You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - Playing for the Audience (And Not Yourself)

Episode Date: December 16, 2020

It's another live edition of You'll Hear It where Peter and Adam take your questions. Peter and Adam talk about why it's important to play for the audience on today's episode, as well as whether new tunes can become standards.Interested in more music advice? Go here to browse our catalog of jazz lessons and courses available for purchase. And be sure to check out our All Access Pass - every course from Open Studio on every instrument.Wednesday's Open Studio Live Events (All Times EST):1:00 PM - Adam's Daily Guided Practice Session (for Members Only)6:00 PM - Edu Ribeiro + Kiko Freitas | Drum Conversations + Q&A on YouTubeFor the rest of this week's calendar, follow this linkLet us know what you think by leaving a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review, or head over to our YouTube channel.Follow us on Facebook | Twitter | Instagram See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Mike has a good question here, but don't you have to play for the audience in the end? And the answer is yes. And so, and this kind of goes back to a question that Noriko had posed about, like, how do you change your performance or what changes about your performance when you're in front of an audience? Can you discuss how the existence of an audience affects musicians' performance? Yeah. And so, and that I think dovetails nicely with Micah's comment here about don't you. have to play for the audience. So the idea is not to ignore the audience or to purposefully try to go against the audience. The idea is to be in full acceptance of whatever's happening, wherever you are.

So if that's at a rehearsal and Chris Potter walks in and you're, you were feeling pretty badass right before Chris Potter walked. What's up? CP! Yeah. And then you're like, oh, okay, well, okay, there's a heavyweight in the room. And so now I have to whatever. Like, just being accepting of all that. If you're in front of 50 people and maybe that's enough to like affect your concentration or you being present with the music, that's bad news. If maybe that threshold is like 500 people, you know, and you can't be present or comfortable. You can't be with the music. And when you are able to be present and comfortable and be with the music, you actually are then with the audience. Like your job is to translate the music.

to the people that are in front of you. So you have to be able to be present with that music and with the audience. You have to be able to be with whatever is with you at the time. That is the goal. So it's not a matter of shutting out the audience and just focusing on whatever it is you want to do or playing things that are difficult because that's for you.

That's not what we mean, Micah. You can craft a whole performance that's very, you know, very smaltzy and clickbait to an audience and still be present and mindful as you're doing it. that. In fact, there are whole performers in Branson, Missouri that make their entire living doing just that, you know, but they're amazing performers who are totally present. That's the gig, though. That's the gig, exactly right. So it's not really about not playing for the audience. It's really just about whatever it is you're presenting to be with it and mindful of it. Yeah, that's great

stuff. And I think, you know, when you can start to make the transition from the audience being well maybe at first being fearful of the audience and then the larger the audience you know your logical part of your brain will tell you oh i have to be more fearful you know it's like if there's three people there oh not a big deal there's 30 oh okay and there's 3,000 oh i should be really fearful why what difference does it make actually you know in terms of like if you're afraid that your story is not going to be it's not like if you if you haven't convinced yourself that you are willing to like serve the music to the best of your abilities on that particular live performance day then you're going to have trouble really you should have trouble with kind of any kind of audience because you're not putting yourself in the same in the kind of right mind space to be able to have the the chance to be able to reach somebody you could play for 3,000 people and just reach one person and that's a successful performance you know like it's kind of out of your hands at a certain point you could also do a performance for 10 people and reach all 10 of them versus playing for 3,000 people

and reaching nobody, you're better off playing for the 10. But that's not really up to you. You might play the exact same thing both times. So your job, our job as musicians, is to put ourselves to accumulate the skills to do the practice. Let's talk about some practice, you know, to really, but then also put on the mindset of a servant, right? So now I'm here to serve you. Just like if you go to a dinner party and you're the, guy with the white jacket and the you know the whatever and you're holding the tray your job is to serve and to make people feel like you know that's your thing it's not really to be like hey like you want to have a chat no you're there to serve drinks so same thing with music we are here to serve up the music

that's our our our job so as long as you're doing that you know it really doesn't matter the size because it's not about oh am i going to be embarrassed am i going to mess up see that's when you're thinking about it's you now it's not as easy to just do this i'm oversimplifying because what happens is this becomes like a lifelong journey to try to get to that point. But I think that that's what makes being a performing artist in the moment so exciting. And especially when you layer in all the improvisation that we do, that really makes it exciting because you're out there on the tight rope, right? Yeah. So we're we're usually on gigs where it's not playing something simple by wrote, but it's like, you know, depending on where you are that day, the whole thing has changed.

