You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - The “Love Supreme” of Soul Music?

Episode Date: May 26, 2025

Learn what makes Marvin Gaye’s protest album a timeless masterpiece. Adam and Peter go deeper than deep—layer by layer—using stems to find out. Listen to the full arrangement in a way you’ve probably never experienced, even if you’ve heard it a thousand times. Strings, bass, background vocals, Marvin’s multi-tracked leads, percussion, vibes—it’s all here, isolated and exposed.We also dig into the story behind the album, and how a protest record became a timeless masterpiece.A must-listen for anyone who cares about music—and how it’s made.ABOUT OPEN STUDIO------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------As the premier online jazz education platform, with an ever-expanding course library and 20,000+ members, Open Studio (OS) has everything you need to excel and thrive on your jazz journey.Featuring everything from beginner to advanced lessons, engaging courses from A-list instructors, step-by-step curriculum, real-time classes and a thriving and incredibly supportive community, OS is the perfect platform to level up your jazz playing, whether you’re a total beginner, or an advanced pro-level improvisor.

What's up, Adam? What's up, Peter? You know what we're doing today? Uh, no. The greatest album of all time. Oh, uh, songs in the Key of Life? That's good. That's in fact great, but no. Um, thriller?

That's good, too, but no. Kind of blue? Kind of new. Well, give me a hint. I got you. Uh, that's a great call. And I'm Peter Martin, and you're listening to the You'll Hear Podcast. Music Explored.

Explored today brought to you by Open Studio. Go to Open StudioJadiojazz.com for album. Jazz Lesson Needs, Peter. Yes. Big day. Big day. We said that before. And we were right.

We've been blessed with some amazing music we've been listening to. This is a fun job. I've got to say, of all the jobs I've ever had. This is awesome. Sitting around here for an hour listening to an album with you is about as good as it can get. Yeah. But I mean, we've said, I think we've come through on the big days in terms of just the level of artistry and the impact of some of the album.

We're talking about Talking Book, you know, kind of blue, these different albums we've explored. But are we going out a limb by saying, asking the question, is this the greatest album of all time, comma, period, question mark? Well, according to Rolling Stone Magazine, we're not going out on a limb at all. Because they put it as the number one album of their kind of BS top five. I know. That's what makes me nervous about it. I would have been okay with it.

But once I found that out, which it was right before the pod started. It's so dumb to rank albums like that anyway or say one is the best of all time or whatever. So let's do it. No, but this is obviously one of the great works of art of the 20th century. It's so great. I don't think there's any debate about that. It mixes an incredible commercial sound with an amazing message.

It's a real master of popular music of the last half of the 20th century at his peak. We're talking about, of course, Marvin Gays. What's going on? Ever heard of it? There it is. It is masterpiece, one of the great records ever. And yeah, I'm excited to talk about this. I've been with this music, seemingly my whole life.

It's been around me. I've known it. Yeah, me too. And I've been very lucky, actually, to do some shows with our good friend, Brian Owens, where I had to do things like really figure out what was going on in the strings, what was going on in the rhythm section. And that was really good early work for me as an arranger, because I think this is one of the most pleasantly arranged albums.

of the 1970s. Pleasantly, brilliantly. I mean, that's going to be a big part of what we talk about. This is a very jazz-influenced record, I think. We were just having a little bit of debate before we started, actually, because I was saying, is this possibly even, even, like, the best-selling jazz record of all time? And I said no.

Well, I mean, there's so much jazz, like, without jazz and sort of the lineage and the development of the music and the musicians that are on this, including Marvin Gay, you don't have this record, you know? And so, yes, it's not strictly a jazz. But, I mean, it is like, there's so much jazz just dripping all over it. Is that how you hear jazz in your head? That's how some people do. I think this is a great example of where, you know, first of all, you know I love a genre.

I love to be really dogmatic about what is jazz, then this is jazz. Let's say that much, okay? No, but this is why I love the term black American music to describe the lineage of this music. You can hear where this has the same roots as a lot of the jazz we love and even some of the same people. But I think this is, you know, if you were going to put it into some kind of genre, it would be in the soul genre, of course. Soul or Jazz, Soul or Soul Jazz. Just Soul. Okay, there you go.

Well, this is good. Okay, well, so in order to place this, first of all, this is exciting because this record, the music on this was recorded and born right around the time yours truly was born within a couple of months in 1970. Great year for music. a tumultuous year in the world in the United States, a lot going on. Luckily, everything's been smooth sailing since. Well, and then I was bored and everything got worse. But I just thought we could use, you know,

Marvin Gaye was such a thoughtful person and the way that he talked about his music and his career. He was a very sensitive artist, obviously. You could hear that in his voice, but there was authenticity, you know, knowing some people that knew him and musicians that worked with him and stuff

and hearing all the stories over the years. You know, a tragic figure, of course, well, but just such an amazing artist. So I thought I could share a couple of the words that he had about this album, the kind of frame where we're going to go with this. Marvin said, in 1969 or 1970, I began to reevaluate my whole concept of what I wanted my music to say. I was very much affected by letters.

My brother was sending me from Vietnam, as well as the social situation here at home. I realized that I had to put my own fantasies behind me if I wanted to write songs that would reach the souls of people. I wanted them to take a look at what was happening in the world. And I think, you know, we aspire to this as artists oftentimes were afraid to, or sometimes we get trapped in the just shut up and dribble, just shut up and played a piano kind of thing. But I think Marvin, you know, with all the commercial success he had before this,

but also all the kind of professional tragedy, I mean, you know, Tammy Terrell had just died, I believe right around this time. He had this amazing duo kind of segment to his country. career where he crossed over. We've talked about it before. Yeah. How the duos really dominated that time period. And it doesn't get any better than that.

Oh, my gosh. I mean, they kind of almost defined it in a way. And then, of course, his amazing solo career on Motown and stuff. But he had been really wanting to, well, let's hear him talk a little bit. I have an interview. This is now after the fact talking about this period. The world and, well, the state of the union was, and while the Vietnamese War was raised, hot and heavy during that period that we conceived it,

and there was a lot of unrest in America. I were college kids being shot in campuses, and my brother was at war, and I prayed a lot that he would come through safely. And it was a very, a very trying period for me at Motown, even that time I was struggling for some sort of independence and some sort of recognition as a producer, and trying to let the artist in me come to forefront

and not be produced. I love it. It's a theme of Motown and some other labels that were... Like, here's what's great about, I think what's great about Motown is because they were so detail-oriented and kind of very restrictive about what they would let their artists do and very controlling about their artists. And they had some of the greatest artists in music.

Yeah. It's only inevitable. that these artists are going to break away. Yeah. I'm talking about Stevie Wonder. Ever heard of Steve Lynn Morris? Michael Jackson. Yeah.

Talking about Diana Ross. Yeah. Talking about Marvin Gay. They break away and do something absolutely amazing. They don't even break away. They just yearn to kind of break free from people telling them what they can and can't do. And luckily, Motown also trained them up to be these incredible. I mean, they were already great artists, but, like, you know, gave them this incredible toolkit

to be able to make these albums even better. And so you put these geniuses into this incredible training program, essentially. And like you get what's going on. You get a talking book. Yes. Yeah, yeah. And I mean to Barry Gordy and Motown on the business side to their credit, they were, even as these artists broke away, they were able to still keep a lot of that on Motown.

They realized that even if they couldn't have control, they wanted that music there. And of course, this record is on Motown. which is the original imprint of Motown. And I think it's very interesting because this was right around the time when Stevie Wonder was working on... Yeah. Talking book.

And then, you know, the classic period when he was just turning... He was 10 years younger. Stevie Wonder's 10 years younger than Marvin. But he was out of contract. So he could kind of do whatever he wanted. Marvin was under contract. So it's a very interesting story

about how this came about because he kind of floated the idea. I mean, he was... I mean, he was truly in the Motown camp. He was actually before this was married to very Gordy's sister. He was in the Motown family. He was in the family. But he was having these, as he talked about, these ideas about, you know, recording more socially active and aware content during this period.

