You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - Most Unique Pianist In Jazz?

Episode Date: September 21, 2022

Adam and Peter talk all about one of the most unique pianists in jazz. Ahmad. Jamal. Have a question for us? Leave us a SpeakPipeCheckout courses from Adam, Peter and more at Open StudioLet us know what you think by leaving a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review, or head over to our YouTube channel.Follow us on Twitter | Instagram

Hey, Peter. Yes. And would that be something you might be interested in? Yes. Yes. Yes. I'm Adam Ennis. And I'm Peter Martin.

And you're listening to the You'll Hear at podcast. Jazz Explained. Jazz Explained. It's our tagline. Jazz Explained. You know what? It's not just a tagline. It's a way of life.

It's a lifestyle. I mean, you could sum it up best actually by saying something like... I mean, just play the right note. Just play the right notes. We could. We could. But I think that, yeah, Jazz Explained, Jazz Discuss. jazz

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You'll hear at YouTube channel We're putting every I'm looking at you We're putting every episode. Peter, do you know this? We're putting every single episode up onto YouTube. That's a lot of... That's a lot of commitment to you.

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I am Luke, you are my fodder. Sounds like a cover band playing at the bar down the street. Wait, I'm going to add it to my list of great band names. We're going to talk about that. I got a good list, by the way. Avocado is in a lot of them for some reason. This is Marty Daly's thing. You know,

friend of Martin Martin D. This is what he does. Friend of the pod. Absolutely. I've got my own list. But, no, fodder for the listeners. You know what fodder is? F-O-D-D-E-R. Is it, is it droppings? What is it? No, why? Fodder? Is it, what is it? What is you say? Is it, uh, what is the definition of fodder? Give fodder to, well, it is not what I thought it is. I will take that back.

It is food, especially dried hay or feed for cattle or other lives. I thought it was like fodder, like, like, I am your fodder? Well, I made that joke 30 seconds ago, but no, I thought it was, this is fodder for the other people, like things to talk about. Well, I think maybe that's it. Like some nuggets of food. Food for thought. Fodder for thought. Oh, here we go.

Fodder is not just used to describe cattle feed. We use the word to talk about other kinds of feeding that don't involve actual food. A new celebrity marriage is fodder for Gossip Magazine. That's what I meant. Okay, I'm not crazy. What's happening? Fodder. So anyway, back to my point. Fodder for our listeners is that go to the YouTube. That's good. Oh, wow. This is bad.

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Right. No kidding. Yeah, please do it. Did not know that. Yeah. Okay. Anyway, we are excited. We're coming up on a thousand episodes.

To be honest, we might have already hit it. How would we know? Because we lose count. But I think, no, we're not quite there yet. But a thousand episodes of the pods. Congrats in advance, Adam. Are you already patting me on back for something that has? hasn't happened yet. Well, in case you don't make it. Congrats. You could say the same to me, see.

Try my best. So we've got, speaking of another thing you can do, we're giving out like tasks for our listeners to do. Tasks. So you could go to you'll hear it.com and you could leave us a voice message on our speak pipe. Speaking to the pipe and leave a question. But you know what? If this is your first time listening, you're probably already turned it off by now because we're telling you to do too many different things. You can also just relax and listen to the pod. Just relax. Or just pick one of these things. Yeah, we're excited. Sue us.

But Birch, he went to Euler here at dot com and left us this voice message. All right. Hey guys, Birch here, long time listener, long time speak piper. I would really enjoy hearing you guys break down the sound and style

of Amad Jamal. He's one of my favorite musicians. He was the very first jazz concert. I was visiting New York back in the 90s. Didn't know much about the music. And I saw him at the radium and it just blew my mind. So I didn't really feel like he's a unique style. It's evolved a lot over the years.

And as a bass player, I just love his arrangements because they leave so much room for the bass to play melodically. And he used to do a little trick where the bass would be playing in two. I noticed he would lay his arm on the piano when he wanted the bass to start walking in four. And it's super effective. Anyways, hope you guys are doing well. Thank you. Amazing.

