You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - Our SECRET Minor 2-5 Voicing

Episode Date: August 26, 2024

Adam and Peter take to the Speakpipe! It's been long enough - time to dive into our listener's questions such as their ultimate minor 2-5 voicing and what records have the best sound on the piano. Drop a question in our speakpipe if you think you need a little YHI support!Unlock your FREE Open Studio trial to become a better player today.Looking to drop a question? Want to listen to the audio pod? Look no further https://youllhearit.com/Have a question for us? Leave us a SpeakPipeCheckout courses from Adam, Peter and more at Open Studio🎹 Head over to our YouTube channel for a better look 👀.Follow us on Instagram

Hey, Peter. Hey, Peter, we've got some amazing questions from some of our listeners. All right. That have been left on the speak pipe like this from a listener named Hogi von Devious. Why does the, when the jazz standard, when it gets called, sorry. When, when shorter, sorry. When, when the jazz session gets called, when, Thelanius Monk, you know, sorry, when Giant Steffs gets called.

hold the jam session when it happens, you know? What happens then? I'm at a mess. And I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to the You'll Hear It podcast. Exploring music. Exploring music today brought to you by Open Studio at OpenSudioJazz.com for, whoa!

You jazz lesson needs. Peter, that's the kind of quality questions that we thrive on here at the You'll Hear a podcast. Was that a question or an answer or a statement? I feel like that was jazz brain rot? Is that a real? Did we actually receive that? Yeah. Does that speak to us or to our listeners?

Hogi's being a little Von Devious there. Von Devious. Yeah, which is very fun. No, we do have some great questions lined up here from you, our dear listener. I actually have an answer for Hogi. Okay. No. That's the answer to the question.

To all that. No to everything. No. Peter, if someone wanted to ask us a question that we might give them an answer to several weeks or perhaps months later, how would they do that? You would go to the all-new, redesign bespoken. You'll hear it. Make a note on that.

The You'll Hear It website, not affiliated with the You'll Hear It podcast. Totally unaffiliated. On the Worldwide Web? On the worldwide webs, the interwebs. You'll hear it.com. We're going to go old school on this and say no apostrophes in the URL. Just you'll hear it.

Y-O-U-L-L-H-E-A-R-I-T.com. You didn't think I could spell it at him. But I did it. I came through. Yeah. Came through like a true jazz piano. Go to you'll hear.com and leave us your voice memo, your speak pipe. Speak into the pipe.

Yes. Leave us a question. Yeah. And we'll get to it. I'm shocked that the speak pipe corporation is still operating and that that feature is still there. So grab it while you can't. It's actually a really fun way, kind of old school.

Do you remember the answering machines? Did you ever have one of those? Of course. Yeah, with the little tapes, little mini tapes. Yeah. Totally. And then later the little digital answering machines. And you would get home from a night out on the town and you would hit play.

Yeah. And delightful messages. Where's my money you owe me? You missed a gig. No mama. So now you see a little glimpse in the Peter's life in the 90s. We actually still have an answer machine. No, you do.

We absolutely do. You have an answering machine at your house currently? We do. Do you have a home phone line? We have a home phone line. You do not. You have a landline. We absolutely do.

Even my parents got rid of their landline. RIP 677-5-613. 5-0-9. we do. Kelly Martin thinks that there's some emergency situation that may bring down the cellular network systems and somehow a landline would still be there. Question though about how many spam calls are you getting every day? It's crazy now and with the just election stuff because you know they only call landlines. Yeah. I mean you get like constant Kamala, Mayor Pete. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Begging for money. Yeah. Yeah. Well, no, we get a lot of polling. A lot of polling. We should do a

jazz poll here. We should call, hey, leave in the comments. If you have a landline, leave us your phone number and the area code. Don't do that. Please don't do that. That is not safe. No, we promise to keep it safe. We should take a poll and use speak pipe is the. That would be awesome. Yeah. But really do go to yuleherit.com. We love, I know it's been a while since we've taken any questions here, but we get them all. We have archived them. And I'm really excited about today. Well, we've got a really good one to start here. This is from Lucas. Lucas is a long time open studio member. And he had what I think is. We'll put that gentleman to the front of the line. Yeah. Check this out. You'll like this.

you're like this. Hi, Lucas from Germany here. I've been a member since 2013 and learned piano from scratch through your lessons, so I cannot even begin to tell you how grateful I am for what you guys are doing. But I do have a question, and it's centered around rootless two-hand voicings. So one of the things I love most about Peter's playing is the sound of this comping. I'm starting to get a hang of the rooted two-hand voicings, and I've been trying to incorporate his approach to rootless voicings in my playing. And they seem to be commonly centered on a third and seventh in the left hand and stacked fourth in the right hand. But one gap I'm still struggling with is around minor situations.

Specifically, I have been unable to find a single example of Peter playing a rootless half-diminished chord in any of the hundreds of lessons. Isn't that great? I did four. Maybe I just missed it. but it seems he always either jumps to rooted two-hand voicings or substitutes that half-d diminished chord by a dominant cord. So if that's the case, could you guys talk about how you approach comping in a minor situation?

Lucas, I can kiss you. Genius question. Share the secret voicing I've been searching for for years. Either way, you get seven stars for me, and I'm looking forward to three new here live in Germany sometime soon. Seven stars. Seven stars. Let's bring back seven stars. Lucas referring to, seven stars. Seven stars. That's what we're, that's the aspiration. That's the

destination. That's the goal. Or it used to be. And then we gave it up. Can we, can we bring that back? Yeah, if you leave a rating and review on your podcast, whatever you get your podcast. Yeah. Make sure to leave a seven star rating. Right. A lot of times Apple like only lets you leave five, but we do encourage seven stars only. And you have to figure out how to do that. That might be adding an additional two. It's going to take some work on your part. Listen, we would appreciate it. Yeah, no line. Man, thank you, Lucas, for the great question and the old school. As soon as I heard him say this, I haven't found a single example.

I was like, oh, my God, he's totally right. Did you go and check? I haven't checked yet that I've done enough transcribing of your playing, Peter. Right. I can't think of, and I know a lot of your voicing, I know your go-toes. Do you have a rootless two-handed half-de-minuteed voiceing? I do, but it has a root on the bottom. That's what I'm saying.

You always put a root on it. For half a minute. So we're going... Like, if you were to play D-Miner 7-5. Well, you could put the root on top. I guess it's still not rootless, though, is it? So what are you playing there? What are you playing that?

That's C, E flat, G flat, B flat. That's root position in half a minute, right? And then you could put the root up on top. But what would you play if you're comping and you see a minor two five to C, right? Oh, minor two five to C. So you're playing in softly as in a morning sunrise. Okay. And you're comping for someone solo.

Yeah, D, F, A, flat, C. That's all you're playing? Well, maybe. No, but two-handed rootless voices. Oh, two-hand. Yeah, two-handed rootless voices. What do you do there? Root.

