You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - Our 7 Favorite Unsung Heros of Jazz - #163

Episode Date: July 24, 2018

Today, Peter and Adam discuss several unsung heroes of the music. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

I'm Adam Maness. And I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to the You'll Hear a podcast. Daily Jazz Advice coming at you. That's right, man. I'm liking how this episode is shaping up. I like this title. It's our seven favorite unsung heroes of jazz.

So these are non-singers. I don't think there's a singer in the bunch, actually. Because they're unsung. They're unsung. No, I think the idea with this is people that maybe aren't household names even in the jazz community, but have contributed hugely to jazz and pushing it forward, both musically and in business and just getting it out there to the wired world. Yeah, I love it.

And I think we're about half and half, something like that, musicians, non-musicians, which is great because this music, I mean, of course the musicians are so important, but there are these other great characters that have been involved that have done wonderful things, promoting the music and bringing it along. And I'm already thinking of a bunch that we're apologizing. We should apologize in advance for leaving off a bunch of great, unsung, important people, especially non-musicians that I'm thinking of that. Yeah, we can actually do a whole non-musician list.

We could actually do like a whole record executive list. We could do a whole club owner list. I mean, there's a ton of people that have really given. If we only, we had an outlet in a channel to do all these things on. Like a daily podcast. Daily podcast or something. I don't know. Maybe, maybe someday in the future.

Sorry, my chair is still squeaking. I actually switched it out from yesterday's. I think it's a different. Is it me? It's the way you're sitting. Is it? You're sitting loudly. I'm, because I'm moving.

I mean, it's a bro. Okay, my bad. I think my chair has a sweet too, but you never hear it. No, you're totally stationary. Totally bland and stationary. You just stay put. Okay. And I'm going to start with number one, which is Kenny Clark.

Great drummer. I think unsung hero, because he invented the ride symbol pattern that we all know and love today, the Spangeling. And we talked about that yesterday, how important that is for the jazz sound, right? It's an incredibly important sound. I feel like now I'm going to challenge you a little bit. I hate to challenge you on number one, but is he really unsung? Well, maybe beyond, definitely not among jazz drummers. He sung among jazz drummers.

I wonder, though, I mean, I don't hear a lot of chatter about him outside of jazz drummers. Interesting. I mean, he's one of my favorite drummers of all time. I think he swings. He's got that straight kind of swing, which is crazy because he invented that sort of pattern on the ridesville, but it's different than anybody else's. I always hear that direct lineage from him to Max Roach with the rides a little. Yeah, totally. Yeah.

But I think could get more accolades than he gets personally. Right. Right. Okay. Number two, I'm going to just mentioned and kind of memorialize a little bit, Lorraine Gore. who was the long-time proprietor. We actually just lost her a few couple of months ago, less than two months ago. Lorraine was incredible.

Of course, her husband, Max Gordon, founded the Village Fangard in, I want to say the 30s or 40s. I mean, like a long time ago. But Lorraine was there. I think Max was older than her. I mean, Max probably died in like the 80s or something. But Lorraine continued. It was always very integral to running the club. Village Vanguard and of course in West Village in New York City.

And Lorraine ran it all the way until a couple of months ago. I mean, it was just an incredible character. Knew all the musicians. She was crazy, but everybody loved her. And, you know, there's some classic things. I mean, we could do a whole week's worth of episodes of stories of just for my limited time in the Vanguard, things that I saw like discussions and arguments between her and Stanley Crouch down there, Betty Carter, Cecil Taylor, getting us.

Awesome. But I mean, the last time I was there in last December, I saw getting into a very colorful conversation with Kevin, not Kevin Spacey. Who's the guy who's on the blacklist, the actor? Oh, James Spader. James Spader. Yeah. James Spader was there. So James Spader's been coming there apparently since he was like a teenager because he grew up in that neighborhood.

And so he's no Lorraine since he was like a kid, you know, and she's always like, what are you doing back in here? You know, this is great stuff between them. But, I mean, Lorraine just had a love for the music and an understanding of the institution that the Village Vanguard became long ago. And, you know, a lot of people thought that she kept things maybe too limited in terms of who played there. But, I mean, I think history really proved it out how important she was, what a hero she was to the music to keep this place going, to keep it original. And, I mean, she did stuff like would trade out the piano when it needed to be. And a lot of people thought, oh, she just kind of left it the same. But the club looked the same and sounded the same, which was great.

because that's the jewel that it was. But, I mean, she was always about quality there. She would trade out the piano at great expense when it needed to be done. Great staff, everything first class there. Truly an unsung hero. I mean, that's one of the most important places in the history of jazz. There's no doubt. Yeah, and it would not have survived without her.

