You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - The Evolution of an Artist

Episode Date: January 7, 2021

Season 8 kicks off with Peter and Adam analyzing the start, middle, and end of the careers of three jazz trumpet legends: Louis Armstrong, Miles Davis, and Roy Hargrove.Interested in more music advice? Go here to browse our catalog of jazz lessons and courses available for purchase. And be sure to check out our All Access Pass - every course from Open Studio on every instrument.Links From This EpisodeLearn from some modern day jazz trumpet greats - check out all the trumpet courses Open Studio has to offer HEREListen to every tune from this episode by these amazing trumpeters with our Spotify playlistLet us know what you think by leaving a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review, or head over to our YouTube channel.Follow us on Facebook | Twitter | Instagram See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Hey Peter. Hey. What do King Oliver, Charlie Parker, and Bobby Watson have in common? Ooh, saxophone trumpets. Kansas City, Kansas City, New Orleans. I don't know. That's it. That's all you got.

Well, I mean, yeah, it's a quick intro. Well, you're about to find out. Good. I'm Adam Manus. And I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to the You'll Hear at Podcast. Music advice coming at you in 2021. Oh my gosh.

I can't believe it's 2021. already. Can you believe it? Yes, I just said it. So I believe it. But aren't you so thrilled that it's finally 2021 and that miserable bastard of a year is over? I mean, I am, to be honest, I'm a little bit in the minority on this one. I know it's been very fashionable and all the fashionistas are saying, oh, putting 2020. The problem I have with that, I want to put 2020 behind all of us as much as anyone. The problem is, is we're in the same situation. I know. Nothing is really changed. So I don't want to make it like, oh, we put it, and then all of a sudden we realize nothing has changed. And then we're like, oh, 2021 is June because I'm an optimist.

I really believe this year is going to be far superior on the public health front around the world, hopefully. Agreed. But it's not like we just turn the page on everything and go out and party and lick everybody. I don't think we're time for that yet. Also, you and I, because I'm kind of with you, too. Like for me, especially relatively to how bad it could have been, 2020 was not bad. You know what I mean?

Like, we, we have. We both realize that we don't have. hate our spouses, even though we had to be with them on. That was the big game change. Oh my gosh, to realize you actually love your family, that's an incredible gift. It is. But no, you know, we're so lucky as musicians, yes, all the gigs dried up. But we have this opportunity with Open Studio to still be creative and to make things.

And, you know, we are luckily healthy during this time. So that's a real gift. Yeah. For show. For show. Yes. It could have been much, much worse. So shout out to everybody, though, for the new year.

And we, you know, it's a new year, Peter. I don't like the new year, new you either. I'm going against the grain for that, specifically for that. But that new year, new you, to me, that just, I don't know, it seems like I'm, you know, you're fine. You don't need to lose any weight. You don't need to learn how to do magic. Yeah, because you're skinny.

Well, no, yeah. No, but you know what I'm saying? It's like, come on, man. I want to, I want to use this year to like, accept my flaws. How about that? How come no one talks about that? Where's the diet culture on that? You know what I'm saying?

My biggest false is I can't find any flaws to accept about myself. No, but you know, it is a new year and we thought that we would, I don't know if you know this, but this is the third year of the You'll Hear It podcast. It doesn't seem like a lot years-wise, but this is like we're in the 700s for episodes. No, it's insane. That's a lot of damn episodes of a jazz podcast. I mean, and it's like I could easily name all 700 of those episodes. Starting with number one, go.

No, I can name any of them. I know. So we thought that we would kind of switch it up here in the way that we're doing this. We're going to change a little bit of the form of the podcast. We're going to keep the tone and the style. The witty banter. The same. But we're going to maybe do a little less frequency, maybe one a week, maybe two a week, if we see how it goes.

But make them a little longer and a little more in depth and have a little more sort of little more to them, a little more meat on the bone. Because they'll. Come on now. We've had some meaty bone. No, no, we've... But we did always feel, like, when we're on the daily thing. We're trying to keep it to 10 to 12 minutes, 15 minutes. Yeah, it's weird how that's always kind of on your mind, even if we want to honor each subject.