Flat and fifth? Lucas has exposed a hole in my plane. It's not a hole, man. This is, but this is very exciting. Okay, now I'm thinking about it. Okay, so in that case, so do-da-bo-be-boo-be-boo-be-b-. So if I'm like, I might do that, that does have the root in it, but it's up high. That's a flat-d-G-C-F.

This is what I was going to answer with, Lucas. This is your go-to for a lot of players. This is a... It's like a B-flat-13. A B-flat-13 or an F-minor-6-9. You could also think about F-minor 6-9. For sure. As your D-Miner-7-flat-5.

So here again, Peter, spelling it out from the bottom, you got A-flat, D-natural, G, C, and F. Two notes in your left, three in your right, usually? Yep. Yep. So this is your go-to. This is your go-to.

And you can actually use different inversions if you want. this is a good one. Yep. Yep. With like A flat, D, F. See, you could also do, I mean, now that's technically rooted because the D is on the bottom,

but still thinking about it like a B-13, like a B-7 or an F-minor 6 chord. Yeah. I think is the way to go. Big spread voicing. I think Lucas was talking about like just left-handed voice, because that is a time. No, he said two-handed root-less voices.

And then I'll definitely sneak in like, you know, the Herbie Hancock half. minutes with the E. Yeah, put the E on top. So here you've got A, flat, D, G, C, and E. Yeah. Another good. So if you're doing, you know, 2-5 in C minor, you might see Peter Martin or hear Peter

Martin do this, like something like... True show. I was about something like that. Yeah. Yeah, that's great voice, lady. Totally. To over that G7, sharp, 9, flat 13. But that, I think that is the key, Lucas, for a lot of half to minutes you see.

And I've, you know, in my studies of, of, of Peter and Jeffrey Keiser and a lot of other musicians. And then some of the old masters, too. Instead of thinking of the D minor 7 flat 5, you can think of it as Peter says, like that's like a B flat 13 shape or you might think of that as an F minor 6 shape. And you can apply that to your left-handed voicings as well. For sure. So if you have a D minor 7-5, any sort of F-minor 6 or F-minor 6-9 or this F-A-flat-C-D.

Which is just root position F-minor 6 actually, but over the D. After a minute. Right. And you can put a G in there at any point. You can kind of cluster it up to. Cluster it up is really good. I like this. Yeah, G, A, flat, C, a little three-note cluster.

And then explode out to the G7, flat 13. Then there's also, to Peter's point of, like, leaning on that E natural, like that sort of Locrian sharp 2. So this is one I might use, because depending on where you are position-wise, like, if you're doing a minor 25 in F, right, I like this one. G, D, F, A, C. Sort of F, try it over G and D flat. Like a B flat minor major, major nine. Yeah, and you've got the two. Or E flat seven, E flat 13 sharp 13,

sharp 11. A major third stacked on top of each other. Yeah, so this would be your G minor seven flat five, G, D flat F, A, C, to like this. You know what I mean? Or kind of thing. Yep. Yeah.

Yeah. Good question. Well, you know what's cool about this too? And you mentioned it, like, we even go back to the 25 to the C minor. Oh, so like, if you think about that B flat 13, but I like now that I've never thought about like this. But if you think about it as an F minor, 6-9 to G7, flat 13, that's kind of old school. Like we talk about the standards where it's like, yeah. Totally. Yeah.

It's absolutely, all it is is a sub-dominant chord. It's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a chord that precedes. the dominant. I love it when you subdominate me. What? Caleb, cut that. No, but it's a chord that is like the pen, the pre-penultimate

chord in a, like, it's the one before the... The pentagram ultimate. No, again, Caleb cut that too. But it is the one before the dominant, right? And so that could be the four chord. It could be the two-court. It could also be the six chord as a common pre-dominant chord.

And so that is very much related. That D-minor 7-flat-5, F minor six and A flat major six. Lydian. Lidian thing, yeah, are all related to that G. Yeah, for sure. Totally. Good. So I think I know Lucas, too.

This is the Lucas I'm thinking of. I've met him a couple times over Germany. And thank you for me. Lucas's been around for a minute. And it's amazing. I didn't know he actually learned how to play piano from open. But you can do that too. Incredible.

How about old friend Zach Wolf? Yeah. A good question about controversial. Hey, Adam. Hey, Peter. It is your buddy, Zach, from Houston. What up Zay? I am loving this great album series. It is so much fun. You've been having a ball.

I was especially excited when the Black Codes episode dropped. That was such a part of my childhood. Peter, I'm about your age. So thank you for that. But it got me thinking, instead of like the greatest albums, I would love to hear you address what you think are the most musically controversial jazz albums. I don't necessarily mean controversial politically. For example, Strange Fruit by Billy Holiday at the time was immensely controversial from a social and political standpoint. But today, it's pretty much universally revered in jazz circles. I'm talking about what are the albums that sharply divide the jazz community even today?

just one that pops into my mind would be Bitches Brew by Miles Davis. I feel like some people love it. Some people don't even really like it that much. But I would love to hear your take on what the most controversial jazz albums are. All right, Zach, that's a great question. And I love Bitches Brew as the example for this, because I think, Peter, if we can kind of scroll through, the obvious ones that come up are always going to be ones that are

sort of pattern interruptors, right? That are ones that are a little, they're controversial because they're kind of revolutionary. So like, I think in line with Bitches Brew, I think you can talk about the shape of jazz to come or no Coleman, definitely controversial. Still, I heard a guy on, yeah, I heard a speaker on a cruise ship once say that it was the beginning of the death spiral of the music. And for other people, it's their favorite album of all time. Was that a gentleman 117 years old, my chance? He is now. This was in the early 2000, so guaranteed he is now. I think another one that could fall into this is like,

Robert Glassers' black radio? You know what I mean? Controversial in that. Is this even jazz? Or is this where the music is going? Or what are these kids doing? You know what I mean? Like that kind of thing. I think even something like JD and Domi Beck is controversial. Or some of the IG people that we've talked about here. We've corked some of that controversy.

Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think those albums are controversial because they're pushing up against the status quo. Yes. As Bitches Brew has done. Right, right. So I would put those. I think there might be some other examples. We talked about timeout when we did the timeout session. Right, because it's funny.

So I was almost thinking backwards. I'm glad he said in a silent way. And mentioning Robert Glasper, that's kind of, maybe there's a couple of different categories because I was even going, I was thinking controversies in terms of they're really old, but they're really great musically. And some people think they've held up at other people like, oh, that's corny.

Right. Like a lot of Lewis Armstrong's work. I don't think there's any controversy. that Lewis Armstrong was a pioneer, an OG of this music. But sometimes I get the feeling that like if you really, outside of like West End Blues or Wildman Blues or something, like if you talk about, you know, anything else in Lewis Armstrong's career, even later on, it's a little bit like, oh, that's not really, you know, he had some stuff, but everyone else took the ball.