He really wanted to for his personal reasons. And he had very specific ideas about sound and production. And coming up in the Motown, I mean, one thing about Motown was like, they had a quality control department. Unbelievable. Which is a crazy thing to think about. about where they approved everything from the sound to the mix, to the production, to the lyrics and everything. That's why it's so good, man.

It's why it's so good. But when he had this idea and talked to Barry Gordy and the Motown folks about it, Barry Gordy was very much against it. He said because he was really on the cusp and already was crossing over to the broader, wider audience and the international. I mean, he was already doing that, but he really felt like he could go even further with that. Barry Gordy felt like he could go any further.

Yes, exactly. And he probably felt that speaking out about some of these issues. Exactly, was going to hamper that. Now, I don't know fully, I mean, I just, you know, we've heard about this stuff. I know Barry Gordy has disputed some of this. We don't want to, we're not historians here. Allegedly. Allegedly.

You know, I'm sure it was something in the middle. But I mean, you know, from a business standpoint, it's very much seen as like. I could see that. Yeah. Yeah. And so Marvin went in on June 1st, 1970, went to Hitzville, the Motown famous studios in Detroit, of course. He was still living in Detroit, this before he moved to L.A. He's 31 years old.

and he had this song the genus of this song is a whole other episode and sort of story some other musicians that Marvin knew kind of pitched him this song

and they all kind of worked it out together when Marvin kind of adapted it for this album but he went in to record this and had this idea they didn't go and record the whole album they just recorded this single you might have heard of it let's go ahead and listen to a little bit

1970 Oh Brother brother there's far too many of you died Those two lead vocals mixed together. Oh. To bring some

a pre-course. Pick it lines and pick it side. Don't punish me. Oh my God. The range miss on this, impeccable. The placement. Oh.

What's going on? Great moments of music history right now. Oh, man. Right off. I mean, the details on this. I mean, so this scatting that he was doing in there? Right here. Yeah, so I mean, this is, you know, does it get any more iconic than this?

In terms of like a record, the beginning of a record, you know, and like the title track song, I mean, what a perfect, like, you're setting the bar high. How are we going to come through on the greatest album of all time after this track? I mean, it's just stunning. It's just stunning. And can I nerd out a little bit? Yes. Maybe we can talk about this in the nerd nook for our open studio members in more depth. But what happens there in that interlude after the chorus is a musical term called modal interchange.

Right? And so it's key of E, I believe. E major, yeah. Yeah, key of E major. And so you have the, what's going on? What's going on? What's going on? What's going on?

And then the big A minor nine court, right? Yeah, almost like A minor 11 maybe goes up there. It's at least an A minor, nine, because that's what the melody, I think, sits on in the string line. But that chord is borrowed from the key of E minor. So you have E major, and you have this little interlude that goes to E minor, right? So you're in this sort of like, there are all these major seven chords in there, and minor seven chords, like all seventh chords. And then it's all in this sort of E major reason. It's obviously he's speaking about something that's very heavy, but it hits you harder just when he goes,

And it's some foreshadowing to how the rest of the record is going to be, too. That A minor nine chord hits me in the heart more than any lyric you could possibly say. That tells you the story of the song more than anything. It's like this bit of darkness that can happen, this incredible mood that takes over in that chord and the string line and the orchestration. Absolutely perfect, absolutely beautiful. The whole arrangement, stunning, incredible move there. Yeah, it's just perfection.

And then even coming off of that four, that A minor, then they go to the five sus, which kind of brings it back a little bit. It's like an A major seven over a B, that's a Suss chord there that just takes us back into this light of E major for a little bit. And I think that's the theme of this whole record in terms of the lyric,

the harmony, like the crafting of this, is between this, it never really goes super dark. I wouldn't say, even though these, I mean, it could, and that's part of the huge genius of Marvin Gaye

is that he was able to talk about these issues, poverty, the Vietnam War, in a very personal and specific way, you know, children, not being educated, these things that, I mean, he's not using like metaphors and similarly. He's talking about it. Yeah. And, um, but it still has like a joy and a timelessness and, um, a spirituality to it. A lot of spirituality on this record. That's, I think that, that sort of the, the major minor mix that we hear on this and a couple other of the tracks here on what's going on. Um, it's almost always predominantly major except for a few instances, and I think that is

his, God is love, spirituality, his spiritual philosophy shining through in the chord changes, which I know sounds like unlikely, but I think it's incredibly powerful. And for me, it speaks as much as I love the lyrics and as much as I resonate with how he's

singing them, which I really want to talk about his voice in a minute, but the harmony of this album to me is like masterful in conveying the message of the album. Absolutely. And when we talk about production and arranging, which Marvin did a huge amount. I mean, he produced this whole thing, and he arranged it. We're not just talking about like the string arrangement or the horns and stuff. It's these kinds of things. Marvin either wrote or co-wrote every single song on this record.

He produced the whole thing. He played a bunch. We're going to listen to a bunch of stuff. There's a bit of Stevie vibe on here. He's playing drums. He's playing piano. But these little arrangement things, like when we talk about going to the harmony and stuff is like next level when you match that up with the feeling, with the lyric and stuff like that. Well, and also, it's the harmony on that bridge again. I wonder if you can cue up that chorus from the beginning. But the string line itself, which starts on that B, right, which is the fifth of the key. That's why I say it goes up to the one of the seven.

But it's the nine of the A minor. Right. Becomes the most, one of the most iconic melodies and a through line melodically through the entire album. Right. Here's the pre-chorus. Yeah. A little two to the five. And back and forth.

James James. Kemperson. Killing it on it. All of this in the E major range, one-course. And E-major is a very, like, happy major. The six-core, just like the verse. But twice is fast. And you hear the strings.

And now, go into E-Mind or not. The choir. This bit here. Now to the five stuff. Forget it. Yeah. So great. So great.

Yeah. So, all right, we're going to get into. I got some interesting things for us to listen to on this. But I just want to say first, in terms of like the story for this, they recorded the justice track. They didn't record the whole album. He had the concept and it already started writing a lot of the stuff.

Barry Gordy heard it and it was just like, no, among other things he said, that Scatton, Dizzy Gillespie, that old shit, nobody wants to hear that. Did he really? Yeah, he did. Oh my God. Now, again, allegedly because that's, I guess Barry Gordy never met a you'll hear it, listener. Yeah.

And so, to the point of like, they didn't want to release this as a single. and they didn't want a green light making the record this protest record yeah and so there was a little bit of a standoff because like he's under contract but you can't make him go in and do something but then he can't just release exactly

what he wants so there was a guy and I apologize that I forgot to get his name in there but was another Motown executive that kind of saw the potential for this and somehow behind I mean Motown was a big operation by 1970 you know this was not like the little startup that it was he worked with

Marvin to finish off this track, get it mixed and stuff, print up 100,000 copies of this bad boy, get it out to the record stores and to the radio without Barry Gordy really behind his back. That's amazing. Yeah, and so they released it as a single. Subversive. Huge hit. Incredible. And to Barry Gordy's credit, after that happened, he was like, you know what?

Go ahead and make your process record. He said, my only stipulation is you have to have it done in 30 days. I want this thing coming out immediately to be able to piggyback on this amazing signal. That's a Peter Martin move, right there. That's a Peterbar move to say like, all right, get it done in three weeks. That's right. At first, no, absolutely not. So anyway, but that was a cool thing and just showed Barry Gordy's genius to be able to pivot like that.

Very cool. So really the record, I mean, the single came out in January of 1971, and then the whole record was recorded in 10 days, March 1st through 10th, the rest of it. Nice. But it all came out of kind of the proof of concept with this track. Okay, so when we taught, what I've got here is some interesting things. on a couple tracks, but especially on this first track, what's going on.

All the little details that you can hear, like at the beginning, you hear everybody talking. This is a bunch of the musicians, the Funk Brothers, as they're known, that they're talking. This, Eli Fontaine on Alto Sax, this is kind of an interesting story

because much as the, what is it, Tuesday Heartbreak with Stevie Wonder and Dave Samborn, he was just sort of warming up over that. We talked about that, yeah. Yeah, on this too. That wasn't written in. And Marvin heard him do that.

