You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - Struggling With What To Practice?

Episode Date: December 4, 2023

Knowing how to organize your practice sessions can be tough. We all struggle with it. Trying to stay motivated can be challenging when you aren’t in the right headspace or don’t feel inspired. In this episode, Peter and Adam offer some solutions. ↓ Links from the pod ↓Gabriel Kahane's - Empire Liquor Mart (9127 S. Figueroa St.) (Apartment Sessions)Roberta Flack - Tryin TimesPeter's OS video on Top 10 Greatest Jazz Albums MonoNeon's ManifestoHave a question for us? Leave us a SpeakPipeCheckout courses from Adam, Peter and more at Open Studio🎹 Head over to our YouTube channel for a better look 👀.Follow us on Instagram

And I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to the Yuley Great Piping. Hello. You okay over there? Every time it's new. It's like a maiden voyage. I know. It's every time we do the podcast, it's like the first time the ship has sailed.

Oh, I got to do. And now the ship is definitely, it's sailed over the horizon. It's like there's dolphins dancing in the moonlight. What's up? Nothing, man. How you doing? Good. Excited about this episode.

I am too. You know, you came with this title, and I thought it was a great title because it's something we actually talked about. Yesterday we got on a Zoom call with like a ton of new open studio members. That feels like a lifetime ago. That was yesterday. It was yesterday afternoon, Peter.

It wasn't even 24 hours ago, buddy. New member, hang. I was just an observer. That was amazing. It was great to meet everybody. Welcome to Open Studio to all the new folks. We got a ton of new folks. We have an onslaught of new members.

They're so exciting. They're so excited. And their energy is energizing us. Exactly. And we got a bunch of questions that we thought we could explore further here in our podcast. And one of them was, you know, when I'm struggling to practice, what do I do? Like, when I'm struggling to figure out,

what I should be practicing. What should I do? It's a common question. We get it all the time. Like, what do I do when I don't know what to practice? I have it all the time. We get it all the time, and I question myself with this all the time as well. Well, it's a great question because, and it's human nature, I think, to question, like, am I doing the right thing, right? So first of all, if you are at the piano, yes, you're doing the right thing already. So that's a win. You'll hear it. Getting to the instrument consistently should be your first priority. And then what you do on the instrument after that, of course, it matters for, for, Sure. But just developing your life so that you're living a very musical, consistent life, I think, can be the biggest game changer of all.

Oh, it's huge. And that's probably the actually the biggest part of forming an effective habit. For sure. It's like showing up. Yes. Like we think so much of like, oh, I want to get into the habit of practicing my scales every day. I want to get into the habit of doing my bench presses every day or whatever. But really, the thing should be, I want to, you want to get into the habit of showing up. the instrument. And you've won. You've won. Yeah. Now, now maybe play a little bit since you're there. Don't let, you know, if you're unsure of what you should be practicing, don't let that paralyze you into not practicing at all. Yeah. Just get your instrument and run something you know. If you don't have any idea of what to do, we have some ideas here for you. And one, I think that can be a game changer for people. It's something I've been preaching for the last year or so because it seems so obvious and nobody ever talks about this. But don't give it away. I won't give it away yet. Because I want to first talk about

what I think folks are thinking. I know I'm thinking about this now is like, hold on a second, struggling with what to practice. Yeah, because there's so many great things to practice. Thanks to you guys. Thanks to YouTube. Thanks to great books, great recordings, great ideas. Maybe you go to a jam session and you hear like the overwhelm of great ideas can truly be overwhelming because like if you have some things that you know are not effective. Yes, the overwhelm can be overwhelming. Yeah, yeah. I'm overwhelmed with just the thought. No, but I mean, we're talking about effective. perspective stuff. Like there's a whole other thing of like, oh, I tried this out. It doesn't work for me. That's easy to get rid of. How about getting rid of something good? Would that be something you might be

interested in? Exactly. Let's say you have four kids and you love them all. That's the hardest thing. I don't like if you have like two kids that you love and the other two, you're like, eh, of course you can get rid of it. They're all right. Yeah, yeah. No, so it's like. The little one's kind of a scoundrel. That's right. Yeah. But the idea of like, are you willing to put something back onto the book shelf for another day. Like, are you willing to be at peace with that? Not to say, like, this isn't good for me, but it's to say, like, this other, like, what is the timing of the right thing to practice on a particular day? Because we're all going to have days where, like, you're bam, you're going through the routine and you're hitting everything. You're hitting your technique.

