You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - "The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill" – Lauryn Hill

Episode Date: December 1, 2025

The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill was one of the BIGGEST records of the 90s. When you sell 20 million records, like Lauryn Hill did, you're into mass market territory; you're selling records all over the world and reaching across genres. With Miseducation, Lauryn Hill struck a nerve with humanity.  How did she do it?As you'll hear in this episode, the album sounded unlike other chart-topping hits at the time. It features tons of acoustic instruments, beautiful chord progressions, Stevie Wonder vibes, palatable melodies, a D'Angelo cameo and deeply personal storytelling. And Lauryn Hill herself has the presence of an actor with the soul of an underground musician.Listen with us as we parse through Lauryn Hill's only album track-by-track to answer the question: What makes this album great? Start your free Open Studio trial for ALLLLL your jazz lesson needs: https://osjazz.link/yhi   00:00 - Intro Jam: "Doo Wop (That Thing)"02:05 - A Concept Album About Love04:55 – The Fugees, Sister Act II & Stardom07:40 - "Intro" + "Lost Ones"10:50 - “Ex-Factor”13:15 - "To Zion (Feat. Carlos Santana)"20:05 - "Doo Wop (That Thing)"21:45 - "Superstar"23:30 - “When It Hurts So Bad”25:50 - "I Used to Love Him (feat. Mary J. Blige)"33:00 - Hitting a Nerve with Humanity37:20 - "Every Ghetto, Every City"40:20 - "Nothing Even Matters"42:50 - "Everything Is Everything"45:10 - "The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill"47:30 - "Can't Take My Eyes Off of You - (I Love You Baby)"52:35 - Desert Island Tracks + Apex Moments1:01:50 - Up Next

Hey, Adam. Peter Martin. I am so excited about the album we're covering today. Man, I am super excited. Thing is, I don't know what it is. Oh, you don't? No, I don't know what we're doing. Well, this is cool.

This is going to be right in your wheelhouse. I think it came out right when you were sort of coming of age. We're talking late 90s. We're talking early 2000s. We're talking Y2K. Buddy, this is in my wheelhouse. I did have frosted tips. Okay, great.

Actually, I'll just play you a little. You're going to know what this is. Oh, yeah, Dr. Dray's Chronic 2001. That's a classic. Oh, you're talking about it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Still Dre.

Yeah, yeah. The DRE. That doesn't get any better. Allow me to educate you. Miseducate me, as it were. Explore it brought to you today by OpenSudio. Go to OpenStiojazz.com. Your jazz lesson needs...

Right now. Well, yeah, right now. Go there right now. Pause this. And then go to Open StudioJazz.com. Finish this? Okay, finish this. But then promise to go afterwards.

Right there. Where there is no... Miseducation. There is only education. Right. But today on the show, there's plenty of miseducation because we are listening to

The Miseducation of Lauren Hill by Lauren Hill. Yes. The rare album title that includes the name of the artist as well. It's Lauren Hill's Miseducation of Lauren Hill. I dig it. I really like it. This was released August 25th, 1998.

This is... Summer of 98. Summer of 98. Just, I mean... Summer of shove. Picture it. Yeah. The Truman Show.

Yeah. People are just... starting to get a little scared about the Y2K, but it's not really dominating our radar, yeah. No, I love 98. I was a young man, I was but 19 years old when this album came out, and it was a huge

one for me. This was just like everywhere, everyone my age, and probably many ages, was into the cell. Yeah, younger and older. It's one of the best-selling albums of the 90s. I didn't, yeah, it's one of the best selling albums of all time. Yeah. Yeah, it's a Grammy winner and it propelled Lauren Hill

to legit superstar status and it's the only studio album that she's ever made as a solo artist which is nuts like she hasn't done anything since and it's crazy because it's so huge right but I mean we gotta remember she was already huge with the Fuji Fugis Fugis what did I say? What did you say Fugis? So you're referring to the Fugis this is from the score

I feel like this was this was on the radio MTV movies everything for like, I feel like a year, if not long. Was it 96? Yeah. 97. The score of 96, yeah.

I mean, this was just like... Let me tell you something. As a high schooler, when this song came out, whose main attractive quality was to be a musician, this was big for me. That's right. Because you were like, that's actually Roberta Flack song. No.

No, no, no, Peter, because the song is about falling in love with a musician. And I was like, I don't know. cool, right? Yeah. How'd that work for you. It kind of worked well. But that was, that might have been... But I mean, that...

That sounded the Fugis... Why do you keep saying Fugis? The Fudis? Fudis. Fugis. We're... Fugis. The Refugee All-Stars. The Fugis. Like, that was such...

Like, that was kind of... Like, if you had to name the sound of the mid-to-late 90s, right? Yeah. Like, in pop music. Like, you could name some other things, but this, would be, you'd be right.

You know, so, I mean, that's like Lauren Hill even before her solo record with the records with the Fugis. I'm just going to call it that from now. I'm so sorry, Wycliffe. I'm so, so sorry. This wasn't, though, for a lot of people, their first introduction to Lauren Hill.

What do you know about this? Deep cut. Deep cut. I sing, and I sing. because she's singing with Tanya Blunt this is from Sister Act 2

which is he OO fairly successful sequel All Things Considered and Lauren Hill had a big part in Sister Act 2 and that was my first introduction to Lauren Hill because as you know I'm a huge Whoopi Goldberg fan and so I've seen everything

Whoopi's ever done. Love you Whoopi! Ghost is amazing Shout out. Jump and Jack Flash. Shout out. But yeah that's from Sister Act 2 A lot of people discovered Lauren Hill Lauren Hill had done some acting leading up to being a musician. She was kind of a teen actor. She was, but always with music and singing there, including in this movie.

