You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - Straight from LG himself.

Episode Date: March 9, 2022

A special episode of You'll Hear It that puts a spotlight on our sister podcast Upright Citizens. Bob DeBoo and Reuben Rodgers do an in-depth interview with Larry Grenadier.  You find this episode here. Have a question for us? Leave us a SpeakPipeCheckout courses from Adam, Peter and more at Open StudioLet us know what you think by leaving a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review, or head over to our YouTube channel.Follow us on Twitter | Instagram

How's it going? This is You'll Hear It. We got a real special episode for you today, so stay tuned. All right, all right, all right. So, if you're tuning in today, that means you're probably a fan of the You'll Hear It podcast, maybe, hopefully. You're probably aware of Open StudioJazz.com where you can find a lot of amazing educational resources for you and your instrument. But you may not be aware that we have a sister podcast. Sister Brother, Sister Brother podcast called Upright Citizens. This podcast is hosted by Bob Dubu. He's known for playing with David Sandborn

and just being the Bob Ross of the bass, teaching us how to play bass every day. And Ruben Rogers, who has played with a number of stars, Charles Lloyd, you know, Joshua Redman, the list goes on. So they have a podcast where they really get to talk

to each other about bass culture and interview some amazing legends of the instrument. So I wanted to bring you here at You'll Hear It an episode of their podcast where they interview Larry Grenadier. I really hope you enjoy it. Welcome, welcome, one and all to another episode of Upright Citizens, your home of everything bass-centric. And this is Ruben Rogers speaking. and my other base partner in crime, Mr. Bob DeBoo.

What's up, Rubin? How you doing, brother? Doing great. Great to see you. All right. All right. You're there living in a very colorful Missouri. I know things are a little interesting here right now.

Good word for Missouri. Yes. Yeah, it's beautiful. Tell me about it. I'm out here in Santa Cruz. And we have a special guest today. He's actually in Kingston, New York. I'd like to actually, you know, give some superlatives to describe this young gentleman.

You know, I use young as quotes, right? But I mean, we try not, we prepare some for this, for this podcast usually, but I'd like to leave some room for some kind of spontaneity, which is my spontaneity, which was right before we got on. this whole thing and give my brother this this this uh give his respect and you know words of love you know while we can and what how can I describe this this young man he's a true virtual so dexterous dexterous imaginative I wrote these down if you all then if you like this and and his sound and his base personality is infectious you know I have these students that come to me every once in a while. And you can always tell who they're influenced by,

you know, you can hear the Ron Connors, you can hear the Ray Browns, you can hear maybe sometimes Jimmy Garrison, even the Christian McBride. And this young man falls right in there in that same lane. Whenever I hear these bases, I always tell them never be a bad imitation of so-and-so, because no one wants to hear that, you know.

But it's almost hard for that because these gentlemen have very, you know, transcendent sounds and infectious personalities on the instrument. But that's it. We'd like to introduce the great, legendary, Mr. Larry Grenadere. What's up, L.G? Great, great, great, great pleasure to share this time with you guys

and talk everything about bass. Yes, yes, yes. Yes, here we are. Yeah, thanks for taking the time, brother. I mean, I know, of course. I was going to say out of your busy schedule, but let's say semi-busy schedule in this crazy time that we're all living in, right? Well, you know, it's like either wash the dishes or do the laundry

or go to the grocery store. I mean, the days do fill up, right? It's funny how that is, right? Yeah. I mean, shoot, that you actually have a schedule. I'm like, wait, did I touch the base? Oh, one on. I just touched the base.

unfortunately but anyway always thinking about it though right yeah it's always in the back of my my brain my mind right here this big old noggin i got but anyway uh well let's start let's start let's start with you know we're gonna creep you know from back and bring it forward uh and keep it keep it kind of condensed but um you of course you play with some great musicians you know the joe hendison to the stand gets obviously to the Brad Meldowell Dowell, Johnny Griffin, there's a whole list of people that we can, we can, you know, talk about that you play with. But let's focus on in the early days. Obviously, you were listening with people who were listening to you.

