You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - This Week in Jazz - #11

Episode Date: January 14, 2019

Adam returns from "the happiest place on Earth" to the SECOND happiest place on Earth: the Podcave, where him and Peter catch up on all the latest jazz news, including Peter's time at the Jazz Congress. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Hey, Peter. Yeah, who are you? I don't recognize you. It's me, Adam. Oh, hey. Magical Adam from Disney World. Hey, is it cold in here? It's a little cold in here.

Because I notice you have the jazz scarf. I do. I'm Adam Annis. And I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to the You'll hear it podcast for the first time in a while back at you together again. Yeah, you look a little nervous. You're forgetting your line so bad. I have no idea what we're doing anymore.

I've been away for so long. Those Mickey Mouse ears, I don't understand. I was a way before day. I wasn't that bad. You made it seem like it was such a big deal. I got a lot, my efficiency on how many digs I got in on you on my little solo episodes. I was very proud of that. You even took it to the YouTube comments section.

Hey, Ben. It's ridiculous. I bring the battle to them. I don't wait for it to come to me. I had to go there and you know how uncomfortable that makes me. Well, you know, you just didn't know where the commenting was on the page. I actually didn't. I had to go check it out.

But, you know, we're back into it. Now we're back into it. And you are back. You were just in New York for a couple days. Yes, yes. And I think that we may talk about that in this is This Week in Jazz, right? We're a little off schedule, but we decided to push it up to today, right? Yeah, it's our monthly edition of This Week in Jazz.

Or bi-monthly. B-monthly, however we feel like it, however much jazz news can be accumulated to have an episode. We'll do it. I actually had a request that we start talking about some actual Utah Jazz basketball news. But I don't know if that will bring us. I'm down, man. They've been playing really good. So, you know, they were good 15 years ago.

I was going to say, is Carl Malone still on the team? No, Carl Malone is not there. John Stockton. There's pick and rolls, but neither one of them is involved. But we have so much news actually this week that this is a big week in the kind of jazz industry. Well, I know you were a part of a jazz congress. I was as, although the federal government is currently shut down, the jazz government is doing, is up and operating. It is not shut down.

It never closes. It never closes. Yeah, so the jazz congress, I believe this is the second annual. It is. Occurred at Lincoln Center in New York, actually, yes, the last two days. And I was attending representing Open Studio and was part of a panel discussion

on online jazz education that was, along with the representative from Manhattan School of Music, Stefan Harris, the head of the jazz program. And Amanda Monaco, a wonderful guitarist from Berkeley, who has done some amazing online videos for Berkeley. And they let our little rag-tag operation

in on this panel? We slipped in and we had a great time and met a bunch of nice people and also I attended some really informative jazz congressional events as well. Did you guys pass any resolutions or any laws, anything? I did

see Winton walking one of the back halls with a gavel and a robe, but he was a little sheepish about actually putting them on by the way, our friends over at jazz memes did a whole jazz meme thing on the jazz congress and they've banned, I don't know if you heard this, but The Jazz Congress banned jazz scarves.

Oh, did they? Yeah. But that was done after it, because it was cold. It was cold. I saw a lot of jazz scarves. That's not even a jazz scarf. A jazz scarf has to be much brighter in color. Right, right.

Yeah. I feel like Jeff Goldblum. We've got to find some pictures of him for jazz scar. He's definitely has some great jazz scars. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Well, yeah, let's talk about the Jazz Congress because, like you said, this is the second one.

I remember when this happened last year, too. It's an interesting idea. It seems so conservative in the, you know, in the realm of jazz, which is... Oh, and it was. Oh, sorry. Did I say that? Yeah, yeah. I mean, it just seems like the idea seems conservative and institutional in a music that traditionally is not been, but I know that's kind of Lincoln Center's thing is to institutionalize it, you know, on the level of classical music or something like that.

