hefty feet. Like a minute and a half solo through all 12 keys. I remember taking a baseline I learned of Percy Heath's through all, like one course that I transcribe. Yeah, yeah. through all 12 keys. Like, I think certain things like that can be really good. But, yeah, I love to play with it. And, like, what you were talking about yesterday was a great reminder about this, when we were going over the, the, the, the, and Kelly solo to get the speakers going in the physical space.

Yeah. And just play along with the soul. Just play along with it. Because, look, for one thing, you've got a reward now for, excuse me, for just a minute, Adam. Is that the first sneeze ever on the, you'll hear it part? First ever sneeze. We are so healthy.

What's going on now, man? It might be something in the pod cave, maybe some mold in the pod cave. There might be a little mold in the pod cave. Andrew, mold abatement. Come on, Andrew. Put it in the trllo. Okay, so, yeah, so get some speakers set up and just play along with it because you deserve a reward. Learning a solo is a big accomplishment.

It's a lot of work. Yeah. And the fun part is kind of after you learn it and the profitable part for you playing and maybe even the profitable part of your burgeoning jazz career is going to be from applying it. But I think for a while, you just kind of want to ride the wave. It's kind of like, you know, you're a surfer. Have you ever surf before, Adam? I have tried, yeah.

I wasn't very good at it. In St. Louis? Probably not. No, okay. Quite. Yeah. Oh, me too. That's right. But, you know, you do all the work to get out there and then to find the right wave to not get bitten by a shark and all that stuff.

And then you finally get the wave, you miss one, you fall down, whatever. Finally, you get standing up, you're on the wave. That's when the fun starts. So just ride that wave, enjoy the scenery. And that's what I think playing the solo. And I love this idea of doing it with the speakers because you're continuing your learning, even if you know it really well.

And the first thing is once you start playing along with it, you're going to realize you made some errors. So that's a good time to go back and kind of fix things because you're going to hear it clashing with the original. Yeah, I think playing it and playing it is really the next step once you really have learned it. Learn how to play it just like that person you transcribed. the kind of next level on this is to perform it.

You know, if you have, I remember, and this is kind of you have to be at a certain stage. You have to be at a certain stage in your career, but I've actually heard good musicians like, quote, a little longer than you might think. Right, as in the whole chorus. As in the whole chorus. No, but our friend Sid Rodway, who's a bass player. Yeah. He used to play tenor saxophone, and he was actually really, really good tenor saxophone player. And we had a gig when we were teenagers that was like in this small coffee shop, whatever.

and he had learned every solo from Sonny Rollins and Saxophone Colossus. And I think I learned two of Tommy Flanagan's solo from like St. Thomas and Blue 7 or something, right? And so we played the album. And he played the whole thing. I mean, that's like on some next level. But I have done that before I call a tune of a solo like when I was younger of a solo that I just transcribe. Yeah. That I've been practicing.

Yeah. And tried to actually perform it because that's a whole other thing. In front of an audience. In front of an audience. Real time. Or even just in front of the other musicians at a jam. Am session. You know what I mean? It's like, are they looking at me? Am I going to pull this off? Especially if they might know it, if it's a famous solo? Like if you pull out Witten Kelly's

Freddie Fruit, you better be swinging on it. That's right. And if you get it rolling, you better take it to the end there. Don't. Yeah, don't bail. You only learn the first two chorus. There's only four choruses, dude. Come on, man. So I think that's great advice is to just play it and play it and play it. Yeah, yeah. And I think that in terms of your development and what you really can get out of learning a solo, you know, like we talked about in the first, episode, the main thing is about, I believe, is about the process in what you get out of it in terms of ear training. That that's actually, you know, depending on what stage you're development you're in, is the most valuable thing that you're getting out of it, not the end