Heavy musicians experienced, right? Experience listeners also on and off the bandstand, right? Would you say your sound or your time conception, conception, where it was developed from just being around those people or just kind of like knowing that you had to be in a certain kind of lane to to even play with these kind of people. I mean, give us, give us like a little synopsis of what that was like playing in those times and how it influenced your your son and your conception. Sure. I mean, I think, you know, the ability to that I, the chances that I had as a youngster like, you know, teenage. specifically you know like 16 through up to 20 well through college let's say was that I was extremely lucky to kind of be at that moment where I could still play with a lot of different people coming through town who didn't have a

rhythm section who expected the the local rhythm section to deal enough so it didn't mess them up right I think that's all they really were hoping for you know like to just don't mess my shit up yeah You know, at a young age to find out what people expected from the bass, what they thought, well, this is, you know, this is a given that the bass player provides this, these services to the music. You know, as opposed to, you know, going through a music school and learning, learning kind of little backwards, you know, like you kind of learn about the instrument and you, you know, you kind of get it together. but as far as the actually pragmatic, practical aspects of playing gigs, you kind of get that later typically. Or you're getting it with your contemporaries at school in that time.

Right, right, right. So because I had it from older, more experienced musicians, I think that really quickly turned me on to like, this is what I need to get together, like, tonight. Right, right, tonight. I got to learn this tune tonight. I got to be able to play this group. Well, with that, I mean, I mean, I think all of us have a very similar background in coming to the music and actually getting to the, you know, the crux of all the nitty gritty of the music in that sense.

But would you say, were you very studied before as far as in, I mean, technically and, you know, proficient and what that before or that also come as come as you played those gigs? It really came. It really came as I played. I mean, I was just hanging on by my fingertips. You know, like, you know, the thing with bass, as we all know, is that you can get away with a lot of stuff, you know, until somebody with some, some, you know, more ears says, wait a second, you know, why you're playing that note or, you know. And unfortunately, unfortunately, a lot of people don't have anyone. They never have anyone actually do that, right? They don't, someone to tap you and show them and be like, oh.

They're like, they're like, they're like, they're just so happy. to have a bass player who play a little bit, they're like, whatever, it's cool. Right. You know? Yeah. And as we get better, we play with better musicians, we see the potential for hearing about what people consider hearing and listening. And, you know, that was the thing I noticed with these, you know, really monumental musicians

early on was that they were hearing everything I was playing. So that was like a shock to the system. Right, right. So you have to get it together as quickly as possible just to make it through the week of gigs, you know. Right, right, right. But so my level was really, you know, I took bass lessons right away when I grabbed the upright, but they were all classical lessons. So it was just like that was my way of learning the instrument was through Samandal and,

you know, Boeing technique and stuff like that. Right, right. So did you play some electric bass though early on? Yes. So I already played electric bass. I played for a few years. Yeah. I was, you know, playing, you know, pop music really.

Right, boom. Okay. All right. Okay. Well, I mean, so moving. Moving forward, obviously you were playing with all these incredible musicians from a young age, but now we bring it to now, I mean, since you've had all this musical experience, I know you must get this question, you know, here and there or have had it before. Are there any, like, highlights in your career that you could just, if you could just pinpoint two or three, I know there's like 700, two or three that come to your mind right now that stand out to you.

you, what would you say? Wow, I mean, that's a little tricky. I mean, there are certain moments of, like, the curtain was lifted a bit, where I could see a bit more of the mechanics of what it, what's going. Like, you know, so much of it is just reactive and kind of guessing, you know. It was so much about, especially with older musicians where they never really, I mean, they might say something specific every once in a while, but most of their comments were pretty encoded, you know.

So it would take me time to decode them, you know. So, but there were moments where it's like, ah, you know, I get to see it a little bit more. I remember one was, one was playing with this great drummer, Donald Bailey, who was living in San Francisco when I was a teenager. I saw you there at the Stanford Jazz Workshop with him. Oh, right. Right. I did some duo.

That was the last time I got to spend some time with him. Oh, really? Oh, okay. Yeah, and just I had played with some great drummers before that, but the way he played, the approach the instrument was really like, okay, this is a whole other way of playing time that was incredibly swinging, but it felt like there was four different things going on. Each limb was kind of on its very independent world.

