You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - Solo Analysis: "Cantaloupe Island" - Herbie Hancock - #18

Episode Date: January 23, 2019

It's a special two-parter solo analysis this week as Peter and Adam check out a performance of "Cantaloupe Island." This episode, it's an analysis of Herbie Hancock's solo. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

I'm Adam Manus. And I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to the You'll Hear It Podcast. Daily Jazz Advice, coming at you. Coming at you from beautiful St. Louis, Missouri, open studio headquarters. It's track analysis Wednesday. Just do it. I know you want to do it.

There you go. Got this man. A MIDI keyboard in the pod cave for one episode. And he's already incorrigible. Oh, breaking it out. Pitch bend. All right. So today we're doing track analysis Wednesday.

That's track analysis. Oh, I thought it was play-along Wednesday. I have a feeling that every day's going to be play-along. Man, they got me in the mood, man. They're jamming. It's pretty funky. Enjoy that, podcast listeners. So this was sent in by listener.

Mick, Nick wanted to hear us do an analysis of this Herbie Hancock version of Canelobe Island featuring Pat Mathini, Dave Holland, Jack DeGionette. Amazing band. Super bands. From a YouTube video, we're going to post the link here in the, in the, show notes in the description in the show notes and so let's get into it shall we yeah for so let's go back the beginning just can we analyze is that included yeah let's do intro because man herbie comes in firing check out the time immediate it's like you

turn it a metron mom and it's so great because you know he uh he sets I mean I don't I'm trying to remember because I think I does it say what year this is from it doesn't but I mean I remember hearing you know can play around this time, judging from how he looks. And I know he did this a lot of different ways, but the way that he plays that intro, like, sets the whole groove up and everything. And then Dijanette comes in right with the way that it, because this is not the way the tune was written.

No. And there's several different ways that he's played it over the years, but it's so creative, but mainly it's just so much in this groove. I love this group. I love this groove that they're setting up here. It's killing. And this band, man, first of all, everybody has such a distinct sound. That's what comes to mind.

All these players, all four of them. Dejanette, Dave Holland, and Mathini especially, have such a distinct personal sound. It's great to hear. And they really retain it on here without it becoming like a clash of the Titans sort of situation. Totally. I mean, like, that's total, Mathini's not like he's changing his thing up. I'm going to say this is mid-90s, just by Mathini's midi-ish guitar that I'm seeing here. Right.

I think it's MIDI. That might not be. What is all that there? I was going to say, if you went by Mathini's, hair, but that's been the same since 1973. Our YouTube watchers who are guitarists, let us know what kind of

guitar Pat Matini's playing there. All right, getting in the whole, Kirby's solo. Hold on, hold on, hold on, let's back it up. Back it up. Coming in hot. Oh, I love that. I love that. So he's kind, you know, first of all, he comes in really hot. Yeah. Because, like,

the groove and everything, like, he, I mean, he's playing appropriately. It's a difficult place to kind of start your solo from, because you're starting up there. But you've got to do it when that's what the vibe is when that's how the band's playing. You know, he comes in super rhythmic, you know, very, I wouldn't even say really aggressive, but like right there in the cut.

But then when he got to this part, he kind of the first time he loosens up the time a little bit, a little drama built up through the way he's already structuring. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think with this tempo and groove in particular, like that 16th note feel, that is intensity to me. So I think, you know, you could do it a few days.

different ways, but the way he does it is probably the way I would choose to do. Now that you've heard his version. Yeah, no, no, I mean, only because I've been influenced by Herbie. So. Yeah. Well, but the thing is, too, like, Herbie's so great at, like, there's going to be, like, drama and something interesting in the solo. But he doesn't, like, the kind of obvious dramatic thing is to sort of force it to be

broken down at the beginning of the solo after it's coming, like, really, like, grooving and hot. I mean, look, he's the one who set it up with the intro. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he could sort of break it down and then build up from there. But it's a little bit of. of a lazy way to do it. And so to jump right in there is very confident

because it's like where do you go from there, you have to really get creative, which is not a problem for him. Let's hear it again. Triplice. That's triplets, by the way, for those listening, he used two hands for those chords. There's a lot of black keys in that

passage. A little D-flat 7-5. I think he did two with his right, one with his left. A little intonation issues. And I heard me all. Blue scale. Not afraid of it. Hey.