And so this album came off of, like, this is not too far after the score was a big hit. She had a lot of heat going into 97 when she started to record this. She used a ton of musicians to make this album to help produce. And can we just go right back? I was just remember, yeah, the order of it. from the score, killing me softly, of course, which was the biggest hit of 1996.

Incredible version. The Roberta Flack version is one when we've listened to before on this show and we, of course, listen to the Fuji's version. And that kind of was a little bit of a resurgence for Roberta Flack. People were like, wait, what was that song? Like, all the people remember.

But then ready or not, remember that? That was almost bigger. You know, great song. That was great. That was a big one. Again, dominating. I mean, just that's the sound. Yeah.

You know what I mean? Really became just so influential. Sorry. No, it's all good. So she's got a lot of heat going in 1997 when she starts to make her solo album. And we'll talk about all the people on this album and then maybe some of the controversy

around some of that later that came out. But let's get into the miseducation. Yeah. This, like a lot of great albums, especially hip-hop albums from the 90s, has some sound design, some sketches, some things that happen. Yeah.

And I love this. This is about... It's a concept album about getting educated about love, essentially. And it starts in a classroom. I never learned anything about love in a classroom, by the way. Well, the score hadn't come out when you were in high school. Please respond when I call your name. Cole.

I'm McHiles, Jaris Boykin. Jersey. Alicia Simmons. Philip Valdez, Gabriel Salado, I'm Latoya Bradbury. Yeah. And Tom Mitchell. Yeah.

Shekwan Sutton, Lori Thomas, Tyran Lewis, here, Camille, Caldwell, Topeka Marshall, Lauren Hill. Her name kind of stuck out. One of the great transitions ever is from that brief roll call to the first song, Lost Once. One of the great opening tracks ever.

It's funny how money change your situation. Miscommunication lead the complication. My emancipation don't fit your equation. I was on the humble you on every station. Someone play young Lauren like she done. But remember not to game, the one under the sun. Everything you did has already been done. I know all the tricks from bricks.

From Brickson, Don Major, King Don Juan Rock. Now understand El Boogie, not violent. But different things test me, run for me kind. It's pretty far away from Carta. Albany's way since creation. A group we call you far from temptation. Now you want to follow for separation. It's pretty far away from his eyes on the sparrow

that we heard in Sister Act too. And it's also like, you know, at first it's kind of like the Fugis. But then you're like, wait, it's only Lauren's voice in terms, but she's not singing at first. Which is going to beg the question, like, is this a hip-hop album? Is this a rap album? Is this an R&B album? Is this a soul album?

is this kind of a rock folk album folded in there as well. It's kind of all those things, man. It's got a lot going for it. It's got a lot of different flavors on it. There's a lot of rapping before they're singing, though. There is. Which is obviously intentional. Luckily, she's pretty awesome at all of it.

Yeah. And the crazy thing about this is, if my sources are correct, if my notes are correct, full disclosure, we are not music journalists. We're music appreciators, music lovers, and music players. You know, you say that every single episode, and I'm going to start pushing back. because I'm going to Mizzou Night School from a music journalism degree.

Shout up Mizzou. Pretty soon that's not going to be. True, go tigers. It's not true yet. No, so this is, I believe, the second or third best-selling rap. If you consider this a rap,

what does that mean? An album that has a lot of rap on it. Why you got to say rap like that? Hip-hop. Because I don't know, I mean, what does that mean? I don't want to be that guy, you know? But I'm saying, this is not like there's an occasional, like, she goes to some,

non-sson. I mean, like, she is rapping on this. That's a big part of what this is. And it's been classified as this. Number two, only behind Eminem, who had some big records. So, like, above Dr. Dre, Snoop. Yeah, but here's the thing. Here's why this is so special. And here's why Lauren Hill's so special. Like Eminem, amazing, obviously. Can't do this. He can do that part. Yo, yo. He's great at that. This is the second track, X Factor.

We could all be so simple. But you rather make it hard. Yeah. That's got to be. The timpony. The timpani. That's a very weird thing to program in. I love it.

When singing. Her counterpoint vocals, so good. I'm not sure which musicians are on each individual track, except for a couple of exceptions, but yeah, likely James Poyser. Every time there's some hip keyboards play, it's joint. It's got to be James. It's got to be James Poyser, right? You can tell.

That timpani, that's a very unusual instrument you use. It's funny. I am a sucker for all things. orchestral instruments used in these kinds of samples. Like everything from Chronic 2001 like that. Right. You know, same era. Man, her voice is so beautiful.

Her vocal stylings are so... Oh. But then her spoken word stuff is so cool and authentic and not like... It holds up so well. What are you doing? We're going to stop it there because that's coming up on my apex moment for a little bit later. Okay.

So we're just going to hold tight there. So that's X Factor. That's the second track on the album. More sketches after this where the teacher discusses love with the kids. They're like interludes at the end of the tracks going in. The end of the tracks, which are so good. Third track is a song written to Lauren's young son, Zion. and this feature is

Carlos Santana which is going to play out here in another year after this album One day I'm going to understand Carlos Carlos Santana's Man that's bad dude

Idris Muhavid sample We talked about in our discussion with the one song Ladd's this is from that Lou Donaldson track Yeah Idris Mohamed of course One of the greatest drummers ever come out of New Orleans Or anywhere

and with that snare drum, that march, one of the most sampled hip-hop. Can we just listen to that as the beat drops one more time on this? I'm sure. Because this is what, I think this has been sampled so much. I think this is the best placement of it, though.

I mean, you got Carlos Santana set it up. That's really, and Lauren Hill's like. And everything that's, we, around it, all the production around the sample. That blue is. What's crazy about this is, it's basically Santana. just flowing through the whole thing.

