You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - Season Finale: Testing Our Show Against Our Own Rules

Episode Date: July 21, 2025

We turn our own categories back on ourselves! We're looking back on the past 20 epiosdes, which we're calling You'll Hear It Season 12, and ask:- What are our apex moments? - What are our desert island tracks?- Is season 12 better than Kind of Blue?! And - we hear from you, dear listeners. You sent in your questions on Speakpipe, and we answer them. Plus - look ahead at what's coming up next season.☎️ Leave us a Speakpipe New to You'll Hear It? Start with these apex moments:🔴 What's Going On - Marvin Gaye 🔴 Talking Book - Stevie Wonder 🔴 (Honorable mention) Voodoo - D'AngeloLarry Goldings' Jazz Organ Essentials:🟠 Listen to Larry's favorite organ tracks 🔵 Start your FREE TRIAL to Larry's new course 

I'm Adam Manus. And I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to the You'll Hear It podcast. Music explored. And today only recapitulated. Explored. And today only recapitulated. Brought to you by Open Studio.

Go to Open Studio jazz.com for, oh, your jazz lesson needs, including Peter, a brand new Hammond B3 organ course. By Keyes Legend, Friend of the Pod, Larry Goldings. It went down right her, as we say. It's right, thar. with a Leslie speaker right over there. And Larry just drop in an incredible playlist

of his favorite Hammond B3 recording. Fun course, the whole thing. Yeah, start your free trial today and you can check out the whole thing and then you can stay on if you enjoy it. Yeah, go to open soon at jams.com. So, Peter, it's the end of season 12. Now, it doesn't feel like 12 years?

I know. Hey, hi-five. 12 years. No, we've done this show seven years, but somehow we've had 12 seasons. You know what? I don't like to say, why are you telling people about the seven years?

That puts me back on my heels. That makes it like, we should be better. We should be better. We often will just arbitrarily pick dates. And now we've picked these 20 episodes or so to take a little bit of a pause, recapitulate what we've done. I think it's exactly 20.

We're going to start fresh. So don't worry. We're not taking a big break like we did earlier in this year. We're going to keep going with this. But we just wanted to like, we've had a really good time this season. Yes. We put a lot of energy into the pod. We've totally reformed.

how we're doing it. We've heard a lot of great feedback from you, our dear listeners, so thank you for that. New words this year. Lazy Suzette? Lazy Suzette. We weren't saying that last year. We were not. Yeah, we got a couple of new things. I've got some fun statistics about this season. How many times we used bespoke? How many albums were actually better than K.O.B. And our average combined snowmometer score. So we've got a bunch of fun stuff coming up later. And we're going to turn our own categories around on our own show.

So we're going to pick our desert, our ultimate season 12 desert island track of all the episodes we've done recently. We're going to get outside of the fishbowl and look back in. That's right. Our apex moments, a bunch of those fun categories. But, Peter, to start,

something we haven't done since this new season, and that's here from our deer. You'll hear it listeners. So we have a speak pipe set up. That's a word from the past. You can go to you'll hear it.com and leave us your speakpipe. A little known feature.

A little known feature. And so we had a bunch that were lined up. So some of these, I apologize, are from like five months ago. But we're getting to them now. We call those evergreen questions and comments. We do. So we have some fun ones lined up

and some fun things planned for. So we're just celebrating season 12. Yeah. It started with, by the way, can you name all of the episodes this season? I can name the first one. Which was? Asia by a little group called The Dan.

We started this season with Steely Dan's Asia. And then we did Brad Meldow's Largo. Also known as Brad Maldow. Then we did an episode called Six Songs to Turn Coltrane Curious into Coltrane converted. That sounds like a Peter Martin marketing title. But that was all about that 1963 year

with John Coltrane. Then we did the meters. Then we did Bill Evans' trio. Then Michael Jackson's off the wall. And Miles Davis is my funny Valentine. The 10 most important years in jazz with Lewis Armstrong. Herbie Hancock's greatest era, the headhunters era. How did you say his name?

Louis Armstrong? No. Herbie. Herbie Hancock? Yeah. Okay. That's good. Was that not right?

It sounded weird, but I like it. We did Facing You from Keith Jarrett. We did Stevie Wonder's Talking Book, which we'll definitely be talking more about today. Well, I sense a little bias in your tone there, sir. We did a little, which swings harder, guitar or drums with the Oscar Peterson trio. Drums.

Chick Korea's electric band album, controversial, but actually really beloved episode at this point. We had a guest, Kirk Hamilton, from the Strong Songs podcast to talk about Tower of Power's self-titled album. We did The Love Supreme Soul Music, Marvin Gaze what's going on. Miles Davis's birth, the cool, Joshua Redmond's Spirit of the moment.

We did... We're all over the place. Here's to Life by Shirley Horn. We did DeAngelo's Voodoo. We've done Larry Golding's Jazz Organ Legend Reveals favorite tracks. And then we did, of course,

John Colterian's giant steps which just came out last week, so we probably won't be talking too much about it here because we don't remember it if we're being honest. But those were the album... I remember it.

Those were the albums that we are, that all of this is being considered today. So before we get to some of those statistics, let's talk a little bit to our dear listeners. Okay. Hey guys, good pod. I'm new to the pod. You'll hear it is funny in my world because that's usually the last thing we say before a train wreck on stage. If you don't know the song, you say, oh, you'll hear it. and then it just becomes a train wreck.

Where did the name for the pod come? I'm just curious. Same place. Thanks guys. It is exactly the same thing, Mike. Yeah, that's how the name of the podcast. Oh, that was the whole question. That was the question is where was the name of the podcast,

but he didn't put it together that his experience of you'll hear it is exactly why we named the podcast what we named it. What is that? Akram's Razor where it's like the most obvious answer is the answer. Although I would say my experience with this is not always a train wreck, maybe hopefully depending on the level of players you're with maybe 25% train wreck after you say you'll hear it it's not going to be perfection if somebody doesn't know the tune but i think it it really encapsulates the the aspirational ethos that we have as jazz musicians in terms of being like you're not going to be

like let's play beethoven seventh and you got a whole symphony like where's the music oh don't worry you'll hear it here we go you know that's not going to work but for jazz musicians we will if several of the people on stage especially know it and maybe one doesn't it's like I'm not sure about that I've heard it before but I don't really know what key is it it be flat but don't worry you'll hear it one two one happens all the time yeah

and what would you say the train wreck versus beautiful things happening or something in the messy middle it depends on who's hearing it right like some people are really good at picking stuff up and some people it makes them nervous or whatever some people are comfortable not knowing

yeah and just let's see what happens And if everybody's comfortable with that, it's going to be great. I love to set the bar low and then I exceed expectations easily. So we can consider it. Okay. Our next question. Hey, guys. This is Hogi von Devious.

