You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - Peter's Six Segments of Practice

Episode Date: February 25, 2021

It's one of Peter and Adam's favorite things to talk about on the show, and today, we dive into what a typical Peter Martin practice session is like.Links from this episode:Step up your practice session game with a practice journal - like this one from Open Studio.Interested in more music advice? Go here to browse our catalog of jazz lessons and courses available for purchase. And be sure to check out our All Access Pass - every course from Open Studio on every instrument.Let us know what you think by leaving a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review, or head over to our YouTube channel.Follow us on Facebook | Twitter | Instagram See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

It's easy to sum it up when you just talk about practice. We're sitting in here, I'm supposed to be the franchise player, and we're in here talking about practice. I mean, listen, we're talking about practice. Not a game, not a game, not a game, we're talking about practice. Not a game. Not the game that I go out there and die for and play every game like it's my last. Not the game. We're talking about practice, man.

Hey Adam, yeah, guess what we're talking about today? Flurries? No. I'm Adam Anus. And I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to the You'll Hearer podcast. Daily music advice, coming at you. Coming at you.

Today we're sponsored by Open Studio. Go to Open Studiojadogadogas.com for all your jazz lesson needs. Peter, what are we talking about today? I have a guess. We are talking about practice. You don't say. And look, we talk about this a lot on here. But I had to bring in.

the expert, the OG, none other than Mr. Alan Iverson for that introduction. It's one of the greatest moments in basketball history. Yeah. And maybe sports and maybe ESPN's history probably. We're talking about practice. The practice rant. It's amazing. I mean, how are we going to talk about practice without bringing in Alan Iverson to actually talk about practicing?

And then we're going to talk about practicing. Yeah. You know what's funny, though, is when he's talking about practice, what he's really in a musician's perspective, that's rehearsal. I know. Because he practiced a lot. He just was like, I don't need to go to rehearsal. Well, maybe rehearsals like the pregame warm up or something. Yeah.

I don't know. Is the gig, the game? That's for sure, right? For sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No. So today we are really excited because we realize that this is our first. Look, look, we're always excited to be here on the pod with you.

Well, some days more than us. Yeah, right. But we've been getting, you know, a lot of wonderful feedback from folks about our new long format. Have you been getting feedback in that same way out? Yeah. And you know what, just my own feedback from it. I love the new long format. I just like that there's not a time crunch.

We always had tried to keep when we were doing it daily, tried to keep them nice and short and tight, which is cool. But I listen to long format podcast. So for me, and I'm extremely long-winded. As are you, buddy. No offense. Takes one to no one. I know, exactly.

So, no, you know what this feels like to me? You know what? The one thing that we've gotten to spend so much great time together and built so many cool things during. this weird pandemic time and had so many, you know, great conversations. But this long format, it feels like more like, remember we used to go, there was something,

I don't know if you're going to remember this, but there was something called Happy Hour. This was long, long ages ago. Happy Hour was the thing where people would meet in person. What? I know. And sit. Well, with plexiglass between them like this.

What? I know. At a bar, like right next to each other. That doesn't sound happy at all. No, it sounds frightening. But no masks. And you would order a bunch of food and drinks and you would chat and laugh and gossip until about 7 p.m. And then you go home and you have dinner with your family.

And act hungry. Yeah, exactly. But we used to have epic happy hours. And these longer format podcasts has felt more like, you know, happy hours, but without the, with coffee instead of the coffee. That's right, right. Well, it's funny you say that because on a, of course, I remember what happy hours, but I did kind of forget. It's funny when you get into a new routine. Yeah.

And this is going to be great to talk about because I'm a big proponent of routine-based practice. So we're going to get into this today. But any kind of routine or habit, and look, a routine and a habit, they're linked. And the more we realize how they're linked and particular to each of us individually, the more we understand and have self-awareness about how we link those things, I think the more productive our practice can be. That's right. But once you get out of that routine, they kind of.

becomes this, you know, happy hour, getting on airplanes. That's become like, I mean, many planes as I've been, because I've been around the world. But I mean, it's just like, it's just, you still remember what that is, but it's not a part of your ongoing routine. So you're out of that habit. Yeah, yeah. Well, hopefully we can talk about those things and how to develop those habits into routines today. I'm seeing your sheet here about the how, what and where, when, sorry, when to practice. Well, where, yeah, we could have put where it. I didn't want to overwhelm So how are you going to structure this episode, though? That's what I'm curious.

Like, are we going to get a sneak peek into what your actual practice routine is like? Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, what it is is I've got these, you know, six general segments of practice. And I'll just kind of throw them out there now and we'll go into depth into some of them. Technique. Yeah. Repetoir.

Yeah. Transcription. Uh-huh. Ear training. Yeah. Classical. Interesting. And practice performing.

Now, are these some things, okay, well, you're probably going to get all into this, but is this something that you're advocating that you do every session or, you know, once a week or how do you structure this? Well, I would say, no, not necessarily every day that you practice. So I believe that we should try to practice and, in fact, given whatever your current circumstances allows to practice every day is. very important. It's almost more important than hitting all these segments like six days a week. For sure. I totally agree. So let me ask you a question though. Before we get in your list, which I want to. So when you're prepping for shelter in place, let's say it's Tuesday. Yes. You've got some days coming up, right? And so maybe you don't know what your set list is going to be. You probably don't know what your set list is going to be on Tuesday, I'm guessing.

Right. What is that first practice routine when you got a new shelter in place coming up? What does that look like for you? Like structure-wise. How many of these are you hitting? Um, so for these, I'm hitting most of them except for on a daily practice transcription, um, ear training and classical. So half of them. So you're really focusing on some technical work, some repertoire work and some performance work. Exactly. Yeah. Now, ear training, that's the one kind of, I would say, wild card in a way because that I think can and is intertwined potentially with everything that you're

practice, even technical practice. So I'm going to push back, though, because I've seen you put, so I think you're, I think you're, you're being too narrow with both transcription and ear training. I've watched you prep some of these shelter in places, and I know that you transcribe the melodies from the records that you're going to play. Yes. So that is part of your routine. And I think that's important for people to know, though, that it's not like you're,

you're heading to the real book to look up the Stevie Wonder tune. Like, no, you're putting on the record and you're learning the tune. You probably already know it, but you're refreshing yourself with some of the inner workings of it. Right. Yeah. No, I just meant, but then not necessarily on an everyday basis. Oh, I got you.