He never stopped solo. Never stopped. And there's two of them. And there's two of them. I wonder if they just, like, gave him a couple takes and used to all. I'm sure. I'm sure. For what the balance held, I touch my belly overwhelmed by what I had been chosen to perform.

Oh, which is down that alto range? But then an angel came one day told me to nail down and pray. For unto me a man to shower. She would be this crazy circumstance. I knew his life deserved a chance. But everybody told me to be smart. Look at your career, they say. Well, she's real low in her range here because she's about to take it up.

Oh, she's so great. All right. The way she holds without brabado. For sure. But then, what are you doing? And Adrease, the Adrease Muhammad sample keeps going. Santana never stops. Yeah. And the way they have it mixed with the two santanas,

there's one is sublimated, and one is out front, and the way they, that conversation, and then Lauren Hill's conversation with her own vocal counterpoint. Yeah. And her ability to,

I don't even want to try to imitate it, but basically the vibrato is when, or you can do it, you can sing it, but you start with a note without vibrato, and then you hold, then you go into some long vibrato. Well,

we don't like to think about it like that as vocalist, Peter, which, as you know, I'm very serious. Is there better terminology for it than that? La. Yeah, that's it. Exactly.

Thank you very much. But it's fun for you guys. Yeah, you don't have to be a vocalist. He's not. No, he is. But like when you hear somebody like Lauren Hill, it's very easy to be like, oh, she's such a gifted singer.

Duh, newsflash. But like the different levers that she has to pull vocally where you connect the voice with the artistry. Like, what is that about? We talk about that on piano, on keys, on bass, on drums, on anything.

But for a vocalist, their instrument is, their voice, but to have that kind of control to make that decision, not just as sort of vocal pyrotechnics, although, you know, she's got a lot of that too, but to be able to connect that with the artistry of telling the story, coming out of that lower register, the alto and going up, I guess it's still kind of alto, but getting up maybe a little bit beginning of. Yeah, like the messa-soprano thing. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, she was 22 years old when she started working on this album, and she was pregnant with Zion, and she started. Zion is the son of Rowan Marley and the grandson of Bob Marley.

That's right. So a little bit of music royalty there. And the song is about motherhood and the spiritual transformation pressures to choose her career over motherhood, which by the way, like this album, a lot of this album, it's about love, of course, and about heartbreak in certain points

and about falling in love and about the complications of trying to be in a relationship with someone. There was some sticky wickets. There's a lot of dirtiness going on as far as just like how relationships between people are messy. sometimes, but I think that it's... Dudes, dudes mess up everything. Yeah, I love...

One of the things I love about this album is how much he talks about the process of being an artist and, like, the process of being a human than an artist at the same time. Yeah. There's pressures, and there's lots of choices to be made along the road of creating art, and especially when you get to the level that she's at at this point in her life, where she's one of the biggest stars in the world. She's 22 years old, which is so crazy to hear, you know.

But I'm remembering, like, to think about, because the maturity of her voice and her vocal stylings, like, that's the thing. I mean, there've been plenty of great singers at 22 and 16 and 9 or whatever. And, like, we talk about a Stevie Wonder or somebody that comes up and is doing just genius vocal stuff well below before the stage. But also, but she's in that range, though. You know what I mean? Like her, the maturity of her voice when you hear, it's not that somebody can be a great musician or sing great when they're 22, but to kind of have that, that, that, sort of almost elder statesman at the same time approach to how the storytelling is coming across. Oh, man.

The songwriting is incredible. The production is... Which she did most well. If you think about, if you really break this down, and I know that there's going to be... We can talk about some of the detractors that have since come out of the woodwork since then, and people saying, well, she hasn't done anything else since this or whatever. But, like, what she's doing here is, like, think about all the tools she's bringing, the skill set she's bringing, right?

So the rapping and the singing, the songwriting and the producing. She's also insanely stylish. She looks like a movie star. I mean, it's like Miles Davis level of cool. Yeah. Accompanying all this. And she's 22 years old as she's doing this. And a new mom.

Yeah. It's crazy. Like, this is like... And she'd already been in like the Fuji since she was in high school. I know. You know? It's nuts. And also, too, I believe that...

I hope I'm not speaking out of turn. I'm not a journalist yet. But for Zion, like that she was pregnant with a... That was her first born, I believe. I believe so. And she credits that pregnancy and him with getting her out of some writers block on this album before that, which is interesting. She definitely got through that. So next, I mean, this is, so first of all, just the first three songs.

Yeah. Unbelievable. Lost One's X Factor, Zion. And then comes a huge hit. Yeah, this was the biggest one on here. Or was the first biggest hit on here. This is such a fun song. This is such a great video, too.

How do you connect duwob, rap? What a hook here, is your hand a look? Yeah, the grass is killing. There's some good strings on this. Can I just say that I did so many studio sessions in the 2000s? Yeah. Where they just wanted me to... Yeah, yeah, exactly.

I had to do this so much. Right. Like you wasn't down Thanks Lauren And you know what The way she rap I remember when she was doing this Even with the foodies

Before this Hoogis Um Stif you're listening The Fugettes You're a big fan Um Like

She rapped in a way That was not Like a lot of the female rappers At this time This is not like that kind of MC light Salt and Pepper Who were great

I mean like that was the Without them There is no There will be no salt and pepper slander on this podcast, Peter. I love that. But like it would have been easy for her to fall. This is more like Ice Cube, you know, Biggie. Well, I guess it's a little before.

No, no, Biggie, yeah. I mean, she was like, but her own way of doing it, too. Like, she was very, very much, like, had her own approach. But it was not sort of like I'm a typical female rapper. I think she sounds great. You have to unpeel the rapper to see the artist. There you go. Next up is Superstar.

