You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - Should You Learn a New Instrument? - #125

Episode Date: June 3, 2018

In this episode, Adam and Peter debate the value of learning a second or even third instrument. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

I'm Peter Martin. And I'm Adam Manus. You're listening to the You'll Hear It Podcast. Daily Jazz Advice coming at you. Today we're going to look at whether you should start a new instrument. You're looking at me, but I already play a couple instruments, so I feel like this is unfair. Well, I was looking at you, but not accusingly. I was looking at you for guidance on this, actually.

For leadership, in fact. I do play a couple of different instruments. I play the piano as like my main instrument. And, you know, I play a little guitar. I play some accordion. And those are more like peripheral sort of in my... In the melodica. The melodica.

That doesn't really count, though. That's just blowing into a piano, let's be honest. No, I've tried blowing into a piano. Nothing good happens with that. But you know, a lot of jazz musicians play multiple instruments. You know, I know you've played a little bass. Everybody plays little drums. You know what I mean?

It's good to actually know how these instruments work. But I think you're asking, should you start a new instrument from scratch, like, trying to learn it? Yeah. I kind of was, but I think it would be fun for us to look through the different reasons why, because there are, like, you've actually taken on instruments, the ones that you mentioned, and played them professionally and played them well. I think there's that level, and then, so let's look at that, and then let's also just look at the other thing that you mentioned,

which is just learning a little bit, which can really help in terms of composition, just functional. Like, you could never do it on a gig, but you can get around the instrument. Like, if you want to write for brass instruments, to be able to play a B-flat, scale on the trumpet, you know, just to learn the fingers and learn what it takes. It's hard. I know brass players that can't do it. Exactly. Or can't do it well, for sure. So, I mean, there's, I think that there's that. And so the answer would be, yes, you should start a new instrument. Now, should you start an instrument and have the expectation of it becoming

the level of your primary instrument? Maybe not. I mean, it depends, though. I think when you start, if, when you start learning a new instrument, you should ask yourself the question, you know, what's my goal with this? Do I want to be as proficient as this as my main instrument or do I want to, what are you doing there, dude? I'm pouring coffee. Is that loud? Yeah, it's totally allowed. This is so, it's so relaxed you. I just wanted everyone to hear the supple sounds of my Java. It's a little rude, but yeah, feel free, feel free, feel free, no. So what you want to do is ask yourself, how good do I want to get? How much time do I want to

devote to this? Will this distract from my main instrument, anything you learn is going to enhance your musical that enhances your musical knowledge will enhance your playing of your main instrument so I wouldn't worry too much about that but what you don't want to do is put time into something that is not going to help over your main instrument I think that's what I would tell someone

right so a little bit of strategic strategic thought in terms of what instrument and when you do it And what kind of time you have? And what kind of time you have? And then that kind of can help you decide how you're going to approach learning that instrument. So like for me, for guitar, you know,

I always kind of played a little guitar growing up. But when I wanted to, I started getting hired more to write pop songs. And I was writing on piano, but honestly, what I would write on piano would be a little too slick. It would be too, you know, too many seventh chords. Right.

I didn't really want to do that, but I kind of couldn't help myself. Minor 11s. Yeah, exactly. So I was like, I need to simplify. I'll play, I'll get out the guitar, and I kind of focused on getting better at playing voicing on guitar, being an accompanist on guitar. You know, like learning some chords, learning some finger-picking style, and that really helped

me become a better pop songwriter because I was limited in what I could do technically, but that's what I wanted. I want to kind of handcuff myself with that and be able to write songs in that way. Stuff like that is, it's great to pick up a second instrument for. And then there's the thing of what you were kind of alluding to, and that's a that, you know, picking up a second instrument can help you with your main instrument or help you understand jazz better.