I think we've done a good job of this over these last few years of giving each subject and topic the time that it needs. But we don't want to take up everybody's day when we don't want people to feel like, oh, I'm falling behind or whatever. So we tried to get the pacing right. But it's been feeling like we could delve into certain topics a little bit. deeper in a way. And our hope is for the dear listener as our North Korean brothers and sisters like to, sorry. Oh, my God. That doesn't change. No, but, you know, the idea is that for the listener, this might be, dare I say, something that could be consumed over several days over a commute or your breakfast bagel or whatever it is. Yeah. And it's just really, too, it's a way for us to kind of

switch it up, to stay creative, to refresh for ourselves, for us to really explore some things we're interested in, which brings me. Wait, hold on a second. So basically you're saying, new year, new you. No, I didn't. I would never say that. I would never say that. Hey, by the way, we are also. New Year, new podcast. I would never, I would never say that. All right, but that does bring me to the topic of this episode. So I'm calling this episode the evolution of an artist. And this might be a series because today we're doing the evolution of an artist and we're doing all trumpet players. And the idea on this, I know you know this, but I've been thinking a lot about storytelling. In my music, in what we do, do with our teaching at Open Studio and in just how we do everything with Open Studio, including this podcast. And, you know, a story has a beginning, a middle, and an end. And I've been listening to some iconic trumpet players in my own personal listening recently. And I thought it might be fun to go through these iconic trumpet players and listen to the first thing they ever recorded,

listen to something in the middle of their career or maybe their artistic or commercial peak. Okay. And then listen to the very last thing they recorded. Doesn't that sound like fun? That sounds great. And so I picked three slouches, Lewis Armstrong, Miles Davis, and Roy Hargrove. Wow. And I thought that we could. No, I thought we could listen to literally the first thing that any of these guys ever put on recording, at least for something that's still available, like a major release.

Ooh, I just made a connection between the intro. Now I got it now. I don't want to give it away. I don't want to spoil a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. And then I picked, I picked what I thought was. Oh, man.

So we'll go through it, but then again, something from the middle period, really something from what might be considered their artistic or commercial peak. We can talk more about that. We can get there. And then again, something from the very last record they made. So with that said, we're going to start with Lewis Armstrong. And we are going to start with the very first thing that Lewis Armstrong recorded. I thought we could listen to maybe some or all of these tracks. We don't have to listen to the full thing, but just to get a flavor of their playing when they were very young and very new to the game.

So this is from 1923. This is King Oliver's Creel jazz band. Louis Armstrong was 22 years old on his very first recording, which actually is probably a little bit older than I thought he might be. Right. But this was, but, you know, recording wasn't as available back in the day. So this is him in King Oliver's Creel jazz band. This is Chimes Blues. 1923.

So, yeah, I know he's got varying dates of birth. Exactly. That's why I was trying to remember. Which one are we going on? So he was either 21 or 22. when he recorded that. But you can already hear he's there. He's there. He's got it there.

As we'll kind of hear with him, Miles, and Roy Hargrove that out of the gate, they had something that was very particular, like a very distinct sound. You could listen to that and realize that's Lewis Armstrong right away. Absolutely. And I mean, I think that you have the stylization

of not only Lewis Armstrong sound that was pervasive in his playing. You can already hear it for the rest. and then we're projecting forward all the way to the 70s, you know, and to his whole career. But also that kind of initial spark and stylization of the joy and feeling and freedom of improvisation with. And, you know, we always think about it as a rhythmic thing. There's obviously the rhythmic element there, but the phrasing, that free phrasing, which just informed everything. John Coltrane, Cecil Taylor.

I know that sounds like a stretch. No, that's true. there, you know, it's that spirit of the music that it's always an over simplification to say that, you know, he's the father of jazz or the creator, whatever, but that's, that spirit is so pervasive and infused forever that it's, uh, it's, it's incredible that it was already there. Yeah. And you know, it's like a sparkle in his eye. There's a twinkle, right? There's a couple of things that are, I think, that strike me. First of all, the, the entire feel of that whole band is so groven. It's crazy.