I wanted to say I'm a huge fan of the podcast. Hogi Von Devious. I love all the insight and energy you guys can bring to the show. It's so much fun every week. My question I had for you guys was how often do you find yourselves surprised by the music? As you guys get older and listen to more and more, do you feel like you're continually intrigued and surprised by music? or you feel like you've heard most of the same stuff.

I know as I listen more, I can find more nuance and more intention and solos, but I was wondering what your guys's take was what your guys's take was on it. Thank you. That's great. Yeah, you know, there was a West Wing. Remember the show the West Wing? Yes. It was a West Wing episode.

So President Bartlett, played by Martin Sheen, was really into classical music. He really loved composers. And he would, he famously hated modern composers. He hated modern music. He just thought it was an oxymoron. He didn't like it. And there's one episode where he goes to the Kennedy Center and sees a premiere of a new piece by a modern composer.

He's complaining the whole way there. And he's really moved by the work. And on the way back, he said, Martin Sheen's amazing in that show. And he goes, I didn't think I could be surprised by music anymore at my age. And I think there is something to that. It is harder to get surprised by something. Even like I was just watching

all these incredible young pop stars that are on the scene right now. Like there's like this really this incredible group of young women specifically who are making incredible pop music. And all of it, I like I like, I like, I've heard versions of this. Yeah. Throughout my life. I've seen this movie before.

It's very good. And I see why kids really like it. Yeah. Like younger people really connect with it. And I can appreciate that. But like I'm not, it doesn't surprise me in any way at all. And I feel like that just does happen more and more. However, to Hogi von Devious, by the way, incredible.

To Hogi Von Devious. Incredible fake. It's got to be fake, right? It must be. Well, I hope not. But to his point, like, there are different things that start to, like, reveal themselves as you have more experience listening to music where maybe, yeah, you're not as like surprised and there's less stank faces. Like, woo, woo, but there is more. I don't know.

We've had a lot of those. We've had a lot of them. But there is more appreciation of some details. And you can, especially as you, as a musician, when I can really hear. hear the risk that the musician is taking and the craft that went into what they're making and the work. Sometimes like you hear something and I can be like, man, I know the process that this must have taken would have been like incredible to do. And I really respect that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think that I would agree that there is less of that sort of innocent

first time delight. You know, like when I listen to Giant Steps now, like what I'm, there isn't that like, oh my God, my world has been shifted. It's like... Or anything like Giant Steps. You've already heard Giant Steps. Exactly, exactly. But there's a certain level of magnificence to it. It's still there.

That's still there. That... I mean, most of the records that, like, we listen to. So it's more situational. Like, I think as musicians, we tend to get separated from the importance of the situation with which we first experienced music or, like, the nostalgia factor to it, right? But we actually experienced that just as much.

So whereas something like Giant Steps, if you're a musician, it might be like, oh, that's the first time, like, that my mind was blown with something that I thought was unachievable in terms of like melodically exploring this crazy harmony. But then it started to click and it took me down this journey of inspiration to practice or whatever. Whereas for the listener, it was like, oh, that was my second date with the love of my life. They played that song. I heard it at a cafe in Paris or whatever. But I think that so like, for instance, here's to life. had heard that record and we had talked about it, but your experience with it was different than me. So when we played it, to be able to experience that with you and to see you be like kind of

your mind blown for the first time. Oh, I got emotional. Yeah. And like, and that took me back to when I first heard it and like, but it also reminded me of times that I got to like see Shirley do those arrangements and those songs live. So it's like, it's like revisiting these beautiful memories. Like that never gets old to me. That's a great example though, too, of what I was talking about for me. So that's an album I've heard before and I definitely heard it when I was younger. And it did not hit me like how it hits me now. Yeah. And it is because I can appreciate the nuance.

I, you know, I understand what it took to get, for Johnny Mandel to get that orchestra to do what it was doing. Yeah. And for Shirley Horn to sing it the way she was singing it when I was 19. I had no idea. I had no context or any of that. And now having heard a bunch of music and hearing that, it's like, oh, well, that's the best. You know what I mean?

Like I can, but it's not surprising. Like, it's not like, oh my gosh. My mind's blown. I haven't heard. Well, you know it's great. You might not have experienced in that way. But I can appreciate the details a little bit more. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, and I think, too, one thing that has maybe surprised or delighted me is some of these records, well, even one, you know, that we did this season, the live of the Vanguard Redmond thing that I was on, is like, it feels like just yesterday, but when you started adding up the years, you're like, no, that was 30 years ago. And so I start to think about it. It's kind of like looking at the clothes, like the clothes we were wearing didn't really hold up, but I think the music does. I don't know they're back. That's true. Maybe that's right. But I mean,

Willyware. Shout out Willyware. Hey, Zee Kavarichi. I found some Zee Kavarichie's at a vintage store the other day. Really? Yeah. So the oak tree's not considered a vintage store anymore? I don't know if it exists.

But the idea of like what still sounds good or what? And that's like maybe not the best example. I'm thinking like, well, like here's to life. You know, that's about that. It's a little bit older. But like what about it? it's like a bottle of wine. Like, is it aging well?

Is it past its prime? Or is it going to be this great Bordeaux that potentially goes on forever and you're never going to want to open? The cool thing with music, we can open it whenever we want. But like, what's the season of our life? Like, for us with the podcast, like I feel like sometimes when we're presenting some of this music, we usually both know it on some level, but there's always kind of a given, like secrets.