He kind of became an entertainer. And I think he stayed very musically relevant and revolutionary in a lot of ways. his approach, to me, it really stood the test of time. So I don't know, maybe a lot of people say, oh, that's not controversial. Of course, we all know he's great. But I think musically, there was definitely, I mean, there was times when, you know,

like the bebop musicians kind of look down, I think a little bit on that type of playing. I know there was a little bit of, you know, Brussels, bristled feathers. That's the correct word, Brussels. That is 100% correct. Yeah. Other ones I just noted down as he was talking in a silent way.

I think that's been one that people, people are like, oh, that's a great album, but no one really listens to it. I don't know how many people think that it's not musically relutionary or relevant. You know, I think it's hugely so. Money Jungle, I think that, that is like shafing for some people. I think it's a great record. Money Jungle? Yeah.

That's right. It was you that shapes a little bit at that one. I don't think it's my favorite. Okay. Any of those three artists, it's not my favorite. But would you say it's musically controversial? Yeah. I think it's, well, there's a bunch of people, because some people think it's

so great and others are like, eh. Some people think it's one of the greatest albums ever recorded, and I just don't hear that. And maybe that's me. And I think there's a whole contingent. Yeah, it's good. It's like an interesting combination of people, but musically, I don't, they go to some really interesting places, but overall, not my favorite Duke Ellington record, not my favorite Charles Binkas record, and certainly not my favorite favorite Max Roach record. I think the record in general, sound quality is weird. Yeah, it's really whack. I think musically it's super interesting. It's weird.

It's weird in a really interesting way. It's a very weird album. And I think there's some great playing on it. But yeah, I think that's what's cool about something that's controversial. It's right. But it's not something like, totally. Like it's kind of blue,

the opposite of controversy? Yeah, kind of. Would like, what's the album with Rocket from Herbie on it? That's got to be a little bit. That and the Miles stuff in the later stuff in the 80s. Yeah, but his future, I mean, is Rocket even, I don't think there's, there's only controversy or something.

somebody says that's his greatest jazz, like, or even that's a jazz record. Like that was such a, but what about secrets? I think that's more controversial for a lot of folks. Controversy around secrets? You love that record, sue you. Yeah, there's no controversy. No, I think a lot of people would be like, that's not a jazz record. Good for them.

What about like Herbie M1D sheet? In that era, that band. Yeah, it could be controversial. See, to me, that's, to me, secrets is way more controversial. Yeah, no, I get that too. As a jazz record. I feel like sunlight is more controversial. commercial than secrets because it's a disco record.

Right, right, right. But it's smoking. It's on fire the entire time. It's incredible. Yeah. But Bitches Brew is great. So Caleb and I are actually, we're playing Bitches Brew this weekend. We're playing five tracks of Bitches Brew on Friday, Saturday night at the illustrious jazz St. Louis.

Dropping the needle or performing? No, we're performing. Nice. We're performing. And we had a rehearsal last night playing through a bunch of the tunes. Yeah. And just really trying to get the vibe right, you know? I mean, there's the, like, loose arrangements, obviously, but it's like, it's all about the vibe.

and our saxophone is Kendrick Smith, incredible saxophone player here in St. Louis, asked me and kind of pose a question to the band at the end of the rehearsal, like, what do you think Miles was going for with this? Like, what is happening? And no one can answer to that. I don't even think the musicians on the session when you read interviews and listen to them talk about it. like I don't know if there's a it's like it's so mysterious

and I think Miles intentionally makes it sort of like this exploratory exercise for his bands and had for all the 60s and even the band with Wayne and Ron and Tony and Herbie like he's trying to like bring something out of his musicians that they don't know they have. Oh, you know what I mean? And I think Biches Brew is that an exercise in that. Like he's got this incredible

collection of musicians and yeah like the it's it's an incredible work really in that regard but i could see why it's controversial because it's it's asking it's almost frustrating with the questions that it asks which is ultimately very satisfying as a piece of art i was going to say isn't that what great art is both to do it's incredible at its best and that's and that like any piece of great cinema like it's going to leave you with some questions about like what is this what what is this mean and the greater sense of art and that's certainly Bitches Brew, I think, in a nutshell. And that's what makes it so brilliant and so controversial.

And for some people, unlistenable. Well, so this is interesting, we have some polar opposites because would you say, uh, bitches brew, there's an element of unsettledness, like, in terms of listening to it and playing it and understanding it? Yes. Yeah. Yeah, it's not settled. But secrets? Totally settled. Exactly. Tight arrangements. Very satisfying. Very satisfying. Easily satisfying. easily satisfying, like, could be in commercials. Right. But still fantastic playing, well-crafted. Not, not like... And beautiful artistic playing.

It's not like it's corny. Just as creative to me as Bitches Brew, but on the opposite spectrums of satisfaction level, on a visceral level. But I think Bitches Brew, the entire vibe of the album in a silent way, which is different, but a similar sort of aesthetic, is asking questions of its musicians and its audience that is going to be controversial.

You don't hear a lot of people calling Fitch's Brew Tunes The Jam Sessions. One, two. One, two. Yeah, no one's doing that. No one's doing that. No.

And... No one's called secrecy, though. Well, you are. Swamp Rat. We've played gentle thoughts. Genitals of gigs. That's true. Okay, I got one more for you,

just to throw in there. This is kind of along the lines to the Lewis Armstrong where I started. Sure, sure. Tell me this controversial. Duke Ellington, not that Duke Gellon has a great record, but is it a controversial take, if I say Duke Gellington, one of his greatest records and one of the greatest jazz,

big man records and arrangements of his, or compositions and arrangements, is the Nutcracker Suite. Duke Gellington's arrangement of the Chikovsky's Nutcracker Suite. I think it's brilliant. I think it's brilliant, too. Yeah, I think it's really, really brilliant. So maybe we're not controversial.

No. I think some people would be like, that's his most pop commercial, it's not really hip. I've heard orchestras play it where it is controversial, because it's not swinging. Controversial execution of it. I've heard some controversial execution. It's like a break dancer. But it's written for Big Band.

I know they've arranged it in different, well, obviously it's written for orchestra, the original. But that arrangement of Duke Allentons, I think, is fantastic. I think it could have been corny. Dude, there's so much incredible orchestration on that. Exactly. From both Tchaikovsky and Duke Ellington. I think it's great. Yeah, I actually did all.

a whole deep dive on that score reading of both Tchaikovsky and Duke Ellington's Nutcracker, kind of like comparing the arrangements and orchestration. A lot of interesting things. You don't realize, this is tangent, but I think oftentimes when we're voicing things in horns, we think about in terms of seventh chords as pianists, because we think a lot on seventh chords, Duke Ellington used so many triads. Yes. Triads on, like, you know, a G7, and he's just voicing the trombones like this.

