You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - Unintended Benefits of Practicing in 12 Keys

Episode Date: January 13, 2023

Adam and Peter discuss the unintended benefits of practicing everyday in 12 keys and what you may not expect to get out of it. Check out Peter's video about to play Any Song In Any Key!Want to follow along Peter's 30 day practice challenge? Check this link.Have a question for us? Leave us a SpeakPipeCheckout courses from Adam, Peter and more at Open StudioLet us know what you think by leaving a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review, or head over to our YouTube channel.Follow us on Twitter | Instagram

Hey, Adam. What's up? We're going to talk about some unintended benefits. What about intended consequences? Well, that would be good, but that would be the converse of the unintended benefits. But we're going to have a little bit of fun today. I could use some fun. Okay, let's do it.

I'm Adam Manus. And I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to the You'll Hear Podcast. Real Talk from Two Players. That's a new one for you. Real Talk from Two Players. Yes, because that's what we do here. Is this Real Talk?

We're players. Yeah. Forget about jazz, pianists. musicians and all that. We're playing. No, I have a couple questions. Okay. So real talk. Does that mean we're talking about anything for real? Well, we're talking about a specific subject as we do. We're very good at staying on the script. We're also very good at leaving the script. Even burning the script. We're crumpling the script. Shredding the script. Hiding the script. No, actually, this is a very, I think, intentional episode today. But we like to keep it real here. We do. We don't just like take the stuff and regurgitate it. So, you know, it's new year, new me, new you. new podcast. No, we're anti-New Year New Meeks.

Oh, that's right. No, but I just, you know, I like to try out the different slogans. Oh, we all know. We all know the slogan. We'll see how it goes. Let us know in the comments. If you're not on the YouTube, that's fine. But go over there to leave a comments.

I have one more question. Yes. What is the slogan again? Real talk from two players. Oh, did you write it down? I wrote it out. You look, look, you want to see how I sell it? Okay, it is.

Okay, it is play as. It is. Right. Because we're piano players. Right. Real talk from two players. What is it? I'm not a player. I just crush a lot. That's how I feel sometimes about the piano. Exactly. Now, I'm excited about today's episode, man. You've been doing this 30-day challenge.

Yes. And it's been a big... It's a 30-day practice challenge. You did this right before the pandemic, from what I remember. We were in New Orleans. I remember you just kind of find pianos in the hotel in New Orleans at the Jen conference trying to keep your 30-day challenge going. Yep. And that was really great. What was that one? Was that a similar thing? It was the same, well, it was the same concept, same guardrail, same kind of construct, which was... Well, break it down. Practicing something, anything. Well, I would give that to folks as a suggested thing. But you would practice that phrase or that scale of that line in all 12 keys every day.

And this year, there's been a little bit of confusion because some folks are like, oh, wait, do I practice that each day in a different key? Well, that would be nice, right? Yeah. But it's not that easy. But it's not that hard easy. I kind of vary it. But basically, I'll give a phrase, like, I think today is... Maybe don't play it sloppy like I just did.

Did you hear that? I did. So the thing is, one, two, three, four. Bo-bo-do-be-bo-do-do-le-le-Bob. So we're kind of thinking about, of course, that's in C-major, right? And then you would go through on this one. Yeah, it starts on the five. And then minor third, major third.

And that's the only non-tied diatonic part. What is it? Up to the ninth. Yep. You got it. Great. And then we go through all 12 keys. And like I like to vary this up.

This is really however you want to do it. Exactly. Perfect four. I don't know. For this one, it just seems natural to kind of go circle of force. Cycle of force? It's because you're starting on the fifth. So when you start, when you're in the key of C

and then you want to go up a fourth, you start from the key that you're coming from. The five becomes the one becomes the five. I love that, just that minor third in there. There's that one little no makes a huge difference. Yeah. that's great and then so from here if I want to start on b flat yeah it's what was the tonic of f now becomes the starting point for the next key if you're going up a fourth right yep one becomes the five so so super important so you might play this and what's great about these everything

you're doing too with these is you can play them over different chords like you could play this if you go back to c you could play it over c major yeah you can also play it over the relative minor a minor yeah it'll work on like an a minor seven Yeah. I mean, you could actually do it over like a 25. Right? It'll work. Oh, yeah, 1625. Yeah. Just anything in the general diatonic key will work. That's really great, man. Yeah, and that's kind of going more advanced for a lot of folks just getting this line and then taking it through. Maybe the first couple of keys wouldn't be that difficult, but as you move through, it really gets you to adjust.

