You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - Should I Move to New York?

Episode Date: October 7, 2019

On today's episode, Peter and Adam ask whether or not it's worth it to take a bite out of the Big Apple.The people have spoken, and the People's Choice Podcast Award for Best Music Podcast is... not You'll Hear It. We graciously accept our defeat to the wonderful Switched on Pop podcast, which you can check out for yourself (if you haven't already) right here: https://www.switchedonpop.comOpen Studio has a brand new course from renowned pianist Helio Alves! Brazilian Jazz Piano shows you the authentic way to play Brazilian jazz styles including samba, bossa nova, baião, and more. Go to https://www.openstudiojazz.com/brazilian-jazz-piano for more info.Also new from Open Studio: get our official practice journal! This is the perfect tool to improve your playing, and includes 52 weeks for a full year of notes. Learn more at https://store.openstudiojazz.com/product/practice-journal/28Like those You'll Hear It shirts Peter shows off on the podcast? Want some YHI swag of your own? Take a visit to our store! Just go to https://teespring.com/stores/open-studioLet us know what you think by leaving a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review, or head over to our YouTube channel and leave a comment for this episode.Interested in more jazz advice? Go here to browse our catalog of jazz lessons and courses available for purchase.Follow us on Facebook, Twitter & Instagram at:https://www.facebook.com/heyopenstudiohttps://twitter.com/heyopenstudiohttps://www.instagram.com/heyopenstudio See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Hey, Peter. Hey. Shouldn't I move to New York? Um, in, I'll tell you in nine minutes. I'm Adam Manus. I'm Peter Martin.

You're listening to the You'll hear it podcast. Daily jazz advice. Coming at you. Take two. Oh, yeah. This is a take two. I guess we're going to a little pull back the curtain. Very unusual for us.

We're not, I mean, we got a few minutes in to this episode. We were three minutes. Probably three minutes. Would you say three minutes, Ryan? Something like that. What happened? I wasn't feeling it, man. But you weren't feeling it either.

But I said it. I think, you know, and then once I abandon it. Yeah, so occasionally we should let people in our little joke before this becomes take three. Okay. Occasionally, we have to do a second take because our quality control team, which is you or I, or I, or nobody often, says, you know what, this is not up to the level of a award-winning podcast. Oh, which would be interesting that I saw. See? I'm throwing you some curveballs today.

Should we let them know about that? Yeah, we did. This is like a hat within a hat. This is like the Russian doll when you pull the different layers apart, right? This is a hockey helmet on top of a basketball visor. Yeah, we lost to

Switched on Pop. Our friends at Switching on Pop. Yeah, we lost to the number one music podcast on iTunes. I'm so surprised that happened. It's like on the Vox Network. Yeah. So this is the podcast, the Potty's,

as we called it. Only us, only we were calling it the Potty's. but it's the podcast awards, the People's Choice Award. We were nominated, we made it to the finals. We recorded our acceptance speech, not because we're cocky, because it was required to go to the next level. And we just found out we had a crushing defeat to Switched on Pop, which is a really good podcast that I highly recommend.

So my bitterness to losing to them does not deflate my enthusiasm for uplifting a fellow member of the podcast community. So we're going to link below to that like they need it. Yeah, no, they're awesome, man. Yeah, they deserve to win. Yeah. But, I mean, they do way more than two takes like we do. Man, yesterday, I don't think you were around, but producer Andrew was, he broke the news to me about the loss.

And I was, I was so gutted, obviously. Yeah. And then he said something so funny, he was like, and what really pisses me off is that another podcast one called Dads with Bourbon, and that's basically our podcast, too. Exactly. And I was like, yeah, it's pretty close. Yeah, yeah. But they're probably talking about the bourbon. Right.

You know, we're just talking about jazz, but there's bourbon there. I wonder if they have jazz on dads with bourbon. You know what I'm saying? You know, can we get a little love for being multifunctional? Put a little Tommy Flanagan up in there. Exactly, yeah. Anyway, yeah, we're over it. Not.

No, okay, so let's talk about New York. Okay. Should I move to New York? So I think this is really, this is a fun one because this goes back to certainly when way before we were coming along. But for me, kind of like mid-late 80s when, you know, you're graduating high school. and it's like, should you go to New York? Or maybe it's after you go to undergrad somewhere. Or maybe you've just been playing somewhere.

Or maybe you're older, whatever. But this is, but I mean, I remember reading in Herbie Hancock's great biography, where he talks about that going up to New York and are you going to have a gig. And I think his mom was like, how are you going to afford it? You know, like, it's the same thing over and over again. And it's always about, but I mean, the idea with all the obstacles is like, it's not even so much about New York. It's like, should I go to what is the mecca for jazz?