Yeah. So, yeah, no, all these things I hit. And in an ideal situation, I guess you could say you'd hit them all in some form every day. Actually, I think so. The reality is depending upon, like, that's if you're playing piano or any instrument purely out of a love for the instrument with no professional requirements or job. Basically, if you're just a billionaire that loves to practice the piano. You could hit all these. And like you have somebody that serves you food

and you don't have to worry about anything else. Right. But most musicians have some kind of specific thing they have to practice for at all times. Yeah, exactly. So, but I think that these are areas that it's very much aspirational. But also, like, we want to have a certain amount of flexibility

built into our routines so that if there's a day when one of these areas, you're really able to make a whole lot of progress because of like either kind of a flow state or you just really hit on a concept that you're inspired about and you've got that intersection between your passion and the efficiency with which you're practicing, then you're better off just like kind of letting that dominate your practice,

I would say, than feeling like, oh, I have to stop this segment because I've got to get to my classical practice. So can I speak on this a little bit? Because I've been thinking about this a lot, exactly what you just said about how to find that flow state. Yeah. How to practice to find that flow state in your performance. and there are a couple of questions

that I think when we take these things you have on your list, technique, repertoire, transcription, ear training, classical and performing, you know, people might be asking like, well, what do I practice, though? How do I structure my practice? And I think there's a big disconnect. The pros that I know that are really, really great,

like yourself included, have a, I think an innate ability to listen to themselves, to like turn inward and to say like, what do I need right? now? What do I need to work on right now? How do I want to feel when I perform? Like, do I want to feel secure in the changes? Do I want to feel confident technically so I can be spontaneous? Do I want to feel, you know, playful and energetic? Because you could structure your practice routine

to focus on any of those things. You know what I mean? But I think you probably don't think about it like that, like consciously, but I do think that that's part of it. Because when you said, you know, I'm practicing for shelter in place, I'll hit like technique, repertoire. and performing, to me that's saying, like, I'm hitting technique because I need to feel sure-handed and, like, not have to worry about missing things or not having that going, right? And I'm hitting repertoire because you want to give a great performance, a varied weekly performance, right? And then you're practicing performing, obviously, because it's all you, and you have to give a great performance. So, like, to me, that is, you've crafted that specific

that specific session based on the needs of how you're performing. So I've been thinking about this a lot because sometimes I get into this habit and I know other people are in this boat where I'll spend my time practicing something that I think I should be practicing. And at the end of the session, I feel like crap. Like I just feel like, I don't, I'm not inspired by this. It was what I should be doing, but I'm not doing it. So I just want to put it out there that like ask yourself, what do I need right now?

Yes. That's like a great thing that you can practice doing. in your sessions before you even start. Yeah, that's so well said. And I think that that will lead to the kind of practice that can be very beneficial and you don't have to think about a lot. Like you can get to that point where it's sort of, it's almost like, you know, like if we can go back to this to our kind of caveman, cavewoman,

Neanderthal state where like we crave a food that's going to heal some ailment that we have, You know, like I saw my dog yesterday. One of them was like sniffing around trying to eat some of our house plants. I was like, the little one, the really little. I was like, what is going on with that? And Kelly told me, she's like, oh, dogs do that when their stomach's upset. I was like,

they want to eat something green. Like, they have that instinct to do that. Did you ever heard that? I have heard that. It's weird, man. It is weird. So, well, it's also like, remember when certain kids would eat this is probably before your time. This is old school. Certain kids, like, they would ask you at school, when's the last time you ate

dirt because if you had like a ironed it it was it iron or something that you could get from you crave dirt you crave and if you're a little kid you're out playing it's not like now everybody's inside you would start eating dirt but I think that for practicing we can get to the point where we crave to practice the things that both feel good and are best for our development and it can become kind of unconscious like that's what I was referred to at the beginning in terms of routine and habit yeah if you get in the habit of doing the things that make you better and that's like the ultimate feeling good is getting better, right?

Right. Now, at the beginning, it doesn't feel good because you're not getting better and it's hard. And nobody wants to do that. I mean, it's like if you take on a new form of exercise or something,

you have to project yourself six months down the road and you're lifting that weight and it's easy because you're strong. At the beginning, you're weak, your hands don't have the cal, you know, like nothing is prepared. So you have to be very conscious about it

and you're like, and not only you're not getting stronger, you're getting weaker. You feel sore. and you've got to go backwards to go forwards, right? Yeah. So I think practice is very much the same way that you can develop these skills and ways of practicing,

routines of practicing, that can almost become like, as long as you stick to it, and that's why I think the every day is so important, you know? Like, that's the goal. You know why? Because you can't do more than once, I mean, you can do more than once a day. You can't do better than every day. Every day is every day.

I practice eight days a week. So let me just give you an example of how this could work, and then I'll let you, off the hook with your list here. Sorry, man. I'm hijacking it. I was, I said it already. It's so weird because I was, I've been thinking about these very same things all weekend. Yeah. So, uh, so I had these live stream concerts coming up this week, right? And I was preparing for it.

And this happened to me where I was going through one of the tunes, a monk tune and I was just kind of playing through the motions. And has anybody else been there where it's like, you're, you're, you're practicing this stuff and you're just playing this tune and the key you've always played it in. And you're playing the same stuff. You always played over it. And it just comes like, it rambles on. and on and on. I'm just like feel so defeated afterwards. I was like, this is not how I want to feel when I play. And so what I turn to, which is a tool I've used before, is I think to myself, all right, tonight when I play this gig, how do I want to feel when I'm playing? How is it that I want to feel? And I realize, like, what I really want to feel is free and comfortable in these changes. Like, I don't, I want to, like, lean on my knowledge of these. I just, I wanted to know

this tunes inside and out. So I literally started doing like broken seventh chords all over the changes, triads, working, like scale running things, but really getting in the inside, different shapes over the changes, different voicings over the changes, really just absorbing what are my, what are my color palette choices over these changes? Because I wanted to feel the security of the form, you know, and then playing the melody over and over again, really understanding where the melody was. It was evidence was a tune. So melody is so important. to being able to play, improvise over the tune, right?

And by the end of the practice session, I'd like stopped what I was doing, which was the rambling, just performing, but rambling, you know, it wasn't like I was really performing. You know what I mean?

There was no structure to it. And really just honed in on what it is I wanted to feel and practiced that one thing. And I felt great. That's, that's such a great, you know, narrative and can really be a goal for everybody

in terms of, like, their practice. very much sort of outcome-based, and actually we're joking about Alan Iverson at the beginning. But if you understand the context that that whole controversy came up, this is something that I think that Iverson really understood about. Totally. Like, because basically what he was pushing back, and this got so misunderstood over the years.

People forget about how good he was, actually. Exactly. Like, you don't get to that point without, you know, extreme practice. But it became this thing of like, oh, he thinks he's so good he doesn't have to practice. But that's not what that was about at all. It was that these reporters and that structure was so much into, like, the window dressing around practice. It was like you had to be, because he showed up late or something.