And that's what we're going to talk about, sort of the unintended benefits of this. and the great thing about practicing in all 12 keys and using that as sort of your restriction, your guardrails, your restricted practice. The restricted part is not the keys. You're playing them on all keys is the specific line that you're playing. So it gets you to think about the construction,

the architecture, kind of your signposts within every key that you might not think about it. So like if we jump up to G-flat, there's a couple things that we're still thinking about what is the five, you know, up to that seven to the ninth and then that minor third, major third. Everything's the same.

Yeah, that's tough. Fingering. Fingering. Definitely one of the unintended benefits. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, so let's maybe talk about, so we should break down the architecture of this line and kind of demonstrate how you can do that with any line.

Yeah. Let's talk about the unintended benefits of putting something in 12 keys. I would say, first of all, what are the intended benefits? The intent of benefits are that you practice in keys that you might. not be familiar with. So like G flat, right? It's very rare that you might play something in a like a bebop context like this line I would say has, you know, notes of that, you know, you would be playing a 1625 or a rhythm changes in G flat, right? Or a blues in G flat. That's not something that you would really do very often. So an intended consequence of practicing

everything in 12 keys is that, yes, you're more familiar with G flat. I think that's definitely one of them. The other one would be, I think the would be the act of like transposition, you could say? You know what I mean? But what would be the unintended benefits of doing this? Like what is something that people are getting that they might not realize they're getting? Yeah, well, so you hit on one of them fingering, certainly for pianists, but I would say

for every instrument that does, you know, bass, guitar, trumpet, you know, there's, like, you're having to navigate the same line. And you could think, okay, well, you just adjust for that. But if you're thinking about it, I try to place these every day in the context. of some kind of feel and groove. So the idea is like, one, two, a one, two, three, four. So we're starting in C, yeah.

But you're sort of getting what the phrasing, that sort of bebop phrasing. So the challenge with the fingering becomes not just how do you get through the line. And you can certainly can and should slow these down to wherever you can execute them. But it's not just being able to play the notes. At first it will be. But it's also about being able to play. So like when I was going up without going under to four and five there.

and it's very difficult to execute that beb phrasing on that line if you don't change the finger. So that's like making those fingering adjustments on the fly. And look, these are going by every day. You don't need to work out the fingering and I'm not going to give you the fingering. The idea is like if you're improvising these lines and you hear that in these new keys, how do you make those adjustments? Not so that the fingering is perfect, but so that you catch the key parts of that phrase with some fingering that can bring out that phrase.

Yeah, definitely the technical aspect of this is, unparalleled. If you want to get good at playing, like, how you play the instrument, doing things in 12 keys is the best way to do it because it forces you to have to solve these problems that you, I mean, if we're being honest, if you don't work on it intentionally, you'll just avoid when you improvise, right? It's like, I can't do that in G flat. I don't need to know how to do that. Or I'm too scared to attempt it because I'm on stage or whatever. Like this forces you to solve technical problems that need solving. You also mentioned like hearing it and I would say that's probably one of the biggest unintended benefits is that it's

ear training because we're not transposing you don't want to think like up a fourth right that's the that's not how to think about this or however you do it but you want to try to hear it from the from the original example why doesn't it sound the same in f as it did in c and this is why you have to push through these a little bit you don't want to like wait and sit and work them out or just look at the I mean for open studio members we do have a PDF available for each day I will say that by popular yeah a little controversial but no no it's super helpful especially if you don't have a lot of time on these but if you have time the best ways is to push through a little bit ahead of your comfort zone so that you should be making and this is the way i practice this comes out of like

still the way that i practice so i know this from personal experience and i know how much it's helped me but you need to push through where you're making a few mistakes so in other words i would want to play this at a tempo that really causes me to have to play play and sort of finger without being able to stop and think. If I play it at, first of all, I'm not really playing with a groove or a kind of feel that I want to do it. And I'm also playing it slow enough that I know I can pretty much, you know, easily get through it without having any problems,

without having any fingering snafus. But the way I practice this would be, and actually I do this. For a little more challenge, sometimes I just go left-hands. That was kind of a funky left-hand finger if you could see that. But I wouldn't sit on that too much. then I'm going right into. I mean, this is like them that you know when you're having to really pay attention.