Yeah. Yo, hip hop. Start it out. Not everybody trying to charge. Say what, hip hop, thought it out in the heart, yo. Now, baby, come on. Baby, come on. Oh, baby, lie, my fire.

Okay, so now, how far behind is she on that? That's already that. Everybody's like, oh, that was boo-doo is what. Music is supposed to inspire. Oh, man, she's laying back. How come we ain't getting no high. This is no higher. Now tell me your philosophy what an artist should be.

This is what I'm saying. This commentary on how music is made, how art should be made. I love this. This is one of my favorite subjects that happens throughout this album. That's a hack right there. You want some little mystical touches on your album? Hell yeah. You throw a harp on that.

Ethereal. Put a harp on it. Not nocturnal. Dreamy. Yeah, dreamy. Curly Gates, little Perligate. A little Perley Gates, a little death? Yeah.

More of that later. Oh, yeah. Whole Hales, yeah. Then we got, we have a couple, final hour. Ooh, we got to play a little bit. There's so many tracks on this album, Peter. We can't play everything. Final hour is great.

We've got to play just a little bit of when it hurts so bad. We're going to see if Columbia Records, unless is playing any of it. For that matter. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. When it hurts so bad. Oh, this has a little bit great break.

We got to get to a great job of this. Can I just say what else is on this album? There's so many examples. There are so many examples. She uses the two chord. Oh. The two chord is all over. Don't stop listening now.

It's going to sound good. So, right? So we're hearing the key of C when it hurts a better, A minor. Yeah. Right? She does like a two. In this case, it goes up into three, but there are a lot of tracks. It goes down to the one.

Yeah. But that's almost like going, like, that's the temporary one going up to the two. Like, the three is almost like, the two, you know. I admit, I must have ripped that off a bunch of times in songwriting as well. Oh, good. Okay, sorry. Back to it. What are you doing? We got to get to at least the breakdown. It's like a minute in. We got to talk about Jamaica, too. Because the musicians on here, the vibe. The Caribbean is in the house. Yeah, there's all sorts of things. Here we go.

All of the improvisations happen around in the vocal. It's so good. at that. Okay, now we're about to add some royalty of the situation. So, hello. We're about to add

one of the queens to the cocktail. Yeah. Mary J. Blige. Now I don't. I love the song so much. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. All of the, man, the bass lines, all of the core changes on this whole album are so epic. Yeah. They're like,

evoke something. Truly special. Mary J. Blige, only a couple years out, just a few years later. Oh, hello. You know what I mean? It's peak Mary J. right there. Okay, so we alluded to, we alluded to, I mean, a lot of this record was recorded in Jamaica

was tracked down there in Kingston and the rich musical tradition there, the beats, the drops, the way the drums played, the way the bass is played, the way that snare drum is. Lauren Hill said that she, quote, wanted to write songs that lyrically,

sorry, I'm not a journalist, quote, write songs that lyrically move me and have the integrity of reggae and the knock of hip-hop and the instrumentation of classic soul. And then, you know,

she talked about later on, this might get into a little bit of a nebulous, historically, historically nebulous area, that there was pressure from the label that this be a very much, I mean, you know, Prince was still, like, basically that they were going to set things up

like she was a female prince, as in the artist's prints, and that like she's producing everything, she's writing everything, that it was listed at that, that that was, part of the schick of part of the lore of the album. Interesting.

And she said that was a difficult position kind of that it put her in. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which I believe led to this whole situation with some of the other, what was it called, the Newark production folks, Veda Nobles, Rashim Poo and Jihari and Ted Jhaharie and Ted Sarram messing up to Jemel Newton.

Their credit on the album for additional music contributions, lyrical contribution, additional production, But they claimed that they were the primary. Songwriters on Everything is Everything. Nothing even matters, maybe a couple other tracks. Lauren Hill credited as the album's writer, producer, Ranger, and performer only in a very Prince-like way. In a very Prince-like way.

So where do you fall down on that, sir? Well, I mean, listen, is that would that, if it were true, would that be anything new in the history of music? Exactly. I mean, did Duke Ellington, Miles Davis, not do similar things? Right. And do they get a bunch of things? I mean, you know what I'm saying?

So, you know, it is what it is. And of course, there's like then the famous a couple years ago, Robert Glassboro on a morning show, I forget where it was, or even if it wasn't morning show. But talks about how he has friends who didn't get credited on this album

for making some of the music. Yeah, I mean, stealing versus influences versus borrowing versus you don't even know that you're playing something that you heard. Getting paid, what you should get paid. I mean, this is something that we can talk about forever with a lot of albums. you know, I don't know much about that part of it.

Yeah. But that kind of stuff for me, it's interesting because, like, that never really taints the music for me, ever. I mean, it's Lauren is all over this record, whether or not they were additional music credits or songwriting. Like, that's sort of a gray area. I see a list of musicians this long. Right.

On any album, I'm assuming there's a lot of collaborations, a lot of late nights, a lot of suggestions. And I'm also assuming there's more musicians that didn't make it on that list for whatever reason. You know what I mean? Assuming that people did more than they got credit for. I mean, how many albums have you been on, Peter, where you did a lot more than you maybe got...

I was on this one, and I'm hoping this episode will get me paid for it finally. No, but just to... Not that you shouldn't call that out when it happens or whatever. But to me, it doesn't like the experience of listening to the music. I enjoy every artist that is... Well, she wasn't trying to hide... I mean, she got a lot of people listed on there. It's not like, you know...

And the Newark folks were listed. It was just how they were. And in any case, the suit was settled out of court in 2001. as these things often are, with sampling, with interpolation, with production versus songwriting. I mean, the record made a pile of money. Like, this is one of the biggest records of the night. I mean, it's crazy.

