You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - "Music of My Mind" – Stevie Wonder

Episode Date: March 2, 2026

What happens when you let a musical genius make the album of his dreams? You get Stevie Wonder's Music of My Mind (1972), the start of the greatest run in music history. Music of My Mind would be the first of a five-album run that formed Stevie Wonder's Classic Period, including Talking Book (1972), Innervisions (1973), Fulfillingness' First Finale (1974) and Songs in the Key of Life (1976).In this episode of You'll Hear It, jazz pianists Adam Maness and Peter Martin dive into every track on Music of My Mind, listening to isolated stems and breaking down the theory behind the songs. Plus - we talk about TONTO, the one-ton synthesizer Stevie used to create this record. And we dig into the innovative ways Stevie and collaborators Malcolm Cecil and Robert Margouleff mixed the album.-------------------------------Start your free Open Studio trial for ALLLLL your jazz lesson needs: https://openstudiojazz.com/yhi-------------------------------Related You'll Hear It episodes:Talking Book: https://youtu.be/ymcy3ot116w  Innervisions: https://youtu.be/mUYwIijL7s0Songs in the Key of Life: https://youtu.be/uk5x4-uTzj8 -------------------------------About You'll Hear It:In this popular music series, You'll Hear It, Adam and Peter break down the greatest albums of all time. Stevie Wonder, Michael Jackson, Joni Mitchell, D'Angelo: Jazz is the foundation of the most GENIUS music in recent history. These seasoned jazz pianists bring their deep musical knowledge to every joyful episode to help you hear the hidden qualities that make music AMAZING. You'll never hear music the same way again.-------------------------------Like the jam at the end of the show? Head to https://youtube.com/@OpenStudioMusic for more.00:00 - Stevie Wonder's Music of My Mind03:40 - Breaking Free: The Motown Contract Story05:35 - Finding TONTO: Malcolm Cecil & Robert Margouleff08:45 - What Was TONTO? The Technology Explained09:20 - How Stevie Wonder Met Cecil & Margouleff12:00 - "If You Really Love Me" - Stevie's Motown Sound16:40 - What Albums Belong in the Run?19:10 - "Love Having You Around"22:20 - Isolated Breakdown: Vocals, Talk Box, Rhythm Section27:35 - Stevie Made Albums Different32:10 - "Superwoman (Where Were You When I Needed You)"36:25 - The Greatest Transition EVER41:45 - Innovation Behind the Mix44:10 - Ad Break: Learn to play like Stevie Wonder45:18 - "I Love Every Little Thing About You"52:55 - "Sweet Little Girl"56:14 - "Happier Than the Morning Sun"1:00:53 - Find more performances from Adam and Peter at Open Studio Music1:01:58 - "Girl Blue"1:09:28 - "Seems So Long"1:11:49 - "Keep on Running"1:15:52 - "Evil" - The biggest moment on the album1:21:10 - This One is for the Math Nerds About Music 1:23:05 - Categories1:29:05 - Better Than Innervisions? / Up Next1:32:05 - More from You'll Hear It: You'll Read It1:32:40 - Open Studio plays "Superwoman"

May 13th, 1971, Stevie Wonder turns 21 years old, and his Motown contract expires on the spot. For the first time in his life, he's free. No more producers telling him what to play, no more Motown formula. Two weeks later, he shows up unannounced at a studio in New York, knocks on the door, and asks to meet a thousand-pound synthesizer named Tonto. He proceeds to play everything himself, drums, keys, bass, harmonica, vocals, all Stevie. The back of this album literally reads This album is virtually the work of one man

This is music of my mind And Stevie Wonder is finally free to fly Every day I want to fly my Every day I want to fly my And every day I want to get on my camp I'm Adam Ennis And I'm Peter Martin And you're listening to the you'll hear it podcast

Music Explored Explored Brought to the day by Open Studio Go to Open StudioJazz.com For how your jazz lesson needs Peter works We're going to explore the hell out of this record. Hills, yeah.

Stevie Wonder's, 1972, music of my mind. It feels like, and I know it's not, I know at this point he'd made 14 albums before this one. Yeah. But it feels new. It feels like the start, it feels like an emerging artist somehow,

even though Stevie had already been making music for a decade. Right, right. But I mean, it kind of is. It's like, it's a segue. I think it's a pivot point. point. It's, this is the launch pad. I want to, I want to nominate that we call it the quiet launch pad of his classic period and we'll debate what, what is inclusive of that. So all the way up through, well, let's not even, let's not go against each other yet. But I mean, what we do definitely agree on,

I think most people do is that this was the beginning of a classic period. How far that goes is, is an interesting question. But I say quiet launch pad because this was like, I mean, the record doesn't start out quiet. You can hear that out. It's so good. And quality wise. And like, this was kind of a revolutionary record from a technological standpoint, from a sonic standpoint, from people's expectations of Stevie Wonder in those 14 previous albums. But this was not, there was no big hits on this,

no Grammys, you know, which basically, this was the only record over a 20-year stretch from before this all the way up to, I think like in square circles or something, into the 80s. Yeah. That he didn't have Grammys and or hit singles from every record except this one.

I mean, it's almost like this was the Pertif this was this was like The Amos Bouch. The Amuse Bouch This was like everybody was like Wait what is going on With music on this album Like what is happening here It felt it had to have felt

I wasn't alive But it had to have felt so fresh and so new I'm an artist that you kind of already have known It must have taken people back But you're right It is kind of weird that there were no huge hits from this Yeah I mean Great songs

Just no enormous hits for whatever reason And yeah crazy that there were no Grammys for this He started winning Grammys in the very next album Talking Book and then, you know, won like three album of the year, Grammys in the 70s. It was incredible. Yeah, the next three, I think, all won Grammys. And Talking Book actually came out 72 as well, so it wasn't like... Same year.

You didn't have hits that year. Well, we'll talk about that. And the year before. It's not like he went into this run of albums that he's about to make and just like, here's this album, and here's this album, and here's this album. A lot of people might not know that, you know, these tracks were done over, you know, the albums were done with different tracks over different periods of time. It's like all these sessions,

just a bunch of songs. Right. So, right, exactly. So let's get into that. So we're talking about May. I'm going to take you back to a little time that you might not remember due to not being bored yet. But I was there. I was but a infant.

Yeah, what do you remember about 72? Not a lot, but I'm going to take you back even more, 1971, right? So Stevie Wonder turns 21. His Motown contract expires on his birth date. That was part of the deal. Moton throws a big party for him. Barry Gordy, the whole thing. I'm sure there was the hope and expectation, although probably,

pretty dim that Steve was going to resign immediately with Motown and they're going to keep on making hits and everyone's going to be making money and everything. That's not what happened. The day after the party, Stevie's attorney served Barry Godian Motown with a notice that says he's out of contract, this is over, we're doing our own thing, you know, in what would become one of the saviest business decision in the history of the recording industry and what would become a template for many other huge superstar contracts up to this day, Taylor Swift and everything. We talked about this when we talked about. about the songs in the Key of Life episode.

We talked about the charts on the songs in the Key of Life, but a lot of people don't give Stevie credit for, I mean, he's obviously a musical genius from a very young age, but don't forget, he started in the music business at a very young age, and he is incredibly savvy at the business part of this. And this deal, I think, is really a testament to that. That he bet on himself, and he ultimately won.

Yeah. Yeah, and I mean, he was like, you know, it was a 2% royalty rate. He'd made a bunch of money as, you know, before he was 18 and then even through when he was 21 with his contract, but it was on a really low royalty rate, which was pretty typical at that time, but he was able to get a deal all the way up to 14%,

which I don't think had been done. It's awesome. And he was also able to retroactively get back half of his publishing that they had been holding back on him for that time up to them because he'd been writing all this incredible. I mean, he deserves all of it and more. Yeah, yeah. But what happened was just a couple of months before this,

a record came out that was called Zero Time by this thousand-pound synthesizer and a couple gentlemen, Malcolm Cecil, and Robert Margileff, who had the band Tonto as well and expanding headband, I think was the name of the band. Yeah, yeah.

And they made this record zero time, and it was not like a huge hit or something, but Stevie Wonder heard it. And I just want to play them kind of talking about this as opposed to me fumbling my way through the history because there's some great interviews that are out there from the principles. There's going to be three individuals

that kind of had their hands. Obviously, Stevie Wonder had his hands all over this record, but there's two other folks as well. The first album is actually the first alternative album in, I guess, was 1971, wasn't it? Yeah, 19701. Tonto's expanding headband, zero time. And it was put out by Herbie Mann, who had a label called Embryo, which was distributed by Atlantic back then. And that was how Stevie Wonder came to find us, was through that album. He wrote up at Media Sound one day with the album under Winer. and a friend of ours on the other arm.

