You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - Practice Tips for Hand Independence

Episode Date: November 8, 2019

In another international episode, Peter and Adam discuss some practice tips you can use to help build independence of the hands.For more lessons at the piano with Peter and Adam, check out our brand new course: Jazz Piano Technique. In Volume 1 of this series, you'll get a 4-week bootcamp entirely focused on improving your ability to play pentatonic scales. For more info, go to https://www.openstudiojazz.com/jazz-piano-techniqueLike those You'll Hear It shirts Peter shows off on the podcast? Want some YHI swag of your own? Take a visit to our store! Just go to https://teespring.com/stores/open-studioLet us know what you think by leaving a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review, or head over to our YouTube channel.Interested in more jazz advice? Go here to browse our catalog of jazz lessons and courses available for purchase.Follow us on Facebook, Twitter & Instagram at:https://www.facebook.com/heyopenstudiohttps://twitter.com/heyopenstudiohttps://www.instagram.com/heyopenstudio See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Hey, Pete. Hey. Can you rub your belly and pat your head at the same time? It's funny you ask. I'm doing that as we speak. Senza. Senza Stark. I'm Adamannis. And I'm Peter Martin.

And you're listening to the You'll Hear at podcast. Daily jazz advice coming at you. Still coming from several quarters of the world. But we're getting closer. We're getting closer to each other, to our big reuniting. Did you know that? Got it and it feels so good. Come on now, that's time to do it.

We are brought to you today by Open Studio. Go to Open StudioJadiojazz.com to check out all of our courses, including our brand new course, jazz piano technique, Volume 1 pentatonics, in which you get to practice a four-week technique boot camp with U.S. Trulietta Manus and the great Peter Martin all over some modern pentatonic patterns. It's a super fun course. I don't know if you've seen Pete since you've been gone,

but it's really, really been popping off. people have been digging it. Yes. We're going to add, we have a bunch of fingerings in there, but we're going to add even more detailed fingering for your left hand, things like that in the next few days. So go check that out

today. Absolutely. Absolutely. And look, you can say, when Adam says super fun, now we want to keep this all within the realm of what we created and kind of the spirit behind it, because it's super fun, the same way if getting up at 6 in the morning

and going to a boot camp with, like, a couple of really mean fitness instructors. That's right. Dropping, give me 20. That's right. It's actually not that bad. But there is a lot of like handholding in terms of practice. We're not, we're spoon feeding you what to practice, but you have to do the work.

But we are there with you in a way that we've never, we've always talked about doing this in a course. But this is the most in-depth we've ever gotten into an actual like this is what you're going to do for 20 days. And it's just going to be part of your practice routine. This is not going to be. Well, I guess it could be your whole practice routine. I think you're still going to be wanting to work on music. You know, people have been telling us that they've been using this in conjunction with some of our other courses, like courses where we're more telling you, you know, what to play, how to play it.

This is really just let's practice, let's get better. You know, this is fun in the fact that when you're done with this, you're going to be super strong and feel super good on the keys. Exactly. And really, I mean, you know, with this one, and we're going to do this with all the volumes. This is going to be the first of many, I think. but it's about specific practice techniques and the guided practice session. But we always are designing these with keeping in mind that they spur your creativity,

the student's creativity and imagination to kind of spin off other ideas of things to practice. I mean, you can just do these. That's great. But it should also kind of spur some interesting things for you to come up with to continue your practice beyond the 20 days. And you know what? It's great that we're talking about the jazz piano technique course today because it kind of rolls right into our topic today. We got an email from Eli

in San Francisco. What a horrible place. Oh, just this. What a dump. Yucky. Looks bad. Bad food, bad wine, mean people. Slumping economy. That's right.

Now, Eli wants to talk about hand independence, which is part of jazz piano technique. He says, I just bought the Brazilian jazz piano course. And I'm beginning to internalize the Sampa and Basanova rhythms, but I need practice tips on how to keep the rhythm going in the left hand while playing the melody slash improvising in the right. I can't do it.

