You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - Tips for Counting During Drum Solos

Episode Date: November 4, 2020

It's another live edition of You'll Hear It where Peter and Adam take your questions - today, they discuss a certain Open Studio course, what to do during drum solos, and improvisation.Interested in more music advice? Go here to browse our catalog of jazz lessons and courses available for purchase. And be sure to check out our All Access Pass - every course from Open Studio on every instrument.Wednesday's Open Studio Live Events:1:00 PM - Adam's Daily Guided Practice Session (for Members Only)3:00 PM - Ulysses Owens, Jr. | Finding Your Beat Workshop + Q&A on YouTubeFor the rest of this week's calendar, follow this linkLet us know what you think by leaving a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review, or head over to our YouTube channel.Follow us on Facebook | Twitter | Instagram See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

We've got a couple of questions here. This is interesting, both referencing the jazz chords for beginners course that we put out earlier this spring. Ooh. It's a very popular course, and so I'll just take a swing at these. Kevin says, should I work on the jazz chords for beginners' course all the way through before moving on? So that's really up to you, Kevin. The answer is not necessarily, but also possibly. It depends on where you want to spend your time.

The courses that we make here are not meant to just be taken like a movie, and then, and done and done. That's not how it works to learn things, Kevin. So don't feel like you have to do everything on the course before moving on to something else. Or don't feel like that you have to vary your practice if you're not feeling it. Just kind of do wherever your interest goes.

If you are getting bored with just working on chords, well, it's time to switch up. Like the important thing is that you practice today. That's number one, right? Just do some kind of practice. This course, though, can be used again and again and again. And in fact, when you kind of go through the initial ideas of it, even if you don't go through every key, which is, you know, we all preach is great for you. When you come back to it a few weeks or a few months later and you start hitting all the other keys, it's going to hit a little different.

Like you're going to understand some concepts that just take time to seep in. And so things are going to change. And that's when things really start to get interesting and really start to get good. So I would say, Kevin, if you're still super interested, if you still have that beginner's mind about it, then stick with it. If you're ready to move on, don't feel guilty like you're leaving things on the table. Remember, these courses can be used again and again. You can come back at any time. And in fact, it's good sometimes to switch it up and then come back to it. And then down below, Jazz Evolution says, should I learn voicing that I like, like the so what

voicing, or is it wiser to start with the voicing from the beginner's chord course to have a solid foundation? So my answer to that is, why not both? Why not just learn a bunch of voicing? that you like. I mean, you can go through that jazz courts for beginners and pick two or three voicings that you like. And that could be what you work on all month. And you know what? You would be a better player for it.

Yeah. And so, you know, the connection I see between both these questions is a little bit, you know, about the order. And we could apply this to the order of learning anything, be it open studio courses, be at scales. I mean, obviously we look at like a certain order of like major to minor being a little bit more logical. to learn, but then once you get into say

the advanced scales and the advanced arpeggios and different advanced harmonic things, it does become like, well, what's the order? I don't think it, I think this is what you were saying there too in terms of why not both. It doesn't really matter the order either. So people get hung up on that because when you're starting out, the order does matter more than

you get more advanced. So if you think about if you're a chef, if you're trying to learn how to cook, you're starting with some basic ingredients and like basic seasonings probably, maybe salt and pepper. I don't know. You got a little bit. I'm so basic. I can barely handle that. Salt fat acid heat, man,

those are the ingredients. That's what you need. Okay. Have you heard of that book? Salt fat acid heat? I've seen it. Yeah. I don't know what it's about.

Yeah. Is it Dr. Michael Greger approved? It is not. No, but it just breaks down to, I mean, it breaks down some of the things we talk about like an elements of jazz piano, how it's like, you know, rhythm, melody, harmony.