20 million albums or something like that? More than 20 million, I think. And which begs the question, I want to say, like, this gets into that territory of, like, mega records. I think the timing up, it helps a little bit. Still in the CD era, by the way. So it was, like, all profit. Exactly.

$22 for a CD. Back in 98. $16. maybe if you like that already brought down the cost you know to like 30 cents or whatever cost to make this. Could you imagine paying $16 per album right now? I know it's crazy. For everything you listen to.

Yeah, remember that? Yeah. I do. I buy albums like $28 now. LPs. But that's not all you listen to. No. So I'm saying, man. No, we pay $28 a month instead. We're happy about that. We make 28 cents a year. That's right. But no, let's talk about this. Why is this? And as I'm

listening to it now, I think I'm finally kind of trying to figure it out. But this record like why did it become so big this is a great record we're digging it it was kind of in our era of you know in our wheelhouse also but like why did this whenever you get above really five million

I would say but definitely 10 million like you're into serious crossover you're talking about serious international like you know like you're mass market you're McDonald's on a certain level not to say that to take anything away from the artistry but I'm like you've hit a nerve with humanity when you can like

what was it about this you think I think, so first of all, I think some of the production on this album really helps Lauren's cause for appealing to a mass audience. You know, we just did our thriller episode and Michael Jackson and Quincy... How'd that record do, by the way? It did, okay. Michael Jackson and Quincy Jones were very meticulous and very intentional about making an album that would, like, play on rock radio, play on pop radio, that would play on R&B radio, that would be, that had Paul McCartney, you know, like, in order to, like, break out of just, quote, unquote, urban. radio at the time that they felt

that Michael was stuck in. And this, I don't know if it was as intentional, but, you know, think about how many acoustic guitars we've already heard on this album. And this is very much like in the Fuji's tradition as well. So think about how many like nylon strings, not just Carlos Santana, but a lot of these songs, or acoustic

piano and the chord progressions. We've already talked about like there's these like really beautiful ethereal, powerful chord progressions, and I know I'm saying this is a harmony dork. Yeah. And it may not have a lot of weight. But I do think that these are very, you know, palatable melodies, familiar chord progressions, and the production and instrumentation is not like,

it's not like a Wu-Tang Clan album, right? Where you're just going to get like very raw samples of repetition and then like very raw rhymes on top of that. Yeah. She is talking about some very personal things, talking about, singing. about motherhood. There's this mix of rapping and singing. Yeah. And she's doing it all. She's amazing at both those things.

You know what I'm saying? I know, but you just wouldn't think that would be a, well, I mean, like, there's not, like some of these other big albums, you can see where it's really, like, this is. But again, not this, and not to play this up too much,

but part of the reason. I mean, you're right, the proof is of the sale. She is gorgeous, too. Like, these videos, she looks, you know, when she's doing the duop thing and she looks like the 60s, I mean, she looks incredible. There's like, she's a pop.

star at that point. Yeah. There's, she's just as, as marketable as anybody because of all of these things together. She just happens to have the soul of, uh, of an underground musician. Right. Underneath it all. And that's what she's kind of singing about throughout this album, which is really interesting. I think that the, uh, the lead up with those, those huge hit with the Fugis before this,

you know, um, the Roberta Flack and the Ready or Not and like those being such massive. And wasn't one of them in like a movie or something that was big? Well, there's the conspiracy theory movie, which we'll talk about later. Okay, sorry. I might jump the gun. My bad. You have a conspiracy theory about this podcast? I do.

Well, there was. There was. No, but I mean, those were, like that kind of, to the mass market introduced her voice and that sound. Because she has such a unique voice. Oh, you're killing me softly? Yeah. Oh, yeah, 100%. And ready or not.

And ready or not? 100%. I'm saying, like, so those hits were so big. Yeah. Right? And so by the time this record came around, like, we were. prepped mass market a little bit was prepped for her sound and her vibe and then like she delivered on this record that is kind of unusual to be a you know multi platinum diamond or whatever this is

think about this peter even killing me softly from the score right which is like this massive hit biggest hit of 96 right yeah that is a easy listening hit from the 70s yeah you know and that's what the fujis chose to release as one of their singles like that is again very palatable And I don't know if that was intentional, but like, that's something... On the thermometer, where would you put just that track? That's a one. That's a one on the track. You know what I'm saying?

So I think... Again, I don't know how intentional this was for Lauren Hill or if it's just her personality. We don't know because this is the only thing she's ever done. Where is MTV live on plug. Where she sings all these songs, yeah. But that's what I'm saying. It's like this is like the most original collection of body of work that she has.

And so all we know is this. It's the only fossil we have from the story. I mean, for people that want to be like, that's the only thing she's done. Okay, when you come with a... When you come with a banger like this? I mean, sure, we'd love to have some more. Let's put a pin in that because I have more than that.

We're going to skip over, forgive them, Father. Forgive us, Father. What are you doing? And we're going to go to every ghetto, every city. Oh, this is a banger. Hell yeah. Stevie Wonder vibes? They totally, but I'm here for it.

I'm living for this. A little living for the minor and a major. Fabbinette. Flavinette, yeah. Base space is killing. Made sure that I never go too far. Man, some of the best drum programming on this record. My days in the New Jerusalem.

Story starts in Hooloville. Who up next to Ivy Hill when kids were stealing Corderville for fun. Man who's rhythm? Shut up mangus. Man who is this on bass on here? We don't know, right? Because she didn't put it. Killing it.

Make me recall my days in the New Jerusalem. You know it's hot, don't forget what you got. Stevie Wonder fingerprints on. Oh, not that low sea on the... Ooh. Two down two. You like that? Two down two.