He's like, oh my God, I love that. We're keeping it. And Eli was just like, no, no, I was just messing around. He's like, no, no, no, no, we're using that. And so a lot of times arranging, it's not just about what you write down or say play this. It's like having that ear and producing. I keep saying arranging, but arranging in production in this kind of a record are almost inseparable. And so like Marvin had such an ear for like these details and the different parts.

How this rhythm, so that's kind of that initial melody, because it's before. Marvin's singing, right? But I mean, as soon as you hear that, you're like, that's what's going on. Yeah, yeah. So you... I just... And it sets up what he's doing,

and James Jamerson's... And if you listen to everything that's happening rhythmically here, there's, of course, James Jamerson famously playing on this, allegedly inebriated. Is he just coming from a gig or whatever? Anyway,

but on drums, Chet Forrest. famously not one of the funk brothers. I was going to say. Yeah, this is somebody that Marvin had heard and brought in. So, like, Marvin was very, like, super involved with every, with the personnel who was going to play, how this was going to happen, and then, like, how the rhythm tracks were put together. Can we just go back a little bit to that saxophone thing and back to the Stevie and David Sandborn thing? I just heard this court this morning that I think captures this, which is that, I think, I think,

it was a heard... Did you hear it on the grapevine? Yes. The grapevine, the author George Saunders, maybe, but talking about

how discovery is a more potent than invention. Right? So, like, we, letting, like, some of these great geniuses

that you think, like, there's so much of this album that's really thought through. Yeah. And the details are really, really, you know,

to, for lack of a better word, bespoke. Yes, very big. You know what I mean? But I think what Marvin, Stevie, I think what all great

producer, especially have in common, is allowing for the room to discover. Yes. And the power that discovery has over invention where it can feel very forced and a little bit removed from the moment. But just being like, yeah, I think that's it.

Just your first impression of it, even when you're just figuring it out. Maybe it's even that combination, you know, that ratio that they hit on this because some of this stuff, as you say, so like well, so specifically arranged And play, but then these other things, like when we get to the last track, you know, the baseline, we have some, I don't know if it's a surprise for a lot of people,

but that was not originally written. That came up, that Bob Abbott, the bassist came up with that thing. Exactly. Let's talk about that. But even the string arranging, from what I understand, was very much like Marvin giving some suggestions. Yes. And, you know, being at a piano. Yep.

And like, I'm sure he's not just coming up with that off the top of his head, but there are these just like melodies that will come. Yes. And him giving it to, I forget who the gentleman is. David Van de Pitt. So he was the arranger and the conductor of the orchestra, and I know that he talked about even feeling like Marvin was over-arranging this. He was just like sometimes I was just transcribing what Marvin was singing or playing.

Great. You know, that's great, though. Yeah. But obviously that was a collaboration there. You know, when things get to, you know what I mean? Yeah. Like, let's keep the melodies strong. That's how I feel about making music.

And there's supposed to be some, like, people think, oh, this is one of the greatest records of all time. Everybody was in this. No, there was like Strife at times, and there was like the head of the record company saying, no, we're not going to release it. And then someone put in the single, I mean, like, it doesn't all, it's, the sausage being made is an adventure.

Strife can make for some good art. This podcast is weird, at each other's throats the minute before we record. But we come on, we're professionals. Right. Okay, so let's break down. I was thinking, I've got almost everything on,

uh, separated out. But I wanted, was thinking kind of like the rhythm track because it seems so like James James James James James James James, uh, and Chet Forrest. drums and bass, right? Can I make a request as we go through this whole hours?

Can we not rush it? I think our listeners will appreciate it. We don't have to, we don't have a time constraint here, Peter. Can we luxuriate? Let's luxuriate on this incredible work of art, please. Well, you know what? We're going to start with something that seems very basic, but I think is integral to this whole album, almost every track.

And that is the Cungas and or Bongoes that are being placed. Of which we sometimes can't tell the difference. But this is Eddie Bongo Brown. Well, it's got to be Bongo's. But we think it's Cungas. But this is sort of that you'll recognize this, but to hear it separated out is pretty amazing, I think. Those sound like cungas to me.

They do sound like cougas. Well, his name's not Eddie Cunga Brown. Obviously, he was a master of both. I mean, the pattern is so basic in a way. These are on what's going on? Yeah, this is what's going on. The feel is. The feel is so great.

And then the little details when he changes it up a little bit. And this is not a loop. youngens. Okay, and then that's, of course, later on top of Chet Forrest on drums. Man, that bass drum sound, come on. So very basic, right? But when you add that in with the James Jamerson line, which sounds even more basic than it does on the original track

when you hear it by itself. So good. Damn. It's the sound, man. I know. It's the sound of the bass. I forget what you call his finger. Is that hooking his finger?

Oh, those triplets. We were talking about... And as busy as, sorry, as busy as he is, when he puts the space, famously busy, the spaces that he chooses so important to. We were talking with our own bass guru here, Bob Dubu about the James Jamerson sound. Famously never changed his string.

In fact, infamously, this is, again, maybe a little bit of legend, but asked someone to weld his broken string back together because it was like... worn in just right, you know. Exactly. And then we've got the piano, which I was shocked when I, when I checked this out.

I mean, this is, it's guitar heavy in a way, but I never heard it as that. I heard it more keys. But this is Marvin on the piano. Fantastic pianist and very simple lines. Really nice. So, like, he really had an interesting ear, you know, obviously for vocal lines,

for vocal backgrounds, but also for piano, like for single line stuff that was counterpoint to what he was singing with the melodies. Now, melodies are so important on this album. I just want to point that out one more time that this isn't just like a cookie cutter, like play some chords on the piano and play some chords on the guitar, like everything of these interweaving melodies coming together between all the background vocals, the strings. Of course there are chords and things, but like there are so many melodies happening all at once.

It's really, even like you mentioned the two, the double lead vocals. Yes. Right? Like two separate takes of a lead vocal, two different concepts of the lead vocal put together incredible yeah they're great and i'll just like for folks that are like wait the melody i thought that's what Marvin is singing well but when we talk about counter melodies it's just i know it sounds counter to it but it's just something else that's happening at the same time like that piano line we're going to go back to the main track here so obviously you've got

you got the melody of the background vocals yes the background vocals there's some vibes on here There's a lot of melodies happen on the vibes. We heard a similar thing. So good. We heard a similar thing on Talking Book, where Stevie is using that Tonto synthesizer system, which was mostly monophonic and using all of these monophonic lines to weave together this tapestry of voices. It's an incredible tool and one that if you make music, you should try. That's right, right.

Okay, so some other things kind of on the rhythm side, well, since we were just listening to it, that the vibes, Jack Prokentia, this is when it gets to the A minor part. A minor nine clusters in there. Yeah, you barely hear that. Yeah. But that's, again, the ranging, like, but it's everything put together. You know, it makes that and then the way it's mixed. On the rhythm side, too, we listen to the bongos, the drums, but there's a really important part, the box drum, which is like a, I think it's almost the same. if not exactly the same as a cajon.

Cajon. Cajon. Cajon with a J, but it's Cajon. Marvin is playing it on this and some other tracks too. But when you hear it, I think you're going to feel what a big part of this whole apparatus it is. Oh, there's no snares on it. No. Cajon usually has.

Oh, Cajon has snares? Okay, so it's just like a box. I think you sit on it, if I'm not mistaken. Cool. Yeah, but I mean, that's cool. Like, that's such a big part of, that combined with the regular drums. Interesting. I don't know if I've heard that.

Like it's almost hard to separate them, you know. But then when you hear it all together, it's like... Can you play the main track again? Let's see if I can hear that box drum. Cat, look at the gack, gang, gang. It really sounds like it's part of the drum set, you know? Yeah, I can't really pick it out on the town. You can kind of hear it in there. Then you hear the vibes, like after you start to hear.

