You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - One Of The Most Revolutionary Trios Of Our Time

Episode Date: November 30, 2023

Here on YHI we're always checking out the music of past generations... but what about the music of our current time? In this episode, we'll dive deep into the world of modern trios and what makes them so great.↓ Links from the pod ↓Check out the Bill Charlap Trio for yourself. Have a question for us? Leave us a SpeakPipeCheckout courses from Adam, Peter and more at Open Studio🎹 Head over to our YouTube channel for a better look 👀.Follow us on Instagram

Hey, Peter. Hey. What is the most revolutionary trio say the last 25 years? Jazz Piano Trio. Jazz Piano Trio. Very specific. Well, to me, sue me,

but I love the Thelonius Monk Trio. I thought it was a great trio. My math is a little off. Yeah, did you fail out of math or something? Well, no, pin me down to it. It's more recent than that.

But revolutionary? It's probably a little controversial. Controversial. So the Paul Revere Trio, I heard. I never heard them live. But they were very involved with the Revolutionary War. An interesting answer. Try again, bud. Revolution.

Prince played in a trio format. Say what you see. Prince and the Revolution. Yep, Prince and the Revolution. Great band. 1999. Yeah, that's within 25 years. Not what we're talking about here.

That's not how that works either. Brad Melow trio. What about them? I just heard them. Great trio, but we're thinking of something a little bit more out of nowhere. What? I'm Adam Manus. And I'm Peter Martin.

And you're listening to the You'll Hear a podcast. Music advice coming at you. Coming at you today, sponsored by OpenStudio. Go to OpenSudiojazz.com for all your jazz lesson needs. That's weird. That is a little weird. Oh, Peter. Those of you out there just listening or just watching, you might be like, wow, that's weird.

I can only tell you that in the studio here, it's even weirder. You know what? I got to warm up the old pipes. That's right. You know what I mean? We're about to podcast here all day long. So I need to get my siblings going. I need to get my residence happening.

And in between, we take a break. Engage my core. Can you help me with my tax return, sir? Do I look. Yeah, I do look like your account a little bit, a little bit. I look like your shady client. It's true. It's like we met in the pod suite just to do your taxes.

I would be so terrible at doing your taxes, by the way. You have the look, but not the skills. I do not have the skills. You're going to be back here. man, this is fun. We got some cool stuff that we're laughing to. I'm excited. We both heard some good, we do a quick recap of the music or are we doing that on another episode that we heard last week. Yeah, we heard some good music. Because speaking of trios,

yeah. Well, this might be a little bit topical to what we're actually covering today, I believe. First of all, there's something different. We're not even going to talk about it. I want to see some OG viewers on, if you're not on YouTube, this would be a good time to jump over there. Spot the difference. Can you spot the difference of things that have been happening that are different from our set? In the main picture. Not in that picture. The main shot here, Caleb.

Like the, yeah. Yes. Don't give him too much. Don't give them too much. No, there's something different. Can you see what it is? Don't confuse them, though. Anyway, leave in the comments if you see something different.

So we both got a chance to hear separately. Some very high-level piano trio. What is it? Last week, right? Live and in person. That's right. So I'll start it out by saying, I heard the Brad Meldow trio. Ever heard of him?

Yeah. Jeff Ballard on drums. Larry Grenadier, or as he sometimes is referred, Larry Grenadier. Friend of the show, Brad Meldell. Brad Meldow, a friend of the show is known for leaving the longest comment in word count ever on the you'll hear it. I love it so much, man. It's like 16-year-old Adam.

Do you read it every morning? His fantasy came true. Brad Meldow posted a comment, a long comment. It was great. And I was able to confirm with him after the show when we had a brief chat and hang. Yeah. Delightful. That that was, in fact, his comment.

because I was like, yo, Brad, are you, we were little... Like Brad Meldon 1,5, 3, 7 or something? You know, your username is super sketchy looking and he was like,

looking at me funny. Like, what do you mean? It said Brad Mellon. I was like, yeah. And then like seven numbers after it. Yeah. But yes,

he said he, in fact, did. He said he enjoyed the... He sent his regards. And to you and to all the listeners and said he's a fan of the pod, enjoyed the episode. That's always,

like my worst fear is when we're talking about an artist that's, that's obviously alive and might be... I'm almost wish they wouldn't be listening or watching. Because I want to be free with what I'm saying. Not that I'm going to be complimentary or derogatory or whatever. I know I'm going to screw something up.

