You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - "Rumours" — Fleetwood Mac

Episode Date: August 18, 2025

Fleetwood Mac's Rumours is undoubtedly one of the best pop rock albums ever. But the story behind its creation reads like a soap opera. Everyone -- Stevie Nicks, Lindsey Buckingham, Christine McVie, John McVie, and Mic Fleetwood -- were enduring heartbreak during its recording. Stevie and Lindsey were breaking up. The McVies had already split, but John wasn't ready to let go. Even Mic Fleetwood was separating from his wife back home. For three months, they were stuck in a recording booth together nearly round the clock, singing each other's breakup songs and harmonizing with their exes. Heartbreak is encoded in every song, from Lindsey Buckingham's "Never Going Back Again" to Christine McVie's "You Make Loving Fun" to Stevie Nick's "Dreams". But in spite of ... or maybe because of? ... this termoil, Rumours has become one the best selling albums of all time. Peter and Adam listen to this pop rock masterpiece front-to-back, deconstructing each song (and the stories behind them) to understand what makes this album great. -----Get the YHI newsletter for bonus stories that didn't make the pod.Start your free Open Studio trial for ALLLLL your jazz lesson needs.Keyboards? Albums we haven't covered. "Boomer" talk. We know you have opinions about this show. Help us make You'll Hear It better by sharing your feedback with us and answering a short survey. You could win one of three $100 Amazon gift cards! Visit youllhearitsurvey.com to learn more and fill out the survey.

Peter Martin. What's up, man? Pop Quiz. Yep. What won the Grammy for album of the year in 1975? Grammy, 1975, album of the year. Oh, Paul Simon, still crazy. We just did this a couple weeks ago.

Yeah, let's do it. What about for 1976? Oh, 1976. Stevie Wonder, Songs of the Key of Life. Yeah, and I think 1977, I mean, it's got to be, it's got to be this. Yeah, Steeley, Dan, Asia. We've done that, too. It's got to be that.

Actually, wrong. No. Yep. Rumor has it that it's this. Oh, boy. That makes sense. That's all you, that's all. I'm good.

I'm out of menace. And I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to the You'll Hear It Podcast. Music Explored. Explored, brought to today by Open Studio. Go to Open Studiojadogadogad.com for all... Your jazz lesson needs. Hey, Peter.

Yes. Have we ever done an album quite like this? A great album? Yes, we've done many of those. We do those every week. This is a great album. This is an extraordinary album. For sure.

But, yeah, I think it's a little different than anything. I think that we're widening the net a little bit. The tent is getting a little bit bigger. But I think that I think this is right up the alley of a lot of our listeners. I think that this is actually not that controversial of a record, the greatness of it. Oh, no. It is... Even among jazz nops.

That's the thing is this is like, this is very much not jazz adjacent, right? So we've done, of course, lots of jazz albums, lots of jazz-adjacent albums on this show. But I think this is the first one where you could say like, yeah, that's not even really jazz-adjacent. Although there's one track. We'll get to that much later that may have more of a connection than most people think. But you know, one of the things

that I was thinking about, one of the things that draws me to this album, and always has, is the sound of the album. It's one of the greatest produced albums, the sounds that they get on rumors here from Fleetwood Mac

is really, I was going to say unparalleled, but it's only paralleled by another album that came out in 1977, Steely Dan's Asia, which Rumors beat for the album of the year

at the Grammys. The thing that rumors has that Asia maybe doesn't have is just incredible backstory. Like the turmoil that was happening with this group of musicians with this band. Look at this band. I know. As they were...

Do you want to invite them in for dinner or do you want to call the police when you see them? First of all, like 70s rock albums, accoutrements are off the charts. So good. Yeah, incredible. Yeah. But like, this is basically a soap opera that's happening. Everybody's together. Everybody's breaking up. Everybody's philandering. There's loads of drugs

and drinking all over the place. So they said. So that happened. It's just, and it's all comes through in the music. What's that? Right? This is a rock and roll record. This is a pop rock record, I would think.

Soft rock? Well, maybe. Yeah, we're going to talk about that. But the lyrics of the album reflect all of the turmoil that's happening. People are breaking up and then writing songs about it. People are screaming at each other and then recording background vocals together. Like, it is an insane party that's happening here. In 1976, the members of Fleetwood Mac were set to record their tag.

and studio album, their second, with members, Stevie Nix and Lindsay Buckingham, who joined the band well into their tenure. They would spend the next three months living and working together around the clock to record the album that would become rumors in a place, kind of a shabby place, called the record plan near San Francisco. Sassolito. Sosolito, Sosolito.

