You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - Peter and Adam's Approach To Wayne Shorter Tunes

Episode Date: October 28, 2020

It's another live edition of You'll Hear It where Peter and Adam take your questions - in this edition, Peter and Adam discuss playing late '60s Wayne Shorter tunes, sight reading, and arpeggios.Interested in more music advice? Go here to browse our catalog of jazz lessons and courses available for purchase. And be sure to check out our All Access Pass - every course from Open Studio on every instrument.Wednesday's Open Studio Live Events:1:00 PM - Adam's Daily Guided Practice Session (for Members Only)3:00 PM - Edu Ribeiro + Ramon Montagner | Drum Conversations + Q&A on YouTubeFor the rest of this week's calendar, follow this linkLet us know what you think by leaving a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review, or head over to our YouTube channel.Follow us on Facebook | Twitter | Instagram See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Asher says just down there, what's your approach to playing 65 to 68, Wayne Shorter tunes as compared to American Songbook standards? Peter, you do a great version of Infanize. And I'm wondering what your thoughts are. When people say Wayne tunes, I think what they're really talking about is non-functional harmony, right? These series of usually like major nine, minor 11, some major minor seven stuff, right? that doesn't seem on the surface to have any relation to each other, but as a whole really paints this beautiful abstract picture. So like when you do a tune like,

when you play a tune like infinites, what's your approach? Well, I think that kind of composition, and I would say anything in terms of what Asher, you know, 65 to 68, Wayne Short, like whatever we call sort of modern, like is 1965 modern?

I don't know. But, you know, modern jazz standards, I almost call them, like modern jazz compositions. It's only 55 years ago. Exactly. I think as compared to American song, which there's, I think an attention to detail in how they're written is very important. This is not to say that like really learning standards correctly and the original melody

and the lyrics and stuff, that's not to say that that's not important. It's just I don't think we can bring that same mentality when we bring it to a Wayne Shorter composition because. because he crafted that song to be played in most likely a very similar instrumentation and ensemble sound that we're going to play it, even if we're playing at solo piano or something. So it's not to say that we can't take liberties with it, but there's so much more there typically than like, say, Mac the Night for something

where you've got, I think, a little bit more ability to be able to kind of arrange it and to kind of make it your own. Infanized, we can also make our own, but we would be remiss, I think, to skip over the specific parts of the composition that go beyond just your lead sheet. Right. You know, whereas, and I could be wrong on this.

I don't know. I'm not like, you know, like Bill Sharlap is an expert on playing the Great American Songbook on a jazz piano, solo piano, or trio or with a vocalist at just such a high level. Yeah. You know, so I'm not saying that I have that level of understanding. But with Wayne Shorter's composition,

Like I think that there's very specific things, for instance, on that tune that you're talking about. So this, I guess I should cordy it up, huh? So I hear a lot of people playing like that, which is, what does they call it that, a flat 9 sharp 5? But the way that they wrote it, now somebody could go back and be like, I'm wrong. This is what I remember at least. Flat 9 with the 13. So you got that F sharp triad there, right? Now, can you do?

a lot of different things you know E flat over A yeah you do whatever you want right let me get this out the way so folks can see what's up but to me there's a magic at least in knowing this and starting like that level of precision

with Wayne's compositions I find really worked well there's another thing uh no see now I'm messing up yeah the bridge okay so at the beginning of the bridge you got E flat major and then you got E major over E flat major

over E flat major or E flat fringing, I guess. And then you've got, because of the melody, that E flat with the sharp 11. So I don't know why a lot of people will play. You're already playing the Lydian. Yeah, it can fit. It's like on a standard where you're adding, yeah, whatever. But here you're giving away the next part.

So it's like all these things that somebody like, you know, Wayne crafted in his tunes. It's like attention to detail. I think that's the most important thing. You know, notwithstanding our buddy Jeff. Goldblum who's going to be on the podcast we hope in January. I love it. More on that coming soon. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, and then it goes to it. It's not, we don't need to fix it, right? We don't need it. I mean, I love that. Dominant 7 with the majors, you know, that's a cool sound. So, like, Herbie stuff, like, play it. You can play it different ways and it sounds okay, but, like, get the details of it. Then you'll have an insight into, like, their way of playing.

Then you can take it and go a lot of place. I mean, I play these tunes, and I, It's not like I'm like, I am sticking right to what Wayne Shorters mindset was at that time. But I do know where it started from, at least in terms of recording. I've never asked him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've wanted to. I've been around him and I'm like, uh, yeah, good.