Oh yeah. Salt, fat, acid, heat. It kind of goes across ingredient. All the ingredients have either salt, fat, acid, or heat. And it's a combination that you use of those. No, it makes so much sense. And so it's like, yeah, when you're getting those basics and then, you know, so you might look at your spice cabinet and it's like salt and pepper. But then you get into, you know, garlic powder maybe and cinnamon and all these different things.

So it becomes less like you don't want to start out your first seasoning as cayenne pepper because you're not going to know how to use it and it's dangerous, you know, but used correctly in the right amount. So it's a more of a sophisticated thing. So as you're as you're moving along and starting to learn these things, the order doesn't matter as much. but you want to introduce them and stay with them long enough. And to your question, Kevin, about how long to stay with, you know, jazz piano for beginners. No, what was it, jazz? Jazz Chords. Jazz Chords.

Jazz Chords. But any of the courses, it's like you don't have to master any of those necessarily, but you want to kind of use some discernment when you are getting enough because you can come back to it. So you've got your cinnamon, you got your cayenne pepper that you've tried out. You've learned some. You'll come back to it later when you're feeling better about combining these things. Because all the content we do is Evergreen. And the great thing about jazz and I think the evolution and the revolution of jazz and how it continues to evolve every day, hopefully, because this art form is alive, is that we're building upon, we're reinventing things that have happened before.

We're recycling. We're renewing. We're refreshing all these things all the time. So we can revisit them in a way that is really beneficial. So as soon as you kind of pass that beginner stage, that's when you can stop worrying, I think, as you. much about the order and don't feel like, oh, I'm learning this out of order. Noriko says, question. Every time I join the jam sessions and when it comes to the drum solo, I lose count

and can't hit the first note to return on the right time. Any tip to count for any kind of drum solo. So first tip, and Noriko, how's it going? Nariko is a daily guided practice session member and frequent practicer. And, you know, one thing we talk about in there is listening to a lot of drum solos. You know, we talk about Max Roach. We talk about Philly Joe Jones. We talk about R. Blakey.

You're talking about heavy weights. We're talking about heavy weights. But we talk about listening to those kind of players who play simply. Yeah. Not basic, but simply. And are easy to hear their solos. Noriko, the more you listen to those, and you know what I keep saying, I'm going to make a Spotify playlist. I'm going to make a Spotify playlist of some great drum solos for that.

Note to self make a Spotify. Note to self make a Spotify. it is really, there's nothing better for us and there's no getting around that. You can count all day long. Right. But if you're not feeling where the drummer is placing it and I love Colleen says,

Nureko blame it on the poor drummer. There's something to that actually. Like great drummers will not try to lose you. They will actually make it fairly clear even when they're doing complex things over the bar or superimposing things. It's not going to be, they're not going to try to lose you, right?

So if you understand some basic rhythmic language, Noriko, if you can really get it like ingrained in you, it's going to be a lot easier. Yeah, absolutely. And I think, yeah, for sure, the drummer, don't beat yourself. I mean, up too much about this. Because as soon as I read your question,

I was thinking about how spoiled I am playing with some really great drummers. But then being at different jam sessions when sometimes it'll be a great drummer, like you're surprised or whatever. But sometimes, I mean, it's on the drum. drummer really, it's their responsibility to bring you in, to bring everybody in. That doesn't mean that they have to be like, and make it obvious. That's not the only way.

That's like one of the least sophisticated and least interesting ways to bring somebody in. But I mean, you could talk about like Brian Blade who can play these amazing like rolling, trading, either trading fours or just solos where you're going to come out of it. They're over the form. They're not free solos. And so you're saying you're saying you're looking. lose count. Brian Blade is so good at this too. Yeah, yeah. Like he can play some of the most sophisticated

stuff, but you don't have to count it. And like, you might think, oh, well, that's just because you know his stuff. Yeah, I do know his stuff and I've played with him a lot, but it really isn't that. It's him. Like his way of outlining the form is so unobvious, but

obvious at the same time. And so I think that sometimes with lesser drummers, less experienced drummers, less skillful drummers, you do have, we have to work harder to count and stuff. So when you lose count, it is hard to come back in. But what you got to do

it's like that way of counting to where you're counting, but you're not so rigid that you're locking them. Like, you could count perfectly and if the drummer doesn't have great time, you've got to feel where they're pushing or pulling. You have to know. Like, look for clues of where they're playing something with the form. Unless they're just not playing a form. So don't even waste your time.