So when I first heard it and played with it, it was really awkward. And then as the week went on, it's like I could relax into it and just kind of just focus on really on this ride symbol. And it was like, oh, man. And it kind of brought together this thing of time playing for me, which was getting a little bit too heady at that moment where I was thinking about placement of the beat too much

in the midst of making music. And at the same time, I was reading this autobiography of Mingus. where he talks about this big circle of a beat and you can play, there's a center to the circle but you could play anywhere in that circle and this playfulness about music, where it wasn't all academic and up in your head. That was one of those, ah, you know,

I could see a bit more of the depth of potential of making music and having a conversation and still having it feel good, but kind of, you know, no rules in a way, you know, of just, If it feels good, it's probably a good place to be at that moment. I want to touch on that, what I just said when you play with Don Bailey. Sorry, Donald Bailey. Yeah, right?

Donald Bailey. I'm getting at this workshop in Stanford. I think we both were doing base duties at that time, right? Right. Right. But I think you were doing the big workshop and some, I don't know if maybe I came in for one day and sub for you for a day. I can't remember exactly. But I do remember you doing like a small concert just duo with Donald Bailey.

Oh, wow. Like at the at the the workshop, right? And and like man, I mean, I think I came to check it out to see what y'all are doing because I think you were like, I don't remember how what would happen. But I think you had to leave or do something. You probably had to go to like Japan for like two days and come back. And I was like, I was like, I, like, I don't remember. I was going to just do a sub for you for that day. And I got to tell you, when I saw your dude, I think you were explaining something, but then your play, mostly played.

That alone was so intimidating to me in the moment that, like, I mean, it was such on a high level, let's both of you doing this thing. I'm like, what can I come in the next day and tell these dudes that would inspire them after seeing y'all, like, do this, like, transcendent kind of like, duo thing that was like, you know what? There it is. Y'all should all go home now. You know what I mean? I was like, okay. I mean, I think I just like, hey, guys, let's just play a B flat scale next day or something.

You know what I don't even remember what happened, but I do remember that. So that's funny with talking about this. That is, man. I remember you being around that week though for sure. I mean, this is the funny thing about teaching to me, you know, because not having gone to music school, having learned most everything through playing, but then having students, well, you know, ask, well, how do you do such and such? Yeah. And I can't just say, well, you know,

go get a gig with somebody who's really great and just, you know, pay attention and be in the moment. So I have to kind of backtrack, not to make shit up, but I have to, like, create a way to think about things, you know, that, that, that, that, students can relate to and grow from them. But there's something about just playing with people and, you know, students kind of just,

whether it's osmosis or whatever it is, you know, just kind of taking in that information on a cellular level, you know, as it comes into them, where they, where they, they may not even get it really. They may not know really what's going on, but they soak it up for later use, I think. Yes. Yes. Yes. So there's a place for that as well. It's just talking. But it's all in real time, too.

Everything is in real time. I remember that for myself too. That, like, I mean, I think we all get this like, being like, oh, shoot, man, I'll do this. Oh, my God. You know, right. I mean, it's kind of squirrel it back in the back of your brain. I mean, if I even have to say one of the first times coming to the stage from St. Thomas

And seeing one one of the first basis I actually saw play live this is funny. Bob knows this was Christian McBride for me. You didn't know that. Which was like, you know, I was like, I know, does everybody play like this?

Exactly. He's ripping through the base. And I'm like, I didn't even own an upright base. Wow. I was playing electric base. I was aspiring like, oh, I hope I can afford to get one with, you know, within this year of being at Berkeley. And but that, that, that, I always squirrel that.

And my, my, Brian, what was, what was, what could happen. I mean, obviously didn't realize he was a free. in that moment, but it was just like, back of my brain, okay, well, I'm aspiring to hopefully play like this and it stayed with me, you know what I mean? Those, those things over the years. Exactly. Yeah. Well, that's it, you know, like your initial thing about asking about like developing sound and all this stuff, you know, for me, it's really just, you just constantly eating stuff up. You're feeding off. You're being inquisitive. You're being open to a lot of different influences base, electric bass, other instruments, and feeding off the potential of sound.

