You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - Stop Using Scales

Episode Date: January 30, 2023

Adam and Peter discuss a new OS concept called "hinging". See how this concept can help your playing. Have a question for us? Leave us a SpeakPipeCheckout courses from Adam, Peter and more at Open StudioLet us know what you think by leaving a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review, or head over to our YouTube channel.Follow us on Instagram

Yeah. Hey, Peter. Hey, surely you've heard of the concept of swinging. I know you have. Yes. Have you heard of that? Very familiar with it. Very.

Almost too cocky about it, actually. Have you ever heard of the concept of hinging? Not familiar at all with that. Well, not surprised because we just made it up. I'm Adam Manus. And I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to the You'll Hear Podcast. Oh, music advice coming at you from down low.

Hold on. How did that happen? Hey. Hey, how you doing? That was, okay, I'm going to try to. If you're not on the YouTube, you miss that. Music advice coming out. I had a quick...

Now I'm up too high. We're having some seat adjustment issues here. We have these fancy... What do you call these kind of chairs? They're nice. Like Aaron chairs. Aaron. Kind of, yeah.

They're aeron dynamic. I mean, they're office chairs. Yeah, but right before we started that, this just shows how professional we are. We didn't miss a beat. We missed a couple beats. But, you know, I went plopping down in my chair, but it's all good.

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Right. Yeah. But first, I want to know about this because I know what a hinge is, and like this is, like this is a hinge, right? But I don't understand the concept. It's not that I don't understand it. I don't know what the hell it is. Well, so the title of this episode...

The title of this episode is Stop Using Scales. No, I will not stop using them. I love scale. No, but what I really mean is something that we've been talking a lot about at Open Studio Pro, and I'm actually working on a new course called Hearing Great Harmony, Peter. What do you know about that? We're going about that a little bit later. Pro, look at that.

Yeah. Pro. And so we've been going over this concept. and it really it stems out of a lot of Barry Harris material but also there's this great arranger string arranger named Russell Garcia who did a lot of amazing string arrangements for people

like Margaret Whiting and Frank Sinatra and others but he wrote a book called the contemporary I believe it's called the contemporary composer and arranger it's really just like a dance band arranging book which is kind of amazing but he has this concept he doesn't call it hinging but it's chord based and I know a lot of people from

like music educators from his generation talked about this like we got And this is actually could be a broader conversation and maybe not for this episode but I would love to talk to you about because there is this delineation between like the bebop musicians

and how they think about music and theory and how to go about it and like Herbie Hancock and the people who are more modal or scale oriented or whatever but building your chords with this way I find to be very liberating and this is what we're calling

in Open Studio Pro sort of the hinge way of doing it. Yeah. Not cringe way, the hinge way. No, no, no. So, well, why don't you tell me what it is? Then I can join in on the discussion. I'm super confused. Well, no, I'm just super ignorant. So often you might think about, I mean, there still is like a scale involved,

but it really is more about diatonic. It's about the key more than it's about the scale. So we're in the key of C major. Right, we know that we can build chords up by skipping a note, right? Yeah. A jazz arpeggio. A jazz arpeggio. but you know oftentimes we're taught that we use so oftentimes we're taught that we can add extensions to these chords in jazz

I know where you're going right? Yeah so the hinge concept and sort of Russell Garcia's concept is more based off of seventh chords you stick with one three five seven right these notes are sort of core to this concept in that every and this is kind of where we've landed on our own working through this in Open Studio Pro, and it's a really fun exercise. It's not like the only way, but I've found this, especially with things like constructing voicings and arrangements, can be a very freeing way to think about how harmony moves. It's going to get you to a similar thing of even like Fred Hirsch or Bach or that kind of

voicing, but you start with this four part, one three, five, seven harmony. Each one of these tones, the one, the three, the five, and the seven, it needs to be represented even as you change them. So the first thing you could do is, say, hinge your root up to the nine. Right? 1-357 is represented. We've got the 3 is natural, the 5 is natural, and the 7 is natural. The root is represented, but it's hinged up to the 9.

In other words, you're not adding the 9. You're hinging the root up to the 9, right? And you could do the same thing with the 5, right? We could do, say, up to the 13 or the 6, right? You can go down a half step to the sharp 11, right, or the flat 5. Thinking about this, though, what it does, if you think about this as, so even if this is at a sharp 11, right, your G is down to an F sharp, it's representing, it's an avatar of the five.

You're still one, three, five. Like, you should be able to go through with this concept, any four-note voicing. By the way, the bass note is a separate issue. The base note is its own thing. So it's just the root. It's in the base. This is the four-part harmony, right? So this 5 is represented in the sharp 11.