So that's like a visual cue that Bert is talking about there. Yeah. Which is a big part of when we talk about breaking down his style, his arranging is always kind of integral to the discussion of the Amad. Which is a big part of when we're talking about breaking down his style, his arranging is always, you know, kind of integral to the discussion of the Amund. Jamal Sound, you know, his orchestration both of the piano, but more so of the piano trio. I think it's the biggest part of his playing. Yeah. I think it informs everything else. I think he is one of the most unique jazz pianists in history. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. One of them, if not, I mean, possibly the most influential, especially when you talk about beyond just pianists.

Yep. And especially with the Miles Davis, you know, Miles Davis was just infatuated with his sound and his style and the way that, you know, his architectural approach to spontaneous arrangement. And so this is like the visual cues that he would make, which are not that common in jazz. I mean, we're always signaling little things, but I mean, like with the number system, with the base, he had a very sophisticated, has a very sophisticated approach to that. And so it's, you know, I think that you can't talk about, it's a great place to start talking about it, I'd say. So let's start then at that great place.

This is from, but not for me, live at the Pershing, this is been not for me. Let's listen to a little bit of this classic. any homage, Jamal, you probably know this. And what year is this? 58. Okay,

can we pause it? So this is like, this is when you really have great, and it's talking about breaking things down, when the details are so lined up, aligned within the trio, but so relaxed. And it's great because I was asking about the date

because I've got another example after we listen to this. It's also from a different club in 58. Nice. So this was very much like a trio that could play in concert halls, outdoor festival, Totally.

Amma, it's always been like, I've seen them in many different situations and clubs, but I think when we talk about this classic period and this sound, you know, with the audience there, it's even more exciting to hear that energy there and to hear the precision with which they're playing. But it's that combination of like precision technically individually and then together the way they play. Absolutely. But also just a super relaxed vibe. But if you hear the way that Amma comes in and then the way Vernal Fornier and Israel Crosby both come in at different times, but it's like, it's almost like watching a graph with boom, boom, boom,

and then it's just, they're just all there beautifully. Let's check. Oh, thanks all. I mean, it's just perfect. I kind of at this point out of facelad. You know, very, Amad's very detail-oriented. Behind the beat J. Diller right there. What about that?

Repetition, space, slight adjustments, micro-adjustments, call and response. Yeah. Oh, syncopation. Voicing. dynamics you know laying back on the beat while there's a right on the beat this is way behind the beat you know the nuances of the different registers because you've got here the piano up here the drums kind of in the middle

the bass on bottom and all the single line stuff and now this themes first block quotes right it's just all little compositions within the composition yeah oh man every time I hear this it's like I hear something new Rennel there. That accent with the sizzles. You don't hear a lot. In this entire record in Ma's career, is very few solos

that are based around burning eighth note lines. It's all thematic. It's all these melodies. But on this record, he goes in there in little places. Little places. Which makes it even more effective. It's all very well-placed. And then when he does it, it's like, oh, my. I know.

It's a lot of just restructed. rain and then like at times really going for it in a way that really heightens it even more in terms of the arrangement it's like theme of barrios so much of this oh and then amad doesn't play that with him sometimes he i mean like those choices of when to play and when not to play nobody did it better melody we just heard emmett cohen quote that on our millennial show right that's right that's like a little bit of you know little flurries there oh and if you check i mean you could just do it dynamics here big chords played very softly it's such a cool place to go to that of the race there on the way this ends

is there anything better than that it's so good man what a great so I think the perfect craft is perfect I think the two biggest manifestations of Amad's influence I mean he's so influential but there's two in particular I think about shirley horn and Miles Davis that really took his concepts and like you could just hear them, especially the kind of more nuanced ones in a great way. I wanted to play just a little bit. Did we answer the question? I can't remember the question. We were answering right now. Oh, good. What makes a mod Jamal so great? That was pretty much it, right? Well, no, it's is,

is he the most unique jazz pianist history, but it's really just an offering to break it down. Right. And for me, the takeaway here is like, everything is a theme. There's no line playing. There's no running your fingers. Everything is very precise. Yep. You know, everything is a a statement upon your expectations as a listener. It's pretty awesome, man. Especially if you consider it when this was in 1958 when everybody's, you know, doing that kind of thing around him, right?