Says you. Only problem was they were all in the middle of breakups. Some with each other. I know. And with other members of the band. So Christine and John McVee had recently ended their marriage. So the bass player and the keys and singer-songwriter, Christine McVee, had ended their marriage.

But John clearly wasn't ready to let go. In his memoir, engineer Ken Kallay said John would get drunk and lament his breakup with Christine following her around the room. Both Christine and John started dating other people during the recording of rumors. And bringing them around apparently. Yeah, they bring them in the studio. Randos.

Stevie Nicks and Lindsay Buckingham, who had known each other since high school, we're also in the process of breaking up. Their heartbreak and anger is encoded in the lyrics of many of the songs. Like, it's so obvious what's going on. They'd have screaming matches between takes. But as soon as the red recording light went on,

they'd put their fight on hold and they'd sing harmony. Even Mick Fleetwood was suffering the breakdown of his own relationship with his wife back home, who I think was like going with his best friend there or something? Apparently, yeah. And he had the two young kids and the whole thing. It was a lot. It was a lot.

Well, I mean, in spite of or because of all of this, turmoil, Rumors has become one of the best selling albums of all time, and Stevie Nick's Dreams, which is the second track on the album, would become their only number one hit as a band. And it's just an incredible document of like these amazing artists really at the peak of like 70s rock culture, like going through it as young people making music in the world. And it's really, it happens to be wrapped in the most beautiful, glossy sounding packaging of the album akin to Asia, where everything sounds absolutely gorgeous. Right. Yeah, it's the type of record that regardless if you like, hate

or love, or anywhere in between the actual musical content, the lyrics, the melodies, the harmonies, all these things that come together for the music, regardless how you feel about that, and I think it's an eminently approachable and lovable record, actually, musically. I mean, I think it would be hard to not love this record, but even if you didn't, I think it'd be hard to dispute that the sonic differentiation between this and almost everything. I mean, you mentioned Asia, which is kind of the same year. That's kind of another one that would come on. This is the kind of record that they, back in the day, and they still are probably putting on at the hi-fi store. High-fi full-fum up on Big Ben. Oh, you want to test out those B&W speakers? Let's put a little

rumors on. That's right. You could do worse than that. And I mean, just the... Especially if, like, a young Deborah Manus, my mom comes in the store, they're putting rumors on to sell to her. They're putting Asia on for less. Right, right, right. putting rumors on for Debbie. But it's kind of like not in spite of or irregardless to

the musical content, just the instruments, the voices are captured so beautifully and just such a grace and elegance to it. Well, let's start with the first track.

Like I said, all bangers. This is a banger, but this is like my seventh favorite song, the opening track. I think it's a good opening track, though.

Yeah. This is secondhand news. This is... Yeah. Well, this is with the fade-in and the fade-out on this track. Fade and fade out. It's an interesting way

to start the record. Lindsay Buckingham song. I think this sets the tone for the record, break them. But you can just hear the strumming of that guitar. These parts that are coming in and out. Production is amazing.

Snare drum there? Yeah. They would actually get ripped off like 10 years later in late 80s, like Fine Young Campbell's style. That's right. Go ahead. There's some cool little claps and weird percussion things, little subtle things that were added in there, too,

to give it the sonic palette. But you can also hear just the quality, again, Ken Kaleigh, the engineer here, just a master stroke with this album. heavily involved with the production obviously with the entire band. That's not to say that that doesn't come without a cost

because this album cost at the time like $1.2 million is how much they spent overall to make this album. It's got to be what, $10, $20 million in today's dollars? Something like that? It's incredible.

It's a lot of money. So as you can hear like... That's actually funny. It's really funny. Probably more than Asia, I'm guessing. Oh yeah. But like I said, so that's a very catchy you know, all of these songs were written.

They said, what if we made an album that was all singles? Like everything had the positive. And they were committed, even as they were all breaking up and cheating on each other. Right. And like getting crazy high all the time. But I think... Committed to making this album that's just like all-kill or no filler. Right, right. No skips. Right. High-level quality. So the record before this,

which I believe is the... Is the one they call the White album. The first one with Steve E Nixon. Yeah, exactly. That was a huge hit. Was that even bigger than that? this or is this bigger? This is bigger. Okay. That had Riannon on it, which is a great sign. Yeah, exactly. So, but that record was big enough, I think that it fueled in the way the record industry was at the time, especially for these kind of bands that had the kind of appeal, where it