A fellow called Ronnie Bainke. Yeah, we didn't leave the studio for five years after that. Amazing. It's so great. By the way, a lot of buzzwords from the late 60s, early 70s in there. Herbie man. Herbie man, yeah, shout out. Embryo records.

Come on now. That was like his vanity label on there. Yeah, it's great stuff. Yeah, so this record, Stevie, I mean, he had just heard it, well, it could have been before March because it came out in March of 71. But I just want to give you a little bit of a sample. You're ready to have your head expanded? Hit me.

with an incredible expanding headband. Did you put something in the coffee here? Yes. Excellent. This is some of the more accessible part of the record I was able to find to just to let you know. But I mean, it's, you know, they're electronic artists who are trying to do that today. I know, I know. And I mean, we think about, I mean, yeah, of course, this sounds dated in a way.

I mean, it's sort of places at a time maybe like a documentary is going on about, you know, some plants that were transported from one continent to another into a lebo. with a fancy accent or something. But I mean, I think what you can hear because just a couple months later, this is happening. Literally, like in May, when he goes in the studio over Memorial Day weekend,

holding their record, this zero-time Tonto record, saying, are you the guys who made this? I want to get access to that machine. I'm Stevie Wonder. I have some ideas about what I can record. He's only like 10 days out of his contract. And like they said, they go into the studio then for five years

and make some of the greatest recorded music of all. time. Man, I love that you just framed that Tonto like that. Can you play that album again one more time? Yeah. The whole thing. As we venture deeper into the Amazon for the Veminist Ghetto. Doesn't it sound like that would be it?

Totally. Totally. Totally. The music to some grainy documentary. Right, right. What it might have, yeah, might have led to Stevie's Secret Life of Plants a few years later. Oh, yeah. But I think Stevie, okay, so there's the technology of this. So it's like, what is Tantel? There was synthesizers before this, right? But

Tonto was a very special thing because it was, you'll see some graphics of this, they might scare you, make you think you're in Star Wars or one of those other shows from that time. Battlestar Galactica. I mean, I assumed if it was a synthesizer, it looked a lot like what we have on the table here, which is, you know, two octaves

and it weighs about six pounds, maybe. It cost about 300 bucks. It was a tonne, my friend. It was priceless, literally. It's in a museum in Canada. I really want to go. Can we take a field trip? Let's go. Let's do a field trip. Let's do a Tonto trip, yeah. But yeah, so anyway, so there's Cecil and Marguliffe, these two guys were instrumental

to everything that happened on this record because basically when Stevie shows up, they did have a mutual friend, this guy, Ronnie Blanco, I love that name. Isn't that somebody who's going to drop you off? Ronnie Blanco? Yeah. So he was playing bass, I guess, with Stevie.

They had some gigs on Long Island or something and somehow Stevie's talking to him or whatever he finds out. He's like, oh, I know those guys. And Steve's like, can you please take me to them? And it was over the Memorial Day weekend and one of them, I can't remember I think it was, I think Malcolm Cecil lived in the building or something.

He said he was like getting out the shower and he looks out. And Stevie's wearing a, he describes it as a green pistachio suit. Amazing. Holding the album. Amazing. And like, they could have been like, no, come back. We're closed. And he's like, no, I'll come down, open up the studio.

And like, they just started creating. They cut like 17 songs that first weekend. Oh, my God. That span not only on music of my mind, but all the way to fulfilling this first finale. Well, it's a little bit unclear what the breakdown. But there's definitely stuff that they used through. throughout the classic period of those. Can we just shout out bassist Ronnie Blanco

who introduced Stevie to these guys? Right. Who doesn't play out any of this? Maybe the most important musician of the early 70s, you know, without even playing a note on these albums? Incredible. Yeah, it says bassist Ronnie Blanco

showed up with Stevie dressed in a pistachio green suits. I was having to check. I was like, was it pistachio or walma? He got dressed, ran downstairs, and invited them in to see the machine. They recorded 17 songs that weekend. Unbelievable. So you've got the technology in terms

they have this multi-timeral synthesizer. And just to show people, like, show them monophonic synthesize, which was the only thing available. Well, yeah. It means you're not playing chords. Right. Play one note at a time.

Right. Like play a C-triot. Yeah, you can't do it. Can't do it. Yeah. So Tonto was pretty much, I think there was some other things, but it was the only thing

that people could actually get to work. But again, I assume the Tonto, like this Yamaha Reeface, just had a switch where you can go from this to this? I got their mind, yeah, except it included a whole room, And by switch, it meant someone had to act. There was like a telephone operator.

And I assume it took four AA batteries like this. It did not. It took a whole village of power. So super exciting. So I want to play just one more thing of sort of how they're talking. And then we're going to get into the music, the important part. But I do think, please, I think this framing of like the technology. So Stevie's got sounds in his mind, but now he's got new sounds also.

He's already written hits. He's a great pianist, harmonize. He can play drums. One of the greatest singers who ever lived. Right, right. In fact, just that very year in 1971, his last record, which had a huge hit on it, as did many of his previous one, you might remember this from 1971. Oh, yeah. It's a great song.

Yeah. Very Motown. Very Motown. Yeah. Man. Too good. So good. This is his last record on his junior contract.

Yeah, and so, you know, obviously he already had the voice. He already had the music. He had all this. But he was hearing some other stuff. And the Motown system at that time didn't really allow for that. They were like, no, we know what works. We're about making hits. It's called Hitsville, my friend.

This isn't called Artistryville, although it was very artistic as well. And I think what you saw here, then Stevie went on a limb. He financed all this himself. He was out of contract. He, you know, found these guys. They got into the studio and, you know, we're able to make four of the most things, four to six, depending on how you count it,

four of the most incredible records of all time within just a couple of years. We talked about this on the Marvin Gay, what's going on episode that we did. Yeah. But it's like Barry Gordy and the Motown hit machine, right? This like, this camp basically, or this university. Yeah.

To make these superstars, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gay, Michael Jackson, and the Supremes, you know, inevitably, they get so good at what they're doing that they want to break out of the mold that the machine has put them in. Right. And all of them end up making this incredible art

later in their lives after Motown. But I do credit, you have to credit Motown for like, basically, like, uping the quality level of already great artists and putting them all together, too, so they were interacting with each other and, you know, talking about this stuff and learning from each other and working on music together.

and it's really unbelievable when you think about like around the same time as what's going on and then what Michael does later in the decade. It's pretty, and what Diana Ross does later in the decade, pretty amazing. Yeah, it's incredible. So one more clip of Malcolm Cecil talking about kind of what was in the air at that time. Yeah, Stevie was a keyboard player, and his principal need from us was to provide him with the sounds and the technical expertise to enable him to get what he had in his head. That's why we called the first album music of my mind, because it was music that was in his head.

He'd been carrying it around for several years because he didn't own his own publishing. And he was very smart for somebody so young. And he realized that there was a lot of money in publishing. And he decided that when he came to us that he had not written anything substantial for Motown in perhaps five years. And he had all these songs in his head. and he was just bursting to get them out. Yeah, and so it was like really fortuitous that these three met, that Stevie met up with Cecil

and Marguliffe, because they recognized as soon as he came in, I mean, of course, they know it's Stevie Wonder. Like, he's a star already, but they don't really, I mean, he's little Stevie Wonder. I mean, I don't know how in tune and how much they're keeping up. They know he knows how to make hits, right? But I don't think anybody could have predicted, like, the prodigious talent and, like,

like just outpouring that he had. So they kind of trusted that, of course, they, I think he sat down. Well, he did. He immediately sat down and they're like showing him the keyboards, not only Tonto, but all the different things they have in the studio. And they're kind of like, oh my God, we, whatever our other plans are in life, like, let's change them. This is the mission.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there was like no contracts. There was no, like, they said at one point, like six months into it, Stevie would just sort of like give them money to kind of keep the studio going. They ended up moving it down to Electric Ladyland later in the year, all the keyboards and everything, they could be in a more comfortable. But like the three of them were on a mission. And like they would come in and record.

Stevie liked to work at night, famously, still does. Like he'd come in in the evening and they'd work for 12 hours overnight. When the sun came up, they'd be done. But then they'd come back. Like that's, they just all got it. You know, so it's like one of those times. No social media to get in the way, maybe we could say. Like no distractions or whatever.

And it was an incredible thing. Well, it's interesting to hear what he just said about how Stevie was saving these songs, like the music in his mind. Because it does, you know, I mentioned in the beginning how it's like, how this feels like a first album almost. And it kind of is in that regard. If he's saving all this music, because, you know, there is this thing of, like,

an artist's first album is really, really great because they've been working on it their whole lives. You know what I mean? And then the second album is much more difficult because they got everything out in the first album. It just turns out, Stevie had about 15 albums worth of material in there. Exactly. From the time he was a kid, it's incredible.

