You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - Remembering Wayne

Episode Date: March 9, 2023

Adam and Peter reflect on the long and incredible legacy of the master Wayne Shorter. Check out Peter's video on Footprints here.Want to check out the video yourself? Check it right here. Have a question for us? Leave us a SpeakPipeCheckout courses from Adam, Peter and more at Open StudioLet us know what you think by leaving a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review, or head over to our YouTube channel.Follow us on Instagram

Hey, Adam. Yes. We lost one of the giants, one of the greats last week. We did, and it's a sad week, and it's a sad time for all musicians, I think, who loved the amazing Wayne Shorter. But we're going to honor his life and his music today. We're going to celebrate the rich musical tapestry and legacy that he has left us. Let's do it. I'm Adam Maness.

And I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to The You'll Hear Podcast. Music advice coming at you. And, yeah, this is a, it's always a, it's like a, a. impensive time when we lose one of the greats of our music. And it's easy to be at a loss for words, as you might be able to tell I already am in a way. Because I think about Wayne Shorter and, you know,

the legacy of music that he created in all the different ways that I interface with it over the years from when I first was listening to jazz, which, you know, I was so honored and blessed for Wayne Shorter's beautiful sound, his compositions, his saxophone to be some of the earliest things I heard, really by way of Herbie Hancock, because I was interested in Herbie. And Miles for me. And Miles, yeah. And so that led us to Wayne.

But I think about, you know, I guess it's just gratitude. You know what I mean? Gratitude that somebody like him existed, that that music came out. And I almost look at it as separate from the individual. And I think that that's the way that maybe Wayne was looking at it and would look at it in terms of like he had. this gift that he gave and shared. You know what I mean? And I think because we see him as really one of our greatest composers as well, incredible saxophone is, you know, amazing instrumentalist, amazing human presence within the music. One of the great people of the last hundred years.

Yeah, I mean, it's really all intertwined, right? It's so intertwined. But really a, you can't even say father figure, grandfather figure, just, you know, both a parent and a child of the music at the same time because he stayed so active, so exploratory. But I think because of his compositions, when we talk about great jazz composers and, you know, you can debate whatever, but once you get into that upper legion, you talk about your Thelonious monk, your Herbie Hancock's, your Duke Ellingtons, your Wayne Shorter's. I mean, that's a small group, and you could add, you know, Billy Strayhorn, but there's something that they have in common with each other in that they wrote truly jazz standards.

That's true. Right? Things that helped us and all musicians and continue and will continue to help musicians be able to play better, to learn this music, to be able to be connected with each other through the music. So I think ultimately that is one of the greatest gifts that he gave us of these living compositions. Oh, so many gifts. So many gifts.

I mean, as a teacher, and I don't think he ever taught, you know, obviously like an online. Skype lessons. YouTube video or anything like that, but just as a presence. Yes. And to hear him play and to hear him. talk about his process and what he wants to do. And after he passed, the day he passed, so many people were telling stories of their interactions with.

And one of my favorites that I saw was from friend of the show Emmett Cohen, who said after, I think it was when Emmett was in the Monk competition, and Wayne was one of the judges. And Wayne told them, you need to go watch a bunch of films. You know, you sound good, you need to go watch a bunch of movies, which I thought was unbelievable advice. That you would think like, oh, you should work on this,

stride thing, whatever, you know, I don't know. But, like, to say, like, you need to round out your artistic, you know, vision with some of this other medium, you know, I think is, it sums up to me Wayne's entire vibe, that it's not, it doesn't stop at the bandstand, it doesn't stop at the horn, it doesn't stop on the page, it doesn't stop in the recording studio, it doesn't stop with the genre, it doesn't exist, none of this stuff, it's, there's no separation between, I mean, and Wayne was a Buddhist, and like, that idea. of no separation is a principle

in Buddhism. And so it was how he existed. And so I thought today, man, you know, there's this one video that is actually on Herbie Hancock's YouTube channel of the Miles Davis Quintet playing live in Sweden, October 31st, 1967, playing probably

Wayne's most famous composition. It's become a jam session standard footprints. And I thought we would listen. Often played incorrectly, but that's for another video. Well, you have a great video on how to stop effing up footprints, which everybody should go check out. Actually, Caleb, link to Peter's video on footprints because it's really. Maybe you could talk about that a little bit.