Just wait until they come back in. And hopefully those are the kind of drummers that need to do. Ba-da-da-ba-da-ba-da-ba. Yeah. If they're polite, they're going to be like, uh, uh, uh, another tip for this, Noriko that I like to bring up. Like, I like how you said you have to listen. Like, first of all, knowing some phrasing, you'll be able to tell then when someone's rushing or dragging a lot. Right.

Like, oh, that's that phrase, but it's way behind the beat. But also listen to the kick drum. It's something that I think gets overlooked. But that kick drum, if they're, again, they have to be kind of a good drummer, but they're going to set you up on the one. They're going to start phrases and end phrases with that kick drum or at least give you some indication what's going on with a kick drum. I find that that's kind of the thing that we tend to gravitate right towards the ride

symbol or the snare drum. But if you can lock in on the kick drum during a solo. Yeah. And the high hat. And the high hat, exactly. Yeah. When you get those feet, like lock in on their feet, you're going to feel their foundation. Right.

Or lack of. Or lack of. Which is what it is sometimes. But you're still going to have a better clue into, you know, even if they're a little bit off as to where they are. And I would say even like find that thing, you know, kick drum, high hat. Maybe they're not playing those at all. Maybe it is on the, like you have to use it as an opportunity to learn how to find out what you have to lock into,

whatever the skill level of the drummer is as quickly as possible. And then sometimes, too, you can kind of look at like maybe the drummer is a little weaker, but the bass player is really strong. So during the drum solo, believe me, if you as a pianist are worried about what's going to be happening and feel like you lose count, the bass player is. probably really were because they got, I mean,

we can always be like, oh, I wasn't hearing anything so I didn't come right in. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the bass player, like, so sometimes you can look at him or her

and the bass player, that is, and be like, kind of start to see what, where they're feeling things and where they're going to come in, you know,

work together kind of thing. Yeah, they're great at that. Yeah, thank God for the bass players. Yeah, exactly. Evan says, what should I do when I feel like my improvising

has become very repetitive? Sounds like, I just keep playing the same thing over and over. How do you suggest I can help with that or fix it. Evan? He's up there. Oh, yeah. I see it. I see it. Nice. So, man, this is something we've talked about a little bit in here. And there are, there are a couple things with this, Evan. So first of all, I'm about to give you some, like, solid practice things to do that are like drills. And so I want to just put a caveat on this that the goal with this is really to be able to play what we hear inside and to get that music that's inside of us a clear path to the instrument. However. But I knew there was a butt coming.

I just want to clarify that before because we're going to do some very restrictive practice here, right? But this can be really helpful for this specific thing that you're dealing with, which is common. It's common to feel like, I remember when I was in high school, I always would start like all my phrases. I heard a recording myself and everything was like, everything was starting on the end of the, right? You know what I mean? I love that. I got to stop doing that. When you demonstrate stuff like this, you get like Adam, little boy look on like this, like look of wonder myths.

Stude, but I like that. Lame. You're a good actor. So one thing that we can do, Evan, is sort of when you practice improvising, think of a cycle that you want to do. Now, you could do a number of different things here. Sometimes I like to think about starting with like long notes

and going shorter and shorter and shorter. Sometimes I like to think about just doing something different with every phrase. So let's practice that. What does that look like? When we want to get out of repetition and think of new things, what does that look like? Peter, can you do that intro that we were doing,

just that D7, the G7? So Peter's going to lay down a fat, funky groove here. And what I'm going to do is cycle through a number of options here. So I'm going to start, like, this could either be, like, eighth notes could be one option, triplets could be one option, chords, as in playing multiple notes, because I play piano, could be one option.