result. So by the time you've gotten to the end, though, you've already gotten a lot of that. But by playing it, like some people make the mistake, I think, of learning the solo, getting it and then moving right on to something else. First of all, you need that kind of ebb and flow in your practice because it's such an intensive thing, especially if you're trying to do it relatively quick. I mean, I remember I used to try to learn solos in a week, like every solo. And certain solos, you could do that if you had the time. And then other ones were just, I mean, it was a lot of pressure to do that. So give yourself some time just playing along. And then that's, I think, when you really start to get some of the stylistic things that maybe you started to get,

but you're able to put together. Because, you know, the transcription thing, I like to do it phrase by phrase as much as possible. So you're getting, it's a little bit isolated, but then you start to link it together. But now you've got the whole. thing. So you start to see like how the phrasing, you know, kind of unites throughout the solo and how the architecture of the solo. And do you like all my... I do. My hand gestures are good. Is that helping? But no,

I love this idea, though, because also there are probably some concepts, not just with the phrasing, but if you take the time to really play it over and over again, you know, some concepts will sink in. Yeah. You know, some licks, some ways... Take the time to play it over and

over again. That's a nice, nice singing man. Yeah. But, no, this actually brings to me what I was, brings me to what I was thinking next, which is what I usually do when I've learned it and I've played it over and over again. Things will just naturally pop out at you that resonate with you. Not everything is going to from every solo, but there's certain, you know, whether that's a lick or a voicing or a concept. Yeah. That you can then, that's when I'll take it through all 12 keys. I'll take that concept or that lick that I know like, oh, that.

that's going to be a part of me. Yeah. You know, and maybe I'll even take the concept and I'll expand on it, you know? Like, it could just be a five-note run, but I know that like, oh, if I can turn that into major, I can turn that into dominant, I could turn that into minor. Yeah. You know, something like that where I'm like, okay, I'm really working on this one little thing. Yeah.

Working it through all 12 keys and now it's going to be a part of me. I think that's good. I think that's good, too, especially for piano and really for every instrument's a little bit different. but there's always going to be some challenges technically and then that will challenge you as you go through the different keys with that phrase to make the adjustment so that you can still have the articulation and phrasing the way that you learned it

because it's not going to be maybe laying, it's definitely not going to lay the same way on the piano. I mean, I think about the guitar. Sometimes they can kind of get away with just a little sliding up, you know, if there's no open strings or whatever, but I don't think you can always do that with a complicated phrase. I don't think it's going to stick. either.

Yeah. But so for example, so like, I mean, piano, it's like we got to change fingerings. We got to, it's not just about learning the notes and being able to play in the other keys, it's being able to get your hands in those positions to be able to execute that phrase in the same way. Exactly. Yeah. So, for example, I remember transcribing a Charlie Parker solo, and I remember up until then any kind of bebop lines, I'm going to try to reach over here.

I'm on the bass section of the piano here, but any kind of bebop lines, if I were to do like a turn, it would always be a triplet. You know, something like that. Yeah. were 16 notes. It's more of a morden than a turn. Yeah, more of more. It really is, actually. And so just that concept was worth me transcribing that whole solo,

because now I can take that to so many. I mean, it's not just the specific lick that Britsch right where he did that, but now I can use that everywhere, you know. Well, that's, I think you brought up a great point, too, because you said, learned the entire solo for that. A lot of people skip that and go into the one little part of the solo, but by learning the entire thing, you get the context of it.

So, yeah, and people are always asking us about that, you know, can I just, can I just transcribe the parts that I like? And I'm like, no, you learn the whole solo. I mean, if you want to do it the right way, because none of this, that lick does not exist on its own. It's like, what did he play before that? What did he play after? And he's going to play it again or develop it or something.

And that stuff is so valuable. Then you can go back and break down the little parts of it. I think there are two different kinds of transcribing we're talking about because you can just do things where you're listening to music, You hear something, you want to grab it. I do that sometimes. But if you really want to get, like you said, the full effect of the phrasing and the structure and the architecture and the feel and how that person played it, you kind of have to go through the whole thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, that's great. Charles. Thank you for the question and the follow-up. You know, we had a lot of feedback on that transcription episode. I remember people like that. And I think it's something that in some ways we all struggle with because it's not necessarily. I think it's, yeah, I mean, it's difficult from the standpoint of it takes just a lot of time and work. It's one of those, it's labor intensive.