If you know Brad's watching, you're not going to like either go in too hard or go too light. Yeah. I mean, I think we're pretty free and off the cuff, but we're not always 100% accurate. This is not the New York Times reporting on current advance. You know, this is a couple guys talk. Just like our name used to say. Just a couple of guys.

Just a couple of dudes talking music. Just sort of hanging out talking music. But anyway, no, it was cool. But anyway, hearing them. At the beautiful Sheldon Concert Hall. Beautiful Steinway. The trio, they were just firing on all cylinders. It was a really fun, intimate, swinging, pensive, big, like dynamic range, emotional range, musical range.

Really was a fun evening. It was super obliping. I'm so bummed. And he played for like 75, 80 minutes straight, no intermation. I love that. It's just great trajectory, great set list. Yeah, yeah. Beautiful intros, just really clean endings, some great standards.

And yeah, it was fun. Larry Grenadie, I mean, everybody sounded great. Larry played some fantastic solos and Jorge. I'm not Horhe. Jorge was good, too, though, but this was Jeff Ballard. Yeah. Yeah. Well, at the same time that that concert was happening, just across the street, actually, at Jazz St.

Louis, another great jazz piano trio. The Bill Charlotte trio was playing at Jazz St. Louis all week, Wednesday through Sunday. Yes. And from what I could see from photos, it looked like it was pretty packed in there every single set that they were. Folks like him here in St. Louis and was very well attended. I can attest it. Well, and I got to see him on Thursday night, that Thursday evening. And I can say that, first of all, there were more, I've never seen that many pianists in one room. Of course. In a while, all the piano nerds were out to see Bill Charlotte. And a lot of drum nerds, by the way, to see Kenny Washington. And, man, I got to say, it's the impotistic.

for this episode today, and this might be controversial, but listening to Bill Charlop and seeing him live and hearing that trio, you know, I realize that the older I get, the more experienced I get with listening, the more I appreciate players like Bill Charlotte and what he's able to do within the framework that he and this trio have set up, it really is something very, very special, and he's a very special player. And, I mean, I was blown away by the entire approach. His touch is. world-class, like A number one world-class touch on the piano. Yeah. His language is amazing.

He's like an encyclopedia for these tunes, for the stories behind them, for the composers. And then there's the rhythm section of Peter Washington on bass and Kenny Washington on drums. They are doing things that I think to maybe your average listener are like, oh, that sounds nice. And that looks like very simple things to do. And they are, as we know, very much not. Like, if you watch Kenny Washington play drums and play brushes.

right? It looks so effortless and easy. Yeah. And sounds so simple. But we all know that to sound simple and good is a monumental feat. It's actually one of the hardest things to do. And, you know, I know we've had Gregory Hutchinson on the show before and he talks about Kenny Washington all the time. Yeah. And it was a huge influence on Hutch and several other drummers. Well, let me just add in. I remember, you know, Hutch has a thing where like he almost, I mean, Hutch is a master of the brushes. Everybody knows that. and beyond. But especially with brushes, I've noticed, whenever he teaches something or explains something in his courses, he always mentions Kenny Washington. Like, to the point, I'm like, dude, you don't have to get. He's just like, no, I got this from him. We all got this.

Yeah. And I'm like, yeah, but Kenny got it from. He's like, yeah, but he was the connector. He was the one. And I mean, of course, Greg studied with him and, you know, was very close with him coming up in New York and stuff. But yeah, he's a master of it. What I realized seeing them live, and I've seen them live several times over the years, but I was just reminded that this framework that they've built with these jazz standards, they played some Duke Ellington and Billy Strayhorn, and they played some other jazz standards,

and they played some great American songbook standards. Yeah. And the framework that they've built their career, 26 years together now as a trio since they're first recording 12 trio records that I could count, at least 12. Yeah. And they're doing it all in this framework. It's all very swinging.

