You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - Our Mt. Rushmore of Jazz Musicians (Not Pianists) - #67

Episode Date: April 7, 2018

Today we reveal our list of who we consider the most important figures in the history of the music See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

I'm Adam Manus and I'm Peter Martin and you're listening to the You'll Hear It Podcast Today we're going to give you part two of our Massive Mount Rushmore re-chisling My shoulder hurts from all the chiseling we did yesterday Are we sure we're ready to do this again? Don't we want to do some kind of like list of seven crazy altered dominant cores we can give these folks?

Well you remember the big problem yesterday It wasn't even so much the chiseling with your shoulder It was when we traveled to the wrong Dakota Because we didn't know if it was north or South Dakota That the darn thing was located did. Sorry, folks. We're in practice rooms like all the time. That's right. Shit, bro. Okay, so yeah, due to

our bad time management in yesterday's episode, we only, no, we were having fun with the seven jazz pianists, so we decided to split things off. We called it an audible because you'll hear it. And we're going to go with our Mount Rushmore of seven jazz artists. So let's listen

again, because it was such a fun question from Dan. Hey, Peter. This is Dan. I wanted if you could answer the question, you and Adam. what is your Mount Rushmore of jazz? So the four people you put on Mount Rushmore and also I'd like you to do it for jazz piano. So one for jazz and one for jazz piano.

And you'll hear it. Thanks. Cool, yeah. I mean, this four thing has got to go, Dan. As a regular listener, you ought to know by now. It's seven or nothing, buddy. Yeah, this is like the Chinese New Year with two is the lucky number, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So let's start things off with, Okay, I mean, when we talk about, I mean, this is going to be ridiculous, just like with the jazz panis, the errors of remission already are there. But it's, you know, it's fun to pick seven that we just got to make sure we got to get seven good ones. And it's such a, you know, so many great options. That's not hard to do. But I'm going to go first with Billy Holiday. Good call. Billy Holiday, I mean, you know, what can I say beyond? She kind of typifies the spirit of jazz and she's one of our greatest vocalist stylists. I mean, this doesn't even important to say one of the greatest. I mean, she's just one of the greats. Yeah. And, you know, as just a pure vocalist, as an interpreter of wonderful songs, as a composer of just incredible songs, you know, an interpreter, her interaction, her improvisation. I mean, it's just stellar. And her influence on her peers at the time is something that's not necessarily super well documented.

I mean, I think it is in one of her biographies, but musicians know it well. You know, her influence on Lester Young and just phrasing and stuff. Yeah, if you like the way Lester Young and Ben Webster, you know, phrase songs, that's thanks partly to Billy Holiday and her influence on them as a musician. I mean, really unparalleled as far as that, her ability to tell a story through phrasing and melody was unparalleled. And I mean, I think in terms of just enjoyment, she has brought to both hardcore jazz heads like us, to musicians, to hardcore jazz fans, and then she's in general public.

I mean, you go anywhere in the world, you might be in an airport or something. Her voice comes on. It's stunning to anybody that has ears. She's definitely like a gateway artist and one of those gateway artists that you're proud of. You know, like, some gateway artists you're like, oh, no, no, like that's really. Kennedy. Well, I know. Yeah.

But she's one where you're like, yeah, good on you. If you like Billy Holiday, then you are going to like Lester Young, then you're going to like this. You know, it's a good influence to have. Yeah. And I think that, you know, like any deep art in general, any deep artists, you are rewarded from continual listening. I mean, it's just like a great movie that you see over and over again. You find other layers and textures. And with some of her simplest performances to some of her more complex,

there's layers in there upon layers that, you know, repeated listening is really rewarded. And, I mean, if you buy a Billy Holiday recording for $999 or $1.99 or $1.99 or whatever, I mean, the amount of enjoyment you get, I mean, you talk about ROI on a purchase. That's right. I mean, you can easily go up to a million dollars on that purchase and you wouldn't feel like you're being ripped off. That's so true. So number two. Pressure's on. I mean, I set the bar high, you know. It says, on your list here, Peter, it says, C Parker. Oh, C. Well, that was just the suggested. You don't have to go with that. Oh, Charlie Parker. Oh, okay. Yeah. So that's right.

The yard bird himself, Charlie Parker, Charlie Parker, I most said. He was from Kansas City, not Chicago. But Charlie Parker, obviously one of the most influential musicians who've ever lived. Well, it may not be obvious. It's obvious to us. Don't be presumptuous. Oh, that's true. Well, I'm telling you now. He is.

No, I mean, you know, we were last, yesterday when we were doing our Mount Rushmore of pianists, we talked about how Herbie's, Herbie Hancock's influences in almost every pianist. I would say that Charlie Parker's influences in almost every jazz musician, not just pianist, but it's everywhere. I mean, you know, we are still talking about some of his, approaches to things in our music now 60 years later, you know what I mean? And so that's how important this guy was to the music. Yeah, and I think about, you know, I think probably all the people were going to end up putting on this list as well as the many more that we could put. One thing that probably binds them together, I mean, you talk about Billy Holiday, Charlie Parker, you know,

the influences on different instrumentalists, but just the influence on the music in kind of a spirit of how they phrase anything they play. So maybe being at a little bit different stylistic times, that thread that connects them being the spirit of their phrasing, the way they tell a story, to tell a story, the way that exuberance in their tone and stuff, like you really feel the connection to the roots of this music. Very exciting and really something that you can't just manufacture. So true.

