You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - The Secrets Lie In The Triad

Episode Date: May 6, 2024

In this episode, Adam and Peter talk all about how to use the triad melodically to unlock some hip sounding language in your soloing.Unlock your FREE Open Studio trial to become a better player today.Have a question for us? Leave us a SpeakPipeCheckout courses from Adam, Peter and more at Open Studio🎹 Head over to our YouTube channel for a better look 👀.Follow us on Instagram

Hey, Peter, I've noticed something. Every time I sit down at a piano, like, for the first time in the day, I always play the same thing. I always do something like, just, I don't know why. What is it called? I'm not that specific thing. The yips. Isn't that the yip? No, that's a whole other thing.

It's like a handshake. Like a handshake. Yeah, what's up? You're handshaking with the instrument, you know? But it's, do you have the thing that every time you sit down and you do the same thing? Well, I thought I did something like that, but I think I was just hearing you do that. Sometimes I'll do a little fourthy thing or, like, you know, kind of assert my blues presence. You insert your blues presence.

I've heard other musicians, though, our friend Bjorn, he plays the same thing. Do-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d on the cell. Yeah, something like it's a comfort. It's like a comfort food, comfort zone. With the instrument in your hands for the first time. Sometimes I do this. I'm Adam Manus. And I'm Peter Martin.

And you're listening to the You'll Hear a podcast. Music Explored. Explored. Coming to you from Open Studio. Go to Open StudioJaz.com for, Oh, your jazz less than needs and for your free trial. And if you want to explore the number one jazz community online in the world, on the globe. Yeah, tell them more.

Extraterrestrials invited. Yes, yes, yes. The galaxy's finest community come to openstidiojazz.com, especially open studio jazz.com slash pro. Would that be something you might be interested in? Yes, it is. Yes, it would be. Thank you very much. You know what I've noticed?

Sometimes we mention, as do many podcasts and different shows. Do you hear that piano being tuned? I wonder if they hear that. Yeah, they're doing the Bosendorfer today. Yeah, it's nice. Have you noticed, we do something that a number of astute podcasters do, which is name drop some of our friends

like you did in the intro. Yeah. Bjorn. Byron. Why are you going to say now you put his business out on the streets, man? Who knows Bjorn Randheim? Literally everybody knows. Be it out, Cail.

Okay. But this is the thing. He's on billboards. What? Don't get you give him more information about it. Have you noticed when we mentioned them, our friends who claim to always listen to our podcast, never text us and say, oh, thanks for the shout out on the podcast. This will be a good test. Bjorn, if you're listening, give us the text, buddy.

There's 0.0% chance. Bjorn Randheim listens to this podcast. But yet when we see him, he'll be like, oh, I love the pod. You know what's going to happen because we mentioned Bjorn. We're going to get the text from Sean Weil. Why are you putting? Oh, my God. What am I doing?

You don't understand the danger. This is a worldwide podcast. They're both professional performers. Oh, boy, you're encircling them. Let's move on. But just back to our little intro, to our listeners and especially our folks on YouTube, our gala for today, which is the gentleman and ladies agreement. Oh, it's back.

So this podcast is free, but it's not. Because we ask you to make a comment in the YouTube video of the podcast. Your gala today needs to be coming up with a name for the thing that you play when you sit down to the instrument for the first time. Or you get out your cello for the first time. You know, every musician that I know of, they have a thing. When you spend enough time with them, they put the guitar in their hands and they go, and they do the same thing every time. Bidoo, beep, beep, de, bo, squab.

I don't know anybody that does that, but it's like that. It's like that. What could that be? You said a musical handshake. I like that. Yeah. But we can do, our listeners can do better. Give us something that's better to call that than a yip or a handshake.

Yeah. I'll tell you what else is a nice thing that musicians play Peter is triads. How about that segue? All right. Hold up. I want to play something, but I don't want to play it while you're talking because I've been reprimanded. No, no, no. You could go ahead and play.