I take it slow, but easily get off track. Would love a podcast on the subject or anything that can help me. Like walking and chewing gum at the same time, only harder. Best wishes, Eli. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, this is a great question. I mean, what he's describing is classic. It's really the definition within the jazz context of what hand,

independence truly is in terms of like the function and what we actually need to do. I mean, yeah, tapping your head while you rub your stomach in a circle, that's hand independence. But I mean, this type of like, you know, playing a rhythm with your, you know, the groove with your left hand, while you do the melody improv and the right, that's exactly what you need to get to. And so I'll just sort of kick it off and say that, and I'm sure we'll get into some specific kind of concepts in piano tech, I mean, practice techniques. But I would just say that, you know, this is such an important and a massive part of kind of going next level, going advanced, whatever you want to call it, like really getting to a high level of technical

ability to play jazz music or really to play any kind of creative improvised music or really just to play the piano, I would say. Yep. Even if you're playing written stuff. So it's worth taking a little bit of a breath and thinking about like, okay, what is the mindset I need to adopt so that I even have a chance to be able to do this because this is hard. Like this, there's no sugar coding this. But it's kind of a simple concept. It's very, it's difficult, but it's actually very simple.

Like the essence of it is doing two different things as separately as you can, but as consciously as you can with your two different hands. That's all hand independence is. You can make it sound a lot more complicated, but it's very core. It's just doing two different things, you know? And being able to do them both creatively. So that's kind of an ideal that we maybe never fully get to, like where we have absolute total separate control.

But I think that if we do just sort of take a breath and say, okay, what is the mindset we have to have in order to be able to hope to get to there? So I would say the first part of that mindset is just that we all have the ability to do this. So this is because it is very difficult and it doesn't come, it doesn't come automatic to almost anyone. You might think you might hear Elio Alves in the Brazilian jazz piano course, hear him play. It sounds like oh my God, he was born like he was able to do that. I guarantee you that's not the case.

Some people do have a little bit more talent, but it takes a lot of work to get to this point. But the first thing is you have to believe that you can do it. And I really believe that anybody can get this. Are you going to get to the point of a Jeff Keiser or an Leo Alvis? I don't know. I can't guarantee you can get to where you're playing a separate group in your left hand and you are improvising in your right game. Anybody can do that if you put in the time. But you have to have a mindset of accepting that you can do it. It's just like doing anything that's difficult. You have to, like, you don't have to be able to do it the first day, but your first actual day on a journey to achieving something like this has to be like, wow,

I believe that I can do that. I know I'm getting into a little bit mystical kind of thing, but it's really like, you know, if you're going to run a marathon, you can't train for a marathon in one day. But in one day, you can make a decision that, you know what? I'm going to do that. It might be in three years. It might be in six months. But I believe. leave I can get to the point. I don't have the condition today to do it, but I know I can get to the promised land. I love it. So yeah, so I just think that these bigger things, I mean, it's not like working out the figures to a pentatonic scale where you don't have to go through a mindset shift, a mindset shift. You just have to like practice for an hour and then you've got it. This is not like that.

This is a longer journey. So it is worth taking a little bit of a breath and being like, hmm. And then, you know, some of the things we've talked about that go along with that kind of imagining and even visualizing yourself playing in a way that really represents that kind of hand independence. And you can do that, like when you're just walking around or you're laying in bed or whatever, kind of imagine yourself doing that. You'd be surprised at how much that helps you to get there.

That's awesome. So some practical tips, Eli, for you once you have that belief. And I'll just add to your thing. I believe I can fly. I'm just saying a little background music to inspire. I believe my left hand can fly. While my right hand is gliding by. That's right. Yeah. Practical tips. And just first of all, I think, you know, what Peter just said is so crucial. Patience has got to be a big part of this. And you have to be consistent with this and really include in your daily practice routine if you want to see any results from this at all. You can't just sit down at the gig and be like, okay, and now I'm going to play independently. You really have to work at this, as he said. But as he said, you can do this. The first thing you need to do is to sort of simplify things. I would start with the most basic.