You've talked about, are we going to do secrets? Well, we kind of already did it with Herbie's runs. But we can, I feel like anything that we've done in an era, we can revisit the individual album. So we will definitely revisit those Herbie Headhunter's era. But these, right, like, see, as soon as I even say it, like, Adam takes on a whole not, like he takes on his level of authority and just joy. He's like a little kid, but he's like a professor,

you know. But so it's fun to experience those ones that we know we both have this, like, what feels like a very personal affinity. I hate to tell you this, there's hundreds of thousands, not millions, that have that same connection with that record. But like, I think for us together on a lot of these things, like a giant steps, where we're probably kind of both

equally, like, in awe of. But no, it, but also like we're not going to be like blown away. Oh my God, did you hear what train? Of course it's great, but we've been there. We're big boys on that. But for a lot of this stuff, we have so much fun sharing with the audience. Like we're in here now by ourselves, but it's like we know somebody out there has not, has never heard what's going on. You know, somebody hasn't heard. We've, we had comments about that. Yeah. Which is a beautiful thing. I mean, like some of this stuff, I mean, most of the stuff I've heard, but they're very much like could be that. The Lewis Armstrong, In a lot of ways, that was the biggest surprise for me

and going back and being like, I mean, you talk about stuff that's held up and elevated, you know, from the first time I heard it, and you might say, well, that's old. Well, it's like, no, I heard that 40 years ago for the first time. That was actually moments of surprise for me, too, because I'm not steeped in that whole era of music,

and I was blown away by your selections. You had such a great... That was the 10 most important years of jazz episode where you went through Lewis Armstrong's early career, and you could hear his evolution of the music and him basically like outlining what our musical language is now that we're currently living 100 years ago. It was incredible.

Yeah, incredible. That was fun. Okay, next, this is from Mateo. I know you guys have previously spoken about alt jazz, but I wanted to know your opinions on certain blue note, 2025 kind of new artists coming into the jazz game

like James Francise or Joel Ross Jeremy Dutton some of the jazz that they do is inspired around new jazz

Prague jazz and that sort of thing I wanted to know your opinion if you guys were familiar with these artists and yeah You remember our old We made a whole alt jazz episode

Did we? Yeah, yeah, yeah On the new jazz underground Guys Oh, right, is that considered alt jazz? You coined the term Oh, I did? So yeah.

Honestly, this whole speak pipe was just an excuse for me to play James Francis James Francis. Because I love... I thought it was James Francis. James Francis. Franks.

Okay, I think. His album... He's killer. Pyrist Form, 2021, and this is 713. He's one of my favorite modern keyboardist, pianist. He plays with

everybody from Yeba to Pat Mathini and has his own projects and this is his like I said 2021 Blue Note album Piers For him this is 713 Just check out a little bit

of this man He does this really cool thing Sometimes he's got this Yamaha upright And he'll put Because it's like midied out Or whatever Yeah

He'll put a ring mod on it It's incredible Yeah Sounds you've never heard of On a piano Kiefer does some cool stuff with an upright Yeah

Yeah These Yamah uprights I saw some at Nam They're incredible You can do a bunch of cool stuff with it. But, yeah, James Francie's amazing. Amazing, amazing. Joel Ross, too.

So I'm here last year. Yeah, I love Joel Ross. Yeah, and it's starting, like, Blue Note is definitely finding its voice in terms of, like, there's nothing homogenous about it, but there is a style. I don't know if it's all jazz. There is a voice with it. We should actually do next season, maybe an episode on Modern Blue Note, the Modern Blue Note, like, lineup. We should probably do something past the year 2000, because I don't know that we've done that this season, have we? The year 2000 is our, to date, cut off.

Cut off. And that is 25 years ago. Yeah, but the thing about it is, too, it's like I feel weird about saying any record. I think a record made in 2025 has the potential to be, I mean, look, look at the things we're doing, talking books. We like to talk about classics for sure.

Yeah. And so. Verified, stood the test of time. That's right. That's right. Not just verified on Instagram, but verified. But, you know. But yeah, that would be fun to get into some of that stuff

because I want to listen to it more. I've heard some of it. of it, but those are great artists. I love Joel Ross. I love James. I love Kiefer. Joel Ross on an open studio course on Jeffrey Kieser's Keyes to Composition course that we have here. The making of that album, Joel's playing on that. Incredible vibraphonist musician.

Man, music is happening today. People talking about jazz is dead, man. I know. And we are definitely like a legacy podcast talking about a lot of old. We'll get into the breakdown of the decades that we covered this season. Right. And how many of them were the 70s? Dude, the 70s felt like just yesterday to me. I don't know what you're talking about.

My dad was just telling me a story last night about the, did he say the late 40s? Oh, that's great. I was like, damn, dad. How old are you? Damn, dad. This is from Alan. Hello, Adam and Peter. This is Alan from Vancouver, another Canadian listener.

Shout out Vancouver. I was wondering you could give some examples of recordings where musicians are behind the beat. ahead of the beat and right on top of the beat that would be helpful for me thank you and of course love the podcast thank you Alan

not only will we do that for you but we will do three examples of behind the beat on the beat and ahead of the beat from the same musician and this is all from one podcast episode I don't know what this is but I know what it is it's from our beloved Oscar Peterson

oh okay yeah I can say voodoo that's an easy one oh that is an easy one to do yeah everything is placed Somebody's ahead and somebody's behind. So we'll start with behind. This is Oscar Peterson solo from Bags Groove on the Night Train album. Ooh.

So this will be him playing behind the beat. And Ray Brown was just playing behind the beat, which is rare for him. Oh. So you can hear it here. Listen to how he's ending these phrase. Check this out. Calibration. Did you hear that?

One more time. Just letting it float behind the beat. That's a classic example. Actually, his whole chorus there was just a little. bit laid back, right? And I would just say in that, to me, Ed Thigpan there, at that passage, right on the beat,

right on it. Ray, a little ahead of the beat, because he's asking for examples. Ray was always a little ahead. Right, except coming out of his solo, he was a little behind. So it's like, what is the music need in terms of the other things that are happening, you know? This is from Oscar Preetzen Trio Plus One with Clark Terry. This is Brotherhood of Man. Now you're going to hear everybody kind of like right down the middle. Check it out.

Just right there. Right. Right. Sort of like mid-quick tempos. Yeah. I would say the hi-hat might be just slightly ahead. The Oscar's on. Yeah, Oscar's right on.

There's no laying back here. So that's an example. Clark is right on, pretty much the whole way. That's an example that Brotherhood of Man is they are like locked in. And then the last example comes from early Oscar Peterson. Excuse me. Early Oscar Peterson. Oscar Peterson.

