You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - The Ultimate Jazz For The Masses

Episode Date: October 7, 2024

The chemistry between Ella and Louis on their iconic duo album is palpable but what made that band so swinging? In this episode, we dive into this historic recording. What's Oscar Not Playing?Live at the Hollywood BowlUnlock your FREE Open Studio trial to become a better player today.Looking to drop a question? Want to listen to the audio pod? Look no furtherhttps://youllhearit.com/Have a question for us? Leave us a SpeakPipeCheckout courses from Adam, Peter and more at Open Studio🎹 Head over to our YouTube channel for a better look 👀.Follow us on Instagram

Hey, Peter. So today, we are going to be listening to one of my all-time favorite vocal recordings. It's with two of the greatest jazz musicians in history. In fact, two of the goats, for sure. And this was at a pinnacle for both of them in their careers. Now, it has an interesting twist, because it also contains accompaniment by a rhythm section, containing four masters, including a young master pianist, who is accompanying in a way that is, to put it in a way.

mildly very strange, if not a little bit intrusive. Not that you would know anything about that, Peter, because you are, if nothing, a tasteful accompanist. Peter, today we're listening to Ellen Louie. Did you say something? I'm Adam Manus. And I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to the You'll Hear It Podcast.

Music, Explored. Explored, brought to you today by Open Studio. Go to Open Studiojazz.com. Oh, you jazz less than needs. You've been getting some comments on your I feel that you're recently emboldened with your delivery. I like that. The more people say they like it, the more I'm going to do it.

No, actually, I got some funny comments on some totally un-you-l-hear-related shorts. They were like, take it through, oh, 12 keys. Like they're combining the tag lines. That's right. No, I love it because... You also have a giraffe on your shirt. We're going to talk about that in a minute. I do.

This is an incredible, incredible cardigan that I have. that I'm so stoked on. But have you ever seen the movie Private Parts, Howard Stern's movie? I don't think so. I'm aware of it, though. So there's a great scene early in Stern's career. It's great scene in the movie. And there's a pig face.

Oh, what? Pig Vomit, played by Paul Giumotti. He's like, one of his first film roles. Yes. And he's like, no, it's W. He's like the station manager. He's the station manager. He's trying to get Howard to go, W.A.

Is that what that comes from? They do it so much that it's just been. stuck in my brain since 1996. So, seven. So I'm, that's where that comes from, is from private parts, which is, I think it's an all-timer of a, of a movie comedy. Can't make movies like that anymore. No, no, no, no.

You will be, uh, well, they're just not profitable. Those kind of like, biopic comedies. That's right. It just wouldn't be on the big screen. It would be like a, it'd be a six-part Netflix series. You can't put anything in the theaters anymore, unless it's a sequel or like it has, or is Marvel adjacent. It's so true.

Should we just turn this into the rewind? watchables? Were they talking about that? No, no, no, but it's like, I almost watched it last night, and then I was like, I don't know if I'm going to. The George Clooney, front of the show, we think. Friend of the show, yeah. Friend of jazz, for sure.

Do you still have his number in your phone? I do, but he never calls back, and he seems to have changed his number. Not related to me. But George Clooney and Brad Pitt have a new movie out. Oh, really? And it was supposed to be in the theaters, and at the last minute, Apple, ever heard of him? They pulled it from the theaters. Yeah, they're like, oh, we're going to go straight to Apple TV Plus.

Amazing. Is that amazing, though? No, it's sad. It's weird. It's really sad. I love seeing the movies and the theaters. You can't recreate the picture. There was a time when, I mean, those guys are still huge stars.

And coming together and ever heard of Oceans 11? Yeah, of course. What about Oceans 12? Yeah, exciting thrill rides. Was there one more? 13 perhaps? Yeah, I think there's seven more. This is like Open, you know, Oceans 14 or something with them coming back together.

But it's going to be streaming only, which kind of takes away a little bit. Although the album we're listening to today, and most of these albums that we listened to are not things that we heard in person. So maybe that's kind of like the corollary to how we experience. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like if you see, I mean, I remember seeing Oscar Peterson at the Hollywood Bowl. I actually had a chance to be part of the opening act for him. Are you for real right now? I'm not kidding. Yeah. So, I mean, I have some reference point. And that's not the record working, but we are going to be talking about Hollywood Bowl, Elefis Gerald, Louis Armstrong. There is a backstory. There's a backstory that I just discovered this

morning I'm super excited about. But we think about when you've seen something, and I also saw Ele Fitzgerald live, just a couple blocks from here, as a young boy. Wait, you saw Ella Fitzgerald as a young boy? How was she a young boy? What are you talking about? I was a young boy. Adam, Adam, Center.

Center. Uh-huh, got it. She was an older woman. I mean, yeah, she was probably 70 or late 60. I was going to say this was recorded in 1956, and she's 38 here. This podcast was recorded in 1956? Okay, now you got me. That is, yeah.

Exactly what you did. So, yes, this record was recorded, would you say, 56? 56. The last record we did was recording 56. I know. The cultural context was exactly the same. The number one movie in America was the Ten Commandments. The number one TV show was I Love Lucy.

The president was Ike. Wait, okay. I love Lucy, I feel like was a huge show when I was a little kid. My mom used to watch it, and that wasn't like the mid-70s. Yeah, it was on reruns until just last year, I think. You know what's weird, though, at that time, the 70s and even to the early 80s, I had no reference point for what was a rerun and what was it. I knew the old black and white ones where people were wearing weird clothes was

done. I didn't. For some reason, I was like, if it was coming on, especially stuff that I was really young, like that my parents were watching. There was so much stuff that I saw that I didn't understand and saw my parents laughing at that I was like, what I must have been really little. Yeah. Oh yeah.

But it was all in between. They'd be watching something and then it'd be like Walter Cronkite with, you know, images from Vietnam and stuff blowing up. And it was very jarring as a young lad. Yeah, the only thing that I liked that my parents used to watch that I thought was funny was those Victor Borga specials on PBS. Remember those? Yeah, but that was reruns, sir. Was it reruns?

I think so. They would laugh the hell out of that when you do the... Oh, sorry. Man, your parents were upper crust, man. PBS, were they members? Well, they were crusty, but... Were they members? I think they are members. Yeah, I think so.

What was the other thing? Oh, man, my parents used to watch. What was the thing on PBS? Upstairs, downstairs? Upstairs, downstairs, downstairs. Upstairs, downstairs. And mystery, that was also a good thing. Oh, yeah, my mom still watches that.

She will be at our house having dinner sometimes. And it'll be, it's like 8 o'clock. She's like, I got to go home watching mystery. I'm like, mom, we can stream it here. How many of these marples they got can? I don't know. But we diverge. The TV show was, I love Lucy.