Really interesting, really interesting. Very cool, Pete. Yeah. And then the background vocals, there's a lot of background vocals, almost a choral-like effect. I think it is. I should know that, but yeah, that's got to be. More than one person. Yeah.

Got the snaps. Yeah. That's a little bit of mix. That's the same, like with all the musicians, we're coming. That's the same, like, with all the musicians, we're coming. Yeah, it's just so... Amazing. Yeah, and so that's the background vocals.

The lead vocals, which you mentioned a second ago, like what was common would, the lead vocalist, Marvin Gay in this case, would take several passes at it over the rhythm track or whatever had been built up. But on this record, he would sing a lot of these tunes, the melodies, very differently, almost like he hadn't quite decided on exactly

how it was going to come out on several of these tracks, what the final version was going to be. And so he recorded two vocal versions of this, at least two. And then something got with the mixing engineers, I mean, with the recording engineers got mixed up. And he was like, let me hear both of those. And I think Marvin meant he wanted to hear them each and choose between it.

But the engineer put them both together. And then Marvin heard that. He's like, oh, that's it. Really? And so it's a... It's discovery. And so then they mixed it with that. So this is Lee Vocal 1.

Mother... Which is the one most people are going to be accustomed to... There's too many of you crying. Brother, brother, brother. There's far too many of you dying. And his voice. You know we've got to find a way. His intonation.

To bring some loving here today. And the range of the motion. Father, father. Just tender to pushing. We don't need to escalate. So that's lead vocal one. You know, very much the way we know the melody. Check out vocal two.

Oh, mother, mother, there's too many of you crying. And this wasn't going to be like a harmony line. No, this is another different version. Another way that he heard the melody. There's too many of you dying. What a voice. You know we've got to find a way to bring some love in here today. man so can we spend a couple minutes talking about his his voice and Marvin gay as a singer

yeah for a minute because I feel like and I don't know how you feel about this but like one of the the things that make the difference between like a good musician and good artist and a great artist is their ability to be vulnerable with their instrument you know what I mean I'm thinking I'm talking about Charlie Parker yeah talk about Miles Davis I'm talking about Marvin Gay. I'm talking about Michael Jackson. I'm talking about Kirk Cobain. You know what I mean?

I'm talking about all of these prints, all these incredible artists that wear their heart on their... T-Swift. T-Swift. I'm talking about all the... Chaparone. All these incredible artists that wear their heart on their sleeve. And within the first note that they sing or play,

you know exactly how they feel about the line. You know exactly how they're feeling about this. And it's projected. to you. It's like a great actor that can seemingly do nothing, but look at the table and you, they're giving you context of the emotions that are happening in the scene. And I think Marvin Gaye is maybe the greatest at this. He wears his heart on this. Just when we were hearing talking in that interview in the beginning of this episode, you can hear it in his speaking voice. Yeah. Like he's, there's, there's nothing, seemingly nothing that he's hiding. Like,

he can't. Like it just comes out in the way he expresses himself. And it's a real, I think it's a real God-given gift because it's just so natural for him. Every line he sings, you feel. Every note that he sings feels like the emotion he's trying to project.

It's a true master of that. Yes. Truly, I mean, really put him in there with Miles as far as like his ability to do that. Yeah. Yeah, as you were describing that so eloquently, I was thinking, you know, that vulnerability that wear your heart on your sleep.

that that direct connection with your instrument, right? And how you then transmit that and connect with the audience. The other person I was thinking of was Billy Holiday that had that in her voice. Like that's, I mean, Marvin Gay and Billy Holiday and the others we mentioned too, but that might be the apex moment for vulnerability of the voice, you know. And it's a stunning thing, really. It truly is. Yeah.

And I think the reason that this record, even above all, possibly of Marvin's other really interesting and wonderful recordings, like everything kind of got dialed in like because he was so involved with the production of everything, the arranging, you know, these piano lines. You know, everything was a passion project. It was a passion project. Yeah. And then so that must have just placed his voice within that so so beautifully, you know. Also, he's in a sweet spot in his career. I mean, he is, he is at mastery level. Yeah.

Like you said, he's 31. He's been doing it for a while. Yeah. At the highest level, working with the best people. Yep. And just his musical chops are unmatched. Yeah, yeah. It's pretty great.

So I had another little vocal thing I just love because I started talking about this. Sounds like Disigalaspe, scatting. But this is just killing a little vocal line that... Talk to me. You'll... So you can see... What's going on? What's going on?

What's going on? What's going on? Who? Jeez. Right on, baby. Man. Right on. Ha, ya-ja-ya-ya-ya-ya-ya-ya-ya-ya-ya-ya-ya-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha.

Right on, right on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. To the five, though. To be-be-do-who. And then just... Right on, bro. His instrument itself has this softness to it. Yeah. You know what I mean?

It has this sort of, like, round edge. even when he gets gruff with the what's going on, growls a little bit, there's still a tenderness to the voice itself. It's really special. And then his rhythmic attenuation, but to be, bo, boo, but you peep, boop, and then, like, how it layers over the harmony and stuff. The intonation spot, it's incredible.

Yeah, because, I mean, there's some amazing vocalist that you pull it apart like this and you hear it. It's not quite like, oh, it's not. I mean, like, that's actually stunning that he's nailing those, like, thirds and going up to the minor nine, like, just the way he's doing it with that, that kind of thing. And then you layer that. that on top of this brilliant music, this brilliant song that he wrote, these incredibly poignant lyrics for the time, and you get maybe the greatest double in history.

Okay, talking about layering, I think there's one part that we haven't included yet in the, I think we've got pretty much everything else already, and this might be a part that's kind of interesting to you. I love this. Really? Yeah, I love this. Octaves. Octaves.

Probably, oh. That's the A minor. And that's going back to the second verse. I mean, the string stuff on this, we could sit here and geek out on this and listen to this all day. But I can tell you, so it's David Van DePitt, who was the conductor and arranger on this. A really cool thing was this was all members

of the Detroit Symphony Orchestra, and including the concert master, the legendary concert master, Gordon Staple, like what you just heard there, in some ways, it's as an arranger and like both you and I have done string arrangement quite a bit.

Some of that's relatively simple to like figure out and to understand what it is. But I can tell you that the level of playing on this, like you can tell it on the track with everything, but when you break it apart, it's kind of like Marvin's voice. It's like you're like what? Like there's that level of like

I don't even want to say professionalism because that doesn't quite hit it. Just like great artists like you hear. That's five first violins four second violins, four violas, three cellos, and just one bass. It's not like a huge orchestra. It sounds like it, but you can hear the individuals playing. And a special shout out to Richard Margitsa on violin, whose son, Rick Margitsa, some of you may know. I've known for years from when I first went to New Orleans, was a great saxophone,

was played with Miles Davis at the end of his career. He's been living in Paris. He used to record from Blue Note Records. That was his dad on Violet Lynn, legendary member of the DSO, which still is, one of the great orchestras. in the world. So I love that they didn't cut corners. They didn't get the, they went right to the 18th in town.

That string section is amazing. You said it was 5.5, 5, 4, 4, 3, 3.1. So 5 first, 4 seconds, four violas, 3 celli, and one bass. And one base. So that bass is so important when they hit that chord, that A minor, 9th.

Yeah. Like, that's, this actually changed my string ranging, and we're gonna, we're about to do an episode on Birth of the Cool as well, which has, you know, obviously a bass player in the rhythm section, and a tuba.

Yeah. This album obviously has, you got James Jamerson playing the electric bass, but you have an acoustic bass. Yeah. If you are writing for an ensemble... With both.

With bow. If you're writing for an ensemble, do not skimp on the low end of the ensemble. Just that one tuba, that one bass player, a tuba in the winds, or whatever,

bass clarinet or contra bassoon, or if you're doing strings, like add a string bass to that ensemble, that changed everything for me as an arranger because when I started, Like, you know, when you first start out, you're like, well, we don't need the bass in the strings because you got a base. You're not going to hear it or it's going to be too much down there. But it just fills out the chord in a way that you don't get otherwise.