Oscar Peterson trio with the guitar. This was from our what's swing and heart. or the guitar or the drums episode. This is what is this thing called Love from Oscar Peterson plays the Cold Porter songbook. And I mean, the whole trio through this whole track is just riding the razor's edge

on the front edge of the beat. Check it out. Where are you going, right? I know. But if everybody's ahead, aren't they all together then? Yeah, this is like I said, the whole trio is pushing on the...

Sometimes this happens where as a unit, you're on the front foot. Right. Even there, Oscar's pushing. Yep. And then the way he's accenting the little bit in the left hand, even if it's not actually head also, it makes it feel even more because it's like anticipations, right?

All those like, yeah. So there's our example. And then where he's accending it to, so it's like the placement of the notes and then the placement of the accent. It's a super sophisticated way to, and it's never right or wrong, but like how do you put these things together? How do you react?

How do you play different as they often did there when you don't have drums? One thing I wanted to highlight, And this isn't a hard or fast rule, Alan, but you might have noticed that the example where Oscar's behind the beat was a real slow. Right. And he was using the width of the quarter note in that sense

to like flex the time backwards. Yeah. The Brotherhood of man, bu boom boom boom boom boom. Right in the mid of tempo, like one, two, three, four. It's not fast, but it's not slow. Yeah. And they are locked in and right in the middle in that.

And then the what is this thing called love? Quite bright. Yeah. And what you don't want to happen, on a bright tempo is pullback. That is the worst. So all three musicians are pushing to the edge

of the front of the beat. Right. And it's very effective at just like... I mean, it feels like you're going forward. You know, it feels like you're leaning and falling forward, which is... In general, better to rush than a drag. We don't like to say that, but it's true.

But if you're going to lay back something like this... Oh, do you like this track? I love this track. Again, bag screw from Night Train laid back there. And like Figpan, there is no...

anticipation. He's right in the middle, but it's like, come high, it might be just slightly. It just gives the freedom for Peterson to be like, yeah, I'm a stylized the shizzling out of this. Next up is a speakpipe from friend of the show, Zach Wolf. Oh, what's up, Zach? Hey, Adam. Hey, Peter. It's your buddy, Zach from Houston. Hey, this morning, I was listening to the new release from the Ranford Marsalis Quartet. Specifically, the tune long as you're living yours. I was listening to Joey Calderazzo's just great piano solo, and it sounded so good.

I wanted to text it to my son. He's a drummer. But when I went to text it, I was looking for the right emoji to go with it. And I realized there's no stank-face emoji, at least not on my iPhone. I couldn't find anything. that really fit.

So anyway, I have checked with my counsel at Debassier and Debassier, and they inform me that there is no trademark registration for a stank-face emoji. So I think the field is wide open. This is a great opportunity for y'all. I think you should get on it. We have the same counsel, Zach. Thank you. Anyways.

Debossi and Debossier. What you think about the absence of the stank face emoji? I usually use either the face where he's like freaking out, turning in pale, or the one where they're shivering cold, right? Those are great, though. They're not perfect, but they get the job done. You understand that I think it's ice cold. But there could just be like that.

The hands? Yeah. Or not the hands. What's the one where it's like not the clap? This one's controversial because I always see that as, let's high five it, man. High five it? Yeah. High five, but it's prayer hands.

No, it's a high five. But that's not really stank face either. That's more affirmation. I mean, you could use, like, heart eyes. It's like, I love this, but that's a little. But, yeah, there needs to be some kind of like... Zach's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It'd be kind of, like, this could be the template. Let's take a still of this. No, nobody's got better stank face than Peter Martin. Everybody... I can't just do it on command. Any of your shorts. Wait, put the C-JM, but, I mean, the Oscar Peterson back on. Oh, let's try it.

Woo! There it is. Yeah. All right. Any excuse to play that again. Thank you, Zach. Yeah, we'll get on that. We'll send our art department.

Shout out Houston. Shout out Vancouver. We have some, man, like our best listeners are in some cool places. For sure. Well, Houston's approximately 98 degrees there every day of the summer, but cool otherwise. We got kind of a two-parter from Andy. It's our last question here. Adam, Peter.

This is Andy from Texas. longtime listener, first time caller. Hey, I was just wondering if you guys would talk about mentorship and how you guys have mentored each other and kind of how you guys met and I guess like what you have learned from each other and your mentors and how to be a good mentee as well. Thanks, guys. Love the show. Thanks, Andy.

Just a little follow up there. Hey, guys, Andy again. Also, if you could tie meditation into this somehow, that would be wonderful. I know you both are into that. I mean, and if we could talk about our diets, that would be great as well. If we could talk about rich rolls,

no, I mean, that was smart. I think Andy was probably like, oh, wait. Our wellness routines, our sleep, hygiene. He made the second call. He's like, wait, how do I make sure to get Adam's attention? Oh, yeah, can we? Tide it with meditation.

We're about to move from the jazz osphere to the manosphere, Andy. You got put on the top of the list for that one. Yeah, so mentor, mentee. I think this, like, specific to within being a musician, I think it's a little bit, unfortunately, becoming a lost art, you know, or not, like, top of mind for a lot of young musicians.

I know it was super important for me when I was younger. I know it was for you. We've talked about, you know, various mentors. We even had a couple sort of the same, you know, at different times, Willie Aiken's. Yeah. I think for jazz musician, a lot of times it becomes like, who is an older player?

An older, sometimes they seem old. They're like 23 years old. But when you're 15 or 16, you're like, oh, my God, they've got it all figured out because they know more than you. So, like, there's mentorship from the stage. I would say Betty Carter in a lot of ways, although I only play with her for like nine months, like just she mentored us. Like, she was such a good mentor by that point and she was so experienced with it.

And I think I was pretty good mentee. I mean, I definitely made some mistakes, but I was open. That's the main thing. And I was lucky and in the right situation. I think of that. Went Marcellus, for sure, huge mentor to me from when I was young, until I turn things around and now I mentor him. Yeah.