And seemingly, at first glance or first listen, it's all very straight down the middle. you know and you think oh okay this is just like straight ahead and then i was i was listening last week i was realizing that it's not so straightforward as it as you might think like they are creating some very i think very fresh sounds within this framework and i was lit up after this concert because it's i think it's easy to feel like there's something is revolutionary or new yeah yeah buddy yeah no to feel like when something is the aesthetic is completely, you know, trying for something weird or outside of the norm, it's easy to be like, oh, well, that's new and different.

But when something is using the framework of a structure that is known, it's easier to overlook it as fresh and new. And this felt like fresh and new music from this incredible trio of masters. Well, it's kind of like, are they able, is the framework really about them being non-controversial in terms of their approach as a trio? That be, when you are able to do that at such a high level, that becomes its own revolution. Yeah. Right.

The devotion to the framework that they've set up. Right. When you say, we're going to do this and we're not going to, we're seemingly not going to be doing anything. There's no winking. There's no winking. Anybody else hasn't thought of. Yeah.

You know, we're not going to be putting everything into seven or 11 or, or, playing it backwards or... But at this point, is that so revolutionary? Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Like, they've been around and they are the ones who haven't changed. So all the other stuff has maybe changed. Obviously, one could say they've gotten better over those 26 years. They weren't bad at the beginning. But this is also just not your average piano trio just playing standards either. This is, this is, these are artists playing simple things that have, not even that simple all the time. Yeah. But very foundational. Making really hard things that are sound simple. It reminds me of watching Chick-Corea.

play, right? Where you're like, okay, this seems like I could just walk up there and do that, but I know that that's not the case. Right. You know, but he makes it seem effortless. Bill Charlap makes this seem effortless. And I think experienced piano players, when you listen and hear what he does and then see how he's doing it, you're like, what's going on? Like, how is this possible? Yeah. We're going to listen to a little bit and watch a little bit of this video from Bluneit Records. I mean, a relentless devotion to excellence is, is revolutionary. Like, we think it's not it's like, oh, that's easy. Or maybe not easy, but it's like, a lot of good people can do. No, no, no. It takes, like I said, it takes devotion. This is a devotional practice they've made to their

music and it pays off. So this is from their latest record and this is on a blue note YouTube channel. This is out of nowhere. And I think this is in the Steinway Gallery in New York. All those little things. All those, did you hear that? Huh. Everything that's happening here. Notice the volume way down low. Those lines, there's little accents that are coming through. They mean so much more. It's like a Rolls-Royce.

Yeah. It's like the details are so exquisite and right. You know, everything is of the highest quality. There's so much. There's so much amazing. All those details. No crazy, fancy arrangement, but just the right pieces. No, you know what?

It's not like... If you've got it, you don't have to flaunt it. It's not trying to be super cool. It's not trying to be too hip. Wait, if you're super cool, boy. Super cool. Hey, man. super cool. Hey man. I'm prison.

Look at me. Everything is in seven. No, I'm just kidding. I've been up in the, in the, in the, in the big house. Peter, you know, I'm no traditionalist by any stretch of the imagination. Like I, my, one of my favorite musicians. From your attire, you're very traditional. He can't help, but he can't lay off the cardigan. He just can't

lay off the cardigan. Suey, I love cardigans. No, I'm, I'm no traditionalist by any stretch of the imagination. Right. I love Eric Dolfi. Sumi. I love Ornette Coleman. Sue me. I love all of that. Yeah, yeah. You know, I'm on guard. music. And yet I find that for some reason, this trio has this juice inside of this traditional

structure that I just can't get enough of. But it's the authenticity with which they approach it, which with their skills are so well suited, with which they're willing to kind of submit to the music and to the trio format, all three of them that makes it work. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? It's like that. And I think that's why our, you know, thesis of this being revolutionary, actually, it's almost like the anti-revolutionary. It is the anti-revolutionary. It comes, you know, but it's true. It's like the Eric Dolphy you're talking about. But actually, you'd be a good example because you've had some great trios that have gone in different directions, not necessarily this direction, that are also very authentic.

