You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - Tricks For Overcoming Hurdles

Episode Date: August 5, 2022

Adam and Peter dive into how to overcome mistakes on and off the bandstand. Have a question for us? Leave us a SpeakPipeCheckout courses from Adam, Peter and more at Open StudioLet us know what you think by leaving a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review, or head over to our YouTube channel.Follow us on Twitter | Instagram

What's up? You'll Hear It listeners. This is Caleb Kirby with You'll Hear It. We are running some topics back at you this Friday. And we're going to start with the topic of mistakes and how we can handle them on the band stage and off the band stage. I've got a few clips here from Adam and Peter talking about how exactly we can go forward and use those mistakes as opportunities, I would say. They do a great job of explaining that. And without further ado, I will introduce Adam and Peter at their most compilated. How quickly can you get away from the problem, from the mistake, from the unexpected, unforced error, whatever it is? Like a lot of people focus in on that and like, why did you do that? Well, why, you know, and start to try to fix that. And the fix is in what are you going to do? Now, you might have caused the problem and need to be the solution or it could be something.

It doesn't really matter, actually, because, you know, it depends if it's a solo thing, if it's a team, if you're in a band. Like, like, from that moment forward, it doesn't matter, though. It doesn't matter. Like, are you going to be part of the solution or be part of the problem? And a lot of people think that means, well, oh, I can, I can identify what the problem was. I didn't cause that problem. But if you're focusing on the problem after it happened, especially we talk about a musical contact. Well, it doesn't matter.

Time is moving all the time. Yeah. You know, even if you're playing Roboto. Yeah. Time, like, and guess what, there's no give back. You're now, takeovers. You're now extending the problem. doovers.

You're making the problem worse. Now you are part of the problem. Yeah. Anytime you're not focusing on what's before you, which is the music, you're making the music worse. Yeah. So if you're dwelling on the problem

or you're pissed off that the problem happened, you're going to lose out in the end. Like it's not going to be good. And I think that when we look at the musical context that we would find ourselves in if something goes around. Like you mentioned your drummer turning the beat over. So I kind of joke Hutchton and do that.

He didn't last night. We talked about the last episode. What a great performance. But believe it or not, I have seen, now this is super rare. This is more just because I played with him so much. I've seen Hutch turn the beat over, believe it or not. No.

Yes. But he, I mean, rare than any drumming. I played with some great drummers. Do I need to draw. I mean, listen, it happens to everybody. It happens to everybody. I've seen some of the best musicians in the world do it. But I'll say this.

Absolutely. But he becomes a part of the solution so quickly that most people wouldn't notice it. Yeah. Certainly not the audience. Even a lot of people that play with him. So, like, that's kind of, I think, speaking to what our point is. It's like, he doesn't get bogged down in like, no, I'm at the right place. Like, he's listening.

Find it. His listening is so attenuated to the moment that he is constantly thinking about right where we are and what's about to happen. Yeah. And so, and then his confidence and his skill level is such that he's not going to get rattled by making a mistake. You think he would. Like people think, oh, Greg Hutchinson must, because he's,

never makes mistakes. If he ever does, he gets rattled. No, not at all. Not at all. And the only reason you think he never makes mistake is because he not covers them up, but moves away from them so quickly and so effortlessly. And just goes into, well, let's figure this out mode. Yes. And then that happens. The more you do that, the better you get at figuring it out and fixing it and flipping it back or whatever it is you need to do. Yeah. And I think that, you know, great musicians, what I've identified and seen them do in these situations, is like kind of one of two big areas. One, they back off so that they can kind of hear what's happening as opposed to like forcing

their way through. Yeah. Whether they were part of the problem or not. Now, if you're a bass player or drummer or depending on the situation, you may need to, you can't just like pull the rug out from everybody. But I mean, you do something to back off and like listen and like make a quick, like, how can you make a decision on how to fix something if you can't listen and like identify where you're at.

You have to be there. Yeah. So they either do that or they have such a great feel for what the, what, what needs to be done anyway that they take control in a way that eases and and solves the problem for everyone immediately. Now, for drummers, that's a really important thing. Pianist too, like, you know, if you're a horn player, sometimes you don't have sort of the power of what's happening in the arrangement to do that. But at any time, but maybe you do, you know, at certain points. But I think we have to all be open to that moment.

And again, it's not about like, okay, well, you turn the beat over. So you fix it. I hate that kind of. I mean, nobody says that. but some people act like that. Yeah. Some people act like that. It's not a contest for this.

Because of the low-level musicians, really. Yeah. No matter how good they are. If you can't, if you can't be part of the team like that and a problem solver, I guess. Yeah. I mean, I think that's really the key is don't fixate on the problem. You know, just, you know, again, stay present. That's what we've been saying a lot of lately.

Yeah. Stay present. Work on the solution. And really, like, so speaking of that, that Betty Green Hodge McBride concert, there was a moment I heard, actually, last night, where it was after one of Benny's solos and the crowd was erupting as they did after almost all the solos

from everybody. And there were some, I forget which tune it was, but there was some kind of complicated hit that they were doing as part of the arrangement, you know, part of the form. And the applause was such

that you could tell they couldn't hear what was, because it was also a very soft thing that was happening. Yeah, yeah. And then Hunch and McBride kind of missed the hit a little bit and they looked at each other and smiled.