I mean, just there's no doubt. That's awesome. Yep. So for number three, we're going to go with Rudy Van Gelder. This is a titan in the world of not just jazz, but of audio engineering. Pioneer, too. A pioneer. Englewood Cliffs is...

What's up, Jersey? You'll see, yeah, New Jersey. You'll see on the back of dozens of, if not hundreds of jazz albums. Yeah. And he had, this is a engineer that develops his own sound that was not intrusive on the music, but really propelled the music forward in a way that, especially at that time that it needed to be propelled forward and gave a vibe to the music that was important for its growth and for its artistry.

So, I mean, we're talking about, you know, Coltrane, Miles, Monk, Sonny Rollins, Art Blake, E, Joe Henderson, Freddie Hubbard, Wayne, Shorter, Horace, Silver, many, many more. Oh, yeah. Just an incredible person who helped this music literally sound better. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I mean, you know, apparently he ran sessions to, or even if he wasn't running them in terms of producing it, but always the audio engineer, especially because it was his own studio, So is running it up to a certain degree,

but in a way with a kind of space and freedom that allowed some of the most classic sessions ever to go down. So it's always the sound, but it's beyond that, it's the vibe of the place that, you know, giving the right vibe to the musicians to be able to really create something. He did a number of, like, one-day sessions where entire classic records were made.

And then, you know, he worked with a bunch of, I mean, it was like Impulse, Blune. I mean, he did a bunch of different prestige, a bunch of different labels and stuff. So, you know, he really typified the sound of jazz for a generation. Think how important the vibe of the studio is to your recording. It's like, we don't talk about it enough, but like it can make or break a session.

I mean, you like to think that it's all in your head and you can, you know, you just power through whatever. But when you're comfortable and you feel that freedom and everything looks and feels right for you, it can make a big difference. Yeah. Still in Jersey, but other than that. What are you going to do? All right, who you got it?

Love you Jersey. I'm just kidding. Number four. Okay, number four. So this is a, this gentleman was not. was definitely known, but I would certainly say it was unsung hero. Thomas Stousen, an Austrian guy that I met when I was like 20 years old playing with Betty Carter. And I was, it was kind of a shameful thing.

I didn't know who he was. He was actually one of the founders of ECM records. But he was also a very important agent, like in the 70s and 80s up until the 90s and created a great agency. Sao de days and like brought a bunch of like the top Brazilian. you musicians for the first time to Europe and did all these amazing things. And I did a tour when I was 20 with Betty Carter and he was the agent, the booking agent on it and came out on some of the gigs and was like really kind to me and like told me stories and stuff about the musicians.

And the more he would talk about people he'd work with, I was like, man, this guy seems like he's so important. Why is he talking to me about all this? And then I kind of looked him up later. This is pre-internet though. So I had a little bit of, you know, I had to go to the library to look him up. You know what I'm saying? I just kind of asked around. But it was fun. over the years getting to know him a little bit. I never knew him well, but realizing how much he did for the European jazz scene for American musicians, for European musicians, for the sound with the ECM thing, of course, which he was not as involved with as it went along, but for just promoting great, oh, man, we did great gigs.

You know, he'd have these little town square gigs in Italy, and he knew everybody and spoke like every European language and loved the music. Wow, that's awesome. So number five, we're going to go back to the musicians here, and this is guitarist Freddie Green. Now he kind of is famous for being like a workhorse of a musician, but famously he didn't really solo that much at all. I mean, but was famous for his four on the four swing. Like the original rhythm guitar. I mean, really just chunking. I mean, there are whole schools on Freddie Green and how he did his thing, but definitely an unsung hero in that band. And I think

in the music in general, for sure. Swing and swinging player. Great one. Okay, number six, I'm going to go with someone that many are not going to know, but the few that do I think will be, will definitely bring a smile to their face. And that's George Brumat, the great George Brumet, who was the founder and longtime proprietor and owner of Snug Harbor Jazz Club in New Orleans. One of my favorite clubs is still going strong.

George, we lost George about 11, 12 years ago. But he was just a great, he actually was born in Italy. And as a young child emigrated to the, United States, but he's not Italian. He's got like a whole story that was always a little bit foggy, but he would spend a lot of time. Always very New Orleans-y. It was very New Orleans. I mean, this dude lived in the French Quarter, and the club was in the Marini, which is like the next neighborhood. He's like, yeah, I'd commute every day by walking three minutes from one neighbor. I mean, it was like he was still in a little town in Italy or something. Didn't drive and

was just down there. And then during Hurricane Katrina, he actually stayed in the club because they had this, it didn't flood in that neighborhood. And there was no power down there for a number of weeks, maybe even a month or so. But he had this, you know, like food locker, whatever. You know, one of those, like, walking areas where you keep this stuff. And he was really careful about closing the door. So it was so hot and everything, but he could always go in there. And for, like, weeks, and he still had food and different things.

