You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - Top Anti-Desert Island Albums

Episode Date: September 4, 2023

Peter and Adam decide which albums absolutely won't be on their picks for desert island albums. Have a question for us? Leave us a SpeakPipeCheckout courses from Adam, Peter and more at Open Studio🎹 Head over to our YouTube channel for a better look 👀.Follow us on Instagram

Hey, Adam. Yeah. Is it Desert Island or deserted island? I think it's dessert island, like the one that I've circled several times at the double tree. It's definitely not that. Are you sure? Yeah. I'm Adam Ennis.

And I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to the You'll Hear a podcast. Music advice coming at you. Coming at you today is sponsored by Open Studio. Go to Open StudioJazz.com for all your jazz lesson needs. Peter, you know my very first ever gig. Yeah. Regular gig, weekly gig, Sunday brunch.

Yep. I was 15 years old. My dad had to drive me. Sunday brunch at the double tree in Chesterfield. This is the second time I mentioned Chesterfield on the podcast. Right. I think you mentioned Chesterfield cigarettes at one point, but we're talking about Chesterfield, Missouri. Trio gig, Chesterfield, Missouri, the double tree.

And like, I think it paid like 50 bucks, but we got full run of the brunch buffet. And let me tell you something. I was a big boy. And I took full advantage of that dessert island. So, yeah. Desert island. But it is weird. Desert island.

Well, let's tell people what we're doing today. First of all, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so we're talking about albums. I think most people know this. We're taking a bit of a risk today. We're taking a little bit of a risk. We're hoping for avoidance of full cancellation for either of us. Can we agree that we're going down together?

We are going down together. Listen, we might have bad taste. That's nothing you can cancel someone over. That's right. Oh, my friend, that has happened. I guess so. I guess so. No, but the idea is like you see these lists, the 10 greatest jazz albums of all time,

10 desert island, although is a deserted island? I think it's desert island because deserted implies that there was someone there before and they deserted it. I think it's desert island. But they always have a picture of this island. So obviously somebody was there. Yeah. But it's not desert because it's tropical palm trees. It's very strange concept.

But you know the idea is that like, okay, you're stranded somewhere. You can't get to civilization. What are the five albums that you would bring? And we're going to list today. Hopefully you have a turntable on electricity. Yeah. I don't know why you would. But we're going to name some today that.

that are on probably a lot of people's desert island list. In fact, these have, like, we're kind of agreeing, these have to show up on somebody's list. These can't just be out and everybody hates. We don't like, yeah. And so, but these would not go on our desert island list, which doesn't mean that we don't like them or that we hate them. It just means that we don't love them enough.

We don't want to listen to them endlessly for this real life. No, it's like, I think for most of these. I'm gonna speak for myself here, but for most of these, I'm good. Like, I think I've heard them. Most of these I've heard several times. And I'm, I don't know. need to listen anymore.

Some of these even I've listened. I mean, they're not offensive at all. Oh, they don't. Classics, a lot of them. Well, yeah. I mean, and I can, I think some of these I can certainly see why some people would love that. So this is not to disparage anybody else's taste to each his own for sure.

Yeah. But they just don't, for whatever reason. And actually, do we have any that we do not concur on that one of us would have on? That would be fun. And we might actually. Okay. We might actually. So we'll take the lead.

I think we have a couple. I think we have one of mine that you would like and one of yours that I would like. Right, right. But I think a lot of these, well, I don't know. We might be pretty split here, honestly, buddy. Some of these might be going on your desert island and not mine. Okay. But, you know, we have the gentlemen and ladies agreement, the gala. The gala. We're bringing the gala back. We are bringing the gala back. But today, the gala is put in the comments in YouTube, your desert island disc that aren't going to your desert island. So popular albums, or even artists, or tracks. We have one that's just a track here that that everybody loves, but for some

reason, it just doesn't connect with you. Right. It doesn't do it for you. Yeah. Nothing wrong with nothing wrong with that. All right. We're really saying that. There's nothing wrong with that. Can we take a break now and not do it? So speaking of, Peter, your first one. Okay. What is my, I don't even have the list. I have the list. I have the list. And I'm going to, I'm going to drive the ship. Your first one. Let's just play it. All right.