Yeah, and it immediately locked up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know what? No one said? was, oh, I can't believe, those two great players just missed that hit. Right. It was like a natural thing where two people talking will sometimes talk over each other or like, you know, misspeak or be like, no, no, you go. You know, this is like a natural human thing.

And when you're playing improvised music, that's the beauty of it. It was actually a beautiful moment. Yes. And it turned into a human moment. A human moment. But you could also tell what the players like it gave them some energy. So I would also recommend like not just to not dwell on the mistake that was made or the disaster that's happening, but really embrace the recovery.

Yeah. You know what I mean? And let the energy of that like, oh, this is kind of exciting. It's an opportunity kind of. Some weird, like a cool little pathway. Yeah, some weird shit just happened. Like, what do you want to do with it? How do you handle mistakes?

Um, okay. Wow, we're just going to jump right in. I hear you. Very challenge. He handled them very, very poorly. Yeah. Tantrums galore. You know what?

This has been an evolution for me. really since I first started playing music. So darn near my entire life. And that is more like, yeah, how do I handle them going from where I used to be, which was probably like shame, shamefully, you know, to where I am now, where, I mean, to be honest, like, I enjoy finding out, like solving the challenge of how I'm going to profit from my mistakes. Like how am I going to get better?

What am I going to learn from them? That does not mean that I try to make mistakes. It does not mean that I try to be ill prepared so that I'm going to make mistakes so that I can grow. But it does mean that I lean into challenging myself and what I'm going to do, be it in a solo or maybe to perform something that I'm not 100% under my, like I don't feel like I have to be 100% prepared. I do want to be like 97% prepared though.

but like put myself into situations I'm open to putting myself into situations where there's probably going to be some mistakes not catastrophic mistakes but I really embrace this idea that as artists being an artist is very different than being a neurosurgeon

and that our mistakes like a small percentage mistake is not going to kill somebody it's not going to and so like but the the beautiful things that can happen when we are open to going for things that may cause some quote unquote mistakes, but also might cause some beauty or ultimately

the ability for our story and our song to make it out into the world and hopefully be pleasurable and edifying to some listeners, that that risk is worth taking. Now, you know, a neurosurgeon, you know, doing the most precise of brain surgery doesn't have that ability. So it's a very different mindset. But I feel like jazz musicians and just musicians in general, like we too many times take on this that same kind of neurosurgeon mentality of like we have to be these precision machines and the closer that you get to that the better and really you know the the the great jazz musicians that I admire didn't play like that and it's very easy to be like John Coltrane didn't make mistakes he was perfect and from this from the standpoint of like I can't point to something and say like oh look at that

horrible mistake as in the mistake is that it sounded bad or it sounded ugly or he's playing a wrong note or whatever well I can point out where he's playing a wrong note You know, and, but it's not because he's coming from a place of like beauty and inclusion and, and, and, and really trying to make it over that mountain top to that next mountain. And, you know, it's that spirit of adventure and all those different things that that mistake becomes this thing of beauty. You know, it's like looking in nature. It's like there's some mistakes. There's some three-legged sheep and some weird stuff out there. But, you know, it's, it's all beautiful. And the creator created it and all this kind of good stuff. So I think the more we can kind of embrace that. And so like that's, you know, my approach to mistakes has evolved over the years more to try to embrace that. Now, it's still hard. Like, you know, you're playing in a situation. And if your mistakes makes you feel like you weren't able to put your best foot forwards,

like if they're debilitating to the point, that's hard to deal with. And I think that's still the hardest thing for me. And that usually comes out of like the kind of mistakes that were due to lack of preparation or lack of adequate preparation. And I try to avoid being in those situations. but it's inevitable it's going to happen as a professional musician, especially as you start to work more and have some more success, you're put in more high-pressure situations, more situations that you may not have the optimal amount of time,

just do the life and family and all these things to be able to prepare. So you've got to try to, you know, just pull yourself up quickly when those mistakes come and get to the good stuff, not to cover up the mistakes, but to mitigate them. That is next level with this. Like kind of level one is not looking backwards, not blaming, whatever.

It's like level two is like, be a part of the solution as quickly as possible. Maybe level three is like, you know, a smile is just a frown turned upside down. No, you can take that energy. How do we take this as a positive thing? You could take that energy of the mistake and turn it into something positive

as a building block for something interesting. Yeah, and I think for, you know, what you saw with that, and I think I even remember the moment, you know, 99% of the audience is not going to know that because like, you kind of have to almost be a musician. So what that becomes a beautiful thing,

it's like a communication, like, but 100% or 99% of the audience will notice them kind of connecting in a human, which they love. It's like, man, you guys seem like you're just having so much fun and you're talking to each other up there through the instrument. It doesn't matter how much you plan, how much you practice, how many voicings you know. Once you get into a performance situation, you know what they say. Stuff happens. And there's even another way that they say it sometimes. Yeah. And so it's not about, you know, are things going to go wrong?

Things are going to go awry at some point. and then it becomes how do you respond all right that'll be it for us over here you'll hear it thanks for checking us out and again sign up for os pro our sister sponsor mother company and uh if you want any more information on that just go to ospro dot com and you'll find what you're looking for thanks