Right. Yeah. Awkward. I honestly think it's one of the most important relationships you can have in your life. Like, I've always had, I've always collected old dudes, like men who are older than me, and some women, but mostly men who are older than me and have qualities that I aspire to, not just in music, but like I have friends who are not musicians, but I go and like, we hang out at their house, me and Heather, take the kids and we hang out. and they're, you know... Oh, they think you're just a friend. We are friends. They don't know you're taking advantage of them for information.

I mean, I think... They're going to listen and be like, oh, I thought Adam was my friend. You have mentees as well. You have me as your mentee, but like, there's a two-way street there, too. Like, it's great to have mentees for you. Like, it feels good to think about how you're teaching these things or talking about things or how you do things.

And so, but for me, man, like, hooking up with you here with Open Studio has changed my entire life and my entire musical trajectory. And in fact, and Andy, you probably wouldn't be surprised, but everybody who works here at Open Studio gets better as a musician.

Like a trio with Bob DeBoo, Caleb Kirby on drums. The Saturday played a clinic with Joel Fromm, great tenor saxophonist. And I had two people come up to me after the show and comment on how great Caleb sounded. They were like, man, Caleb's always sounded great, but it's like another level now. And I'm like, yeah, he's working for Open Studio.

He's over Peter Martin's shoulder all the time. He gets to work with A. DuRabero and Gregory Hutchinson and just be around these masters. And I think there's been nothing better for my playing. And I know a lot of people that are around here, around you, than just being over your shoulder hearing you talk about music, hearing you talk about your level of quality that you're aspiring to and the standards that you hold all of us here to. like it's very, very inspirational

and I know it's changed all of our outlooks on that. So it's not going to be easy for you to take that in, but you should take that in. You're a mentor, not just to me, but everybody here as far as like the things that we choose to do and how we choose to do them. And that's a really important thing. And I know you have even developed mentors

as the leader here outside of here. For sure, for sure. And, I mean, the mentorship definitely goes both ways between us, too. I mean, I think there's a natural thing I mean, basically, I'm just the oldest one around here. Like, that's always an advantage, you know. There's got to be some advantage to that. Yeah.

Or else why do it? Yeah. So, I mean, there's an experience level. Yeah. Yeah. But I think, too, is like, I look at a lot of it. I think mentorship on it, especially for like really smart accomplished folks like you and like the whole team here, especially you, because like there's, there's, we've never

had, I appreciate you say it. I've mentored you, but it's never been like Adam. Let me show you how to finger this scale. That's not mentorship. I know, I know. That's like teaching. That's what, but some people need that. But I think like what I've got and what I like to always pay for that I got for kind of like what you talk about like with quality and stuff like that and staying curious. It's like the person, the mentee has to have that curiosity, that growth mindset. Correct. Like if I see that with someone and then it's easy because it's just like, oh, have you ever thought about this? Or it's like, oh, you're really good. You're at level eight. And you thought that was 10. Can I interest you in the level 11? It's not like you have to, all you have to do is to show them. that it's there. It's there.

And then if somebody's interested, they're like, oh, okay, wow, I just didn't make it around the corner to see it. 100%. And that's what I was providing, continue to be provided. And then it gets, it's fun because then you have to go seek that out. Yeah. You're like in different areas. It's like, okay, how do I get that in this part of my life?

Then I'm not, I'm comfortable. I know that I can do, but I want to go next level. Sometimes you can figure it all out yourself, but it's fun to have other people help. Yeah, I would say any aspect of your life that you want to, like, grow in. Find someone who's doing. doing it in the way that you respect and that you want to emulate. And then the only rule about being a good mentee is to show up and respect the mentor-mente relationship.

Right. So be open. Be open. Be curious. Don't get in your mentor's way with things. But just be, like, you almost have to be their, you have to be their apprentice and be available to them in a certain sense. But just like pay attention.

For me, it's not like, I don't play like you, nor could I. and I've stolen a lot of us, still more than I probably cared to admit, of your music, like of your ideas and things like that. But it's not like intentional even. It's just because I'm around it. And I hear you sometimes play stuff I play, and I'm like, that's crazy.

But like, I think it's just the exposure. But then also the most important thing is not you being like, hey, like, I mean, I can and do call you for advice and we talk about big moves and things like that, and you're always incredibly generous with that. But it's more just like watching you navigate the world. world, right? I learn a lot of lessons because you're seven, eight years ahead of me.

You know what I mean? In the journey here on the path. And so I get to see you move through things that I know, okay, my kids are going to be gone in four, five years now. You know what I mean? And I've seen Peter and how. I've prepared a PDF on Kelly. Yeah.

On how to endure your first colonoscopy. I'll be sharing that with you a few years ahead of you. I just had that. No, I remember when I got readers, you were like, when I needed glasses, you were like, get progressives. Yeah, change your life. Skip over the real. I was like, all right, great.

But it's little stuff like that that is very, very valuable. Yeah, for sure. And then as far as the meditation thing goes, I know you and I both have different practices with this kind of thing. It's a deeply personal and deeply important part of my daily routine that I practice

just being present in my body, being present in the world, and letting go of the things that my ego wants to hold on to and try to improve. and so I'm constantly working on that part of me. In fact, it's probably the biggest, as you get older, you kind of realize that letting go, that softening, that being aware of what's happening in the moment

is by far the most important thing because you can design a really great life and as you age and you get successful or whatever, you can have all these great things. But if you're not able to be with them... Yes. And be with yourself. And be with yourself.

You're just, time is just slipping by. Yeah. And then you're just like racing towards your deathbed, you know, without even stopping to appreciate the things. So the more that I, just for me personally, the more that I'm able to like practice actually like being with what is right now. The better musician I am, the better father I am the better colleague I am at work. And it just improves my quality of life across the board. Yeah. So well put.

Yeah. And I would say too that one thing about. especially as you get older, that for me is really exciting to be a part of that's available to us with social media, with YouTube. Like, we look at all, you know, the dangers that are obviously very real,

especially for young people and older people. Everybody always is like, oh my God, young people are, these phones are so addictive. I'm like, that's for all of us. That isn't just, I mean, we, in theory, have more self-discipline and kind of foresight and experience if you're a little bit older,

but not necessarily. but I would say that like the upside to this exposure is that we have access to many mentors, right? So I think when you're younger, especially, it's so important to have an in-person personal mentor. And if you can continue to have that, it's great. And look, my father and my mother too, like is like, and I still have them. And it's like in a lot of ways, like my dad will say stuff.