I've also been reprimanded recently. So yeah, so it's all good. Go ahead, play something. Too wrongs, don't make it right, my friend. I'm gonna leave some space for you. Okay, give us some space. I just want to show an example of a triad. That's a triad.

Now, what you're playing here is a harmonic triad. That's a chord, right? That's not what we're talking about today, Peter. What? We're talking about melodic triads. Oh. Yeah. You often sleep on a melodic triads.

triad. And you're thinking like, well, wait, can you use triads? Sir, I sleep on a birch or Casper bed. Shout out to our new sponsors. Sleep number. Shout out. Well, you know, one time many years ago, pre-marriage, Peter, I met a certain young lady that I wanted to, as we used to say back in the day, get her digits. Okay. And I said, can I get your phone number? We had a little rapport going. I'm not going to lie. Put on a little bit of the PM charm. Played a few chords for her, a little handshake. And I said, can I get you a number?

number. She said, sure, I'll give you her number. And she wrote down, this is pre, you know, cell phones and stuff. I handed her a piece of paper. That's how you used to do it. Beautiful young lady said, here's my number. And it was only two digits, which I thought was perhaps false in terms of being her phone number. Yeah. And then I said, I thought, I was asking for your phone number. She's like, oh, this is my sleep number. Because of sleep number bed. So it worked out. Is what you're saying? No, I just made that up. I thought it was going to be funny when you said sleep number. You really have me going there. You really have me going.

Okay. I don't even... The connotation that that led to, I didn't even mean it to go there. That was just a joke because you said sleep number bad. I concocted a whole story. Your mind is working so far ahead of everybody else's.

No, it's not. Thank goodness he didn't play as you were talking. That would have been egregious. Today, we're talking about... We're talking about sleep numbers. We're talking about musical handshakes. We're talking about little flourishes. But mostly we're talking about triads, Peter.

And these are things that are slept on on a number seven sleep number because they're soft. No, because you might not think as a jazz musician that we're playing a lot of triads, but they're one of the most useful melodic devices you can use to improvise. And I thought we could just talk. Did you say melodic device or pneumonic device? Melodic device that we can use to improvise with. And I thought we could just talk about a few great ways that we can use triads. So when you think of a triad, if we're thinking of like in the key of C, which is where we like to start.

Maybe we put the cordy up. We have to start that low, sir? That's a big open triad. But if we're, if we're saying we're soloing over a C chord, right? Yeah. There's nothing, and I mean nothing. If the C is the tonic, there's nothing wrong with using a triad, a C triad to improvise with that kind of language,

just a regular triad. Yeah. I mean, you know what I mean? ever heard of it. Swinging. Never played a 50-year high school reunion? Yeah, exactly. You better have that one up. But this tries. We just played

on Thursday. We did Amajimal's but not for me left. Yeah. Oh, some great triadic melodic play. But these like triadic moments. So that's what we call a triad plus one. C triad, C triad, C triad, C triad plus one extra note.

All based around the C triad, right? This is from the but not for me. Yep. Right, that C triad plus one extra note. It's an amazing way. So even just the tonic triad. What do you recommend for the extra note? Well, so if you look at what Israel Crosby uses there,

he's just going, he's basically doing one diatonic tone above the triad. So there's your C triad. We call that triad plus one at Open Studio. And it's literally just you can do it. And you can go from anywhere from below, right? What's great about this is you don't, if you know your triads, you don't have to think too much. about what you're doing, right?

You're just adding a note to this. It's an amazing way to get some great melodic content and super strong. I was just looking at like, you know, yeah, you can come from top or bottom. Maybe the directionality of it can kind of... Well, it works for what he's doing. Because of the rhythm to be...

But coming back, like if you were to go up... It sounds amazing. Yeah. It sounds amazing. And then, Peter, we can take that one step further. and Barry Harris talks about using the triad from the fifth. So what if we did the same thing on a G-triot? All in the key of C, right?