You're hitting your transcription. Your repertoire. You're playing. You're killing it. Like, don't set up your mindset for the perfect practice day. Just be glad when that happened. Set yourself up for the worst practice day. I think it's a tendency. especially people like us, Peter. Any geniuses? Oh, sorry, yeah, piano players. No, and people are age and maybe even gender. Young people.

No, but like, there's this whole optimization bro culture. That's a part of our life. I'm looking at you, Andrew Huberman, right now. We are as guilty as Huberman. Dude, I love that. Can I say, can we form it? Are we both Huberman husbands? Like, if only he could talk about jazz piano, it would be like next level.

I think that's our job, though. No, but we are as guilty of anybody as like trying to optimize your practice routine or get the most out of your time. And the truth is, is I don't know if art works that way all the time. I think you can go through stretches where you can be very productive by thinking about, well, what can I get out of this that will optimize what I'm doing? But I also think that you do need to just run your head up against a brick wall with things occasionally and be frustrated and then having to figure out a way to get around that wall or sometimes through it. Yeah. Can be the most productive thing you can do. And that means frustration.

That means boredom. That means questioning whether you're doing the right thing. It might even feel like regression. It could feel like regression. I don't know an artist alive who hasn't experienced that. It's not all just like perfect. I wake up and I take my cold plunge and then I get to the piano and I feel refreshed and I've meditated for 30 minutes. And I'm, you know what the way Huberman's morning is.

It's kind of my morning is too. But like a lot of mornings too, there were just like me with like no, I don't. idea what to do and a bunch of cigarettes and we figure it out. You know what I mean? Like, that's part of the journey. Like I wouldn't have the Huberman morning without that part of the journey as well. So don't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't dismiss anything that gets brought up by this. And if you're not feeling optimized, just embrace that. It's like, okay, well, I'm not, something is not efficient. But that doesn't mean that you don't live an artistic life. We've quoted Monon's amazing artist manifesto. It's his own personal artist manifesto that he puts at the end of a lot

of his videos. If you don't know Mono, you know, go like and subscribe to everything he does. It's amazing. But at the end of it, and I'm going to paraphrase here, it's, actually, I don't even need to paraphrase, bud. I'm just going to, I have a computer. Hello, computer. I am going to input data. Please export the answer. Computer robot. So Mononion's manifest are one of the very last things. See how he's, see how he's vamping? there until he gets to the next phrase. I got my vamp skills.

I can change. Yeah, no, no, no. It's more like, we're just, we're not changing the chord, we're just voicing, no. And that's a good choice. The last thing of Mononion's art manifesto says, reject the worldly idea of becoming a great musician. Just live music.

That is so powerful. And you had a good paraphrase of that, live a musical life. Live a musical life. Yeah. Which is nice. And the ironic thing is if you design your life that you're just living a musical life, If you're not, you sort of reject the world the idea of becoming a great musician.

Yeah. You tend to sound better. I know. You tend to be more original. You tend to be freer. You tend to practice more. You tend to play more. And that makes you better.

Yeah. And I think it's an interesting lens with which to look at the world beyond just look at your practice routine and look at your relationship with instrument, which I would recommend as well. But it's like when you're thinking about the world and your instrument and your practice routine and your life in this way, that can get you through. all different practice scenarios. It can certainly help you when you're on those kind of days when everything's falling into place.