You know what I mean? And sitting on it. And sitting on it over the G7 chord, I would never do that. And now I will do that because if it's good enough for Duke Cowlington, it's good enough for me. So, like, that was really interesting. Triads are everywhere. Triads. It's awesome. Anyway, you know why triads, Peter?

What? Because it turns out horns sound really good in tries. I know. Especially really good. I mean, they always talk about... Super clean and super easy to hear the pitch. They're always like... More than like that or that.

Right. Right. Yeah, you can't get away with this much. That's the Keith Jarrett approach. Well, I think it's more about like if they have some kind of melody or counter melody, voicing it like in some kind of like with a bunch of tension within the voicing, can kind of take away. Tangent, but I think that's relevant.

Okay. You ready for our next one? This is from Everett. This is a good, another good question being posed here. I'll be the judge of that. Hi, Adam. Hi, Peter. It's Everett from Montreal.

I'll be a fan of the show. I was just listening to your time out review. and I noticed this has come up in a couple album reviews that you guys will mention, oh, this recording is so good, except for the piano sound. And I'm curious, what piano sounds do you guys really love, and what do you listen for in a piano sound? I've noticed that I'm a guitar player, and I don't notice specific piano sounds quite as much, I think partially because I'm used to listening.

You know, I know what to listen for in guitar, but also I feel like there's a more obvious difference with recordings of other instruments and their sounds of Pat Martino, having, you know, very soft sound versus Grant Green being more bright and articulate. And you can make a similar comparison between, say, Stan Getz versus Coltrane on tenor sacks. But, yeah, the sort of sonic differences between piano players isn't as clear to me, even though, you know, I can hear the difference in style of stride, block chords, etc. So, yeah, I'm curious what you guys really listen for in a great piano sound.

And also, yeah, what are some great piano albums and how do you tell different piano players sounds apart? I'm probably a couple questions in one but uh I'm curious to hear your thoughts thanks can I play you a couple of mine that comes to line so here's one that I think is a great piano sound Bill Bill Evans from Explorations Riverside record ooh it's snare sounds I think it's for the time oh so good it's a great sound and it's distinctive not only that it's Bill Evans but this is Riverside or in keep news 100% the whole gang can I play another one

similar era yep Verve Oscar The Peters right simple yeah I know where this is going exactly

you know exactly where this is going happy happy sad pattern recognition good good bad how about this actually no this is Keith Sherrett life I'm just still doing

once I'm still doing good but very different very different Actually, that's live, right? Yeah. Yeah. A lot of verb, a lot of width, a lot of depth. Totally.

Okay, that's going to get us blocked too, my friend. So we got to talk over this. Yeah, we're talking over it. It doesn't actually matter. People get mad at me for talking while the music's playing, but we're required to here. Classic modern sound here. John Bryan, producer. Oh, this is bubbly, beautiful.

Who's that? Redmond down. Dry, though. Very dry. Bone dry. It's bone dry. Dry as a Phoenix Cistern. A sound that I... But beautiful. Yeah. Beautiful. Pure, direct. How about this? And a lot of this is a combination, Everett, of the recording quality,

a in-tune piano. Yeah. That's what got us on timeout. Right. The piano was out of tune. It was out of tune. And it's a touch of a brilliant player, like Sullivan Fortner. like Bradmanel, like Keith Chair, like Bill Evans, like Oscar Peterson. Boom, boom, boom. Sorry, I gave it away. Peter, you have any that come to mind? Favorite albums for the sound of the piano?

Those are all great. The record that we did last week with, what was that? That was a Warner Brothers. So probably like Matt Pearson or Kenny Kirkland with Kenny Garrett. I love the piano on that. Who was the engineer on that? This is Kenny Garrett. book we did a whole thing on last week.

Yeah. This, I think, like some of the other ones you played, is, like, they're all different, but this is from the school of, like, like, very accurate. A little bit, pretty close micing, I think. Yeah. But very accurate, not a lot of affectation on it. A lot of, not a lot of EQ, or at least not visible, you know, definitely separation. You can tell us to be able to get that accuracy.

Like, this is not recording the same room. I'll tell you what. You want to get one of the best. piano recording studios in the world can also go live. The bone dry vanguard. The bone dry village vanguard. I like this piano song, actually.

Always has a crushing piano in there. This one's played by our own Peter Martin. Yeah. Jig Jigab from Joshua Redman is feared in the moment. Yeah, and this is sort of the opposite of the one before this because this is all blend. Yep.

There's no separation. You're right on stage. It's live. I don't even think there was plexiglass. But listen. You can hear a lot of room, but luckily the room is the village vanguard. Yeah. It sounds amazing.

You know what else is coming to mind, Pete? This might be sacrilege, but come on now. How about this classic? This is great. Now, is this? It's got... Really? You don't like any others?

Caleb doesn't like any of the other choice. This has the classic tortoise shell EQ. But I think this might be Van Gelder. Yes, what I'm saying? This is the Van Gelder sound, but I think this is as good as a GER. gets. I agree. Ride symbol sound. Van Gelder's drum sound. That's as good as a Van Gelder.

Yeah, and I still don't, I mean, I love this track. And of course, I love that. I prefer, you know, more of a personal choice on that one. I would take the night train sound and the Bill Evans, uh, Riverside sound over this. Okay, this is a herbie that I really like. I have no idea who the engineer is, but check this. Yeah. This is a pristine record. Right. This is the Joni letters. You like this one? Oh, I thought you weren't going to, I thought it was going to be too. This is a well-crafted, not, this is not, this is not like, like a no EQ on the same room sound.

That's gorgeous. This is such an intimate, it's not a, it's a little bit artificial in a way, and then it sounds better than it almost ever could live, like the things, your ability to hear, but I love that kind of sound where it's gorgeous.

It's better than going on. It's kind of like you can watch the football game on TV. It's actually better than live because you can see things. Yeah. No, how about this one? Think about this one. You don't like this one?

No. Okay. I don't, I don't, stop. No, I'd put it like C plus B minus for me. C plus. Not the playing. Okay, can I just...

I don't know you. I don't even feel like I know you anymore. No, I've mentioned that before. Can I just direct you to this? What did you say? All right, we'll get there. We'll get there. Hold on.

Just want to direct your attention. Is this thing Gailder also? I think so, yeah. It's just squashed this way, not that way. That's beautiful. Dude, chikerea plant his ass. There's no doubt. But the sound of that register, Peter, listen to that.

He's so good, he's making a sound of it. Listen to how that pops up there. I know it's Chip. In that register, the NQ works for it, like, that made it off. Of course. Chick pulls it off, but it's not, like, it could be so much better.