Hi, Mr. Shorten. If you're wrong, someone on here will let you know. I got an email this week from Jay. What's up, Jay if you're watching. I guess I started to play. Oh, I like the way this is going. You got to Jay. What's up?

Jay. No, Jay is a nice guy. But I guess I started to play I fall in love too easily. and I play it how I learned it. Wrong. Yeah. So I play it like this, right? Well, that's not right.

Everybody knows that there's that half stuff there. And Jay was very kind that, you know, the way Jules Stein wrote it. Right, right, right. Or whatever. I'll probably just mess it up there. I think for a lot of people, it's like whatever you listen to first is just ingrained in your mind. I'm always doing a wrong thing that people always reminding me. and it's bad.

So what I'm not trying to say, I think what we're not trying to say is that, oh, with standards, you can slop it up with Wayne Shortert tunes. No, not at all. We're not saying that. I know it sounds like that. But I've done...

Send your letters to Bill Sharlap at Billsharlap.com. Is that right? Or is it? I think it's the first time it's... And the second time is... Right. So I messed that one out. Where you...

I know where you messed up because these were the first open studio emails I had to answer. At the end of the tune, like you had You went up I like that better But it's really

Well I don't care I like my version It's like That's right Yeah correct That's correct Okay Woo

The standards police Oh my gosh There's just There's piano bars in New York City Where they just talk about this endlessly Yep Thank God someone is Okay

Going down Oh there was one good one here from Rich Any tips for speed reading new material. I sometimes still mentally transcribe base staff notes to their treble staff equivalent. Interesting. Yeah. So Rich, speed reading or or site reading is just like anything else. It's a muscle that needs to be exercised. If you want to get better at it, include it in your regular practice routine. One easy thing that you can practice doing with it that will really help you, I think, grow if you don't do this, is practice reading ahead of what you're

playing by at least, like start just simply by a few beats. But there's actually some scientific analysis about where, like, really amazing site readers, where they're looking, they're all looking like two to four bars ahead of what they're playing. They're all processing information that's about to happen seconds before it happens. So practice doing that. Practice looking ahead. When I started doing that, it really changed how good of a site reader I was. I thought you're going to say they're looking for love in all the wrong places, but they're looking on the wrong part of, I forget. Yeah, you know, if you're looking at just what you're playing, you're going to be too late.

Yeah, and I think this is another example of what we were talking about before in terms of when, you know, if you're shifting things over to treble instead of the base, that is not like a dominant hand, non-dominant hand thing or like, oh, I can see things better. That's just amount of time. So you're probably looking at a lot of lead sheets in treble cleft. So what you need to do is spend a couple of weeks just site reading base stuff. Yeah, get like a base method book or you can probably download a PDF for free or on script or whatever it is. just anything. Or it could be like a bass vocal

choral part that's in the anything in the bass class. Literally anything. It'll happen a lot faster than you think if you just spend

like you said a couple weeks. Like when, you know, my band the 442s, when the 442s, when Michael Kazimir joined our violist,

we didn't have viola and every time I had to write for string quartet you know, each new time or orchestra I had to be like, okay, this damn alto cleft.

I know. Where is it? But now, I can read it just as solidly as any other clef. And it only took literally just a few weeks. And the great thing about the alto clef, it's kind of like for a lot of... It's galo clef is dope. Yeah, it's kind of like, especially for vocal stuff, like for a lot of female vocalists

that have a big range. And hell vocalists. Like, unless you're like a super high tenor or super low bass, I love the alto. I know. And for a lot of the stuff, you know, that we like to write for piano or play, whatever, it falls so much better. Basically, if you're in here, Alto clef, which is this is where it's at, right? Yep.

If you're in here, Alto clef, come on, Cordy, don't you have Alto clef? Alto clef is where it's at because you don't have to change clefts as you go between, especially melodically. Right. Yeah, it's awesome. Exactly. Yeah, so it's just a matter to spend time. But as we spend time, I would recommend that, like what we were talking about earlier, you know, practicing the different keys, get away from the thing that you already know. So it's not just enough to let me practice some because you want to build up that as a specific muscle.

So you need to abandon treble clef for a little while, at least mostly. Cool, cool, cool. We got 44 likes. People like it. If you're enjoying this and getting some value out of it, how about like and sharing? Yeah.

