You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - Poly Want A... Rhythm?

Episode Date: October 10, 2022

Adam and Peter dive into a Speakpipe question about polyrhythms. Have a question for us? Leave us a SpeakPipeCheckout courses from Adam, Peter and more at Open StudioLet us know what you think by leaving a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review, or head over to our YouTube channel.Follow us on Twitter | Instagram

Hey, Peter. Hey. You know what today's all about? No, I have no idea. Sandwiches. Sandwiches? I love me a nice, tempi sandwich. Arizona.

I'm Adamannis. And I'm Peter Marcos. And you're listening to the You'll Hear at Podcast. Jazz. Explain. We're doing a lot of fist bumping. You fist bumped Caleb for the intro. Well, because he nailed that intro.

He did really nail that intro. I wanted to make him nervous, too. It didn't work. But it was congratulatory, but it was also a preemptive strike in case he was getting too cocky about his execution. Good job. I'm just, can I just put my stuff to follow up?

Dude, we're trying to do a podcast here. I'm so sorry. Can you get professional? Okay, we're going to get professional. We're on YouTube. We're on Apple. We're on Stitcher. We are and we're on speak pipe.

You can leave us a message if you go to you'll hear it.com. Just like our old friend Spaceman, Alex did. He's left us, all right. So I just want to come. He's left us more questions that we've answered than anybody. Well, we've answered a lot of his questions, but I got to admit, Peter. He's left us like, I don't know, Alex, what do you think?

Like five or six in a row? He really wants to talk about this rhythmic concept and we keep avoiding it because it's kind of a heavy topic, Alex, and we don't really know what to say, but I thought we could just address it head on. So we're going to, let me get this straight. We're going to play a question

and answer a question that we are unable to answer today. I think we should just try to be... How's that for a teaser, y'all? Tune into the podcast today. I mean, we're going to crash and burn maybe, but it's going to be fun. So let's see what happens. Also, Alex is always thoughtful and entertaining.

It doesn't mean you're going to be able to answer it, though. Does not mean. First off, I'll be one to defend that Sharp Nine video. Definitely enjoyed diverse examples. Peter Martin soloing over Beyonce, as another YouTube commenter said, was definitely a treat. We've heard that. Speaking of treats, sandwiches? Seriously.

I think there's something to be said about polymetric swing, and I want to hear more. Mike Longo spoke about layering triplets, and so did Barry Harris. thinking about time in layers with polyrhythms such as three against two and three against four adds the depth that we hear from the likes of cannonball and Wes, many others. Once again, this isn't about playing polyrhythms. Rather, this is about feeling everything you play against a polyrhythmic swing. Bob Dubu knows what's up. Come on.

let's talk about rhythmic sandwiches. Let's talk about rhythmic sandwiches. Bob Dubu does know what's up. He does teach our rhythm class at Open Studio Pro, and he does teach a lot of polyrhythmic swing. So I think it's, you know, it's really hard, Alex, because we don't, I don't know about you, Peter. I don't actually...

We don't understand the words that are coming out of your mouth. Polymetric swing is what he said, I think. Polymetric swing. Polymetric? He said polyrhythmic. But then he said it's not about polyrhythms. But then he said three over two and three over four, which would be polymetronomic rhythms.

But I think what he's talking about, we do know. Okay, yeah. Which is like, if you're on one, um, two, gum, boom, do-d-d-dun-dun-cum-dun-cum-dun-dun-dun-dunk-cun-tun-dunk-tun-tun-tank-cun-tun-tank-tun-tall.

Right, so you can give me a little B-flat blues bass line. So it would be like adding that into your swing. I think that's Alex, maybe what you're getting at. See, we don't really have the words to describe it. Peter and I are both conservatory dropouts. Do they teach this stuff at the conservatory? Oh, that would be great. I'm sure someone does. So, okay, are we just talking about two against three?

I think that's what he's talking about, is using that. And actually, I wanted to address this too, because we try to teach rhythm at Open Studio Pro and with our Open Studio members as well. It is one of the harder things for people to wrap their head around unless they feel it. So, Alex, I think, like, one of the main takeaways from me for this is that you and I, I would say it's more important that you don't think like this than I don't think like this because I'm, I don't think like this, but also you don't think like this. And I know a lot of great pianists that don't know what polymetric means, but they just do it. Right. Right. So if we're talking about that, if we're, and I hear you do this all the time, so if we're doing that. So I wonder if you could, I hear you do like, which is three over four, three over two. Yeah, you do a lot of offbeat polyrhythmic metric. Yeah. So I guess we could just talk about like how, where does that come from?

It's got to be from listening, first of all. Yeah, yeah. And I'm trying to think of some things. Doong, do, ding, dung, gong, gang, gang, gang, gang, gang, gang, gang. Yeah. Because you've got the main kind of, the one on the beat is. So it's one, two, three, four. And then you group this in the groups of two.