So just adding one note to this G-triot. Now the notes of a G-triad, and we're talking about over a C-cord, right? So you've got the fifth, this major seventh, and the ninth. So combined with elements of the scale, so just this, right? That's a triad plus one, G-tri-tri-

plus the A. So we're just working around the G triad. You know, we're thinking about that. Triad plus one. B, D, and G, that's that G triad plus that A. Same Israel-Crossby line from, but not for me. Right? It works so well.

Yeah. And so, like, using this triad, it gives you a very, and it gives your audience a familiar shape that they know, that their ear knows really. well. And so if you want that big, open, airy major sound, that D triad works great. One more triad on a major chord that sounds really good is for Sharp 11 sound. Can I just throw one thing before you on this one? Because I think if you're thinking like this affects the harmony, of course, you know, these are melodic device, a melodic way to use

these triads. But also as you're learning these and thinking about them, don't decouple it from the rhythm, right? So like even like that's what that rhythm is. But a lot of of times the adding one note to the triad, right? Is as much about giving you a shape, a grouping of four as opposed to a group of three, right? Which can be interesting. Yes, it adds, as opposed to... And how you combine those, how you break them up can be really interesting rhythmically as well. Yeah, the triad plus one is so powerful. So if you want to sharp 11 sound, the D triad, and again, just adding one note to that triad. And I'm thinking in the position of the triad, and I'm thinking in the

position of the triad. Right? That's where I'm kind of... No matter what the inversion is? Yeah. Right. So, well, if it's this inversion, this inversion, I'm sticking, like I'm working that inversion. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And using the same plus one in that case, right? Yeah. So let's, now let's talk about the plus one you were asking, but I wanted to delay that a little bit because if you, if we go back to what Israel Crosby plays on the not for me. What are those plus ones? What do they add up to, Peter? if we look at what they are. Well, they're all, so these are all diatonically adjacent.

So each one is different for each inversion. Yeah, but what are the three notes? So he adds. Oh, it's those three. And what is that? D minor triad. The D minor triad. So now we have a triad pair.

So this is where... I've always wanted to know what that meant. Yeah, so now we're using... Wait, so triad pair isn't... It is. It is. That's one way to use a triad pair. It's to literally link up...

But it could be any pair of triads? Yeah. Okay. Cool. That's what I thought. So over the C. major chord, right? Israel C-major triad and notes of a

C-major triad and notes of a D minor triad, so the triad that's just up one. Right. And you can use these... As he moves through each inversion. That's right. And so that's what he's adding here. And it's just a note, a diatonic tone up, so it makes perfect sense, but it is a triad pair, and it's a way that you can

use triad pairs. And because of the rhythm, I think it isn't, some people might be like, oh, well, no, those... That's so-called D-minor triad is more about just being the adjacent notes to the main. It is. It is about that.

No, but because of B, because of the rhythm and the intentionality of how he plays it, yeah, exactly. You hear that. B.D. It's outlining a D minor. Yeah. And that's sort of like the inhale to the C's exhale, right? And it's a very grounded sound. Now, like if he would have picked a D major, that would have been a whole other thing.

Like a, right? Yeah. Makes it a Lydian thing, right? Yeah. a whole other sound. Interesting as well, but just different. Very interesting. Yeah.

So I love this kind of theory started or starting around. No, but it's like the kind of, like theory that explains something in a way that is actually, like, not only do we, you almost could hear it more as a listener. And of course, we're always listeners, we're players, we're theorists, we're doing all this in real time as we play. But in this case, like Amadjamal set up this arrangement and everything. So there was some thought. put into it, but like the theory explains the actual function of how it comes across to the listener, right, as opposed to the other way around. So if you think about like, that would explain that whole thing of like, oh, no, that's not really

because sometimes we can find an explanation to something, but it's like, yeah, but it never actually sounds like that to anyone. So how useful is that? Yeah. This is super useful when you actually, when you break it down to how it's very cleanly sort of explained in the sound of a B, B, B, B, yeah. Like, you could actually sing that, and it makes sense. And we're not saying that this is what Israel C is what Israel C is thinking.