And when we talk about music of my mind, talking book, inner visions, and fulfilling this first finale to the classic four, wait, wait, wait, those are all, like, there's overlap from 72, 73, no, 71, 72, 73, and even in the 74, probably among all those albums. There's a little bit of debate. Even among the people, there's a little bit of conflicting information. So you're not putting, you're not putting, songs of the key of life. You're not putting

secret life of plants in the classic period. No. Harder than July. Definitely not. No, no. They're great records. But not even songs in the key of life. No, no, no, because, not because they're not classic. I mean, songs in the key of life may be the culmination of the classic period. I could say that. But that was recorded in a very different way entirely in L.A., although a lot of this stuff was, that's another story. They moved everything cross-country too. But different production crew, a little bit of overlap, different process.

You know, Stevie's mature, much more people involved in the record. Like, this record is darn near one-man band. All four of those records, actually. But this is the one that has the least, you know, it has Buzz Fight Fighting on guitar, on. No. Yeah, I know I hear what you're saying about... And that one, our bear and soul. Like, otherwise...

I hear what you're saying. As long as the key life is a bigger record. I know. It's the same process, but I think there's a flag on the play there, people. Okay, there you go. Traveling. Wait, wrong sports. Yeah, sorry.

Flag on the ground. So, okay, let's talk about this. So when we talk about one-man band, I think a lot of people miss that because they think, oh, yeah, Steve, he sings, and sometimes I see him at the piano, and, you know, he can play the harmonious. really well. No, he played everything on this record. So he played drums.

He played bass. He sang. He played harmonica. He played bass on the keyboards. He played the tonto. He did all these different things. And that in itself is amazing. But you can be like, oh, I know people that are talented, they can do that.

But it's the putting it together to make it feel like a band, to make it feel like an an exciting experience at a time when the technology did not involve, like, pasting things in and being able to have automation and all. these different things. Like you had to have literally the music in your mind and then be able to be like, okay, what am I going to do first year? Yeah. You know, sometimes it was drums, sometimes it was keyboard. So I thought... I love what he does

first year on the album, too. Yeah, I'm thinking we could jump in that and then we can kind of break it down and see the different parts. Of course, it starts with love having you around. Ah, so good. What a start. What is great? Start. Have we listened to a great album that didn't start great? No.

Mama, Mama, baby, baby. Bebebe. Rolls, twirlets. All right. Drums. That's me. Every day I want to fly my... All these adlips here.

And this harmonic thing, it's very bluesy, but he immediately goes somewhere weird. To the deep line. Yeah, going up on minor fare right here. So this is kind of telling you, this is not going to be your average gospely, bluesy, jazzy. Talkbacks? Oh, move up in another minor third.

Back down. And then he pulls it all back together right here. Very gospel harmonic choice. Pulls it together. And you know what? Sounds so good. Let's repeat that part. Second verse, of course.

She'll read her right. The lyric is supposed. Every day I want to smile and your lovely brown. Say Sir Rita Wright, wrote the lyrics. Yeah. Every day I'm going to get my share. Because I know you're going to take me there. This drumming is so interesting.

It's so unique. It's so funky. It's so, like, the pocket is so him. It's so singular. Yeah. To be able to play that hard in the pocket, without like precision tempo it's not supposed to be on a great

it's so pocket and we talked about this when we listen to Intervision how it's almost preferable to some of the really amazing studio cats he was using on like songs you know well they brought in Purdy on a bunch of these tracks which is great we're not our Purdy and Purdy's like I can't do I can't replace that leave that hey so good

there's already a lot of technology on here right so much yeah but a lot of humanity that's the thing we talked about this on Intervision's as well he's able to use this technology which can seem like even when we listen to the Tonto album

futuristic and it doesn't feel that way it feels earthy and raw and real right right so good so okay I wanted just to jump back and just to sort of just to show people how this worked with the talk box and his vocals the background vocals and then the rhythm section and how he kind of brought all this to life so this is from the top

just can I do this just the vocals? Is that something that might interest you? And backgrounds. So by backgrounds you might think oh yeah he's got those three ladies that I saw him with on tour or whatever. No, this is all Stevie.

There's a little bit of Serita Wright I think on some things but not this. And so again, music of my mind. Like he's got to have all this in his imagination and then put it in one thing at a time kind of imagining what the end result is going to be. That's the beginning.

Mama mama mama, mama, baby. That's the talk box. Every day I want to fly my guy. And you can feel the groove just from his vocals, even without. And every day I want to get on my camel and ride. But you take the drums away? Ooh.

Yeah. Every day I want to shake your heart. This is improv backgrounds. It's got maybe your baby vibes the improv background. Yeah. And it's raw A.F. But it's precise.

Oh, yeah. And when my day is through, nothing to do I just sit around grooving with you. And I sing, come in love. Having you around. Amazing. Amazing.

Amazing. And staying God's around. So, while all that great stuff is happening, you've got,

here's the rhythm section. Base, and he's playing bass on keys. Roads, maybe a little whirley. I can't. Yeah. There's Worley,

yeah, for sure. This is so sick right here. And like the bass, damn, the bass is... Just a Moog bass?

Yeah. Or, uh, art bass, maybe? I think it's Moog. Oops, a little... And then here's the drums. Just so much... So much kick drum happening.

It's crazy. That's great. And you got the heavy pan from the point of view of the drummer. Woo, that bass... Damn, his bass drum is killing. And then you got the keys. We don't have great separation on that for some reason.

But yeah, just to hear the whole rhythm six. I mean, it sounds like three folks playing together, right? Should we talk about the trombone solo? Should we jump up to that a little bit? Yeah. By the way, I love the... way that I think that's a clavinet there but it's got but it's very muffled like it's on a pickup because the you know the scavenettes have different pickups like a guitar

that you can select yeah yeah and so it's on a very dark version of that pickup sounds so cool yeah it's awesome we're gonna get some great clap at the beginning of the second half too so we're gonna jump up art baron the great art baron wonderful jazz trombonist and otherwise yeah he crushes this yeah got the little chromatic horns a little harmonic areas that you He's been going back and forth. That part of his voice is magical. So good. And every time it's different.

There's almost craziness in that. Anyway, I like this. I like this album. I get it. I get it. It's very, very good. Man, what a great track, too. Great song.

I mean, it's got everything, right? It's got like... Coming out of the gate. You know what it is? You know what it is? It's also, it's like... Because he's so young, because he's 21, man, it still has this incredible youth...

energy. We talked about this and off the wall, but it's like, it feels like a young person that wants to prove himself that has something to say that's trying to change the world with this music. Man, it's so inspiring. As an old fokey, it really makes you want to get up and do something. Yeah, I mean, this output was just crazy. And then the thing about it is, too, and I might have some, some, a little bit of narrative on this too, but like the idea, we think of these albums so well crafted in terms of the sequencing of them, the combination of songs, the messaging of them, how they're laid out even from side A to side B. And they are.

There was a lot of craftsmanship that went, the mix of them, the transitions. But these were not, they didn't work on one album and then finish it. Like, you know, we've talked about the Steely Dan, Asia, Gaucho, tapestry, which was done relatively quickly. But it's like, this is an output

where you're thinking about the album, you're starting it, you might move some things around, we're not going to use this, and then it's done. This didn't have a starting and ending point. This was just like three or four years of recording, apparently they recorded over 300 songs.

And then when it would come time, Robert Marguliffe and Malcolm Cecil would go to Stephen like, hey, Motown's been called out, they really want a record, and they're like, okay, let's talk about me, we'll try this, and they would just go into the archive. Actually, can we hear him talk about this? If I can find the right thing. Well, the thing is interesting is that

we never really kept track of the hours of how long a song took, because we never really sort of worked with a concept, with Steve anyway, of ever making, now we're going to do music of my mind. This is an album. We have to do 12 songs and so forth. And then we would concentrate on doing 12 songs.

We would work for an archive for a library. We were constantly in the studio. Some of the songs we did in the first year ended up on talking book or ended up on fulfilling this. Amazing. It was really generating material for a library is the way it works. It was an archive of songs. That's a nice archive. It's a great archive.

You know, I mean, it really hits me, as you described, this setup that they had with the Tonto system. And also these two men who were, like, really helping to facilitate Stevie's vision on this. But, like, it just goes to show, and this is just a, this is a little bit of my own thing here, but how important a process, your space is, your setup is. Like, you put, I mean, nobody could have just walked in there and made this kind of music, just because the setup is great. But when you have a genius like Stevie Wonder, and you give him a space where he can just seamlessly,

frictionlessly, go, there's no friction, right? There's a drum set over here. There's a synthesizer over here. There's a clavinet there and a rhodes there and a whirly there and the vocal mic is always set up. And apparently that's what it was set up like. He could just go and really explore the space of the studio. And he does and he creates like these four amazing albums.