You might not think you need it, but then that becomes like a gratitude kind of thing. Totally. Because you're like, wow, this is one of those days. And so you're not just, you don't take it for granted,

because that's really the opposite of the gratitude. It's like you understand that this is part of the journey. Now you're going to be better able to serve. Gratitude is the most amazing tool for this. Right. And it can be, it can sound corny if you're not familiar with it, but like,

actually practicing, having a gratitude practice with all of this, with your art, with your whatever, with your family, with your life will and can change your life for the better and kind of make everything a little bit more comfortable. It is not corny. It's actually an incredibly powerful tool. It's a cheat code. It is one and for life. Yeah. Because, and it's not just music you can do this with, but that's what we know, right? Yeah. And the, the cheekco part about it is like to live a musical life to frame your practice, your development, your interactions with music, your interactions with other musicians, your discussion around it, your trajectory, everything. You don't, the Chico part of it is you don't have to be a genius like Monon neon to live a

musical life. Like it will meet you where you are if you're willing to meet music where it is. And does he live a musical life because he's a genius? Or is he a genius maybe because he decided a long time ago to live a musical life? Right. I mean, it's, I don't think it's a chicken the egg. I think one is definitely leading the charge here. Well, and then it'll just guide you right into it.

Because like I'm saying, like when you're having those days when you're dialed in and everything, you're not going to be like, yeah, that's right. You're going to, that's going to make you humble if you're living a musical life because you're going to be like. And so then when you get to the tough days, you're not going to be as down. And I think what we're talking about today is like acknowledge the tough days. Don't get frustrated and leave the instrument. Acknowledge that you've already showed up.

So you've already, you're already a winner. And there's somebody. There's one thing you can do that will always be beneficial. Yeah. It will always work for you, no matter what instrument you play, no matter where you are in your musical journey. There is one thing that if you do this, you will get better every single time. And it happens to be something really. Yeah, actually.

Oh, it is. Okay. Oh, I was kidding. Yeah. No. So, you know, when people ask me, like, I'm struggling with what to practice, I always tell them, well, go back in your Spotify or your Apple Music. and what are the albums that you've been listening to on repeat this last two months? Right. Not what are you supposed to be listening to?

No, not what you... What have you assigned yourself? What is your heart go to when you want to listen to music? What makes your heart dance? Go identify what that is. Currently, currently. That's an important part of it. Currently.

Yeah. Like what lights you up right now? Yeah. And then when I ask the next question, I always get a no for an answer. And that question is, do you know any of the songs on this album? Yeah. Like, can you play them? Right.

And most people say, know, I don't really know any of the songs on the album. Well, there's, there is something to work on. Like if you are, and that's a, just to clarify, this is for a struggle day. For any day, really, but if you are struggling, this can open up new doors and it always, yeah, I mean, it never not works. Like, you are following your, as long as you're honest with yourself, I really love this music. I'm really curious about how it works. Yeah. Even if you go figure out just a small part of it, maybe it's just one little section that you love what's happening. Maybe it's the hits at the end of the first chorus.

Maybe it's a bit of language in the saxophone solo. Maybe it's a chord voicing that happens in the intro. Yeah, what is the part within that you're listening when you're like, oh, that is so cool. That is so dope. It could be one note. It could be one voicing. Like, why does that note that John Coltrane plays over that C minor chord sounds so amazing?

Right. Go figure out why that is. Go figure out what it is and why it's reaching you the way it is. I am a harmony nerd, Peter, so a lot of my work on this is figuring out chord progress which is what I'm going to do today. I thought we could give a little example of music that we actually don't know as of right now.

We still don't know it. But these are both things that we've chosen that we've been actively listening to the last few days, in fact. Exactly. Yeah. Actually, what I've been listening to, what I'm going to do here,

I've been listening to for years. And I've, I just realized like, what is that chord progression? And I'm going to figure it out right now. Nice. I love it. I love it.

And you know what's so cool about this, too? This is like, this activates, so many different other elements. You know, we talked about gratitude. We talked about connecting with the music. Obviously learning something that you're passionate about. Like it reignites things and energizes you away.