Wait, I love this. What are you talking about? Oh, okay. It's good. He actually is fighting under the table. Oh, man. Wow. Don't let Witten find out. Okay. This is Coleman Hawkins' body and soul. Peter, this is not for you.

This has never been for me. Why is it so loud? I'm turning it up, buddy. Turn up for one. This has never been for you. Well, you know how I like you say. Wait, pause it right there for a second. Pause right there?

Okay, keep a pause. I'm not a fan of body and soul. Yeah, okay, so let me explain. I've always heard from a very young age, this is like the most classic reading of this tune. Yeah. And I realized, I love Coleman Hawkins in some other situations, but he's just not top of my list for tenor players.

I do like his sound. I love his personality. He's a master, for sure. I can hear that. He's just not my favorite. And then also this tune, I like okay, but I don't love this tune. I never have. I totally get it.

So that combination, to me, it doesn't rise to that classic. Like, I've seen this be like the greatest saxophone performance of all time. Yeah. And maybe greatest performance of body and stuff. soul, but I'm like, me. Yeah. I love that this is how we're starting because I think this, for a lot of people, they, they melt at this. But I bet a lot of people would agree with you. Really? I think, I would think so. I was scared to say this for a long time. In my 20s, this was one of those moments for you, that chord. This was body and soul, I was like, I don't like, I don't want to

learn this tune. Like, everybody plays it at jam sessions and it's fine, but whatever. I've come to really love it now. Yeah. So I think you're a charlatan for not. I'm just kidding. No, for me, this is one, I don't know if it would go on my desert island, but I can see why. And I'm sure you could see why other people might like it. But I've seen this like it's been like one of the greatest tracks ever recorded. Not for you. It's not. Not for me. Yeah, yeah. But that's fine. That's why we have controversy. I love it. I'm going to be honest. Like a lot of this stuff, some people say they love stuff because other people that they think are important say they should love it. That's true. And I don't like that. I think you should check something out if somebody talks about like that has some knowledge or

authority or experience, hey, check this out. Like, that's good enough to check it out. But if you don't and don't just listen one time, you're like, ah, it's not for me. I mean, I've like listened to this. And of course, you hear this a lot. And it certainly doesn't offend me, but I've certainly heard enough to say that like, that's nothing that I put on for my own listening enjoyment. That's so great. Oh, you love this. Well, my first one is might be even more controversial. So this is one of my favorite artists of all time. One of my, if I could pick two people, they would be one of the two people. Not sitting with you on your island. And this album is one that I've always thought was okay, but it's not been my favorite work.

It also happens to be one of this artist's most popular recordings. And so I've always been a little bit like whenever it's come up, even here on the podcast, I'm like, oh, yeah, oh, yeah. You know, but really in my heart, I'm like, you know, it's good. I know why people love it for its vibe and especially for its album cover. but for me there's so much deeper, richer things from this artist. And this was still early in this artist's career. I know. I know.

I know. What? Adam Manis. Okay. Let's not put a big punctuation on it. We have to call your mom in here to give you a spanking. Listen. Of course.

I know why it's classic. It's super vibey. Coltrane is the greatest ever. But for me, this is not my favorite thing you ever did. fact, I would put this low on my list of Coltrane albums that I actually listened to. Yeah. Like if you looked at the frequency of John Coltrane's catalog, this would be nearer the bottom. Yeah. Well, so part of this, I agree with you in that this is often cited as his greatest album and certainly one of the greatest jazz off. I don't think this is John Coltrane's greatest

record. He's playing is great on it. Always is playing. But as an album, it's, I don't think it's his most like complete creative output on album now he obviously set the bar very high because he's got a lot of like there's it's very hard to find like subpar cold train playing so for me just the fact like even that solo that's coming up is a great solo but it's not can we just put a caveat on we everybody that we're playing today they're on this list because they're super legendary yeah and obviously the skill the mastery is not we're not debating any of that yeah but just for us the recording is maybe not our favorite it's not going to go on a dozen album because it's definitely got a desert island cover to it. So if you're going to a desert island

and you had no electricity, covers in the top 10. You might want to have the album. Covers in the top 10, 100%. And also... I think that's why it gets on the list, though. It's got a, it definitely has a vibe, but just for all of the Coltrane canon, it's... Yeah, compositionally, it's not... It's lower down the list for me. And we're just going to keep getting more and more controversial, Peter, because here's your next... I forgot all these. Disc that's not going on. Just play it. Don't let Ken Burns hear this. I enjoy this record.