And so I love this instrumentation because that's just enough musicians to make it sound incredibly full. And I think it's a, the arranging itself is spectacular. All those, the octaves, obviously with the violins on the top and probably the violi in the viola and the cello. Like an octave down. Yeah. And then, like, they hit that chord. Oh, man. Yeah.

I mean, it's, again, it's like details, but it's execution. You know what I mean? It's the vibe. I mean, you can hear it. And I think all these elements, like, what makes this track great? It's like, it's all that. You know, it's everything starting from the simplest, you know. Like, you don't have that.

The thing doesn't work. You don't have, obviously, that. But also, like, how do you even, like, think about combining these things? And then it becomes, you know, let's go to that part with the, since you gave us the gift of time, right? We're gonna go to that bridge. Oh, what do you call that? The A minor's saying, the interlude, yeah. When the strings, so the strings come in on the pre-chorus here.

Yeah, that's the first time they're in. And they're pretty far back in the mix still, right? Now a little more. That was all that single line stuff we heard. Oh, sorry, sorry. Oh, man, I killed the vibe. That was a little foreshadowed, don't worry. Sorry. Oh, I got back to it.

So good, man. Those little bony horns. Yeah. Yeah, also don't sleep when you're doing the, you're doing horns. You're doing horns and you're doing strings in a big arrangement. Yeah, that single note line mixing up single note lines with chords. Oh. I mean, think about all the, and then the mix.

We got to talk about the mix, too. Because when you get all this great stuff, getting all this great stuff in, but do that, well, that's that dizzy Gillespie jazz again. Nobody wants that, right? But when you, the mix, for those that don't nerd out on this stuff, but love this album, you know, the mix just means how this shit sounds, right? Yeah, it sounds good or not. It's like, that's the end result of a great mix, we should say. But the mix is like where you're placing, like we heard those strings, they're so when you, it seems like, you know, all this dynamics and stuff.

But within the mix, they're brought down until they're not, you know, at different times. And so making that decision, like, where does the bass lie? Where does the, of course, Marvin's main vocal, but then the vocal two is a little below. And then not only volume, but you're right, you're left in the center. A lot of decisions. A lot of decisions.

Especially with this dense, really a lot of to do. And apparently, they even, like, with the strings, they went back and remix some of this stuff because the quality control department at Motown was like, we want a better mix on the street. And they went to the studio at L.A. And they were like, we're going to pay for another. I mean, same session, same record.

They just wanted to place a different. Again, that's what we do here in this podcast. Sometimes I'll say a line and I'll be like, no, let's redo it. Remix that. Really? Yeah. Okay. Good.

All right. We can sit here on this first track forever, but I thought, I don't even know if we're, there's nine tracks on this album. And then, you know, so they started recording the rest of the record in January. No, no. January is when 71 is when what's going on came out just as a single. it was number one soul single and number two on the pop charts on the Hot 100

So that's when Barry Gordy was like Okay let's make the whole album I said 30 days he wanted it done And they did it March 1st through 10th It was released on May 21st That's what I'm talking about They used to be like efficient about their shit back there Ben

It's like get that shit out And then it became the number one On Rolling Stone's greatest 500 albums So it turns out you can rush greatness 30 40 years later Yeah but it was a huge hit I mean for like a year It was on like you know

Huge on the Soul Chubes and pretty big, I don't have all that. Who cares about that? It's a great record. Shout out to the engineers, recording engineers, Steve Smith and Kenneth Sands. Boom, boom, boom.

So let's go on to the next track. Or should we even mix this in with maybe some of the apex moments? I think we can move on to the categories because we're going to have a lot of the tracks in here for the categories, Peter. Okay, so let's jump first to apex moments because that'll get us. Yeah. Okay, this record, you know, you can hear it. Get the vinyl if you can or even the CD or somehow.

trained Spotify to like go, it's supposed to go continuously from each song to the next. It's weird if you hear these as separate tracks. That's the way Marvin and the other producers and engineers and musicians, that's how they conceived. That's how Marvin conceived it. It's what they call a concept record, right? So it's conceptual

not only in terms of the content and the music, but famously coming out of what's going on, going into the second track, what's happening, brother, it just continues to go. It didn't on the radio, I noticed. But it just continues. This is with the same chord, the same five chord, suscord, that B, and then it modulates up.

So we're going to start, which is weird, right on the... It's an incredible move here. It's an incredible move. And look, this is going to... When Marvin comes in, this is my apex moment, but full disclosure. Are you texting our attorneys? No, no, no. I'm looking up another.

There's a couple of incredible, like, track-to-track moves that happen on some classic albums. Yeah. Does it get me better than this one, though? Greatest first track to second track transition ever? ever? That might be the apex. I'm trying to...

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, optimistic to in limbo on Radiohead's Kid A is another one that seamlessly transitions, but I think this might be the goat. Yeah, but I mean, and this is like, it's such a template

for one way of doing it too, which is really interesting. But we're going to start right on the second track, what's happening, brother. But my apex moment is when Marvin comes in on this half- diminished core,

because I'm like, what the hell, half diminish, first of all. It's greatest. But what, just listen to what, I mean, everybody knows this. So this is your favorite moment of the whole album? This is my favorite.

I can't say that. You know my favorite album of the whole album? My favorite moment? Yeah, that's what it is. The whole album. This is my apex one of the great ones. If everything's the greatest moment, nothing's the good. Well, is this the greatest album of all time or not, buddy?

Come on. We still haven't answered that question. But just, so when we talk about apex moments, it's the specific moment, but it's always, it's like what we talk about at Open Studio with voicing. There's no such thing as a great voicing. Yes, there is. No, they. So what?

But even so what is so what? So it's like, what do you... That's funny. You knew I was playing so what just based on the shape of my hands. It is a great voicing, but not on its own. It's not as great as like, what do you play before? What do you play after? It's like, what's your favorite word of all time?

What's the greatest word? Duh. Yeah, but you got to put it in a sentence. Like, you know, then I was like, duh, come on, dude. You know, then it's more interesting context. Great word. So check out the context on, um, on what happens,

and of course, think about what's going on, the whole track, if you're listening to it from the beginning, but even on this, to get to the entry point of where Marvin comes in on what's happening, brother. James Jamerson, big part of this. Kind of like, what are we doing? Sprinkles.

And when you listen in context, from what's going on, yes. Yeah, please, everybody, do us a favor, do yourself a favor. If you don't listen to this whole record, start on the first track, and just get to this point. Like your life will be elevated.

Because what's going on ends with quite a long interlude. Yeah. On that, da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da it does it. Yeah, the B suss. For a while, that bee suss. And then it goes straight into this. And the tempo, I think, pulls back just a little bit.

But then it just builds. It goes out to that chromatic movement. And then that half-diminish chord, you're just like. Can we listen to that again? And the way he sings, hey baby. Oh, and then, okay, so the way he sings that, the timing of it, the intonation, and then James Jamerson's

counter, like we're talking about counter melodies, other melodies, his reaction to that. Busy AF, perfect AF. Can you keep this one going? Yes, of course. The first what's happening brother is actually chill-inducing as well. It really is. And then the bells, that's another little melody that comes.

I think that was, as you said, a Glocken spiel. It would be a chelesta. It could be, actually, you're right. Jamerson's already, you know, Chet, Forrest, on drums. Bongo And it's building, right? It's percolating.

What else is new, my friend? This is what I read. It's a harmonic journey. Can't find no work, we find no job. It's tighter than it's said, and I just don't understand what's going on.

Yeah. That clock gets me a brave, Ray and Ray crush. Are they still? Second verse. And then literally here. Completely genius. Yeah.

The whole context of this song is him talking to someone that he has. His brother. That has talked to for so long. Yeah. And describing their lives. And you get this feeling of the struggles and what they're going through and the issues they're having to deal with and ways that they're strategizing to try to like at least have some joy, have a life within some chaos. Yeah.