You like that? Oh, the drum brakes. Saturday morning cartoons ain't come food. A-da! Man, how greater nostalgia tracks? I love it. But this is like, man, this flow into what, I guess it's already being called Neo-Soul at this point. Yeah, of course.

It's like, because there's more like, like, like, And that's not necessarily rap, I mean, because she's singing, but like spoken word and like that flow between that. But then with the nostalgia thing, program drums, which normally I'd be like, oh, that's, man, the program, the drums on here are just killing. Like the sounds, the drops, like the beats, obviously. But also like when to pull it out, like, you know, oh, man, that's such a big part of it. This is in the breaks. Yeah, this is in a list song, a nostalgia list song in the grand tradition of Sir Duke. of Stevie Wonder, Sir Duke,

where she's like listing all the stuff she likes. She's riding on a mongoose. Yeah, I used to love the mongoose. I hurt myself on a mongoose at an unmentionable place one time in the 70s. I heard my mon goose once, don't know. But also, it's a list song about things she loved about Stevie Wonder. Apparently, she listened to a lot of Stevie Wonder.

Marvin Gay, what's going on? She used to listen to that on repeat on her. We should do a show on Marvin Gay's what's going on. That's a good record. That's a good record. That's a good record. That's some Stevie Wonder. Have we've done Stevie Wonder yet?

We love Stevie. Something from the 70s. early 70s would be nice. You know what? You're joking about the 70s, but now this is... How many albums have we done this season? Yeah.

Between, like, 95 and 2005? I know. At least two. Well, and then we got to talk about DiAngelo, voodoo, and even brown sugar before this. It's coming, y'all.

Our brown sugar episode is coming. Yeah, so this is like 95, 96, something like that. So before, but this is like Fuji's prime time. I'm going to save it for the brown sugar. But I only play that because this is coming up next. Yeah.

The feature on this album of DeAngelo. Yeah. I think that's DeAngelo. I should be small. Even matters at all. See nothing even matters at all. Nothing even matters at all. Nothing even matter.

Nothing even matters at all. Your love make me from 10 feet tall. Man, I love this. I love this track. But, like, the intro to me is, like, the most interesting musical part of this whole thing. The rest of it's cool. They're, like, vibe in.

I mean, of course, DeAngelo and Lauren Hill, like, their voices are so beautiful and distinctive on their own and coming together. It's, like, stylistically, it's, like, no problem. But in that intro, there's just, like, so much cool stuff musically i feel like they're kind of just riding after that but in a awesome way it's a beautiful ride after that for sure so technically there's only two tracks left on this album peter and wow there there are two hits left is that including the uh no oh yes the unmentionable hit

it is but first it's this hit which features a very young artist and i'll see if you can guess who it is oh maybe you know yeah well i got it might notice i didn't know at the time I mean, nobody knew. Nobody knew who it was. What do you call that piano coming? That sound. That's a killer. Not the left-hand piano.

It sounds like an upright. A great video where, like, the city was on a turntable on an album. Man, the rhythm of the scrap. Oh, stevie-ish melody here, too. Yeah. The major. The major. Lawrence singing.

I'd like, could you just do your own version of everything? That'd be great. So, okay, let's not spoil it. Yeah. Can you guess who was on piano? I'll give you a hint. He's quite a legend. Oh, sorry.

Oh, was that too on the nose? Also a John. A John Legend. So a very young John Legend. I was looking for credit. He loves the piano. I was looking for credits for John Legend around this time. This was the first thing he ever did.

Was it? That was that I could find that he's credited on. He was not known. John, now he's a legend. He's John Legend. Was this still in his University of Pennsylvania? University of Penn grad. Couldn't have been that far out.

Shout out the nerd dogs. The nerd dogs. The nerd dogs. The album officially ends with the title track. How's that for some nostalgia for you? That sounds like a head shake. It's totally. famously that the LP

the whole song never leaves this title track my friend it is the title track my friend the way the way she goes down to the bottom of her range is so stevie-esque and every time i've tried to be what someone else thought of me so caught up i was a name able to achieve I mean her biggest, I don't know how I've missed this.

Her biggest vocal influence, I think, is Stevie Wonder, just vocally. 100%. Yeah. You just getting... Sorry. Well, I know that was, she was influenced, obviously, but... There's that one run she does a lot. So much. Yeah. Especially, well, I was going to say, especially on this album, only on this album, famously.

Is this your favorite album, Lauren Hill? It's my favorite Lauren Hillam. Apex album. But it's definitely a Stevie Wonder thing. It's definitely like a Stevie Wonder influence. What an influential song. Dude. We got to cover him. Do you remember anybody who's 25...

I love it when he gets that little glean in his eye, little young Adam. Do you remember? No. Yes, yes. Maybe. Hidden tracks. Of course. Hidden tracks.

Of course. Hidden tracks. Yeah, the lore of them. Remember the lore? And it'd be like, wait, why isn't it all my copy? This was kind of late on the hidden track game. A little bit. Because during the CD era, specifically, there were a lot of hidden tracks.

and you would listen to the last track of a song and you would let it play. Because you don't know what's poppy on. Because you don't know what it's about. Because you could physically see. If you could fast forward, sometimes you could hold down the forward and you could fast forward.

Because it wouldn't have a separate track number. No. It would be... It would be connected to the last track and it would be almost like how Marvel does those cut scenes at the end of the Marvel movies where it's like you stay... You don't stay after the credits,

but... I don't see Marvel movies. You're uncultured. But you stay after the credits and there's a cut scene that's sort of like a teaser for the next movie that's about to happen.

There were a lot of hidden tracks. Now, Lauren made a cover song of Can't Take My Eyes Off You. Made famous by Frankie Valley and the Four Seasons. Kill it. This is just on Frankie Valley. The range of the bed starting off like that. You're just too good to be true. Chokes a little.