What this does... So we'd be calling it a sharp, a flat 5 then? I would call it a flat 5 then, right? What this does is it adds a direction and a sort of function to these extensions other than just like we're adding thickness and layers to this. Because now this flat 5, it wants to go somewhere. This 6 or 13 can move back to its home, right? This is especially salient in dominant chords.

If we go to G7, so here's our G7 core, right? I've got my bass, right, the G, and that could be any note of the triad or even the seven. We've got the G here, and we've got our four-part harmony. I'm going to put the root on top. So I've got B, D, F, and G, right? The third, the five, the seven, and the root. And again, we can hinge any of these, really. And dominant chords are the most malleable, as we know, of any kind of.

of theory, right? But in the hinge theory where everything is represented one, three, five, seven, you can just move them around. The dominant chord is sort of endless in how this works. So the root, which I have here on top of my voicing, of course we can hinge it up to the nine, like we did with the major seven. But of course, the root can hinge to the sharp nine, to the flat nine. And then when you realize this, you can say like, okay, as long as the root is represented in the harmony, I can move this all around. You hear this is like how Russell Garcia, who's an arranger, is like thinking about this stuff. and you hear it in these great old string arrangements, right? It's not just a flat nine based off of the diminished scale. Yeah, right?

It has a function, has a weight, a gravity, it goes somewhere, right? So thinking about the harmony as hinging up and down off of these core one, three, five, sevens, and then using chromaticism and voice leading to get it somewhere is a lot different than saying, okay, I have half step, whole step, half step, whole step, and I have this, and this is part of it, and I can move it around. That's cool, and that has its, way, but this is a different way to think about it. And check it out. So that's just the root

that's hinging. On a dominant chord, the five can, of course, again, hinge down to the sharp 11 or the flat 5. You got the flat 13, you got the 13. The third can hinge up a little suss, right? So everything is kind of, and you have all

of this. The only thing that on the domicor course doesn't really hinge is the dominant 7. You could do a major, but it kind of gets a little not dominant sounding, right? But everything else, in various combinations and now you have all this like like this amazing things that can weave in and out you have all this voice leading and the only rule is no matter what four-note voicing and this course can be open or closed or whatever I'm doing this basic

closed it has to represent one three five or seven right so you have to have each of those four core one three five seven and nothing above that and nothing well I mean until you hinge like the root can hinge to the nine and of course you know that you can have the 13 in there as the five hinges up to that. But only as alterations of those, the 1, 3, 5, or 7. You're not adding. It's not additive where you're doing the traditional up there, right? You're just thinking of this as that 9 is representing the root in the chord.

I love it. So it's a little bit of a restrictive framework. It's a restrictive framework for chord alteration. And it gets you to this place of, like I said, it's very similar, I think. I don't think, you know, Barry Harris was thinking like this, but it gets you a very similar place to that. And I think it's actually closer to sort of the bebop style of thinking about this than like scale running. Scale running or building your chords based off of like Phrygian and then we're going to build all this stuff. And now we can add extensions to the top and whatever.

And you can pretty much anything goes and we add. This is like very restrictive. If you do this as sort of an exercise, even if you just like do what I'm doing here, where you go through changes, right? And you put just the base note in the left hand and that's its own separate thing. And you go through a tune. Like if you just go through a blues, and you do this, you get all this beautiful voice leading that you don't even realize it's available to you

if you're thinking about a scale. Because if I'm thinking about going from 13 to flat 13 on a dominant chord, I'm thinking about what's the scale that's appropriate, that's associated with it? This takes that all away. It doesn't matter. There's no scale associated with it. It's just 1,357.

And you're hinging up and down. And as long as everything's represented, you're good. I love it. And I kind of understand it. I think that was a great description. and just I understand the concept. That's what's important. I think folks, when they learn new theory

or a new word that describes a musical concept, there's the theoretical aspect of it. There's the application of it, which, of course, is sort of the most important thing because that's going to be the closest to the manifestation of the music that we hear. And what's immediately coming to me with this is like, you know, even though you're saying it's 1, 3, 5, 7,

So like B flat major. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But even if you're over like a C7, because you were saying how like the root doesn't really matter. Yeah. Exactly. Where you kind of float that on top, how you can still get into those upper extensions in a different kind of way.

All of those hits or up to here, you know, like everything has, as long as it's represented, that 1,357 is represented. Anything's fair game. And you can use your ear and there doesn't have to be a scale that's involved in it. Yeah. It's like whatever is working with that combination. of four notes works. And it's great too because it gives you the ability

like I always feel like when I've always been a little bit adverse to thinking too deeply about upper extensions, 9th, 11, sharp 11, 13,

flat, you know, anything above the octave as always above the octave because the actual application for improvising doesn't lend itself always to that. So I love this concept.