So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then what happens is it doesn't have to be. this long, arduous journey to get there because there's another element to being able to draw on the energy of the audience. And so once you start realizing and seeing it as a positive, the more people that are there, as opposed to like, oh, this is more chance for me to be embarrassed because I'm going to mess up. Then it becomes more of like, wow, more people. If I can pull them in to what we're going to experience together, I can actually use less energy. It becomes less and less about me. It becomes more about leveraging all this human energy that's there not to get too mystical but come on that's this is reality and when i was young

musician i heard the older musicians talk about this and i was like what i remember my daddy even talking about this you know with playing with the symphony and stuff and he would be like certain audiences just the energy that's there and the energy and i think a lot of times symphony musicians understand this better or like big band players because they're used to playing with a bunch of different people where you get in the habit of that energy solo piano or pianist yeah we're playing with a smaller group or whatever you have the energy amongst each other but you might be able to translate that and start to make that bridge to the audience. But it's very real. And once I started experiencing that, it became very exciting. So I looked at the only difference

between a big audience and a small audience was more chance to kind of harness or connect with more people. And it's harder usually because you're in a bigger venue. If you're at the village vanguard, 120 people, small venue, but you've got that close connection. It sounds great. It sounds like everything is physically set up for you to be able to succeed. So that's pressure because it's like, you don't have any excuse and be like, well, they couldn't hear me. or the piano wasn't any good or it's not a hip venue or whatever. But that's when you really got to just jump in there and be like, you know what? This is the time for me to do my job.

You know, do as great Sean Jones always says. Wait, hold up. Here we go. Where is he right there? Sean Jones. He says, he even has a hashtag, do your job. You know, that's what our job is. You know, serve the drink.

Serve the drink. It's really no different. Yeah. No, Fred Hirsch in his first master class said, you know, if you're thinking about the monster musician that just walked in the room, you're not doing your job. Your job is to focus on, you know, communicating that music to an audience, no matter what's going on around you. And that's, again, easier said than done. But I think real success in this, Peter, is feeling nerves, which we all do at certain points, no matter how big you get

or whatever. There's always a moment. I mean, you know, like, I hear you talk sometimes about, like, when you played at the White House, right? And I'd be like, man, I would be so nervous to play in front of, like, President of Obama back in the time. You know what I mean? So, like, there is always going to be a situation where you could be nervous. I think the success in this area is when you can be nervous, you can acknowledge and be there with your nervousness, and then still be yourself, right? You can say, okay, ooh, I'm nervous. Like, that's kind of cool. Like, that's kind of an energy that I maybe don't feel all the time anymore, whatever, whatever that is. Or even if you do feel it all the time, right, here's the nerves. This is where I get nervous. Can I, can I be here with

the nerves and also be here with the audience and be here with the music most importantly and with my fellow musicians as we make this this art. Another thing I want to say about this too is something that helps me with this is being in the audience of shows, of big shows, and kind of putting myself in the shoes of like the piano player in that show. And what you realize is like most every show I go to, I'm rooting for all the musicians on stage. I want them to take me on a journey. And I can, you know, when you see a nervous musician, someone who's obviously being affected by it, I'm like, oh, no, dude, like, we're totally, I'm not here to judge you. Like, I want you to just show me yourself and tell me this story. You don't have to be nervous. Like,

you can even make mistakes. I'm totally cool with that as an audience. You know what? In fact, I love that. I love when people take chances and mistakes happen, but they still stay with it. You know what I mean? So just know as you're got, as you're about to perform that the audience is, is far and away rooting for you to succeed. And you're not, and it's like, you're not even going to let them down if you make a mistake, right? Like, they just want you to confidently guide them through this story. That's really all you have to do.

So if you consider your performance, your, your gig, your concert, a story for them, right? You're playing all this music, all these sounds, which can be a story. And in some cases, like actual songs, which are actual stories. Like, if you can confidently take them through that, just know that they are wanting you to hold their hand confidently through that. That's what they really want. They don't want you to be perfect because we don't want, you know, I don't expect perfection out of any human being that I know.