It's incredible. As he's telling the story, this is what was written for his brother Frankie, who was in Vietnam during this time. It's so, like, we were talking about at the beginning. It's so specific, lyrically. But, like, as he's describing, like, you know, dealing with these different situations and stuff, the harmony, I mean, like, the melody jumping around

of these little details, but the harmonic journey that he goes on and, like, the tension and the release. Incredible. And just, like, the journey, the harmonic journey. Oh. Yeah. And notice, too, the first two tracks here are both questions, right?

Yeah. What's going on? Yeah. What's happening, brother? Yeah. Like there's just two questioning, prodding tracks, musically and lyrically. Incredible. That's great.

Let's go. We have less than a minute left. Can we listen to the rest of this track? Oh, James Jamerson, that's a P-Bas, right? A precision, Fender Precision, I believe, is the model, the famous model that he had. I just want to throw that out there. Well, it's not call people names, but yeah. A P-base.

That's what they call. Base players nerd out on that, so it's important. You know, here's the rest. Like this second first. His variations on verse. I think Jameson. I'm going to go on. This here.

What's happened? What's happened? I think Jamberson's the theme. Boom, good, good, good thing. Oh, I love that. What's happening on that? Oh, oh, oh, what's happening? He didn't even talk about his syncopation of his rhythms.

Vocal syncopation. What's been shaking open? What's been shaking. Oh, yeah. Alarm. Right angle, baby? Yeah. Oh.

So this is a great transition. I'm going to try to kind of pull it off. It goes right into this. Oh. This is kind of, this is flying high in the front. This is like a transitional song. A little jazz in six. Yeah, the strings hanging on that nine,

on the minor nine chords. Yeah. Hallmark of the album. You can't put strings on a nine. Right. about people feeling what's going on. And like, I mean this with all due respect, Jamerson is walking a jazz baseline like only a great funk bass player can on electric

base. Like, I think he had a written out line that he's just making his own. Yeah, and I mean, this is really one of the jazzier cuts. You know what I mean? Like, there's all these transitional, I mean, they're transitional. I don't mean like, oh, you're getting to the next thing. It's a concept. It's a story.

the whole first, the A side and the B side. And I think that that's why I do go towards, you know, ultimate jazz, solo album, jazz album. Like, there's a lot of just straight up jazz. Like, to me, jazz is not about the groove. It's about, like, the harmonic embellishment. We were debating a little bit like, well, there's not collective improvisation or not a lot.

There's a whole lot of improvisation on this record. Vocal improvisation. There's some great sax solos, too. No, you're not feeling it. Okay. Anyway, but it is a great record, right? Oh, yeah. I mean, look, we could just keep listening

to the whole record, it would be good. The next cut, you got any you got any notes so far? Sorry, so we hit my Apex. I got no notes on this album. No notes. We've already got... Okay, so we haven't got to the Desert Island tracks

to Apex, so we're going to kind of keep moving along here. This is an interesting track, Save the Children. This is another one with like an undercurrent of three. Well, the melody... Save the World. It's like moving melody. the whole time underneath the spoken word thing.

Yeah. And then the spoken word where he's singing, well, we're going to get to it. Heavy jazz harmonies on there. There'll come a time. You're minor. There'll come a time. When the world won't be singing,

the flowers won't grow. Flowers won't grow. Bells won't be ringing. So that's, and that's Jameserson doing a lot of the, like the main drum meter but he's doong chung-tun kind of a double time with three, six, whatever it is, six to eight kind of superimposed on it

with Jamerson doing his thing. Similar groove to the fly-hound. The choral string, chileas piano line that's happening underneath there really defining everything. It's not just about the harmony. It's not just about the chord changes. Like these melodies that are happening,

again, leaning on the nines of these chords. Stacking up the thirds that you hear in almost every track. is the hallmark of this. Yeah, and I mean... A great way to get a signature of an album, of a sound, right? Is to, like, keep these melodies

happening throughout. Really cool. Yeah. And I mean, it's not... I don't want to give this short shrift in terms of like... These are some of the best lyrics on this cut, Save the Children.

And it's the call of response. It's the church. Marvin, of course, came from a deeply religious background. You know, grew up into church and was in and out of the church and a lot of, you know, really shaped his life,

his spirituality and stuff. But this kind of, some people might be like, oh, did he get that from Kirk Franklin where he talks and then they sing? It's like, no, it comes from the church, call in response, we call that. But it's a really interesting example, several places on the record, but especially on this track, number four, save the children. Can we go to the next track? Yeah. God is love. This almost made my desert island track.

It could have. Very easily. Starting on the five plus again. A lot of stars scores on the show. Yeah. This is my friend. This is another one of my apex moment. Four.

And I love his rhythm on this. Is we give each other love. Oh, yeah. We'll get that the next time it comes around. Because God is my friend. Jesus is my friend. He kind of sneaks in the Jesus system. Oh.

Oh. To the four. And the way that he does these two lines here. Woo. Oh, yeah. Love your love you love your love. The lyrics are so, like, he's got such an interesting, like,

sophistication and innocence. Absolutely. And vulnerabilities, you said. Like, there's a certain level of innocence that really connects, I think, with humanity. It's why you're so popular, perhaps. But, like, with his, like, the lyrics. love your mother

she bore you I mean it's like who can get away with saying that it's very simple it's very simple it's very like universal

direct authentic humanity concepts you know what I mean it's just love your mother she bore you sometimes

artists might get in their head and overthink some of this stuff but it's just like it's just talk about what's important in a very genuine way yeah

no one better and then layer that in with a very sophisticated musicality like do boopo boop like the rhythm so harmony is easy to say all those be simple but as we know being simple takes a lot of sophistication exactly do it at this level is exactly um okay now we're coming to track number six and this i believe is your desert island track do you want to kind of intro this or or or talk about i would like to listen to this really it's

mercy mercy me okay this one i've got a lot of stumbles all i'm telling you put it Oh, another sauce. Again, all these themes. Moving up. Half step again. What a great way to get some of the next ring. It's my favorite vocal performance. Yeah.

A lot more guitar on this track that we've heard. Two guitar. Oh, mercy, mercy me. This is that part of his voice is so beautiful. Yeah. Oil wasted on the oceans and fished full of mercury. Oh, mercy, mercy in it. How does this not sound dated at all?

I believe browning in the sky animals and spirits live near by our nights I think it's a bongo just with all that Motown reverb it almost sounds like a radar

pig or something I wonder if that's the drumbox again I think it is because the bongo is up when it comes up strings yeah we see why

mine keeps coming back and then this transition one of the most like crazy kind of and with the sacks building it up strings up high harmonics

might have ripped that stern I don't know many times oh the woodwinds yeah I know man oh I've got those on the end here ribato weird and great

greatest use of an operatic soprano pop music history maybe? So great. Okay, so what do you want to hear first on this? What do you got? Okay, you were talking about the percussion. Maybe we can hear it on here. It sounds like either a woodblock or a cowboy.

I think a woodblock, yeah. But on the track, it's going through some crazy reaver. Yeah. That might be Celeste. We keep saying bells, but. Oh, yeah, it might be. All right, so that's that. It's a very aggressive.

Yeah, it is. But we've got two guitars on here. Check it out. This is guitar one. that's also what's happening on inner city blues i think yeah i'm such a sucker for a big open guitar oh man it's so great just laying down the bed it's like a pad on a synth or something yeah and then you hear it like this you're like a guitarist's like way i could do that oh you can and these are called like what kind of voices you call this on guitar simple right i'm be relative i don't know so

that's a little contrast right rhythm guitar dry as a bow Yeah, it sounds like no time to me. I know. I think that rhythm guitar, more than anything on here, like you can kind of hear, well, you can hear it. Like, you could have just been Marvin and here, but it wouldn't have been as good,

but it would have been really good. Now, here's the wins. There's some weird stuff in the winds that we heard. Some saxophone, oboe, bassoon stuff. Stack thirds. In the same range as that guitar with the open song. Yeah. Just some trumpets there.