But his eighth note in particular. Yeah. And I think when... It's a little freer than everybody else, right? It's a little bit straighter. It's a little bit freer. Like, it feels a little bit more modern in that you and I would play an eighth note like that. Right. And no one else in that band would play that kind of eighth note. If we have any faults that

we play our eighth notes too much like Lewis Armstrongs. We have one fault. But you know what I'm saying? And then also that gliss up where he does that very human... I mean, he's he is a vocalist, you know, with that horn. I mean, it really sounds like he's just singing with the trumpet. And it's just a great introduction. I think anybody would be happy if that was their first recording. That's right.

Yeah. It'd be a little bit of a challenge. Where do you go from here? Where do you go from here? Well, we're not going to go too far. So, you know, I threw around how to, to this middle section, right? Our second piece from each one of our great trumpet players, where do we go peak as in what I consider the artistic peak do we go to like actual what is their best selling work i kind of went with

somewhere of a mixture of that what's kind of their most cultural impactful thing that they recorded so with louis armstrong i was like well do i do what a wonderful world yeah i've done many a wedding gig what that's got called play the louis armstrong song yeah yeah but i think and i think you'll probably agree that west in blues that this hot fives and hot sevens era was his artistic not i don't want to say peak because it makes it sound like he didn't do what you think it no but it was i think what defines him for most musicians. I think it's one of the high points of his career. And West End Blues is certainly a highlight in the history of jazz, not just in his career. And so for me, this was a little bit more what he's going to be remembered by.

So this is West End Blues. This is Louis Armstrong and his hot fives. beautiful beautiful and his hot fives play Westin blues that's obviously such an iconic tune in our music that we love so much

And it's just, it's a masterpiece from start to finish. It is. And there's so many, there's so many different moments. And I'm sure they just laid it down at the time and moved on. But it's so impactful. I always think back to the, you know, I can't remember the exact quote from Billy Holliday, but she was very influenced by this recording. And like, I mean, in terms of like improvising and scat, which she wasn't necessarily super known for,

but like this was a record. We always think about like. It's got her vibe, though, for sure. It does. Yeah. And we always think. think about this stuff is like later on it was really understood the impact of it but this had a huge impact and you know king oliver actually went back and re-recorded this is his song oh wow he went back

and re-recorded this he was like you're not taking mind to make it yeah well it was such a hit too it was just such a vibe but i think the moments like there's just some things in terms of improvisation on the introduction you know the clarion call is went marcellus calls and all this is is amazing but like his effortless it's very modern the way he slides between like in time and out of time and the whole thing is so like authentic blues influence as well. There's so many different layers and just joy in this. And then Earl Hines like is... Oh man, love that feel.

Yeah, I mean, it's just like you see the link between that and Oscar Peterson and everything else. So that was 1928. He was 27 years old when he made that. So his first recording... Chicago, Illinois, recording Chicago. Oh, that's awesome. So he was 22.

This was only five years after he made his debut on record. Yeah. Which is a little early, even amongst our other two trumpet players here. So he died in 1970, 71 maybe, and he, I'm trying to remember that, but he was 69 years old when he made his very last record. And he did, this is how, I mean, this is how much of a breadth of a career he had, you know, recording Chimes, Blues with King Oliver and then finishes out with a John Lennon song, give a piece a chance. And it's killing. I never heard this before. I never heard that. In 71, he died in 71.

He died in 71. Thank you. So, yeah, this is from, let me see here, his recording, Louis Armstrong and his friends. It's from 1970. Wow. Yeah. And so this is Give Peace a Chance. It's killing.

I love it, man. I mean, to live a life like that, right? Where you're recording in New Orleans with the King Creel jazz band. And then to come and end with this, you know, gospel version of Give Peace a Chance. This is so cool. With a slick 70s vibe. That's his last recording. That was his very last recording the year before he died.

He died in 1971. And this was recorded in 1970. And I mean, just what an icon of the 20th century to live that entire recorded existence. So our next trumpet player is another icon of the 20th century, Miles Davis. Ever heard of him? Ever heard of that guy. Miles made his recording on this Charlie Parker dial sessions, his debut. Well, so his debut was actually as a side man with this like really unknown saxophone player.