But I do prefer it when someone is confident in who they are. And they are just telling their story in a way that's honest and real. And sometimes if I'm feeling nervous, I might even like kind of project that a little bit. I won't play with fire too much, but I'll even just kind of like acknowledge that that's here, even in my playing or or you know in a way that's that's real to me you know yeah i find that helps so much absolutely um all right here's one we may be going a little different direction here

can new pieces still become standards uh what what would you say to that manis i can't hear anything i have no idea what i'm playing but i just started playing uh roi hargos too strasberg san deni And yes, new pieces can come to be standards. I would even say maybe even, I don't know, Peter, what is your, what is your, am I playing it right? Does I take the A train you're playing? What is that? It's not a good.

I think for a certain demographic, that might become a standard. Well, you're, you're too kind. Yeah, I mean, I think that absolutely they can become standards. I think what happens, I think, you know, Sondini. St. D'Einise is that's kind of a real easy to see and logical pathway to a jazz tune becoming a standard by kind of modern standards by it being kind of a combination of being really strong, melodic, clear content that like usually attached with some kind of really prominent and primal groove. And by prominent primal, I mean something that my wife, Kelly Martin, would be like, oh yeah, I like that.

That's the kind of jazz I like. You know, not food jazz, but like, you know, something that makes you tap your toes in some ways. I think it's harder to become a standard when it's so inside or cerebral that there isn't some kind of like just normal person toe tapping kind of music. And just having that doesn't mean it's going to be a standard, but it's got to have that. So you look at Rue, I mean, I keep saying Rue Saint-Denis, because that's what I call this. We're working on it in Palfi.

But Strasbourg-S-Den-Denis. Sondini, that has the groove. You know, you know, you can feel it, you can hear it. You know, it's a great thing. And then a bit, bit, do, bit, but do, but do, but do, a real. And now this is a little, that was a little unique in that it's a little bit of a complex, almost unsinkable melody. Normally we're talking about standards being something like anybody could sing and like can recollect. and you hear it, you want to hear it again.

It's haunting in there. But I think this one, because of the repetition of it, the way that it rhythmically sits within the groove, but those things combined with it becoming like a jam session favorite. So you've got the musicians. It's not just about the listeners, the musicians. We're all listeners and musicians in a way. And this is talking about connecting with the audience.

The musicians want to play that, even though it's not their songs. Like that, I think, is the sort of missing link, which makes it a standard. Because then it's going to keep being played in different situations. If it's got lyrics, it'll be played by instrumentals. If it's instrumental, somebody might put lyrics to it. I mean, I heard Roussaint-Denis, this like Acapella High School group doing that on YouTube. It's actually really good. And they transcribed Gerald Clayton solo and like Acapella Acapellaized it.

It's like pitch perfect gone mad. It's like pitch perfect went to the Village Vanguard. And they did the whole solo and everything. And so, you know, I don't get any more standard than that, I think. Yeah. You know what? I was just thinking, like, it's an interesting time for the term standard. I think it's actually, I think we're closer now to having, like, regional standards,

pockets of players that have standards than we, than like ever before. Because even in the 70s and 80s, you know, all of the Beatles catalog, a lot of Stevie Wonder's catalog, even Michael Jackson, those tunes, those pop tunes, became standards. And I think really since the digital revolution, right, and there just aren't, there's just not going to be, another Michael Jackson and the kind of music that, you know, the biggest pop stars make is not really, it's not, it's not very conducive for like a jazz jam session, right? But there's still some, like Strausburg's Andini, there's still some jazz standards that are kind of taking hold.

I'm thinking about even amongst young musicians here in St. Louis in Kansas City, basically in the Midwest, our friend Vibrofonist Peter Schlam has this really simple tune called REL. Every young musician I know knows that tune. They all want to sit in with Peter and play it. It's a killing tune too, by the way. But I would imagine that just with how segmented the listening audience of jazz has gotten in the past 25, 30 years, I would imagine that there are regional standards like that where some really popular players who make beautiful music that,

might be, you know, and then they come across a simple tune like, like Roy's Straussberg's on Deney, and, you know, you could see how that would become a standard. But I think the idea of taking a pop song, just because pop music is so segmented now, too. You know what I mean? Like, there's just not, there's not going to be, you know, a thriller. There's just no, you know. Can we check this out for a second? I don't know if this is going to work because, you know, of our illustrious. Can you see that there? Oh my gosh. If you ask me if I can hear this and I can't hear it, Peter, I can't go through this again. Can everybody hear it? This is this. This is what we were talking about. Whoa, damn, that just felled out. Okay.