It's just... I'm a fool to want you. It's Billy Holiday, Lady and Satin. Yeah, this, okay. I'm a fool. Let me explain. Okay, please do. I don't want to be disrespectful for Billy Holliday.

Okay, I love Billy Holiday. Again, caveat. All these artists are incredible. This record, I think, is overrated. Like, because they place this above, and to me, her voice is, I think, kind of obviously not in its best shape. of her career. There's a, the person, I mean, and I've heard people say like, oh, but the vibe and the

personality and the humanity. Yes, but it's also, I'm not crazy about the way this is recorded either, like the sound of it and stuff. And I know this is probably a remastered version. I just think it's an overrated record that's not capturing her at her best. So this is one where, that's hard because like this one shows up like almost as much as kind of blue on the list, which I think is an incredible record. This is an example of one I really, really like. I don't know if it would be, in my like top 10 on my desert island. I think I'm missing something on it.

Yeah. But I really love this record. Yeah. But I get it. Yeah. I can see, especially when you listen to some of our earlier stuff,

how this this might be, I get it, I get it. I get it. But man, it's heart wrenching. Okay. But I have one that's of similar.

My next one, I'm going to go with a similar, in a similar vein here. And again, artist I love, a series of albums that I don't care for.

Okay. It happened. I felt it happened. It's elephant. Gerald. I love Elefits Gerald, too. Not this Elephant's Gerald. These Verve songbook albums, and this might be a case for me of over exposure. I've just heard them so much.

Yeah. And I'm kind of, I'm not over it, but I don't need to listen to these anymore. I feel like. A little analysis, a little compatriot analysis. Yes, please do. I think that you're a bigger fan of Billy Holiday than Elephist Gerald in general. I'm a huge Sarvon. And Sarvon.

And Nancy Wilson. Those are my two. And Carmen McCrakeb. Okay, so maybe I'm wrong. I was going to say, do you feel that, especially on these songbook recordings, like Ella is so well-captured. It's too perfect. With Nelson Riddle and the whole thing is too, for me, it's just become so polished. And it's, I understand.

I love polished perfect albums. I have no problem with it. I understand why people love it. There was a time where I really was into it. But I think I've just kind of, something has shifted in the last 10 years from like, I get it. I've heard it so many times. I don't think I need it in my playlist. list, at least for the moment. That's good all change. I could be like an 80 year old man. This is all I

listen to. I don't know. One part I would agree is on the songbook recordings, like a lot of those songs are not that great. And Ella was like reading them down. Yeah. Literally reading them. They would write everything in C for her no matter what, because that's the way she wanted to read the thing. I believe. I hope I'm not screwing up this story. But like everything, no matter what key she was reading. And then she would cite read it some of these songs. She didn't know I mean, there's so many songs, the Cole Porter, the Gershwin, the Richard Rogers, Richard Rogers, Johnny Mercer. I would much rather listen to earlier stuff or live recordings or the such she did with

Louis Armstrong, right, than all of these big orchestra arrangements. And that kind of placed her in a certain, like with the arrangements, which are amazing. Yeah. It placed her in a certain, it was a certain placement for her to have to sing them to fit around them that was amazing. And of course, her voice. But I can see how that wouldn't be. Now, I would direct you towards and anybody to those really cool.

Like there's, she does, let's do it, let's fall in love. Which I don't even know. Is that Cole Porter? Like that, I can still remember how that. There's some gems on those songbook records for sure. 100%. But then look, Louis Armstrong and Ella Fitzgerald, summertime. I mean, unbelievable.

And this is one, I still would direct, especially young students who are just getting into these songs to these recordings as a resource to learn about the verse. Yeah. And the melody, because she's so precise. Right. And the arrangements are classic, obviously, you know, or at least have been around for so long that they're part of now the canon of the song. Yep. But yeah, for me, I could, you know, there's other things I'd like to listen to, I think. Got it.