That's great stuff. Wow, what a stem. And then. Of course. Mercy, mercy me. What is it? C sharp? I'm not sure.

D sharp? D sharp? I think it's a... A lot of E major on this. A lot of E major. Yeah, that E to D sharp. Couldn't be a better two-note range in a human's voice. Man, he's phrasing.

The displacement. And upon our seas, fish full of mercury. I mean, that's what we were talking about. Fish full of mercury. He's not like... You know, people are doing some crazy shit with AI. Can we get Marvin Gay reading the book to us, please? You know what I mean?

Come on. Read the newspaper to be something, anything. Oh, it's so great. Make something useful of it. And then I think what really pulls the arrangement side of this, you know, the strings on this are just... Let's check it out. That was done well. It's high, man.

That's high. That's good. Is that G sharp? Yeah. Don't write that if you don't have the right players. That's a, that's some high level. I'm in a professional major symphony orchestra. I'm coming in and nail this.

A.B. And nicely recorded at the studio, they had a bigger studio, Hitsville 2 and had another name too. That's incredible. They nailed the engineer on that. What a sound too. Again, 5443-1 sounds like a full. Sounds like a massive.

six piece string section. So we mentioned Gordon Staples, the concert master on this. Fun little side note, he did so many Motown sessions that they gave him his own record in the same year, well, 1970.

A little record, I don't know if you've ever heard this before. It's called Strung Out. Great title, right? For a string, Motown record, you're like, where could this go wrong? Buddy, you know, I love a pun title. It's got two puns.

The band, the group they call it Gordon Staples and the string thing doing strung out. strung out. Yeah. It sounds like an Edgar Meyer Yo-Yo Ma folk project, you know, Bela Fleck product

project. I like that. That's Motown. That's a Motown strings record. This is all good. You said it's all good. You're okay with that? You do by that.

Do me how? Okay. Are you okay then? You know what we call that? A Starsky and Huts, slow speed chase. When's Marvin coming in? I know, right? Such a cool thing.

Shout out Motown. Shout out Gordon Staples and the string thing. All right, so then we've got, we're going to move, can we move on to, I hate to even do this. But it's kind of, well, who has this as there? Oh, I've got it as my Desert Island track. The final track on this record. Yeah. This is why this may be like, we talk about perfect record.

We don't talk about perfect record. Is there a perfect record? We don't know. But if this is one, this is like when you're maintaining, you're transitioning, there's a concept. And then you get to the end and it's not like a throwaway track. It might be the strongest track. So there is a concept and we've had some listeners put it in some of our comments. Thank you for commenting, by the way.

But there's no such thing as like a perfect for everyone record. But did the artist achieve what they set out to do with their album? And in that way, is it perfect? I think this is one of those cases where Marvin Gay obviously had a vision and like totally, Totally nailed it. Yeah. He wanted to tell us what's going on. And he did.

He did. He crushed it. Yeah. Yeah. And it is a political record. It is a love record. It is a religious record or a spiritual record, you could say. It's all these things.

For sure. But I think ending on the iconic inner city blues and like the message on this is super interesting. So I have this as my desert island track. You also have the very beginning, the intro as your apex moment. This is my apex moment. Just the first, literally the first notes, I think, are some of the great notes. Is it notes or is it like everything? We're going to say they're musical notes.

Yeah. And they are perfect. And we're going to break it down, I think. But, I mean, what can we do? Let's check it out. Inner City Blues make me want to holler. All right. I mean, it's just, stop.

It's great. It's the greatest. The way each element is introduced. By the time you get here, you're like, I'm in. Suss, Major Third. This ain't living. This is a living. Check out the base.

This is Bob Babbitt. Famously, not James Jamerson, like a lot of people think. It's Bobby Hall on the percussion, too, right? On the bongos? I think so, yeah. The variation on the baseline is way more than you would think if you check it out. Whip-boom. Marvin's improv. What do you do?

Up to the major third on that base, on to that G? Third verse. Setbacks. I love the drums here, too. No cymbals, no high hats. Oh. Trigger happy. Trigger happy police it.

It's that Disney Gillespie B-Beebop. It's genius, man. Yeah. And then one of the great moments, this should have been my apex moment. There's such a like drone like cat, cat. You know, it's just so atmospheric this track.

I'm a big fan when drummers like... A flu? I'm a big fan when drummers use the kids. I'll save it. If like half step below the five. No, go ahead. I mean, the ending, the last minute is like such a different kind of thing.

Maybe we'll come back to that at the very end. Because the way the record ends is like stunning, I think. I'm such a sucker for when a drummer uses, like doesn't have to use the whole kit all on every song that you're playing. Whether it's in a set or whether it's on an album, like just taking symbols out. Ringo Starr did this all the time, right? Just like no symbols, just drums. I think it's so effective because

you're sort of like default is like, okay, the hi-hat's going to do this and then the ride's going to do that. But like, you don't need it all the time. Like everything is a color. It's the same. I mean, we do the same thing with piano. Sometimes we forget to use the extremities of the piano

or different colors that we have available to us. And it's always a great reminder that there's more colors available on your instrument than you're probably employing in any given situation. And oftentimes that means taking stuff away. Yeah. Addition by subtraction.

Like, what are you going to decide to play? I'm wondering if that isn't just the drum box. if it isn't even like... It sounds like it's just a kick in the snare, but I couldn't be wrong. Yeah, but I mean, it wouldn't real... I mean, it just... I couldn't imagine a drummer

not hitting something at some point. You know, it's almost like... But it's, again, like, this is a big part of, I think they're arranging on here. There's the string arranging, which we've broken down, and it's on a bunch of these tracks, which is just stunning.

The way it's played, the way it's layered in. There's the rhythm tracks. There's the... But, like, all this stuff is arranged, is arranged, you know, like how the different guitars that... I mean... Yeah.

Man, this might be a perfect. It's funny, I didn't come into this thinking it's like, this is the perfect record. He sold you, though. But I think from beginning, from top to bottom, this is a perfect record. I'm putting it out there. And the way that it ends is like, you know, we're going to listen to that on the way out. So let's get to some categories. You've already done the desert island tracks, right?

Intercity Blues is your desert island track. Mercy, mercy, me is my desert island track. We already done both of our apex moments. Yours was Marvin's entry on What's Heaven and Brother, which is incredible. And mine is the intro up until the verse. It's really all of inner city blues, but I think that intro is so special. What do you got for a bespoke?

Oh, and I just want to say, shout out Bob Babbitt, who played the bass line, and I believe wrote it or came up with it. It might have been a thing of Marvin's singing. Who knows? Yeah. But they, like, talking about details.

They came back, because he was playing all that stuff up high. Yeah. Like, they came back. I don't know if it was Marvin or I can't remember what the story is. I think it was like, I want to hear that lower, that E-flat, an octave lower two.

So they came in and layered. that down low as well. Actually two bass tracks on here. And you've got here on the bongos is a funk sister. Yes. Not a funk brother. Right. We have the funk brothers.

We have, I don't know how many female frunk brothers there were. But Bobby Hall, shout out to Bobby Hall out of Detroit on the bongos, very accomplished percussionist on a number of Motown sessions and different things, bongos on the inner city blues. So some categories, Peter. So we've got our bespoke Spotify playlist title. What do you got on that? I got soul jazz for the win. Soul jazz for the win.

I never know. Is it Soul Jazz or Jazz Soul? Which is better? Soul Jazz. This is Soul Jazz. I like that. I like that. Yeah.

What you got, Adam? I've got a couple. I've got Soul of Society. Soul of Society. Uh-huh. Okay, I'm not my best work. But you've hedged there. You've got a secondary.

I've got cinematic soul. I love that. Because I feel like this whole album. Very cinematic. With the themes running through it, it actually feels like 70s cinema of this time. Yeah. was like,

Oh, and the cover two goes with that? Yeah, it was gritty. It's got a real message. It's not like just spoon-fed pop music. Well, we're going to get to that in accoutrements. Oh, sorry. No, but it's like, you're right, cinema. Like, he could be a detective,

a Detroit detective show on ABC on that. You know what I mean? It's an amazing. Right. I mean, Marvin Gaye, by the way, just in general, one of the most stylish people to ever live. One of the most attractive. Are we allowed to say that?