Basanova rhythm that Aalio teaches, which is something like a... Dun-da-na-da-da-a-da, something like that, and just play it in your left hand over and over and over again. One core, just get that rhythm so solid. I mean, I remember Peter and your jazz piano for beginners course, you talk about this a little bit about hand independence, and you say something to the fact of, you just have to make it so easy on yourself that it,

it's not overwhelming anymore. And the only way to do that is repetition. So start with the most simple thing, and not the simple thing that I just said, but whatever you consider to be simple, something that's easy for you to do, and really work it in your left hand only at first until it's like you can chew gum

and do it at the same time. You can check your email and still keep it going, keep it in the pocket, and then start adding your right in, but add it in a very simple way. Maybe you don't even start with the melody of the tune. Maybe just start with whole notes, so you can feel what it feels like to play whole notes

and then do half notes and then maybe quarter notes. And then you can start mixing in some syncopations, but you're not going to be able to just go in there and do the girl from Eponema with complete hand independence after you've practiced it in your left hand for an hour. You really have to feel what it's like for the hands to work against each other than to go and work with each other.

That is definitely where I would start with this. Yeah. No, can I add an amen? Amen? Amen. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, and this is great, too. What I don't know too well is how this works if you're left-handed, which apparently

10% of the population is, so it's a sizable number, like whether or not. But I think, you know, for right-handed people, at least what you're saying, like, this is really the way to go. It's like, yeah, we want the hands to be independent, but we need to spend a little bit more time working on the non-dominant hand to get us to be able to control it. Because the funny thing about the things that we can actually practice to get hand independence, you know, 90% of it is going to be practicing hand separately. That's the kind of counterintuitive thing to it because it's really about like getting. And I might have used even then, you know, the term before kind of automating and not in a sense of like non-musical, but just to the point where you could play.

Bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, you know, whatever rhythm you're doing in the left hand in a way that it's so automatic, but still musical and grooving and all the things. So you have to concentrate on that, on just its own. And then, as you said, repeat it. But now when you say repeated, do you mean like three or four times you should practice it? No, no, I mean like three or four months. I mean like, like for as long as you can stand it until it's just automatic, like you said, you know? Just keep on drilling it in. I mean, think about how many times you probably worked on scales in your right hand so that you could get those automatic. It's the same principle. Whatever you want to be able to play in your left hand automatically, you have to work over and over. It's all about putting in the reps.

Yeah, it's definitely putting in the reps. And it would be like the actual practicing of playing both hands together independently, like where you're really improvising with both hands. Even if the right hand is predominantly doing an improvised line or melody in the left hand is in

something chordal and not quartal, but like chords and rhythmic groove-based things, although you could certainly split up the hands and you do. I mean, that's the fun thing about when you get into the hands, you start being able to throw things back and forth. But the idea is that like the actual practicing of doing that, you don't have to actually spend a lot of time doing that. That sort of just starts to come as you get control

over each hand individually. For sure. For sure. And I like this idea of like adding just some like wholeness because like once you make that breakthrough where you can't. And I think, you know, that's the important thing about the mindset at the beginning because I think most of you will realize you might be saying like I can't. I might do. I have no independence. And I have to look at the note again. Did he actually say, did Eli say he has no. independence at all. He said he can't get it. I can't get it.

I can't do it. I take it slow, but easily get off track. See, this is the thing. I can't do it. So that's, to me, it's like a big red flag that you got to change that part. Because all you have to do is get to the point. And look, this might take three months,

but get to the point where you could do a little bit of independence. If you're playing hold notes in the right hand and kind of improvising them or just, you know, choosing from something in the harmony, playing a very simple whole note, you know, melody while you're playing a steady groove in the left hand. that's playing with Independence and Hands. You've actually got it now. Yeah, for sure. Now, you're going to build on that slowly,

and then at a certain point, it's going to be like that curve that's like the hockey stick thing where it's going to take off. This is definitely, are you familiar with the hockey stick? I know you're familiar with hockey. Oh, yeah, no.