So in other words, if I'm on like C7, that's not like scale base, but it, is based upon this sort of these little alterations that are not just

it's not based it's like where you're going up up into the upper extension and then you start to alter them well even something as basic is like

you know right has this concept is sort of part of that idea or something like and you can use the Indian version on this is cool

for the one three five seven open voices in fact using open voicing in like a drop two is enlightening right so if you have so so

right so I have this this little five-note thing here it's a C-7 to an F major right and the opening C is C and again the root the base note and I don't call it the root the base note is separate it's its own thing so it could be it could be any of those things up to kind of the bass player or the very bottom of your right hand so the bass note is C and I have B flat E, A, and D right? And you're thinking well Adam where's root 3, 5, 7 in those four notes? Well root is this D yeah

D is the root hinged up. The A is the 5, right? And now I can work any of these as I work my way back to F7. And I can work the F7. I can hinge. And there's no scale. There's not like I'm going now to like, you know, with this. So here I have the A is now an A flat or G sharp.

Right? So I don't have to think, oh, is that whole tone? Like, no. This is what it is. And any of these melodically work. And it actually kind of works melodically. You can think about this. I was thinking Bill Labman, Shirley Horn, she definitely

understand this concept. Hank Jones, you hear this in a lot of players. Even if they're not thinking of this, it's kind of a fun way to get that sound. It's like a counterpoint exercise almost where it's going to get you to sound like Hayden. This kind of gets you to sound like some of those great arrangers and pianists who are also great arrangers.

It's a little bit of a restricted concept. It's kind of a cheat code to getting you to be able to hear some things that are simple but important kind of melodic. almost like backing yourself into the corner in some really cool way. I was, I just was working on a video that's going to hopefully come out soon about... Overjoy.

And I'm thinking now, this concept kind of, because I was, this actually is probably not going to make into the video because I ended up talking about pentatonic is what it's going to be about, which was fun. But the idea is like, how do you not play this like a jazz musician where it's like... Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Just filling it up with extensions and stuff. Yeah, and it's like, yeah, it's major, but the thing is the melody. is right on the one. So it's always like like what are we going to do like a major six nine. But we don't necessarily just want to be

triad either. And if you think if you see the things like and Stevie was real slick the way he'd move in and out of these things, what you can hear on the recording and hear him do live. But I came up with some different ideas where you can add a jazz sensibility in terms of because

the material has a very well I don't need to go into it here but I'll say just for the hinging thing that was kind of a light bulb moment with you explaining this is like these kind of voices this is actually root 1, 3, 5, 7

but then I'm hinging down the 3rd to the 9th Say it again, it's root Yeah, so it's actually the 7th on the bottom Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but then I'm hinging the 3rd down to the 9th Is that considered hinging? Absolutely, yeah. And then I might double down like the 3rd there

but the idea is that, you know, like how do you make something that sounds and that's kind of an hinge thing over B flat too without like just widening it out which we know we can do but that sort of forces into a different kind of sound that we might not want. Yeah, this would be like a five note

hinge voice thing with the melody on time. Yeah, exactly. It's a really fun sort of game you can play. Because that, you know, root 3, 5, 7 on the bottom that's a sound but then that's a very different sound, right? Where you're just putting that F instead of the G. Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. And that would be, you know, technically that's like a Suss 2, right? But again, what scale is that? It's just the key of E flat. That's what we're thinking of here. And it's with, you know, all of this. Even like if you're on a B flat 7, like this, right? This is a hinged B-flat dominant chord, right?

Where here's our 7. So this is A-flat, C, E-flat, and G. Right? So like B-flat-7 c's. But this is just this, where we're hinging the root up to the nine, the third, up to the four, and the five, up to the three. It's all represented right there. It's all represented in that. And what's cool about that then is, like, that's where all this comes from.

You know, all of this can move as part of it, you know. So it's a really, it's much simpler than something that can be a little bit more elaborate, like some of various concepts. But I love it. And check out. And are all inversions are legal on this? All inversions. and closed, all legal. Check out Russell Garcia's, I think it's the

contemporary arranger and composer. It's from the, I think, the 50s or 60s. So it's got some dated stuff, and it has this. And shout out to our Open Studio Pro member, John W., who came up with the term hinging. We were talking about, what is this? And he's like, oh, those notes are hinging up and down. Interesting. Okay, so, well, I was

going to say, yeah, you can check that up, but also check out Adam Manus and Open Studio Pro if you're into these kinds of... What I would consider this is a very nerdy theoretical concept that has... great applications, though. It has really practical, simple applications, for sure. Yeah, and that leads us into interesting places

and explanations of things that you can be like, oh, wow. Yeah. I can hear, you know, Shirley Horn was hinging all over to place now that I understand it. And be on the lookout, too. This is part of my new course here in Great Harmony that I'm currently recording

and should be out in a few weeks. Available to all Open Studio members. Yeah, it's going to be... Go to openstiojazz.com. You know what I'm saying? If you're into this kind of thing... I mean, if we're going to shell for ourselves here, why don't you read some ratings and reviews, man.