And he invited a bunch of people from the neighborhood to come by and really helped a lot of people out after Hurricane Katrina. But he built up this great jazz club, so many great musicians. was a big champion of Ellis Marcellus, who still plays. I just had a friend that was there last Saturday night. He was still playing Snug Harbor on Saturday nights. Awesome. And that was George was really the pioneer of modern jazz for a whole general.

I mean, you're talking about Steve Azikowski, Tony DiGroati, David Torkanowski, Hurley Riley, all the great modern players, Victor Goan's, you know, came through snug and had much love for George. That's so great, man. That's so great. All right, we're on to number seven. Number seven is Todd Barkin. You want to get Todd Barkin?

Yeah, Todd, so I just saw Todd at the N.E. He just received an NIA Jazz Master Awards. Is that good? That's good. I'm just thinking, why do we put him on the unsung? Now he's sung. He's super sung. He's super sung.

No, but I think he's still, because, you know, he's not a musician. He was a musician, I found out, during the N.E.A. Award ceremony, he talked about being a musician and stuff. I can't remember what he played now. I'm sorry, Todd. Big shout out to Todd. Love you, brother. What was he?

I mean, you know, he's the kind of guy that they used to call, like, a jazz impresario. Which, when I was a kid. up until a week ago because I didn't know what the word meant and I finally looked it up. I was like, wow, that's cool. But he was just like, I was thinking about, I think the first time I saw his name was on a record when I was in high school, an Art Blakey record, like live at the Keystone Corner.

And it said something about like produced or whatever. And I was like, oh, Todd, you know, when you used to study albums. Yeah, absolutely. So I always sort of knew his name. When I met him, went up to New York. Actually, when I first went to the West Coast, I think was when I first met him when he was,

there was another club, Kimbles that I think he was involved with. But he was big on the San Francisco jazz scene for years. Cool. And, like, big, I think he's from Ohio, actually, and went to Oberlin. But, I mean, just a great guy. And then he was a Jazz and Lincoln Center for a number of years. Was the first, you know, Booker for Dizzy's. But the Keystone Corner, that was, like, really his big thing.

And it was a great club in San Francisco for years. And then, you know, he produced records for fantasy and Concord, a lot of the left coast stuff. Great guy, Ta Barcarc. Going Strong. I think he's living in Florida now, actually. Awesome. Yeah. Cool.

I like this list a lot, man. I'm glad we did it. Not the Mount Rushmore's of jazz, but the bedrock. Ooh, I like that. That's great. Foundation. Foundational. Foundation.

Foundational. Foundation. That's right. Speaking of unsung, we're actually becoming less than unsung with these great ratings of reviews we've been. People are singing. People are singing our praises. We're going to read a couple of, would you mind indulging me for me to read a couple of reviews?

I don't think I could stop you if I tried. I couldn't. Okay, so we've got, this is from the G1234. I don't know. You know, when you put your username as the G1, 234, it's almost like you think it's asking for a password. Anyway. Yeah, I bet if you try to log in and ask for a password,

if you put that, it would work. Exactly. Yeah. But he or she says, excellent, five stars. Excellent as ever, great stuff from the UK and Northern Ireland. So thank you for that. Now, this is kind of over the top. Matt Huntington, big shout out. What's up, brother? From the USA, 10 and a half stars out of five.

That's crazy. Ten and a half stars out of five. But look, he's got some logic behind you, some inner logic. His review is, that's the rating. Ten and a half out of five. And then his review is, these guys give 210%. Very insightful advice for players. It's good at math, at least. He's very good, man. Very insightful. It's so precise, man, with our effort level. I do feel like we could give more, though. If we're at 200 and you. 10, there's got to be 300.

Bro, I'm giving all I got. 210 is your top, right? It's actually 105 each. Very insightful advice for players of all levels. Great humor throughout. My favorite episodes are where they get into the weeds of playing and theory. Love the episode on Panatonics as well as the one on how to play fast. So Matt will probably hate this episode because we didn't talk about theory of playing at all.

But we'll be back to that. Have we done an episode on Panatonics? Yeah. Oh, man. We should do another one. Yeah. Cool. Thank you, Matt. So please keep the ratings and reviews coming because it boosts our ego.

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