I don't think it happens without that frictionless. studio. No, you're absolutely right. The logistics of it are part of the artistic process. And they started out at Media Sound Studios Uptown. That's where Stevie showed up in the pistachial suit. You keep saying pistachios suit. It's like it's a really important fact. Because they've said it like seven different

interview. I like that it sets the scene. I do. But part of the reason they moved famously down to Electric Lady Studios, of course, Jimmy Hendry's studio, voodoo would be a bunch of great things. Yeah. Was about this very concept. You're talking about frictionless. They didn't use that word, but check this on this. He could find his way

around there. And when Jimmy passed, there was a studio, and it was like with Malcolm, me and Stevie, it was like putting our shoe in a ready, our foot in a ready-made shoe. We were able to get in there and to really get to work. It was beautiful environment to work. We started 4.30 in the afternoon and finish at 7 in the morning when the sun was coming up. Amazing. Night after night, holidays, birthdays, rains, sleets, summer, storms, you name it, we were there. never was we called it stevie time it was never a uh and we didn't have to leave and leave because crazy daisy toilet paper is going to be making a commercial during the day and i had to break down the drums everything could stay yeah so that was the thing that the other studio they were still doing

commercial work but they were very intentional about having the drums having the roads having the vocals a kind of microphone that stevie could feel and if he bumped into it it wouldn't everything was frictionless so that he could create it any time so that he didn't have to have a helper obviously being sight impaired he could move around the studio without anybody helping it so there was nothing getting in the way of him creating and when they moved to L.A. to the studio out there was the same thing they actually built out a whole room and started renting it by the year because they were like we just have to he's got to be able to record at any time and this is the one of the first gift the quiet launch pad that would come for over the next couple years man well

And it's amazing that love having you around that first track wasn't released as a single and wasn't a hit because it's catchy as hell. I know. The next track, though, was released as the first single on it. And this, man, this might be my favorite song. It's debatable, but this is the song, honestly, of all of Stevie Wonder. So, like, I got this on someone, someone, don't tell Stevie.

But my first listen to this was when I was 16. He's getting quiet. And someone illicit happened. A friend of mine made a tape of it. you know, a Max L recordable tape. So I didn't know... Was that a special friend that gave you a mixed tape, my friend? It was a mixed tape.

Not that special. Okay. But so I just knew it from this tape, and I didn't know what this song was, but this was a song. And I also, I was like, I knew Stevie Wonder from like, I just called to say,

I love you at this point, but I was like, you know, young and dumb and didn't know anything. Yeah. And when I heard Superwoman, the track two and the other song that is part of Super Woman. I was like,

you get two for the price of one on this one. Where were you and I needed you? Which I legit thought were just two separate songs because I was listening to it on a tape that didn't have any labels or anything. I was like, oh, we're in somewhere.

This is music that I didn't know existed. Like this whole genre of music opened up to me and it's from this next track. Yeah. Here we go. Superwoman. So he's... He fit together that weird synth intro.

It works so well. And the interlude that happens between... Dude, that's... Next slide. It's on my list. And all the things she wants to be, She needs to leave behind. Because this is almost like a You Are My Sunshine kind of track.

This part of it. You know, small. His drumming here, again, it's very unique. Yeah. Very loose. Is that chord something you'd be interested in? We're going to get into it. Follow me to the nerd.

My friend. Oh, I love that road. Man, the details. Oh, and the way he all. Very well. He alters it each time. And if you know this record, you're already looking forward to the next time of how he's going to change it. Oh, the next verse.

Oh, the next verse. They're slowly layering yet. The variation from the first verse of it, you know? That chorus on the roads? Perfect. But, hold on just a second. Best background vocals. That was background.

We're going to go back and just hear, first of all, that's some of the most copied type of background vocals, rightfully. Yeah, see, he's copying it right now. Because he's just like, but,

harmonic counterpoint. So good. And I think I can deal with it. Coming up on top? Oh. Every time. This first song, Key of E, both major and minor. And we're going to transition to the key of F sharp.

So we're going to go up the whole step. And the way he does it is genius. Oh, it's about to start. This was the end of the signal on the radio, by the way. It's a real shame. Yeah. Because what happens next is incredible. This is one of the greatest transitions ever.

It's back to the weird new synth sounds. Now we're an F-sharp major. Chorus cycles perfectly in time. Boot bass, come on. This is the greatest. Summer came, we're not around. Now the summer's gone and love cannot be found. Where will you...

Maybe his greatest melody? Man. Maybe his greatest melody. I'm reactivated. I'm reactivated on this. I mean, you and I... But this is up there. Yeah.

This is up there. What's the last song on fulfilling this? That's a great. Great trend. Rivin in the sky. Go on, Buzz. And like how he gets here without it being awkward, I have no idea. All these sins here.

It's so thick. It was so open. And how he got to someone. The mix. the guest, great solo. The guest was. So additive, too, man. Buzz.

Those little descending chromatic, yeah. To the bridge? Never allowed him to, like, shove these two songs together. We talked about this on the Talking Book album and the Intervision's album, but the chorus of synths that you're hearing there, it's not like a polyphonic pad.

That's a bunch of monosinths that he's playing like individual voices. Yeah, incredible. And that this is giving, like I can't almost comprehend. I can understand how a band playing with each other with that energy. I could not imagine putting this in one instrument at a time by yourself.

It's just, it's like mind-blowing. Not that somebody couldn't play that, but that you could give it this feel, you know? This organic, commutal feel. Vision. Man, the vocal performance, too, we don't talk about enough. I know. We can talk about it.

Like, that could be the only thing we talk about. I know. Like, that kind of is, when you talk about the one-man band, like we forget. His vocals are just revolution. They're so influential. Playful and they're so like he's just improvising these melodies

seemingly improvising these melodies, these backgrounds, all these things. He's a cool. He's got a bunch of create endings on this album. Like he, Maltaltaltalt would have made him stop right there. And they wouldn't have made him stop five minutes ago. That's true. No, it's a masterpiece. The whole thing is a masterpiece.

And on LP, this transitions right in, which is, you know. All right, so great. Can we talk about the mix on this? Absolutely. I know, because this sometimes people start to be like the mix, what is that? It's just like how the record sounds, right? So you have these incredible elements,

but what's very unique about this record and really during this time, there was not automated mixing, at least it was not readily available. Meaning, like, you know, when you see the, this typical studio look with, you know, the mini channels and all the faders, like the classic look where it's like,

the producers sitting there and the artist and you're like, should we push this up? Should we do that? That's about the levels of the different mics and the inputs and all that kind of thing. But that had to, used to be, the olden days, and I even remember this in like late 80s, early 90s, some like, you couldn't automate that in any way. So you'd have to listen back to what had been recorded once,

all the different tracks are on there, and then adjust if you want a little bit more cungas at this time, or the drums for just, yeah, for one section. Or you wanted to mute out some of the background vocals. And so especially for this kind of recording where it's not recorded live altogether, because Stevie's playing every instrument. So he's going track, you know, he'll do the drums first, maybe, then he'll add the bass, then he adds vocals, then he adds, whatever the order is it's like one at a time and then he's got all this and then it has to be sort of mixed together so they did a really interesting thing the three of them robert margoliffe um malcolm sessel and stevie wonder together mix this record and they're talking about when it came to mixing the records

steve myself and malcolm would all be at the console together and we'd all have faders and moves and stuff to do we called it armstrong automation and uh Pretty much the records were mixed that way. Yeah, so they're all like, as they're listening to it, like rehearsing probably. Yeah, you have to rehearse it. And then they also would say, like, sometimes they'd get a mix,

they like it's so good, so then they printed, they bounce it down to whatever, two track, and then they'd come back the next day, or the next night, Stevie time, and they listen to it.

They're like, oh, that's crap, let's do it again. So it was, let's be remixing it. Wow. You know, so. Very cool.

But it's such a big part of the process of like how the record sounds to the end user, to the listener, right of like how you're gonna and there's so many just cool innovative things that they did on this record so a lot of technology in there um peter i just want to just acknowledge something we are iping we're riping the reface is not working now and we don't know why and i had so much cool just no listener i was gonna lay some harmonic knowledge on you guys if you weren't planning on being drug into the nerd no you just lucked out

you know hey peter and adam here just wanted to jump in real quick and say well first of all i'm having a good time. Dude, I love Stevie Wonder so much. This might be our best episode. It's a good one. And it reminded me of how much great Stevie Wonder material we have over at Open Studio Jazz. I mean, if you're a harmony nerd, a piano nerd, a jazz nerd, a Stevie nerd, or you're aspiring or you're Stevie Wonder curious in terms of keyboard or guitar or whatever, please come over and check out our stuff. Yeah, even though the little keyboard that we had here died, I actually have two lessons on my Harmony Games course, Peter, just on this album, music in my mind. I have one on all of the modal interchange on the album. And I have a full lesson on the last track, Evil, how Stevie Wonder

brilliantly modulates around that song. They're great lessons. I've also got a whole course called The Harmony of Stevie Wonder, where I can do deep dives on exactly how to play, how to decipher that beautiful harmony of Stevie Wonder. Start your 14-day free trial at OpenSudiojazz.com slash y-h-I. Go to openstudiojazz.com slash y-h-I for all your Stevie Wonder needs. Back to the show. This is going to make you feel better. We're going to go on. This does make me feel better.