First counter melody. So check it out. So he's, you know, on one hand, you could say he's playing very busy, but like now he's actually playing less busy than he did the beginning of the solo. That's right. Jack Dijunette's playing very busy, but like very, very like intuitive and interactive. So I think Herbie's sort of feeling that. So then he kind of eases up.

He was doing a lot of left hand at that first chorus. Yeah. He's almost going single line, leaving some nice space, but still like keeping the intensity of the rhythm of his lines going. It's a very interesting way to structure. It just shows you it's like you don't have to do the typical way of structuring, but you do need to listen to what's happening in the moment. That's a great point.

Listening to what's happening in the moment and don't feel like you have to do it all all the time. If you hear the drummer start to take over some of this energy, let them have it. Especially if it's Jack Dijunette. Especially if it's, no, but a good drummer will do it just right. Yeah. And you want that interaction. Exactly.

And so you can hear Herbie, I'm hearing him do, you know, some repetitive themes or whatever and letting Dijanette fill in. for the audience what what should be happening is great man yeah and I mean you know what he's the whole concept and I really want to just talk about this more this year because I used to back back of the day like five years ago but I kind of got off of it's so important like let the tune come to you don't chase around after the tune like what it's got in it so when you get to the solo it's like he's not afraid of hitting that blue scale a lot you know as you say jack de jeannette has given a lot of really cool rhythmic thematic things so he's not

get out of the way. Like don't feel like you have to chase around after the tune. Let it come to you. Absolutely. Man, it's good. Yeah. Let the tune come to you. Exactly.

Right there. He was hearing something or something wasn't, just didn't feel like he had anything to say in that space and he let it come to him. Yeah, it was almost like a reset. Like he let things reset without forcing him to reset. That's okay. Let's hear that moment again. Yep.

Coming strong. Yeah, exactly. And when he reset it too, it's not like bang, he waited and just hit on one. Methini played some really, almost like a race. gay kind of guitar thing there and then Dijunette sort of let it in and then Herbie came at a place that was less than obvious but right in there. Awesome. Uh-oh. Herbism number seven. All right, but I want to comment on that herbism number seven. So that, let's hear that one more time. Cicelic.

It's a similar, it's a variation. Is it? Yeah. No, but you know what? These textural things, like I consider that a textural thing. It has nothing to do. I mean, it's in this, the notes are in the scale or whatever, but that's not how Herbie's thinking about it. It's like, I'm going to play the notes in from the chord or whatever. It's a texture. And those things I want to stress are super important to collect when you're playing. That's right. You know, for me, when I hear like a player who's not quite there, they don't have enough of that kind of thing. They're too in the changes. They're trying to work everything out evenly. There's no texture to their playing. Add some textural things like Herbie has it, chick has a ton. Everybody has it. I mean, even all the way back to Art Tatum, a lot of those big sweeping runs are textual ideas.

Yeah, and I mean, if we think about the things that Herbys added to the sort of lexicon of jazz piano and to our toolbox, it's not so much, I mean, yeah, there's this lick, number seven or whatever. I'm joking that it has a number, but it is, it's the vibe that you get from that texture, and our Tatum had them, and then, like, all these great players sort of added one little thing or three or whatever. Like, we think about, like, the double diminished and all this stuff. Yeah, that's fine, but this is the stuff that it's almost like, like, like when you say adding that, like we think about our little toolbox, you know, like you're

starting out as a plumber and then you see like an older plumber. It's like, oh, I've got this other tool for that time that I might need it for that special kind of piping. I've got it in the box. I pull it out at the right time. So then it's like you have those assets, those musical textural assets. And now you're using a combination of your musical taste, your experience, your confidence as to when to pull it out.

So the young player is going to like pull it out of me like, ah, and throw it out at the wrong time on the middle of a ballad or something. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So once you get and you can play it and you know what it sounds like, you'll pull it out at the right time. And I would say this, the texture of this, almost the way you described it makes me think of, it's almost like a marimba lick. And I'm thinking like, you know, like Bobby Hutcherson. Yeah. You know, there's a role to it. There's a role to it. There's a procussiveness. I mean, obviously the piano is always a percussion instrument, but it can be more of a stringer's me. This is kind of a percussive texture. A sustain even. You can think of it that way. Yeah. And it's just a, yeah.