The president was Dwighty Eisenhower. The number one song. America was Don't Be Cruel by Elvis Presley and the number one album was Elvis number two from Elvis Presley. It was just called Elvis, but it was the second full-length album. Okay, that's when you're a star. Yeah. It's Elvis. Cool. Okay. A little background on Ella, Fitzgerald, and Lewis Armstrong. They had performed together, and we're going to get to in a minute how recently they had performed before they recorded this record because it's an amazing thing that I'd for all the years of listening to this record. But they recorded together on deck at like in the late

40s, kind of early 50s, several years before this. But this was kind of their first big hit. It was also one of the first big hits for Verve records, which started in 1956 by Norman Grants, who of course was Ella Fitzgerald's longtime manager and concert impresario as well as Oscar Peterson and Ray Brown, that whole crew there. Yeah, it was incredible. But they made three big records over the next couple of years, Ella and Lewis, Ellen Lewis again, which was like the next year or two years later. And then, of course, Ellen Lewis, Porgy and Bass, which I think is just a stunning

artistic work. I think this record we're listening to today as well. I think I'm a fan. I'm going to lay my cards. This is the one for me. This is the one. This is the one of those three. I would have to say probably, if pressed, I prefer the Porgy and Best. But just because I think of all the versions of that, we should do a listen

off between Ellen Lewis, Porgy and Best versus Miles Davis Porgy and Bass. That's a tough one, man. You know what? We're all winners. Yeah, everybody wins. Everybody wins. But that's a, it's different takes. But anyway, so, yeah, so Ellen Louis Lewis was recorded. They recorded one previous album, as he said, on DACA. Lewis Armstrong made one other album in 1956. And Ella made one other album entitled Ella Sings the Rogers

and Heart song book. Which is a massive, like, multi-LP situation where she basically sang every song site Reddit, you know, like she did on the Cole Porter one. That's right. I mean, she was a genius at that. She was a genius. Yeah. And I think Norman Grants, I don't know a lot. I mean, a lot of it's kind of anecdotal I've heard over the years, but from some kind of direct sources that were around him and stuff during that time, very innovative, huge force in the music in terms of like management and presentation, but very domineering in terms of like, this is what you're

going to sing, this is what you're going to play. But apparently it was all. like especially approved by from what I read by Lewis Armstrong like all the songs on this record were suggested by Norman Grants of course he produced this it was on verb but it was all stuff that Lewis Armstrong's like cool I can sing the phone book which was pretty much the case

yeah both of them but apparently at least Lewis Armstrong he didn't know any of the tunes they were going to do till they got in there and literally learned them as and they recorded this in one day at the venerable Capitol Capitol Capitol Records Studios in Los Angeles right there at

Hollywood Boulevard or is it sunset. Beautiful round. The gorgeous, iconic building. Incredible huge room there. I got a chance to record there twice. It's iconic, beautiful place. Not only was it recorded in one day, Peter. Like, it was recorded quickly, but there was a quick turnaround because it was a

recorded on August 16th, 1956 and released on October. That's like podcast. In October, that's like podcast turnaround. Oh, that's quicker than this podcast. No, it's not. But it's close, though. It's pretty amazing. It's pretty amazing.

They depress up the LP. make the 8 tracks, make the cassettes. That's pretty crazy, actually. The minidiscs. It's a lot of work. You said this is when Verve was launched? I don't think this was the first record, but it was launched. In the first year of Verve.

In 1956. I'm guessing Norman Grants was like, listen, we need to make some money. We've got to fund this operation. We've got two huge stars here. The way this album sounds is magical. We've got to get this out. Because I'm, you know, even stuff we do here at Open Studio, I'm like, we've got to get the JPM out.

Right, I know. I know. Well, and the night before, we're going to talk about that. Let me just read this, this little blurb that I found. I was going to read the liner notes. They're really good. They're kind of long, but this will kind of set the scene

a little bit as to how this came about. I never knew any of this. It's amazing. Listen to this record for so long. I used to have the cassette. Remember the comp, what would it say? Compact It's,

verve compacts with the little thing. Sure. Yeah. The evening before Lewis Armstrong recorded this album, both he and Miss Fitzgerald were appearing in an all-star concert. Also, now a lot of times we say

All-Star concert. This time, it's the correct. Listen to who was there. also featuring Art Tatum and Oscar Peterson that was recorded for an album entitled Live at the Hollywood Bowl, 1956. Never knew about that record. The following day, the two singers,

along with the Oscar Peterson Trio, actually Oscar Peterson Quartet, as it turned out, were in a Los Angeles studio to record this gem of an album. With no time for rehearsals, the songs were all set in Lewis's keys to make it easier. Interesting. So maybe Ella knew him. Just knowing that Ella is a monster

and just going to nail everything. Yeah. Now, there was, oh, it says, you know, to make it easier, but this in no way inhibits Ellis' performance. There were some key changes. Yeah. Like you can hear him shift during the tune, which is great. I think that adds to the vibe. Great way to navigate that.

Another challenge for Pops was the fact that the material was not his normal repertoire, meaning he had to learn things on the fly in the studio. Again, there's no hint of any issues, which all goes to highlight Armstrong's innate musical ability. Yeah, I mean, the, musicality level is Louis Armstrong. So it's going to be... I know.

Yeah, absolutely. But, I mean, one thing when they say Armstrong's innate musical ability, I would agree, but I would also add sets and reps for like the number of tunes by the time. How many songs is he learned at this point? He's 55 years old. Yeah. And be able to navigate different keys. And, you know, of course, it's trumpet playing and everything.

So anyway, that kind of sets the thing. And can we just look at the album cover first for this album? So you guys know what we're talking about. I know. I'm sure you've seen it before. It's very interesting. We're going to go to... I love this cover because look at them.

Super, super iconic. Look at the shadows. In the studio. I love his... The shoes for both of them? I mean, his loafers with the white socks is just great. Color coordination.

On the outfits. Shirt of the summer right there. Right. And yeah, they just looked like they're kind of... That looks like a shirt. You or I might have worn this summer if we could have got our hands on it. I mean, I think I have that exact outfit in my closet,

honestly. Good. But, yeah. I love this cover just because of Their personalities shining through in what's obviously some kind of candid, maybe post-candid shot, but in the studio. In the studio.

You can tell it's in the studio. I mean, I think that's even the capital parquet kind of floors there. I love the folding chairs of a certain era. You know, so cool. But so the night before, they did this incredible concert. We're going to actually do something we don't normally do in here, which is listen to a different record than what the Hollywood if I can find this, Hollywood Bowl Live.

Now, I just became aware of this. Earlier today, Jazz, Hollywood Bowl Live. This is how fresh it is. I am searching for this as we go. Okay, so Jazz at the Hollywood Bowl. This wasn't released for a long time. I mean, it was released. It looks like in 2011, but for whatever reason, it wasn't.

But incredible lineup, and we'll have a link to this below. But check out, this is Norman Grands'. Norman Grands'. Norman Grant's introduction, yes, of the concerts from the night before they made this record, just so you can kind of feel what's happening. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Tonight, jazz comes... Let's look at...

Yeah, there we go. The Hollywood Bowl. Our concert will have two parts. The first part will be the jam session, then Art Tatum, and then Miss Ella Fitzgerald. After the intermission, the second set will include the Oskapetus and Trio, Louis Armstrong and his group. And for a finale, Ms. Fitzgerald and Mr. Armstrong, we'll do some duets.

And as much as improvisation is the heart of jazz, it's fitting that we start off with the most improvised kind of music, the jam session. I'd like to introduce the musicians in the jam session. On the rhythm section we have on drums, Buddy Rich. Just going to be jam session with Buddy Wigg. Our basis is generally considered to be the best bassist in jazz today, Ray Brown. So anyway, he goes on to introduce. I like how he just lays out. generally consider the best bassist in jazz. Bam, thank you very much, Los Angeles.

You're welcome. So, Art Tienham and Oscar Peterson on the same stage. I know. It's crazy. Amazing. So this is really cool just to think they were up doing this. And I love, like, there's a lost art to just laying out what's going to happen in the evening. This is what's going to be happening.

So this album features Ella and Lewis. Ella was 39 years old. Lewis was 55 years old. Yeah. It also features the Oscar Peterson Quartet. Oscar on piano, 31 years old. Oh, a young. Ellis on guitar 35 years old.

Ray Brown, as the baby of the group, 30 years old. And Buddy Rich on drums, 38 years old. And I believe weren't at this time where Ella and Ray together? I don't think they were... Maybe. That's possible. They were married for a time. They had a son Ray Brown, Jr., of course.