almost became like, like, your next project is like an endless budget. So if you're willing to take the commitment, you know, what that can entail in terms of even with all, without the accessory stuff, but just like with the music. What would that be? Well, as you mentioned, the drug use, but I mean, and they also got into a bunch of engineering quandaries with some problems with the tape later on that costs a bunch. But it's just to say that like when you when you're coming off of a huge hit record like that and because of how much money these these albums generate and how the industry was set up at the time, that that's how you got to these crazy budgets. And so in the right hands of people committed to making a just what I think is just a fantastic

band effort. This was a band at this point. I know they've gone through a lot of changes in the personnel before this. But I mean, you have like just individual compositions, but a collective will to make something great. Yeah, there's one. song on the album that's written by all band members, but mostly it's by single band members, and it's kind of split between Lindsay Buckingham, Stevie Nix, and Christine McVee, who I think is underrated in general, Christine McVee. The personnel is just the band. It's John McVee on the bass, Lindsay Buckingham on guitars and vocals, Stevie Nicks on vocals, Nick Fleetwood on drums and percussion, and Christine McVey on keyboards, synthesizers and vocals. Let's get to the second

track. This is the one, right? This is like the most recognized song. This even this second track Dreams written by Stevie Nix it was their only number one hit as a band Fleetwood Mac. But then it climbed the charts again in September 2020 after an Idaho man

was made a like a selfie video of himself. Oh really? Longboarding down the highway. You don't remember this? Drink in Ocean Spray Cranberry juice listening to Stevie Nix or to Dreams. Oh, that's funny. Oh, man. Everything sounds amazing. We often like to

highlight how good the drums on all these sounds. So just real quick. That snare. Damn. Backrop vocals, killing on this record. The guitars, everything. And again,

I mean, I will put 1977 as the year that they perfected recording acoustic instruments. Like, those drums are just so beautifully recorded. So let's take a few things out here just to kind of enjoy these sounds. Let's check out some drums. How gorgeous is that? everything is just absolutely stunningly beautiful. Very simple. Isn't that crazy?

Yeah. The song itself is simple, but the lyrics are so spot on for that tension that happens in a relationship with, you know, especially when you're young, when you're like, is this working? Do I want freedom from this? I mean, she captures fights I've had in my life. Right. Perfectly. It's just, it's, and the feeling of it is so specific, and they nail it with the music, the production, the songwriting, again,

just a simple form, a simple palette of really great sounding chords, but just produced to a place that takes you somewhere. Man, it's such a, this is taking me back and just thinking about like, you know, like, not to be too boomers. Go for. We had a good boomer discussion a couple weeks ago. I said the word boomer more than I thought I was ever going to. We really leaned into it.

Yeah. No, but like a time when, like, one could listen to a song and feel and think about an emotion and like how it affects, how the lyrics and the sound in a very simple way affects us, but in a very high quality way, right? We're hearing all this stuff. It's so clear. It's so, I hate to say it like this, but in a lot of ways it's so different than the way pop music is put out now where everything is like,

you're consuming it in a lower quality environment in terms of like the bit rate and all this kind of, like everything's just kind of lower quality. It's coming faster. You're swiping through. There's a bunch of different emotions coming. Like this is kind of a breakup record or whatever, but even these individual songs.

There's actually a lot of uplifting lyrics and stuff in it too. There's a lot of poignant stuff. But it's like stuff that you could just sit around and like dream. I mean, it just takes me like the day of being bored where like your emotions or if you remember that. Remember being bored? And you wanted to talk to, you know, somebody about go on a date, try to do, whatever. Like, just you could concentrate on one kind of feeling, right?

It evokes a feeling. And so for me, it's like, you know, the record, all these great photographs, you know, the expressions. Like, it's very intentional. It's very quality. And, I mean, I know we got high quality stuff now, but I feel like the time of there being, like, one thing that people sort of rally around and connect on. And, you know, this record's out. For like a year, everybody's, it's on the radio and people are talking. about it and not just the other stuff's coming on the radio that's fantastic and then takes you

somewhere emotionally now it's like everybody's segmented in their little place and I know people young people are discovering these records which is great you talk about your daughter and stuff because there's so much there there's so much depth and interest yeah man totally agree and it just continues this record it just continues with hit after hit the third track might be one of my favorite I mean this is top two of this album this is lindsayingham's never going back again So this was his sort of answer to breaking up with Stevie Nix or them breaking up. And he admitted it's a bit naive, but you can hear that. Have you ever heard a guitar vocal duo that sounded quite like that?

It's multiple guitars. Yeah, I think it's four guitar tracks. Double vocals, probably, or some kind of delay put on it. Great songwriting. Yeah. And there's so much space in it, there's so much music happening. Yeah. Pretty bold for the third track album.