I've played hockey, for sure. No, I know. So you know the shape of the hockey stick, but it's going to be like on a graph where it's getting just a little better, it's getting a little better, and then all of a sudden it's just going to take off one day. This is definitely one of those skills I've experienced,

and I know you have, And we've seen this with a lot of pianists. It's like it gets, there's kind of an avalanche effect, which is great with this. But you've got to put in the reps and sets, be patient and get that mindset going. And then you can just kind of wait for it to come. And, you know, knowing that it will accelerate that progress at a certain point. One more tip. Well, I love everything you just said.

One more tip on this, Eli, is you might want to check out some classical music, some box two and three part inventions. me like you. You know what I'm saying? That way you have this automatic. I feel how my hands are independent with each other against each other. You get that feeling and you don't have to improvise with it. It's all kind of there for you, but it's great for hand independence. I think that's great. And you know, you could take that too, especially as you're starting to get a little bit of confidence. But maybe you don't feel like you have a lot of, like let's say that you can do the whole note thing and you can do a little bit. You're like, wow, I'm starting to maybe get it. What you can do is to take a, improvised line that you either write or you just kind of memorize or that you know a set line and then switch things up so instead of like using the left hand as the foundation to improvise of the right hand continue the same you know improvised line which will not actually be improvised it would be set in the right hand while you change things up in the left hand maybe you play a baseline maybe you play chords of a different rhythm but you know what I'm saying like you kind of change the control from the left hand to the control being the right hand so that's a way to kind of start to challenge

challenge yourself and I think that'll kind of get you to progress a little bit more. But yeah, for sure. Two-part inventions, three-part inventions. I mean, really, any classical music, any kind of written music for both hands is going to force you into, you know, developing some level of hand independence. It's not going to take care of the improvising part, but it'll get your hands with two different things at the same time. For sure, for sure.

Cool. Yeah. Thank you for the question, Eli. That's a great question. You know, Pete, we should do something else on hand independence. Like, we should do like a... Well, you know what I'm thinking, too? You know, we just gave away so much good advice on this. Can I give some bad advice on this?

Yeah, sure. Because this is, okay, good. Okay, I was just thinking something else you can do. So if you practice two skills, doing two things at the same time, like driving and texting, that'll help with your hand in the penance because you're having to do one hand on the steering wheel and one on the phone, right? That is horrible, horrible advice. Do not follow that advice, especially right now if you're listening in your car. Jeez, man.

Sorry, sorry, sorry, okay. I said I was going to give a little bad advice, man. Full disclosure. Full disclosure. All right. All right. All right. Well, what are we doing here?

We nailed that one. Thank you, Eli, for the question. And we would just say, please visit us because our sponsor is actually us. It's a very nepotistic internal operation. A little nepotiz. No, we're open to your jazz. And you'll hear a podcast. We actually may be having another.

We've had a couple of great sponsors that have come and they haven't really gone. They've just moved on to other things. We have some other ones coming. But Open Studio, Jazz.com is our primary sponsor, and we want to be able to continue to do this and all that kind of things. So please come visit Open Studio Jazz. Check out some of our courses. Check out on YouTube channel.

We've got some new stuff happening there, both in the you'll hear it category. But we have some other tutorials, the Two Minute Jazz and stuff as well. But we got some new stuff popping over there. there. So check that out when you get a chance. And what else did the good folks if you check out, Adam? Well, they should check out not just You'll Hear It.com, but not just for the podcast, but for the blog.

The blog. Absolutely. We got a ton of free stuff up there, like everything from great voicing episodes to things like Two Minute Jazzes from you amongst many other artists. Go check out. You'll hear it.com. And then click on the blog tab and you can see all this great written materials. material. And videos. Loads of videos.

Yep, loads of videos. Well, good stuff. Well, I will be, well, I guess we're going to do a couple more remote here now, but I will be heading back to the United States tomorrow. So until then, you'll hear it.