Yeah, yeah. Pleasure of meeting. I think that technically at this, like at the concert the night before, they were calling it the Oscar Peterson True because they actually performed on that concert. I mean, I think they did the jam session all of them together. As a trio,

as a trio, Herbell, S. Ray Brown, exactly, Oscar Peterson. Well, let's check out this album. Let's see how it sets up. It starts with, can't we be friends? And this, oh, this is very good. All I'd found a man of my dreams, now it seems, this is how the story ends. He's going to turn me down and say,

Can't we be friends? I thought for once it couldn't go wrong, not for long. I can't see the way this cares. Oh, good frame. Ellis is floating already. It's going to turn me down and say, can't we be friends? Offset. Through with love, through with men, they play their game without shame.

And who's to blame? I thought I'd found a man I could trust. What a bust. This is how the story ends. He's going to turn me down and say, can't we be friends? Yes, I thought I knew the wheat from the chef. What a laugh. This is how the story ends.

I'll let her turn me down, say can't we be friends? But that day I acted like a kid out of school. What a fool. Now I see this is the end. I let her turn me down, say can't we be friends? Should I care? No, she gave me the air. Why should I?

I cry, have a sigh, and wonder why. Ongoing piano solo. Already. I should have seen the single stop. What a flop. This is how the story ends. She's going to turn me down. Safe can with me friends.

Okay, I'm going to pause there just because this may come up as a banger solo what we're about to hear. And I don't want to spoil that. But what are your thoughts so far? I mean, first of all, my thoughts are that the real stars of this show are the, is the engine underneath it. I think Ray Brown, Buddy Rich, and Herbales underneath all of this stuff that's happening,

which is all very beautiful. But that is what is, that's what makes this record to me, is that rhythm section is so swing. I mean, the entire time, both of us, I'm watching ULA. Our legs are like just pounding down on the floor. Yeah. Because that four is, that beat is so strong.

Yeah. And I've heard Ray Brown and Buddy Rich do things together. And I forget what the other albums. Well, yeah, obviously. Yeah, the night before, the Hollywood Bowl. Wait, are they on the Bud Powell stuff together? They might be on the Bud Powell stuff together, the Genius Bud Powell. Yeah.

Amazing Bud Powell. But they're just so swinging together. Yeah. Those two specifically have, they have a real heavy, heavy pulse. Yeah. And then Herbelis does as well. Yeah. You know, and I think to me, just that initial impression, of course, there's the amazing phrasing from Ella, there's the amazing phrasing and the texture of Lewis's voice and the contrast between the two of them.

Big contrast. She has this incredible instrument, this pristine, beautiful nightingale of a voice that she can literally do anything with. Yeah. And he's got this gravelly, an octave lower, you know, you can hear mouth noises happening all over the place. It's, it's, and, but they, it just works really, but he's so sophisticated in his musicality. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, everything that he's doing is the choices are just the highest level.

And of course, you have Oscar Peterson essentially taking a solo underneath all of it. It's only on this tune, though, right? But to me, what stands out just in that first example and throughout this entire album is the battery of, of Ray and Buddy and Herb. Yeah. I mean, I agree. And I think, you know, it's a particular kind of swing. I would say in that it's interesting you say heavy

because to me it doesn't feel heavy no no I don't mean it like it's like overbearing I just mean that the pulse is so confident you know what yeah for sure confident and maybe the heaviness comes also from like it's so precise it's so stuck like there's it's not like that

that you know kind of Philly Joe Jones Paul Chambers like it can kind of push and pull in terms of not like rushing and dragging in a bad way but it's flexible more. This is like there's no flexibility to speeding up. Now, I don't know, someone probably can analyze and put in the comments and be like,

yes, they change 3BPM. But to me, it sounds like there's no possibility of speeding up or slowing down. I agree. I think that's what I meant by. It's like they're the engine. It's almost mechanical, but it's not in a bad way. No, no, no, exactly. It's just so precise, so swinging, so stuck in that groove that, like,

if you're going to play along with them, then, you better be right in there or just put your hands up because there's no in between you're going to be pulled into that vortex of swing. What makes it magical then is that you got

then over that. On top of this mechanical driving force that feels immovable, like you said, you got Ella floating in and out of these melodies. You got Lewis floating and doing all of this

crazy improvisation with the melody and with his phrasing and you've got Oscar floating on these like accompanying melodic lines which is a very generous way to say what he's doing.

But like, you know what I'm saying? It gives them the freedom to play all that stuff and sing all that stuff. I mean, let's just listen to the intro again. So I've heard some, I've never heard alternate takes on this, and most of this stuff to me sounds like it was just first taken. But I've heard some like on the songbook stuff with the same

rhythm section or a similar rhythm section with Elifist Gerald and just verse stuff in general like late 50s, mid-late 50s, they, when they'll do another take or something, it's just as good. Like, they come in the way that Oscar Peterson does, like, it'll be like that every time. But it'll be a different intro. But it's kind of stunning, like, if you ever have to do this kind of thing, like, to be able to come out the gate, like, with the same kind of, like, very, like, fundamental foundational swing that they're playing, like in the middle during the slow.

Like Oscar Peterson starts like he's already playing along with the way that Buddy Rich and Herbellis and Ray Brown are playing. It's like he already knows how they're going to play and it's just like that's the way it starts. And it's really just the first two nose, binging scoo-doo. Like you talk about

hearing where the pulses are already. And I just looked it up. It was the genius of Bud Powell that I'm thinking of with Ray and Buddy playing together and swinging so hard. But I'm pretty sure that's not even the only one. I think there's and they've done several things together. Yeah.

And then, yeah, so we'll just, we listen to this already, but Elephus Gerald's phrasing really out the gate on this. I thought I'd found a man of my dreams. Now it seems this is how the story is. It's going to turn me down and say, can't we be friends?

I thought for once it couldn't go wrong. Not for long. I can see the way this is like where you're already laying back on the thing her ability to go in and out of the time and then the way Lewis Armstrong when he comes in and sings it's pretty different it's pretty different but like

and you like knowing the story now about how he didn't know any of these tunes it makes sense but he sings them like he's known them his whole life for some reason you know what I mean but like he'll omit little sorts apart like you can almost hear him trying to catch up with the with the lyric

because some of it's kind of tricky. You know what I mean? Like, you can tell El Fitzgerald knew this tune. Yeah. Although, I don't know. Maybe she didn't either. But, like, if you know the story out of it,

the way that he navigates the melody is super interesting. Can we talk a little bit about what Oscar is doing here? Can you play a little bit more of what's going on? He's going to turn me down and say, can't we be friends? Through with love through with men. They play. game without shame and who's to blame?

I thought I'd found a man I could trust. What a plus. In a lot of instances here, this is where I've actually done some YouTube videos on this phenomenon that Oscar Peterson, I think, specifically employs in a lot of his accompaniment and even soloing, but it's the no-5-25 thing. So he's not actually playing the chain. on all of this melodic stuff.

In a lot of, he's sometimes he is, but in a lot of instances, it's this kind of thing, Pete. It's this like, you know, this form here, not this specifically, not where he's doing this specifically, but it is this movement.

So anytime you hear like, something like, that is this movement of the flat, three diminished, to the two chord to the one, but it's melodic. Also this. That kind of,

that kind of thing, is this movement of 1, 2, flat 3 diminished, 1, this movement. And he's just using this no matter what the changes are. You know what I mean? He's not thinking about C7. He's not doing a buzz pile. Right. It's all based on the tonic.

He's not outlined. He's just playing the 1. He's playing in the key of B flat on the 1. So you notice at the end, they'll do like a 3-6-25, and he's like, he's not outlining any of those changes. He's just... Right, or... He's just thinking about B-flat

and doing this kind of movement. It's a very bluesy, gospely approach, actually. Yeah, Kailen, can you put a link to that YouTube video where I go on a deeper dive on that? That's... I think it's called the No-5-25. No-5-25. And when I kind of first discovered that,

I was like, oh, that's so... I mean, that's amazing. Yeah, it's great, great, great, great. Cool. Yeah, so, I mean, the whole record... It's funny because sometimes they're like, yeah, it was all balanced. And so, like, I wouldn't consider this in all ballads record.