Yeah. Could you imagine something like this coming out now? This would be like put in the Americana section. Genre. Oh, this track has one of the great endings, too, to a pop track. Come on now. Just a few elements to it, and they keep coming back, and you're so happy that they're back. That's all we need.

Oh, I love that ending. You know, I mean, that is kind of a perfect track. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's two minutes long. There's like... So great. There's like four lines of lyrics.

Yeah. And it's just... No filler. Incredible guitar play. Beautiful song structure. Yeah. Beautiful melody. Yeah.

Just very simple. Yeah. Very simple. Never coming back. Yeah. It's really, really good. James Taylor's great at that too of like just putting in the elements. We should do some JT.

We should do a little sweet baby James now that we're hitting this side of things. And as great as that is and as natural as it sounds, I was reading on our notes here. I didn't know about this. They, um, Lindsay couldn't. and hear the click track through the and that's interesting to click on this because you we always think about oh during this time they were just playing and some people did and some of these tracks are but they're also like this kind of a track like I'm kind of an anti-click track guy yeah but I don't think this track would have been as great if you didn't have the click track you obviously you think so

yeah I mean it would have been fine and it would have but like there's a precision that that it gives like sometimes you don't say you need it but that can push it in another place it's a tool and it's a tool you don't use it all the time but apparently he could And here it's so the Ken Kallay, the engineer, duct tape. Also, it turns out duct tape, my dad was right. Duck tape works for everything. All right.

They duct taped his headphones to his head and put a beanie over so the sound wouldn't bleed through. Excellent. Because he needed it up so loud. Sam, how come you never do that for this show? And then Lindsay kept it on for about three hours while they recorded take after take.

When you need to go to the bath and they just unplug the headphones rather than take the whole thing off his head. hilarious. But I mean, that's what it is. Like that kind of commitment. So like, but what you get. get out of it. You'd never know that was a click. You never know he had a duct tape beanie

headphone thing and that it was an arduous three or four hours of just doing that. It just comes as this beautiful piece of art that can be consumed over and over again. So that's three tracks, Peter. That's three bangers in a row. And it doesn't stop. In fact, don't stop. Ask Bill Clinton about this one. I thought this was the biggest hip, dreams was. Yeah. Yeah. I always thought, because for a while, this was like, different, different. This is a, this is a, this is a, this is another is that what brought it back with Bill Clinton?

This was for like I think the Clinton Gore they used this song I believe this is a Christine McVee song Christian McVee underrated songwriter on this underrated songwriter on this

The only classically trained member of the man Yeah we just lost her a few years ago So how do you feel about Actually our buddy The Godfather Ripiato has a great video On Christine McVie

It's worth checking out Oh awesome Yeah We'll link to that in the notes So I think How do you feel about this groove? And I'm going to throw a little controversial And it doesn't feel the best.

It doesn't feel bad. The song feels great. But if you were to not even isolate, like first I'll preface it by saying Would you call that a shuffle? Yeah, it's a scuffle. It's a scuffle. A shuffle.

Because my feeling like Mick Fleetwood, I've always been like, is he the greatest drummer ever? No. But then like when you heard that isolated, you know, him isolated, I mean, he's playing the hell out of those drums. He's a good drummer.

A shuffle, though... This is a hard time, because think about the drummers that were doing that. Bernard Perny, Steve Gadd, you know. Nick Fleetwood, right? And I'm not saying English musicians can't play a shuffle at all.

I'm not saying that all. But there is something about it. I remember I didn't really feel a shuffle until, like, I think I saw B.B. King Live when I was like 18 or something. Yeah. And I was just there for the sound check

because I was playing at a festival that he was on in a different tent. Yeah. You know, but I'll never forget his drummer and I'm gonna, I forget who it was. I forget who was. who his drummer was in 1997. But warming up in Soundcheck with a shuffle,

and I was like, what the fuck is that? Like I knew what a shuffle was, from Art Blakey and all that, but I'd never heard anything. Like a blues show. It was like a train coming at you in that stage. Like, it was so powerful and felt so... Like, I started dancing at the sound check

because it felt amazing. Yeah, yeah. This doesn't feel quite like that. Right, but for this song and this track, because this was going to be one of my quibble bits, but in a way, how he's playing is perfect for this track, for the lyrics. I think so. Yeah.