Well, for sure. But I'm just saying, like, if you made it, first of all, thank you for making it this far into the podcast. But if you like this kind of stuff. Oh, they're riveted. And you have time. If you want, look, this is the way we're doing things. It's very simple over at Open Studio. I don't know if you know that now.

We have two different courses of action. Yeah. Calls to action. You can become an Open Studio member. That's right. Very popular. Or you can become an Open Studio Pro member. Also popular.

And really the main difference is the live element, the community element. You're part of the community when you come in. And the price. Yeah. And the price is a little bit. Yeah. But I'm saying, like, if you've got the time and the inclination to really want to move quickly with, like, a community that you'll get to know with live sessions with such. I mean, I know this sounds crazy.

You will actually have some live access via Zoom to none other than Adam Mann. And Peter Martin. And to Peter Martin. And Chris Park. And Jeremy Cisker. And Jeremy Ciskin. One of the great YouTube piano. Jeffrey Kieser.

Ruben Rogers. John O'Leary, who's a new teacher, has become very popular. So if you want to go pro, or you can just come as a regular Open Studio member, dab your dab. your feet, as they would say? Yeah, Open Studio membership is about the information, and the Open Studio Pro is the information plus the community and the feedback. Exactly. For the cost of a latte, one latte per week, you know?

And if you're rich, you can do both. All right, ratings and reviews. Here we go. We have two new reviews. Thank you guys, because I know, like, leaving a review on Apple podcast is kind of a pain in the... I'm not a fan of... Leaving reviews.

No, I am a fan of you leaving reviews. us reviews, but we appreciate it. I don't want to say it's a pain of the ass so that you don't go do it. Figure it out. Come on, you can do it. Gentleman's agreement. We're going to provide you. This is gentleman's agreement crap again. No, you know what I'm saying? Like, if you shake on something. Are we going to duel at the end of this episode?

Exactly. If people don't leave us ratings reviews, we may. But the idea is that we give you this podcast. Look, you just learned about... There was a gentleman's agreement, sir. Yeah, why are you got to be Irish? Scottish, Scottish. Big shout out to my Scottish family in Edinburgh. I thought I was just being fancy. You were being very fancy.

So, no, the idea is that we provide you with this amazing podcast for free. There's no charge. There's no gain. They know, they're already in there. Why do you bristle when I say this? Because you're just adding complexity. Why does this shape you? We make it, they listen, they leave us a review.

That's all that is. That's the agreement. That's what I'm saying. Okay. That's what I bring formality into it. Did they need to sign a contract? What's going on? This is a gentleman's agreement.

No, in that we're, no, you know what it is? Do they have to be gentlemen? Let me explain it to you. It's like the PBS Pledge drive. You don't have to... Because that's what we want this show to be. We are the PBS of jazz podcast, the music podcast. No, the idea is that we are going to provide this...

It's not like we're like, we're waiting for them to give us the rating review, and then we're going to provide it. We're providing in advance. That's the gentlemanly part. We're opening the door for you. All we ask for... It's not even an even exchange. All they got to go...

It takes like 30 seconds to do this. This takes us hours. This takes us hours. This kind of crap, too. Anyway, leave us a rating review and subscribe to the YouTube channel. That's it. Check out our open studio swag here, Kelly. Let's see, exactly.

Okay, here's the first one. Okay, go ahead. Motivational, five stars. Keeps me motivated and engaged in the jazz community. I always want to practice after listening. Word. Thank you to Tan Man Plan Stan. Tan Man Plan Stan from the United States of America.

And then our second rating review, learning the language, five stars. If you want to learn a language, go live, go live, where they speak it and immerse yourself. So this guy is so in going live. He loves going live. We go live every day. We go live every day. Put the bell on.

If you want to learn a language, go live where they speak it. You know what? I want to go learn English. I want to go to America where they speak it and I can learn it because I can't read it. If you want to learn a language, go live where they speak it and immerse yourself. This is the place to learn the language of music and jazz. Adam and Peter talking music. And for once, I'm starting to get it.

This is the best podcast. I found in a long time. Thanks for doing this, guys. Thank you, Rich Grimshaw from the United States of America. That's saying a lot talking about us like that. We're public school kids, right? Yeah. We're not, obviously.

You know, we're barely graduates. Some of us, ha, ha, ha, ha. Anyway, thank you guys for being here. Thank you, Adam. Thank you, producer, Caleb. Thank you to listeners. Until next time, hinge it. You'll hear it.