And I didn't feel like that captured what it was the same year. Okay. His name was like, his name was like Glenn something. I'm going to space on that. No, no, no. It's all good. But I like, I like where are you going with this. This was the same year.

And I was like, just that didn't, the very first recording, it didn't quite capture what I think he was on to, which is. this, this is Moose the Mooch from the Charlie Parker all those dial sessions. Check it out. Come on now. That's a 20-year-old Miles Davis playing with Charlie Parker. And it's, again, just like with Lewis Armstrong's first recording there, it's kind of all there. Like, I mean, for sure the trumpet playing is there.

Absolutely. But the artistry is there, too. There's some subtle little things going on there that are very miles. That's not just a dizzy clone. That is his own person. No, and this was, of course, you know, something played and written, you know, with Dizzy and mine for sure. You know, I think that Miles, what, and I'm jumping ahead a little bit probably, but what we're going to see with all these great trumpet artists is that their personality, their persona, there's all this stylistic things and the influences on the others,

and trumpet's always been a very influential instrument. But their personality, the technique in order for your personality to come out on your instrument. That was already well formed at this time. So this must have been... 1946. Okay, so Miles is like... 20 years old. 20, okay, right. Yeah. Yeah, 20 years old. He was recently, you know, I'd moved to New York the year before. We was at Juilliard. Yeah. And dropped out to play in Charlie Parker's band, as you do. Yeah, and he was out on the West Coast, I think, when they record. This was part of that, like, Dizzy had left, and they were playing out there and brought Miles with him. So Miles's middle period,

middle period, this was a tough one. My first choice was actually ESP, because I think for me, that is... The ESP, Nefertiti era, that quintet is my favorite... Some of my favorite music of all time. And you consider that mid. Yeah, I guess that's mid. That's mid.

He was like 39 years old. But I chose something that I think is his most iconic work. Okay. It was something that... It's so hard for us to listen to K.O.B., kind of blue. Yeah. Now, without putting it in the context that not a lot sounded like it at the time.

I mean, you could say it's like West Coast or whatever, but it's really not. Modal Jazz. Yeah, I mean, it really was a game-changing event. So that's what I chose for Miles' iconic section here. His most well-known work, it's got to be this. It's got to be so what. Just 13 years after making his recording debut there,

he was the most famous jazz musician in the world. Yeah. And they kind of blew. And, man, that is such, I mean, I know we've heard it We talk about it all the time, but... Because it's good. Damn, that's good. Paul Chambers, man.

Yeah. Damn. Yeah. Okay, so that's, so what? We all know. 32 years old, by the way. I was just checking that. So it was...

1950. He was 32 when he made that. So he was 20 when he made his debut. He was 32. 12 years after that. Yeah, yeah. It's a progression right there. So, yeah, Miles then...

He was a kid. He was just... Am I getting older? It's 32? That's a kid's a kid's age, right? He's a little young Miles. Davis running around. No, he's, I mean, it's interesting to look at the arc of great artists and their work, be that dancers, composers, you know, painters. It really doesn't matter. But to think about, there's a lot of different approaches to that. And there's a lot of different, you know, when you look at the historical record of somebody's output, you know, there's different ways of saying like, wow, their most productive period, was during this time. Their masterpiece came in their 40s. And I don't necessarily know that there's

a pattern to it outside of. I'm always surprised when I see what can be accomplished. The gravity of a record like this can be created by somebody at that relatively young age, considering what we have the perspective of all the things that he played before that and after that for many years. Yeah. And as we go here into the track from the very last record, he made. which was Dubop he was 65 I can't think of an artist that changed more

in his lifetime in relatively short amounts of time than Miles and as we go from Moose the mooch with Charlie Parker straight up the most classic B-Bop record you can have

classic to So What which is defined an era and is still the most famous jazz album ever to where he landed which was still incredibly innovative.

I was given a full-on listen to Dubot, man. And it's, first of all, it's really good. Yeah. Like, he didn't, it was not, this is not like an old man album. Is it cool Moody on this record? Everybody's on this record.