Thank you. Is that a great road song? Though they say you're not my friend, you've been here through thick and thin. To girl, love you. Hell yeah. A great pre here. I'm here to say.

Open it up. What are you going to say? Did you play that chord for me, please? And I just want to tell the world Oh, you are the sunshine. A little vocal percussion. Yeah, that's great. Okay, we're going to keep going through this,

but I want to listen to, this is something I kind of missed until I came back and started listening this again. This kind of has some ASMR kind of vibes to it, the way that it's mixed. Okay. Check it out at the beginning. Like, there's, they left all the breathing in, right? But not only left it in, like, you can really hear it in the mix.

A lot of times, you know, if a singer's about to sing something, they're doing that and whether or not you leave it or not. Like now, a lot of that stuff is taken out, which is it a kind of unnatural. No, I was going to say, I really prefer when we take out all the humanity and we quantitize every drum hit. Oh, you do?

Yeah, it's the best. And how we unplug the Yamaha Reface as well. But this is the thing. So, yeah, they don't do that on this record at all. When we isolate the vocals, you can hear that. Actually, why don't we just go into the isolated ones, then we'll be able to tell. But they really leaned into it on this,

like, in terms of, like, amplifying that in the mix. And you can hear some of the breathing and then the little bit of background sounds he's doing are actually kind of percussive and part of the flow and the feel of this, especially at the beginning. So this is Fender Rhodes with the chorus. You hear that?

Though they say you're not my friend. You hear that big breath? Yeah. It's in time. And for that little girl, love. I'm here to say. Love you more each day And I just want to tell the world

It's almost like background breathing I mean, it's a song about the little things I love every little thing about you, you know? It's very intimate Though they put me down because I love you as much as I do But they don't know what you've done for me That bass is slamming to it

And I'm here to mix like that's putting it all together right it's beautiful now he's really bringing it up that whole tone scale so yeah this chorus too in the background the chorus is unbelievable oh the background playing percussional version man the bass on this Greg Philling said that Stevie wanted to change his life. He said it. So open now, right?

Let's nerd out on some background. I love, I love, never think about you, babe. Everything about to live. You know, I love, I love everything about you, but you're a little. Okay, we got to talk about stuff, Adam. I think I'm going to throw the gauntlet down now. I wasn't, I wasn't even planning on really doing that. This is a great transition on this.

this, dude. We need to just sit here and listen to the whole album from beginning of the end. That's what we should be doing. It can be a four-hour show. But this is the thing. Superwoman, basically the last three songs we just heard, Superwoman, where were you

when I needed you? And I love every little thing about you. These three songs, I think, I don't know why I'm thinking about comparing these to You Are the Sunshine of My Life, but because that came out six months later on Talking Book and was a massive hit, top ten hit, maybe number one even.

I think all three of these are stronger. song. I shouldn't say stronger. I won't hear slander on it. You are my sunshine. I would say I think I prefer these three over that. And that's not slander. Your other sunshine is a beautiful song. Everybody loves it. You're definitely allowed your preferences.

I'm just a little bit surprised. But you're wrong. At least one of these wasn't a hit as well. They're all amazing. Honestly, they're all amazing. I think Super One was the only one that was released as this. I love You Are the Sunshine so much. I know it's not as, it's a little different than these. But man, it's one of my favorite. I mean, I wouldn't you kind of categorize them? For sure. Yeah. For sure.

I mean, they're kind of small. They're greatly well-crafted songs, but they start small with... Cold-tone triads. Like we talked about with... Yeah, yeah, exactly. And we talked about with Sunshine is like, the way he's playing roads and even like drums, especially at the beginning, it's kind of like a hotel lounge,

like a really good rhythm section with this... You know, like, you go into a hotel and then you're like, oh my God, this is an incredible singer. And then you start listening... Kind of hotel lounges and you hang it out in. This is the Amon. We're talking about the Amman. No, but you know what I'm saying?

Like, great musicians can be anywhere. But they're playing... He's playing every instrument, at least at the beginning of all these, very simply, right? Very small, right? I mean, there's the synthesizer stuff on some of them that are expanding things out. But at its core, it's just like great musicians playing together. But that's the weird part about it. It's one person playing.

You know what's awesome about this discussion, though, Peter, is like, because we were talking about how they've made these tracks, you know, for these first four albums, you know, all in the same. It was just like a library of tracks. It's kind of one big album, isn't it? Yeah. I mean, this is like you, because you could hear. That's what I call it the classic period.

Not including your songs The Key of Life. But you are the Sunshine could easily be on the album. Yeah. It could easily fit into this. It's that kind of vibe. It's like it's not a ballad, but it's not, it's kind of a medium tempo, you know. Yeah. Okay.

Now we're going to move on track number four. Sweet little girl. Yeah. So end of side A and this. Well, I'm going to let you speak on it first. But just as a reminder, great start. Hey. That's the best part of this track.

A harmonica. Crush it. Oh, it's harmonic. That's kind of like his vocals. We don't, we take it for granted? We take it for granted. Yeah. Who else is?

Oh, my God. Maybe the greatest to have, like two steelments and speech. I mean, who else? You know. Sweet little bad. Oh. You know your baby love.

Love is driving me crazy, crazy, crazy great. Sweet little girl. This play is so good on this. I bet. But his road's play. is harmonica like this could be a novelty song if it weren't for all that that's incredible oh there you go i remember when i first heard it i was like is this a country song what the hell's got it i love when back of the throat stevie shows up yeah

steve's got ratings and then it's it's almost got like a how many times i've said that to have to record a couple this part's weird this part's awesome what you're talking about i love this character Gade a little nowhere One is sugar The character has like droop A droopy face

Right right Yeah No this is solely theatrical It's like it's like the highest And novelty song you're ever gonna hear But then it's just So

Man 99% of the population Singing the song Would be schlock Man The harmon I forgot I forgot him The homonautical

All right Is this the only piano on the album, like acoustic film? No, there's another one. I think on, I think on evil or keep on running. Oh, you're right, you're right, you're right. So, yeah, but what's your feeling overall on this?

I mean, this is like, this, if there's any song that if we were forced to say is a little bit, well, it's not out of place because Stevie's like singing the, I mean, like, it's so in there. Is it just the, it's just the character part that's the slow character part? Yeah, and even that, it's almost going into like rock a bit, rockabilly a little bit.

I mean, it's cool because it shows his range and stuff. It's just for me, this has always been the slightest bit of like a, whoa, the only place on this album. I don't know. I feel like, man, I hear it. It's kind of country. Like, I could see this on the Smoky and the Bandit soundtrack. You know what I mean? But then when he was doing that, remember when he did the Ray Charles tribute stuff when he was younger?

Yeah. This is kind of coming out of that too. And it's all great. It's all great. End of side A. Do we need to get some batteries, drink some water or anything? Can we charge ahead? Can we turn this record over?

Because we're about to hit another high point right here. RIP reface. Oh Clavenettes If you like your honers With an H at the beginning I think I'm

I'm happier than the morning Oh Start out with the two vocals Oh That's the way you said that it would be If I should ever bring I think this is the only track with no drums He's got that effect on his voice

That he's used on other songs in this run It's like a phaser or something. Not a phaser. It could be a chorus. It might be verbs. Like phased verb or something? Yeah, something. Four to one.

Sam, Charlie, you know what that is? His vocal quality? This is the most beatlesest influence that you hear, which Stevie was totally tuned in to the Beatles at this time. You talked about that one. That would have been awesome. collaboration. Yeah.

If the Beatles would have hung around for just a couple more years. I know. And then... I mean, they were so influential

on Steve on everybody. And Stevie always had his ear to the pop ground. But they have some similar sensibilities, especially arranging-wise and orchestration-wise. And actually,

it's interesting because this, Happier Than the Sun, first track on Side B, and Sweet Logo last on A, shows the biggest range for Stevie. I also love... Because this is not like soul R&B, Motown.

No, this is like a folk ballad almost. Yeah. But I love the folk balance he does where he's playing clavinet as the guitar. As a guitar. Exactly. Essentially playing the role as the acoustic guitar. And it's the drums too, because it does...

And then he's got the syncopations on the inner lines. Oh. Since the day you came inside of my life. I mean, it almost has like a... You're right, like a Beatles or like even like a Led Zeppelin going to California kind of thing. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's interesting.