I can't remember what happened. But it was all about like, you're getting fine for this. And he was like, I don't care. Like he was obsessed with doing what he had to do and what his team had to do to get into that same state that you're talking about. So then when he gets to the game, it's game on. You know what I'm saying? It's time to just have fun. And everybody else, you know, the people that weren't on the court were kind of obsessed with this.

Like, you have to fit into these boxes or whatever. And ultimately, we only. know ourselves, but this is part of like this self-discovery thing and self-awareness. It's so important, isn't it? So important. I mean, we could tell you what to practice all day, and we actually do. We've created a whole organization based upon that. But there's no one better to tell you what you should be working on than you.

You just, I think, man, I've really noticed masters like yourself, Peter, you're so good at understanding this is what I need right now. And I need to just go here, whether or not someone thinks I should or shouldn't. I know what I need right now. And we all, I think, could take a cue from that. Maybe everybody who's listening to this, start your next practice session out by saying, like, what do I need right now? And then work on that. Well, no, I think, but thank you, Adam.

But I also think that you're very good at this as well. And, you know, it's really like a, it's an opportunity to kind of think about how we work. Because practice is work. And a lot of times, you know, that can have a negative connotation. Like, oh, I've got to go to work. But think about, like, if you. I don't know, work at Disneyland. Is that fun?

I guess that's fun. I got to go to work. You're happy because it's the world's happiest place. I don't know. It might be, I feel like there's probably some, there's some documentaries about how it's really like awful, but I don't know.

I forget. Right. But I mean, anyway, a lot of people, like when you're going to do something that, yes, is work,

but okay, so basically you're going to be paid, or not even paid, that's different. That's professional or not. But you're going to work on something, to spend your time with some level of intensity with trying to get something accomplished.

But now we're doing this within music, which has an innate sense of joy and optimism and beauty. I mean, people are gravitated towards music, even if it's not work. I mean, this is recreation, actually. So like Alan Arverson going to play basketball and stuff, yeah, he's getting paid a lot of money to do this or whatever, maybe, maybe not. But regardless, you're still working at getting better at a game. That's right.

And so we're working at getting better at. doing something that is as playful and as joyous as a game. But you know what? You will have better dividends if you are able to not just stick with it and just pound it in. Like, you know, we're going to give you all these, you know, this list here of technique we might not. We might not. I like the, I like what we're talking about better now.

No, no, no. What we have, they both work hand in hand. But like, for instance, there might be a day where you're like, okay, I really, I'm feeling, like I can feel. If I think, like, what do I need today? I can feel like I'm strong. and I want to work that muscle, right? So maybe I was going to do ear training,

but maybe I'll just do technique today because I'm really feeling it. Like there's no reason to force yourself into a box when you're actually, if you investigate what you're feeling at the time, if it's calling you to something, do it. Or maybe it's like, man, I kind of feel like slow today. Yeah.

I feel a little like tired. Maybe I'll just work on my ears and the physical part of it is not for me right now. That's totally cool. In fact, you'll get some good practice out of that. Yeah. But I think I've just noticed, man, all you top-level cats, you're so good at understanding your own personalities and your own selves. And actually, man, it goes even deeper because it's what happens in the performance as well.

You're training that muscle of understanding where you are on a given night, you know. And so your performance gets better because you realize like, this is where the music wants to go. This is where my spirit is taking me. So it could change with how you're feeling. But you'll never know that if you're like, but I should be doing this. You don't want to get into that in your practice or your performance. That's right.

That's right. Because practice, what you practice is ultimately what you're going to perform, at least some manifestation of it. Because it varies for everybody. But throughout your life, career, professional, amateur, it doesn't really matter. You're likely going to be spending a lot more time. practicing than you are performing.

So like the ratio might be 10 to 1. It might be 100 to 1. For some that barely ever perform, it might be 1,000 to 1. And then if you're playing a lot, sometimes the ratio can get a little bit different. But on aggregate, you're going to spend more time practicing. So that's where your habits are really built. And I think that, you know, what you just alluded to, I would say it's almost like it's the service mentality. Like try to put on the hat that Chick Korea had on.

He always, he was a servant. He was like a public servant. I think honestly, what I've been thinking about this is from chick. Because I've been watching so much a chick and it seems like where he's going with this. Yeah. You can feel it in this music. You can hear it in his words. I don't know that he ever overtly said it like this, but it's like he had so much self-awareness.

Totally. But he was so selfless the way he played his music. Yeah. Now, he was not meek. He was very confident from a very young age. You can hear it in his music. You can hear it with what he said. Totally.

but he was always in service of the music. In fact, I think that his confidence and his ability to play at a high level and to assert himself as needed in an appropriate way is the most selfless thing that you can do. I mean, he happened to have a lot to say, and so he said it. It's your anti-service, if you're like, oh, no, I should just let me not insert myself too much. No, I mean, you're chiquered, you got that, you know, get it out there. But it was always about the overall musical sphere. If he's playing a, I mean, think about the difficult situation.

agency play, duo with Herbie Hancock, you know, the electric band, the wonderful tree, I mean, not difficult, these are wonderful situations, but varied for sure. But sometimes that kind of self-awareness, and what we're really talking about there is a lot of vulnerability. Yeah. It takes a lot of courage, actually, sometimes to, to, in your performance, or what we're talking about today, in your practice routine, it takes a ton of courage to say, like, I'm not going to practice my technique as fast and hard as I can. today because I'm not feeling it and I'm feeling like I need to just spend some time with a tune and learning this tune in a very easy in a way that might not feel like I'm making gains bro

you know not like that but it feels maybe more natural to where you are so I think you know for all of us you know the most important thing here before we get into these these sort of the the categories you have which are so important but is to ask yourself what do you need from these today, right now? What do you feel you need? And don't try to force yourself into a box that your body and your spirit are not wanting to go in today. That sounds kind of hokey, but I think it's important. It's very important, very important.

Okay, cool. So having said that, these are the segments that I mentioned at the beginning. And maybe we can just go through a one by one in no particular order outside of possibly the first and the last. I do as a personal preference like to kind of use them to bookend many of my practice sessions. Not necessarily all, but. So first would be technique. And often I and many musicians of all different instruments will start there. It's not mandatory again.

You kind of listen to yourself. But some kind of specific technical practice that can, because it can kind of serve as a warm up physically and mentally. Certain instruments, This is more important than others, but it's important for all instruments. You know, I mean, there's certain instruments that if you don't practice your technique in the correct, you know, layering and warming up, you can like bust your lip and different things of trumpet or whatever. Yeah. Piano, maybe not. Although, you know, you can certainly could do some damage, I guess, if you just tried to start ripping into some crazy technical stuff.