That's why it's such a good thing to do on a day you're struggling. Like if you use this technique on the days when you're struggling, it will automatically, it's like going to get an espresso or something. It's like it tastes good, but it also gets your mind going. Like it brings you. up exactly to where you need to go. And that's why if you think about this as kind of a default fallback, it can be very effective. Just like, you know, if you walk into a room and you're like, I'm always so interested

in talking to people, then you're like, oh, I don't have anything in common with people. What's the lowest common denominator? What's the default that you can go back? Well, we're all humans. You know what I mean? Like maybe you speak different languages. Maybe you're different from different parts of the world, whatever. But like, what is that thing?

And so this is that type of activity, I think, that if you make it as a default, it can be very effective. But let's stop talking about it. Let's do it. Let's rock paper, scissors, see you those first, right? Okay. Rock paper scissors, bam. Rock paper scissors, shoot. Rock paper scissors, shoot.

Come on now. Rock paper scissors, shoot. Get out of town. Paper scissors shoot. Oh, come on. Oh, I got it. Okay. Is it rock paper scissors boom, bam, bam.

Okay, anyway, we got it. Why would you add an extra beat? Rock paper scissors, boom, um. What's the boom? That, da, da, da, bam. I don't know. Who knows? We never played that before.

Okay, so I'm going to take this because I was just listening to this to the car because it's been showing up on my Spotify because we recently did a video called the Real Ten Greatest Jazz albums, blah, blah, blah, but this is trying times by Roberta Flack, which is literally the last thing I was listening to. This is my favorite thing on that whole list. Meister Ron Carter on the face. So that little thing there, that's what I want to focus on. That's such a good thing to focus on. It's such a simple sounding voicing, but so this is eight, right? So one thing is like when you're learning this kind of stuff, like just to find you can always just kind of peek around into there,

but you know that that's either D or A because do we hear the open string for Mr. You hear the way that's ringing? So we know that's either B and A and D or G because those are notes on the base. But that, yeah, so now we're already going into this first voicing from a Roberta Flack. What is it? Yeah.

Is that? I think it's something. something like that. So we have, this is like an A7 Suss chord. It's, is that A doubled? I think so. Maybe she's not even playing the low, it would be tripled with the low. Or was it just four notes?

That's fun. I love, yeah, definitely goes down to. Like you hear that kind of, sometimes, okay, this is a little thing for transcribing. For piano chords, you can hear the attack, that's your first opportunity, but you can also hear the ring. Yeah. So there's like, I don't hear that. Four notes. But then that doesn't sound like, like check out the ring.

Is that G there at the bottom? I don't know. Maybe not. Obviously it's just one notes. That's genius, right? Yeah. But you. Do it against on the top?

Yep. I think it's just that, right? That would be no G in it. Yeah, I'm trying here, buddy. I think there's a G. Well, then. there's no A then. It might not be.

Which would make sense. This would be like a little. With no doubling would be a stronger voice. Yeah, there's definitely. Yeah. So there, I mean, there it's like you've accomplished something. You know what I'm saying? Like we trained our ears.

We got this cool voicing. We got reinforcement. The doubling is not always being. That is amazing work, right? So now. Like if we were going to say, let's play an A blues with Ron Carter. We'd be like. But Roberta Flach's just like.

And then the patience. Oh. Ah, it's beautiful. So now what would you do with that? Just revel in it. Just bathe in the... No, you could take it around to different... Right.

Well, let's see where she goes next. Also, check out the timing. Right on the beat. You know, if you think about Ron Carter, you know... Like, he gets that nice, like, light syncopation, so Roberta can just be... So nice. Very simple.

Beautiful sounding piano. Yeah. Ringing. Oh. Oh, you can hear it. Oh, she does play the, she plays the low A there. I definitely heard that. She rolled it?

Yeah. So this, so it's an A-7 C-Cord and she's playing on that one at least. G-A-D-E-A. I think she's playing A-G-E-A? Hello, the feds are coming. Oh, boy. Wait, you think he's playing? Yeah.

Check it out. Listen to beginning. I heard that to start. That's a great one. voice. I think she's going to go somewhere. Yeah. So that, I believe, can you make it? Yep. This is over the four of course. One, two, three, four. There's G there on the bottom. Yep. No D? I think maybe C-E-A. Yeah, definitely C-E-A. But I think the D on it. Put a big D on the bottom, I don't think she does. Oh, really? You're right. So that's, that's a good thing. You stop it right away and you can hear it. Just G.