I'm going to use D-C. No, he's probably thinking I'm just going to approach, but this is why the sound resonates so well with us. Yeah. Because it is this. But we're actually explaining something that in reality does resonate clearly. It's not like really dispute about that, I would say. I want to talk about a couple more different kinds of chords and triad options. So if we look at a minor seven chord, right, when you can consider like a C minor seven,

the Dorian sound, a two chord in the key of B flat. again, the tonic triad, don't sleep on the tonic triad. Yeah. And a lot of this are melodic things that Barry Harris would talk about or the triads to use in bebop. But you will hear a ton of folks on a two chord use the tonic triad. You could also use, again, the triad from the fifth.

And in this case, it would be a G minor triad. Why not a G major? because it's a dominant seven. It's a C minor 7 chord, right? What would this be if it's... If we're a major 7, with a major 7? Yeah, you would use a G major.

Okay. By the way, if you're playing a C minor 6 or a C minor major 7, the G major's a great sound. Yeah, that's what I was going to say. And then, of course... Oh, you're saying because... So it has to be C minor 6, 9,

or C minor major 7 to use the G major. If you have that B naturally... I mean, listen, there's no rules to this, but if you have a Dorian sound like, if you have a C minor 7, you know, if you're playing a two, like, right? You can, of course, use the triad from the tonic. More passing note.

Or you could use, don't sleep on the G minor triad. It doesn't give you more that modal sound. It gives you more of a modal sound. You could also use the triad from the seventh. Right? And from the third, the E flat major, right? All of those. The relative major.

Right, the relative major. All of these, the B-flat major triad. Again, using other notes of the triad pair thing, you know, like from C minor. Oh, you're doing C minor and B flat. Oh, right. Right. Or you can do E flat major and do a triad pair from F major. That's the one I like.

Oh, it's beautiful. Yeah, I like that because you got that. Just beautiful. Another chord I want to talk about, and this is going to be the one that we could probably spend the most amount of time on, is the dominole chord. So we got a C-7, say, like if it's a five chord, heading to F, right? We can... Did you just go root position Ronnie on that bad boy? Of course, man.

Root position Ronnie. So, of course, the tonic triad... C major, paired with either D minor or B-flat major. Yep. The B-flat gives a little suss. A little suss vibe, right? Yep. And again, you can think in the actual pair of like...

Or you can use just notes from the B-flat or notes from the C. like to be two or notes for the B-5 to the C. Either one is a great way. You can also... Those are great. You can also just break it up like just two notes

from each of them and go. It's a hexatonic scale in the end. Another one, and this is something that Barry talks about a lot on a C-7 is the triad from the fifth, the G minor. Now this gets us, this is so important,

Peter, this G-minor triad. If you just play a C and an E and you arpeggiate this G-minor triad, all of a sudden you sound a lot, like W. C. Ravel. It sounds like a French person. Dominant ninth much? It is the sound of the ninth, right?

Why is that? It's just that shape. It's so magical that the triad from the fifth, the G minor tried over a C-7. And really, you just need just the C chord. And this gives you the fifth, seventh, and the ninth, and it's just beautiful.

It's a dominant ninth, and yeah, it's very evocative of, you know, you know, there's the end. implication if you slide to the B flat try to get up that sauce, but just that, especially this, Deb you see love the, and I know I'm taking one of the triads away without the fifth, without the G. Have I heard of it? Beautiful. gorgeous. There's four notes.

Another option on a C-7 chord, especially if you have a flat nine, the A major triad. Nice. It's an amazing thing to improvise if you have. Yeah, I love the way you're taking these. using, you know, either root position, like there, I think you had just root 3, 7 of the actual chord. Yeah. And they put that tri-a pair above it. Now, the pair for A major that I like and that is fun to experiment with is actually A minor.