But a little bit of a warm-up, but to me it's more of a mental warm-up because typically a lot of the technical stuff will practice doesn't require as much active engagement and kind of, you know, ear training repertoire. that kind of stuff where we want to be engaged in a little bit of a different way. You know what I think the most important thing about daily technique, at least touching daily technique a little bit as part of your warm up. That's what I like to do. Even if I'm not going to go like a full on technical session, I usually include some kind of, you know, chromatic scale or arpeggios in my technical warmup. Look at that.

That's cocky right there. He just ripped those off. Just rip that off. It's pretty dirty. But, oh, a little show pan for you. No, but what's important to me, man, is I notice if I don't do that, this instrument, while it's not like the trumpet where it's like you have to keep your muscles in a certain space, there's spatial awareness that's involved here. So if I have to look at where I'm going to play, I'm in a bad spot. I'm in a bad spot. You've got to be able to have that awareness and that recognition of where you are on the keyboard.

And that takes a consistent, you know, touching the sitting at your instrument. That's right. You have to be aware of where everything is. To me, I know that seems kind of trivial, but I think it's like the most important. important part. Well, that's kind of, you know, technique, I think technique 2.0 in a lot of ways, because technique 1.0, or the first level, we would say, would be things like, you know, agility, speed, velocity, sound and those things that are all like kind of the basic elements of technique that we put together. Yeah. Which is important. Yeah. But this, this is definitely

next level, particular to the instrument, like piano, spatial awareness, being able to, what is that called when you're looking the peripheral. Peripherial vision is such an important part I think about developing your technique, but you're not normally thinking, oh, we have to develop our eye technique. So it's, it's, but these are the kinds of things that every instrument is, I mean, like for the trumpet, peripheral vision is probably not important. Or the saxophone, you know, but for like the drums and the bass and the piano, I think it, that, that, that touching of your instrument every day, that being in the space of your instrument and kind of always being familiar. That's the most...

ABF. Always be familiar. That could be a number of interesting things. But that's the first thing I notice. It's not that I'm like, oh, like, I can't play fast. That's not what I noticed first. Actually, the muscles are still there. Can you do that voice again?

I can't play fast. When I'm not practicing techniques. Deploy! Deploy! No, it's more that it's just like, where the hell is everything on this thing? You know what I mean? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, it's the comfort level, but that can definitely develop into like those specific areas that really come back to enhance and it's really just getting in habits again and repetition sets and wraps that kind of stuff and that's sort of what technique that the sort of unifying um concept i would say is that technical your your technique portion of your practice can be your sets and reps in terms of how you organize it totally even if you're practicing an actual piece that is an atude or something that has a lot of musical content it still has

be done in some way that's going to be a little bit more systematic for sure that you can build up a certain technical skill yeah the good news with those technical skills is it really is just like push-ups it's just like if you if you develop a little program and just a slight amount of discipline yeah all of those things can be solved yeah and just like you know any kind of warm-up routine it's something that you at least have part of it that's just automatic you do it you get up and you floss and brush your teeth you're going to be good you know those kind of things totally um okay next we have repertoire. And this is where we really get out of the order. This I would be very free about jumping around kind of based upon how you best work. But repertoire is really about like kind of

having a sort of specific goal. Like if your technical practice is about improving and then maintaining and then maybe even still improving expanding your technique, but certainly maintaining and expanding. Repetoir is the same thing like the goal being, I mean similar, the goal being that you have an expansive and complete complete and never is totally complete but a a well-intentioned you know fully functioning full repertoire yeah for the genres say if we're in jazz that you understand and know intimately a core set of tunes from each of the different areas maybe b bop ballads standards modern jazz standards new tunes blues you know so each of these areas that you're very disciplined, but it's more like overarching.

It's not like, okay, today I'm going to practice all 100 tunes that I know. No, no, no, no. That's not possible. Yeah. But this would be more of your like six-month plan, three-month plan, one year. How many tunes do you want to know by the end of 2021? Yeah. And so I think like journaling, I know that you're an excellent journaler.

Totally. Practitioner of the Bujo concept. I'm a big believer in the journaling. That's right. But I think having a list. The practice journaling, TM, Open Studio. That's right. So there's a place in there we can put a list of tunes, right?

I mean, that could go in any notebook, technically. Absolutely. But I think it's important to have. No, in our custom open studio practice journal available now at the open studio, jazz.com shop. There is a, you can keep a list of the tunes that you're practicing and the keys of the tunes you're practicing. So you can hit, you know, make sure to hit those other keys.

Because I think it's important. Can I just, and can I say for the repertoire thing? Yeah. It's not about, it doesn't have to be about like, oh, moving to New York in 1987 and I got to know. Wait, if you got the New York accent already, why you move it? that buddy that was a dusty new york accent too no uh i'm going to study with richie boy right at the downtown jams issue that's right and uh i got to know well i got on know 350 standards uh but it's not about that

actually it's about what our what our friend gregory hutchinson master drummer gregory hutchton would say i'd like to order a mcflurry is that what he said it's about vocabulary yeah it is about vocabulary so even if you're in so maybe straight ahead jazz isn't your thing but what if you're to fusion. Like learning the canon, right, the repertoire of your given genre, maybe that's Bebop. You know, maybe that's cool jazz, whatever. Maybe you get real specific. What's cool jazz? I have no idea. Some people talk about. Maybe it's folk music or pop music or whatever it is you're

specifically into R&B. Like learning those canon pieces, learning the repertoire, that's not about just understanding, you know, what everybody's playing. It is that. So you can go play with people. But it's also about learning. learning the vocabulary of the music. Like there's so much in there that's not just like going through the real book, whatever. You've got to listen to the tunes. You've got to learn the counter melodies. You've got to learn the verses.

You've got to learn all of it. Yeah. Absolutely. And so that, actually I have kind of note on this is to learn, like, kind of have the mindset. And look, this is two things here. I don't want anyone to be like, okay, this is the way Peter and Adam are saying you have to practice. I'd rather you, and hopefully this will be profitable for your guys practice to enhance your routine. is to think about this as a framework.

So we've got these six areas. And I'd be interested to see if I missed some because I probably did. But you have a framework to choose from. And then you have kind of a mindset for each one of these. And so for the mindset that I think for repertoire that can kind of be just your overall

goal day by day with this is that you're not trying to learn as many tunes or as many licks or as many as much repertoire at any time. You're trying to learn it at a pace that you learn it very deeply. So we're looking at going like an inch wide and a mile deep as opposed to the other way.

About vocabulary. This isn't something you're doing just so you can go to the jam session and impress people that you know all the tunes. Right, right, exactly. This is something that you understand the vocabulary of the music. And for our mindset, for all this stuff, we always want to find things that help us

alleviate some of the stress that this can bring on. It's like, oh my God, I thought I knew out of practice. Now Peter and Adam's, I got to have a mindset and a six-part framework and all that. No. Okay, so the repertoire section, we're giving you license to not have to learn all these tunes and all these different areas. Go slower.