Now, you know, like when you think with your dad, when you're kind of like, you're getting older, I've got some thing. And then he'll just say one little thing where it's kind of like, yeah, I'm like, damn, he still got me, you know. In that regard, we both have won the lottery as far as like mentors of having our parents around is incredible. For sure. For sure. But I do think as you get older, like in this goal, I look at it as a golden age of like social media and access is like I can have somebody like Rich Rolls. They're like, I know Rich Roll very well. He doesn't know me very well.

It's a paris social relationship. It's a pair of socials. He hasn't paired up with me yet. But it's like I feel like he's been a mentor to me. You know what I mean? Which is weird. But if you're at the right point of life, I think when you're younger, it's that's a little bit of a dangerous thing though because you're, You haven't navigated, like, actual mentorship.

But, like, you can pick up these different things from these thought leaders in a way that I love that. And I've profited so much from that for my own knowledge. And I mean, you talk about meditation. We've had good mentors that, you know, become paratrocial. Dan Harris, am I looking at you a little bit, you know? But I think to be able to have that access. And then for us, too, is, like, I think that's probably the biggest mentorship that we do, especially you for tens of thousands of pianists and just musicians.

out there through our content and through your influencer status as a harmonic influencer. Honestly, it's one of the biggest things that I think hold people back from just enjoying the process of playing music is their own anxiety and their own whatever cocktail of regrets and fears around playing and growing sometimes, like fear of changing. Yeah. And I do consider it like more important than even showing you a cool drop two voicing is like allowing you to know that there's no finish line to this, that there's no day where you just wake up and you're a great musician. And that it's a struggle, even for something like you, that we see that in the comments this week. People like, oh my God, seeing Adam struggle at the B3 gave me hope.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I have to fight my own perfectionism of just like, no, I got to allow myself to be vulnerable and show that I'm very much not very good at the B3. And it's pretty obvious. But I think it's... How'd the gig go, by the way? It was okay. We just played Autumn leaves 12 times.

No, but I think it's an important part of our mission here at Open Studio to realize for people that this is not about a quick fix of I got to just do this, this, this, and this, and then I'll be great. It's more about like, how can I live a musical life? How can I incorporate the music and the art that I'm passionate about into my daily existence and the things I do every day? Yeah, absolutely. Okay, let's get to some fun. Let's talk about us some more. I got some fun. I love talking about myself.

Thank you, Andy, for the really. Shout out to all the speakfacts. And the other ones we will get to, right? Yeah. But find a mentor. It's life-changing. Yeah. Okay. So I've got some fun stats here. Okay.

From this season. So we've got 20 episodes that we're talking about this season. I know we probably have 21 or 22 by the time this airs. But how many times in the 20 between Asia and Larry Goldings? How many times do you think we said bespoke? 55. Well, only because you're looking at the stats. What, you gave it a paper.

I did give it. We said it 55 times. That's an average bespoke. per episode of 2.75 times. Man, a harmonic genius and a math genius. Okay, Peter. Now, do you feel like that's a lot? Because I feel like 55 is not actually that much.

Honestly, it was underwhelming. I thought we were going to be in triple digits. There's some people around here. I'm looking at you, Dan Martin, in there, that think we always, when he saw this, when you were prepping this, he said, did you hear what he said? No, what he said.

You said 55 times, he said that's 54 too many. That's true. Okay. So here's our analysis of better than K-O-B. So this is one of our categories where we rate whatever album we're talking about, is it better than KOB? So how many times do you think we've had an album where we both agree it's better than KOB? Oh, we both agree? Very little.

I'm thinking, like, I can only remember one time that happened, but maybe two or three. Two times. So the first was Stevie Wonder's Talking Book. We both agreed that it was better than KOB. And the second was Marvin Gay's What's Going On? both agreed that it was better than... Would you stick with those? Kind of blue.

Has anything changed for you on those? No, I totally agree, actually. Those are both good. But interesting that they're both soul classics. From the early 70s. Which we'll get into. Hey, I'm a sole classic from the early 70s. We have a couple...

So you went on an equal to K-O-B run. Shirley Horn, you said was, Here's the Life is Equal. I stick with that. No. But no, but you reject the idea. Have you ever said something as equal? You reject that and you belittle me

every time I've said that. I do. I do. Yeah. We need to get a... better mentor, MENCi relationship on that issue.

We do, we do. I have a, I have a, we have some snobometer analysis as well. Yeah.

So what do you think the most accessible, so first of all, I have a combined thermometer average, just in general. Okay. Right?

It's got to be five, right? It's 5.2. Five point. So slightly snobber. I mean, I don't even, I don't know if that proves

the snowmometer is good or bad. I'm not sure. Yeah. It's more about kind of the things that we're picking, but, So we've had eight albums out of the 20 that were either five or six.

The next was we had five that were either three or four. And then we had one that was a nine or ten. The outliers are the only ones of interest. What do you think the most accessible? What does it's between a five and a six and a four? Yeah, not much. What do you think is the most accessible? So the least snobby album that we were in it?

I mean, I guess Asia, but no. It was Michael Jackson's off the wall. Oh, of course, off the wall. I forgot about off the wall. What do you think the most? snobby. That, so I rated... Well, this is going with your concept of

the least snobby is it's just purely on record sales. Well, kind of. I rated it a one, you rated a three. What's our most snobby? Probably facing you? Correct.

You rated a nine, I rated a ten. But I think that's a super accessible record. I've done this before. What do we... So what do you think the biggest disagreement was? The widest gap between you and I on whether we think... Was I facing you maybe?

Nope. You agree on that. We did nine and ten. Oh, here's to life. No. Okay. The meters. I said three, you said 10.

It's very snobby. It's so good. You don't think that's a good record? Well, it's a great record, man. See, okay, I get it now. You're equating snobby with good. Yeah. That's not how that works.

Well, okay. Okay. Who would love it more? Ethan Iverson or On Linda. You're saying, on Linda, it sways more. It's not about more. I don't know. It's really broken, but we're not losing it.