Like, I feel like everybody should know a little bit of piano and a little bit of drums. You know what I mean? So you understand how those function. Yeah, and that's, I mean, to me, the most, you know, obvious of when we're looking at this question, should I start a new instrument now that we're talking about it would be, and this is going to sound

self-serving and bias, but I really believe this. If you play anything but the piano is your primary instrument, I think you should lower the piano, period. That's a no way. that's not just jazz. I think that's classical. That's just any kind of, you know, modern Western music. I mean, if you're doing something from another culture, maybe the piano isn't as integral, but for everything that's done within this music, for sure, jazz music, that learning piano will enhance your play. And I mean, this, don't take my word forward. Just look at

the great players and you see what they're, you know, usually a varying amount of proficiency of piano, but the one thing that they all have all in common, singers, horn players, drummers, bass players. I mean, when we had Christian McBride in here working on his course with him, we ended up pretty easily talking him into doing a whole lesson, video lesson, on the piano, because he's such a good pianist and his concepts are so interested. And he's like, man, I'm not a pianist. He's not bad, though. Exactly.

I was like, don't worry. We're not going to put it out if it doesn't sound good, but it sounds good. And we were speaking, I think, specifically about composition, and he got some great stuff how it relates to bass playing. But I mean the piano really is like that's the that's like the no-brainer one. If you're thinking of doing another instrument and you want to be strategic about it, learn some piano. There's just no better way to see and hear the inner workings of music of harmony and counterpoint and melody. And then the piano, you can do, you know, you can be a whole band and it really helps no matter what you play.

And then I actually, I do believe that drums, it's the same kind of concept. There are so many concepts that you can get for your instrument from learning a little bit of drums, from learning a little bit of rudiments, from being able to play two-handed, and how that affects, especially the piano, but any instrument, and learning how that relationship with rhythm can help you

in your main instrument. I think it's key that everyone learns a little bit of drums, not to mention the fact that it then becomes playing, it makes playing with drummers a lot easier. Yeah, and a lot more fun. A lot more fun. A lot more fun, a lot more interesting. And I actually, you know, thinking back on it, there was a period where I really feel like I learned how to swing and groove from playing the bass, learning to play the bass and the drum specifically. I could play a little bit of bass because I actually started on violin originally and got, you know, fairly proficient on the violin and kept that going. Just a little bass. Yeah, just exactly. Well, I mean, it's like, so the base when I started kind of messing around with other, I mean, I had the advantage to. too, we had the advantage of coming up in the time, I think, and in music programs in like our middle school and high school, and I was in a musical family. There was always instruments around,

so it was like, I'm bored, and you just sort of pick up another instrument if you were sick of playing the piano or whatever. And so now it's like, you know, people going on the internet kids or whatever instead of that. So I would say for parents out there, you know, have some good instruments just sitting around sometimes. I mean, lessons on an instrument is great, but just have, like, that's one of the best tips, I think, for if you want to have your kids interested in music. I mean, yeah, you can, up to a certain age, you can, we should do a, are we allowed to have a sidebar and talk about planning a future episode while we're doing this? No one listening to you, that's fun.

Yeah, this is what everyone zones out. They come back at the end for the offers. No, we should do something about like how to, you know, get to, because we're both parents of musician children and stuff, like how to get them into jazz or learn about music. But, you know, having just instruments available, that discovery, that's what's a great thing about learning another instrument. So we can probably go beyond just the piano. We know that's important, but for pianists or anything, like, that you become a child again. Yeah.

When you, and I think that you probably, I can see that with you as you've gotten into the other instruments. Even the guitar, you play it in a way that you don't play an instrument that you feel like you've mastered and been with your whole life. Well, everybody sat down at a drum kit and just had a bunch of fun banging away, right? And actually, you know, going back to the parenting thing, and we'll do a whole episode about this, but I just leave instruments. Seven ways to be a great parent. There's seven ways to get your kids into music or whatever. I just leave instruments laying around. Like there is permanently an electric bass

plugged into an app set up in my daughter's room. She doesn't really touch. Is that a fire hazard? It might be. No, it's like a fender jazz bass that's, but there's going to be a day where she's going to be like, oh, I have an electric bass here.

Jessica wants to form a band. Well, I'll play, you know what I mean? That's my hope. And I have drums set up in the basement. Is that her friend, Jessica? Yeah, well, yeah, that sounds like someone my age actually put on. Yeah, they don't use that name.