This is the most soft pop on this album, too, by the way. Because it's a shuffle pattern. It's not bad, yeah, yeah. It feels great. Because if it had a, I don't know. Yeah, it could be a little bit deeper. Yeah. But it's definitely in the pocket, and it definitely, I don't know, man. And then, like, his cross

symbol stuff later on and stuff is so good, man. It's a great shuffle with a little bit of an English accent. We'll say that. But see, I beg to differ on the English. Okay, because you're saying you have to be... I'm not saying you have to be anything. I'm just saying things. are different. I was going to say,

Pino Pino can definitely play a shuffle. And a hard-ass groove. I'm not saying, make Fleetway can play a shuffle. I'm not saying it doesn't feel good. It's just different than what I know here in St. Louis. Right.

Okay. As if that wasn't enough, that's track four. Now we've got four bangers in a row. Basically four singles in a row, four songs that most people of, who are alive around, know those songs.

Then you got this. There's another Lindsay Buckingham song. Again, about his breakup with Steve E. Yeah. kind of an F-U to Stevie? It's a killing song. Is this a... I mean, it's a bit of a GMC commercial at this point, isn't it?

Ford F-150? A little bit. Yeah. Ah. Now, Fleetwood definitely had that. Yeah. The drive to September event ends August 31st.

Lexus, September to remember. That's right. But great song. Yeah. But then now we get to, I think, a really great part. He has said she was particularly hurt by the line. Packing up, shacking up is all you want to do. Oh, come on.

It says. You know. It says it right there on the paper. Sometimes breakups can be tumultuous. Yeah. Could you imagine making an album with the lyrics, with the person. Yeah. It's hard.

But it's still kind of raw. That's great. That's great. Okay. This is the next one is Songbird. Oh, this is a very interesting track. It's gorgeous track. This is by Christine McVee, and she's singing this.

This is beautiful. She's playing piano as well, obviously. Mucord. Yeah. The lovely touch on the piano. Incredible. She has a really good touch. Gorgeous voice.

So well recorded. So this was not recorded in Sausalito. They went over to, close by to Berkeley, to a hall that I've been to. I played at Zellerbach Hall. Oh, nice. I think the engineer had recorded, Ken had recorded Joni Mitchell there, I believe. Or maybe he recorded her somewhere else. But he liked that.

No, no, I think it was in that hall because he loved the sound in there. It was close by that Steinway 9 foot. I would say a little quibble. bit. I didn't notice that before. The piano's a little little attitude. A little attitude. Ken Clay said in his autobiography that he placed a dozen roses on her piano and arranged three colored spotlights

to illuminate them from above. To give her... Gotta get a vibe going. You gotta get a vibe going, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, but so it's got a different sound and a lot of people probably think that that's like an artificial reverb and stuff very much in the hall, I'm sure. The next track, the chain is the only Fleetwood Mac

song with songwriting credits given to all five members. It was cut together with and pieces of unfinished songs. This is also a bag. I mean, now we're at what? We're at track. Seven. Seven.

And this is seven in a row. Yeah. That are all... There's no... Incredible. There's no fillers on this record. I did confirm that. Ooh.

Ah, that's a bass drum sound. It's gorgeous. This is very, like, you know, country music, Western music, blues. Like, it was that time when that influence

on American pop music. That's the moment. Yep. Incredible chorus. Incredible hook. Great. And man, the harmony, so simple and well executed,

but well-placed. Discipline. There's a lot of discipline. Man, it makes me... For them being all coped up all night long, they play with a lot of discipline. That's a great band, man, man. It makes me want to join a band.

I don't. It's a whole different experience. Is there still bands? No. There's no more bands. There are, but they're just not... They don't have $1.2 million budgets. Were you ever in bands in high school?

Did you ever do like a rock band? A band? And she's got a band. She's got a band. She's an artist. That's the thing. It's just all artists now, just doing their own Instagram stuff.

But man, it brings me back to like playing with my friends in basements in high school and just like writing original songs. And not everybody's the greatest musician in the world. Not everybody's Tony Williams, but like you make this thing with each other and you're kind of on the team. It's like the sum of the parts is greater than.

See, that's the thing. Can I go a little bit? Go, do it. Take two minutes. Look, he's turning away from me already. Take two minutes. I give you a... No, no, no.

That's one thing that I feel like in jazz as jazz musicians, we often overlook. There's not a lot of great examples of that, great bands. But I'm going to throw one out there called the Oscar Peterson trio and would say that like,

as great as Oscar Peterson is, and I don't know there's different iterations. I'm talking about Ed Thigpan, Ray Brown. Oscar Peterson. Sometimes you get the right combination where the parts are add up to one plus one plus one equals 7,000 instead of three.

