You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - Unsolved Mysteries: An Early Keith Jarrett Influence?

Episode Date: December 18, 2023

In this episode, Adam and Peter delve into the intriguing musical journey of John Coates Jr., exploring the possibility of his influence on the legendary Keith Jarrett. Join us as we unravel the connections between these two accomplished piano players and appreciate Coates' distinctive style that may have left an indelible mark on Jarrett's own musical evolution.↓ Links from the pod ↓John Coates Jr. Music:Discogs SongwhipEthan Iverson's Article referencing John Coates Jr.Keith Jarrett InterviewHave a question for us? Leave us a SpeakPipeCheckout courses from Adam, Peter and more at Open Studio🎹 Head over to our YouTube channel for a better look 👀.Follow us on Instagram

I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to The Yule here. Jazz Talk, Jazz Talk. Jazz Talk. Coming at you. Jazz Play. Jazz Talk. You know what I miss about coming at you is I used to say coming at you. It's sponsored by Open Studio.

Okay. Well, let's go back to it. Jazz Talk sponsored by Open Studio. Jazz Talk. That's so much. It's good. Go to Open StudioJazz.com. We have always a lot of exciting things happening at the end of the year.

We have some great New Year specials coming up. And it just, you know, it's a cool time to come into the community. Because if you're in the northern Hemisphere, We're going into a new year. Actually, how I think of it, if you're in the southern hemisphere, it's going into a new year. We're going to a new year anytime.

You know why? Because we used to the Greco-Roman calendar. I was going to say the Greco-Romans. Yeah, thank you to the, uh, to the, shout out to the Greeks. For all the, uh, the calendars. Yeah. So, uh, okay, this is an interesting episode today,

because full disclosure, we've done 37 takes of this. There's been some ebb and flows. There's been some, there's been some, uh, there's been some, there's been some interesting. times that we've had. And we've got 17 minutes to get this in. So let's do it. But I am

stoked about this. Yeah. So this happened. This is something we've been sort of simmering on here at Open Studio. Cloying around. We've been pawing at very gently for the last cup. Bear pawing. Wait, I think I've got you. No, I missed it.

We've been bear pawing this for a couple of months here. Ever since we had the Great Aaron Parks in our studio. By the way, was that intro? Were we supposed to be playing like Keith Jarrett? No, man. Kind of. We're supposed to be playing like John Coates Jr.

Oh, got you. Yeah. But, no, we were hanging out with Aaron Parks, who was... Like six weeks ago. Yeah, I dropped that name. Yep. Boom. Like six, seven, eight weeks ago or something.

He was here in the studio recording a new course for Open Studio. Be on the lookout for that. If you're an open studio member, you'll see that in dashboard very soon. Yep. And we were just talking about Keith Jarrett. Yeah. As three jazz pianists might be doing over lunch. Yeah.

And he kind of out of nowhere was like, well, you guys have heard John Coates Jr. I think he was even kind of like, oh, well, you know, that was some coats. And I was like, wait, what? He was like a magic coat. Yeah, like Peter's antenna's like, yeah, came up. But I mean, he, but then he kind of looked at us like, oh, you don't know. He got excited, Aaron, that we didn't know about the Coats, a Jarrett connection, alleged unsolved mystery.

And then he connected his phone to our Bluetooth speakers in the studio. And he played us this. It's from 1974. This is the jazz piano of John Coates Jr. It was so good, man. And if you're thinking like I am, it sounds familiar. A little bit, Keith, Keith, Jared, ask.

That's Peter Martin as well. Now. So what is it about that that is evocative of Keith's there? You know, there's all these sort of like plagiarisms, right? There's also all of that stuff. There's plaguel, plagiarity. But that's a little Vince Goralty too in there. The little Vince Goraldi.

The thing is, is when you sort of dig deep into. who John Coates Jr. was. So this is all happening at... Clue number one coming up. This is all at the Deerhead Inn, which famously Keith Jarrett made a record live. A wonderful record. In Allentown, apparently...

Hometown of Keith Jarrett. Klee Jinnett. Clue number two. Keith played drums in John Coats Jr.'s Cue number three. He was a teenager. For two years, he played drums behind John Coates Jr. playing piano. And there's the similarities between the two

that specific sound. Obviously, Keith Jarrett has a world of sound at his fingertips. There's not just one influence, but it's hard to pinpoint a more like, that's that thing that Keith does than this. And then there is like some speculation like Ethan Iverson has a blog,

a blag, is it a Christmas vlog? Is he doing blogmas? Is he doing blogmas? No, I don't think so. No, but about just a brief mention of this and kind of alluding to well, did John Coats steal this back from Keith this sound? Because there's an early John John Coates Jr. record in 1956, I've not heard, I can't find that apparently it sounds less like this and more like just the typical. So it's a question of is the tail wagging the dog. And I think we said that they were actually pretty close in age.