It's just Chick is pushing it up so high that the ceiling is, it's like, he's pushed in the scene. You are really a Van Gelder hate. I'm not a Van Gelder. I mean, everything but the piano, I think, this is a very distinctive kind of. the sound. Yeah. This is almost as much about Dave King's drums

in the mix than it is about. And like his, so much of the drums is distant and the piano's closer, which is usually the other way around. This is the bad plus. These are the vistas. This is Flim. It's an Apex Twin song. Bad Plus? Apex Mountain

Alps. Apex Mountain. We should do a listen to this album. It's a classic of this one. We have to get a lot of, clear a lot of musical licenses for this. I know. episode. That's going to be fun. Everett, that's a great question. I don't know if we've settled it.

You can see it's a matter of taste. And even amongst the three of us here, Peter, myself, and producer Caleb, what was the original question? Is there a piano sound we actually like? Oh, okay. And the ones that we said we didn't like, were they mostly Van Gelder? Mostly Van Gelder, although the Dave Brubach timeout one, we also don't like. But also... But that was more the piano. Yeah, the piano can go out of tune in these sessions effort, and sometimes they don't

tune them, and we don't know why. It's because they were doing like 80 sessions a week. Right. Yeah. Well, let me, let me play you a piano song that I love this, that you're going to like and you're going to... Interplay was out of tune, but that was that riverside sound good.

Interplay was that river side sound. Yeah, the riverside sound that really has a warmth to it that I really look. Okay, I'm going to play you something that I really like here. Do you want to do a quick, uh, uh, sponsor plug while I'm pulling this up? Yeah, actually, don't forget to go to open studio, jazz.com to check out of your jazz less than needs, and then go to you'll hear.com and leave us your speakpipe. Leave us your question. We are going to be hitting them a little bit more regularly here on the podcast. And yeah, do what you got? Check it out. It's a great road sound a little bit.

It's really fully appreciate it. I don't know. It's a whirling, isn't it? Oh, is that a warily? Oh, my bad. Oh. That was a whirl. Okay. I just like that track. Sorry. That's good stuff. We've got another, we've got another speak pipe here from Jesse Rose. I just want to say thank you so much for this wonderful podcast. I absolutely enjoy your banter. You totally remind me of when I used to work on the cruise ship as a music director and used to do these listening hangs.

If you've ever seen inside of those cabins, we would literally shove a 10-piece band inside of my cabin and we'd all pick a song or so and just rate it. Gosh, it just brings me back to those days. Anyway, thank you so much for doing this. And thank you so much for Open Studio. Really, really appreciate the whole thing. And keep going.

Oh. There's no question in there. That's just a little nice thing I wanted us to enjoy. Thank you, Jesse, for the love. Appreciate that. Here's a really cool question from Stephen. Hi, Peter and Adam. This is Stephen from Edmonton.

I'm a long-time listener, first time, Speed Piper. I'm wondering if you could talk about the whole tone scale. I feel like I hear it a lot in Monk solos Barry Harris talks about it but it hasn't entered the straight ahead vernacular Is it too much of a novelty

Or a gimmicky sound It seems like it would be Super user friendly as there's only two shapes And it's symmetrical nature In particular I'm wondering You know I've heard Monk use it on the bridge Of rhythm changes Why isn't it used more?

What are your feelings on it? Do you use it? I don't use it as much as I don't know about you. It's like whole tone scale. Four or against? Yeah, I'm not four. I actually love it. And I keep,

can I be just super honest here? Is the word corny going to come out of your mouth? No, not at all. I keep meaning to work on it. And I keep forgetting about it. Buddy, there's only two. I know, but I keep forgetting to like put it in my playing. And sometimes, like, I'll go through stretches.

I'll go through stretches while I'll be like trying to put some whole tone stuff in there. and I'm like, oh, yeah, it's soulful and weird and beautiful. And I'll just forget about the whole tone scale. It's just not a part of my language quite yet. Right. I'm texting you. It's okay. I'm only 45.

I've got some time to go. I just text you. Text you. What do you text me? Hold on scale practice. Reminders. Oh, thank you. You said you kept forgetting.

Do you know what I mean? Like, I can play the whole tone scales and I know where they go. They go a lot of times over dominant chords or major chords with that sharp 11 and and sharp 5. but and you can do them over a minor, minor, major kind of things. And then there's that whole tone, the whole, you're cringing the whole time. Well, no, now I'm thinking like there aren't great, like, do, like the question is, do we not use them a lot or forget to practice them because we can't find enough places to do it?

We haven't heard them use very hip. We're not interested. Like, there's a reason for these things sometimes. You know what sometimes like, oh, I keep meaning to do that. There is like, no, if you kept meaning to do it, you do it. There's a little stigma in that it makes me feel like I'm just ape and monk, you know what I mean? A little bit. Like it feels like...

That's a big part of it. But he never played it like that. No, that's... And then the other part is the patternistic nature of it. Yeah. I don't enjoy also when I hear a player, be like... Which they can do, you can do with any scale. But for some reason with the whole tone scale, you hear a lot of players do some sort of like exercise with it.

But it is a beautiful scale. Is it? Yeah. Really? Why don't you practice it? I'm going to, starting today, today. But what you're referring to, Stephen, is a great point that you do hear Monk improvise on the bridge of rhythm changes. With like, you know, in the D7, a D-whole-tone scale.

It's a great dominant chord scale. You have the sharp 11 and the sharp 5. And then when you're moving, like, in course, you're going to the other whole-tone scale. So everything change. Yeah, and everything. It like flips upside down. All right, that's it. But if you do that at the bridge, that's like, that's one of the,

the easiest way to fall into the trap of, I'm being Sonnius Muck. Look at my funny hand and I'm dancing. I know. You can fall into that, especially if you get into, you know, start doing the runs or the, that's why I think that Munk,

you know, used this so well and became associated with him. It's like, he really leaned into using it. He wasn't just like, let me just use it a little bit because it might be corny. He was just like.

Yeah, just going to do it. At really important points, the beginning of the tune, at the end, you know, like on, what is he, is it at the end,

there's something at the end where he's just like, boba, bo, you know, like he ends there with a big run from a bunch of places he does it.

So I think that's the way to do it, if you're going to do it, is just to lean into it and not try to sneak your way. Although, now that I'm thinking, like he used fragments of it

in really interesting things. Absolutely. And I use fragments of it too. I'll do a little. That's the vibe. I think that's the vibe. In little five-note spurts or four-note spurts, for sure. And I think, to me, like, the altered scale,

I know this is an unpopular hot take I found out. It's got elements of the whole tone in the... Yeah, elements got the whole damn thing, bro. It doesn't have a whole thing. Well, it's a lot... It's all the one note, you know. But I think that's the way to use it without sounding like... Because that's the weird, though.

Yeah, yeah. Like, baby, dee-de-de-de-de-de-hmm. It is good to go into a commercial break on a sitcom. 20 seconds to ABC. Hell, that's mayonnaise. Yeah, totally. All right, Stephen, this is great question. And we're going to, Peter and I are both committing to the whole tone skills.