Right. You know, which New York still is. is. You know, it's definitely changed over the years and there's different times. And it wasn't always. I mean, I guess at some point people were like, should I go to New Orleans? Should I go to Chicago? Even maybe Kansas City for a minute there, you know, as being like the, and look, we live in a great jazz town of St. Louis and there's places around the world that are great. But there's nothing like New York. The city's so nice. They named it twice. And so that's always like, should I go with the big dog? Should I go to the big pond? Should I be the little fish? should I go where I really have a chance to be part of

kind of what is perceived and often is the highest level of and most density of jazz music industry folks. Yeah, I mean, it's going to be the eternal question. And when I get asked, my answer changes from person to person who asks me. Yeah, well, somebody sucks, no. Yeah, I mean, that's the thing is like,

or if maybe I just don't think their personality, like if it's not going to be good for them or something. Like if they're into farming. Yeah. It's not a good place for that. If you want to be in the mountains. Urban farming, maybe.

Don't go to New York. No. If you're just obsessed and out at jazz clubs anyway in whatever hometown you're in, and you're out late at night and you just want to play jazz and that's all you want to do, I always say you should go to New York. But not in the middle of the night when you're out in time. Wait till the next day. Wait till the next day.

Plan it. Plan it out. Yeah. Sell your truck. Yeah. No, but it's, and I say this, and for the same kind of things that you were just mentioning about like, um, It's really just like, should I get out of this town?

Like, should I go somewhere where I'm going to be challenged, right? Because, you know, if you're from a smaller community, even a small city, you know, it's easy to have the big fish in a small pond mentality. And that is going to kill your growth. Well, and I think you actually just brought up a good point before this too, which is if, you know, I think what you said was if you're out about town and you really, I think it's important to fully exploit the opportunities where you are. first. Sometimes we maybe get frustrated when you hear a young musician's like, I want to go to New York, but they haven't really taken advantage of all the things

in their town first. I think you should do that for sure. So if you know, like you say, if you're someone who's like, you're doing it, you're contributing, you're part of the community and you want to go next level. But I think all too often folks want to skip some steps and they want to be like, oh, there's nothing here for me, I got to go here.

And I don't think that's a good idea. And I think most of the musicians, you know, the time when I was in New York, and every time I'm there now, most of the musicians that are really successful there that aren't from New York originally were very connected and even stay connected in their original communities and certainly, you know,

took part in all, everything that was offered before they went next level. Yeah, when you go to New York, you're going all in on being a jazz position. You know, our friend, mutual friend, Bjorn Rahnheim, great cellist here at the St. Louis Symphony, I once watched a parent come up to him

and ask, like, should my daughter go to conservatory to play cello, and he didn't know her daughter at all, and he said, well, is your daughter the best cellist in her city? Yeah. And she said, no. And he said, is she the best

cellist at her high school? And she said, no, not really. She's like, well, probably not. I mean, he was just very direct. But it was good advice, actually, because it's like, if you, you know, like, you would, like, to your point, you know, if you're trying to skip steps, like, if you're not one of the best, you know, musicians,

at least of, like, your peers, right? In your generation, like, of course, there's like, you know, if Peter Martin lives in St. Louis, you're not going to, like, you know, be the best pianist in St. Louis, but if you are, like, the best pianist under 20 in St. Louis, you should maybe think about going to New York. When your age division, at least. When you're saying. Exactly right. Yeah, yeah. Well, and I like this. It's funny because I remember my dad, uh, my father used to say some of the things that you're saying Bjorn did, like, he'd have a lot of sort of students would come there in high school help me get in like I want to study with you so I can you know he's violinist and

I want to study with you to get ready for an audition. And sometimes they would come. And he's like, how old are you? Like, oh, I'm 17. I'm a junior. I'm a senior. And he's like, forget about it. Find something else to do.

I was like, dad. It's too late. Yeah, I'm like, why are you being so hard? I was like, you don't know. But it was the same kind of thing. He would be like, are you the best or whatever? And he was like, I'm keeping from crushing the dreams. But he also, when I said, you're being so hard on him.

He said, but this is the thing. You either have to be the best in your thing or whatever to have any hope. Yeah. or he said, you have to want to be the best so much. And he said, sometimes when somebody tells you, no, there's no hope, that if you really want it, then that's going to light that fire in you that you need to be like, whoa, okay, I'm going to prove him wrong. And so he said, I'll tell him that for either way. It's up to them either way.