Well, on several levels it felt institution. It was in an institution, and while I was there, I felt like I was in prison. So I felt institutional. No, I'm just kidding. No, it was. Nice for them to have us there and have some... No, it really was, actually. And look, this is the thing. This is, this is the thing. We've talked about this before, the double-edged sword of institutionalizing this music. I mean, we need to do it in order to push things forwards. And look, we here at Open Studio and possibly even here at the You'll Hear Podcast, we've possibly been accused of this ourselves because, I mean, we've kind of institutionalized

things anytime we say, okay, here's a course, and this is the way to do it, and this is what we believe. Yeah, we're not, we're not, we don't have clean hands on this issue at all. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I mean, I have to say that, you know, well, for one thing, Jazz and Lincoln Center did not, they hosted it, but they really led in a lot of different ideas. It was not as, you know, as banning of ideas as it may have seemed, even if you looked at the list. And the general attitude and I talked to several of their kind of, you know, representatives of representatives in Congress, you know. And really their attitude was about they want to get more people involved in this.

It's open to everybody. And it's young still. So I think people shouldn't be afraid. I mean, look, we're going to tease it because there's a podcast, and we want people to love us, basically, and to listen to us. No, but big institutions, you know, always could use a little bit of ribbing. Always could use a little bit of shade thrown on him. Yeah.

Yeah, was Senator Kareem Abdul-Jabbar there? I think I saw a picture of him. Oh, I didn't see it. Was he there? Yeah, I think he gave a keynote. But he's so easy to miss in a crowd. He's such a great. That's like my number one favorite jazz fan is Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm going to hear him talk about anything. He's great. You know, it's interesting with the Lincoln Center thing because I've been reading Nate Chenin's great book Playing Changes. Yes. I got to read that.

You got to check it out, man. And I encourage all of our listeners to check it out. Can you hurry up and finish it so you can give me your comment? I will. I have a used hardcover that I'll give you for sure. It's what, you know what the great thing. And I think we talked about this a little bit, but what I'm loving about it is, you know,

in the era of Spotify, I can just like read and listen and read and listen to what he's writing about. but it's all about jazz in the 20s first century, but he kind of starts explaining what happened at the end of the previous century with you and your generation of folks in the 90s, the young lion's generation. Yeah, but even before that,

with the kind of the start of jazz at Lincoln Center and that first institutionalization of jazz, and what I think we take for granted, especially if folks who are a little skeptical of this kind of institution, is that jazz was not given the due, even up to the 80s that it deserved. That's right.

From a lot of the artistic institutions, including Lincoln Center. And it took someone like Winton, who happens to be a phenom at both jazz and classical music, for someone to say, well, if you do it, we'll consider, you know, doing this thing of putting it in the concert halls. Right. Because it wasn't really there on the same level as the classical stuff.

And we know it deserves to be there musically. I mean, a lot of different kinds of music just have deserved that same kind of respect. But it's interesting to read about, you know, hearing the old critics or the old guard in the 80s, in the early 80s when this was going down, talk about jazz in a way that's like, oh, no one would ever talk about jazz like that anymore. You know what I mean?

Well, and I think, too, and I don't know if Nate gets into this much in the book, but I was reminded at the Jazz Congress in one of the sort of keynote panel discussions that Winton was involved in that I saw at his ability to make an institution and to bring jazz in as cool. coolest possible as you can within an institution.

That's true. And probably cooler and hipper than anything's ever been brought into a Lincoln Center or a Kennedy Center or a Congress or whatever. He's really good at that. I mean, he did pull out like a three-page typed up diatribe on, on like the science behind what is swing and what is it, what isn't. But he even made that kind of cool when he went. I mean, everybody was like, no, you didn't. You know, like when he pulled this page out and no one else had like printed things. But I mean, even that, I mean, it's kind of a hip way that he does it.

So, you know, hats off to him to... And you know what? He said something, and this, I was just trying to look up the name of it. It was called Jazz Swing, Race, and Culture. And I know if you want... I believe you can either already look at it or it's going to be... It's still on the Jazz of Lincoln Center Facebook page. I watched it the other day. Very, very interesting.

Winton, Christian McBride... Terry Lynn Carrey. Nicholas Peyton. Nicholas Payton. Someone else... Myra Melford. Myra Melford. Who, I didn't know her music, but it's good.