Trills could be one option, or we'll put in, like, this kind of, stuff, right? What else could be an option? Like playing out could be an option. All these things, I'm going to cycle through in my mind. So like one phrase, I'm going to stick with eighth notes. Then the next phrase, maybe triplets. Next phrase, chords. It could be as long as I want. Maybe next phrase than playing out. Then triplets. Then chords.

Then trills. Chords. Then eighth notes. Then long notes. See what I'm saying? So it's a little formulaic if we just do it just like that where I'm calling it. But it's a great way to sort of get out of our heads of just... You don't have that sense of wonderment anymore.

You know what I'm saying, though. It's just a little exercise. Again, you wouldn't necessarily want to do this on the game. Although I have to say, I've done it, I've used it. If no one's listening. No one's listening. If I'm feeling a little stale, I'll be like, I'm just going to switch it up every phrase and just see what happens. Because sometimes you can really spark some cool things.

But as an exercise, right, as like a meta exercise, we're not thinking about scales or anything like that. We're just thinking about like, how can I change up my phrasing with each phrase? Yeah. And I think it's, you know, what your kind of caveat at the beginning, I think was important. But what's warranted about this kind of practice is that us playing what we feel. that's the goal right what you're talking about what you just laid out is a specific practice technique in order to help get to that goal that's like one element that's like specific tangible things that you can do you know we we want to clean up our

whole house okay no one can clean up their whole house at one time it's like okay what is a specific thing that I can do in every room yeah that I can go in like maybe it's it's it's vacuum the floor of every room but you're not like trying to do everything in one room and then move on to the next. You're using something that can develop a number of different parts you're playing and going through. So our goal is not to be able to play what we hear when we practice. It's to be able to play what we hear when we perform. And so these and that's how people get kind of caught up and their their repertoire growth gets stunted. Not even the rep, like, well, their repertoire of ideas. And it's like that whole mindset of like, how do you create something?

Like how do you practice on a bunch of things that will start to develop your ears? and your mind and your technical ability to the point that you might be able to create something in here or something. And I think that people get a little confused with that with the restrictive practice because they're like, wait, I'm not playing what I'm hearing.

I'm playing these specific things that are a little bit pre-planned. And so it's counterintuitive. But that's the exact kind of things that you have to practice so that it can start to come out automatically later. Well, yeah, sometimes you just have to hear yourself doing things right, so that you can hear it later, right?

So I know that I can pull out this button when I, when I'm hearing it. When you go to Vegas, that's a good one for pulling the... That's exactly right. But you could do this a different way. Let's do one more. Okay. Because here's a, here's like a more, this is a little bit more natural way. Someone had mentioned singing what you play, which is a great thing to do for sure to get that music out.

It's a little bit more advanced, though, if you're, because if all you're hearing is repetitive stuff, all you're going to play is repetitive stuff. So what if we took the same idea of trying to mix it up? But instead of thinking about specific musical things, let's go one level up. Let's think about specific textures or even emotions, right? Like, if we're playing this and I wanted to do like head bobby, right? You know what that is. Like, hey, I can think head bob. What does head bobby sound like?

Or what does sparkly sound like? You know what I mean? What is dark sound like in this context? What is dark? Right? what does what does like modern angular sound like like thinking about that and in our practice routine like what is what is joyful sound like

yeah it's got a lot of joy Charles but that kind of thing you might not get it right every time you might you might find things that you don't like but this idea of connecting like actual textures real emotions to the music you know it's what composers do and when we're improvising we are spontaneously composing. So it's good to just get, also, it's good to get out of like scale, arpeggio, you know what I mean,

eighth notes, triplets, I'm a jazz robot. Listening, listening can help always too. Yeah, great stuff, great stuff.