You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - Tips for Keeping Time During a Drum Solo - #54

Episode Date: March 25, 2018

From listener, Elia - Adam and Peter discuss some strategies for keeping time during drum solos. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

I'm Adam Menace and I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to the You'll Hear It Podcast. Today we're going to talk about tips on keeping time during the drum solo. So this is a question from our listener, Elia, and I think this is a great topic to address. Yeah, this is good, but I mean, I immediately think keeping time during a drum solo, that means walking over to the bar and having a drink and zoning out until the end of the solo, right? Yeah, I mean, that's what I do. This is also under the assumption that the drummer is keeping time during their solo, which, you know.

Yeah, if they're not going to keep time, I'm not keeping time. I forget about it. Heck no. All right. So, no, this is a great question. And actually, I think what he's asking about is if the drummer, if he or she is playing really well, they're actually, they're keeping time, but they're playing over the bar lines.

It's getting to the point where you have to really keep track of what's going on. They're not necessarily marking every four bars, as they shouldn't. I mean, just like we shouldn't have to do that. Right. But we rely so much on the drummers to kind of hold the form together that if they're going to be free to solo, which they totally should be, like, How do we, you know, stay in there with them so that we know when to come back in without looking like an idiot? And I would think the first thing to do is to count, you know?

I mean, we want to be able to feel it, feel the form. And I think once you get to know a drummer really well, you can do that. And once you know the forms really well. But, I mean, there's been many times when I've been in situations that weren't super comfortable where I'm just like counting bars because I want to make sure I do my part to come in. Yeah, I think it's important. And, you know, playing in a group with other people is all about trust. and I really want the drummers I play with to trust that I'm going to be there for them. So this is actually something to really put a lot of energy and thought into if you can.

One tip that comes to mind first and foremost that you can do is to listen to or even better yet to transcribe great drum solos and to understand the language of jazz drums because it makes it so much easier if you understand how they're going over the bar. Oh, they're doing this blakey thing, right? I know where that lines up because I transcribed that Blakey solo, or something like that. The more you listen to drum solos, the better you are going to get at knowing where you are in them at knowing that language. Right. Yeah, and I would say that, you know, the more you can study the specific drummers that you're playing with, and then you get to see how, you know, his or her style on their solo is likely to unfold.

So, you know, that may be based, you know, on them listening to Tony Williams or Elvin Jones and certain things that are kind of in the pantheon of drum soloing. Yeah. But there's certain stylistic elements that you can start to identify and I think it's kind of part of our responsibility of playing with people. Now, of course, if it's the first time that you're playing with them and you've never heard them, then you just have to probably count more. But once you start, you know, if, I guess that's the main thing is like to really stay present and listen, not only for that particular performance, but for the next time you're playing with that drum. so that you start to learn who they are. And it's like having a conversation with someone. If you're only thinking about what you're going to say once they're done,

then you're not really having a conversation. So the drum solo is like, I mean, think about drummers. They're like the most supportive when they do it well. Supportive outside of the bass player. They're the rhythm section. So finally we throw them a bone, let them do a little solo. The least we can do is kind of. All right, go ahead.

The least we can do is to like listen and come in at the, I mean, that's like just baseline minimum. Totally. Respect. Totally. Yeah. I mean, if you're having trouble, staying with it, something I like to do,

especially if I'm playing with the new drummer, is to always be singing the melody in my head. I mean, you should be doing this anyway, really, even during your own solo. A, B, S.M. Always be singing melody. That's right. No, but to a good drummer will have the melody in their solo,

even if they're going over the bar. Right. You know, you can still hear them adhering to the form, adhering to the melody. and if you're singing that melody and counting with them, it's going to help you to stay on track. Yes, absolutely. Now, let's talk about some kind of minefields

and we're looking at a real rosy situation with a wonderful drummer that's supportive and plays well and keeps a good time. Let's talk about the reality of many a night when they're playing over the bar line and they're dropping beats and they're not playing the melody and we can't even tell whether it's a free solo or over the full. form. What do we do then? Well, we definitely head to the bar.

That's right. And zone out until they're done. Get the stiffest drink you can find. Yeah. But I mean, you kind of do have to zone out. You're not really zoning out. But I think there's a point where if the drummer is not going to establish some kind of structure and make it clear whether they, like, if we're listening and there's no, you can't

even tell if they're playing over the form or not, it's kind of like, just play. When you're done, we'll come in and make the best of it, right? Yeah, I mean, you hate to get to that point. we're just watching for them to hit the ride symbol again. You know what I mean? Right, right. To like, okay, and we're in. I mean, especially if it starts to happen over like fours.

Right, right. You're like, oh, this is going to be a long. Yeah, we can't even make it four bars. Yeah, exactly. But, I mean, really, you know, it's, I mean, thankfully for the last quite a few years, I haven't been in that situation very often. Of course, it makes it all the harder when I am, when I do get to those situations. It's like a shock to the system, you know.

But I think that, you know, I don't know. It's a tough time because there's many things in this music that as pianists, or really any instrument, we can exert a certain amount of control or positive energy into a situation. A drum solo is kind of like everybody's generally not playing so you can't. But there's one way, depending on the style of the tune, that you can, and that is actually to continue playing during the drum solo. I know. Actually, drummers like that. Good drummers like it, I think.

Yeah, they do. Bad drummers don't like it because they want to get lost and play free. Totally. Yeah, exactly. But I mean, I think it can be done. You just have to be careful. You got to know the personality and you've got to do it in a way that you're not making it sound like you're playing because you think they're going to get lost if you don't play. It has to be supportive.

I think the overarching theme of this episode so far, if you've noticed, is to like pay attention to the person you're playing with. Yeah. And like, be in the moment with them, get to know them. Even if it's your first gig together, you know, by the end of that first set, hopefully you've, you've been getting to know them so much that you can actually start to anticipate some things. I mean, it's so easy. We get to play with guys we've known for years and years and years, right? And it's like talking to them. You know exactly their habits and what they do and how they're going to sound. Yeah. And, and, but if you're playing with someone new, you know,

you can still be a polite person, a musician, as you would be a polite person. Listen to them, don't zone out. Try to figure out where they're coming from. Yeah. And I would just say, be very polite as you say but also be confident and secure and demonstrative when you do come in even if you don't know them that well and really this applies in any situation because if you're I mean if you know where you are you can just come in and everything's cool but there's always times even with great players where it's going to be a little bit you can't tell the best thing is for everyone to come in soundly and securely don't tiptoe around so much that you're like oh I'm not sure because then it's going to fall apart you I mean it's better that you the rest of the

ensemble come in wrong and strong I think and then a good drummer. And then you can vibe each other later. But you know what? That's going to happen one out of ten times. So 90% is that you still have an A. You know, but I mean, we've all been in that situation. But the main thing is like it's about the audience. So if you come in confidently, even if the drummer, it's not fair that they had to adjust to you

because they played perfect time. You missed it. But it is what it is. You know, you're not going in with that kind of a plan. But that's what happened. To the audience, you want to make it unnoticeable and seamless and still exciting. solo and transition back to the ensemble. That's right. Ultimately, we're here to serve the music,

and so that's the first consideration. Yeah, I mean, if all us fails, hopefully, you'll hear it. Thanks for listening to this episode of the You'll Hear It podcast. You can go to you'll hear it.com to get more information, submit a question, or just say hello. You can do that. Absolutely. All right, and if you like what you heard,

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