You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - Soloing on Pop Changes

Episode Date: May 1, 2019

Another SpeakPipe pops up! And today, Peter and Adam talk about soloing over pop changes for the improviser. Wanna send a SpeakPipe of your own? Check out the bottom of the page at http://www.openstudionetwork.com/podcast.The ending theme song for today's episode is "Traveling at Night" by Burke Ingraffia. To get your music featured on You'll Hear It, send an MP3 recording of your music to [e-mail] & Tunes to Check Out:Stevie Wonder - "Isn't She Lovely" - https://geo.itunes.apple.com/album/isnt-she-lovely/549888946?i=549888978&app=itunesKeith Jarrett - https://geo.itunes.apple.com/artist/keith-jarrett/72348?app=itunesKenny Kirkland & Sting - Bring On the Night - https://geo.itunes.apple.com/album/bring-on-the-night-live/473108770?app=itunesBrad Mehldau - Largo ("When It Rains") - https://geo.itunes.apple.com/album/largo/73256991?app=itunesJerry Douglas - https://geo.itunes.apple.com/artist/jerry-douglas/2357183?app=itunesEdgar Meyer - https://geo.itunes.apple.com/artist/edgar-meyer/6493247?app=itunesChris Thile - https://geo.itunes.apple.com/artist/chris-thile/290643627?app=itunesKirk Whalum - https://geo.itunes.apple.com/artist/kirk-whalum/152092?app=itunesDavid Sanborn - https://geo.itunes.apple.com/artist/david-sanborn/163043?app=itunesRobert Glasper - https://geo.itunes.apple.com/artist/robert-glasper/4643652?app=itunesToday's episode is sponsored by the Oxford American. The Oxford Americanis a magazine dedicated to documenting the complexity and vitality of the American South. Its award-winning annual music issue comes with a CD sampler and digital download - a must-have for any serious music fan. Recent issues have featured Nina Simone, Thelonious Monk, John Cage, and John Cage. Visit https://www.oxfordamerican.org/yhi today for a special subscription discount!Let us know what you think by leaving a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review, or head over to our YouTube channel and leave a comment for this episode.Interested in more jazz advice? Go here to browse our catalog of jazz lessons and courses available for purchase.Follow us on Facebook, Twitter & Instagram at:https://www.facebook.com/heyopenstudiohttps://twitter.com/heyopenstudiohttps://www.instagram.com/heyopenstudio See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Hey, Pete. Hey, man. Pop and lock. Pop and lock. I'm Adam Manus. And I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to The You'll Hear at podcast. Daily jazz advice coming at you.

We're not a breakdancing podcast? No. I don't even know if many of our listeners know. Well, yeah, we have some mature-aged listeners like we are to remember the days of breakdancing. That's right. You young and YouTube it. Today's episode of the You'll Hear podcast is brought to by the Oxford American. please go to Oxfordamerican.org slash YHI for some great deals on one of the finest Southern literary magazines there is.

So many great articles about cultural icons that touch us every day here on this podcast that are influences for all jazz musicians. Check it out. That's Oxfordamerican.org slash YHI for $25 for annual subscription. Not bad. And just a little clarification. A lot of people, when I'm talking about the Oxford American and my passion for it and their sponsorship, I think, oh, is that? Oxford, Mississippi. It is not a little confusing because that's another great literary southern town. Yeah, it's, uh, well, yeah, exactly. No, but it's in, they're out of Little Rock, Arkansas. Yeah. Which is another great southern city and they're, they have a wonderful live venue called a restaurant and a venue called South on Maine. I would encourage anyone in the Little Rock area to check in on that. You play down there, right? I play down there. Yeah, a couple times.

You're playing down there soon, right? I think so. September, maybe. September. Cool. We have a speak pipe today from JD. Hey, if you want to ask us a question, we are, we are putting out the call for speak pipes. We're challenging you to leave us a speak pipe question. We want to answer it. We do, although we're not as desperate as we were last week because we've had so many come in now. We might even be getting picky. No, it's not. Let's not. Let's keep it rolling. No, keep it rolling. For sure. But we can't prompt. Like before we're like, you're definitely getting on. Except that one off, that one was whack. Remember a few months? Yeah, if you send anything slightly racist, we're not going to put it on. Yeah. Not even slight. Even over. Yeah.

Anyway, let's listen today. Hey, Adam and Peter, thanks for all you guys do. I love listening to your podcast and all the great advice you guys have. My question's around soloing with maybe like pop music. I find sometimes with like jazz, R&B kind of that style, you know, having those seventh chords, those extra colors. It's a little easier to kind of come up with ideas, but sometimes get stuck when it's just, you know, your basic one, four, five minor six triad kind of deal in a pop setting. I think of guys like Jamie Colum or something that, that kind of, you know, that kind of, you know, your basic. I take those that pop sound and kind of add a little bit more color and a little bit out,

but not so much that they lose the feel of maybe that style. Just wondering if you guys have any tips or tricks for just kind of playing over those basic triad chords. So anyways, love to hear from you. Thanks again for all you guys do. Appreciate it. This is an actual question that I don't think we've ever addressed. And it's a great question. I don't think so. And look, since we're getting close to lunch now, anyway, we want to go eat.