It's too much fun. What decade do you think held? the title for the most albums. The 20s? No. We had one album. One in the 20s. I'm going to say the 70s or the late 60s. Yes, it's true. It's the 70s had seven albums that we did. Marvin Gay, Stevie Wonder,

Keith Jarrett, Herbie Hancock, Steely Dan, the Meeters, and Tower Power. Second was the 60s. We had five albums. But let me just be clear about this thing of us being weighing heavily towards that time period, especially for the 70s. We are old dudes, but this is not because this is when, I mean, most of that music, I was born in 19, 70. So yes, some of it I heard

kind of in real time. I don't remember a lot. Like, what's your earliest memories of, like, music and being like, I love that? It was probably Michael Jackson's beat up. I mean, how old were you? Four, three or four? Oh, you do? I don't remember... Four or five, maybe? Yeah, I don't remember much before six or seven.

That wasn't like a nursery rhyme or something. Right, right. Yeah. Anyway, I don't think it's just because, like, we were born in the 70s that that we gravitated towards that, but maybe. Okay, let's do some categories. Because if that's the case, we would have been all in the 80s. Like that was my heyday for

pop music especially. We only had one album from the 80s. It was Chick Corea's Electric Band. We had two from the 90s. Shirley Horn Here's to Life and Joshua Rubin's Spirit of the moment. We had two from the 2000s. However, both of the albums from the 2000s were from the year 2000, which is technically the 90s. So that's

DiAngelo's Voodoo and Brad Meldow's Largo. Good record. So, Peter, I have here for you your Desert Island tracks. Now, keep in mind, on the Steely Dan Asia, we did not have the category. It's totally dialed in yet. So we didn't have the Desert Island track. So I will allow you to pick a Steely Dan Asia cut if you want to. But what I'd like us to do

is to talk about our season 12 ultimate Desert Island tracks. So pick one from our from our tracks here. From mine or from yours? I'm going to pick from mine. Yeah, you should pick from yours and I'll pick from mine. I think I'm going to go with, you know, I think I'm going to go with, I can't help it, Michael Jackson. Great call. Because Desert Island, I was going to say Keith Jarrett Lillene, but I might, like, that to me is like the one that I want to listen to every day. But if you're on a desert island, a little different situation. Yeah. Like, you got to keep the party going. Yeah. You got to be inspired. You're by yourself. You don't know when your next meal's coming. You got to go hunt that fish down, buddy. You do got to hunt that fish down. Yeah,

so, what about you? I'm going to go with Brad Melthos when it rains. Wow. You love you some Brad. I do love me some Brad. And I love that track in particular. I love the melody. I love the piano solo. It also, it scratches like an indie rock niche. And it's a nostalgia for you for a period. It is a nostalgia for me. And that's the same with me with that. I can't help it, so. What do you think was the apex moment of season

12? What is your favorite moment of this podcast? Right now. Right now. Right now. No, it kind of is, like, celebrate. No, I would say the what's going on because I could feel You crushed that. You led, so I don't know if the listeners might not know, but we kind of like take turns steering the ship here.

I know. Okay, all these episodes. That was your yours and you crushed it. No, but you had so much great, you know, color commentary and otherwise, I just felt like our joy for that record. Like, first of all, it was such a great rediscover. Like, I never stopped listening to that record, but I've definitely gone stretches where it's not in my consciousness. And like, I was really listening to it that week leading up to it. And, like, I learned a bunch of stuff I didn't know about it. And I knew that, I didn't feel like there was anyone out there that loved that record more than me. But because I learned so much about it in research, I was like, I know a lot of people that love this record and love gathering around it

are not going to know some of this stuff and like getting those string stems and that kind of stuff and like really checking out those dual vocals that that Marvin Gaye did. I mean, it was just, it's like an embarrassment of riches. So I felt like that was sort of a high point. And, you know, we're famously are or aren't a jazz podcast. We don't even know at this point, but we're two jazz musicians, right? Just talking music, right? But I mean, I felt like we, that was probably one of the biggest records that's almost important

records ever made that we brought some really good insight. Like I said, I even thought it was, is a jazz record. You were like, no, this is not a jazz record. But it's a jazzy record. Jazz adjacent. Alt jazz. Progressive jazz. It's something to do with jazz.

And I thought we exposed that in an interesting way. I think it's a great call. That was a really, that was the highlight of the season for me too. But I am going to pick Stevie Wonder's Talking Book. That is in my top five all-time favorite albums. And I just recall us beaming the end. entire time. And that was one that you drove, and I think you just crushed that preparation and all that stuff.

Assume you. I love Stevie. Man, we had such, we listened to every single track. We had a ball doing it. That was real high. I mean, I could listen to that again today. And I mean, maybe it's more kind of like recency bias, but I thought the DeAngela episode we did. We bought and we brought like a similar kind of nest out. Like it was so apparent, like, where were we in our lives when this came out? We even, because all the Roy Hargrove on there, I knew a little bit of the behind-the-scenes stuff. And that, that was a good. good one too. Yeah. Okay. Up next is, so this is usually a category we say what other albums. What happened to bespoke Spotify? Oh, no, we're not. Okay. Oh, sorry. That's right. Bespoke Spotify

playlist. That's right. Sorry. Thank you for keeping me on time. Well, now that you've broken down how much we concentrate on the 70s, I'm going to say surprisingly 70s sole heavy rotation. That's the playlist thing. Yeah. Surprisingly 70s. Well, I would be surprised we had so many 70s. I have Gen X tour bus. This sounds like a playlist you would hear a Gen X musician on a tour bus listening to. when we were like, when I was on the tour bus heavy in like 90s and early 2000, this is exactly what it would be. Exactly right. Yeah. So in the CDs though with the little folder. You'd have your giant book of CDs and be like, hey, jug it out. It's like your little yearbook. Up next. So this category is typically what albums pair with the album we just listened to. Yes. Let's talk about what podcast might pair with. You'll hear it. Okay. Well, I mean, I'm going to go personal on this one. Well, first of all, sticky notes. Sticky notes. Shout out sticky notes, which I've known about for a while, but we've just, can we announce our little? Well, they would have just heard. this last week. Okay, good. Yeah. So,

sticky notes, wonderful. I mean, we don't like to call it. We've heard others call it the classical you'll hear it. No, they don't say that. But it's a great classical music podcast. I think Strong Songs, we had Kirk Hamilton on for the Tower Power episode, and Kirk killed that episode. And he was delightful to talk to. And he's got... Also known as Kurt Cobain.