Well, no, yeah, this is going to be great. And I love that you pick this out. I was just thinking, too, you just mentioned something kind of otherworldly. And I realized that, like, Wayne Shorter always, like, the few, the couple of interactions that I had with him, well, many interactions, just, but the few kind of physically, in physical proximity to him, which I cherish, were so, like, he operated, like, at this other place. Yeah. You know, even above, like, I mean, and I don't want to speak for Herbie Hancock or anything, but I have heard him talk about this, like, and Miles and Ron Carter and stuff.

I think Wayne was in a place, certainly musically right with them, and that's his, that's his crew, that's his tribe, you know. But also, you know, his other bands, I mean, his latest, you know, groups that he had with Terry Lynn Carrington and Esperanza Spalding and the opera that he wrote, but also the longtime quartet. The quartet is one of the great bands of the last 20 years. Exactly. Exactly. And I think it maybe even goes beyond 20 years. With Brian Blade, John Patitucci, Danilo Perez. Amazing.

Yeah. And I got a chance to hear them quite a bit early and some in the middle and even some relatively recently. But he operated at such a different place. And I remember being in the elevator with him once in France. And like, he's at the same time probably the most intimidating musician that I've been around and the least. And let me just try to explain that a little bit in that.

like he is so accessible as a human. I don't, and I don't even know, like, it's so far above me what that even means. Yeah. But it's a feeling that you get. Like, he's so welcoming. But at the same time, like, he's operating a different place. And I remember I was just like, I want to say something to him, but I just kind of was enjoying being in the elevator with him.

So I didn't want to be like, wait, what are the changes on? Well, how did you actually read? No, don't do that. Don't do that. Yeah. So I knew that wasn't the move. Well, he just, he vibrates on a higher level. No, but I remember I said, like, I was just like such an idiot.

I'm just like, wow, we're going up to the, we're going up. We're going up on the elevator. We sure are. And no, but, but Wayne was like, he said something like, we're going up. Yeah, I was like, well, going up, you know. Yeah, sorry. The great geniuses of the 20th century. Yeah.

But Wayne just had this very like welcoming. He wasn't just like, oh, shut up little dude. Well, it's interesting. Wait, can I tell you what he said? Sorry. No, he's, he said, oh, I thought that's what he said is. He was very humorous too. So I think it's okay that we're infusing some humor.

He was a very humorous first. person, but he said, yes, he said, I can't remember the exact words, but it was like, yes, we're always trying to elevate. Oh, man. But it was like so above me, I was like, whoa, just mind blown, you know. And, but that's kind of the way he was. He would say, you know, he would talk, I guess, in parables a lot of times and different things. But he had this very specific thing. And the other time that I was able to talk with him a little bit was in an airport, always transporting somewhere, I guess. And I came over and he was just kind of standing waiting to check in, sort of, and there was some other musicians around, but I was like, man, this is Wayne

shirt I got to go and saw it. So I was like, hey, Mr. Shorter, good to see you. And he was super nice. And he had this big, uh, leather kind of black case, which you would know as, as an orchestrator and composer yourself that had scores in it. And he was holding it. And, you know, Wayne was, was not a tall gentleman. He was about my height as, as it was. And, um, he's kind of sitting there with this thing that's almost as long as he is tall, but sideways, like holding it. And then he had like his saxophone just looking just happy and content and I said oh you have your scores there and he said yeah and he said you know I always keep him right with me always keeping my music right with me but they were doing a tour with the quartet playing some orchestra gigs in Europe and he was always he didn't want to like

have anybody else carry those he just but I was just thinking I was like wow okay so he's written this amazing music and he's holding it and his saxophone I was like that's the whole package that's like seeing you know like this great soccer player with like a soccer ball yeah travel around just people Some shin guards. People in a crummy airport lounge just sitting around like, you know, this potential in a box next to them. It's incredible. Well, before we play this, I'm glad to hear you talking about his openness, right? And his ability to sort of be an open person.