Right. So when the baseline goes with, they can get interesting. Or groups of four. It gets trippy. I almost never work on this shit. I just kind of practice it as a solo. You know what I mean? Like in my improvisation.

That is one way, though, I think maybe the little entry point is with the baseline. Because if you think one, two, three, and then you just go to straight quarter and no triplets. But then you don't necessarily, well, maybe at first you do, but you don't always think about resolving on the one. So you got it. And then you could do this. Oh, yeah, yeah. But then you go, there's also, you know, there's also a way to get into that sort of three over four thing without even going to triplets. So keep the baseline going.

Check this out. One, two, three. Three quarter notes. Phrase is that or three quarter notes long. Right? So even just like three beats over a tune that's in four, four. four like putting your phrases three beats long so it's like a one two three that can be a great open door into this thing and then you could also go you know in the eighth note trail like you can go

way way down on this so so again that if i'll explain what we're doing here so uh let's do another yeah i don't know what that so just eighth note triplets two three dot that dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot we'll do in groups of two and then you can do groups of four these work really really well with like seventh chords. I'm just linking up the baseline. Now keep it just quarter notes, so you can hear it against it. Now keep doing it, and I'll link up with it. Ah, and then leaning into it,

leaning into a straight rhythm after you do that is really, really great. And I think with these, what's fun is, like, for the actual application of them, is like resisting trying to resolve it where it feels like it needs to resolve. Because that forces you to really phrase it in a way that like you're going to lose some of the logic of the direction of the phrase once you go into this

because you're throwing off the listener like their natural kind of like you set up especially if you start going or the bass player starts going yeah nothing's worse than if you actually are just square with this be playful with it but if you go all the way to macy yeah yeah yeah and also resolving on two on two instead of a one but also with this too peter like this is like anything else like you need to use this as a way to create tension against playing inside the rhythm. And that inside the rhythm could be a great resolution to this. So if you're, it actually makes your inside playing a little bit sound even like stronger. Yeah. So there's a little bit of this. Well, it's from, I didn't go into all of the three over twos, but there's a little bit of it on the Kenny Kirkland

video. Because Kenny Kirkland was a master of this. Jeff Watts, the way they play. I got a chance to play a few times with Jeff Watson. It's like when you even start hinting at this stuff. He goes with you. Oh, man, he goes with you, and then he plays a... And he comments on it. Oh, man, it's so fun, but you've got to know exactly where you're at. Let me lay down this baseline for you. You got to feel where you're at. And why don't you just show the people, just maybe just play around with it.

It's kind of unnatural to try to, like, force this in, you know what I mean? One, two, three. I don't know if I didn't need that what we were talking about, but that's playing around with the time, right? Playing around with the time. Yeah, well, Alex, I really hope that this helps to at least answer how we might approach it. because like I said, this isn't something that we've actually, at least I haven't, and I'm guessing just hearing you talk about it that... I'm wondering too, though, the idea of polyrhythmic swing, just in case he's talking about

something else, or just another thing to think about is like, you know, if you're a bing, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, like, there's that idea of where you're shifting over to the three. So it's like, one, two, the dotted quarter of thing. Yeah, yeah. No, it's not that, I don't think it's not a quarter because it's, an actual cordonel triplet over it, but you're treating it like

it's four. Right. So you got one, two, dung, I'm just thinking about the drums could say, ding,

to dang, dang to dang, to dang, tank to dang, tank, to dang, dang, and if you do it on this,

yeah, where you skip that first. Jeff Watson, him used to play that a lot, and I was like, what the hell is that? And then I just started trying to play along with it,

and I think that's what that is, but I don't know if that's polyrhythmic swing. I mean, if anything, this is like a really great endorsement, for doing what Christian McBride tells us to do, which is to keep a triplet going in your head as you're swinging. So whenever you're swinging, if we're swinging on this tempo,

let's try again, I'm just going to keep in my head. Duck, da, duck, do, duck, do. One, two, three, and a duck. Dock to dock, duck, duck, duck, duck, duck, da, da. Because then you can get all these polyrhythms going. Yeah, duck, da, da, da, dot, dot, dot, dot, da, da, da. You could also get the inside stuff. That's fun stuff.

That's fun. Cool. All right. Thanks, Alex. Thanks a good question. If you want to leave us a speakpipe, go to you'll hear it.com and leave us a speak pipe. Go over to our You'll Hear It YouTube channel

and subscribe if you haven't already. I love when you point it over towards the YouTube. Check my new hoodie, man. Over on YouTube, you can see this hoodie. This is for our Open Studio Pro folks. Caleb, can you go to my single shop, please? Thanks, Kit. Things we always know Adam's going to say.

This is something we say all the time over there. The two is just the five. shout out to Barry Harris on that one. But do not go to open studio jazz.com slash pro. Stay away from that place. You're not ready. You're not ready. You're not ready.

Until next time, you'll hear it.