Got it. Speaking of. Wait, is this mine or yours? It's both of us. Oh, it's one of us. That's a great drum sound. Great piano sound. Great playing.

I mean, great phrasing. It's winning. You love this. I do not love it. I like it. I like it a lot. But it's not going on your desert island. It's not going on my desert island because I think this is another situation where it's an incredible record, A level, but not A plus.

Oversaturated, possibly? Overrated, a little bit. And that doesn't mean that it, like, shouldn't be among the discussion of the great albums that are beloved. And some would take, like, if I was out on my boat going from my desert island to another's and floated by and saw this, I wouldn't be like, oh, how a ghost of you? to have that. It would make sense. It would make sense. I could totally understand because the quality is there.

There's certain albums, even by great artists that I would be like, really, that's, we were talking about one by Red Garland, who's one of our favorite pianists, but made an album that I would be like, really, that would be on your, so this is not one of those, I wouldn't say. But it's, yeah, I think it's a little bit overrated, so it doesn't make that top tier. I agree. It gains such fame and popularity and became so ubiquitous in the culture around the music. And listen, there's some...

And it's iconic. It's certainly iconic. Certainly iconic. The sound, of course, as you mentioned, the drums sound amazing. Yeah. The production is incredible. I think a lot of the songwriting is good, but I don't think, and again, I hate putting these caveats on it, but it's true.

I don't think it's as deserved as like this sort of legendary status as far as like game-changing composition or playing or anything like that. It's fun stuff that I can totally understand why it had such huge. I mean, it was on the top 10. The Billboard Pop Top 10. I don't know if the album or the tune. And it makes sense. Take five.

So I mean, I totally get it. And I'm not saying in it like smooth jazz or anything like that. I mean, this is legit. I think for a lot of players, especially of our generation, there might be a little bit of a version just because of how many gigs. Right. People have been like, hey, play take five. It's just, it's never the musician saying that.

No, it's never the musician saying that. It's someone walking by yelling at you. And it's, it's just run its course, I think, for, at least for me. and I think for you too. Yep. Okay, this one, this is one of mine, and this is not. He's getting his confidence level. This is going to ruffle a lot of feathers.

Your shoulders are slumping. It's going to ruffle a lot of feathers, but it's a good thing that we're going to a land of feathers. Oh, no, you didn't. We're going to bird. No, you didn't. This is, of course, it's heavy weather by weather report. This is a lot of people's favorite album of all the time.

Yeah. And this is one of it. I've never really checked out that much. Like, of course I've heard it. You never checked it out or you don't like it? I mean, or it's not going on your desert island. It's definitely not going on my desert island.

I love all the musicians on it. Obviously, Jock, Wayne, Joe, the whole crew. Amazing. Yeah.

But you're not the biggest weather report fan. You know what? I've just never connected to, honestly, I've never connected to Weather Report. I'm so into Herbie from that era. Right. And now keep.

Jared from that era. Interesting. I'm maybe saving a spot for Weather Report later, but it's never hit me in the gut. Like, it's never, like, been like, oh my God, that's my music. I don't know why. It just has never has. And it's embarrassing because a lot of people love it. A lot of people whose opinions about music I really respect and admire love it. It's just never connected to me as it has with other people. Yeah, no, no, no. I get it. And I mean, I think knowing your taste a little bit in terms of like, it's never in either or. And there's always a combination. But it, like, if it's Funky fusion versus Weather Report fusion

I hate to use Is that even a thing I mean this is funky on here too But like the Herbie Like a little bit more of a backbeat A little bit more of a Secrets Would that make it on to your Secrets?

Yeah Yeah that's not a difference Do you think it might It's a different sound And it's really like a red blue green I mean this is a quality record Secrets Manchild thrust Headhunters sunlight

It's all going on my death of The entire 70s Herbie catalog is going on my desert island. Right. Heavy weather? No, it's floating out the sea. Unrecognized. Yeah, you know what?

And again, it's classic for a reason. Obviously, the playing is amazing. Obviously, the compositions are incredible. I just, it just doesn't, hasn't hit me. It hasn't never hit me. It's all good. It's all good. Last one, and I think this is generational.