Because the other quote that I read was Esperanza Spalding saying her and Wayne having a conversation. And Wayne said something to the effect of, you know, when you go on stage, you have to forget. all of your Grammys, which is only a conversation that Wayne and Esperlin. I'd be like, no problem. When you go on stage, you have to forget all your Grammys. Just be out there in your pajamas telling a story. Your pajamas. Which is amazing.

I mean, if you think about it, like what he's saying there is you have to not be, you know, not put on your Grammy. I'm an expert. I'm the one here, you know, preaching down from the heavens at you. But here's me at my, here's me dressed in the, the most, you know, intimate piece of clothing I own. My pajamas, literally what I sleep in. I'm most vulnerable in.

And I'm going to tell you a story here. And you're going to be able to come in to this world. It's really, it's a lesson. His whole life was a lesson, I think, for all artists. Lesson received, Mr. Shorter. Thank you. So let's check this out because, you know, we were looking for different YouTube videos that we could share and we were maybe going to do a bunch of them.

There's so many to choose from. There's too many to choose from. But as soon as we started playing this, I thought, man, And this, to me, captures what Wayne brought to the music, because jazz was different before and after Wayne shorter, and this is the vibe that he brought. This is, again, Miles Davis, quintet. So it's Miles, Wayne on tenor saxophone, Ron Carter, a friend of the show on the bass, Tony Williams on the drums, and some upstart Herbert Hancock.

You know, you ever heard this guy? We should search for Herbie at some point. He's searching for Herbie. So this is Footprints from 1966. I'm sorry. Can we do commentary on this? Are we okay? Okay.

That's what we're here for, man. I love, because the camera is so far only been on Miles and Wayne, and we should just say here, if my math is correct, Wayne shorter would be 33 or 34 years old. Sure. You said 67, right? Born in 1933. So just think about that. You know what I mean? Yeah.

But Tony Williams is playing this incredible, like, very, like, crazy fills. Everything that everybody's playing is incredible. Yeah, but look at the just Miles and Wayne are like locked in on what they're doing. I mean, they're not phased at all. I'm over here 57 years later or whatever it is like, ah! And they're just like so focused. So I think, you know, so many lessons for us, always with these kinds of things. But like, just to remember the level of concentration and fastidiousness and just professionalism

and just execution that this band had. A lot of times, you know, people like, oh, this is the class of quintet. They're playing modes. That's why there's, and obviously they are. You know, all that kind of stuff is happening. But I think also the way that they would surprise each other, but stay locked in on what they're doing. Lots to learn that. It's in the moment.

Everything is in the moment. And just briefly on the composition itself, you know, like I said, footprints is now a jam session standard. You probably know it. But if you don't, it's really essentially a blues. It is an elevated. Speaking of elevated, it's an elevated blues, C minor, then the four chord, then back to C minor. And then that bridge, which we can talk about. about a little bit later. Let's keep going here.

You're expecting to see this huge drum set after you've heard that. You see he's got this little jazz here. The core chord. The root stays the same. Turn around. So it's just 12 bars. Adventure. It's a spiritual practice.

You know, there's no separation between that part of his life and this part. I just want to stop real quick just briefly. Before Herbie gets too far into it because to me this entire performance is like again, it's a lesson. And what can happen when you allow things to happen.

Yeah. Right. When you're really not trying to play to impress. Right. Your goal is to be present and aware with what's happening in the moment. And then this amazing, like that little, the end of Wayne solo, the last, I don't know, minute and a half. Yeah. Way down.

And he was just letting things stream out. Unbelievable, man. We wouldn't have that moment without his gift of being able to be present in the moment. Yeah. It's killing. It's stunning. It is. It's stunning.

And it sets this up. Yeah, and it's not just him. Like, this doesn't happen without that. It's all five of them. Yeah. Dude, Tony Williams could play whatever he wanted. What is he choosing to do? Oh.

Nothing. Strolled. Like that right-hand technique of Mr. Hancock did. Get a camera on the base? What's up? Herbie had to, knew he had the, he could feel Miles coming back. Yeah, they always get to his thing, you know. Comments.