You can't take my eyes off of you. You put vibes on records. I don't know. That was a little Motown trick. It's just kind of a Frankie Bally goes Motown top of track, actually. On the nose, Pete. On the nose. We all know that song. Great song. That James James James.

Exactly. Lauren Hill does a cover version of this for the Mel Gibson vehicle conspiracy theory. Do you remember the movie Conspiracy Theory? No, because I'm not a Mel Gibson guy anymore. Okay? Well, no one is, but the movie doesn't really... I do remember the movie, though. Yeah, he was a conspiracy theorist who was obsessed with the crime,

and I think it eventually ended up happening. Right. Typical 90s lore. Anyway, a DJ, like, put that cover on a CD and started playing it. From the soundtrack. From the soundtrack. Yeah. And it took off.

Right. It became a big hit. So. The Lauren Hill version. The Lauren Hill version. But the Frankie Valley version was in the movie two or something? I think so. Yeah.

I think so. And so they had to put it on the album. They put it on it on, because it was. so popular and they put it on as a hidden track. And it's... Because they were playing on the radio. Unbelievable good. It's killing.

I feel like this was the biggest hit off. It wasn't, but for a minute it was. Oh. Check it out. The movie. Mel Gibson. Opening April 15th. Before he goes off the rails.

I can see the future. You're just too good to be true. Can't take my eyes off of you. And this is like kind of the most food. sounding track on here. I mean, this is in the category of when a cover might be better than

we could do a whole episode on that. Frankie Valley didn't write this song, but his version is before this was the most famous version. When it goes to the chorus, it's killing. Yeah, we got a vibe on this one. There are no words that to speak. Is that little rhythm guitar? It would be free, buddy.

I mean, no, that it's real. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Can't take my eyes on. A lot's too B3. I mean, Larry Golding's in here to talk about that one. Yeah. No bass.

Yeah. No base. That's right. Kind of a few Gies. That's high Hammond V3, kind of overdriving. Yeah. Jameson haven't been alive. What would every bass player have done?

Version of the album. Can't take my eyes off. Be like heaven to touch so much. And I thank God I'm alive. I think that to me true can't take my eyes up for you I think that the Hammondree 3

which is all over this album and this track Yeah That to me is part of the Jamaicanness Yeah of this I mean this is like her band And when you see her live band from this time I mean it's set up like a reggae band Yeah

There's B3, there's guitars, there's percussion There's all of these things Shout out James Poyser Even if that wasn't him on there It probably was but on the keys Yeah, shout out. James Poyser, come on the show sometime.

We would love to talk to you. We're huge fans of everything. Is this going to become James Poyser, Greg Phillingame's appreciation club? Should we do it James Poyser Greg Phelang's month? Well, that are not unsung. They're like the glue of modern American music. We're singing as live as we can.

Yeah. I only think Prince was great. What do you know about James Poyser? Come on. He's important, too. Yeah. Cool, man. Well, let's do some categories.

There's one more, there's yet another hidden track after that. Tell him. None of this, the hidden tracks, by the way, don't matter anymore. Because you just see it on your Apple music. Yeah, you can't. Okay, what's your desert island track, Peter? I've got every ghetto, every city. I love it.

Like, I was a little bit torn because, yeah, I mean, I just love, even though there's, like, skinny legs, a pressing curl. It's good. It's so, like, you could say it's reductive of Stevie One. living in the city. It's like a list of his, like it's a list song, but it's also like a list of stuff

that she loved about Stevie Wonder. And you could go be like, oh, that's cheesy. But to me, it just sounds great. She's singing great. She's singing the blues on that with that minor third major. We talk about that all the time.

But I think that that's just, like that's joy. That's a joyful track on here. But everything's good on here. I mean, like there's four other tracks for sure. I could have picked. I'm going to go with Lost Ones,

which is the first official track on the album. Yeah, that's great. When it starts, the first, Oh, yeah. Two seconds. You know, like, oh, this education's on,

we're about to have a great time. That's true. Oh, yeah. I'm strong. You know what I mean? Party has started. And then that beat, that's saying something.

Oh. It's funny how money change your situation. On that first break, like it's coming. I mean, that's a statement. Caribbean right there. Yeah. That's mine.

What's your apex moment? Apex moment. Oh, on Superstar, 301. 301 on Superstar. Yeah. The guitar going to those dominant chords. I love this break. Yeah.

Draft 9. Sharp 9. Yeah. My album sells beat. All I wanted was to sell like 500. Big dominant seven short short. Yeah. It's so gnarly, right?

It's really annoying. And it leads up to it. And then she's singing the counterpoint stuff on top of it. Mine is... This is actually an album full of possible Apex Moment. There's a lot. There's no, like, huge, huge, like, oh, it's all going to this. But there's so many cool little things like that, I think.

Do you mind if we just take a minute on my Apex Moment? I have it queued up right where it is, but it's only... It's only effective if we listen into it. It is the chorus of this, and it takes a minute. Okay. Shake out. But you'd rather make it hard. Whoever thought of that?

It was so weird. Do we need to get a timpani in here? Could you imagine the dude doing it every time? They sampled it. Again. What we talk about. The two chord, right? Yeah.

The two chords is the one. That two minor is all over this album. It's very titanic. The two is the most melancholy chord there is. You might think it's the six, it's the two. Lorna's how to lay back on them. Greatest use of reciprocity in songs, pop music history. possibly? What a great news.

A little tritone sub. There's so many great drum breaks. That's one of my favorite moments in music history, honestly. When they go into that chorus, No matter how it... I mean, it's something that every song I aspire to write, I want to have a moment like that. Would you call that an aha moment?