No, not at all. No. There's some swangers on here. Exactly. Like that one. Let's keep going. Let's hear what could be a bangor solo. Okay.

Oh, yeah. He's going to turn me down. I'm going to jump to that. Save can with me friends. Like, so, okay, just little things that Lewis Armstrongs, because, you know, because sometimes people are like, oh, yeah, I like his playing. He's a great showman, great singer. But some people have trouble getting inside of the genius of his trumpet playing, I feel like.

And not that you have to, but if you're interested in it's always been kind of like, I don't quite get it. It's like he's not a Clifford Brown. He's not a Miles Davis, you know, but... There is no Clifford Brown or Miles Davis without him. Exactly. Like, you can feel that lineage. And the thing with Lewis Armstrong is he did it from whatever, 1910s, you know, pretty much. Or 1920 or so, all right to 19702 or whatever it was.

but a hallmark out of it is the ability to phrase and put emphasis and change the sound like a boo do, but da be it out like to totally change on one note that becomes a part of the phrasing check out how he does that like oh

and then oh with intonation a lot of times because he has such control he pushes that sharp intentionally because that gives it such an interesting kind of over the top thing you know I just point out here, too, that this is such an important lesson that shouldn't be glossed over.

I know we have a lot of piano players that listen to this podcast, a lot of guitarists that listen to this podcast. We often have it too easy for making a sound on our instrument and overlook the importance of this. It's what I've been loving Peter about this. I've been really... I've been practicing my voice for like four years now. And it's really eye-opening because you can't do what you can do on the piano. On the piano, you can run your fingers over the keyboard like a typewriter. and you don't have to think about each individual note.

But if you ever try to sing a song, if you're not literally selling every single word, every single phrase, every single note, selling it into something interesting that is articulated with that. It sounds horrible. It really sounds bad. And you can get away with a lot of technical deficiencies

if you're able to sell a song and sell every word of it. And Lewis Armstrong does that with every single lyric he sings and every single note that he improvises or melody that he plays on the trumpet. And it's a great lesson. If you apply that, then, you're piano playing. And think about if you were to play just, you know, like a 1625 in the key of B flat, you don't have to do anything crazy to get, like, your reaction there was like, oh, yeah,

because it's like I'm really thinking about pulling juice out of each one of those little simple notes in the phrase, right? It makes a huge difference to your audience. It makes a huge, as opposed to just like trying to think of something clever. or play fast or run your fingers over the keyboard, doing it this way, thinking about how Lewis Armstrong and Ella Fitzgerald approaches each phrase,

like Ella does the same thing. Each note, when you hear them sing, each lyric, there's so much behind it. They're selling every single word. There's nothing that's just glossed over, and it matters, that matters. Yeah, and I think that, you know, the better the song, the lyric and the melody,

the easier it is to sell and to execute that. story, right? This tune, I do not think, is the greatest song ever written. I think it's fine. You know, it's good. All these songs are good. Yeah. Actually, is there anything that's... There's nothing bad. And in fact, there's some great songs. I would say... A foggy day is a great song. Stars fell on in Alabama is a great song. Nearness of you is an all-timer. Yeah. Moonlight in Vermont is an all-timer. Yeah, this is got... But this one is one of the week... And not by a lot. This is a great tune, too. Yeah. But I mean, it takes, like, that's next level when you can turn it into something

that is just extraordinary. I think that's like selling the story. You know, like sometimes people will have, they'll tell you, man, you're not going to believe what happened to me last night. And you're like, oh, what? That's a great idea. You had me it. You're not going to believe.

And then they tell the story and it's like, it's like, no, tell the fucking story. Like, you know what I mean? Absolutely. A great storyteller could be like, what happened last night? And it turned out all that happened was they left a dollar bill on the sidewalk by accident. But if they're good at really telling the story, at putting everything in every word, being with you,

as they're telling it. Makes all the difference. Elifist Gerald was just, I mean, that's the only way you can get through 30 songs in a day, some great, some okay, and make them all

really interesting stories. But I think that when you get, one of the things that's just stunning to me about this solo is that you don't have the lyrics anymore to tell the story. And so, but like he's really relying

on the melody, but then the nuance of the way he's playing it to sell, to tell the story and to make it so interesting, even after you've heard it over and over again, this has been in movies, since we've heard a lot.

Check it out. Should I care those she gave for me? Because he's bought into it. You know what I mean? Yeah. Why should I cry? I love that change in the bridge.

You don't expect it. And wonder why. Yeah. And he's adding in full thumb. But listen to how much. What a flop. What a, how much is everything is, matters.

Yeah. She's going to take. And it's interesting. Yeah, it's personal. It's like personalized. Every noty place has some kind of... Yeah. And there's enough like that his heritage,

that New Orleans thing that he's... I mean, he's in L.A. This is like another new at New Orleans, but it's still got that in there. Oscar's not stopping. No. So that's just a short solo. Why you stop when L is coming back, man?

Well, because we talk about the bangor solo, bro. Okay, we'll keep going to keep going. We're not going to get past this first track of. I think there's still swinging. in the rhythm section. Newsflash. And why should I cry? Oh.

Every single lyric matters. Every note matter. There's something on everything. I should have seen the signal to stop. This is why I think, man, the most important... One of the most important, I think, mindsets to carry with us when we're playing music of any kind. but especially when you're improvising, I think is a sense of,

I think on one hand you could call it playfulness. That guy needs some playfulness in his life. Some playfulness, you know what I mean? Yeah. You could call that curiosity. You can call that mindfulness? Well, be careful with the curiosity. That did kill the cat.

It could. But you know what I'm saying? It's like the ability to get out of your head and just let yourself have fun and you got this music here and you're just going to turn it over and see what's here. It's that combination of playfulness,

but intentionality. So it's like, it's serious, but it doesn't come across. It's like the intentionality is serious, but nothing else is serious, right? The approach, like, so everything is about, like,

the final product, selling the story, but, like, you know, living in that joy of the story. They are having so much fun with this. Yeah. There's so much joy in this, and it just translates so well.

Maybe they weren't. Maybe they hate each other in studio, but it didn't matter because it didn't sound like that. This is the job of professional musician. That's right. To turn on whatever switch that is to where your life is not in the best place, but whatever reason, when we get on stage with each other and we start playing music,

or even if we just sit at the piano by ourselves. For me, it's been a lifelong mission. And I feel like this is the real musician's work, is to be able to turn that switch and to be able to connect. Commitment to excellence. Well, it's a commitment to the moment and getting out of my head and what I think about things and how I'm feeling about things, but really just tap into something deeper than those kinds of superficial things. Okay, let's skip ahead here.

There's a couple of tracks that I want to hit Peter before we get to awards. We've got to hit a little bit of this. I do like this guy's emo shirt, though. Emos? Berbellis with a little glisten. In a stream, a sycamore, Moonlight in Vermont.

That's a well-recorded vocal right there. I think Ella Fitzgerald makes a case for being the greatest singer of the 20th century. I mean, I don't think you could leave her out of that conversation. The natural voice is up there with anybody. Yeah. And I think her musicality in terms of how she controlled it, I think, is exemplary as well. I know a lot of times people like, oh, she's too good.

She's too pure. It's like too much chocolate cake people. Yeah, but when it's, that's like if you're just shoving down your throat, but like her curation of her voice, I think it's just as. It's stunning. And like the control over the vibrato and how that affects the music, not just as a pyrotechnics. And her, I mean, obviously, her breath control, all the technical stuff. But that kind of, that, oh.

Writerson sold it on this as well. That's a ballsy move to come in like that on the ballad. Will Lewis feel the Oscar Peterson overplaying award from Oscar? Early entrance. Next time we have that can't take that away from me This is one of the more popular tracks And this is, I think Some of the best collaboration of their voice

The way you wear your hat The way you sip your tea The memory of all that No no they can't take that away from me The way your smile just be And actually, you know, we're talking about Oscar and his playing the one chord. Yeah.