It's actually going to benefit you more. You're going to learn deeper. Totally. And if you learn more of this stuff, say, with the recording, it might take you seven days to learn a tune directly from the recording as opposed to the same amount of time practicing, say 15 minutes a day on it. Like you can learn it, kind of learn it in one day from like the real book or whatever. Don't do that.

Don't do that. Use the recording. Use the recording because you're going to, yeah, it takes longer and it's harder, but you're going to be getting that ear training. So you've just checked off a whole other box on here at the same time. And you're going to be learning that tune in such a deeper way that it's going to stay with you longer. So you're not going to have to spend as much time coming back to review it.

It'll pull out the charts or whatever. So I know we're now straddling the line here between the repertoire section and the transcription section. And I just want to add something here that kind of talks about both of these. So about halfway through the pandemic at Open Studio, I started a live Zoom class called the Monday Transcribing Club. Yes. And we started off by doing, by transcribing some solos.

And I would give them a section of a solo like eight bars or something to transcribe. And a lot of people would notate it out. They would write it out. Yeah. You know, or I'd give them a head and they would write it out. And they would come back and I'd say, okay, well, can we play that? And they'd be like, no, let's just share the screen of the notation, which was cool. And it was great.

But this last month or so, actually two months because we started with a max. Roach solo, but now we've been doing a Thelonious Monk solo on Blue Monk and his head of it. I said, there's no writing allowed. You just have to learn this by listening to the record over and over again and playing along with Thelonious Monk. Adam dropped the hammer. And they sound, we did it today, actually, because we record these on Mondays for those on the loop here.

But they sound so good. Yeah. How good do they sound? Like 80% better, I would say the group is like the understanding. And it's like they feel like monk. they get the dynamics and all the little things that are going on. And instead of just like, where does the rhythm go on here? You know, it's like, that doesn't matter.

Like, that's fine to do and that's a whole other thing. But I think that using your ears to learn repertoire and to transcribe, which I know we're hitting next is, man, it's so, so important. It is. And it can be freeing as much as like, you know, jumping off a cliff can be terrifying due to death possibly happening. Yeah. But there might be a net there.

Or you might just kind of levitate. Who knows, this is not going to be as deadly as that. But what you'll see is, you know, take that plunge at least some of the time. And none of this has to be all or nothing. Well, yeah. And to your point here of learn at your own pace, the thing I've been stressing about this is that you don't have to transcribe John Coltrane's whole catalog in one week. What if we just did four bars of this monk cello at a time in a week? And you just did five minutes, 10 minutes, 15 minutes a day, you know, where you're just playing it over and over getting the four bars.

And it can be actually, you know, depending on the pacing and how you go about it, it can actually be better to do it like that. For sure. Because you're learning it. Now, there are some people just kind of, you know, savant musicians that develop to the point where they can learn, you know, all of John Coltrane solo. But like a huge amount of information and absorb it. You just know there's someone in Western Europe that knows every Coltrane solo that's ever been. That was very Eurocentric of you to say. No, just you know what I'm talking about.

Right. But I think that, you know, really for all of us, even if you can do that, like you still don't want to do that all the time, information overload. But the idea of like less is more sometimes, especially in terms of ear training because it gives your ears longer to marinate on a particular concept. Because like once you learn intervals or a phrase, which is just a combination of intervals, you know, with a certain harmonic and rhythmic pattern that it uses, you know, you know, So we don't learn it and then just move on. We can. But if we learn it, play it, listen to it, let sleep on it, come back and do it again. Kind of almost feels like I already know that.

Why am I still doing that? It's like studying poetry. Like you don't just memorize and then move on. No, then you say it again and then you really live with it. You live with it for a while. So the four bars a day or the phrase a day of the mungsel over a week can be some of the most profitable practice you can do repertoire, transcription, and ear training all intertwined. It's so good, man. So next up is transcription

Oh, we already talked about that Next up is ear training I already talked about that Well, okay, so these are just areas that You know, look, transcription Is something that I actually don't do a lot of In terms of solos anymore Not because I don't think I could learn from it

But it's kind of that You get to know yourself and how much do you need of that Like the ear training could certainly be helpful But I'm doing that in other areas So it's like the things The actual not repertoire of tunes but of ideas, I almost feel like I'm on personal overload with the ideas I want to get out anyway. That's a point everybody hits.

Yeah. For sure. Yeah. And sometimes you'll go into that and come out of it too. So I'm always, you know, you always want to have that self-awareness. There might be a time when I'm like, man, I need that inspiration. That's that same thing. That's like the dog going to eat the green because you feel like there's something missing.

So you want to get those nutrients. Again, listen to yourself when you feel that way. You know what is for me? Number one, listen? No, listen to yourself. Right. No, but you know what it is for me, man? It's when I either I'm out hearing live music.

which RIP live music, no, or I hear a record and I hear something or someone play something and I'm like, what is that? What is, what just happened? You know what I mean? Because you feel like we're old A.F. And so you feel like, you've heard it all. But at a certain point, you're just like, wait, what just happened? I got to know what that is. Yes. And if you, so if you feel that way. Well, curiosity killed a cat. Well, but it made the musician a lot better. No, but if you feel like that, what is that? That might be a signal from yourself to yourself saying, like, I should probably transcribe a little bit of that. Yeah, and that's great because you'll get the repertoire by transcribe.

Like, you'll get that. What is that? Then you'll have that. But you'll get the ear training. And the next time you hear that, even in a different situation, you'll be able to identify it. I always think of like ear training. There's many different levels, but it's at its most basic level in terms of what it is. Because it's such a misunderstood thing.

A lot of people think ear training is like perfect pitch. Oh, I don't have perfect pitch. bad ear training. No, it's not. No. I really think it's just, it's really just musical, um,

pattern recognition. Totally. You know, at its most basic level. It's like, it's like, it's like, everybody knows some math.

It might, like, your limit might be one plus one equals two. And like, that's all you ever know. But most people even know a little more than that. A master mathematician can, can identify so many different kinds of patterns like that and quickly and,

you know, intuitively or whatever. But I think ear training is very similar in terms of, on its own, it doesn't do anything. So a mathematician that can identify a bunch of, you know, equations and solutions doesn't mean they're going to create a new one or something. And that's the element we knew with music. But ear training becomes this building block that we base, especially as jazz musicians,

being improvising so much, you know, I always think about, because I was sort of classically trained, I was definitely jazz trained as well, but I've always compared the two and it's like, I don't know if this is fair or not, but I think that the more ear training you have, for any style of music the better. But jazz, like, you really got to know it. You got to know it. You know, it's kind of like, you know, every basketball player should have really good handles.