Here on out of the rest of our careers, whole tone all the way, baby. You like this? Yeah, what is that? Until next time. Oh, no, wait. We got close. Until next time. We've got a couple more here.

We've got a couple more. New podcast, new feed. Got a couple more. Here's another one from Everett in Montreal. It's another good one. Hey, Adam, hey Peter. A big fan of the show. My name's Everett.

I live in Montreal, Canada. I'm a great boss here, Peterson. And this fall, I got accepted into McGill University here for the Bachelor in Jazz on guitar. And I was wondering if you had any advice for people going into music school. I've been a little nervous about keeping up with all the great players. I'm sure we'll be there. And trying to optimize my practice for the summer going into school and the fall. and then also want to get the most of my time in school once I start there in September.

So I know both of you have been in the study at some great schools with some great teachers. And I was wondering if you had any tips on getting the most of it and getting ready, getting ready for going to school. Thanks. It's a great question. If I could do one thing that took me a long time when I went to school to do, it would be to establish my routine early. That's the one thing I think about is like it wasn't until a year two. that I really got my practice routine at school. And it's natural, I guess, because you're still being acclimated,

but I wish I would have realized like, oh, shoot, I got to wake up really early to go practice because I got a full day of classes. Yeah. And then I'm either, I got life. I got jam sessions and gigs and girlfriends and all this stuff later in the day. And so... You don't talk to the girls early? That's a later only.

That's a later only situation. But, no, but just making sure that I'm up and I get my work done early. Yeah. And that's like a grown-up thing. I was a kid. And so I just wasn't used to having to do work like that, you know, and having a social life because you're in college and whatever. And then all of a sudden it's like, you know, now that's part of my life.

I get up early. I go to work and I do get all the important stuff done, knock it out early. But I learned that in college. And so that would be my advice is start your, whatever that is, whatever that routine looks like. Yeah. But find your routine as quickly as you can find it. Yeah.

And I would just add to that that even if you feel like and ever you sound like, you may have some of this stuff together already, like say with the routine and like practicing early and that kind of thing. It can be a lot of changes, known and unknown, right? Anytime you go through transitions, you have the opportunity for challenges and growth and surprises and serendipitous things happening to you, new relationships with music, with life and all these things,

which are wonderful and you want to be open to those. But don't take for granted if you've got the routine already locked in because with all those changes, with those adjustments known and unknown, some of that stuff is not going to be as automatic to keep going as it is. So I think a little bit more thoughtfulness. If you don't have a routine, it's like do it before you go after school. Don't think like, oh, I'm going to go get my shit together once I get to school. That's going to be hard to do because you have so many other things you have to establish.

Yeah. And by routine, I mean like a practice routine. Right, regular time to practice. Yeah. But I know for me, like before I went up to New York, like I had a really good practice routine. In fact, I remember that was it the summer. before, I think it was the summer before I went up, I went to the Aspen Music Festival. I got like a last minute like opportunity to kind of go out there on a scholarship because

they basically they needed a piano. It's a classical music festival, but they have a big band. Yeah. That they do like certain events and like, yes artists would come in. None of these pianists can read court symbols. Exactly. They were like, we need a jazz piano. Somebody dropped out the last minute. I kind of knew somebody. I don't know how I got in it. But I went out there and it was great because I got to study with, you know, great classical play. It's beautiful. Oh, and by the time I got out there because it was so late, like all the student housing was full. So they put me up in this like five-star hotel for the stuff. Come on now. I was 60 years old. I didn't even have like, they were like, do you have a credit card for incidental? I was like, I don't have a credit card

for anything. No. Mama! But I mean, so when I was out there, I was practicing really hard because I was like trying, I was still doing the classical thing, but I was doing jazz. I had a lot of time. They had these beautiful practice rooms in the, like, you know when we talk about like, don't wait for the perfect environment. This was the perfect. This was the perfect. No, they were in the woods. There was literally Aspen trees in Aspen, and it was so polite of them to make the practice room, which were little individual huts with like Florida ceiling windows to be able to look at it.

You imagine being Aspen wealthy? Yeah, I was for six weeks. For six weeks, you're Aspen wealthy. Except I was going to McDonald's. And at that time, a Happy Meal, this is like 1987. A Happy Meal was like $17 already in Aspen, you know. Happy Meal. Why was anything happy meals?

Or is Aspen now played out? Are we talking about Sun Valley Jackson Hole wealthy name? I mean, those are still, I played in Aspen a couple years ago. It's not played out. It's still pretty nice. It's still pretty nice. If you're rich and you know what, it's not played out. One more thing I'll add to this effort for your college experience is one thing that I found.

I went to the new school in New York City, which has a great jazz contemporary music school there. And one thing that was very difficult for me as a really curious person is you can really get pulled in a bunch of different directions. You're going to have teachers telling you contradictory things. Yes. I had teachers who were really pulling me to like invest in bebop. And I had in the same semester a teacher pulling me to invest in more outside avant-garde playing. Yeah. And really, and like there's nothing wrong with learning both of those, but it's kind of hard to do simultaneously in the same semester.

It's like, it's what's so great about like a direct mentorship with one person is you're just going to intensely study what they can teach you. Right. But going to music school can be like getting a direct mentorship from like five different great, Right. Great personalities and great teachers, but it can be very difficult to then, like, retain some kind of sense of identity or direction. Yeah. So you might think about that as well.

If you're starting to be pulled in different directions, you might choose a lane for a while and realize that you can always switch that lane, but maybe not try to be in several lanes at once. Right. Right. To, like, focus on one pathway for you. That's great. Yeah.

And I think, too, go into it with, I think it's funny. You have to have an open mind. and a fixed mind at the same time. Fixed in terms of like these things, we're talking about practice routine, and you don't want to be rigid, but you want to like honor that because no matter what unknown opportunities

come your way, that's the one thing that's going to really, that's going to be the glue for any opportunities that come to you. Any kind of lucky things or serendipitous, you know, mentorships or something, is you being at that instrument. And I love this idea of doing it early in the day,

you know, get that out of the way. Because not only are you making the most important, The first thing is the most important thing, so you're honoring that. And you're doing it at a time, actually, which is sort of the last time in your life, you're going to have total control over that. A lot of people say it, like, high school. It depends on your living environment, too. And look, a lot of people go off to music school and have to work full time.

They might even have a family. They might have to be supporting, you know, elderly relatives. I mean, there's a lot of, like, not everyone just goes off and has this time. And I don't want to, I want to honor that thing of like, you might not be able to practice more. You might be transportation to get to school. So, but however you, however, you, you. can do it, like if that's 20 minutes, if that's intense listening, like honor that time,

because later on when these different opportunities come, you want to be open. So like you say, you might be like, I'm going to study with this person. I remember there was a pianist that came to New Orleans from Houston, great jazz pianists, who's still there, a wonderful guy. And his, like the last couple of years he was in high school. His dream was to study with Ellis Marcellus at the University of New Orleans. And Ellis, this was, you know, when he was still around, obviously, and still teaching. It was just a legend, especially down in the Gulf Coast region.