As I'm connecting this now. He does it the whole album. But isn't that what Lewis does as well? It kind of is. Yeah. Yeah. We may never, never be to get. You're so hot, you've got to fan yourself.

Is your arm okay? Put yourself on the back, buddy. It's just kind of dumb. always keep the memory of the way you hold your knife the way we're man everyone of these phrases should be transpected it's just a lot of like new ornish trumpet heritage in there too like he really brought that sound in the national this one i think has a key change this has got some great like they're weave together their vocals Interesting way.

The way do do do do the way you have. You like swing? The way you see you. And the way he changed. He wasn't perfect when he came. They could have like edited it. That's a hard like booboo do, you know, a little break around to navigate the new key.

No, no. They can't take that away from me. The way your smile just beams. Like that kind of thing you can tell he doesn't really know this song. The way you sing all of key. Yeah, but it's just like to be in the moment to be able to like come up with that, it gives it like a playful innocence. No, no, they can't take that away from me. By the way, this is the least Oscars playing at the whole record.

Yeah, that's true. Still I always keep the memory of. He had a great. thing with using vibrato, you know, calibrating the vibrato to affect the phrase. I guess that's called singing, right? It is. Will you change my life?

I love that line. No, no, they can't take that away from me. No, they can't take that away from me. Swing it, boss. Swing it, boss. A little fourth and minor thing. I don't let him here. Don't diminish my demand.

Can't take that away from me. He's like all up on the mic. That's so good. I mean, it's just ear to ear smile the whole time. Incredible. Good record. Great record.

I added a couple things to our forthcoming. We're going to do some underrated, overrated first. But when we get to Apex Mountain. Well, let's talk about some, let's talk about some bangers first. So they can't take that away from me. my track banger. My solo

Bangor, Peter, is Oscar's accompaniment throughout the entire album. You can't do that. It's my favorite stuff that is improvised on the entire record. I don't think Oscar has a solo. Oh, yes, he does. Does he? Yeah, on every record. On every song. I mean, every song. But he doesn't have a designated solo

that I can remember. But his, he's definitely playing a lot. And I love it. He's like, I'm going to get mine somehow. Your track. Canada is in the house. Yeah, so my track is cheek to cheek. And I picked this because I think they're performing like

that's not kind of long, hard tune it's okay, full disclosure not my favorite song probably my least favorite song just as a song I don't really like playing it It's a little bit yeah But what they do with it

So to me I'm always like Pull for the underdog in terms of like lifting it up That's the heaviest lift Oh this is elevated Yeah Yeah this is potential smaltz elevated To a new level

Yeah this is like taking the humble Cornish hand and turning it into I don't know. I haven't been eating meat. Keep going with that. I want to hear where you... Well, no, what's the K-Pon

and turning it into a beautiful turkey or whatever? What's a humble item? Like the Paw-Paw. The Paw-Paw. The Paw-Paw. And making that into a beautiful dish. Pau-Paw? Oh, my Pau-Paw is back.

I love you, Paw-Paw! Oh, yeah, the Pau, the traditional Missouri fruit. That's right. Yes. Fun fact, I had... Last night, Kelly Martin, the beautiful Kelly Martin, and myself, the less beautiful Peter Martin, We enjoyed a bottle of wine from the state of Missouri.

How'd that go? No, we enjoyed it, which I'm saying newsflash. It was very good out of Kansas City of all places. Nice. But I remember on the bottle it said hints of pawpaw, which scared me before I opened it. For those of you that don't know, Pawpaw is a weird little fruit that's grown near the Ozarks. Can you put an image of a pawpaw up, please? They are impossible to open.

They're in season for about two days every year. Yeah. I don't think they're very good. But if you could, a great chef could elevate it, the way. that Ellen Lewis. Our buddy sugar rob over here used to elevate Poppaws all the time. That's right. Right.

Bull Rush. Rob Pondley. Defunct RIP Bull Rush. Yeah. Anyway, that's kind of what cheek to cheek. That's why I took it as my favorite track because I love hearing them sing this. Let's check it out. Oh, that's a Ray Brown thing that he loved to do.

Because he knew skills in all keys. This is like, this is when Harry met Sally. Yeah. And my heartbeat so that I can. You've got a man. A lot of romantic comics. You could see Tom Hanks doing something in the fall. Oral and romanticly in the autumn.

Yeah. This is a good Oscar song on this one. He's wearing a sweater and a buttoned down Oxford underneath it. He's 35 yourself. Forever. Then all of a sudden he's turned 70. I'm in heaven. The kids that hung around me through.

And it's amazing because this is the hardest kind of song to just learn at this. You can almost hear him. He's struggling with this a little bit. But it's still just so. There's a lot of lyrics to fit in. Yeah. I mean, how do you pull that off? Just kind of rolling up in there.

It's a commitment. I mean, this is hard to. And then harmonically, this tune doesn't go anywhere. That's not until it goes somewhere. On the second bridge. Like everything, it's all ice cream changes. Have as much Yeah, there's not a lot

Yeah, we got to pick you. No, no, it's great. That is my bang, I know, but it gets, I mean, we don't have time to listen to when it really gets to bang. It's already banging, but I just, I just think it's such an interesting thing. Any tune on here can be the banger. Because what they're bringing to the session was consistent, you know, everybody. Your banger solo, we already listened to us.

We did, yeah. Can't We Be Friends, which is, I can't. But it also could have been, they can't take that away from me. The song, I mean, I don't know, I think it was going to be. You want to his solo. Let's do some awards. Let's just make sure here that there's no tracks that I want to... We got to do with underrated, overrated.

Oh, you want to jump to awards for it? Underdogs. So, I do love a foggy day. Do you know a foggy day, Peter? I was a stranger in the city. A veck verse. Out of town where the people I knew. And shoulder can see.

I had that feeling of self-pity. What did you? What did you? I love a verse. I do too. I don't need to hear it every time. This segue is interesting what they did when they go on. It turned out to be the lucky thing.

New Orleans actually very close to Brooklyn. They're just like, no, we're going back. We're going to. A foggy day. Oh, a foggy day. He's already. changing it up. That age

took a lot out of his words. Wow. It's amazing about Louis Armstrong. He's really a one of one. We're going to talk about it when we get to first call subs, but nobody marked. No one Marcus corrected Louis Armstrong. No.

There's no other. I mean, Mark, correct, you know what? I'm going out on a limb. If anybody, no. No, no one did. It has to be a new orange. I mean, Nicholas Payton? Close.

But you can't, when you're so influenced. I love Nicholas Payton. Yeah, no. Can't do this. Right. I mean, maybe he could actually. I don't know. Oh, that's...

That can Cole. Producer Caleb said that. Yeah. Producer Caleb says Mack and Cole. That's actually a great... Well, I think any artist that stays... Through the fog in London Town. It stays on top right so they kind of.

It's hard to talk about market correction. Because, Louisville. I had one of his biggest hits in the last couple years of his life. What a wonderful. I love how free they are on this one. Oh. Low-key Buddy Rich has some killer little fills in this. High-key, Buddy Rich is pretty amazing. He has the only thoughts on Buddy Rich is a drummer?

He is the greater thing. Caleb's making a great point that he's known for being such a crazy band leader. Kind of a star on the tonight show drummer doing crazy stuff. But he's just, he's a really solid accompanist, as was shown in the Bud Powell as well. He's just like on it. Yeah. He's a great sideman. Yeah, because what he was known for later in terms of being in the front was quite different.

The brash, the bus yellings, the whole thing. A beautiful employer, apparently, too, as well. We don't know. We can either confirm or deny. Some over underdogs. Yes. Underrated. You know, I have Herbie Ellis here, but I'm going to say the entire rhythm section.