And if you're making a few mistakes, you know, that's good. That is good. That's when you're training your ear. And see, just there, I had the thumb on the B flat, and that's already messing me up. So I go to two. Ah, I didn't play the minor third, but I heard it. Right. Yeah, the ear training here is so important.

Yeah. So you want to be pushing through a little bit quicker than your comfort zone. Well, and as you added that left hand, And it really got me thinking about one of the huge benefit of this really, and like the thing that's sort of baked into it that you can't recreate any other way, is that it forces you out of your comfort zone. Yes. Right. So some things, like you could come up with a line and it probably lays really well in your hand, maybe in your right hand. Yeah.

When you start adding it in your left hand, when you start taking it through all 12 keys, that naturally is going to be hard. Unless you're a guitarist. Well, yeah. No, it's going to be harder for you. And I think this is where a lot of people fall off here. and they might not understand the context of it. So, like, the pain of it being difficult is the learning process. That is what you want to feel.

No pain, no gain. So you have to sort of, like, frame it as an analogy that gets used about this, especially with, like, personal growth or whatever, is that pain is necessary, and you have to be able to frame it, like, it should be hard, I should fail at this. So a great example is, like, if you woke up in the middle of the night and you felt like, it feels to deadlift 400 pounds. Yeah. Like at 3 a.m.

you just woke up. You feel like you're in the middle of a deadlift to failure, right? That would be an emergency. It would be a medical emergency. Yeah. But as you're practicing lifting weights or trying to get more weight on, you have it in the frame of mind of like, this is going to be uncomfortable because it has to be.

That's why it's good, right? So make sure that you have this frame. A lot of people want to stay in their comfort zones as they're learning things, but that's not how you learn. You have to sort of force yourself into harder and harder things. Taking it through 12 keys should be difficult. It should make you feel uncomfortable. It should be a challenge.

And that's why it's good. Exactly. And I like that you kind of pivoted there from pain to discomfort. And that's the key. Of course. Yeah, not physical pain. That's not what I'm talking. Right.

But even at the piano, that can be a thing. Certainly with lifting weights, like we want to, like we, I made a joke, you know, no pain, no gain. Actually, that's not the way we want to approach this. It's more like no discomfort. Right. No gain. We want to get out of our comfort zone.

We don't want it, certainly not to be physically painful, but we also don't want to be moving through so much that we're slopping our way through it. A few little mistakes that we stop and correct, that means you're, it's like the pacing of it. It's just like you don't want to add so many weights that you're, like, you know, harming. I mean, well, the thing is you do have to harm, kind of break down your muscles and then they rebuild. But it's like, how do you get into that zone where it doesn't break you down so that you have to take too many days off where you're actually injuring yourself? But that's similar to what's going on in our brains when we're learning things. We have to carve these neural pathways, right?

These new networks. Did you just say neural pathways? Get me excited when you say to that. Come on now. I know this guy loves that. But you do. You can't just think your way, okay, I'm going to play this lick in G flat. Yeah.

Like you have to be able to develop some discomfort, fail, relearn it, forget it. You know what I mean? Relearn it again. It takes like several times of learning it, forgetting it. And great musicians, people who are really good at learning stuff quickly, they do that at a very quick pace where they'll learn it, forget it, learn it, forget it, learn it, forget it, learn it. Oh, that process is so valuable.

It hurts. It's hard on your ego, too. It is, it is. But, I mean, look, we're doing this in the practice room on our own. And don't look at this as, you know, I want to share. And I mean, people are sharing their practice challenge, which is great. And I love seeing that. But don't feel like what you have to share has to be perfect.

