You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - Thoughts on Comping From a Master

Episode Date: August 30, 2019

Today, Peter and Adam discuss Nicholas Payton's Instagram post (seen here at https://www.instagram.com/nicholaspayton/?hl=en) about comping.Like those You'll Hear It shirts Peter shows off on the podcast? Want some YHI swag of your own? Take a visit to our store! Just go to https://teespring.com/stores/open-studioLet us know what you think by leaving a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review, or head over to our YouTube channel and leave a comment for this episode.Interested in more jazz advice? Go here to browse our catalog of jazz lessons and courses available for purchase.Follow us on Facebook, Twitter & Instagram at:https://www.facebook.com/heyopenstudiohttps://twitter.com/heyopenstudiohttps://www.instagram.com/heyopenstudio See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Hey, Peter. Hey, Adam. Do you follow me on Instagram? No. Okay. I'm Adam Maness. And I'm Peter Martin. You're listening to the You'll Hear podcast. Daily Jazz Advice.

Coming at you. That was cold, man. Sorry. Well, I can't follow you, actually. I won't let me. Because I blocked you. Sorry. Not the only one.

Do I unblock? No, don't worry about. Don't worry about. What are we talking about today? Well, we are talking about Nicholas Payton's Instagram post that you brought my attention to, but a mere few minutes ago. But it's brilliant, and I think it's great concepts that we believe in. So I think we're going to be able to spin this yarn nicely based upon Mr. Payton's concepts on copying.

Can we just say in general, too, that Nicholas Payton is a remarkably entertaining Instagram follow? He is. He is. And it's, I mean, for everything that you hear and there's some stuff that appears that he's kind of going off the rails sometimes, but there's a lot of really informative information, mostly, in fact. I mean, that's kind of his bread and bowl. butter is like, I mean, he gets very opinionated on stuff, but it's like super informational, informative, spot on, in my opinion, most of the time. Agreed. He's great. You'd be, uh, you'd be wise to check it out. He can be found cryptically enough

on Instagram as Nicholas Payton. Yeah. Yeah. So he did a couple of posts in the last day on comping, and he started off by talking about, talking to drummers about the style of drumming that Elvin Jones made popular. Yeah. Sort of rolling, busy-ish, filling. Elvin-esque, as we might say. Which a lot of people have copped and made their own, and now there's a whole other new generation of folks doing something from that school, right?

And he made some good points. But then he did a part two, and he really talked more about comping in general for all instruments and what the purpose of it is and the thought behind it is. And I just thought it was so interesting to hear his thoughts of it, especially as a horn player and as a pianist because he does both, and he's obviously, like, has played both roles.

Yeah, yeah. Maybe we can read a little bit and it's kind of respond as we go. But I love the fact that, well, yeah, I'll just get right into it. There's a code in black music. Every question has an answer. It's also about getting into

and creating a space when you're comping. I mean, there he really lays out the most important, possibly concept of comping, you know, creating a space when you're, comping. I mean, if we can sort of let that shower over us and really let that inform our comping, you can go far with that. We talk a lot on this podcast about architecture, of solos or of choruses

or anything. And I think his creating a space when you're comping is a great hint at architecture. Right. And building something. I'm generally against some of these newfangled concepts like being in a safe space. But I think we could apply that here. You know, comping is about really creating a safe space. for the music. You know, it's easy to be like, oh, yeah, you're going to create a space for the soloist.

No, it's for the music. Yeah, the music, yeah. Okay, should I continue on? Please do. Not about what you're playing as it is about propelling the energy. You have to speak the language. Certain phrases have a logical answer

or maybe several, but there's a complimentary rhythm to every phrase. That's what comp is short for. It's like boxing where you've got to be able to read your opponent's move before they make it.

But you're not fighting. It's more like dancing or playing with Legos. I love that. Dancing or playing with Legos. And I don't know if I skipped over if he says it later, or maybe it was even in the first part of this post, but I love like when he kind of,

because, you know, this is all sort of under the umbrella a little bit of Elvin Jones because of the image there. But he talks about how drummers, yeah, it was the other post. The whole thing started like, he talks about drummers thinking they can play like Elvin because they've got some of his left hand stuff and what they think of

as what his beat is and it can be a busy thing and then they forget that they're like oh I'm doing my Elvis stuff you're not listening you're not coming you're not actually taking the concepts it's always easier to kind of grasp onto and mimic what you think of stylistically this this great drummer did but to actually get

inside of his concept which is what he's breaking down if you're out of the context then it's useless and it's just like random elviny stuff and of course that's going to sound good but nah not really it's not one good when elvin does it well I think a lot of here, what he's saying here, I've heard you say a lot of, in different ways. Like he says here, you've got to provide the framework and setting to make what just happened,

make sense, and suggest the next possibility, right? That's so powerful. So Compton's about listening and reacting, but it's also about setting up this space for the soloist and for the band, you know, and doing it with intention and, like, creating that space to add things to the conversation that's happening, to the dance, add things to the dance. Yeah, and I mean, Elv, I got a chance to play with him one time, and I could just, I mean, I was so nervous and just like, you know, I mean, it's Elvin Jones, and it's just so wonderful what you hear playing. But then when you realize that he's kind of stuck in this way of playing, where it is very conversational and he's listening to little me or to anybody, but like, that's the way he plays music, you realize how much a part of his style that actually was in this thing of, like, setting things up and it being based upon what's happened and what's about to happen and what's in the moment. It's not just about what do I think he's, he's going to play and am I going to mimic what he just played? But like being in that flow of what that energy of the performance is and being an active participant in that conversation.