Yeah. It's like it's not the little flourish part that you do. It's like the grind. But if you remember, the most important thing is remember that the process is what it's about the process. So when you get to the end, you know, you've gained so much. But it's the kind of thing, you know, the kind of knowledge and development that takes a little bit of time to come out in your playing. So don't feel like, wow, I'm not a totally different person. know, you will be. It'll be months later, then that stuff starts seeping in organically. That's

when it gets really exciting. Those phrases come out, you hear it on a recording that you did or something. Like, wow, that was cool. And you played it in a different key or whatever, different situation. Love it. Yeah. Do we want to get to Charles's second question here? We want to save it. Well, I think we want to save it. I think Charles was on to something. He's like, it's going to be, we thought we were going to get it in here as this, as this. But I think we're good. No, we're good. We'll save this for another episode, your question about hearing, playing what we hear. Yeah. Cool. Now, one thing is I've been talking all week and I've been a little derelict in my duties here about the ratings and reviews because I sort of fell off. I mean, but I don't

want people to think they're not important because they are important to us. Tell the people why they're important. Well, they help the podcast sort of get passed around and get recognition. Yes. And help us get more listeners and help us keep this going. So we appreciate any ratings and reviews that you may give us. Because, you know, it is a free podcast, but But it costs money here. Look, we got new mics. What is the mic company? We got to get in touch with it.

Avantone, man. Because this sounds beautiful. They're the best. Sounds so beautiful, don't you agree. I agree. Okay, so three days ago, Adam, I don't know if you're up on this. We got a lot going on. We haven't had a chance to talk about this.

We had a 12-star review. That's interesting because it's technically you can only leave five in iTunes. Okay. And we've asked for seven. Okay. And so I think, well, let's just read it. This is from guitar teacher from the United States of America on iTunes. Oh, the guitar teacher?

Well, guitar teacher, yeah, apparently. The title of this, it's five stars. Okay. Okay, but then the title is a 12-star review. That's what I'd like to hear. Yeah. I gave this podcast five stars several months ago, but I've been lazy about writing a review until now.

All the content has been fantastic and fun and helpful to me as a musician and a teacher, but what really impressed me was the attention to detail on the recent best of episodes. Most podcasters will just run old episodes, episodes during a hiatus, but you guys took the time to edit and remix your discussions into something new and interesting. I even dug the backwards tape effects that punctuated each section.

I'll take credit for that. Yeah, well, that was you. With this review, I'm adding seven new stars to the existing five, one for every key. I hope you guys can handle it. Keep up the great work. It's like a chromatic star scale. It is, yeah. And first of all, yes, we can handle it.

Absolutely. And we will keep up the great work. Thank you so much, guitar teacher. That's right. And yeah, no, I was really digging that, too. I think I shot you a text. I meant to when I heard that, the rewinding.

That's a cool thing. Thank you. So if you guys missed that, it's on every episode, I think, right? It is, yeah. And that was last week, last week, right? Yeah, we did, you know, because we picked, we picked themes, and then we picked topics to go on, episodes that fit into that theme and just little conversations.

We needed something to go between the conversations. Yeah, big shout out to Adam, And Andrew and Eli are expert engineers here who did that, that attention to detail. And I'm glad you impressed with that work. I can tell you I had nothing to do with it. I was paying attention to some trails in Colorado as I hikes with my family. Lucky you. That's what the boss gets.

Someone's got to do it. Someone's got to do it. But thank you so much. So please keep the ratings and reviews because our eagles need it. The podcast need it. It's like fuel in the fire, baby. So true, man. So everybody have a happy Thursday.

and we got anything else? I'll do it. Okay. You'll hear it.