Everybody wanted to work with Miles. And so this is chocolate chip from Dubop. Check this out. This is the same man. He was 65 years old. Recorded in 1991, released after his death in 1992. He died in 91,

and this was released the year after. If that's not a beginning to a Spikely movie, I don't know what it is. That's such a great vibe, man. Man, it's awesome. That's bringing me back to some really nostalgic early 90s vibes. That whole sound is incredible. Check out, Dubop. If you haven't checked it out or anything from Miles' this later period,

I think you might be surprised by how much, if you can be open-minded about it and not expect Kind of Blue, you're going to be surprised at how groovy it is and how good of trumpet playing was going on. Absolutely. I remember seeing Miles live. Well, actually the last time I saw live was right around this. Well, it was 1990, actually.

I crazily got a chance to play in a group that opened for miles in Atlanta, Georgia, at the big amphitheater thing there with Marlon Jordan, and got a chance to meet him. That was 90 or 91 maybe. But I saw him live concert with my dad up in New York in like 86 or 87. Yeah. We were up there just. just real quick story.

I was like really in the jazz and it was the summer and my mom was out of town. She was actually out of the country. And my dad was like had some like unexpected vacation time from work and he's like, what do you want to do? There's nothing going on. He's like, well, let's go to New York.

You want to see who's put it. Let's look at the New York Times. See who's up in New York. I was like, cool, let's do it. And like we literally left that day. Oh my gosh. We drove to New York. That's amazing.

Yeah. That's good dadding right there. That was good dad. That was bored dadding. Yeah. And like we stayed with his friend from college in the Bronx and stuff. But we went and saw, so I was just like looking up all this different stuff, but Miles was playing out of Jones Beach at the big outdoor amphitheater things.

We went out and saw him. My first contact high from a police officer sitting in front of us, smoking weed. It was very exciting. Don't feel bad. Nobody's ever been to the Jones Beach Amphitheater and not caught a contact beach. That's right. That's right. But, yeah, he was very much the sound at that time, and I was into all his older recordings,

but I was like, wow, that's Miles. And he's playing. I mean, he was playing his butt off. It's playing, man. He's been great. I love it, man. And so, you know, that is, to me, we could do a whole hour on Miles's career and the changes that happened. But to go from Moose to Moosh to start, again, it's just, it's kind of like Lewis Armstrong here with starting with the Chimes of Blues, ending with something like give a piece of chance for Miles, starting with moose to moose, ending with that chocolate chip from Dubop is really awesome.

So 65 years old and still making like funkier, hipper music than I've ever made. That's right. Well, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to be like, that's right. That's true. Longevity. Long jubes. So our third trumpeter is somewhat, he was born between so what and chocolate chip. He was born in 1969 and the great Roy Hargrove, who we lost a couple of years ago.

And I'm really, I'm actually sad as I was putting this together that we don't really have a later Roy Hargrove period. I mean, his later period was his peak years. Yeah. But I thought I would love to just kind of listen to his very first. recording and then what I consider to be what he's known most for. That was actually a tough one. I chose what you think I'm going to chose. And then we can close out with something from his last record. Okay. So his very first recording, do you know it? I don't know it. I remember hearing it and I remember when he played, this is with Bobby Watson. Bobby Watson. Yeah. I remember seeing him play

with Bobby Watson and like he got the gig and that was like a big thing. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, wow, you know. Bobby Watson, saxophone is out of Kansas City, Missouri. This is his band Bobby Watson and Horizon. Oh, it's a good, good group. This is no question about it. If you haven't heard this, just here we go. Now you have.

That's an 18-year-old, Roy Hargo. 18 years old, 1988 was when that record was made. 1988. If I were 18 and had to play those changes that fast, I would be in front of some great musicians. I would be so terrified, but he just comes out and crushes it. and that was his debut. That was the first recording that he was on,

at least from a major artist, that was on Blue Note that record, Bobby Watson, The Horizon. Yeah, yeah. So several years later, actually, more like 20 years later, were here in his, I mean, this was really tough.