That's awesome. So it goes on, Elvin set up these points of tension and then had a release, but they'd appear to be more busy than what they were. It was all about creating these pivot points leading to a resolution. How you set up a melody dictates what will follow. Don't default to being too busy on the head in. Maybe there's nothing wrong with playing that much shit out of the gate, but there has to be a reason to support it. And then he says, what is my favorite part about this post is this little analogy here. Comping for a soloist is oftentimes like answering a knock at the door. Look through the peephole to see who it is, then respond accordingly.

Right. Opportunity could be knocking. Could be a sad MF on the other side of the door. I said, don't answer it. But I think that's such a great thought to have as you're approaching comping for a soloist. You know, it's someone knocking at the door. of this space that we're all creating. So see who it is. Like, you know, be curious about what they're trying to do

and what their intentions are and then respond accordingly, act in a way that's supportive to them or supportive to the music, you know? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, this is what he's kind of laying out is a very sophisticated way of approaching comping

and actually participating in executing comping. And so this idea of like, it does not, It should not be as busy as you think it is if you're trying to copy Elvin's concept. People always are, there's always situations where we confuse you know, busyness

and complicatedness with sophistication. For sure. And they should not be linked up in that way. Happens in jazz. Way too much. That could have been one of our seven things we hate about jazz. It thinks it's too sophisticated.

So when you get to somebody that's beloved as Elvin, especially for drummers, because of like it's such a, he had such a sound. you know, the sound that he got was so individual. And good drummers think that they can copy that, and they can up to a point.

But like, if you can get inside of this thing, what he's talking about, the tension, release of the phrases as he's comping, that's where the genius really unfolds. And you talk about propelling musicians that he was playing with to new heights. That's what it's all about. I agree, man.

I like this to the, or you're about to do that, the alert part? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Alert. Repetitive phrases are always an easy opportunity to interact. but don't interact at the expense of making it dance. It should feel good regardless of how bombastic. Be able to keep it dancing in short bursts

as well as when playing complex figures with longer resolution points. I mean, you know, Nicholas is great at like, I mean, we talk about daily jazz advice. This is like daily jazz advice coming to you from Nicholas Payton. It's very, you know, as you're playing, when these situations come up,

you can be very opportunistic about applying this kind of thing. For sure. Because one of the things we said about, people hating jazz yesterday was what was it about like making them nauseous so we talk about playing bombastic like when you get to that point where it feels good it's like we can't

become so much about what we're doing to lose sight of what as Nicholas calls it the dance you know the groove the feel the flow of what the thing is so it's like how do you hit that energy level and play bombastically but keep the thing the flow of that dance going on and of course the drummer is going to be a how they is a huge if not the main part of that

Huge. But it is, I think, the responsibility of everybody. I love what he says towards the end. He says, don't just focus on the soloist while missing the chance to lock in with the other rhythm section players. I love the way he phrased that, missing the chance. Right. Because you're going to get these opportunities that present themselves to solve problems or answer questions as they're being presented in the music. And don't be so tunnel vision on, I'm here for the soloist to realize that you're actually here for the music.

and the solace is a big part of that, but really it's about the hole, you know, so just keep that in mind. Yeah, and locking in with the other rhythm section players. I mean, that's where it's out. I mean, sometimes when you focus, like sometimes if I focus on what the bass player is doing and I try to answer those questions

or interact with them in a way, then all of a sudden we've created this groove that completely changed how the soloist is approaching it or supporting them in a way that you could tell they are loving, you know what I mean? Right, right. So, and then maybe, you know, as the solist starts building their own tension,

then you shift attention towards them to give them that answer or support as they build. It's very much like a podcast. I remember about 80 episodes ago when you actually listened to me and interacted and were supportive of what I was saying, and we actually had a really good podcast. So you might want to think about applying this concept to this podcast, sir. So there was another great episode. Thanks for joining us today on the You'll Hear podcast. There you go.

All right. So big shout out to Nicholas Payton. I want to get Nicholas on the, I think, I'm sorry. I was getting aggressive. We're going to talk about the box. Cutter in his hand. Well, because the non-premium members didn't see that. No, I want to, I'm going to give a invitation to Nicholas to come on the podcast because that would be a lot of fun. So we're going to try to hook that up, see if we can get it. We've had a lot of big stars on here. We've had a few big stars. We've had some young stars on the show. Yeah, we've had some big stars. Yeah, we have, that's true. Yeah, we have, you'll hear a premium available. We're not threatening you with it because it's a good thing. If you want to support the podcast, a little extra. Look, support us by listening. Give us a rating review wherever you listen to this podcast. Seven stars only, please. Seven stars.

Give us a like and a subscribe on YouTube if you're checking us out there. Big shout out to You'll Hear It Nation on YouTube. But we have this great thing called You'll Hear at Premium. And just as a little teaser, go get it now. But if you want, you might want to wait. Are we going to do the Hump Day special next week? Sure. So you can get it.

We might do a special deal, but you can sign up now and regret that you did later. I don't know. But anyway, check out You'll hear at premium. We just posted a new video yesterday. We did. And so that was with this, right? Yeah. Yeah. So what we did was just an unboxing.

And we want to say shout out to jazz memes. We started the week with a really fun episode and interview with them. You can check that out. And they sent us some hats. Jazz Daddy. And so we did unboxing. And the ironic part was they sent us a bill for them, too. So I don't know if we're going to pay for those or not.

We might make a meme about it when jazz memes sends you a bill with their present or something. But anyway, we've got that. What else is happening? That's it. That's it. So until tomorrow. You'll hear it.