We'll say Buddy Rich and Ray Brub. as well because... Yeah, Buddy Rich is underrated? Ray Brown, underrated? I think on this album. They might be underrated on this album. As Caleb's mentioning, you think of... Maybe Buddy Rich.

You think of Buddy Rich as this brash soloist. You hardly ever hear Oscar Peterson as an accompanist like this. And that's fun as well. But I think certainly Herb Ellis is an underrated force on this album, I think. Just Herb and Ray's quarter note is so strong.

And then having Buddy Rich there, as you said, like these little details that he's adding just it makes it for me. But if everybody's underrated, then all right, Peter. No, no, no, I get where you're coming from. I'm going to focus more.

I would say Buddy Rich is both, on this record, is underrated and that a lot of people don't. I mean, I think people know that it's him, but it's understated. This is understated Buddy Rich, which to me is some of his most interesting playing.

I would say overrated Buddy Rich is when he's just pyro-technic soloing chops technique, which can work for some people. interesting with the drummer, but that's less interesting, which he doesn't do it all in this record. And so that's why I think this is a little bit underrated, because most people would never say, oh, this is Buddy Rich's best point. They're like, oh, no, he can't, he's not

doing any of his great stuff. Over underrated. Over and underrated. That's what I'm saying, over-hyphen underrated. Right, exactly. Underrated, vocal duet albums. Are those underrated? Well, we don't talk about them a lot. That's true. Well, but I mean, it's like, well, we just lost Chris Christofferson. And around my house, not necessarily with me, but a famous record is, you know, Barbara Streis and Chris Christa those vocal duets. That was a thing

in the 70s, right? But that's different than this. Did that come on it? No. No, no, no. I don't know. Kelly Martin. Kelly Martin, all about the,

that duo. But I mean... So Kelly Martin, fan of Missouri wines. And Chris Christopherson. And, but only with Barber Strison. Is Kelly Martin my Aunt Linda? Let's see if they're related.

Similar taste. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I think so. I think they should it is a little bit because it has but it hasn't been you know I was around something not that was a little while ago that was great and so that would make me say underrated Gregory Porter and Diane Reeves you know dated a couple things that I got to play on and I remember being like wow that was a nice duo that was that was easy that was natural like he sat in with us and it was just like super I don't remember what we did but it was super like they they blended oh Diane Reeves and Bobby McFerrin oh hell yeah I got to be a part of that. Right on the stage with that, that was nice. So, yeah, I mean, I think it's traditionally we're thinking male and female, but it doesn't have to be, but these are, I think this remains Elephist Gerald Lewis Armstrong, probably the template for it. Not the template, because you can't template this, but like the high water mark perhaps. It's a pinnacle for it.

It might be in Inpex Mountain for it. Oh, that's right. We're not there yet. Undefeated. I'm going to introduce a new element. Undefeated? Okay, go for it. Elephist Gerald.

On this record, right? She's undefeated. She's undefeated in her career, honestly. She kind of is. She kind of is. I mean, you know, there's the precision there. There's the tenacity. There's the effortlessness. There's the incredible instrument. There's the music. I mean, just we say it. But the consistency, I think, is what just is crazy. The only thing that you could maybe want more from her is a sense of, like, bohemian artistry. She's so polished. And her choices are very commercial in general. Shout out Norman Grants. She was just a little bit, like she, even though she, even though, she sang with the B-Bop cats as well. Yeah.

She never really dove headfirst, like Sarah Vaughn or someone like that into that. You know what I mean? Well, there's some other, we should check out some live, like live in Rome. I know, I know. I know from the early 50s late 40s. No, no, no, the same period. Actually, the next year, some of the verbs, the live stuff that, that, with the same thing with Oscar Peterson, Buddy Rich, or even late, the later Oscar Peterson

trio with Ed Thigpan and Ray Brown, where she's just like scatting and going crazy. I'm also just ignorant on this. No, no, no, it's, I mean, compared to Sarah Vaughn, I know what you're saying, and Billy Holiday and maybe, yeah, I know what you're saying. But she does do, do that. She just, these records are so big and they were so controlled in a way, you know, I mean, the fact that there's no piano solos or there's one piano solo continually. But there was a certain control by someone, you have to assume it would be Norman Grants, the producer and kind of, you know, trying to make hits out of these records and stuff. But she had that, for sure. And the live stuff is where you hear it.

I might have a hole in my knowledge. I just think of her as like, someone in love and with strings, and obviously some small group stuff where she's swinging like this. Because she was so swinging. But to me, there's not the same what you get with Billy Holidays.

You get this, like, you know, this sense of... The depth, maybe? Yeah, there's some melancholy with it that's not just, I'm here, I'm polished, I'm the greatest singer alive. You know what I mean? Right. Sometimes what I get from Ellen.

Elefis General. She the Tom Brady of Singer. Yeah, maybe. So great that everybody's just kind of like, undeniably great. Undeniably great. And I'm not complaining at all. There's no scrapping this year.

If I had to nitpick, right? If I had to nitpick something, it would be. I got you. But that's kind of maybe what the undefeated category should be is somebody like. You know what I'm saying? It's Tom Brady. Exactly. Yeah.

Patrick Mahomes, I guess. No. I don't watch NFL, so I don't know. Okay. Let's get into some, well, underrated. We got those. Yeah. How about some apex mountains?

Apex Mountains. So is this the Apex Mountain for Swing for the Masses that you put? I would almost say, is this, yes, Apex Mountain for Jazz. Well, Jazz died in 1959, so this was right near the end. Well, I think even more so than, like, kind of blue. For, like, for just potentially, it's not going to be for everybody, but is this record as a jazz record? No.

The most palatable to every human of the $8 billion or however many there are on the planet, potentially. Maybe, but I don't think. timeless. I don't think it has, and we can get into this during the snowmobitur section, I don't think it has the sort of musical, improvisational chops of an album. But that's not what the masses want. That's what you, Mr. Jazzy, with a blue note on your head, want. That's exactly what I'm saying, though. But if you had to put this up against kind of blue that has these like sweeping beautiful trained solos and melodic miles solos,

but a similar appeal to the masses, wouldn't that be a better, representation. I don't know. This, like, maybe that's like, this is like, this is almost the Tom Hanks of jazz, you know what I'm saying? That's a great call. This is that, you know, everybody loves him, like, who cannot like him? Remember when Tom Hanks got like COVID? He was like patient number four or something. Everybody was like, the world was deflated. And KOB's like the Daniel Day Lewis. There's no haters of time. Yeah, exactly. He's great. And maybe somebody, you know, that's in the nose that say Daniel Day Lewis is the better actor. I don't know. Can't speak to that. But I just think that this kind of record, now the next two records they did together, I think equally so.

But if we look at this record, maybe the most palatable out of all those, like, for anyone on the human to be like, this is jazz, do you like it? I think you would get the most number of people. There's like a nostalgia factor for sure, even if people don't know what they're listening to. But there's also like, it's not dated. That's the thing. And that's why you could get your, and we'll see what happens when we get to this nabometer. but there's a certain kind of like corny, boring jazz sound

that a lot of people be like, that's jazz, and that's why I don't like jazz. Whereas this is like, that's jazz, and that's why, yeah, I do like jazz. But then they hear something else, even KLB and be like, oh, no, I don't like that kind of jazz. I like this kind of jazz. And I mean, the more sophisticated

or complicated version of this is like Oscar Peterson Trio doing C Jam Blues Live in Denmark, where Kelly Martin's always like, every time she hears that, it's like, I like that kind of jazz. To me, this is that kind of jazz. So Kelly Martin, Chris Christofferson, Missouri wines, Oscar Peterson Trio Live in Denmark. We're just getting a nice picture of Kelly's taste.