And I think in rock and pop, in country, and a lot of different things back, especially in this era, you're talking about the Doobie Brothers, you're talking about, you know, Steely Dan's a little different. Was like, was Steely Dan a band? It was two guys with like studio musicians around the next time. But I mean, you know, a bunch that I'm, you know,

similar like Stevie Wonder. Was Stevie Wonder band? He had a band that he toured with, but he made a lot of that stuff himself with bringing different. There's definitely bands now, especially even in the contemporary like jazz adjacent scene. You got Starkey Puppy, you got Vol's heck, you got all these people who do this kind of thing. And I think you had, I mean, like 90s, you and... You had the bad plus in the early 2000s, you know, that's a band.

But even like the MJQ, that's like a great example of how that can work, I think. Or weather report, the headhunters. Oh, weather report's going to show up on my wall for a little later. Just putting that out there. We're thinking alike. Thanks for the two minutes. I was well worth it. So that's the chain.

That was track seven. That is a great course. You're right. Like, that's one of those moments. And now we're out of singles. That's it. There's no more catchy songs. Oh, wait a second. Christine McVee has something to say about that.

Oh, yeah. And that's her on the clap, too. Yeah, killing on the cliff. So, incredible. So she wrote this. Not about the guy playing bass. No. She wrote about her new boyfriend.

Her newly ex-husband. He's got to play bass on it. But then she felt bad. And then it was a single. Yeah. It was one of four singles that they released. But she told you everyone that it was actually about her dog because she didn't want John to feel jealous.

You make love and fun, little doggy. But when John eventually found out, he didn't show up to the studio all day. Oh, it doesn't matter. They had a million dollar budget. Also, it's killing. Yeah. He's got to be like, man, that's so good, dude.

Damn it. She's getting all the publishing. Incredible song. That's number seven? Incredible song. That's number eight. Oh, that's right, because there's nine tracks. That's eight in a row.

That's eight in a row. Absolute bangers. And you know what's so cool about this? So think about this. You're listening to this on vinyl, right? Now we're onto the side B, obviously. But we're so thick into it. What normally used to happen on side two, not side B, side two.

Some dips. Yeah, some dips. And it was like that first, oh, so that was the chain. That first track on side two really was like make or break, whether or not you're even going to ever turn it over again. And it's the chain on this one? So they're doing okay. They're doing okay.

Yeah. There are a couple here. We're like, we're definitely going to skip over. We didn't skip anything. I don't want to know. and oh daddy, because we're going to go straight to the last track. Okay. Well, wait, are there 11 tracks or nine?

What did I say? They're 11. They're 11. Okay, that's right. So for time's sake, we're going to go to the last track, which is... I like O'Dady. Oh, Daddy's funny, but this is Gold Dust Woman. Okay.

Oh, yeah, this is... Oh, they do play a little major third in there. You thought it was just like a fifth chord? Yeah. This is a Stevie Nix song. This is literally about, like, Coke groupies. Yeah, in L.A. Yeah.

It sounds like that. The title, Gold Duff Woman. But the first line is... I mean, this is like takes you to L.A. Like, you know what that street smells like. The first line is Rock on Gold Duss Woman. Take your silver spoon and dig your grave. Like, I don't think she was appreciative of...

I know. But, man, I mean, to make something so ugly, so beautiful, lyrically, you know, that's some slick-ass lyrics there. Is that Dobro? Doeboro? I think that's a Daubroo. No, I don't think so. I got to see her play this live last year. when she was on tour with my daughter.

She put on a beautiful gold shawl. She had so many shawl changes. Yeah. It was like cape after cape after cape. Witchy cape after witchy cape. Oh, I love that cool. A little secondary dominant. A little first inversion.

A little G over B, baby. A little modal interchange going on there. Yeah, gorgeous. Man, so the interesting thing, like, I'd say throughout this record, it's very easy for jazzers. some jazzers to or classical musicians or whatever be like oh this is so such a simplistically harmonically simplistic record like the harmonies there's so much like one four five you know one down to the like it's just like oh that's easy stuff but there's like and it is very simple in terms of like you could learn this if you had a rudimentary you know or beginner's understanding of harmony on like guitar a piano you can play these chords but the placement of them the timing of them how they hook up with the melody and the lyrics and stuff I really think it's kind of genius.

Of course it is. You know, and then the repetition of something great that, you know, like, but not repeating it too many times, waiting the right amount of time and then coming back, like the construction of this is great. So like you don't need a whole bunch of fancy altered chords and all this kind of stuff. That one chord, which I did think was a moo at first, and upon listening to it, I'm like, it's almost a moo. It's moo-esque.