You know what I'm saying? Hit the smash. Wait, hit the smash button. Smash the like button. Hit the smash the like button. Hey, give us a subscribe to if you're not a subscriber. That's right. We're about to,

yeah, actually, that would be good because do you know that we are, it is imminent. We have been told by our YouTube guru, our in-house YouTube guru, that we are very close to hitting 50,000 subscribers. Well, yeah, we're recording a bit of a 50,000, 50,000 subscriber special today later.

Oh, are we that close? In anticipation. Yeah, we're very close. Oh, we're going to jinx it by doing that? Well, now I might have jinxed. I'm sorry if I did. Okay, so I'm just looking down at the questions. How are we go?

How about from Danny? Can we do this one, which is, can you talk about the way you might approach how Mulgrew or Cedar play all those great, really low moving inner voices on the piano intro, super thick, awesome stuff here? um so this is an area

that Adam Manus is known to be an expert so I'm going to throw it over to him I actually don't exactly know what Danny's talking about I would have to listen you know this kind of like

counter melody kind of oh the counter yeah like doing like I was just practicing this actually oh more more yeah maybe even more in the bass okay

I was thinking inner voice. Well, you can grab it with either hand. So, man, one thing I love to practice, Danny, with these inner voice things, and this works for anything. And this is another Keezer idea, I steal so much from Jeffrey Keezer. Thank you, Jeffrey Keeser. Thank you, Jeffrey. Is, uh, we love you, Jeffrey. I love you, Jeffrey. Well, he's just so smart. Um, is pick your, pick your interval, right? Pick your note. So let's say it's the seventh, right? So, again, if we go to all the things, like, whenever, whatever, finger is on the seventh, move around that seventh, create a little melody out of it. You can choose

an interval at random. It could be the fifth. Just start there and see what happens. But practice in your left hand, in your right hand, that kind of thing. What you're doing is just predetermining where you start. So it doesn't matter what hand, what finger you start on. You get all of those. You're going to switch between hands doing it. It's going to be a great way, especially Roboto. It's so easy to just do it slow. And you can really, you can work up some cool sounding stuff. I hope that's what he's talking about. I think so.

No, that's great. And just a different kind of mentality and sound approach to melodic stuff in the different ranges on the instrument, certainly bass, tenor is important. And I just need to mention here, big shout out to Joe. I'm sorry, I read this wrong earlier. He did his virtual half marathon on Friday. So we're jumping back to our health and wellness segment. So congrats, Joe.

I was thinking you were doing it. weekend with me for moral support, but apparently you are done. So I feel invigorated and emboldened by Joe's success down in, of course, he probably had like perfect 60 degree weather or something in Houston. But it's all good. We'll see what happens here. All right. Let's see.

Next question. Tour talk kind of up top. Tour talk kind of up top. Maybe up top near Rich's questions said coming from the guitar world, our pedi user talked about all the time for practice and etc but in piano world i don't hear people talk about arpeggios much why well i don't know we talk about arpeggios i actually think arpeggios that's why we don't talk about damn hard what is that shit man but actually practicing arpeggios is the again you want a shortcut to if you want a shortcut for keyboard awareness for where you are for being able to cover large

listen to this guy. Cover large swaths of the instrument. It's the easiest way to do it. I actually start sometimes a practice session like octaves, like really, and then fifth. No, that wasn't fifth. And then fourths.

And then thirds. Yep. And then minor thirds. And then scales. You know, like you can start wide and then come in and in and then, I think. Yeah. And, you know, we do talk sometimes

about maybe it's been a while but I think the concept of especially for specific applications for jazz improvisation at the piano the concept of the jazz arpeggio that I like to say we came up with that I'm pretty sure we didn't but why not so it's almost like a yeah that's your joints man that's your joints well me because it's like something that actually occurs a lot right that's in its most basic form but you've always got the same kinds of like you know C7 flat nine I think it's interesting because so much... Get rid of that there. So we got like...

So much that we actually play is based upon that improv is those arpeggios. So if you've got the basic concept, say for F minor of that, and then even up to the 11, maybe even the 13, you've got all these jazz arpeggios being the foundational thing being four note shapes. So traditional arpeggios there,

but we can break it up into any fours. So from a tech. standpoint, we start to align ourselves with those shapes that we're going to use. We're going to actually use once we get into those improvising situations. Mm. Bam. Mm. Nice.

Don't know what that is.