I mean, it's hard to really put words to it, but it's important to identify it, and then you've got it. And you don't have to worry about copy and Herbie or whatever. Yeah, and I mean, you can find a ton of players that do this. You know, who's really great at this is Robert Glasper. Absolutely. Has a ton of great textual ideas that come up in every context. Yeah, and I think, you know, for Glasper, for like a lot of these players, the exciting thing to see them in real time over the years as they develop. Like, he's had all that stuff for a while, but then he still is open to learning more.

and as his musical experiences have gotten deeper and his musical conceptions have gotten more sophisticated when he pulls those out and places those. It's like, man, is that like a new thing? No, it wasn't a new thing for him, but how to place it at that time becomes so much more mature as he goes along. It's very exciting.

Very, very exciting. Cool. All right, let's see. May and I piano, I don't think it's a fazioli. No. This is pre-faziole. By the way, those are three octaves he's doing. He's doing like one in his left and two and a lot.

I think. And look how he comes back to the single line after that. Okay. From Madison. Well, but listen to the, for me here, that vibe that he just created. We talked about this when we talked about Roy Hargrove's solo on Straussburg-St. Anthony. Yeah.

That it was about towards the end of his, somewhere towards the end of the solo. He kind of came down. Yeah. Roy Hargrove did. And here, Herbie does the same thing. He just had a pretty big moment. Not afraid to bring it down a little bit and use some space. Check that out.

And not ending. Not ending. No. I mean, he's a good way into his solo. But that's some of the strongest sort of thematic rebuilding now, maybe, down rhythmically. Totally just went out. That's killer. Okay, we got to talk about that.

So he got into the D-flat-7 and then it went to D minor, the form. But he stayed on that. But it was like, are you going to get there? And he doesn't resolve it until it goes back. the F7. He basically turned that D into a diminished chord, which we know is ambiguous and builds tension, and he used that to build tension up until it paid off. Check it out.

Back it up for more. And there's already this sort of chromatic, esoteric thing the way he built that up. Definitely a diminished thing. So, you know, I think what the thing with the solo... You know, one thing about it is...

Oh, man. Yeah, sorry, I won't do that. No, no, it's this guy... You know what it is? It's like he it's it's almost frantic in a way yeah but he's like he's using so much sort of in the moment musical taste to curate it as he plays to a lesser player which would be almost anybody but herbie right like it would just have this sort of manic frantic kind of pacing but he's able to kind of sculpt it and like go back and forth and like in and out you know in terms of like using the rhythmic intensity and dramatic stuff and then you know that diminished and I think that one thing we I would caution everybody is

Like learn these different things, you know, like the cascading thing and the diminished. But don't try to put this all together in one solo until you're on Herbie's level because it will sound frantic and manic. But you can start to put these things together and start to think about when the vibe is right. And look, the way they played this tune from the beginning calls for the, if you can pull it off. That vibe was from the beginning. You're absolutely right. Let's hear how he ends it. Set the piano on fire.

But another zone. Just keeps taking it out. up, up it up. And it's just like he's got to go somewhere else harmonically. He can go anywhere. Yeah, yeah. There's so much chromaticism

when he plays like this. Yeah, that's another texture that chromatism. By the way, shout out to Dave Holland here who's just, if you watch the video, he's so relaxed.

Yeah. He's just staying in the group. And you know, we got a request to you to do Pat's solo, at Pat Matini solo. I think we should make this a part too. We're going to have to,

I can't take it, man. I can't take it. I don't know how anybody solves after that either. That's going to be interesting. So we'll hit this up, we'll hit this up on tomorrow's episode and continue on. This is a great,

great performance. It is, we'll have a link to the YouTube. If you're on YouTube, we'll probably have some kind of video version. Right, Andrew? Yeah.

Just a couple of house cleaning things. If you haven't heard already, we're doing a bit of a call for theme music for our closing credits. Credits. Like we have, like, produced by Sheldon. That'd be great.

So, you know, send us a track. Send it to Andrew at openstudio network.com. And if we like what we hear, we're going to put it as the end music for a podcast. If we like what we hear, and we think it's appropriate for the end. We might hear things we like, you know, don't be like, oh, you didn't like my trick.

Maybe it just wasn't right. Exactly. Yeah. Well, until tomorrow, you'll hear.