You know what handles, all right? Do you guys call them handles and Jeffco? Sure. Yeah, handles. You know, really good dribbling skills. But if you're the point guard, you have to have it because you're going to be doing a lot of dribbling and you're going to be, you know,

so you have to be a master at that. So it's kind of like a jazz musician. We're supposed to have better ears than a classical musician. Now, I know some classical musicians that have ears on the level of a top jazz music. That's great and that helps. Yeah. But we have, like, that's just a job requirement.

It is. It's part of the job. For a classical musician, being snooty and looking down on everyone, it's part of their job. And you know what? For your training, if you're looking to get started, first of all, trans... You didn't hear my joke, man? Say it again. You see how, he totally missed that, man.

I'm trying to go next level with this. I said for a class... Keep that in mind because I can see you have something good coming up. I said, if you're a classical musician, you're required to have a snooty attitude and look down on others. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That is part of the gig. though.

Big shout to Juilliard. They call that discernment. Oh. Now he went next level. No, but you know

what? If you want to get started in your training, real simple thing to do is just test yourself with intervals. Yeah.

And if you don't think that that's important, just think about this. If you can get this interval, right, then you start getting this, and then you start

getting this. And then you can do things like this, right, and get all these intervals. And then you start understanding these

intervals. Yep. These kind of intervals. and how they relate to each other and eventually you're able to pick all of that out. But it starts with this. Yep.

That's so well put. And I would just say what, you know, pretty much everything you just played, I was kind of trying to go through and be like, okay, the level you test yourself at, it continues from just the basic intervals to, like, as you're playing those, like I can imagine not only most of what the notes are,

but certainly what all those chords are. And I'm sure you could go to some other stuff that I'd start to get lost on. So there's always more to learn. But it's that same thing like what you say. If you're like, who, what is that? Yeah. Like ear training is just an accumulation of knowledge to the point where there's almost nothing you ever hear that you're like, what is that?

It doesn't mean you don't have the wonderment. It's just that you kind of can identify at least 80% of anything is being played. That's when you've really developed your ears. Not when you get perfect pit. Now perfect pitch helps you in a lot of other ways as well. But this is the kind that's just like sets and reps and you get to the point. But it's kind of like, you know, Alan Ivers. As masterful of a player as he was,

there's some young basketball player could come up to him and show a move, and he might have been like, wow, I never saw that before. You know what I mean? So it's like nobody gets to the point where they know everything. That's right. And it shouldn't be that way.

That's what keeps it fun. So next up you have on your list here, which I find interesting classical. Yes, I just insulted the classical musicians. Now let me talk about it as an expert. Tell me about your discernment then, buddy. Well, I think that classical, look, This is, it's interesting because it feels like among the younger jazz players,

this is being less, not less embraced, but just being less, you have less players coming up with a classical training. Does it feel like that? Like pianos, made a little bit. I don't know. I don't know about that. But I think part of it is a good thing in that, like, jazz has been over the last 20 to 25 years, it's been more, it's given more respect as its own area of study from a younger. age. So, like, you have jazz programs in high school, even younger. You have, you know, you can go to a jazz teacher and just study jazz piano from the beginning. That's true. Whereas before you went to a

piano teacher and you just learned songs, you know. So if they happen to know anything about jazz, you might have lucked out. Yeah. But that was just, you know, you're kind of learning what is a classical foundation. Then if you were interested in jazz, you had to kind of figure it out on your own, which I think actually worked really well because that forced you to have to learn stuff off records and ear training transcription all that kind of stuff but the idea and then we have all these great jazz programs at the school of music level

the collegiate level as it were so you can kind of go through a legitimate respectable education and you never really have to do anything whereas when I came up and maybe it's sort of starting to change with you because you went to new school which was one of the first great jazz programs on its own and there were some like Indiana but I'm trying to remember like because I went to a summer program for classical at Indiana

They had a jazz program way, you know, a wonderful program, Dr. David Baker. And I think you still had to like do an audition on like classical at least. It was. I think it was well into the 90s before you didn't have to have some kind of classical training in your, within your jazz training. The new school certainly didn't have to have that. And yeah, I was like I started when I was a child on classical. Like the first five years I played. But was able to, by the time I was 15, moved just to jazz.

all time. Totally left your discernment to the side. I left my discernment. No, it was kind of for me to come back to, and I weave in and out of it and adding, I've only like, I did one classical performance, classical-ish performance.

Classical. I mean, it was like a Claude Bowling suite or whatever, where everything was written for me. Yeah. But even that, that's what classical is. I know. I thought I was going to have a panic attack,

man. I was so nervous that gig because it's just not what we do. But other than that, I just weave it out in and out of my practice, you know. Well, the reason have it on here and it's interesting you say that because I didn't realize you left it at that

I mean that's not that early even age 15 but I think that you have a very high level of ability to not only fuse the not even just jazz and classical but kind of your musical vision with classical ensembles you've done a lot of great writing for specific

classical groups and so-called classical instruments if that is I love it I mean I love the art form I love orchestral music yeah and of course we have so many friends you know who discerning friends discerning friends and you I mean for you when you came up it was still I mean you went to Juilliard as a classical pianist yeah and so it's changed enough that when I was in Julia there was no jazz and my teacher asked me I heard when I was trying to this is the great

Martin Cannon who was amazing teacher legend for for a long time I kind of caught the tail end of his wonderful teaching but he was so old school he's like I heard you play jazz well you can't study with me if you. I had to lie to him and tell him. Oh, no, no, I don't play jazz. Oh, like he wouldn't take you. Right. Oh my gosh. And he normally didn't take freshman anyway. So that was already, but because I kind of pushed my way in and I, I mean, I basically just was like, I really want to study with you. And he's like, well, you definitely can't do if you're doing that. And so, but the whole thing was, not only was there no jazz there. I wasn't allowed to play jazz officially. And now, this is how much has changed. I believe if you go to the Juilliard Jazz

program, you don't have to audition anything on classical. But that makes sense. And actually, I his point of that as well. Because, I mean, a little bit in that, like, what are you here to do? What do you hear with, like, my time is valuable. He's an expert classical teacher. He's obviously, he doesn't know anything about jazz. But I think he was coming from the standpoint this is going to mess, that old school thing of, like, playing

jazz is going to mess up your technique and mess up your... Well, he's kind of right. That's a little too discern. I mean, if he thinks the ultimate goal is to be able to play, you know, Rachmaninoff, you know what I mean? Concerto's, then, yeah, playing jazz is going to mess up that technique for sure because you don't have enough time

to be able to play the Brahms that you need to be able to play so I get what he's saying but that is very old school that's old school but there's that's because it was in that weird gray area of the 80s 90s where there was like nothing there was no a lot of people were playing jazz but there was no schools for it

right and I mean really you know Wint Marsalis I think did a great service he obviously wasn't the first one I mean Miles went to Juilliard did she not Chicka who somebody else. We were just talking about pianists or something and went to Julia. Anyway, I mean, various classical, there's been many jazz musicians that were classically trained

and especially pianists. I mean, Herbie Hancock, you know, played with the Chicago Symphony, was a prodigy and all this. But, I mean, I think that it's been disproven so many times this disconnect. And so that's why I say practicing classical, this is not required anything. But I think it really, it could be another form of music, just something to get you out of, like, I am a jazz musician, I am transcribing and becoming an air training. robot. Totally. And classical music for piano, it's just great music and it's got, it gives your brain a chance to think in a different way. It gives your ears a chance to hear it a different way.