There's four nose And then So again this is a D-7 suss And the voicing is G-C-E-A Like a C-6 voicing Yep She'll resolve the G down The suss down to the third

In such a subtle Oh And then she's got to spell it out for us But then the way it's voicing it out Like it's like doom Yeah It's trailing off So chill

But it's so good So I mean like this is the kind of stuff we're talking about Like look how excited we are Like, could you imagine on a time? And you look, you may not get every one of those. I mean, I don't know. We could have done this, too. That's fun someday. You don't know what to practice.

But isn't this better? Like, you're learning about not just like the theory behind what Roberta Flack is playing over, you know, an A7 suss and a D7 suss. But how she's doing it. Right. And these little details that you're learning. And this could be it. This doesn't have to be like, I got to transcribe the whole thing. No.

Just get the parts that you're lit up by and then stop. Yeah. And they go out the street and get lit up. Or take it. in some varying ways. See if you can maybe, what is, like break it down. Okay, so this D-7 c-sus here. Like I said, it's like a C-6 shape, right?

Yeah. C-E-E-G-A in a little drop-to. Yeah. So I can kind of figure this out in different inversions even. It all works. All of those now. And now I've got a month of stuff to practice just from these eight bars. Yeah.

And for those of you that are like, oh, that's fine, but you guys are getting it quicker than I would be getting it. That's, that's, there's always, you know. True. No, I mean, there's, but some of the really parts that you can learn, like when I thought I was hearing the D at the bottom, which sounds good still. Yeah, but then you hear she's not. So then it's like, you're not like, oh, it took, okay, yeah, you got some ear training from that. But it's also like you have options now.

Like, how does that sound different? Like with the bass and without the bass. Like, how is that different? And then how is it different when, and she does that real light on top of it, you know, It's not always just about the notes, just the way that they're played. It's the nuance. And it's not always like, oh, now I've got this voicing. I can play if I ever play this tune.

No, you can use this in so many different situations. What does it feel like? What does it sound like? Great stuff. Absolutely. All those inversions, taking it through the keys and figuring it out. It's wonderful. It's wonderful.

And by the way, this is not groundbreaking. This is how music has been passed along for now since the invention of recorded music. But before that, through studying live music and sheet music, musicians figuring it out and go figure it out. There's nothing better for you than to go figure it out. Yeah, this is like the, you know, oh, I want to learn how to, you know, make this stream deck thing. Let's, let's, if you're an engineer, you're tinkering, you open it up.

Yeah, exactly. That's exactly right, Peter. Oh, wait, let me put that back in. No, you know how many people come up to me and are like, I don't know what you're talking about in your shorts or whatever? I like, I watch them all and I love them, but I don't know the words you're talking about. Why do you guys do that? And it's like, well, it's like an engineer who takes a part of clock and it's like,

How does this digital clock work and then figures out, you know, how the circuits work and everything like that. It's your job as a musician to take apart specifically the things that you love, not the things that Peter and I. Don't go, if you don't are not feeling the Roberta Flack, don't go do that. Right. That's what we started. We say go to just let Spotify, wherever you listen, like go to your LP, whatever you have. What do you have up there? Not what do you think we think you should have.

Totally. 100%. Yeah. Can I do mine? Yes. Caleb, can we put this on screen? We're going on screen. So this might be one of my favorite musicians. in the last 15 years, 10 years maybe.

This is, thank you. This is Gabriel Cahain, composer, pianist, singer, definitely more from the classical side of things. I believe his father is a fairly well-known conductor. But he is amazing. He's made some of my favorite albums the last five years. And this is from one of the albums. This is like a live video they made in an apartment.

I'm not sure whose apartment, but it's a orchestra in this Brooklyn apartment. and I love this recording more than I love the album version. I think this is a better performance than the album version. And it's an 11-minute piece, and there's actually a couple of different, maybe three different song structures within this piece. And the part in the middle is amazing.