And I think that that is an important thing. And this is not, like, if you're like more of a recreational player or whatever, that's not what we're talking. We're kind of, we're really talking at the fringes of the edges and when you're younger and we don't want to be. Like, I really believe anybody, really at any age, can achieve anything within this music. If you want to be a great jazz musician, there's almost no getting around having to go to one of the major hubs of it, right? Yeah. I mean, you don't have to go to New York specifically, but you've got to be around really, really good musicians for a while. Yeah.

I mean, there's maybe a way to do it without, but it would just, it would be hard. Yeah. Like, you want that community aspect. It's just fun. I mean, it's fun to be part of that. And you're going to learn. You're going to hear so much music that you will never hear in your tiny Midwestern city or whatever. I mean, that's just the way it is.

But, you know, if you're not, if, like, you don't practice at all and you just are like, you know, kind of apathetic about the process, you're probably not ready. You probably shouldn't go. You will get eaten alive. Literally. Yeah. Literally. Literally, monsters eat people alive in New York. It's a scary place. Dave Kikowsky's up there. Man, he's in a dusty little corner ready to pounce on you.

Piano monsters is ready to shed over you. I mean, there's only one Dave Kikoski, of course. No, but there's like, I remember, you know, my first week up there, I went to a jam session at Cleopatra's Needle. I don't even remember. who the pianist was and I was like my jaw hit the floor I was like that's the other thing it's just some random guy like yeah it's not the Dave Kikkatsi you already know he's good yeah it's the no name guy or gal that's like hustling at the jam session you're like what and then you see him later they're homeless right it's like you sound like herbie Hancock I am herbie

times are tough yeah no I mean it's New York is we overstated but only slightly that's true you know so I think we'll we gave a very clear answer on this that's Maybe. Maybe. Yeah. No, it just depends on your level. Like, what's your ambition level with this, you know? Well, you know what I've noticed a lot of younger folks are getting better at this and we

could all take a cue from this. Like, what's improved is, like, you just go try it out first. For sure. There's nothing wrong with that. You don't have to, like, we were always like, oh, am I going to do it or not? I got to go. And then if it doesn't work out, I'm going to come back with my tail between my legs and I'm going to become a dormant.

No. Now you can go up and, I mean, you always could. But, you know, Airbnb or couch surf or whatever's going on. You know, try it out for sure because some people just hate that lifestyle is difficult. Man, you know, the week I moved, can I tell you a funny story? Yeah. I played a gig here with legendary saxophone player and there was a dusty local bass player on the gig. But I'll tell you after the podcast ends.

And he, I goes like, you won't hear it. I was like, all right, man, I'm leaving for New York. And he's like, I'll see you again. Oh, God. He's like, you'll, or something like that. He's like, you'll be back. Yeah. Oh, and you've avoided him ever since you've been back, haven't you?

No, I see him all the time. He's nice guys. It was like super blunt. Oh, that's great. And hey, I mean, here I am. Yeah, yeah. Well, you put your time in. You put your time.

That's the other thing, you know, it doesn't have to be to move forever. No, that's true, man. You were there for a minute and I was there for a minute. And it's like, you take that. Like, once you've done it and survived and done some gigs and made it there, you can go back with a different kind of appreciation, and then musicians look at you differently. Although, if you're not there, even in this day and age,

I remember when I was going up there a lot, but living in New Orleans, but I mean, I was up in New York a lot. I actually stayed in the Beacon Hotel for five weeks one time. Literally five weeks straight. Damn. And when I was working with jazz and Lincoln Center,

and, you know, I would see people there. I was kind of like, I'm pretty much New York. I even used to, I used to have a pager. You don't know about Pager? I do. I know what a Pager is? Sure. He didn't know what a Pager is.

Yeah, he doesn't know. He's too young. He's 57. He didn't know. No, but with a New York number, I had to, like, pay extra to get a New York number, SkyPager, just so everyone would think I was there because I was like, I'll come up to New York to do a good gig, you know. And then when they find out, they're like, you're in the city, I'm like, eh, you know, I'm in a city. Yeah, yeah.

But I was like, I would never kind of totally lie. I was like, you know what I'm in and out. They're like, man, are you living up here? I was like, no. Oh, sorry. Okay. No. No, but this is a good point, though.

It's like you don't have to live there forever, forever. But those years that you're up there, those will define who you are from going forward. That's right. That's right. Good. Yeah. All right. All right.

Well, this was fun, man. It was fun. Tomorrow we'll do, should I move to Chicago? We're going to make a series out of this. And the next day, should I move to Albuquerque? Like, should I specifically? Yeah. Yeah, we're going to make it very personalized.

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