And I think like, you know, I think about your great composing output. You bring in a lot of different elements and it's not like I'm going to do a folk hybrid or whatever. These are just elements of being a well-rounded. I would never ever talk like that. Yeah. Of being a well-rounded musician and that starts with actually playing some of that on your instrument and not being so narrow-minded. For sure. And you know what's some good, you don't feel like doing like Chopin etudes or whatever, like in some, but you want to maybe get something different besides just like learning head charts or whatever. There are all these great artatum transcriptions. I know you've learned some of them. You can learn them by wrote like you

would learn a Chopinatude. Yeah. And you get kind of the benefits of understanding some early jazz piano vocabulary. Right, right. And site reading I've got kind of in here too or just, you know, that's something we always, we both suffer from this. As a professional musician, it doesn't matter what level you're at, what you've attained or not, there's going to be a time and it's going to be more often. It's not going to be often enough, but it's going to be more often than it should be that you're going to have to read some stuff to stay on a gig. You're going to wish you kept your sight reading chops up when you do that. So like this could be something, if you did five minutes a day of sight reading. And you know, shame on me.

I always say I would do that. I don't always do it. But I've done it for periods of time. And amazingly, my sight reading gets better during that period. Yeah. Then I stop. And for some reason, where does it go? I know.

Everybody always asked me, like, how do you get better at sight reading? It's just like, just do it every day. There's really no other way to do it. And it's not like riding a bike. You do, it's not like, oh, you never forget. Like, once you get to a certain level. Yeah. Because I can tell you, when I was like 17, 18 years old, I distinctly remember I could,

and I couldn't read anything. I'm not like some of these, like, I could read better than any other time of my life. Yeah. Because I was doing it a lot. I was required at the Juilliard, the company these singers, and I had just transposed some of that. We called it Long Hair Music. That's what we call it classical.

Sure. But I don't know why. That's weird. So you know our classical friends here with the orchestra and your parents who are classical music. My parents are some of the most discerning people I know. I know. No, but you know, it's amazing to watch them do that.

Yeah. Because they do it all the time, especially our orchestra friends who are in the thick of it, doing it every day, where they have to literally cite read things like Brahms, you know, Brahms symphonies one day and then like Disney scores the next day. And then our crappy arrangements the next day at a studio session.

You know what I mean? Well, they like our arrangements. That's easy to read at least. Well, they love footballs, don't they? So I would just say, too, for this, what was I thinking of? I don't know. I don't know. What's going on with this?

Yeah, classical. Oh, yeah, so this is also an area that we can check some other boxes in terms of technique. For sure. If you practice the right classical stuff and you mentioned Chopin Aitudes or there's so many great Aitutes. Like you can kind of get into that area where you're practicing some fun music. checking a couple boxes, building up your repertoire, learning about that, but also working on specific technical challenges

that, oh, you might say, oh, I'm not going to need that playing jazz. No, no, no, no. So I actually think that pianists are some of the luckiest people with, like, jazz pianists. We're some of the luckiest people who live. No, in regard to this, because if you play drums, you can definitely learn classical drum technique,

and it's not going to get you, aside from getting a good sound out of an instrument, it's not going to be as useful. It's going to be somewhat useful, but it's not going to be as useful as classical piano technique is for jazz. Same thing with like the saxophone or even I would say the trumpet

as great as it is to be able to have that clear bell, trumpet classical sound. That's not quite as useful. I mean, as some of the techniques that were developed by jazz trumpeters. And I think it's with the piano, it's uniquely and maybe, but even guitar,

it's like it's a whole different animal. You know what I mean? So it's like piano is very unique in that the base because the left hand technique. The left hand technique for the base I think is very useful. And you look at your great, you know, your great bass players,

Ray Brown, Christian McBride just jumped to mind. I know spent a lot of time on, you know, classical technique. But I mean, you're not doing a lot of Boeing, so that's a whole, like, the pizicado, I mean, you know, classical bass players geek out on jazz bass players, incredible pitticado technique.

Yeah. They just don't do it. They just don't do enough. Yeah, that's the pedagogy of Ray Brown, you know. And it's the same thing with jazz drummers. Like you're better off studying, you know, Kenny Clark than you are, you know, a kind of classical technique, I think.

Well, and I mean, the thing is Ray Brown just want to tell a quick story about that. I talk about St. Louis and growing up in classical music. There was a legendary bassist here. This would have been before your time. I mean, I was young when he was the, he was principal bass player for like 40 years, maybe 50 years of the St. Louis Symphony

named Henry Lowe. And I love calling out names of people that are like if you know him he's a legend you know if you don't it's like uh but like anyone who knows that name is going to be like oh yeah he was just one of these like i mean he just towered over the musical scene in st louis classical bass player and then he was like a really funny guy and and big personality or whatever but just incredible bass player but going back into that i want to say 60s because yeah he had been here a while when my dad started playing the st lou symphony in 76 he had been here a long time but my dad became fast friends with him he was older than my dad but my dad really

liked him, everybody liked him. But he would tell these stories about when Ray Brown would come to town, and this was early because he was still playing with Oscar Peterson. Wow. Although he did that up until the early 80s. But, you know, Ray Brown would come to town and call Henry Lowe and be like, I want to get a lesson. No way.

Yeah. And Henry Lowe is like, I'm coming to hear you tonight. He's like, yeah, let's do it tomorrow morning. And like that was part of his thing. And Henry Lowe was always so honored because like a lot of classical bass players, I would say classical bass players have always been ahead of the curve in terms of really understanding, respecting, and befriending jazz musicians over the years. For sure.

There's like a fraternity there that doesn't exist. Well, it's one of the only instruments. I think, yeah. No, I think you're right about that, actually. Yeah. Because classical pianists don't really play in the symphony. No. You know, we don't fratting.