And this is about pop music. It's going to be short and sweet, baby. Okay? I love to do this, man. I do this all the time in the music I play. to play over triadic stuff. Yeah, but you also, you'll take some simple pop tunes, very simple harmonically,

and put a nice little Adam Maness arrangement on them, and they kind of become a little bit more complex. That's definitely one thing you can do, is you can not jazzify, I want to say, but you can make them more improviser friendly. Right. The pop changes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It depends on what kind of sound you want. Right. But I think for JD's question here, there are some ways to solo on just like straight ahead pop triads. I hear you do this with Diane Reeves all the time, too. You guys have a couple of tunes that are like, really pop tunes. Yeah, yeah. Pop, R.B, real, like, folk.

Yeah, I had to do this in Aaron Bodie's band for years and years. Yeah, it's hard. It's a skill that you have to practice. A lot of jazz players are just like, oh, that's beneath me because they can't do it. Yeah. You know. Man, I have to say one of my favorite musicians that I've ever worked with, and we did these things in Aaron's band, all these pop tunes,

and he was incredible at it, was the great saxophone of Shamis Blake. can play on triadic stuff better than almost anybody I've ever heard. And you think of Seamus as it's like, you know, from the bebop tradition, but like a modern thing, but man, he has this lyrical sound. But that was the first thing that I think

I thought of when I had to start learning how to do this was you kind of have to take B-Bop out of the equation a little bit. It doesn't quite work all the time. Yeah, you get that big triad or two-core. You don't want an essay to be B-be-doo-bib-di-da. Yeah, a lot of enclosures can sound weird.

Yeah. A lot of, like, you know, major nine arpeggios are not going to work. Right, right, right. Yeah, it's the vocabulary. And really, the challenge comes in, I think that, you know, we always talk about melody, rhythm, and harmony as kind of being those most basic building blocks of our improvisation and really just music in general. But this kind of playing requires melody to become so much more important. And so especially at piano, which, you know, on its music,

face can not be the most lyrical instrument. Like, we, we can get away with things sometimes by really exploiting, like, the harmonic aspects of things. Too much sometimes. Yeah, and rhythm, and, you know, it's a percussion instrument. Totally. But playing over very simple chords means you have to be super melodic. And so I would, like, actually think of somebody like Stevie Wonder, the way that he

improvises over his songs. Now, yeah, of course, his songs are very, you know, sophisticated harmonically in a way, but you can check out certain, like, isn't she lovely? has some very like I don't know well that that kind of goes some places harmonically you know who's the perfect person check out for this though

Keith Jarrett but in the context of those vamps that he does they'll do those like 20 minute long at the end of autumn leaves vamps yeah yeah and he can go on those two chords forever usually triatic you know maybe it's some kind of seventh but it's never like changey

you know what I mean it's all very in the pocket and he is so good at developing melodies on the piano like that And if you think about it, what he's doing a lot of times in those vamps. I mean, there's a number of different ways he's done them. But I'm thinking of, I think I'm thinking of the same kind of ones you're thinking of is like really concise and beautiful, well-crafted melodies. But like serious attention to rhythm and groove, you know. So like the harmony is not really, I mean, it's it is what it is for that vamp.

But it's not as adventurous, really. It's really about the melody and the rhythm. And so the lyricism comes out And then he also exploits a number of other things that he's just a master of in terms of sound and touch and dynamics and beauty and all that kind of thing too But it's like having that confidence to just go You know just play on that that triad

And then you know he uses a lot of you know One two three five like to craft That's my pop thing too that's the go to And maybe a little one three four five you can tell that in there Four five absolutely yeah yeah And a lot of four three four you know one and and I mean So having the confidence to be like take those more basic elements when you don't have the seventh and the 11th arpeggios and up to the

and the extensions and all that to really hear and I know we get in some controversial area every time we talk about hearing hearing something and what does that mean but I mean to hear a simple melody and just to simply state it's kind of like when you're having a conversation with someone that's not just a child where you're talking down to them but you're going to say I'm not going to use I don't know I've been getting a little getting I heard you guys making fun of me trying to use big words on the office lately. That's okay though. Little catchphrases and stuff. I'm sorry. I got you. I got you. I'm going to get didactic

on you. No, but it's like we're having a conversation and I'm going to come to to use very simple words, but to convey a sophisticated thought or emotion. And I think that's what, you're right, Keith Jared. I think Stevie Wonder, I just hadn't thought of the right.

Actually, isn't she lovely? I'm thinking of like his harmonical soul. Of course, there's so much emotion you can put through that instrument. But a lot of his, you know, key souls. I mean, he can go crazy on the changes too, but he's very interesting improviser, Stevie Wonder,

like Keith Jared in a lot of ways. There are three players that, for me, I'm thinking of right now as we're talking about this, that come to mind that are just masters of this. Two of them are jazz editions, and one is totally out of the left field, but I think... Wait, let me guess, are these ones we always talk about on this show? No, actually.