And Ellis decided to, this was right before he retired, though. I guess he found out that he'd actually had some sabbaticals stacked up. And he was kind of like, oh, I didn't know I had a sabbatical. And they were like, you've got to take them now or you're never going to be able to take him because you're going to be retired or whatever. So he took a sabbatical and he kind of asked me to teach his students that semester. And, I mean, he asked me to teach his private students. And this young pianist came from Houston, like basically found out once he got to New Orleans

that this, you know, Ellis Marcellus, his dream, you know, the legend that he wasn't going to be there, which was the whole reason he was coming to New Orleans. He had other opportunities. And he's like, I don't know how far before the first lesson with me, but it felt like it was like when he walked in, he was like, it was just like, you're not Ellis Marcellus. And I was like, I was probably, I was in my, I was in my mid-20s at the most at that time, maybe even, or like I was really young. I don't know why Ellis had me do that. He was desperate. It was last minute. But it was an interesting thing.

And like, he was crushed, this pianist. Yeah. And I, but I also was, like, not far enough away from that to, I was a little older. I was maybe 26, 27. But anyway, I wasn't almost Marcellus. That was the important thing. And, but I kind of work with him. And instead of being like, do you know who you're studying with?

I can show you stuff too. I've done this. No. I was also, like, you know, really trying to be kind with him. By the end of the semester, we ended up being great friends. And so, like, the first lesson, I was like, well, we're not going to do anything at the piano, what are you into? And he was just like, studying with Ellis Marcellus. That's what I'm into. I was like, I said, you play sports or whatever. And he's like,

well, I used to play basketball. But then I started thinking about studying with Ellis Marcellus. And I was like, let's go play basketball. So we went out the first time and just shot hoops. And, you know, he's like young and good. And I was already old and washed up. And he's like, hooping up on me. But it was fun. And then we just started talking about music. What are you into? You know, Ellis Marcellis. I was like, let's listen to some recordings. Let's learn. But I just got a rapport going with them. And I ended up kind of, kind of, I didn't know it at the time because I was young and dumb too, but I ended up kind of mentoring him. And like, I was doing a lot of gigs at that time. He started coming to my gigs and like he would even like start recording my gigs. And then he started getting gigs.

And that young pianist ended up being John Batisse. No, no, no. This is way before John Matisse. Was Robert Glasper? Oh my gosh. No, it was it. But this guy went to the same high school as Robert Glasper. Oh, yeah. And in fact, I remember that's when I first heard about Robert Glasper. From this kid? This kid who was a little bit old, like a couple years ahead of Robert. I think. Or maybe right around the same. But I remember him saying, because I was like, man, you sound great. He's like, you should hear my high school, man.

I got, there's this guy coming up. I think he was calling Bob at the time. I don't know. He's something, Bob, no, Rob. He's like, this guy, Rob, man. He blows. He's like, everyone's going to be hearing him. I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Everybody's got back. I was like, wait, Houston. I met Robert Glasper in New York. I was like, wait, do you know? You know? Yeah, yeah. I know. I was like, oh, yeah, I heard about you, you know, years ago.

That's amazing. But it's just to say... Did he ever get to study with Ellis? He did. The next semester, yeah. No, I started going over to LA. I was like, you are coming back next semester. You owe this kid.

But so just to say, Everett, that like, be open to different situations. Like, don't go in with such a fixed, but going with a fixed mindset with your practice. But be open to, like, where that mentorship's going to come, where that opportunity is going to come. Don't be so much like, I'm going to get this. Just like, be open to getting something. I mean, you're going to McGill. That's a great school. But so you don't know where the opportunities, if you're ready for that,

you know, sometimes luck happens to the people that are most open to it happening. You know what I mean? Something that might help ever too, that I remember we had a class with Sean Jones where he talked about this. And it's something that I wish, I think I would have done a little earlier. But it's now certainly worked for me and many other people. You too, Peter, I know do similar things like this later in my life. But I, you can, it's almost like, it's almost like savings. Like if you start this young, you probably get a lot out of it. So think about before you start school here in, fall 2024, think about where you want to be in fall 2034. Like, where do you want to be 10 years after now? Like, musically, where do you want to live?

What do you want your life to look like? You know what I mean? No, you're just good. No, you're looking at me. You want me to answer? Or is this forever? No, this forever. Oh, cool.

You got me scared there. Peter. No, you should be thinking backwards. You should be thinking. I'm like, buddy. My best years are behind me. You should be thinking about 10, 20 years ago. No, but I'm saying for to, in order to be able to like, this isn't like setting specific goals.

This is still allowing you to have some openness, but for you to sort of start developing a vision of where you see your life going. Not just like this is the person ever it is, but how do you want your daily existence to be? Like, what city do you want to live in? What do you want to be spending your time doing? Do you want to have a family? Do you want to be traveling? Do you want to be just playing?

Do you want to be recording? Like, take a little time and maybe with a little bullet journal or something, just just write down a few things that you would like to do 10 years from now. Do you want to have a lot of money? Do you not care about money? Like, I've never been like super bent on getting tons of money. Ironic, because you're rich A.F. Completely. No, no. No, but it's not something I've ever like.

That wouldn't have been in your 10-year plan at his age. Not even on the page, right? And so because for that reason, I've always made choices that have not revolved around that. But some people that they want more security in that regard, and you have to make decisions, right? Right. And you've got to be honest as you're doing. Totally.

This will force you into being honest by looking at that big time. This shouldn't be a, this is what I should be in 2034. This is like really contemplate you ever as a human being. What are your values? Like, look at what you like now. What do you see for yourself as a, you know, a 30-year-old as opposed to a young man or however old you are, like, or in 10 years? Like, what do you see for yourself?

knowing who you are. Try to be very understanding and accepting of the person you are and then see if you can come up with a kind of north star of how you want your life to go down day by day. Not just like, I want to be famous and rich or whatever, but like, no, how do you want to spend your time? Yeah.

Because that's what life is, is living moment to moment. So how do you want to spend that time? I think that's so great. I'm actually somebody, a young musician, I'm mentoring right now. I gave, you know, I was talking about, I said five years. You know, I was like,

where do you see, you know, what's kind of a goal placement that you would be at in five years. And he was a little bit like, well, you know, I don't know because I want to be, I don't like to do that because I want to be open to the moment and not knowing this. And I was like, well, hold on, this doesn't mean, this is not a contract. This is not like those things where you write down. I guarantee myself in 10 years, in 5 years, I will have X amount of money I will be working with such as, it's not that. It's a really, where do you see yourself in 10 years now? Yeah. You know, and it's, and it's, not only it should be, but it will, you don't have to worry about it.