So, okay, number three, we're going to go with, okay, let's go with Lewis Armstrong. How about that? Controversial choice. Yeah. Okay, I mean, that's, you know, I'm coming strong. I'm bringing it strong. Louis Armstrong, I mean, you know, just one of the originators of the modern style of jazz phrasing and the spirit of the music presented in a way that, I mean, I mean, it all goes back to in a lot of ways something that was just another recording for him, just another solo West End Blues. Changed the game.

It changed. It was a game changer. Game changer. Thank you. And then everything that he did, you know, up to the point, I mean, within the music and even beyond it, as an ambassador of the music in terms of his travels, an ambassador of New Orleans culture. You know, a lot of things kind of under the radar that New Orleans folks know that he did for the city and for the culture of the music that went beyond jazz. I mean, just a massive artistic. I mean, actually, he might be the one on this list or one of the few that actually could just be on Mount Rushmore, even beyond just his trumpet play.

That's true. Just as a jazz. Just as an American person. I mean, you know, they named the airport after him in New Orleans. And that was not a controversial thing I can tell you. Yeah, by far of either of these lists of our Mountain Rushmore, he is the most culturally iconic. Right.

Culturally iconic. I like that music for sure. And really invented so many of the things that we, that still keep this music going and are the best parts about jazz. Yeah. We owe to Lewis Armstrong. Yeah. Thank you, Louis Armstrong.

All right. So next, what is this number four? Yep. All right. Here's number four. This would be the proper Mount Rushmore, but we're not stopping after this. However,

we are going to add the great John Coltrane to this list. Another controversial choice there, buddy. What has he ever done? Well, I'll tell you what he's done. He completely changed the way this music was played in his era. I mean, he really helped sweep the change of, I mean, how many times, like, so if you look at his early work into giant steps,

where he kind of came up with his, his own concept of this, this major third movement and made jazz for the first time, I would think like, you know, a form of conceptual art, you know, he was really messing with our expectations. Yeah. I think during that era, and I'm sure other people can break it down more eloquently than that. But for me, when Giant Steps hit and he had this technique, you know, that, that to me is like

a sea change for how people approach this music. And then on through a Love Supreme, which I think is one of the great works of the world. bar the 20th century. It's a masterpiece. Not just him, but that whole band, Elvin McCoy. I mean, that record is so good. On through, you know, his later work where he got more and more into the avant-garde and push more and more boundaries. What's so crazy about that is then through all this is like a deep blues roots. You know what I mean? Like, it still feels like the blues, an amazing master of this music. Yeah, I mean, he's a, you know, like North Carolina. Carolina saxophone blues style like that's the foundation of his playing and you all Earl

Ball stick back to that whole thing like that's where he came from and he never actually abandoned that while but then he put this incredible modernist bent on that almost violently upon the music you know just through his force of will of how he heard it yeah and but I think you know he always had that phrasing even as he got totally modern very quickly like we talk about you know Billy Holiday Louis Armstrong that that that spirit in their phrasing he always had that that swing, that vibe. And, you know, I think he hit all the big points. I mean, you kind of touched upon as a band leader, putting that great quartet together that

really, I mean, we're still all imitating it. I mean, you can't get through a quartet gig without, you know, just trying to sound like, even if you try not to sound like that, or using some influence of the way. And, I mean, he put that together, you know, he put that together. And, yeah, a giant. Okay, so that's four. So we've got five, six, seven. We've got three to go.

Math is easy. Okay, I'm going to go next with Ella Fitzgerald. Good call. Okay, so we're coming back to another vocalist. And I mean, I don't really look at really the vocalist and the instrumentalist, the composers. It's all kind of the same thing to me. Again, I'm starting to see the threat of these giants are kind of their placement in the spirit of the music and just giants of the music. And Ella was, I guess, most known for being an amazing interpreter of popular song and a very incredibly efficient recording.

recorder of popular song. I mean, she covered so many songs so quickly. Yeah, very prolific and just had the ability to absorb the meaning of a song, the lyrics, and then to apply it in a super slick jazz way, basically on the spot, you know, in sight reading this stuff. But then, you know, she also had the other side of being an amazing live performer. She was an incredible pianist as well. She kind of let go of that, at least in terms of recording and public playing, I believe, pretty early. But that was a big foundation, you know, a great improviser, really, you know, understood harmony. and melodic movements in a very modern way

from the bebop era. She really is a bebop singer in a lot of ways and coming out of the big band tradition bridging into bebop. But she put all that together in this, what for somebody else might be seen, another lesser singer, lesser musician would be seen as kind of a narrow lens

of her specific style, which was so obvious and so wonderful because her voice is so iconic and recognizable. But her musicianship being at such a high level, her voice being at such a high level, all the kind of basics of musicianship in terms of time and swing and harmonic feel being so stellar and high level that it just kind of comes up across effortless and joyful to people. And she kind of understood that but had her humility within the music that it just all added up to just incredible performance after incredible. And so for me, like you really see that on all the great live recordings.