I can't hear it. I can hear it coming through your speakers. Okay. Did you share the audio? Did you do the Chrome tab and share the audio? Can you hear it better now? Oh, I got to share the audio. Sorry. Come on, man. It's your first time on Stream Yard, Peter. Come on. Dude, we're switching stream platforms every, every, you know, let me try to do that. Nobody can hear it, said Torqu. He didn't even say, I can't hear it. He's just like, nobody can hear it.

Nobody could hear it. Okay, let me, let me try it again here. Why don't you talk to the good people while I try to get my bleep together? This is a good album, John Herbie's New Standard from 1990s or seven. That's such a great record. yeah exactly so if I go Beatles and CBJR word

okay here we go bam I can learn I can learn there it is of course their name is syncopate shit and eight

yeah it's ACA fabulous I'm thinking of you and me I think about the places that you want to see make a little happy on the same thing Let's enjoy all the time we have to sit and dream

Imagine all the things I think the do with you Baby, baby, I can feel like that love and it will be so There is peace and believe you to give me out Baby let's enjoy the ride Let nothing it's gone by your side Would you give me all your love? Look out. Man, these, these, I look these high school.

It's really impressive for high schoolers. It really is. This is Gerald Clayton solo, the whole solo. The one we start to the inside. I mean, there you go. There you go. Gerald played solo. Oh, man.

We're, we're, Look at this. Stephen. You guys are making me think I should drop out of Open Studio. There's nothing jazz about this. Okay, Stephen. First of all, calm down. Yeah, yeah.

I'm very impressed with this. I hadn't watched this in about a year. I don't remember how I stumbled upon this, some kind of YouTube recommendation, but I was, you know, you have to be careful what you click sometimes, but I was very, like, somebody put some time into that.

And I compared it with, Well, I'm going to pull up. There's an amazing. That solo is so soulful and funky, and there's just an amazing juxtaposition with just the fresh-facedness of a high school acapella group singing that solo.

That's great. There's something very Andy Warholish about that whole scenario, you know? It's like the cast of Glee doing Nirvana or something. It's just there's something about it that's very entertaining, but also not quite right. Right. But the thing was,

two, okay, where, I'm just going to play a little bit of, I'll know this in the right one, sorry, I want to see if I can find this. I remember after I saw this, like I sent a text to Gerald Clayton or email or something. I was like, yo, check out what these kids did with your solo. And like, for whatever reason, I'm sure I've done this to people too. But like two weeks later, he emailed me back. It was like, cool, thanks. It's just like, I don't think he really watched it, you know. So I have to send it again.

It was very, very like kind of obligatory. No, I thought they had put, so you know what, that's actually, and it's not the solo from the album, I don't think. It's from the YouTube video. It's from the YouTube, right? Yeah. I guess it's from a DVD, but it was famously. That was put back up on YouTube again.

I'm just trying to find it. Maybe this is it here. No, that's not it. Oh, screenception. Streamception. Look at that. Can we have nice things? We're a professional outfit here.

That's not the one anyway. That's not it. That's not it. Anyway, if it appears again, I think there was a, there was a thing of like, I don't know, you know, that one that was taken from was up for years and then it got taken down. But I thought, I'm sure I saw, maybe it keeps on and then goes and whatever. Yeah, it was like the best, it was the best marketing you could ever do for buying that DVD. And they were like, can't have this up.

Right. Don't want people knowing how good jazz is. That'd be silly. Yep, exactly. Yeah, Joe's making a good point. I'm wondering, like, if we get dinged for just playing the Acapella version. Because remember we, when we, we listened to Ear Food on the Sesh. Yes.

And we ended by playing, like, basically that the version of St. Denis from the DVD. And we got, like, immediately dinged on the stream. Do you remember that? Right. Yeah. You know why? Haters are going to hate.

Hators are going to hate. No, but I don't know what makes it because YouTube was like there's nothing jazz about this. I was watching our friend Rick Biotto the other night. I think I texted you and he was listening to extended John Coltrane's live on his 2 million plus channel and didn't get, it stayed up, stayed on as far as I could tell. So I don't know. Yeah.

Oh yeah. He was jamming out to Blue Train. Badoo, hey. That's why I was like, you know what? We're going to try some listening here. Thank you.