Like, there's that authentic approach to how you're going to play a tune like this, which can go in, like, we're not saying there's anything wrong with putting this in seven or or reharmonizing it. But it's for the personnel, the situation. Like we talk about even how they're all dressed. Some groups that would be dressed in fine Italian suits like they are, it wouldn't match the music. As you said, they're like a Rolls Royce. So, like, they got the clothes. They got the signway. They got the, I mean, the look, the sign.

It's all authentic. You know what I mean? It all fits together. It's a great thing. Do you want to listen to this all the time? Yes, actually, I probably would. I mean, it is like. I mean, would you want to go off road with the Rolls Royce?

Probably not, but it still be kind of nice. No, no, no. There's, you know, there's nothing like punk rock about it or subversive about. it, but there is a lot of freedom in this devotion to the forum. And I think, you know, the deeper I get into music and understanding what goes on to be able to do that, the more you realize, like, that is decades of very devoted hard work that all three of them have put into this. And that doesn't happen just by like, let's go play some standards and wear suits and try to put this on as a mask, right? No, but I do think that that kind of authenticity,

although it might get lost on the general public as it should. Like if somebody came in there to hear them as you did at the Jazz DeBistro Club, it's just a listen. Like, I want to go to a jazz club. Like, they're going to be like, wow, this was amazing. They're not going to understand all the reasons why what we're talking about, but it's just as an authentic experience. They're listening, right?

You've never seen like 250 people love straight ahead jazz trio as much as I did that Thursday evening. And there's the different levels. Like, so if you're a pianist and you're, you understand what we do and what probably most of our listeners do, we usually not appear. If you're just a musician and you're paying attention to the details, like it really can go next level.

I mean, it's like looking at this great pitcher, major league pitcher. It's like if you understand the intricacies of everything they're doing, even if you don't understand that you just see them striking everybody out, it's thrilling, right? But then the deeper levels you go, it doesn't become more mundane. It's quite the opposite. It becomes even more revolutionary, more sophisticated. Your average listener wouldn't think it's revolutionary. And in fact, if they're lucky enough to hear something on this level, like maybe in New York, there was a time, I don't even think even now, there's a time where you can hear something on this unless you're hearing them.

I mean, there's all the good trials. But I mean, like, if you're hearing something at this level all the time, it's kind of like if you live in Vienna. It feels like a throwback to like 80s New York or something. Right, right. Like the village gay word would be like, you know, Mulgrew Miller, you know, Charlotte, that's before Charlotte. You know, just great trio. Kenny Barron, Kenny Barron, Donald Brown. You know.

But I mean, I think that it's like, if you. You lived in Vienna and you love classical music. Donald Brown, that's someone we should talk about. Absolutely, absolutely. Silk. But I mean, it's like you live in Vienna. You only go to the music vine, music vine, and hear the Vienna film harmonic every week. But they're playing different music, different repertoire, maybe different conductors.

But like, like the level of playing and sophistication and like what they're wearing, what you're seeing, what the audience, like the sound, is it's like, that's the bar then. Yeah. You know, it's kind of like this. If you're hearing this trio play on those instruments at Steinway Hall or at a great club with a great piano and great, you know, Kenny Washington, Peter Washington, Bill Charlap, like, yeah, you can hear them anywhere. But I'm talking about like you're hearing them. They're like, it's like, you know, like everything's coming together.

Like that becomes normalized in the best possible way. You know, it's like a kid that grows up in a happy family that's being supported or whatever. That's all that they know. It's a shock to your system. It becomes anti-revolutionary when you go out. here somebody trying to fake it or like i'm gonna wear a suit and try to be cool and do this and play some standards and you're like wait they're not doing anything that different than that but it sounds like 80% worse for some reason yeah yeah that's the exciting thing to me about this man

one one great moment from this uh the concert that i saw just last week live here with the bill charlotte trio i was sitting next to actually i was sitting on either side of me were two pianists rocky mantia on one side st louis keys player and then on the other side of the bill's charlouille's keyes player and then on the other side was young Daniel Herrera, who is a young jazz pianist, plays with the Kendrick Smith group here in St. Louis. And then Daniel was with a drummer. I believe his first name was Tony,

but he's 15 years old. And I don't think I got his last name. Anyway, after the show, Sean and I are just, our friend of the show, Sean Ryan. You're calling everybody out. What if somebody was like, oh, I'm going to be at home on Thursday night? They just got blasted. They got put on blast.