You know, it really should be about the process. That's why, on some of mine, I leave in if I make a mistake or something, because I want people to see. This is the way I practice it. And we don't, there's a difference between sloppy. and being on that edge of discomfort where you really have to focus in because that's probably the biggest unintended benefit

of this kind of practice and going through all 12 keys, taking the same thing, but pushing through to those uncomfortable areas, it gets us to think on our feet in a way, think lighter on our feet, just like we need to do when we're improvising. It's like the difference between someone that can do

and they can rip through that. It's like, we'll take it up a half step. Can you do the same thing? No, you can't. And I'd like to say that's a great demonstrating of playing sloppy, but I'm actually trying to play that. So it's like, now what do I do? I don't take this down to like, or maybe I do take it there. But I don't take it down to like, wait, what did I play here exactly?

It's like, no, it's a new thing. How can I? How do I get my fingers adjusted? How do I get my ears adjusted to hearing that to really, you know? So I played that E at first, but I heard it, you know. I mean, I can feel myself on that edge, and that's where the development happens. So important. And then you're also, I think probably the last huge benefit is that you're learning how to learn things in the key of music, which is a term that you mentioned in one of your videos.

Very popular video, by the way. Congrats on this one. Hit video for Open Studio called How to Learn Anything in Any Key, how to practice. What is it? How to play in every key. Something. We'll link to it below. Title's not important.

What is important is you mentioned something that you had heard from Elth Marcellus or someone. Alice Marcellus. Possibly Nicholas Payton. Via Nicholas Payne. Via Nicholas Payton. O.G. That you want to learn things in the key of music, right? That you don't know it unless you know it in the key of music, meaning that it doesn't

matter what key is in. You can figure it out. You can't do that again just by thinking about it, by conceptualizing it. You actually have to experience it and practice it. And so this practice of taking whatever you're working on, whether that's a bit of melodic content or even voicings or melodies to songs to every key is the only way to really practice things in the key of music, and that's how you get better at it, so that it's, if you want to do things like take your, you know, what was it, the different keys, you know

how to do that pretty effortlessly, right? At least you know what the process is going to be like. The more you do it, the easier it gets. Absolutely. It's called How to Play Any Song in Any Key. That's a great title. Memorable. Yeah.

And it really, I mean, some of people would be like, oh, while you didn't teach, I taught you the system on how to do that. Yeah. And big shout out and reps to the great Ellis Marcellus for teaching me that. And, you know, it's also like when you say things like that, practice in the key of music, practice in all keys. These are aspirational things, but they are achievable. Like, everybody can practice today, you know, the phrases I'm giving. And you can check out the 30-day challenge on, it's on my Instagram.

It's on, we'll have links below, Instagram, YouTube. I think it might even be on the talks as the kids are some of tiki-talkies. But the idea is that, like, there's always something we can practice if that's a major scale. A lot of us need to practice that, you know? But, you know, if you can do one thing, if you practice one way, this, I think, is the most important thing. If you have a little bit of time to take it through several keys. Because, you know, most of the music that we play has to deal with, like, all 12 keys. You know, we're not playing three chord.

But in jazz, you know, we play all the notes. Twelve notes of the scale, dip shit. That three chords, I know. exactly John Goodman is that a new button you have there sir? That's a new but I know it's a little aggressive you're going to hear a lot of this excuse the foul language

hide you children hide your wife we got Adam Matt's got a new button I think we should beep that at some point but it's from a great film called the Wait play it one more time Wait say where it's from But in jazz you know It's from inside Lewin Davis

The Cohen brothers film John Goodman plays a jazz musician It's about a folk musician And John Goodman plays a pretty horrible person Who happens to be a jazz. I think I have a way we can beat it out. But in jazz, you know, we play all the notes.

Twelve notes of the scale, dip shit. Not three chords on a ukulele. Is that your beep? I try it one more time. I can do better. I got the timing now. Go ahead. But in jazz, you know, we play all the notes.

12 notes of the scale, dip shit. Sorry, I'm late. I'm late. We'll get it. Three chords on an ukulele is my favorite. I love that. Cool. Well, this is great, Peter.

Thanks very much, man. And go check out Peter's 30. Day Challenge. We're going to link to that. We're also going to link to his video, how to play any tune in any key. What was it called? How to play any song in any key. How to play any song in any key. Caleb's going to put those in the show notes, so you can link to both of those things. Sounds good. Until next time. You'll hear it.