It's going to be a moving target. Yeah, you can change this every six months, every year. And you will. Yeah. But it's going to help you define, like, the reason why you would do this is because if you say, okay, I really want to be living in Europe playing tiny jazz clubs around Europe when I'm in my 30s because it seems like it would be a great time, right? Well, you're going to make decisions, like finding out what they're doing over there, those tiny jazz clubs in Europe. And then you're going to learn how to do that in the next 10 years. and then learn who to meet, who to connect with, who's doing it, and then go do that.

Or I want to be living in New York City making super weird, creative, avant-garde, noise jazz. Right, we can't say weird anymore because that's taken on a new connotation. True. Super interesting, curious, noise jazz. Well, you're going to have to, like, make some decisions, right? And you might be thinking like, oh, yeah, well, I already know I like that stuff. But there's something about the process of actually, like, whittling down how you want to be spending your days. and then writing it down.

It kind of like makes you see it in a different way. And then hopefully you can make some choices as you're at school to, again, help you to stay in the lane that you might want to do that. And then again, like Peter, you just said, like, if you then discover, like, I had no idea, but I loved Brazilian music. And I didn't know that until I met this Brazilian music at McGill, a musician at Miguel, and now I want to live in San Paulo and just play with all the, that's going to change what you do.

And then you should then update your... But you'll be aware. I think that's what it is. Some younger folks or any age or afraid, first of all, they're fearful to they're fearful to put where am I going to be in 10 years

because then first of all, that might have to be actualized. And we all have a fear of success actually. Yeah. Like that's part of the human, not all, but most people do. And so then we're like, we don't even know, but we're like, wait, how am I going to start sabotaging myself? Okay, the first way is I'm going to be like,

I don't deserve to be there. That's right. I don't, or I'm not good enough to be there. Or even though I'm good enough, I'm not smart enough, or people hate me too much. Or my dad did this. I mean, my favorite one that I used to use was I could do that if I wanted to. Right, right. Like, I could do that, but I don't feel like, that's not me.

There's going to be a hundred to one. It's a cop-out city. Yeah. Our egos will use whatever excuse it can, not to actually do the thing that we're trying to do. And there's already going to be barriers that other people or life or the weather put in front of you anyway. So the great thing about the 10-year thing is, like, you get to leap ahead. Yep. And then kind of play make-believe, but make a flexible contract with yourself, too.

And then leap right back to the moment and be like, well, I don't have to get there. Now, this isn't 10 years. But what is that saying? The other thing, as it gets closer, it forces you to, you make a list of like where you want to be. There's a way bigger list of where you're not going to be. Yeah. By saying you're going to be there. That's right.

Which starts to make life simpler. Yeah. So we got this, again, this idea from Sean Jones. and he actually did a five-year plan where he said, I want to be the lead trumpet player in the Jazz at Lincoln Center Orchestra. The only working big band in the world. I want to be the lead trumpet player

of the greatest big band around, right? And he had a five-year plan when he was in college. And then he reversed engineer. Well, what would that take? What do I need to do by year four to make that happen? Where do I need to be in year three? What do I need to do this year to get closer to that? What do I need to do this month

to get closer to that goal for the year? what do I need to do this week to get closer for that goal for the month? What I need to do today to reach my weekly goal? And he made it in three years. He was in that band. It was crazy. And didn't he have one, wasn't that Sean that had a goal? Because he had been doing since he was even like younger in high school.

Maybe it was part of that his, the earlier goal. And this was so cool that Sean shares all this. This is why he's such a great educator and mentor himself now. He's only getting better too. Yeah. But he had one that was like one of his goal. Oh yeah, that was like his professional goal. And then he had a personal goal of becoming best friends with Wintmarsallis or something.

Because he's like, because that'll work with the other goal. See if I can do that. Thinking of all the angles. Yeah, yeah. He's just a brilliant musician, obviously. But when you start to see like the kind of lifestyle design as well as musical life design and how they how they weave together with somebody like that, it's super interesting. And we've used this here at Open Studio. You know, people ask how is Open Studio grown so much in the last five years?

It's through this kind of thing of like really thinking. about what do we see for Open Studio five years from now, 10 years from now. Yeah. And then, okay, well, we're going to need a big studio to make that happen. Yeah. So we're going to need the right space. We're going to need to hire people who, you know, you hired me with really not much for me to do at the time.

I mean, I had things to do at the time. But like... But it was also like, I was like, see what you can create. See what you can make. And then we're going to try to meet this vision of becoming this, like, you know... And then there was, I can't pay you this month, maybe next month. Or maybe even the month after. see. But speaking of growth and plans and everything, we have to talk about some, he's smiling.

It's just like slowly going down. We are a little stagnant on the podcast. Let's be honest about it. In terms of listenership. Okay. Let's do it. No, we're a little. And so we have a big ask. But you know what? It's actually not a big ask. It's a big give that we're already giving to our dear listeners. If you've made it this far to the podcast, we need you to spread the word. And you know, we used to say, give us seven stars, give us a review, give us a like. Of course, do all that. But I'm going to ask for a little bit more. You know why?

Because we've given so much today. You know it. If you're still here, did we drop some value bombs? Caleb, can I get an amen? Did we drop some vibe? He was the most begrudging amen. Okay, there we go. But we're going to ask for you to share this.

Where could they share it? Social media would help. Social media. You mean, Facebook, if you're over the age of 50, Facebook would be your place to go, right? maybe Snapchat. If you're between 46 and 49, that's probably the place.

Instagram is wherever you'd like to. Call the phone. Phone a friend. What happened to that? Can we phone a friend? Right now. Call the most famous person in your phone. Yeah.

But this is the way the podcast grow, and we realize we haven't been making this ass and we haven't been talking about gala either. What's gala? Gala. Gala? Gala. The gentleman in this agreement. And that is that we will deliver you a podcast,

and you, to do, although it's a little bit worn out, is share the love. Okay. That's all we're asking for. Don't send any money. We won't accept it. We don't have a way to accept it. Venmo Adamannis 1.

It is actually Adamannis 1. Is it really? It might be. Oh, let's save anybody Venmo. Is this seriously? Adamannis 1. I don't know. He doesn't know, so don't do it.

No, but just please send us to a friend. Send an email. Send a snail mail to your friend. Would that kill you? Yeah, probably would actually. It's dangerous. But share the love a little bit. How else could they share?

Caleb. We don't know. Post it. You know it would be cool? Make a flyer. Could they make a flyer and post it somewhere? That would be awesome. Yeah. But we're trying to get, we're trying to get a little bit stuck out of the weeds here on our, on our listenership, so we'd appreciate it. We got anything else? That's it. Well, until next time. You'll hear it.