So C-sharp, E-A-C. One-half is A-Mey-Major, one-half as A-Mager. But even if they're next to each other, it's Mel Dauian even. And I call that thing in the... in one of the harmony of Stevie Wonder lessons. I might have been erroneous, and I'm glad you went around to correct me,

but I called that the modified unicorn. Is that okay? Because the unicorn would be that. You call whatever you want. I mean, we're not doing the same time. Look at this note. No choice here. So A major drive,

we're going to work this A major. Yeah. C sharp, down the minor. Yeah. Right? A major, a minor, A major. Nice.

So, If we want more of an altered sound, if we want an altered sound in the C7. Going whole tone. Were you going? A whole tone. For the altar? No, the second half of it,

from the third up to the... What are some triads we can use? Oh, I mean, I meant like an altered triad. Is that we allowed to do that? Like an E-alter triad? Oh, that's augmented. Oh, augmented. Sorry, you can do that. What I call it?

Altum. Right. Like a whole tone thing. Yeah. Sorry, is there an echo in here? Well, that's not... So typically an altered has a flat nine, sharp nine,

and so the whole tone just has a regular natural nine. No, no, but I'm saying starting... You know how like we look at it as start out is diminished, and then we get to the third, then you go whole tone. Right.

Yeah. Yeah, because if you play the diatonic triad... Right? For the altar? Yeah. Well, it depends on where you start. I was going to suggest for the altered, and this is like a typical one.

It's 8-5. and G flat. Oh, okay, yeah. Right, it gets all of the notes of the ultimate scale, except for the... Like, A, flat, G flat. Yeah, A flat major, G flat major.

Yeah. But I like the E augmented as well. Yeah. But you could do E augmented G flat. And E flat minor. Right? B flat minor? Well, yeah.

Yeah. No, but the G flat's better. Let's not play at the same time. So you got E, you got E augmented dry-in and G-flat. Yeah, and either one of those will work. A-flat. major in G-flat or E-augmented,

which is just one-note difference. Yeah. And this, look, like everything, the your mileage may vary is based upon how it sounds to you. I mean, how it sounds in terms of like, maybe kind of traditionally within, say, B-B-B-B-B, you know, you can kind of be like,

oh, yeah, that works or whatever. But some of these things, just a little bit of, like, change, say, between that's from the E-augmented triad to the E-flap minor versus the E-augmented to the G-flab major. Yeah. Or really even, I know you're not supposed to do the E, but it could be fun too. Super fun.

Yeah. So let's talk about one more chord, and this is a little bit of a bonus. Bonus, Jonas. A little surprise. So maybe a C diminished. And you might think, oh, well, I'll just do the C diminished triad. You can actually do a major triad that's even more effective. For C diminished.

Oh, I already know it. What? C. For a C diminished? Yeah. C. C. Oh, I'm sorry.

I'm doing C half hole diminish. Yeah. See, full diminished. Okay, well, then we're just going to go half-step up, my friend. You tell it. Then I'll give you my version. Help, is anyone still listening? B major trial.

This is the classic unicorn, right? We just talked about this. We literally talked about it last week. And he's like, no, you go up in half-steps. I was like reading the comments and people were like, Peter seems so confused about these things. I was adamant this week I wasn't going to be. You know why?

Because I'll be show you mine next, but go ahead. Yours probably sounds better. No, it does. But this C diminished, right? So the C diminished, full diminished, C diminished 7. Yeah. You can base this off of the whole half C diminished scale, which contains within it several major triads.

But the best sounding one for this is that B major triad, and in fact, it's used in tunes. Also, by the way, it's a great dominant chord. Yeah. The C diminished. Self and other chords. That's called a self-dominating chord. Self-diminishing chord.

Self-diminishing court. Don't diminish yourself. You shouldn't write a theory book. No, I should not. No, I should not. But that was great the way you broke it down. And I would like to remind people of something. If you made it this far into the podcast.

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