There was so much to choose from that you could choose from as his peak. Yeah. But I think what he's going to be remembered for is St.rylz-Denie, like the first thing that most, that most people will think of because it's become a standard

and because that video is so compelling and his recording on Ear Food is so compelling. And that record Ear Food has been so influential with a lot of musicians. It's a great record. And there was things before this that we could have chose, but this is what I kind of landed on as the big obvious one. He was 38 years old when he made this album,

which is pretty awesome. So this is Roy Hargrove-Straussberg-Sandini. This is from 2008. And the whole thing is just so great, man. Joe Clayton's solo is iconic. But just that whole composition, you hear that now at jam sessions, which is amazing for something that was recorded that long ago. Roy, 38 years old when he made that album, 2006.

That's my bad, excuse me. So the very last thing, the very last record, he made under his own name. He did. I think it's 2008. Is it 2008? Yeah, I think it's 2008. Sorry, 2008, my bad. So the very last thing he did was his big band album.

That's the last thing he did under his own name. He recorded a bunch in the final decade of his life, but he had 10 years where he didn't record under his name before he died, which is a bit of a shame, you know. But also, I feel like we definitely got him at his best with this big band record. The writing and arranging from him and others on it as well is really, really amazing. I think my favorite part is the final tune. And it's actually a tune that he recorded on his Nothing Serious album.

It's Trust. And I think this is, I'm almost sure this is Roy's owner. Roy's own arrangement of it. But this was just the very next year after Earford. This was 2009. He was 40. And this was the last thing he made under his own name. Do you remember this album?

Oh, yeah. Yeah, this was a great record. So this is the final cut on this. Listen how beautiful this is. This is Trust from the Roy Hargrove Big Band album. It's trust from emergence, the Roy Hargrove Big Band. The composition and the arranging is, dare I say, Bobby Watson-esque peer. Yes.

Definitely like you can hear where he's coming from. This is what was so fun about listening to these sort of the wide gap here in icons like this, their recording careers. You can kind of hear where they're going. And you kind of picture it all is one big river. You could see the mouth. You can see, you know, where it ends up in the ocean. It's just, it's amazing.

Yeah. And I remember playing some Bobby Watson tunes with Roy back in 94, 95, but also Pamela Watson. who was an amazing composer. She wrote once forgotten. We used to do that and some other tunes I'm blanking on now, but big influence on him as well. Yeah, such solid writing on that too. Love the arranging.

Love the shout chorus. Swinging too, swinging too. Well, this was super fun, man. I love this new format. I love going deep. I love kind of getting into the weeds here. It's really nerdy. That's right.

That's right. Now, this is awesome. It's so, you know, to, I mean, we're just scratching the surface, But I think to peer at the arc of the career of three great trumpeters that are so disconnected but so connected at the same time is such a cool thing. I mean, the music that unites so much. And to finish with Roy is, yeah, it's a great thing. Yeah, man.

Well, if you like what you heard here, go to your podcast app and leave us a rating and review. I know you like rating and reviews. Let us know what you think of the new format. We're really excited about this. We are excited. Yeah. And you can also go to open studio jazz.com. If you want to support the podcast and get one of our courses,

maybe get into some more nuts and bolts of what's going on in some of this music. We do have lots of jazz improvisation courses. So go check that out, openstudiojazz.com. That's right. We have not. I was just checking. We did get a couple. See, this is going back a couple weeks.

Are you talking about some rating and reviews? Yeah, some five stars. We accept five stars, but we prefer six or seven. I mean, seven stars. I know. Seven stars. I know. This is New Year.

We are having a problem still an ongoing complaint that we have in with the Apple podcast system that is not allowing certain users to go beyond five stars. So I don't know. You got any suggestions for them? Fire Tim Cook. I mean, come on. We need USB. Big shout out to Tim.

We got to have USB 1 on our laptops, Tim. That's ridiculous, man. I shouldn't have a dongle to plug in everything. Bring back a classic. Oh, my God. As he, as on a laptop, he's able to simultaneously mix, produce, compote. Hey, what happened to the song? I was enjoying that, man.

Where'd it go? It's coming. It's coming. It's coming. He's still learning. He's still learning. Until next week, you'll hear it.