And so your palate just grow, you know, that's the idea. Well, I mean, that's what I, it's kind of hard for me to even like ask that question sometimes because I realize we all have our personality. We all have our own like divine thing, right? And some voices are, you're just like, some voices are just a little louder and more distinct than others and gravitate towards on any instrument. but it's funny I never thought about

conception of this because I just want to play you know and I remember this friend of mine in in St. Thomas who wasn't even a big jazz fan but he was like really he just

you know we are good friends from high school but he was just knowledgeable and smart in a certain kind of way early on like as I started to do gigs he was like he he told me one time he said to me he says Rubin do you realize that you are now

starting your development and being a part of the jazz tradition he said that to me and I was like, what the hell are you talking about? I was like, he's like, he's like, you're in a position to do that. Do you even realize that? And I didn't even think about it, you know, at that time,

I was like, I don't give a shit. You know what I mean? I just want to play the gig because I love playing this music not until maybe a decade later that I think about those words, he said, as time went on. And I was like, you know, but it was never like a part of it's like, I need to create a certain sound. This is my sound or whatever. I mean, because we're all developing in our own pace and hopefully, you know, our voice is maturing and going on and and leave it at that, you know.

Anyway. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. It's on an intellectual pursuit for sure. Yeah. You know what I mean? But,

I mean, of course, it starts to be developing a certain credit depending on the kind of things you end up, you know, choosing to play. Exactly. You know what I mean? And you surround yourself with, you know. And you start to sculpt, it starts to sculpt this way in that way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Take it over, Bob.

Yeah. So the experiential level, you know, or the experiential process, you know, like I was even curious, Larry, when you were first, you know, the first few notes playing with somebody like Joe Henderson or those first few notes with Stan gets, were you, you know, being, did you have this conception that you should be intimidated playing with them or anything like preconceived going into that situation? That's a funny question because, you know, when you're young, well, I was, you know, I was young. I was 18 or so.

I was too, too dumb to be, to know really what, like I should be really intimidated, you know, Like, you know, to be really aware that I really wasn't prepared, you know, just kind of jump in and do what you can do and learn from it. I mean, luckily, like with Joe, I was able to play with him later once I moved to New York. And so I had a bit more together by then, you know. But if I had to play with those guys now, I'd be really scared. Yeah, totally. I can only imagine.

Yeah. But the fearlessness. Yeah, the fearlessness of youth, for sure. Biggness is bliss. exactly no no no um i was really curious too because you all spoke on a little bit about the again the experiential learning in in relationship to the intellectual or the school-based learning or you know even with a private teacher and so learning all you know all this information and being open to it and understanding what it is you know like that that needs to happen for the gig you know i i'm

aware that you know also going back to stanford you went and studied you didn't study music at Stanford University, right? You got an English degree at Stanford. So was that an intentional? Did you, I'm just curious, like, was that intentional or were you just really into literature? I went, I started as a music major for about a month, and it just wasn't set up for me to really, it wasn't the best use of my time, let's say, there, you know. Study music? Yeah, they had some interesting programs going on. but it really wasn't in my my world was that mainly because you're already playing gigs with like some of the best musicians in the world yeah i mean i mean yeah it's just like you know a school

like that especially back then um you know its focus was not on jazz bass let's say you know so once i saw the the other departments you know what was going on it was like okay i think you know i think i think i'll do something else but also i really was able to do that because i was doing a lot of gigs in San Francisco at that time where I felt like, well, there's my jazz education. I don't really need to duplicate it during the daytime. Right. Yeah. And that's also why I stayed in California was that I kind of had this nice setup, you know,

where I could play with a lot of different people. If I had lived in New York, it would have been a whole different thing for me. I would have gone to a music school. They would have called Ron Carter, you know. I mean, it's like there was all these, I would just never had those experiences. Oh, no. So it was something. something that I think was probably the right move at the time.

I mean, I always say that too, man. It's like, I mean, of course, it's luck also. It's luck. I feel the same, you know, it's quite different, quite different. But as far as in just trying to develop, when I came from the Virgin Islands to Berkeley, it was a perfect time where like a lot of names you know now in music were there or getting ready to leave just were there. And also there weren't like very few upright bass players that was trying to play jazz.

Like you know what I mean? And I was just happened to find my niche right, right at the right time to actually play with some of the best musicians in the city. And then people coming in because it was a little hub coming from New York, starting to network like that. It's like it just happened. You know, those, the timing is always, it's so interesting how. that is and how I always feel when I think back, I'm like how lucky it was.