A very attractive gentleman. Yeah. Obviously. Oh, produced by Marvin Gay. Yeah, the sun is hot. Yeah. And so was Marvin Gay. No, so up next, what other albums pair with this?

I have, this is, I've been listening to a great one, man. A lot of Dorothy Ashby. So one of our dear listeners. Detroit. One of our dear listeners when we did our songs in the Key of Life, which we might have to re-song in the Key of Life for our new season here. But we did songs in the Key of Life, and we were talking about if it's magic. Yeah.

And I was like, I wonder, I didn't have the, personnel up and I was like, I forget who's playing harp and one of our dear listeners says, oh, surely you guys know about... Like 30 of our dear listeners. Yeah, surely you know about Dorothy Ashby, which I know the name, but I've actually, you know, we all have blind spots. You never really checked out her music. And I've been listening to nothing but Dorothy Ashby all year.

And I just, Dorothy's harp, which came out in 1969, a couple of years before this album, what's going on. But listen to this. This is by the time I get to Phoenix. Do you like subsports? Oh, my God. It's real, man. We ought to do a Dorothy Ashby.

Oh, we got it. records she made in the late 60s. So good. So again, is that the strongout strings playing behind her? Oh, killing. Oh, man. Dorothy Ashby for the win. Dorothy Ashby, playing harp on Stevie Wonder's If It's Magic from Songs in the Key of Life,

also had these three albums in a row in the late 60s, these like soul jazz, in this genre that you're talking about, and just incredible music. Yeah. Incredible, incredible music. We should do a whole run. Man, shout out Detroit Mission. in. You know what I mean?

Think about all these musicians that are either from there or came there and did this. I mean, Motown Records obviously a huge part of that. But talk about something in the water, something in the music education system during that time, I'm sure. Because we're talking about some amazing, you know, amazing, like, generational artists, of course, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gay. But also just, when we talk about support musicians, string players, you know, Dorothy Ashby, you know, who is it? Eddie Bongo Brown, James Jamerson. It's very easy to think of these people as support.

Like, we're talking about some of the greatest artists on their instruments of all time. Outsized. Outsized music. The Funk Brothers. Yeah. No, Detroit, punching above its weight for how big of a city it is with how many great musicians and albums came out of there.

So for your up next, you put Stevie Wonder's interview. I mean, that's kind of an obvious thing. And I think this is a perfect pairing. Yeah. Inner City Blues, right? Living for the City. Yeah. would go just perfectly.

Very influential on each other. Don't worry, folks. We're going to get to Inevision. It's on the list. Man, talking book, a lot of people were like, it's all right, but intervention. It's coming, y'all. It's coming.

Yeah, there's a little foreshadowing form here. All right. What about quibble bits? What do you got? I have none, except on Spotify, making it so hard and making it not default that you seamlessly transition just like on the LP.

Why can't we get there? Maybe my settings are right. I got it, but there's still like a little bit of a break. I want to be able to hear this all the way through. I have none. I have no quibovic on this at all. Snobometer.

One being not snobby and 10 being extremely snobber. Man, I have to go with my often quoted five on the snobometer because it's totally... No, it's not snobby, but it's not extremely snobber. Okay, what do you have?

And then please explain, sir. I have two, because it's on Rolling Stones top 500 albums of all time, number one. So it's got to be not snobber. So why would it not be one then? It could be one, but because... But is Aunt Linda going to, like love this? No.

And is Ethan Iversing gonna, he probably. Okay. So it really should be more of an eight or nine then. No, no, no, no. It's not snobby though. It's very, it's very commercially successful, Peter. It's one of the best selling albums of all time. That's not what the snobometer measures, commercial appeal. It does. If something

is snobby, it's not commercially. We said, on Linda, Ethan and Iverson. No, we say, is something snobby or is it not snobby? Is it a... So on Linda and Ethan Iverson are gone. We're taking those out of the... For months, they've been gone. I haven't mentioned either of them. You keep bringing them up. So it's just a record. The snobometer measures record sales.

No, no, no. It's like the R-I-I-A-A record industry of America, America. Do you know what snobby means? Yes. Is it snobby? Yeah, I think this is a very snobby record. Okay. I consider myself a music snobber.

And I love this record because I'm confused. Because I do think on Linda would like it. We might have to scrap the snobometer. Is it better than kind of blue? You go first. Yes, it is. You know what? Yes, it is.

Yeah, it is. It is better than kind of blue. Wow. You know what? I had a maybe, and you've been getting on me about that. But after sitting here and experiencing it with you and with the dear listeners and viewers, I think it is, man.

If we count... Because I don't know that KOB is a perfect album. And I don't know if this is, but I... But I think... Uh-oh, look, you're getting worried. He's thinking about... Not at all! You know what?

I think this is a perfect record. Because I have no quibble bits with it. Yeah, he nailed what he was going. He nailed it. He nailed it. And Miles nailed kind of blue, too. He did. That's very...

Like, this is apples and oranges, for real. But if... Is it better than Kob is really about which one do I prefer? I prefer this to Kobb. Okay. Gotcha. Acute de Montz. You hate Kielby.

Got it. Title. So first of all, if we just take the title of the album, what's going on. That's so great. Incredible title. Yeah.

Incredible title for what it's saying. If we take the cover, it's amazing. If we take the back cover, look at that, folks. Oh, so good. Look at that guy. Look at that suit.

Man, the graphic design, the photography on this. You've got... A monochromatic tie shirt and thing going on. The details. Black patent leather trench coat with the collar up and there's like snow in his hair. Do you know what that jacket would cost

in a hipster thrift store? today. It would be $10,000. $10,000. Well, that specific jacket should be in the Smithsonian. But here's like the family, this is called family photo album. And look at all those people. It gives you the vibe of what he's singing for here. What's going on?

And then all the lyrics printed. I miss the days when all the lyrics were printed. So great. And all the, every musician, every musician is listed. Yeah, I mean, this is great. And I, you know, there's some details on this. Look at his hair. Is that like snow or rain?

Yeah, there's like some snow or something. And this font, I call it the Charlie Brown Christmas font, whatever you call that. So that's some late 60s, early 70s, like, sort of like Renaissance Fair font. Yeah, it's a little bit, a little bit weird because it goes to it. But I mean, it's perfect for this record. It's perfect. The whole thing produced by Marvin Gay. This, like Jungle Gym or something, this, the graphic design, this is a lot of intentionality put to this.

Yeah. That color there. and this rule of thirds. It looks awesome. It looks awesome. I got a 10 out of 10. It does what it's supposed to do. It evokes what you want to hold it while you're listening to this record. I also have 10 out of 10. Yeah. I mean, if this isn't a perfect album

and perfect album cover for a Cuchamon's what is, yeah. Okay, so please leave us a comment. So we do like to read your comments. Peter, this one is from YouTube. And this is, I believe, from our Stevie Wonder episode from Talking Book. This has been listening every week for the last couple of months. every week since I've downloaded at least

one album based on what I've heard. Thank you for this program. And that is from Alfonso Alfonso Mina, 7248. Thank you, Alfonso. Well, don't give it all his info. You give him his phone number or social security number? No, it's all good.

Thank you for that. And please leave us a rating or review where you get your podcast. You can also leave us a comment on Spotify. We will read your Spotify comments. You still have to show me how to find those. Peter doesn't believe it's possible, but it is possible. And also on YouTube, leave us a comment.

How about a seven-star review? Could we ever get back to that? Remember when we used to ask for seven-star reviews? Put that in the comments on YouTube if you guys are OG. Seven stars. Seven stars. Put seven stars. Yeah.

Which is impossible, by the way. It only goes up to five, but we request seven. Don't discourage that. Seven stars. Can we play something fun going out? Sure. What do you want to do?