And Stevie can take influences and like Yeah, there's like James Taylor in there Like no problem Like no shame in his game for doing that And personalize it in a great way Oh, what a move What a move

Yeah, this is just like expert Craftsmanship Songwriting, you know Yeah And it goes off for two and a half more minutes It reminds me of like that behind the scenes And We Are the World where he's like Showing Bob Dylan

How to sing like Bob Dylan It's like he can like I'm going to do a focus song, but it's going to be like the best folk song, like, acoustic guitar folk song. And they were like, Stevie, you don't have an acoustic guitar here. It's like, yeah, but I'll use my hone. I'll use my honer clathinet. We're going to make it work. I mean, it's unbelievable. Yeah. And it's, and it kind of is, it's almost disguised in a way, especially because, like, for me, I listened to this album. This was not like a rate. I mean, this was, I heard this obviously way after it, well, not way after it came out,

when I got, whenever I got to Stevie. But even like early 80s, there was a big, like, Stevie was really hitting big and he had like music aquarium and like the best of albums and stuff so a lot of these records kind of came back or were always there but the idea is like this he has a way of cloaking a folk song or like a rock or rockability or country or whatever in his sound in a way that is not like everybody's just like man he was he was making the best soul and arms like this is not an rmb record i don't think this is an rmb i don't think it's a soul record i mean that's or blues record it's a Stevie one, and I know that's like cliche to be like only, but those elements are

there. Bro, you know how I feel about it. There's a, every artist is its own genre in opinion. But I mean, but this no, well that's great. Okay, why do I keep paying that? Especially these great artists. Like this is a solo R&B. This is a Motown record.

And like Stevie sort of transcends it in a way. But like what he's doing from this on is like that's some genre defying. It's genre defying, but it's also inclusive. of so many genres. So it's like, it's a very,

it's a genius mix that he does. Like he, he takes an influence without giving a shit. He's just like, hell yeah. If I like it, I'm bringing it.

Hey, Peter, I got, let me ask you a question. Hey, Adam. Did you know, do you know that we do full performances of a track from one of these

albums on every episode? Man. At the end of the... Can we do it at the end of today? Yeah, let's do Superwoman. Not only if you come up with a cool arrangement. I'm going to try my best.

Okay. But did you all also know that it's not just at the end of the episodes, but we actually have our own YouTube channel just for the tracks. Many of them are from songs from you'll hear at episodes. It's open studio music,

just YouTube, open studio music. And you'll see all of these incredible tracks that our team has put together here that we played on. Caleb and Bob played on over the years from songs from off the wall, from thriller, from songs in the key of life,

from Asia, I don't know what I'm hitting the mic. Charlie Parker was strings. We just did Just Friends. Check out Open Studio Music on YouTube. There you go. Or Spotify, wherever you get your music. Okay.

Should we move on? One of my favorite songs. I mean, they're all my favorite in their own way. It's like, it's like nine children. It's like I had nine children and they're,

I mean, they're Stevie kids, but it's like I, I don't want to get too deep in this place. Turn on the reface. But this is this one's my favorite. Girl Blue.

Amazing. Yeah. Another great intro. Symbol abstractions. Hello morning. Good. Good morning and I love. Crystal Wingling, a mixture of the gold sunrise above.

And the sun comes out. Quick chorus. I love it. But what is going on with the drums? I don't. Like the way they're panned. Almost. And then like, he's obviously playing like three or four different percussion parts

It's thick. Timbales? Shifting graces. And this is the most unique effect on his vocal, I think, on this whole record. It's almost like the U and I verb on it. It's like... It's so atmospheric, man.

It is. It's like he's painting this thick painting. Man, so this whole album, Great bridge. I was going to say something. I'm going to wait. First course, first course, quick chorus. Harmonizer.

Oh yeah. Unbelievable. I don't know how we're going to do Apex Moment. This is like a mountain range. I know, this is a big song. This is kind of an epic song. It's amazing, man. Well, no, it's all amazing, but this is like...

I think the drums being so busy and stuff fits with the epicness of it, you know? of it, you know. It's got that little... All these little harmonica things he's doing. Yeah. Churps. Yeah. Stevie's ability.

Oh. He set that up. He set that up. So the greatest part about the song is the mix of minor and major. Yeah. These descending minor chords, B-flat minor, A-flat minor, G-flat-minor, and then this, like, F-7, this dominant. But then the lift-up.

goes to B-flat major. Right. That's the two-cord. And a B-flat major over D, and the four-cord, E-flat, just for our harmony nerds out there. It's so sophisticated. This whole album is actually a master class in what's called modal interchange.

Stevie is literally mixing on a lot of these songs, Superwoman, this song, Evil. There's this like mix of major and minor in all these chord progressions. That is a hallmark of his. Like, it is something that he is a master of, something that other artists, you know, Yeah, other artists like everybody from, you know, Marvin Gay to Michael Jackson to radio head to a bunch of artists, Holland Oates, use modal interchange.

It's a sophisticated harmonic device that is not just like three chords and the truth kind of thing. It is nothing wrong with three chords in the truth, by the way. But it is like a very high-level device that Steve is using musically. It feels almost cheap to talk about it because of how deep this album is just emotionally. This song in particular. That's the mechanism with which he hits the depth of emotion with it. I mean, is that mastery of these harmonic tools. Absolutely.

You know. It's like how mathematicians talk about mathematics is this beautiful art that is, like, to them, they see beauty. Like, if you're a harmony nerd and you're into the math of harmony, this is like some high-level shit, man. It is. It is. It is unbelievable to geek out on all this stuff. It's a great way you're putting it. And, I mean, it's like there's nothing wrong with a simple, you know,

a bottle of French wine that's like, you know, nothing complex or whatever, everyday wine. But there's also something nice with this complex Bordeaux that's got all these layers that if you're willing to like,

that's what this is. Yeah. From a harmonics and you don't have to know the names of the cores, but you can know major and minor and you start to hear like how are those because if you, I mean, and even rhythmically

with all this percussion and stuff, it's like this is definitely that don't try this at home. It's so dense. There's so much shit going on here. You better be Stevie Wonder and have that kind of vision and you better have these two

two guys plugging everything in and then mixing it like a real commitment because like this is a this this takes a lot to get this out this is not just oh stevie wonder is a genius he's in there doing this this is a lot they're working all night they're working 12 hours the thing with the harmonic stuff too four five years with the music theory stuff as we as we break it down you know um who knows how much stevie's thinking about all of this stuff like theoretically probably none at all because he's he's you know just coming pouring out of him right but um just like the synthesizer stuff how it doesn't seem, you know, antiseptic or,

or, like, too spacey, or it's like fake or robotic. He makes those synths sound organic and earthy and, like, a human voice. Same with the harmonic stuff. It doesn't seem so snooty, or it doesn't seem out of reach. Like, the way that he does it,

it could get very, very fussy. Yeah, it's like, you see it on paper, you're like, holy, wow. Yeah. It is not fussy. No. It feels so natural. He's so good.

And that actually is harder to, to do. For sure, for sure. To make the complex seem easy. It's beautiful. He's so good at it. I would say I do start to understand now why this, like, why this is a launch. Like, this is almost like a buffer record. Like, it was going to take the world, not that long. They had to catch up. The world had to catch up. But if you think about it was only a few months because talking book comes up. But I mean like this, don't you think talking book starting with you are the sunshine? That helps. Because he's like, come on everybody.

It is. We're going to get there. Yeah, maybe that was part of the thing as they're picking from the catalog. But I mean, I think after you've heard 14 hit, you know, records of Stevie Wonder, the Motown sign of what, like, this is jar. I mean, for us to look back and be like, yes, this is the beginning of the period and the harmony, this is great because of this. It makes sense. But in real time, and look, this is a beloved record. This is not like people didn't get it, but to take a little bit of time for people like, oh, that's where you're going. I mean, anything great.

You can't like, just change up your thing and expect everyone to be like, yeah, the masses. Yeah, that's right. Anything great and new is going to be a little jarring. at first. Yeah. For sure. It didn't take long, no. But now, I mean, we, like you said, like 2020 is... Yeah, hindsight. Hindsight. Hindsight is 2020, because we've been grown up with this.

By the way, you mentioned Hall and Oates just a little fun fact. You know what they call them in Germany? Hall-Oontz. And do you actually know that the name of the band is not Holland Oates, that it's just Daryl Hall and John Oates? Right. Always. Nice. I mean, no, I didn't know that. Okay.

Okay. Seems so long. Seems so long. By the way, there is no. No bad track on this album. It's just like nine bangers. Yeah. Man, he has so much of the crazy synthes of the beginning of tracks. He likes to set the mood. Yeah.

He's not scared. That's another thing. I'm sure people are like, what the hell's going on? Lady love and Lady Cat. The lady went away. Now we're in a classic hotel line. Like the park hide in Tokyo. Let me all along to suffer.