Nope. No, he's not. And he's got a great podcast called Strong Songs. Check that out. I also think the One Song podcast, we're probably going to work with here in a couple of... And Broken Record, too. And Broken Record, too. And broken record, yeah. We've got Justin coming. And Rich Roll. And Rich Roll.

Why not? Okay, any quibbles this year? This season? Yes. I have one. We don't have keyboards. That's a quibble bit. Okay, leave in the comments because we have a little...

No, do not leave in the comments. So you don't... Is this podcast for you or is it for the dear listeners? It is for me. We're not doing keyboards on this show. We do... Can you measure your britches? Are you too large for those brosens?

And a vintage vibe at the beginning of every episode. Would you guys like us to pull those over? I feel... Okay, can I explain my quibble bit? It's a different show. I didn't say we have to change it. I'm saying this is a quibble bit. Okay, I feel like at times when I'm describing something with words,

my words fail me. Mama, my feet's fail me, kind of that kind of thing, that I'd like to be able to play a few things like we used to. It's going to become a full-on demonstration. I feel like if I'm talking about a minor nine, I'm like, oh, it's that great minor. I want to play that. I want to demo.

I want to be part of the music. And so if I had a keyboard or the bosendorfer or the snout. We've got like set, like, the vintage vibe. Can we get the vintage vibe right here? Just for an occasional chord. No. Why not? Because this is a show about listening to music

and about talking about the emotionality of music. So we shouldn't open our mouths then. It's about listening, shh, quiet. No, let's, shh, quiet. We're listening to music. I didn't. We talk over the music. Why can't we play over the music?

I just don't want it to get into like, what is this voicing that you're playing? I just don't want it to be that nuts and bolts. We have so much on Open Studio that is like, here's the voicing. Leave in the comments if you miss the keyboards. Oh, my God. That's my quote.

Leave in the comments if you. don't miss the keyboard. It's not going to be as much because our diehards want the keyboards but I don't want them back. Okay. For an occasional.

For an occasional. Maybe. Okay. What's your quibble with? You're wanting the keyboards. That's my quibble. Really? Snobometer.

How snobby is this show? Now we already said that it's average rate of 5.2. I feel like the show in general has gotten less snobby, so I'm going to put it at 4. Oh, it's gotten way less snobby. Yeah.

Because no keyboards. Okay. Is this season better than kind of blue. I'm sorry, you have something stuck under your skin. Me. Yeah. I've gotten under it.

Is the season better than kind of blue? Uh, this, I mean, if you add up all the music that's in it, yeah. No. What do you mean? We, we, we had two, we, we featured two episodes that by your own admission are better than K-O. And we've featured 18 that we're not. Some of them were equal, according to me.

According to you. So the season's not better than- So that's so funny. So Peter's basically saying it's equal. Okay. And I'm basically saying, no. This is the ultimate apples and oranges. is this season of our podcast

where we talk about KLB better than KLB Yeah It is It's not Oh, because you said, okay It is not Would you rather listen to our podcast

You know what? I think it's equal Oh, I knew it I knew it I'm gonna say no He's gonna say equal Acutramants I'm gonna use this opportunity

For Akutramans To shout out our production team Yes Caleb, Andy Sam, new to the team How many episodes Was Sam technically here for

So we're giving one clap At least six That's right. But yeah, our production team talk about accoutrements. Like you've seen the improvements and the quality and the songs up front

and the songs at the end and that is... And it's a heavy lift. It has nothing to do with us, all of that stuff. It's like those guys make it look incredible and they make it sound incredible. I also want to shout out

Bob Dubu and Caleb Kirby for playing bass and drums on the intros and the outroes. It's the ultimate accoutrement. I mean, it doesn't get better than that. It's the ultimate... Liz Hames. Liz Hames.

Our brand new podcast producer. We've been working with since the beginning of this season. Liz Hames, shout out to Liz, who really helped shape this season from the beginning. So we brought Liz on board in, I think, late December, early January, and she helped us to define the vision of what this new season would look like. And so just want to shout out Liz. And yeah.

But I was thinking of Kuchamont's more clothing. Well. Can we rate each other's clothes throughout the season? I mean, I feel like your Palm Springs cardigan was such a sensation. I think in general I was more consistently better dressed. But your cardigan really won the day. It was... And won the season, honestly.

Just out of, as a crappy pattern interrupter is what it was. It was amazing. It was purchased, the long sleeve orange with the white, yeah. It looks like Palm Springs. Fun fact, that was purchased in Palm Springs by my wife. How could it not? It's only available in Palm Springs. And by the way, should probably only be worn in Palm Springs.

I only wore it once. So this thing about it is, a little quibble bit with... I saw you snuck that in there. You thought you dressed better than me most of the time. Well, I don't know. Could you drop that in the comment? No, I would say today your accoutrements are okay, but this is a little bit behind. No, no, in general, your accoutrements have been wonderful.

I've noticed you have the little redbird sometimes. Oh, yeah, those are Cuchamins. I'm very passionate about my enamel pins. Some little St. Louis stuff. We both had little St. Louis things that we throw in there. But, you know. Yeah. I think that's about it.

Let us, hey, should we do a gala for this episode? We have to. Yeah, so... Some people may not know about that. Okay, well, let's tell them about that. Okay, gala is not mandatory. Oops, I'm wrong. It is mandatory.

It's the gentleman and ladies' agreement. And if you've made it this far into the podcast, you just agreed to it. So what we're asking you to do is we have delivered a whole season of this beautiful podcast. All we ask from you, nay, demand, is that you go and leave a rating and review or a comment on YouTube. If you're lazy, do a comment on YouTube. If you're, should we call that lazy?

It's not lazy. It's not lazy. No, come on, Peter. But if you're really inspired, go do a podcast, Apple podcast or Spotify review. Because we don't get a lot of those. We read everyone. We don't always read them right away,

but we read everyone. So that's a way to get onto the show if you're interested in such a thing. Yeah. That's the gentleman's and ladies agreement. We agree to give you a great podcast for free. So you agree. Put it in the comments.

You can comment on Spotify, on Apple Podcasts and on YouTube. And you can just like the video if you're also. Yeah. Not just. Do that in addition. Until next time, you'll hear it. See you next season.