She's got, and Peter Martin. Another thing she loves. And Peter Martin, that's four. I like all those things. I like all those things. And Denmark, Cape Copenhagen. That's like her favorite city in the world. I've never been, but I hope to go soon.

Okay. But what do you think? What would you say? I think that's kind of a long walk to get there. No, but do you think, is this Apex Mountain for jazz? I'm putting a line in the sand, my friend here. For me, no. For me, no.

So what is? What would be if it wasn't this? I would say it would have to be kind of blue. Okay. Would be the Apex Mountain for jazz. For the masses? Yes. For everybody.

For everyone. Gotcha. If we're talking jazz for the masses, Kenny G. Well, no, I think this record, Ellen Lewis has more universal appeal than Kenny G. I agree.

And it's not as dated sounding. At this point, at this point, I agree with all that. I don't know. I don't know. I think it can definitely be in the argument. I mean, I think Kenny G's playing, like, just on its own when you take away maybe some of the more dated background things and what, like, the way he plays melodically and his sound has a huge appeal and is amazing. You know what I'm saying? To me, it's not amazing in the way that Cannibal Adderly is maybe, but it's like I can understand the appeal and there's a beauty there. There's like a craftsmanship that's amazing. But for me, that's on this record, not in the same way, but also. It's got like the vibe. It's got songs that are good, maybe not great. Some of them great, but they're interpreted great.

That's swinging. It's simple, but it's got like a little bit of an air of, this is almost like, you know, what, okay, ooh, so we've got Tom, this is the Tom Hanks of albums. What's the, what's the cuisine or restaurant that this is? Like, because it's, it's not McDonald's. It's literally not McDonald's. But it's potentially, this is all, you know what this is?

This is like a wonderful pizza, like high-level pizza. Like, potentially anyone in the world might recognize and like this. Like a Napoli pizza, right? But it's not really off-putting to it. I mean, some people will be like, I don't want to have that right now. It's just a pizza margarita. Oh, pizza margarita. Exactly.

There's nothing, there's no bells and whistles. There's no, but a beautiful basilical. Little basil on there. Little buffalo. A little buffalo mozzarella. Like your whole thing, yes. Are we going to lunch next? What's going on?

I'm getting hungry. I can actually go for some Neapolitan pizza. But you know what I'm saying? Like, it's simple. but it is sophisticated. It's celebrated. But it's pizza. It's pizza. Yeah.

It's just pizza. I got it. But it's like, and the difference between what you just described type of really great marguerite and like something that you get at a gas station out in the middle of Missouri. It's like this ramen shop in Osaka that I went to. It's just ramen. You still order it from a little machine and then they take your ticket to get, you know, that's how you order.

And there's just a countertop, but it was one of the best meals I've ever had. It was bespoke. Yeah. Okay, I like this. I think we've exhausted that metaphor there. Is it the Apex Mountain for the Great American Songbook? I think this is a strong case. I also think any of Ella's Gershwin, Cole Porter,

all of those, I think you can make an argument for that as well. Yeah, and I think this one, in an interesting way, maybe because it's an assortment of different composers. You know what I mean? Presented in a way that's really high level. And I think the great thing about the Great American Songbook is not just those little, not little, but that, I mean, just like any genre,

like those incredible songs. To me, it's the whole thing of how many greats... I mean, like a foggy day. That's not the greatest standard, I don't think. It's a very good one. I think it's a very good one.

I think it's the greatest. It's not even the greatest, like top five of the Gershams, maybe. I think it's A tier, not S tier. Right. Yeah. But that's the great thing about the Great American song

with that there's such a great volume play. It's like you go to Costco. It is. Like, oh my God, there's so much stuff. But it's actually good stuff there. You are a metaphor. Dude. I mean, I am in the metaphor zone.

I'm also an executive member now as of last week of Costco. Well, but I divert. Oh, look at this guy. I can work you up with you. Is this the Apex Mountain for trumpet playing in the cracks of vocals? Yes, I added that.

I'm going to say no. I'm going to say I prefer Clifford Brown and Sarah Vaughn. Oh, damn it, I didn't think that way. Just on my own preference. Oh, you prefer that. So you were like, we're playing spades, and I'm rolling along, and then you're just like, bam, you got to counter that.

You got to counter that. Trump card. You may be right. So I'm going to take that off. Is it Lewis Armstrong's Apex Mountain? No. I agree. Is it Ella Fitzgerald's Apex Mountain? No. I agree. But Ella, I don't know that she has one.

Yeah, that's the thing with Ella, right? You mentioned undefeated. Is there no valleys? That's part of it. Yeah, like what is Tom Brady's greatest? Yeah. It's like this, you know, this tone that just happens. If you win one Super Bowl only, that's your Apex Mountain as a football player. If you're Tom Brady, there is no Apex Mountain, right? That's true. Well, he lost a lot, but yeah. He lost plenty of Super Bowls. But I hear you. hear you. Yeah. Is it Apex Mountain for vocal duets? Jazz vocal duets? I say yes. I can't think of another

jazz vocal duet that I would prefer to this. But I mean, whether that's this record or just Elefis General and Louis Armstrong in general, I think that's, I think they're the finest. Is it the Apex Mountain for busy-ass piano playing? Oh, I thought it said bluesy-ass piano playing. Nope, says busy-ass piano playing. No. I mean, it's a lot, but it's not the Apex Mount because... It is for me. It's... The Ozzy Peterson did it on too many other records. I coined the award. I coined the award we're about to talk about, which is the Oscar Peterson overplaying award. I coined that award from this album.

Oh, it is. Okay. Yeah. Well, you can make a case for it. I just think this is another kind of Tom Brady situation where he did it a lot. He won a lot of Super Bowls for that. Okay. The awards, the John Coltrane theft award goes to? I'm going to say Buddy Rich. Oh. And I know I'm calling an

audible. My apologies. But because of, like, it's so understated, but he's so many little details, little things that he... Wait, tell me the John Coltrane Thief Award again. Who steals the record? I don't even understand what that means. Like, who overshadows on the record?

Well, he doesn't overshadow. Who overindexes for what their role is? I mean, for the way he's playing, I think it's kind of buddy rich. You could say Ray Brown, but again, he's just so... He's being Brown. He really tried. He really tried the over... To steal it.

Had they had Oscar Peterson outside of the introductions, you noticed that he's way up in the mix. on the intro. And then it's like, shoo! He's just like, Man, Norman Grants is like, and no. Well, that's this, there's no doubt about it. The Oscar Peterson Overplaying Award goes to Oscar Peterson.

This is our easiest one. This is the easiest one. Is there any? The role he was meant to, he was born to play for. I didn't hear any Keith Jarrett vocalization award. I guess I would give that to Lewis, actually. There was a little bit of Oscar Peterson. Oh, that's right. You can't give it to a vocalist.

Keith Jarrett vocalization award. Oscar did on some of those intros a little bit. That's right. That's right. On the intros, we're going to give that to Oscars. It's not, I mean. Is there any Cecil Taylor taking it out award? No. This is not that kind of record, sir.

I feel like, though, I'm going to give it to Lewis Armstrong on Moonlight in Vermont. The way he comes in? Yeah. That's true. He did. That was an arresting. Yeah. First call subs.

Okay. Can I say what you put down or was that a joke? No, it was a joke. Okay. I want to say for Lewis Armstrong, this, that, that, this would be the hardest one. And so this is a little bit of a stretch. But if I had to call somebody

that was around during that time and could cover, it would be very different, but could cover the vocals and the trumpet, I'm gonna say Chet Baker. It would be awful. It would not work. Well, it would just not work. I mean, well, who else?

Chet's great, but this is not his vibe. Can I say what you have on here? Well, I put Chris Bodie, but I just like, imagine if Chris Bodie is on this album. I know, but he does kind of sing with this trumpet. Oh, oh, ooh. You know what I mean. Aunt Linda learned there.