But like the G-C, it's actually a G7 over B, I believe, going up to the C, which is a normal movement, but it sounds so like otherworldly, the placement of it, the patience to get there and then to put it in there. Beautiful. Yeah. Okay, let's do some categories, Peter. What's your desert island track? Oh, you're moving along, man.

Let me find it here. We are moving along. It's all good, baby. Is that on page one or page 35 here? It is on page 35. Okay. Okay, I got never going back again. I love that.

Can we listen to that just a little bit of that again? please. That's what you're going with? Yeah. This is like, okay, even though most of the band isn't on this record? Yeah, it's just Lindsay Buckingham.

Man, this, I could listen to this every day the rest of my life. I would like to hear Peter Martin arrangement of this. I think he would kill it. That's another thing. I could totally play.

I think I might do that. I think that's a great call. I mean, there's honestly like pretty much every track on this album could be a desert island if you're into that kind of songwriting. This is my...

I'm a pop boy. What guy's I like pop music, and the vibe of this is just my speed. Yeah. Like, everything about it. That's great. I mean, it's iconic. Yeah.

Details. Details. Incredible. Okay, Apex moment. I think that what I thought was the mood chord, that chord I just pointed out, if you want to hear it again, I put it. I'll show it to you. This is gold dust, of course. So this is on the going to the course, the little segue part.

So we're in the key of D major, and then we go right to D-O-B-flat. G7 over B, two, C, and then back. That's what's brilliant. There's not, like, the rule of thirds really works good.

So, wait, sing it again. How's that go? It's very, like, bluesy, very kind of country. I don't even know what you call that, but, you know, it's got, it's got that vibe to it. My apex moment is the first chorus

of the chain where things kick in. Yeah. When the bass kicks in there. And then the fact that, V's just like, do-d-d-d-d-t. That's all we want. That's all the people want. Yeah, we could have been like,

do-bo-do-de-ba-de-ba-d-d-d-but-no. No, no need for all that. Bespoke Spotify playlist. What do you got? What did I do here? I already see yours is better. Albums that hurt so good? Or yesterday's gone?

Yesterday's gone is good. And albums that hurt so good is good. I like both of us. I have drugs, not hugs. That's great. Thank you. Yeah, very good. Up next, what do you got?

I got Carol King Tapestry, because I actually like to nominate that up next for us to have on the pod. We should do an episode on that. But also heavy weather, which came out this. Also, a great, I believe it was the same year, maybe a year off. But we were talking about bands, and that's exactly what I was thinking about, like, what is there in jazz or jazz adjacent that's a real band, especially around that time? Great, that's a great sign. I wouldn't put that on the level sonically as this in terms of the engineering. This is off the charts.

But great band record. great individual kind of coming together for the, for the whole, you know. What you got? I have Asia. Oh, well, that's a tough one. Just to hear them next to each other. Same year in competition with each other. Great call, Captain, obvious.

Thank you. Quimble bits, what do you got? Well, I mean, I really, I have two funny ones, but they're not, well, the first one is, we talk about the shuffle on Don't Stop. Yeah. But if we don't think of that as a shuffle, like, I've come around to that being, like, it is what it is. It is what it is. And I think it kind of fits perfectly on that track.

So I'm going to actually take that one off. But this is the funny one. Is there just too much cocaine and general drama on this record? I mean, that's what I had too. I had way too much cocaine, question mark. But actually, it worked. Well, okay, kids, first of all, don't listen to this. Don't listen to him.

Don't, we can neither confirm. This is not medical advice. This is not parenting advice. I'm not telling anybody to take drugs. I'm just saying, like, did it really make it worse? No. But I'd actually heard conflicting things, like some of the members of the group over the years, this is likely to happen all the time, where like we would have never, had it not been so

effed up the whole thing and all this wildness, that would have never happened. And then, I think it was Lindsay Buckingham. One of them basically said like, oh, no, we were going to get to this, even if everything was cool with everybody and no drugs or we just, it would have been quicker. Right. So there might have been some, yeah, yeah, you know, who knows. So we're going to put inconclusive on those quibble bits. I think so.

I don't really have much quibble bits with this. Whenever you have like an album that's that close to perfect, it's hard to say like, oh, there's a quibble with it. Okay, I have a quibble bit with you. You said, close to perfect. So it's not perfect. I don't think any album's perfect. No words of Bill Evans.

We'll get to that later. But I don't think any album's perfect. This is close, though, for a pop... If no album's perfect, then what is perfection? For a pop rock album in the late 70s with these, like, pop hits. Yeah. I mean, these three songwriters, like Christine McVee and Stevie and Stevie crushed this album so hard.