But also, it's what you said about the pizicado. You think, I think the classical bass players respect a really strong sound like Ray Brown is like, okay, that's hard to do. I know how hard that is to do. Right, exactly. Whereas classical pianists, maybe not so much. with what we can do. Right, right, right.

So anyway, Henry Lowe was always, like, so honored because he loved Ray Brown and had been following him and we'd go, he was also a big jazz man. That's so cool. He was, like, grew up in New York, you know, like the whole thing,

it was like a huge jazz man. So, you know, he's calling him, so he would always tell the story. He comes to find out later, and I don't know how long this took, but he was talking to some other bass player. Ray Brown, for years, as he's traveling around the world,

not just in the U.S., every time he would befriend, like, the principal bass player in every orchestra. And someone he would become friends with, but he just would call the principal. He was like, can I get a lesson? And he's like, you know, at the beginning, by the end, like all of them knew him were like, of course. Yeah, and it's Ray Brown.

So, like, yeah, it's just hang. Yeah. So that was like, but Ray was already good. I'm not trying to say this is when he was a little kid. I'm saying like this. But that's the mentality about practice. That's the mentality. We've heard before what an epic practice or Ray Brown was.

Yeah. That's great. And I experienced it, you know. So your last one here is practice performing. and I think this is a huge thing. So, you know, when I set up what I was talking about before, how I was quote-unquote practicing performing this week as I was getting ready for this gig,

but it wasn't really performing. I was just playing a tune over and over again, just letting it ramble, seeing what was going on. I was exploring, but not in a way. Isn't that what a performance is? No, it wasn't. And it made me, it just sucked my soul dry. I think everybody understands what I'm talking about here.

You know that thing where it's like you're just playing an F blues over and over and over again, and you're just playing the same old stuff, and then you're like, what will I sound better? You know what I mean? That's what I felt like that old habit got into. Practicing performing is not that.

It's something different. And one thing I like to point my students to is, you know, at the end of your session, record yourself on your phone. Record and record it like you're recording a take in a studio. Like prepare for it, maybe decide on a little head arrangement. And then do it no matter what. Don't stop the recording. Do a full take-through. Yeah.

That's great. And that's one of the ways of practicing performing. I think that keeps you honest. You know what I mean? The recording is going to give you your best reference. I do think that there's just another element of kind of bookending to, say, your technical practice or you're more warming up like at the beginning. Like to give a scope, a form to your practice session that can be great where you choose

something to practice performing that you can really feel good about. So that might not be the most challenging tune that you just practice in your repertoire. You practice like a new monk tune that you don't quite know. Maybe that's not the way to end your practice. Like something to really connect you with the instrument, to connect you with yourself and your service to the music. So if you think about how can I serve, not just the music, but just kind of the world, your community, like whether you have an audience there or not, we're practicing. So we're pretending like we're practicing performing. or pretending like we have an audience, right? So what would be the most edifying thing you could do for an audience?

What can you play the best? It's not your hardest thing or whatever. What can you make sound the most beautiful? Do that. And that can be a really fun, pleasant way to end your practice routine, I think. And if you've asked that question that we were talking about at the beginning, you started your practice routine asking that question, what do I need to work on the day to get me to feel good?

Yeah. This performance is now your way to kind of grade. Yes. Did you reach that feeling? Yes. Was my intent to feel sure-handed? And then so, okay, so I practiced some, like, strong rhythm stuff, because I really wanted to feel sure-handed as I played it today. So now when I go and I record myself at the end and I practice my performance all the way through no stopping, just like its performance, did I feel more sure-handed?

It's a bit of proof is in the pudding kind of situation, you know? Or was it to feel free and accepting of whatever happens? Yep. Because you can practice that, too. So did that translate in the performance? If not, you can tweak tomorrow. Absolutely. And this may be an area where you can overlap a little bit in that sometimes, you know,

some things that we're practicing or learning, you need to sleep on them. You need time for it just to be absorbed into your psyche, into your ears, into your consciousness, into your, you know, whatever it is that has to come in so that when it comes out, it's this new beautiful thing. So sometimes a little bit of like overlap, maybe. you work on something one day and you're like, oh, I'm almost there or whatever. But that's not the thing that you practice performing at the end. But you're like, by tomorrow, so like you're planning it. Yeah, yeah.

And so maybe just, and you come in the next day and you're like, wow, that's just kind of happening. So then you've got, you know, it's fine to stagger it. That's a little bit 2.0, 3.0 or whatever. But you shouldn't be alarmed. You should lean into that, I would say. Totally. Yeah. Man, this was great.

This was great. You know I'm a nerd about practicing. I love talking about it. Man, we've talked about it before here, but I never get tired of it. And I think it's, I mean, we're talking about practice, right? We're not talking about the game. We're not talking about the gig. We just need to do our own Alan Iverson,

but we're going to substitute all of our nomenclature specifically for what we do for basketball. So like anything music is to sub-down. It's one of the great moments. Let's just talk about practice. We're sitting here. I'm supposed to be the franchise player, and we're in here talking about practice.

We are, Alan. I mean, listen, we're talking about practice. Yeah. Not a game. No. Not a game. Nope. We're talking about practice.

You're darn right. Not a game. Nope. Not the game that I go out there and die for. Nope. And play every game like it's my last. Respect. We're talking about practice, man.

We are. Well, this was good. Well, we are sponsored as always by Open Studio. And I would just say that was some great stuff you were breaking down on the ear training, even the basic places you start. You have a new ear training. course that look you can learn all that you're training you need to on your own and from recordings for sure for sure if you would like the loving guiding hand of a great practitioner and a great

teacher that's kind of streamlined things in a way that can be really game change you're still going to need to put in the work yeah but i think that you laid out beautifully in this course some great fundamental skills um and that's ear training basics it's called five minute ear training five minute training come on you're the CEO buddy you got to know that stuff i got lost in the weeds no but you know what so the five minute ear training it's actually a six week course where I do like five, five minute sessions a week. And it literally starts with what I was talking about, where it's like you start with intervals.

That's where it starts. And then it starts then to get into triads, being able to identify different triads, seventh chords, being able to identify the different seventh chords. And then we get into things like cadences, being able to identify things like cadences, getting weird with it. But hearing that bass movement

and then identifying quality of chords as a pianist, that's an essential skill. Yeah, it's great. And don't worry, he doesn't go through it that fast. He breaks it down. No, it's over six weeks. Yeah. That's the beauty of it.

That was just an overview. So there's that and we got a lot of fun, new things happening. As always over at open studio jazz.com. We have OSPro, which is like, it's just, it's a rival is eminent and it's imminent. Both at the same time. I hope it happens. Oh, no, it's happening. It's happening.

We got any other business we want to talk about before we let folks drift off to their day? No, this has been great. Thanks, everybody. We'll see you back here next week. Until next time. You'll hear it.