It would just be a funny, like, Here is the nephew. With the modern reverb and all the stuff. That would just be weird. It would be weird. No, but I mean, another trumpet player vocalist, Jeremy Davenport? Jeremy Davenport would freaking crush this. That's a great call.

I'm mad at myself because he's a friend of the show. Friend of the show. Friend of the host. Yeah. Lifelong, he's a childhood friend of yours. Yeah. And he's a great musician. But he's not alive during this period.

We always like to. But yeah, if we're stretching. He would be the perfect plug-in play for this. Benny Benack, the third? Another good option. Is he allowed to be not? nominated for this. He wasn't alive then. I can't think of too many other folks. I mean, obviously now, actually, I know he plays piano, but Nat King Cole, I think would be an

interesting choice. Nat and Alas together. How is this trumpet play? Not great. Not great. Nicholas Payton can seem pretty well. Can he sing? He can sing a little bit. I knew he could. Yeah. I mean, he's not going to jump into this. I mean, okay, Nicholas Payton could jump in and kind of sing like Lewis Armstrong and certain play. But it would be like an homage as opposed to like. So if you wanted to sub, like... No, you would have to have someone who could bring their own thing to it, too. Elephist Gerald, who's going to sub for her? Or does the whole thing fall apart?

Carmen McCraer, Sarvon, is what we have here. And I think those are two of the obvious choices. Yeah. You know, it could have been interesting to hear Lewis Armstrong. I would say, I was going to say, it could be interesting to hear Louis Armstrong and Blossom Deary. Blossom Deary. These two very opposite distinctive voices,

one's like a cutesy little angel and ones, like has this gravelly thing that's way down low. Right, because there is the dichelieu. economy already there with Lewis and Ella. Nancy Wilson. She would have been on the young side. She would have been young, but so would have blossomed beer. Piano.

I love what you put. I love what I put. Art Tatum would have been a good choice. Yep. Hank Jones would have been incredible at this. He would have laid down an incredible bed of sports. Ellis Larkins would have not been as Noby as Oscar Peterson, but. Guitar, we've got Bernie Kessel.

Yeah. Barney Kessel, excuse me. Barney Kessel, who just, I think, previously left Oscar's band right before this. And you have Mark Whitfield, which is an interesting choice. Mark Whitfield could play all this stuff, and he could also almost keep up with Oscar Peterson,

if Oscar Peterson lifted up his hands and he wanted to solo. I mean, if we're going with more modern people, Russell Malone. Russell Malone. Russell Malone? You're a good choice. Mark Whitfield, Russell Malay. Yeah, fantastic.

Base, I've got Slam Stewart. Yep. Piano, we had Art Tatum, and that's why I thought of Slam Stewart for that. And drums, of course. Ed Thickman. At Thickman. You know, the next drummer in the...

For sure. But spoke genre. What do you have for you? You've got it in all cap. I mean, you've got to bold it. You're shouting at me. That's just the format of the sheet. But I do have, from my bespoke genre,

goat pop, because these two are goats, greatest of all timers. Yes. And this is, in my mind, as close to a jazz pop record as you can get. There are hardly any improvised solos. Even when Lewis is soloing on the trumpet, he's usually heavy, heavy melody leaning. You know what I'm saying?

Yeah. And yeah, this is a pop record. Like you said, it's very, very palatable. to a lot of people. So I'm going to call it goat pop. Goat pop. I like it. Sounds weird, but I like it.

Okay, I did. Why did I do this? Duo gas jazz. What the, what? My idea on this was, I was trying to come up with something that sounded cool, duo gas jazz jazz.

But now it's... What gas? Peter is? Jazz, gas. But should be duo jazz gas. Gas, it just sounds gross. It sounds gross. Duo jazz gas.

Let's move on. Okuchermonts. Can we see the album, the original album cover? We already talked about this a little but we do like this album cover quite a bit. I'm sure they could have gotten a little more creative with it, but I love it.

I love it. I love the color palette of the Keppel Studios. A panorama. Oh, I'm really blocking. Sorry. And you also kick the camera. A panoramic truth. A close up shot of Pete's torso.

Caleb said, just ask me. Okay. I love that. High five, everybody. It's high five. Hot takes Wait, I want to look at You know, we like to look at

We thought this was the original But when it was actually released on LP Can you put the other, the original? We use this, there you go. What a great cover. Is that Disney Galisbee or I don't even know if that's them? The hell is going on. That's one of these bootleg issues.

For our listeners, it's this bootleg cover, Lewis Armstrong's Arnold books 80 And Ella, the whole thing is this is bad And it's like colorized But it's like chat GP It was polarized by my 12-year-old son who is colorblind. It's bad.

All right. Shout out divulging family medical conditions. Okay. Do we have another, is there another art that I sent you? I can't even remember. Was that it? Oh, the Hollywood Bowl. We saw that already.

That's interesting. Snomometer. So refreshing everybody, as well as myself on the snowmometer. One is Aunt Linda would love it and a snob would hate it. They wouldn't even want to touch it or talk. about it. Ten is Ethan is Ethan

Irison sends out a daily vlog about this. A blog. It doesn't do video. It's only a blog, yeah. sends out a newsletter. Shout out his excellent newsletter. I just received it the other day.

Yeah, I got to check it out. It's always good. Would love it, but Aunt Linda would curse at you for putting in front of her. She would repel, yeah. So I'm going to, because I don't think... By the way, it doesn't curse. It's okay.

Okay, sorry. I'm going to, and I see you have three. Tell me you're thinking on this. Yeah, I think it's a little more... I just think that, you know, we're jazz snobs, and we love it. Are we though? Well, we kind of are, yeah.

But where do we fall usually on the snobble leader? We're not quite a snobby as someone like Ethan, or we don't have his refined taste as someone like Ethan I ever said, but we're snobby enough that if we like it, it can't be a one or a two, I put a three. Now that I'm thinking about this, though,

like we've got to stop doing the Ethan. I know, Ethan would be like, I love this record. He's got a great taste in all of this stuff, So I think we're talking about a different kind of snob. I think it's more just like... Like an insecure snob. Yeah, yeah.

Would not like this because they're like, oh, no, because this is one of the best-selling jazz records. Yeah, it's more like the comic book guy from Simpson's style of snob, where it's just like, worst duet ever. You know what I mean? Because it would be too, like,

they ruined it when they released it to the messes, kind of snob. Right. Which I don't think... You are a Simpson's snob, apparently. How was that? Was that a good concept guy? That was very good.

What's his name? Simpson's guy. It's comic book guy. Oh. Okay, there you go. Better than K-O-B? No. No.

Well, I said, nah. Nah. All right, let's go out on the final track. Peter, this was so much fun. I love this album. Great record. This is a nice palette cleanser for what we've been doing. This is April in Paris.

We're going to come back next week with some Cecil Taylor. Oh, yeah, I know who's winning the Cecil Taylor Award on that. Until next time. You'll hear it. In Paris. Chestnuts in blossom. Yes. We're not... We're back.

We're not really going to do April. We're not really going to go to Paris and April together? I was hoping we... Cecil, where are we? We may. I actually have a couple of... Well, one in particular, a fantastic Cecil Taylor album. I want to turn you on to.

Are you serious? Yeah. No. Yes, absolutely. I have some good Cecil Taylor stories. I'll maybe we will. I have a great restaurant recommendation for Paris as well. Should I do that?

Can we do the Cecil Taylor episode from the rest of? restaurant in Paris? No, but I'm going to shout that out. Savannah. It's on Rue Descartes, which is the oldest street in Paris on the, whatever, the lower bank. Is that the left bank, I think? Right bank. He's not quite as accurate as Google Maps, but it's close. No, you put in Savannah. Richard is the proprietor, good friend. If you go there, please tell him Peter Martin's from the podcast sent you. Savannah on Rue Descartes. We'll see you there.