Because even if it was like a year later, you know, I could, I would definitely be back in St. Thomas, you know, teaching his school, you know, living a beautiful life. Don't get me wrong. You know what I mean? But it just be different, you know what I mean? No, absolutely, man. But, you know, I think it speaks to like this, I don't know, it's something I've been thinking about a lot lately with COVID and everything where, or actually when I was out in Europe

in July and seeing. and some people play again. And, you know, it's like at a certain point, everybody can play. You know, like, they all know the tunes. They all can keep time. You know, they don't fall apart. So it's like, well, what are we, what else are we really want from the music that we take in that we hear?

And it's like, you want them to have this personality, to have their own voice to, like, just some freshness and some curiosity. And I think it becomes like a more of a personality. traits at a certain point of being open to a lot of different things and taking it in and jazz has always been such a beautiful music for me because it's so inclusive right you can just feed off of everything and bring it bring it into our into our world and up and so I think like you know your ability to be you know to go to Boston at the time you went to to take in that information to grow from it or you know whatever whatever the situation is it's like that's really a big part of

of why you succeeded, you know, because of like your openness to taking the stuff in and then saying, okay, this is, I'm just like taking this, and it's feeding through my own little filter and what comes out in the end is completely you, but unique to you because you took in these influences. I mean, because we all, like, we all listen to the same mainly, you know, there's always the other, the people that some people might have missed, but, you know, most of us say, Oh, yeah, Ray Brown, Ron Carr, Richard Davis, Paul Chambers. You know, it's like, yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. So we take in this information, but how come we don't sound like any of them really in the end?

Right, right. And so I think that's something just to kind of keep in mind for a student, too, is like, oh, yeah, I'm doing this for a reason, but I'm not really, I'm not searching for my sound, really. I'm not actively. It's just going to come through and it comes through your personality. Yeah, definitely. I was listening to a great interview. with BB King recently

when he was talking about his early days of getting his sound together and he put it as I was basically a bad I was trying to do impersonate all so-and-so Charlie Christian down the line of all these blues grates

and I was really just doing a bad impersonation of all of them and eventually I came to my own sound and I was like if Bebe King somebody with that type of a voice you know and a unique and just sound enveloping like that has that same process

than us as bass players or just musicians in general. Yeah, you absorb all that in and you imitate, you learn, you keep your ears open, but you'll never be those people. So on that front, you know, like as far as like outside influences, is there anything like outside music that influences your music or the way you play bass or anything like that directly that you know?

I mean, if you get down to it, I think everything, right? I mean, how you deal with people, you know, how you talk with people, people, how your relationships are like, how you spend your off time, you know, what you're doing. And I think it's just kind of this openness, and especially for bass players who are, where we're, it's an essential quality that we can bring the music together, you know, from our standpoint in the middle of the band and kind of be this fulcrum to make, as the music changes from second to second to kind of just be awake in it and to have ideas about how to make it sound better. I think that those are like human qualities that we can develop.

Yeah. You know, outside of practicing Samandal or transcribing Paul Chambers. I always say, I mean, I said this in another podcast that we are personality managers on and off the bad stuff. Right. Right. Like we like, we kind of, I mean, I didn't even realize this. until much later on in my career, how that asset is probably what has, you know,

helped me actually along and be in many circumstances or situations where, like, why am I here? Why even quit calling me? There can be somebody else you could definitely call to do this, whether it be good or bad. You know what I mean? Right, right. And that part, you know, be like, oh, okay, oh, okay, you know, all right. But it was never forced. You can't teach that.

You just kind of like, you know, you just have to move along and figure it out as time goes on, you know. That's right. That's so true, man. And it's funny. It's why bass players, you know, on the road, be like, we all hook up and we can have a great time hanging out. Right.

Where it's not always true with other instruments, right? No. I don't know how to name any names, but, you know, but like, you know, get a bunch of lead Trevor players together, you know. I guess that. Whatever, you know. It's because I think we're constantly, we're able to juggle these things and kind of make it all work all the time.

Right. No doubt, man. No doubt. All right, amazing stuff. So again, this is You'll Hear It. Thank you so much for listening. If you like this podcast, remember to like and subscribe. And remember that you can go to openstitiojazz.com

and find a lot of amazing materials to help you and your instrument. Until next time, happy practicing.