And I feel it's not fair for me to fall in love. Man, he loves the two-core, doesn't he? He does love the two-chords. The two-biter, major. It makes me question my whole harmonic perspective. I don't use two-cores nearly enough. Damn. He loves a two-five-one.

A backdoor, 251? Oh, you really love. I'm messing this up, Pete. I'm messing this up. Back door? But this is, you know what I'm saying? Like, this is like the jazz loungiest he gets. He doesn't on, there's someone talking, um, Intervision, there's another track that's kind of like,

been so long. And it's so like loose in a really appropriate way. It's not rebuttal, but it's like, I see it all for myself. You know, it's like the way really good musicians would be reading something for the first time, where they're like, yeah, I got it. Okay. Leave some space. Oh.

On jungle fever, he gets to some songs like this. Okay. We're making this a jazz standard. This should be a jazz standard. Come on. Isn't that good? Yeah. So good.

Yeah. Seems so long. But that's the jazziest thing. For sure. For sure. Great song. Great song. What do you do?

What are you doing? Oh, look, he's... I'm going for it. Because I can't wait for keep on running and evil. I mean, it ends. Man, this is such a bad. Again, a lot of crazy sin stuff at the beginning. any of the track.

And then we just go to church. Yeah. Yep. This is like the back and forth, right? But it's between a synthesizer and the deacon, you know? Klavenat there. What a vision to have to get those sounds like. You hear that too, the pan of it?

It's electronic, but it's not automation. It's like human and the machine. Humanizing the machine. All these Tonto album. are amazing head phone listeners too. Yeah.

Oh, of course. Yeah. So soulful. Ah. Chaffed. Yeah. Keep on running from my love.

The drums here. This feels like maybe one he had in the head for a while. Yeah. Like, you know, this feels like I could have gone on a Motown album. Yeah. You know. Hey.

And, man, he played that a little sloppy on piano because he wanted to for the vibe, you know, you can tell. Going down that blues scale. Bip-bib-bib of clavinet. Hey, man. How this can be so funky without guitar. Again, it's that clavinette? Piano clavinette. It's just piano clavinette.

Man, it's making me feel like I don't play enough clavinette. I'm messing up. Okay, we got to do something here. I got to, because now I'm thinking, there's no, I don't think there's roads on that, is there? Which is amazing, too. It's just piano and clavinet, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, I want to see if we can hear just the piano on here. Yeah. And then the clav. No, that's the bass. Oh, budd. The clab on the dominant seventh. It's panning to both sides. But that's the whole vibe, even without.

Well, the drums aren't even coming on. Ha! Whoa. Yeah, man. Woo. It's really the piano that even though it's sublimated in the overall mix, that's what's holding it down. It is holding it down. Clavenate.

That's what's giving it that funk, right? You like that? I don't like it. I mean, you know, I'm a high-range fan. Because it's... That piano, man. That was it. Amazing track, amazing track.

Ah, fun stuff. Thank you, Stevie. Amazing, man. Amazing. I love the piano sound on that. It's cool, too, that there's just two tracks where he's using piano. He uses it kind of in unexpected ways. Yeah, like, with this, you would think, like, for that kind of

It's almost, dare I say, pre-disco? Am I going on a limb on that? I was thinking about this, it feels a little, it does feel a little bit like more mid-late 70s and it does 72, but I could be... He's looking around the corner for the groove. But to have it piano bass instead of like, and

no guitar, but it's still so fun. I mean, can you imagine being a musician around this time and hearing this album being like, oh my God, what are we going to do, guys? I know. All right, last track, Peter, I want to listen to the whole thing. This, and we can get it, actually, let's get into Desert Island Tracks. We'll get in the categories. So if you're new to the show, we know we have a lot of new people here in the show

because we've had a couple of who are on a run, Peter, what a heater. I don't know if you knew that. Is this our classic period? This might be. It's all down from here, my friend. No, but if you're new to the show and... Where are you been? And you like it. Why not share it with a friend? Like right now, think of someone in your life who you think would get something out of this episode and send them a note, send him a text that Peter's actually going to do it. Peter, if your friends and family aren't listening to the show. Actually, that's true. All of my friends and family, they don't want to hear me talk anymore. I'm texting you. Oh, I don't need to.

I listen to the show. No, but share it with your friends. We really appreciate you listening. And, yeah, we're really excited about this season. So, okay, I want to listen to this to this whole track because... Oh, you were going to tell them about the categories. Oh, yeah, yeah. So we...

Yeah, for people that are new. We do, at the end of the show, we do eight categories, and we, you know, this is kind of a fun thing. They really matter, though. They really, really matter. And so our first category is desert island tracks, meaning if you were stranded on a desert island and you can only pick one track from this album,

what would you pick? I would pick this last song, Evil. Okay, so you want me to give minor? Should we listen to it? Let's listen to Evil and then you can give your songs. Big C chord. Why not? Google on the bass, of course.

Again, starting with those atmospheric synths. Yep, how many tracks do you do that? There's such a gravity. to this too. He loves to end his albums with these epic pedals, too. Have you noticed that? Right. Where there's just like this one low bass note that drones.

Think about how many albums from this period have a similar vibe. Like leave with some weight. Why have you engulfed so many? Please don't go. That's for Philly knows for his finale's last. Evil. Why have you destroyed so many miles? Leaving.

This is so hip. here. Secondary dominant to the sixth chord. The secondary downer to the four. Now the groove starts. We're not just on the four quick, Peter. We're a whole new key. Stevie's got you.

And he has so much space now at his rage started out there. Have you stolen so much love? Leave it again. Secondary now into the sixth. Again, these amazing musical devices. Uh-oh. Now we're somewhere new. We're somewhere new.

We like it. We like it. So we started and now where he's gone. That's a beggar. That's a great call. Damn, I might have to change. Isn't that amazing? I was just like, I mean, could you, but if you're on a desert island with that, every day would be...

I wake up to that, I go to bed to that. Oh my God, your day would be so epic. Oh, my God. Like, in between, like, how are you going to fill your time? You're just looking forward to hearing that again. It's so deep. This is the shortest track on the album. I know, it's only like three minutes or something.

Three and a half minutes. Yeah. No, not to, again, I feel like it does, like, it's almost vulgar to talk about the music theory behind this or the little nuts and bolts things happening. But again, if you're a math nerd about music, it's so sophisticated what's going on here. Like, he leads you, so it starts off and see. key of C, and he leads you down, a secondary dominant to the A minor, then a secondary dominant to the four chord, F major. So when you're at that four chord, it feels like, you know,

you could go back up to the key of C. Yeah. Or to five and then maybe back to the long. Right, you go F sharp diminished, then you see over G. Lesser hands, right? Yeah. But as soon as we're on that four chord, now we're starting the sequence all over again. That's a gutsy thing.

And he does it two more time. So he does the same thing. And that's a perfect fourth up, Peter. It's not like a lift of a half step or a lift of a whole step. It's a giant leap up, right? So he takes this huge leap up, and then he does it again to B-flat. And then he does it again to E-flat, and then he ends on this crazy big court at the end.

It's like, you know, Johnny Cash's version of Walk the Line where he modulates so that he can keep getting lower until eventually he's like, you know, a lot of mine. This is like the opposite of that, where Stevie keeps, like, modulating to lift us up. But he's like going so far in these modulation. It's insane.

And it's also really unexpected. Like, because he's modulating using this chord that is, it feels like it's in the key that you started in. And before you even, I mean, it's like three chords later, you're like, wait, are we, we're somewhere new. Right. Because it's somewhat related. It's far away physically, like the key.

The key. But it's related enough that it's hard to pull off. It's hard to pull off. Because it's like, wait, are we there or not? And I think it's like uses the melody, the time. And then his range, like he starts down in that low tenor. And the whole arrangement just keeps getting big. It's like he had a plan for the whole, obviously.

No, lesser hands, it could be kind of clunky, but in Stevie's masterful hands, it's... That's why you don't hear people singing this song. So, I mean, it's... It would be tough. What's your Desert Island track? Oh, yeah, way to go, buddy. Set me up with that.

What's your little trap? I mean, I got love having you around. I love the way this record starts just as a reminder. It's a great. Oh. You can start your day like that. It's a great start. So we got the beginning of the last.

Yeah, yeah. And, you know, Stevie famously is great at starting and ending his record. just like his songs and everything in between. But I mean, he knows about balance and architecture of albums. And so, I mean, that's a great thing. What you got is your apex moment. And just to let folks know, this is like a top moment.

I mean, in a record like this, it's silly to say. That's what I was saying. This is so hard. I mean, the apex moment has got to be the last chord of evil. That's kind of the genius of this album. It's all pointing toward the last chord of evil, which is this huge apex. It's the biggest moment on the album. Oh, is that is mine.