So this is a Japanese pianist name Rio Foucai. Fuku. I'm not sure how to pronounce his last name. Do you have that pulled up at all? Yeah. I don't know if this is correct. Riyu Fukui. Riyu Fikui.

Yofikui. And this became popular just in the last couple of decades. Yeah, this is kind of weird. It's just kind of percolate. I love how it sort of happened. I mean, unless somebody planted, it seems to be sort of an organic resurgence or really just a surgence. A surgence.

But it's on a lot of people's Desert Island jazz albums. Yeah. And it's this one. It looks quizzical. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. It's not. I mean, it's not.

It's very good playing. Is it? It's swinging. Yeah. I mean, it's on the spectrum. It's not bad. It's not medium. It's not great.

Maybe. I don't know. He's playing a standard. He's playing a tree. Like, if you walked in and heard that in a hotel lobby, you'd be like, wow, they sound good. But would you want to record that or listen to that over and over again? I don't quite get it. In the 70s.

And, I mean, if you're talking about like these kind of trio recordings in the 70s, you have Hank Jones and Keith Jarrett and. and Barry Harris and McCoy Tyner and a ton of people that are playing this kind of thing that feels maybe like Bill Evans, you know? Yeah. I don't know. Maybe there's some story that we don't know. You guys can please let us know in the comments on YouTube.

It's not trying to be disrespectful, but just don't really understand the hype behind that one. Right. So there you go. Teach his own. Again, our tastes are questionable. This was fun. I know.

We hardly ever. We don't do this again, i. I, e. never. We hate, we hate focusing on anything that's not positive, Peter. You and I really get stressed out by that. This is a good exercise for us to embrace a little bit of negativity. If this is as negative as we get. I know, because we caveat everything.

Everybody's so good, but obviously we don't. Colin Hawkins, I'm not saying he's not the greatest ever. He's the greatest ever. I just wouldn't bring it with me. If I had to bring five options. If I had to bring five options, if I brought six, it would be the sixth one. Don't worry. Along with Rio Fukui, we'll bring a ball.

Listen, man, we have to have. It's a big. We have to have taste. I mean, one day it's going to be like the point when we're sitting at a bar and actually talking. That's the goal. That's the goal. And trash talking. This is pretty close.

Yeah. But no, this is great. And I think it's just a reminder. I would encourage everybody embrace what you love. Like, and that's really what we rarely go negative because we're so focused on stuff that we like. A lot of times people in the comments are like, you know, what about them? What about, you know, the what about.

And some of that stuff we don't know or we don't. I mean, a very small group of that we hate or don't like. On that almost never happens. I mean, actually, none of this, I hate. Of course. Of course. Like, all of this is, there is music that I hate. 100%.

All of this is good music for sure, but it is, it's okay to have preferences. And there should be, like, we shouldn't all, like, you guys should not be coming. And I know you don't come to us to be like, what is the approved list and what is the not. No, and somebody might hear some of what we just did. Oh, I never heard Birdland before. That's amazing. You know, people love that kind of stuff. Also, to each his own.

It's okay for your preferences to change over time. All right. You know, there are, I think everything on this list at one point. Except kind of blue. That always stays on the island. That always stays on the island. Never let that bad boy off the island. No, but it's okay to like something at one point and then just not be that into it at another.

And as we're showing. And it's okay to be like heavy weather, which is one of the, I mean, the only thing that's controversial maybe about that, some people are like, well, that's not a jazz album. That's a fusion record. But if you consider that in this group of like, like that one would show up. Like, we're not just trying to be reacting. to stuff that's popular. And I think our love of kind of blue and putting that on the list would show that.

But it's just to be like honest to yourself. Like what do you really love? That's what it's about. Yeah, yeah. You know, what do you really love? Spend time with that. Keep learning and hearing other things and give yourself a chance

to absorb something new. Don't just have a knee-jerk reaction to it. But also like be open to what, to your own taste and discernment. It's like wine taste and some people like, well, I got to know what the score is. No, score's yourself. I mean, there's nothing wrong with hearing

somebody else's score. But if it tastes like pissed to you, give it a score, even if it's got a 94 from Robert Parker. So the thing to take away from is that you think that Coleman Hawkins. Don't even, don't hear it. Please. Love you, Coleman Hawkins. Till next time. You'll hear it.