Yeah. Put what microphone that is. It looks like a noise. Yeah. Could be wrong. Come on. Wow. Well, that was.

Incredible. Incredible. Thank you for pulling. I've never seen that before. I mean, I've seen them playing different versions, some videos with that band from around that time, at least two other maybe footprints. But I don't think I've seen it. If I haven't, it's been a while.

It's a revelation. It's a revelation. It's so inspiring to hear all five of them. You know, like I said, really commit to what's happening on stage without, it seems like, without much of an agenda. Well, actually, I think when Miles went to the side of the stage, during Wayne so I think he was on TikTok I'm not sure he was scrolling on his phone he was recording for social now but you know when we talked to we've been so

fortunate to talk to Ron Carter several times about specifically this band yeah and he said there was no agenda they didn't talk about it yeah at all and they would just you know drive to the gig show up play the gig and that was it and Miles would start these tunes and yeah and I think you know I was as I was listening to Wayne there I I was thinking about John Coltrane so like you And I don't mean to be overly simplistic about this, but in terms of the lineage of saxophone, and there's going to be some glaring omissions here,

but you talk about Charlie Parker. Sure. I mean, really, you talk about Sidney Bichet. Sure. Talk about Charlie Parker, John Coltrane, Wayne Shorter. Like, that is sort of an unbroken link and a kind of power, specifically on the saxophone. We were talking about him as a composer.

Yep. And just as a visionary, as a human within the music. But I think in terms of like the saxophone, because this was recorded 67. It was probably shortly after, because John Coltrane died in 67. And so this was October. This was probably after Coltrane was gone.

But like that, and I know that Wayne and Coltrane in many ways were contemporaries. But in terms of like their impact on the music, and then you talk about your brand for Marcellus, your Michael Brecker's, your Joshua Redmond's, your Chris Potter, all these great saxophone players. I mean, Wayne Shorter, and John Coltrane, like just those

and what they did to the music and to that instrument? John Coltrane died in July, 60th. In July. Yeah, so that's just a few months before this. But I mean, Wayne is the one who like, I don't even want to say, took the baton. They were running with the baton together. Yeah. Coltrane's a little older, for sure. He's a little, yeah, on the scene

a little before him. Right. But I mean, that's like, I mean, it doesn't, that's like the Herbie Hancock and Chickaria. That's like the, you know, the Miles and Freddie Hubbard, you know. Absolutely. It's just, It's a very impactful thing, you know. It is.

I mean, to me, what I'll take away is that sense of, I mean, Sean Jones said it in the video you guys made, which is mostly about Herbie, but of course, Wayne and Herbie were linked. Yeah. Which is, you know, that sense of imagination, of exploration. And to be able to explore,

you really have to drop expectations of what's going to happen. If you want to be honest as you're exploring. Yeah. Because if you're, if you have the expectations, then you're just searching for some kind of goal. Right. Right.

And that's not explorations. really that's just you're looking for your car keys well searching for herbie that's exploring well we'll see but if you if you can drop you know expectations if you can drop what you think you should be doing and let it happen so many moments on there would not have happened if there was like a bunch of i should be doing this right involved you know i love this one of the articles um had a title i think this was the new york times one not the obit but an article about his impact wayne shorter a jazz hero who's goal was to fear nothing. That's amazing. You know.

And I mean, you know, for me, the way I approach this too, it really is a celebration and a thankful, like gratitude and celebration is the way that I think about Wayne shorter now. And, you know, our condolences to his family. He had a big family, grandkids, and he was able to be with his

grandkids and all his close family at the end, which was some beautiful things, some great pictures of that. But, you know, Wayne was very much a believer. in continuing on as per his beliefs and stuff. So we salute him and thank him with the onward journey. And we celebrate this amazing oeuvre, of work, you know, recording. That's why I was just like saxophone, composer, visionary leader,

you know, a lot of different levels, but a lot of gratitude. Let's go out here with a little bit of I didn't know what time it was. How about that? That from the Art Blakey? Yeah. Yeah. Thanks, everyone. Thank you, Wayne.