Yeah, they're all names like Brie. Briella. Yeah. Anyway. But, yeah, I would say that just, you know, experimenting on these different instruments, having them available, that's key to this. But if you decide to learn a second instrument, you know, make sure to be clear with your goals, with your time, set your expectations reasonable.

I think that's important, yeah. Because you're not, I mean, generally, unless you're learning them as a child, like I was, you know, I kind of gave up. the violin, but every time I go back to it, I'm reminded, like, I learned it at such an intuitive age and so young that had I learned it later, like, I've learned

certain skills later in life, like skiing. I never skied, and I'm like not a great skier, but I learned when I was like in my early 30s. And I mean, I'm a competent, safe skier. But I'll never be able to ski. I don't, I don't know, maybe I'm self-limiting, like, if I'd learn it as a child. Because I'm a very

cautious skier, and I just don't have that intuitive kind of flare for it like I did for other sports for that I learned when I was younger. You were born in the snow. I was not born in the snow. I was born in Florida in fact. So maybe that's part of the problem. But I think that like with your expectation with the instrument, it doesn't mean that you can't get good. I mean, I've heard people, I mean, Brian Blade, who I was, we just played with a couple of weeks ago. I, you know, he, I remember being on the road with him in like the mid-90s and he just like brought a guitar. He bought this guitar. We were somewhere. I think we were in San Francisco. He bought a guitar and then he started

bring it on the road, he's like, I'm going to learn guitar. And we're like, yeah, right, you know, you're going to do a, and then, like, he just slowly got better and better. And, like, he's a great guitarist and, like, learned a song write on it and stuff. And so, I mean, there is no limit in a way. It's just that you don't necessarily want to have that, that, that, it's not going to, it's like learning a language. It's not going to be the same with no accent or anything like when you're a child, I think.

Well, but the advantage that you do have, like, with Ryan Blade, is that you already know how to learn an instrument. You know what it takes. You know better than you knew when you were a kid, even. though you don't have that, that, you know, first language kind of thing, that fluency, you know how to structure your practice, you know how to progress. So in that sense, you have a bit of an advantage. And if you apply what you know about your original instrument to learning a second instrument,

you can actually progress pretty fast and get to a competent level, if not a masterful level. Right. Yeah, and I think that that's actually a common fallacy or misunderstanding is that it's going to be slower than when you're a child. I think it can actually be faster because of what we know. There's a certain amount of intuition and stuff that can be lost if you're not careful because it's like there's an ignorance when you're a kid that's a beautiful thing because you're not worried about like a lot of things.

And that's why I'm a big believer in like starting instruments at a very young age. But it does move slow. I mean, my kids went through, well, I'll save this for the kids episode. We'll save this. Yeah, yeah. We should do this next. Yeah, we'll do it. You're available in three minutes from now?

Tomorrow. Tomorrow. Well, I hope this helps anybody who's considering picking up a new instrument. You know, yeah, I think it's very rewarding. It could really help you on your primary instrument and actually could, you know, for me, it's like a little bit secondary income. Yeah, and I mean, it's just, it's such a, yeah, you can even be a little strategic with that. Look, most cities do not have enough good bass players.

Yeah, that's so true. If you play trumpet, pick up the bass too. I mean, acoustic bass is a difficult instrument. Electric's probably a little easier if you wanted to start there. transitioned to acoustic, but it's not a bad idea, you know. But I think just, it's just fun, too. I mean, it's like learning a language, you know, a lot of people like, and I don't really have a, I mean, shame on me.

I kind of have an ear for languages and can kind of learn fairly quickly, but I haven't done that beyond, I mean, I know, like 10 languages, I know about three phrases. If I had spent all that time just learning one, I could be fluent. But, I mean, it can be like that where there's, there's no limit. If you learn one, you can learn another. That's awesome. Well, if you like what you heard, please leave us a rating and review. below. You can always go to you'll hearat.com to leave us some lesson request or just say hello.

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You can save 10% if you enter the offer code. You'll hear at 10 in the offer code field at checkout. This is every course we have piano courses, guitar courses, bass courses, trumpet. Saxophone coming soon, I think. We'll record. We have Diane Reeves coming soon. So if you're vocalists, get in on that. Yeah.

What do you got, Pete? You'll hear it.