I love the studio stuff, but I love the live stuff. Totally. And also on top of this, sitting on a once in a generation kind of natural voice, You know, I asked one of my vocalist friends, what is it about Ella's voice that's so special? Yeah. And she said, well, there's just no part of it that has any weakness at all. Right. You know, just from the bottom of a range at the top.

Everything is strong. Yeah. I mean, you know, and there are only a few, a handful of people who are gifted that Ella, Diane Reeves, obviously, has that same kind of quality. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, Billy Holiday, who started on our list didn't have that. I mean, she had an amazing voice.

She was more, yeah, on the artistic side of things. Yeah, I mean, and so, I mean, I think with both of them, you're seeing an ability to control. and maximize their instrument in a very advanced and acute way that, you know, that just brought, I mean, you know, with great vocalists, and I mean, Lewis Arnsa, we didn't even talk about him as a vocalist, which is such a big part of what he was, too. I mean, you know, the vocals, we talked about this before, just have the ability to hit that high level of connection with a bigger audience in a very profound way. Yeah. So we've got, what, two more? Two more. Pressures on.

So number six on our list is the great Art Blakey, drummer extraordinaire, probably the, the originator of the idea of a jazz university, only his university was his band. Right. He had a rotating cast of musicians that were usually younger than him, and his book didn't change that much over the years, but it always was growing

and growing from some of the great composers of all time in jazz. Who happened to have in his band. He happened, yeah, Cedar Wall and then Wayne Shorter, and the list goes on and on. It's like amazing, amazing people that. Yeah, I mean, talent scout, drummer, mentor, you know, father in the music,

you know, joyful, ambassador of the music, you know. Who also just happened to swing his ass off. Yeah. Like, I guess that's important. Yeah, and had, he had, I think, such a distinct original sound on the drums, too, throughout his career.

Huge sound, you know, that just great, just like always sounds like he's bashing even when he's playing quietly. Everything is so intense. I remember here, did you ever hear him live? I never got to hear him live. I heard him a few times, and right at the end, unfortunately, for him. But I remember seeing him at Sweet Basel Club on 7th Avenue South in the village in New York when I was first up in New York, kind of late 80s.

And, you know, he had, I think it was Terrence Blancher, Jean Toussons from London, great tenor player. Mowgru, was it Mugre? I think it was Mugre Miller, maybe even built Benny Green. So some scrubs. Some scrubs, a bunch of young scrubbed. But, I mean, he was really, he had lost some hearing for sure by the. and he had this monitor right up by his ear. Oh, man. And he was just bashing.

But I mean, when we say bashing, like the level of musicianship still with which he could bash, it was incredible. I mean, to be able to do that and have that kind of control and just joy within the music. And I mean, look, I love that you chose a drummer because probably underrepresented in our Mount Rushmore so far. But what a massive part of the music the drummers are. Absolutely. And none bigger than Art Blakey for sure. Totally. So we've got one more.

and so I'm going to go with a very off the beaten path controversial. Oh, good. Everything's been straight down the middle. What do you got? Some might not even consider him part of American jazz, you know, more associated with the ECM movement and upper Scandinavian. No, I'm just kidding. We're going with Duke Ellington. I mean, how can we have Mount Rush more without Duke Ellington?

The setup was happening as it was happening. I knew what was coming. Yeah. I mean, Duke Ellington, I mean, what more would be? What more? We haven't said anything. Yeah, just go listen to his music. I mean, come on.

I mean, yeah, that's an easy one that you can kind of put up and, you know, compositionally, pianistically, band leader. Obviously, yeah. Again, phrasing kind of the spirit of the music, the way he phrased his arrangements, mentor, you know, talk about Billy Strayhorn, talent scout. Yeah. You know, he just really encompassed everything in the music. And I mean, those of you that are interested in on some profound words about Duke

Allington, go to YouTube or a podcast or whatever, search Wint Marsalis, Duke Allington. You can hear him talking very interestingly and profoundly about the influence of Duke Allington on this music and on our country and modern music in general. So as is tradition, I would like to add a bonus. Okay. Seven. Number eight.

Is the Jonas Brothers? No, I mean, we can't really get out of a list about Jazz Mount Rushmore without Miles Davis. Okay. If we're being true to ourselves. Yeah, that's true. Okay. Now, I'm going to add, I think we should, we should add Miles Davis as like number. eight. It's so hard to leave any of these people off.

Yeah. Because there's like three more now that I want to put on. But Miles really changed the game for a lot of people. Another cultural icon. Yep. You know. East St. Louis native. East St. Louis, about seven miles from where we are right now. Yeah. So I mean, yeah, Miles Davis. You know, like Duke-Gallington.

You'll Hear It. Is that what you're trying to get me to say? Absolutely. It works. Thanks for listening to this episode of the You'll Hear It podcast. You can go to you'll hear it.com to get more information, submit a question, or just say hello. Wait, you can do that. Absolutely. All right, and if you like what you heard, please leave a review and a rating below.

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