It's a piece called Empire Liquor Mart, and it's a really... It's got the actual address of the Empire. That must be L.A. address. Yeah, it's actually a row. It's a pretty terrible story behind it. But there is a part in the middle that it just hits me so hard. And I was thinking about it this morning, actually,

as we were talking about what we would want to listen to. And I was like, I really want to figure out that song within the song. So I just want to figure out the chord progressions. It also has some of the best lyrics. This song within a song, the chorus is nobody reads from the book of Joe, but the church where me and my grandma go. And the way that he syncopates the lyric, This is that lyric itself.

Nobody reads from the book of Job at the church where me and my grandma go tells an entire little paints of portrait of these people that is so vivid and then the way that he phrases it is great. But the chord progression itself and then he's a master at orchestration

and any of it is fair game. Master straighter. Master orchestrator. I'm not a fan of that. I'm not a fan of that. But we could get any of that. We could get the lyrics, we could get the orchestration,

but I just want to get the chord progression because it's so compelling. Let's listen to the buildup to it and then we'll listen to the full little song and then we'll figure it out. By the way, do you recognize that bass player? No. Wait, where is it?

Up on the bunk then. Is that Adam Neely? It is Adam Neely on bass. Wow. I bet them. It has the microphone. Did they put a apartment in that little apartment? all this so bright when i was young i was too young to die

oh all this stuff is so good man so well done and to play it in an apartment in separate rooms yeah i got this transition my grandma she thought the town was no good to miss she took a greyhound just as far as it could take her felt to make her in the ways how god moves This part is the So this is the changes I want. That syncopation of the... Yeah. Nobody reads from the book of Job at the church where me and my grandma go.

So beautiful. So let's see, I think it's simple. Okay. So that's four. Four, yes. Six. This is the chord that I was most excited about. This sort of two.

It's all diatomy. Like minor 11, huh? That's my edition. So it'd be like, nobody reads from the book of Job at the church where me and my grandma go. Nobody sees the trouble I know. That's it.

It's a nice way. That's all I need. I'm going to figure it. So this is the part. I've never written a song that has like the five to the two. And that's super compelling. Do you give some thanks to the chord? changes cannot be copyrighted right now.

Can we give out a little shout? Shout out to all the attorneys in the house. Shout out to the legal precedent. That's a great five to two. Five to two. I'm stealing that. That's the part I'm taken away. I'm going to see if I can come up with, I mean, I can't come up with anything as compelling as that.

That's so beautiful. It's like a very like traveling song kind of movement. Totally. Very James Taylor. Let's take it back. She thought the town was no good to use. She took a grey house just as far as it could take her. You know what's how God moves through us.

It's good. I was six years old when we bought him. The light was magic, the light was true. You know what I liked before that, too, kids. So it's like, so A minor to, E minor, and then not seven like half diminished, but B minor. Yeah, straight. Yeah.

It's good. Oh, we will just upon me. Five, two, two, four, six. Very basic. Thank you, Gabriel Payne. Yeah, three. Again, nothing revolutionary about that, but I didn't know that. Yeah.

Man, it's such a great reminder that, like, the order and the cadence of chords. Oh, dude. Is everything. I mean, how many times do we do two, five, but you ever do five, two? I know. Yeah, the order of that. And then the pace, like the cadence and the pacing of it, you can take, like you said, there was nothing. There was some interesting stuff, you know, before that.

Yeah, the, the, the, all of that. Yeah, and I love the, like, from the one to the two dominant and into the two minor. We'll put a link to both this, Gabriel Cahein's YouTube video of Empire Liquor Mart as well as to the, what was the title? Tri-Times. Tri-Times. Tri-Times. Roberta Flack. Yeah, we'll go to.

We'll link to the 10 greatest jazz. That's actually, spoiler alert, that's number one. Hey. Hello. Hello. Well, this is super fun. So if you're struggling with what to practice, look at your record collection. What have you been listening to the most the last month or two months and go figure it out.

Yeah, absolutely. Love it. Until next time. You'll hear it.