The first, I mean, the first is someone we talk about a lot, but I don't usually talk about, but I'm thinking of Kenny Kirkland when he played his sting specifically. You know, some great piano solos over were not really changing things. I mean, there's some seventh chords, but it's not like playing changes.

Right. Now, he was exploiting rhythm. He was like, definitely. That's fascinating. You know, I mean, the melody for sure, but it's like when the harmony, he could be so sophisticated harmonically, but when it called for that really basic thing,

his rhythmic thing was, and especially like between the two hands and stuff and the interplay, he really went there. The second is Brad Meldow, especially on an album like Largo. Yeah. You know, that first track,

when it rains is a lot of triadic concepts. I mean, it's not, There are seventh chords for sure, but it's not like changing. It's not like 1625s. And he is really playing in a language that's more on the pop side than like a bebopi side. So that's when it rains, not to be confused with your unpublished, undocumented, make it rain, that little blues that you wrote there. A couple of other people that you might check out on this.

Man, have you ever heard of this Dobro player, Jerry Douglas? Oh, of course. Dude, heard of this guy. Yeah, yeah, man. It's one of the best musicians I've ever heard and plays such simple sounding language, but in a way and with a feeling that is so beautiful and melodic and just gets me every time. Check out anything Jerry Douglas has ever done. It's bluegrassy.

I mean, he's made bluegrass, but he's also done things like, you know, with Edgar Meyer and things like that. I mean, Edgar Meyer is someone, too, that you could actually check out for this. Well, Jerry Douglas has an advantage, though, because the doughbro as an instrument, it's actually in 40, I don't know if you knew this, 47 out of 50 states, illegal to play bebop on a dober. It's impossible. It's against state regulations. It's also such an expressive instrument, let's be honest. Another person is Chris Thiele, the mandolinist.

Also, he heavily relies on rhythm big time. But all of that Punch Brothers stuff is, you know, triadic based soloing, and there's all of those guys are super heavyweights at that. Absolutely. One more guy I would mention this, a master, this is Charlie Park. Oh, no, I guess not. That's something different. Fairly bebopi.

Fairly bebopi, I think. Kirk Whalum. Now, you can play a bunch of notes and still stay within that. David Sanborn. David Say hello. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There you go. I see where we're going now.

I'm liking this. Yep. Yeah, cool. Kenny G. Okay, no, I'm going to. Sorry. Well, sorry. Robert Glasper also comes to mine.

Yeah, yeah. But yeah, this is cool, man. Thank you, J.D. for the question. Interesting area that we haven't gone too much. Very cool. We got a special ultimate tip for you coming up very shortly because we're going to get out of here in a second. Tell them about our sponsor. Go to Oxfordamerican.org.

slash YHI for a $25 annual subscription to the Oxford American. You're going to get amazing articles about Southern culture. You're going to get incredible writers writing stories about musicians and cultural icons that you're going to want to know more about. You're going to get incredible poetry to just enrich what you are probably already interested in. So again, that's Oxfordamerican.org.org. slash Y H. And you know, if you live close to the South as we do, well, it's no matter where you live because you can travel anywhere in the world now, apparently. But the great thing about Oxford, every time I read it or look at it, it's like a travel brochure. It makes me want to go to these

places, you know. The Georgia one with James Brown and stuff. It's like, I mean, I've been to Georgia in Atlanta so many times, the airport, but Savannah and like the different parts, but Albany, I mean, it's just, it makes you, because it really brings out the best of these places. and this amazing culture that sprung forth from the south. Really an outsized amount of culture has come from these southern states. It's pretty amazing. I mean, obviously music, but writing. Yeah, no, people all over the world are copycatting southern culture all the time.

All right, so what's our ultimate tip? So the ultimate tip is to be able to, you know, we're talking about playing over pop changes, pop tunes, is transcribe pop tunes. Okay, so this will kind of like reverse engineer a little bit of developing your ears in a way that'll help for this and just a number of different things. and this is something I used to do and I kind of said,

even if you're shamed that people know that you like them, you know, if it's a little bit of, I don't know, it could be anything anything catchy that you think is too simplistic or not worth your time but you're still developing your ears and it's going to attune you a little bit

so it could be anything you're hearing on the radio or YouTube or whatever that you kind of like and it's always fun to transcript stuff you like. We are giving you license to put aside that Charlie Parker's solo for a little bit to transcript a pop tune. And once you do,

Well, hold on. Before we end this episode, we do have a listener tune. This is traveling at night by Burke in Grafia. Nice. Yeah. That's going to ride us out.

Check it out, and you'll hear it. The sky gets blue sunny days sometimes feel that we don't put my trust in the visible line and scoundrels come out of wood. Just don't let them get that you're good don't let them guess that you're