It's really good, yeah. And it was moderated by... Do you say Christian McBride, right? I said Christian. Andre a guest. Yeah, it was a manor, a friend Andre. Yeah, he did a great job.

But, I mean, Winton said something that during that panel discussion that I think was great. He said, look, we're going to disagree on different things, and that's healthy.

That's healthy from the music. So I think people don't give him enough credit for bringing in diverse opinions. And, you know, what he said was, you know, we're all trying to get to the same thing,

which is get jazz out there. Now, some people don't even agree if the word jazz should be used that were on that panel. So that was another interesting. interesting kind of thing. But I mean, there really was, in general, a very good feeling about, like, we're all here for the music. And it was fun to be around just so many people that I kind of knew.

And I was like, hey, you know, a lot of musicians, a lot more musicians than I was expecting. So that was really nice to see musicians part of the process, not just like industry folks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Love them too. Well, so I'm going to Jen this week. And I think by the time this airs, I'll have been back to Jen. Yes. But there's going to be a lot of musicians, but also a lot of industry folks.

So I'll let you know how that goes. Exactly. I think it's going to be a lot of the same people. I mean, a bunch of people. I think it's bigger. I think Jen is bigger probably, so it's going to be more people. Can I get your congressman credentials?

Yes, yeah, of course. I don't know if that carries any way at Jen, but it's jazz Congress. It may. So, well, I look forward to hearing about that. Yeah. And I guess we should say in case this does, maybe they will be heard around the time of Jen,

folks could stop by and see you, right? Yeah. Because you're rep in Open Studio and all things, you'll hear it as well. Yeah, if this does get aired before, come by and see us at the Open Studio booth and we have some good free stuff, swag and whatnot, deals.

Oh really? Yeah, offers. We might have some T-shirts. You'll hear a T-shirts? Some stickers. But, you know, so getting back to that discussion on swing and race and everything between Winton and those heavy, heavy cats that were on that panel,

you know, I watched most of it, and it's honestly interesting to hear everybody's, these are all obviously incredible, legendary musicians. And even they disagree to an extent on swing. Yeah. And it just shows you. you what swing is and isn't. Yeah.

And that it is not definable, no matter how many pages of definition. You know, it really isn't because it means something different to everybody. Yeah. Well, and I think two things and, you know, in a one hour or whatever was discussion, you're never going to get to the bottom of all this. But there was really, you know, as it pertains to swings specifically, there was two different issues, as I recall that were sort of being debated or, you know, presented.

And that is, is it jazz if it doesn't have some? swing in it. There was that that was touched upon. And then there was the what is swing and what constitutes swing. And what was cool was the different panelists did have a divergence of opinions and a diversity of opinions on what swing was. There was an agreement that it came from. From the six eight. Yeah. But then somebody brought up a great point. I think it might have been Nicholas that, you know, early New Orleans jazz and even when we're talking about like King Oliver and Jelly World Morton and early Lewis Armstrong, no one could say that. wasn't swinging, but that actually didn't have that beat.

Maybe it had a precursor to her, but there's other origins. But after they got into it, it was kind of like somebody said, I think Christian said, you know, he's so good at kind of summarizing things. And he was just like, well, it's a lot easier to talk about what's not swinging than what is swinging. Yeah. And that's true. That is true.

That is so true. Because you swing is like you know it when you hear it. Yeah. And maybe that's different for, or that is a spectrum for different people for that. But it is one of those things. You definitely know it when you don't hear it. Yeah. Like you definitely know when something is.

not swinging. And I think that they didn't get into this, but I was, I realized like how much an important part of jazz and, you know, jazz industry and musicians and people that really know the music can either play it or are critics of it or whatever is that we're kind of tastemakers in music in general. And people look to us in that way. And I heard that from some other people that were there that were not as much a part of the jazz world, but, but are kind of, you know, a little bit part of it. And so when we get into a thing, you know, when Christian will say, well, like James Brown, that's swinging to me. because he loves it so much and he can hear the connection.