No, I invited everybody to the show. Okay. No, Sean and I are hanging out after the show because I wanted to talk to Mr. Charlap and I want to invite him down to open studio. He's here all week. Like, I never got to because. Security. Bill was at a table with like a bunch of people and was sitting with them and they were

laughing and talking and it seemed like a social thing and I didn't want to be like, hey, I didn't want to have to give him the whole spiel, right? So anyway, were you familiar with the number one jazz podcast? Yeah, I didn't want to go. I didn't want to do that. You ever heard of Kiefer because we just, no.

So we were just hanging out waiting for him to kind of be done. We never actually talked to him because he was there for like, you know, 45 minutes. But 45 minutes later and the whole time that we were sitting there waiting for them, that young 15-year-old drummer Tony was sitting at a table with Kenny Washington. And you could tell Kenny was saying, encouraging things, giving advice, talking drums, talking about what he should do. And I remember talking to Gregory Hutchinson about that part of Kenny Washington, and sort of that that passing down, right,

that the music and what it means to be a musician and to see it so genuinely happen in front of our eyes there to a kid who is, you know, Kenny doesn't have to, he's Kenny Washington, he doesn't have to do that. No, but Kenny will do that. 45 minutes talking to this. Yeah, and look, this is another thing for all the kids out there, kids from all ages, you know.

Like, when you get an opportunity like that, sit down. First of all, Kenny Washington will, so I've seen him do that many times. And probably at this point because younger musicians are shy in a way than, I mean, not that we weren't shy in our own way, but if we wanted to learn to ask a question, that was the only place to do it.

You couldn't DM someone. I'll just go Google it later. And just like Kiefer said in his great interview with us last week, you know, what did he say? A YouTube video can't talk back to you. That's right. Can't say something back. You know, so yes, you can watch Kenny Washington these wonderful examples.

You can even see him talking about, you know, explaining things. but there's nothing like sitting there with a legend. Yeah. You know, I mean, that'll change a young drummer's life. I looked like Tony was getting a lot out of it too. Actually, I haven't heard him play. I just met him, but you know, you ever meet someone and be like, you're going to be a good musician.

I could just kind of get the vibe that you're serious about this. He's a suit on, right? No, he did not, but he had the vibe of someone who was like, you know, there's something in the ice. Right. And so that was just really cool to see. So shout out to that trio. And, yeah, I realize that.

I agree. It's the most revolutionary trio. Because you know what it is? It's like the, like no tattoos is the new tattoo. Listen, no, of course there are trios who are doing things on the cutting edge of form, right? And he better than this. Name them. No, no, no, but I'm just saying it's nice to appreciate the freedom in form. And a trio that's devoted to a form so much that it starts to become something new. And I think that this trio is at as about a high level as you can get.

Absolutely. And I love even, you talk about, forget about the style or whatever of the trio. they set the bar in terms of musicianship. It's not to say that there aren't other drummers and pianists and bass players as good maybe, but I mean as a trio, the way that they play trio, like it doesn't get any better than that. Like that, I will put a mark. So in other words,

that sets the level for all of us in a really inspiring way. And it's like a constant reminder. You know, it's like you come into the gym and you're like, there's somebody there that's already warming up first. Yeah. They might not always win or whatever, but like they're in there,

not only putting in the work, but showing how it's done. And what's so inspiring is you don't have to do what they're doing to do it the way they're doing it. Absolutely. That's what the, like this is a, I keep saying the word devotion because it's a devotional practice to the music that they're, that they're on the path trying to learn, right? And so, I mean, it's almost a spiritual endeavor at this point where it's like you're committing yourself to this music for your life.

And you can do it in your own way with the music that reaches you. It doesn't have to be out of nowhere and standards and things like that. But to do it in that way where you're like, I'm going to be. take this seriously and I'm going to learn about this and really go deep on this and commit to this is very inspiring. Absolutely. This is great, man. Thanks for bringing this in. And the stories and everything till next time. You'll hear it.