I would call it a give me chills, a chills moment. Like, it gives me chills even now 25 years later. Let's do it. I'm good, but thank you. It's good. Bespoke play of this title, what do you got? Let me hear yours first, because I forgot to write this one in. So I got one album Goats.

One album Goats. This means, like, great artists and albums that they just made one. So... Yeah, I get it. Thanks for explaining. Do you need more of a definition? So Sex Pistols, made one album. Did they?

Derek and the Domino's. Right. Made one album, Leila. Yeah. Jeff Buckley, made one album because he passed away. Yeah. But, and Lauren Hill's up there. Why did she only make one album? We're not counting MTV live. I mean, it's a live album. One studio album, one album of original music.

Could you imagine the interest if Lauren Hill made a new album today? Yeah. What if she made an album? What if she went in the studio? She made 14 tracks and did it. Someone sends her to Kingston. She does this thing. Yeah. Could you imagine how nuts people would go? Yeah, it would be. I'm not saying I'm not saying

I might be out there you'd be yourself do your thing but man I'm just thinking I'm gonna go really man y'all can laugh at me

in the comments late 90s jams with a Z that's the laziest it's good though it's lazy but it's good it's one of the worst

things I've ever heard is it really it's one of the worst late 90s jams not just one of the worst disposed playlist titles I've ever heard one of the worst things.

No, that's not even the worst one I've ever done. It's not even the worst one you've ever done. How could it be one of the worst? Okay. Quibble bits. What do you got for you? Quibble bits. My bespoke playlist.

No, my only little thing on this would be, like, listening to this, like, the spoken words, like the, what do you call that? The, what do you call that? Like, when she's in the classroom. The interludes, the skits. The interludes. Like, the skits. I love the first one, like that sets it up and then goes into lost ones.

I mean, that's a classic right there. But like some of the other, the later ones, to me are a little bit, like, I want to keep hearing the music. I don't need to keep like... The conversations with the kids about love? It's fine. But I mean, like, there's so much of that in the... There's so many stories within these songs.

And like, she's such a great storyteller with her lyrics and her voice and everything. But this is a quibble. It's not... I like it's super... Peter, anti-children. No, no, no. It's almost like a we've got space on a CD now to do this, you know. But it's fine.

My only quibble of it is this is the only... album of original music. Your biggest fault is that you care too much. Snomometer, what do you got? I'm going one on this one. This has got to be a one, right? It's either a one or a ten, man. It's a two.

But what's it due to a two? Why would you go two instead of one? You think there's a little bit of snobbiness to it? Okay. Maybe. That's hard to argue with 20 million this trip. That's probably the worst numbering I've ever seen in my life. You're right.

You're right. Okay. Usually at this point in the list, we do, is it better than Kind of Blue? But we've got some good suggestions. What did you call it? Kind of Blue? Kind of Blue.

K-O-B. Yeah. And some people say, like, hey, when you all aren't talking about jazz albums, maybe use a different reference because it's weird to compare Thriller to Kind of Blue. And you know what?

We kind of agree. So we thought, wait, wait, I'm going to preempt you. I see where you're going and I see what you're reading. But I'm going to, can I want up you on this? Why don't we make it,

not only that it's a more comparable album, but it has to be within like 10 years of that record. So I'm going to challenge you Because what you have here is good I'll just tell them it's no secret You have better than inner visions I was going to say is it better than inner visions

Yeah and I would say no Okay To that but I think that's not fair Because we're not in the same era I would also say no to that yes We have to be same area It doesn't have to be the same you know genre Where's genre genre?

I'm gonna say better on this one I'm gonna nominate better than voodoo Just to make it a little more challenging That is harder isn't it Hold up I'm gonna say Okay I put my what do you have

No I said no Okay. Interesting. Not hard at all. But very close. Oh, no, I would put that... I don't know. Really?

Okay. All right. There you go. I mean, I love miseducation, but voodoo is... Maybe, too, it's the timing of everything right now, the de angelo-ness of everything. But... When you were in that red velvet hor house listening to voodoo, that was such a particular moment for you, wasn't it? Now, that's the worst thing I've ever heard.

Akutramats, what do you have? I have an eight. I could be talked into a nine because it's so weird. I mean, I know exactly what I got a nine. It's pretty great. Yeah. Yeah, it's pretty great. What do you got from next?

I've got Lauren Hill MTV Live unplugged. Because I think that's a great album. That was in a heavy rotation around that. That was like 2000, 2002, 2003, maybe even because I remember it was CDs before we moved back. I remember, like Kelly's my, Kelly Martin used to listen to that a lot. And it's a fun. I mean, I don't think there's anything on from this on that. It's a bunch of original music.

It's stuff she could have done a record with. She did do that record. I know it wasn't super well. but I think it would be good to listen to up next. I have Dido No Angel. Dido No Angel. I almost went with Macy Gray. I was thinking about albums around this time.

Yeah. From what I like about Dido. I feel like that would have been a, Macy Gray would have been a slight fall off from this. I'm going to be honest. Do you know this Dido album, No Angel? 1999, so a year after this, totally different genre. Yeah.

Dido, a English singer-songwriter. Is it a Dito? It's Dito. And while she made more albums than just No Angel, that definitely was like the biggest one here in the States for sure. Yeah. The only one I can think of. Steve is international.

Buddy, I'm just saying like, we're really basically going off of what were the CDs and my girlfriend at the Times car. Because Miss Education would come out and Dido would go in. And so I feel like for me, they go together very well. I like it. I like it. All right.

What else do we got here? That's about it, man. C-T-A. What does that stand for? Grand Theft? Cran Theft Auto. Wait, that says Adam Voodoo. Yeah, I changed it.

Oh, that was Aaron. Sorry. Sorry, my bad. We'll take that out. We'll take that out. Good. We got anything else? Nope.

All right. Until next time. You'll hear it.