I mean, is it technically, if you put it into an algorithm that analyzes the 6A feel or whatever, swinging? No. But it's all about that spirit of it. So the swing and jazz and creative music, I think that there is a bigger umbrella. Christian said a term in another panel when they were talking about Newport Jazz Festival that I love, which is jazz adjacent. So this is the thing, jazz Congress and to Jazz Lincoln Center's credit, they allowed that to be said many times. He was talking about, because, you know, he's the artistic director and they were saying that him and some of the other people that decide who's

going to be on the program they talk about well we have jazz and then we have jazz adjacent like you can't go totally away from jason you know because there was a big you know one of the first uh headliners that he booked two years ago when he first got the gig was the roots yeah and everyone's like that's not jazz even george we was just like this is going to kill the festival come on you know but he also had you know who was who was george ween talking about was it rate oh um chuck Barry. St. Louis's own Chuck Barry in 1968. He got a lot of flack for that. But it's jazz adjacent.

For Jason, for sure. And that's super interesting. Hey, and for all our open studio members, if you're like an all-access pass member, if you have access to Christian's course here, he actually has an episode called different, or a lesson called different grooves where he breaks down Bootsie Collins, I think it's a Bootsie Collins baseline on a James Brown tune and talks

about its relationship to jazz and swing and how it fits in. It's really fascinating to hear him talk about anything especially that. Well, and highly recommend and it was great being there too because I got so much great feedback from members and also you'll hear it fans. Do there you'll hear at the Congress? Absolutely. They slipped in the back door. Of course. Yeah. A lot of awareness. Scoundrels. That was fun. People really loving it. People are bored out there, I guess.

No, no, people are loving it. But no, it's a great point you make too. The Christian McBride, I think all our courses can be of interest if you're not playing that specific instrument. but Christians especially because he's just talking about music. Let's talk about some music. So great to hear, yeah, yeah. And of course it's bass centered, but the All Access Pass is, shameless plug, a great way to get into that. Definitely.

It's a, dare I say, a magical way. Yeah. Sorry, I'm still reeling from my Disney experience. It's good to be back, man. It's good to be back. It's a small world after all. It's not quite as crowded in here as it was at Disney. Is Space Mountain still open?

It is. I took my nine-year-old daughter on Space Mountain. Fun fact, little Peter Martin at age four, I believe, was one of the first riders of Space Mountain in 1974, 1974. Age four. I think so. That's young to go on Space Mountain, man. That is a crazy scary ride even right now. It's all in the dark.

I'm still terrified. I still hate my parents because of that. Opening weekend. I don't know if you know this while you were gone on vacation in sunny Florida, but we are officially a five-star our podcast. Wait, wait, wait, wait. So we lost two stars. We kind of did.

Well, with our, with our listeners, big shout out to YouTube. And, well, no, those are the watchers. Yeah, well, I was talking about listeners. Big shout out to the podcast listeners. We've always been seven stars, of course, officially. In the hearts of our, of our glorious listeners. With the continuing breakage of the Apple reviewing system, we're only five stars. But before this, we were always like 4.9.

and this is actually something I'm very proud of for us I don't even know if we've talked about it we've had a number like over 100 ratings and reviews 107 oh okay so you do you're up on this I might I might follow closely so we had that's a lot of reviews

for an 11 month old podcast and every single one of them correct me if I'm wrong has been five stars although many of them were actually seven stars because they added the two stars in the yeah in the description but Steve Jobs would let that count Steve Jobs. Steve not happening

he's RIP Steve Sjee So, yeah, five stars officially on the Apple system, except one person early on gave it one star. Was that you? No. That was that you, Andrew? Okay. It wasn't Andrew. I think it was probably my parents.

They might have been a mistake. It might have been a mistake. But because of that one, one star review, we'd always been in that four point. But now we finally pushed it over with enough five and seven star reviews that were officially five star reviews. Cushing it, buddy. Thank you guys so much for that. And thank you to the haters for not putting any reviews. You just stay away, which is what we love.

like and I don't know. Is there anything else we got? That's it. So you'll hear it.