That hard bop is ruling. And he's got those elements there. It's not like he's not going left. No. But Miles' band at this time is doing that kind of stuff. And then after this record, it's not. Yeah, exactly. Well, that's what I'm saying.

That's why you hear that, and I agree the precision. and by precision I think what we mean is not that he's playing right exactly at the time because he does know how to lay back but precision in terms of like his intentionality of when he's going to be right in the groove and then when he's going to pull it back and then when he goes goes back

like he had such an innate awareness of how that affects the architecture of the tune how that affects the arrangement and he was just this brilliant arranger and a brilliant pianist kind of all combined together And I think that's what really, you know, Miles took from it. Shirley Horn a lot. I mean, Shirley Horn took a lot of just like voicings and different things and approaches to playing trio that I think are great.

Can I play one track? We don't have to listen to the whole thing. I just wanted, I was thinking about this intro and how it sort of typifies Ahmad's style to arranging these standard tunes. This is Old Devil Mood, which, I mean, to me, has never been my favorite tune. Am I allowed to say that? I'm 52 years old now. It's your show, man. It's not my show.

is our show. We can say whatever we want. It's a fine tune. It's just, it's not bad, not great or whatever, but this just shows how you can take something and set it up in a way where then you're open to greatness. You know what I mean?

And I love this intro. So simple, but just like the last one on the but not for me, but in a different way. I mean, of course, Point Sienna. You know, it's always like, I'm always a master of like one great idea for the arrangement and then letting the greatness flow from that. Oops, I abuted, my friend.

Should we try that again? Try it. Give it a shot. Should we give it a show? Let's give it a floor run. See how she plays. You know, kick the tires. This is great. Yeah.

What is this from again? This is from Live in the Spotlight. Same thing, 1958. Ah. I mean, come on. The space there is so incredible. Can we do that, though? Can you do a high single melodic line

without just feeling like you're ripping off a Majumol? No, but that's okay. Yeah. but this is the thing he what comes before that is what sets it up you know what I mean like a lot of people will take this and just like start right there or they'd be like oh that intro's easy and corny

no it's not yeah oh and listen to tapping his feet for the four and I mean that's just genius the way Vernel Forin it so it's like because this is like an offset it's a very simple syncopated rhythm but it because it starts on the end of one and you don't really have a reference point unless you can hear him

kind of with his which you probably wouldn't be able to if you're in the audience. So Vernal Forna let's it be, instead of being like, you know, like set up, he lets it be for a whole measure and then resets it immediately, which is kind of, you know, just a fun little thing. And then he comes in with the bass room along with it. And then he pulls back.

Everybody pulls it. And one thing that Israel Crosby is doing, right? What is he not doing? Anything else. Let it bring. Breathe, man. Let it breathe. You know what I mean? It's just like, which is...

This might be the best version of the song. A little unison. Oh, in between the walking bass line? Has there ever been a better kick drum bass player combination? The kick drum and bass of Israel Crosby and Vernal Forne, are always so locked in. And they have...

I don't know if it's the tuning of the drummer or what he uses, but they have. They've dialed that in, man. I think it's the tuning because there's a lot of potential for overlap in a bad way because... For like things to swirl around too much. Yeah, and because of the tuning. Vernel's using that bass drum

like a New Orleans drummer. You got to ask Hutch about this. He wouldn't know. Oh, for sure. But he's using it like a New Orleans drummer for accents for syncopations, for fours and stuff. And Israel Crosby is sparse in a way,

but then once he starts walking and then rejoining the melody and stuff, there's a lot of chance. I think they're just so tuned, you know, Vernel's got that bass drum tuned tuned so well, it's right there, but it's not on top of it. This is just a little more.