Yeah. And like, I just think it's, it's as good as you can get for this, for that kind of thing. Is it Asia for like jazz musicians? No, of course not. But I mean, I think, or Steve Gadd on it, so it couldn't be.

But there's something really special about this whole thing. Right. But I think, too, that it's like, I think all, like, records that even get into the category of fools like us talking about it, is that perfect or not.

Like, they're at that level. They would even warrant the discussion without people being like, you idiots. They might not agree, but everybody knows this album is talked about in that kind of vein. I do think there's a lot of luck involved, just like creating anything great. Like artists, like we make different things and like sometimes everything comes together. And I think when you have this combination of the band at this time and whether or not the breakups and the cocaine and all,

I mean, you can debate whether or not that. But everything happened with a huge budget so you could like take the time to get through all of that and then get over all the technological problems they have with the tape getting messed. messed up and all that and to still get the thing out there. And the pictures. Well, we're going to get to that in a second. But I mean, there's, there is, wouldn't you say there's some luck involved? Absolutely. Okay.

They did the work, though. A lot of luck involved. Yeah. Yeah. But they did do the work. Like, I hate to say it, but like, I don't know if this record could be made today. I don't know if the world of the record industry is concerned. I mean, someone could make it, but I don't think it could be record of the year.

Not for a million two. Well, definitely not. No, you could make a record like this for a lot less, actually. I know. But I mean, I just don't think it would have the kind of potential appeal it could even get out into the market. It's just so fragmented and like for people to rally. I don't know.

That's for another episode, right? Snobometer, what do you got? I'm going with the five because I'm totally paralyzed on it. This is not a snobby record. Right. But we're snobs and we love this record. So everything we like has to be somewhat snobby. I mean, are we music snobs?

Are you a music snob? Do you love this record? I do. Okay. Is it one of the most popular records of all? time. Yes. Okay, so that puts it a five. It's really inconclusive. I think it's a two. Is it better than K-O-B? So, it's better than kind of blue. Maybe. I'm changing. I had no. It's some days, you know what? Six days out of seven, I got kind of blue, but one day out of seven, I want this.

Is that, assume, am I so wrong for saying? Why are you laughing? Because how many maybies do you have? How many equaler maybes do you have? What do we say at the beginning? We're, we're pulling out straight bangers. So of course it's going to be a maybe with. K-O-B. There's no John Coltrane on it, so it's a no. Okutche-Monts, what do you got? No, but how far off of a no is it for you? Not far enough. Okay. Not far enough.

Jazz police! Not far enough for the jazz police. No, it's not far at all. It's like a different, it's a whole different animal, isn't it? I mean, it's just, it's like a pop record in the late 70s is different than 1959's jazz classic. You know what we need to do? We need to change the better than KOB.

Like, it needs to be categories for, like, if we're talking about records in the 70s, it has to be like better than Asia. Or we have to find some kind of a marker for similar. Is it better than... Because it's too much apples and orange. Asia. What's going on? What's going on?

Songs in the Key of Life. Love Supreme. Yeah. Are you mocking me now? No, no. Okay. Okay. Well, we can talk about this after episode.

We got people waiting on us in the episode. Is it better than K.O.B. Asia, what's going on? Songs in the Key of Life for Love Supreme. No. No. Okay. Not all of them. Okuchamance. Ten. So I had 9.5 because I'm still like, I don't know if there's a perfect, but I mean, I find no fault with this. This picture in particular, this is an iconic picture, and these are fun ones.

Obviously from the same session. Compositionally, like the looks on their face, that he looks like Marty Feldman in Young Frankenstein there. Is that Mick Fleetwood? I don't even know who's who. No, I think that's Mick V. Oh, that's McVee. Okay, but I mean, just like, Stevie Nix look Catherine looking away

that is McFleetwood yeah with the crazy eye I mean the hat like I mean the intentionality but then just getting the playfulness of this or maybe the hatred

of each other at that picture who knows but it's just like you could just sit and listen the record and look at the same damn photo and it'd be fun right I mean that photographer

had the best gig in the world yeah I think they got Ansel Adams in for this they just went out that whole session unbelievable and this one's almost better look at the four

Okay, so this is on the inside, right? Look at how many pictures, by the way, are from the session. We don't do that anymore. We definitely don't do that. But like the composition, the one, two, three, I mean, come on.

Amazing. Well, this was fun, Peter. Art director. A little bit different. S tier for the art director. S tier for the art director. So, that's it. We're at the end.

Everyone, our dear listener, thanks for listening to, you'll hear it. You'll hear it.