Okay, good. Well, that makes sense. We just heard that. So I've got Apex Moment. I love going for these slightly longer ones. The transition between Superwoman and where were you when I needed you, which is weird and wonderful. And just one of the most, I'm going to jump up to it.

Abrupt and soothing at the same time. And it's got... It's really good. And it's like clunky and human and bringing in the... I mean, there's some music nerd stuff. He leans a lot on the G sharp minor sound, which is the, it's a chord that's in both keys. Yeah, all right.

It's an E major, it's an F sharp major. I love the way he just like slides into this. You don't, like you said, you don't even know you're there. No. And then all of a sudden, when the melody comes in, you're like, holy shit. It's just like, like you're walking around a corner and then you're seeing a new part of the land you never see. And you're like, there's a valley below and you're like, let's do it. Amazing.

Amazing. When the summer came. And then, in my opinion, this, Where Were You and I Need You, Melody, the whole thing, including the bridge. It might be my favorite Stevie Wonder Melody ever. Better than you're the Sunshine of my life. I agree. That, where were you and I needed to. It's so well written and so beautiful. Yeah. Bespoke playlist.

So if you were to put this album in a playlist on Apple Music or Spotify with a bunch of other albums, what would you call that playlist? The actual classic run. Oh, so you would fill it with the four. albums from the classic run and call it the actual classic run and you would leave out songs in the key of life and guess it. And hotter than July and music aquarium and a bunch of great records. I mean, yeah, because they're not part of the classic run. We can't be friends anymore. What would you call it? Spiritual synth. Spiritual synth. Yeah. Thank you, chat, GPT. Oh, come on. Quibble bits. If there's anything

you could quibble bit. I mean, I kind of mentioned it before. It's not a huge, I mean, sweet little girl. It's not, to me, it's not a quibble bit, but I do find myself jumping past that sometimes. Yeah. But hearing it again, like sitting through the whole thing, it's like, there's so much cool stuff in there. It's a very, like, there's nothing sonically. And I, that's what I was trying to find.

I'm like, there's something going to be messed up in the mix or something weird. That's really cool, actually. Man, there's, yeah, even the stuff that I was always like, it's weird. It's like, oh, my God, that's the perfect place to have something weird in the mix. His vocals, he's flawless, harmonica playing. The drumming, I mean, I can't, I mean, some people would be the quibble like, oh, he played that Phil Sloppy. I'm like, he played perfect for what that was.

So I don't really have any. Assuming Stevie's perfect. What's your quibble bit? Well, when I tried to fill out the quibble bits category, I just wrote without even thinking about it. How dare you? Ooh. The quibble bits category for even assuming there would be a bit to quibble.

No, but there could be. I mean, yeah. I don't have, I actually can't think of anything that I don't love. So that's an interesting thing. Is this a perfect album then? Yeah. Are we going to add that as a category? It could be.

Is this a perfect now? I mean, this is, as far as, like, did he fulfill what he was going for? I think so. All right. Well, he didn't really do that until he got to fulfilling this his first finale. That's just because the title. Snobometer. So this is, you explain snobometer.

Unexplanable. I'm giving, okay, snobometer is one aunt Linda, your dear Aunt Linda would love this who has more. It's very accessible, accessible tastes. It's broad. Yeah. The Swifties would love it. Ten. Ten, Ethan, Ethan, Ethan, Ethan, and Alan Iverson.

It's got to be an Iverson that loves this record, a real connoisseur. Yeah. Stockhausen would like it Right, right. Christopher Stark, our friend I'd like it, right? It's a nabometer. So I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go unusual, I'm gonna drift off of my usual five and I'm gonna go up to eight and say that this is a little bit

snobby because, wait, is that what you got? No, just congratulations. Just for finally, what the hell, man? How many weeks were we five? This has been hard. No, but this, I'm weird because I'm like, I'm not, this is not like an insider,

everybody knows this is the beginning of the classic run. Yeah. Everyone knows this one. But I do think that to say, and I'm not going to say this, this is the best out of these four or five or six records. It's like one big album, isn't it? It's one big album,

but this is a damn strong start. And I think the fact that it didn't win any Grammys, didn't really have any big top 10. Didn't have any hits, yeah. You could say that it's the snobbiest of this. I mean, you know what? The snobiest of Stevie's Records is Secret Life of Plans. Which I would totally do on this show.

We should do that on the show. That's a snobby, as soon as you say, because you imagine being like, what do you like better from the classic run? Secret Lake of Plants. Snob. Snob. Snob, I usually said. Hipster.

But they wouldn't be wrong. I have a seven. I have kind of a high one too. For Stevie, I think that's pretty high. Yeah. It's not secret, like, I put Secret Life of Pants as nine or ten. Yeah, you could almost be like, how could any Stevie Wonder be above five on a certain level? Yeah.

But I do find myself, I would say that this is like, it wouldn't be the first thing I would show someone who I knew had very broad taste. Well, because in this day and age where everything is available at all times, like the genius and legendary status of Stevie Wonder is is well known, right? So somebody that's like, I love Stevie Wonder and I love the Beatles and I love, you know, Ludwig and found Beethoven. And so Stevie, of course, inner visions are talking about, like this one wouldn't necessarily come up, right? As one of the top one or two. By the way, just before we get to, is it better then? Can I just point out some other albums that came out in this year?

Yeah. So the Rolling Stones in 1970s released Exile on Main Street, which is one of their biggest albums. David Bowie released Ziggy Stardust. Steely Dan, Can't Buy a Thrill. Can't Buy a Thrill. Lou Reed Transformer, Neil Young Harvest. Al Green, I'm still in love with you. And then on like the jazz side of things,

you got Chick-Korea with Return to Forever. Damn, big-ass record. Weather Report, I sing the body electric. Charles Minkis let my children hear music. Miles Davis on the corner. That's a good record. John McLaughlin's Mahovishna. Oh, damn, that's a big record. It's a big record.

That was a big fusion year. But what a year, man. 72, one of the all-time great years. I think some Bobby Womack came out in this year, too. It was really good. Better than, is this album better than Intervisions? Okay. Do we have to do Intervisions?

You chose it. Well, I couldn't think of anything else. I mean, it ain't worse. I'll accept that as an answer. It ain't worse. I think it's equal. I think it's the same thing in a way. It's the same thing.

Now, if they're both sitting there, which one would I take? Either one. I mean, like, one day maybe they, like, I, I'm, the more,

this has been great for us to go through these albums because as much as I've listened to them over the years and as much as I love these four albums, the more I'm realizing now in researching, like, they're one and the same thing.

That's always how it's felt. Like, these are ones that you can like just mix and match, although they're so well crafted this albums, listen to this bad boy like I've been doing beginning to end on LP oh my god from beginning to end everything on it man in order in order accoutchamance like this is like the album cover the photo the art the inside art how the lyrics are presented especially on these LPs they're amazing man

this is 10 I agree this is a 10 and shout out Robert Marguliffe who and Ali was like the engineer and the one you know programming and helping and doing all this stuff one of the two associate producers he was the art director of this too. This was kind of a small production team considering like especially how talking book how big it was. Like they were in there picking the stuff. They didn't have like a bunch of entourage and stuff.

He did the art. Talking book, Robert took the picture of Stevie. He literally did the photograph. He's like after an online session we went up by the hot because they were in L.A. by the... Wait, do we have a bigger team that makes this podcast that makes this podcast and made interventions? Oh, that's sad.

They were in there for five years. Okay, that's true. Okay, up next. Like if this were, if there were an auto play after this album. Wait, what did you have for accoutrements? Oh, I had 10 as well. Okay. Up next, what would be the next thing you would play?

I mean, talking book? It's the next, you know, of the classic four. It makes sense. I actually, I put off the wall... Four being in the classic, it makes sense. Thank you. I put Michael Jackson's off the wall because I feel like it's a cousin of this album

in the sense that Michael Jackson had already made a bunch of music before he made off the wall. He was coming out of the Jackson 5, Motown artist. And then he makes off the wall as his own, like, declaration of independence of as an artist, just like this is, and it's amazing. It's amazing.

And those are cool kind of bookends of the 70s, too, a little bit. For sure. Great. Oh, check into our, man, I haven't been doing this recently because I'm overwhelmed with newsletters, but if you're looking for a new newsletter, we have a good one. We have a great one.

That's what people are saying. They love it, yeah. It's called You'll Read It, and it's available if you go to you'll hear.com, you can sign it. It's totally free. Well, it's free 99. You sign up and you get some behind the scenes stuff

and some stories about these albums that weren't included in the show our incredible producer Liz produces this newsletter to shout out Liz, shout out Caleb, shout out Ian, shout out the whole open studio and you'll hear it. Sam Mall. Sam Mall.

Andy Stevens. Charlie. Intern Charlie. Yeah. I think we nailed it. I think we did. Should we start over or just move on to next week? Let's do another version. Until next time. We'll hear it.