Uduson bass. So good. I think Herbie got this from Amad. Now, this is something that you hear Amad do, especially later on, like getting into the 80s, 70s, 80s, 90s, all his great performances, but he was already doing it then, is this idea of like getting a riff and departing from the melody.

Miles definitely got this, well, I'm assuming he got it from Amad because that's one of the people he admitted to stealing stuff and being influenced by, but where you can just get up, but up, but up, but what happens to the melody? You know what I mean? It's just like, it's like, drifting off to this cool little area like you're on the side path and then you're going to rejoin it he just skipped over that whole part of my he already played it he's a majima he's he's gonna

play it again can i play something a little bit later this is from nineteen ninety eight this is a majeumal with a sigh quartet have you ever heard this record listen to this is comp time i'm not sure james come back maybe uh he's in his 60s at this point yeah rdi dixon on drums Ah, yeah. E from Wolford on face. You know, this is like Amad Jamal with a string quartet. If my wheelhouse had a wheelhouse. No, it's such a...

I love this period of Amad, too. We're always going back to the classic, but this is... No, yeah, there's another record. You can really hear it, he's stretching out. The very first time I ever saw him live was in 1998. Yeah. You got one? No, I'm saying, pull it down a little bit so they can hear you talking.

1998, and it was with this album. Do you know this whole series, The Essence? Listen to that. Oh. So this is Devils in My Den from Nature, the Essence Part 3. This is also 98. He was so productive. Yeah.

At this in the 90s specific. I saw him live a bunch of times. Making amazing music. Oh. From the 90s to the 2000s to the Aughts or whatever they call. He's still with us. He's still with us. He's still with us.

Yeah. I mean, he retired. And then I heard he's like, oh, I've decided I'm not totally retired. He's like, I can still play. do that. But I mean, he was such a, he has been a fantastic, like, headliner on jazz festivals around the world because he's a Majjab. Yep.

But also because he's just known to have, like, he's super professional. Like, he brings, you know, even as he's gotten older, he brings his A game. In fact, he cancels if he doesn't have his A game for whatever reason. Like, he's just known as that. So promoters and concert impresarios love to have him, like, they know they can count on him. him to be Ahmad Jamal, which is not always the case with all of us, you know. But I'll just throw a quick story out before we leave the Amad Jamal episode, as we must. We don't want to, but Ahmad's music is here and Amad is still here.

No, but the first time I met him was in Italy in the early 90s, mid-90s. And we were coming from this festival and like we were waiting on the ride to take us back. And I had actually just heard Amma play. He kind of played last on the same stage we had played earlier. And I was so excited. But then we're like waiting for the ride. And finally they got like this van. But it was like really tight and the driver.

And you know, we were all kind of like drug. And I got in the van. And we got to get up at three in the morning to travel. I get in the van and kind of going to the back. Who's sitting in the back of the van over at the corner Amad Jamal. And I was like, wow. Okay. What?

He's driving with us. They're like driving us all back, you know, late at night. And so I was like, well, I'm going to go sit next to Mr. Jamal. And I went over and introduce my. myself and but I was also realized I was like complaining about the van and then all of a sudden he's just sitting there relaxed peaceful a legend that's what made me realize I was like I ain't got nothing to complain but I sat next to him and we ended up talking I didn't want to push it I just

sort of talked a little bit and and you know he had actually heard us play and was like really complimentary and we just had a great discussion about piano and him and he was just he was exactly like he sounds on the music it wasn't like one of these things where he just like get away from me little dude or whatever he's a great guru he was going to have a guru he was So just cool and, you know. I have a little shrine in my piano to, like one of my most prized possessions is a, uh, a Jimmy Katz original print of a mod, you know, like sunglasses on black and white, you know, that Jimmy Katz look.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I love it so much, man. Awesome. All right. Oh, stays on my piano. Uh, let's go out with something from 2017. Okay. So this would have been when he was 85, a young whippersnapper at 85.

That's right. Yeah. That's right. This is Marci. featuring Abdel Mali. You know this? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Beautiful.

From the album, Versailles from 2017. Yep. Thank you, Mr. Jamal.