John Coates is seven years older. So okay, so okay. So a little bit separated. It was seven years old. He passed away a couple years ago. Right. But not that long ago. Like what, five years ago or something. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah. No, it's super interesting. And to me it's not a big deal of like, wait, who's happening. Who's got. It's very interesting. It's interesting though. It's just so exciting to hear. I think probably it's a little bit overstated in terms of just like this is where Keith got all his stuff because that just plays into like he played with him when he was younger. But like we say that we haven't seen any evidence that Coates was playing in this way that he did in the mid-70s, which obviously there's a lot of documented recordings of Keith by this point. Yeah, by 74 are playing like that. You know, with the American quintet, I think already maybe not the European, but I mean like the solo piano stuff facing you. Yeah. You know, we're almost getting into Coln concert, getting close. I mean, there's all this stuff, so Coates would have heard that. But it's definitely, they're from the same place, which is, that is interesting that there's a sound out of this place.

That's what's cool about it, like the Texas Tenor things. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. What is this, the Poconos? Yeah, this is the Poconos. Yeah, this is the part of Pennsylvania. There's a great president Biden, Joe Biden, Uncle Joe, as we call him in our house. Shout out Joe Biden.

I don't know. If you're listening, Joe. He had a great quote. He's from Pennsylvania. Yeah. And he said, the thing you got to. to know about Pennsylvania is you have Pittsburgh in the way I'm paraphrasing in the west you have Philadelphia in the east and in between you have Alabama that's

correct that's the way oh it's correct that's correct Joe's from Scranton Scranton yeah yeah also John Coates Jr. lived in Scranton I think he spent the last part of his life in Scranton yeah I think it's interesting under Mifflin is based there of course not not you know is there like is this like Keith's influence or whatever more just like there's a sound from this area yeah between these two musicians and also what's beyond, right? And this is not to be under solo, Peter.

John Coast Jr. is bad. Yeah. Like, he is incredible. Bad isn't good. Like, let's listen a little more. Jazz talk alert. This is again, from the jazz piano of John Coats.

You could find this on Spotify or anywhere, but let's listen to this. This is, um, love is enough, I believe. Love is enough. All that two-handed stuff? It's like, it's a little bit, obviously like a little bit rougher around the edges than

all these. hits here and Key's playing during this time. But I think it's someone interesting. I've been listening to him since Aaron Park's hipters to him. And I really like his playing. I like his whole concept. He is, I went on a little deep dive

this morning of YouTube. There's one video of him, which is pretty cool, actually. I've been playing solo piano. But a lot of the videos that come up when you YouTube, John Coach, Jr., are, he was a prolific choral arranger as well. So his arrangement of Amazing Grace, he'll find like,

30 versions on YouTube of and it all is crediting him as the ranger. So I'm just going to read here from it. Maybe I'll throw it up here just for fun. Boom. So this is from Ethan Arverson's blog. An obscure pianist and look, I'm jumping into this. So we'll link to this whole article. He also has a great famous interview with Keith Jarrett,

one of the best I would say. We'll link to that as well. But an obscure pianist named John Coates Jr., who Jarrett heard locally growing up around Allentown, especially at the Deerhead Inn, was a significant influence. so this is Ethan saying that I believe um

coach didn't record anything resembling countrified piano I love that phrase I mean which is what that is all of this like right but and it's it's for another episode is what's in between country can we try to we try to give because we just played the same shit

in two different keys but that's nothing countryer than playing in two keys at once bi-tonal country um anyway we'll have another episode about the difference between country and blues that'll be fun uh coast didn't record anything resembling

countryified piano until some years after jaret was a star certain tracks from the jazz piano of john coach junior is that what you were just playing yeah the nineteen seventy four are appallingly similar to jaret however i thought that said appealingly similar i is appallingly uh however the story is not that clear people argue about whether Coates changed his style to be more like his student or not. Amazing. Interesting that he refers to him as a student. This is all Ethan Iverson. On portrait, the 56 Coates trio disc with Wendomarshal

and Kenny Clark ever heard of him. Kluke. The music is normal piano jazz without much personality. That's so Ethan Iverson. Normal piano jazz without much personality. If Coates somehow had beat his peers to the punch and was starting to play in a simpler

more Moes Allison, Vince Garab, Moles Allison, that's another one. Yeah, I should have mentioned. Before Jarrett left town in 63, then the influence is very literal indeed. White Boy Blues. I'm not sure if white is really a fair word. Whatever you want to call it, songwriters, Bob Dylan, Lenin McCarty, offered slightly syncopated even eighth songs that exploded everywhere that was on a jukebox,

et cetera, et cetera. Anyway, that's just, you know, I think an interesting take. Ethan Iverson usually is pretty spot on with his analysis and his historic delvings. into these things. Either way, it's a very fun musician to check out. And if you like that 70s Keith, countrified thing, you're going to like John Coates Jr. And yeah, I encourage you to go take a little deep dive on your own. And if you don't have time to go down to Alabama for some country music, go to Central Pennsylvania, see what you can find. By the way, there's probably some musicians out there that would have gone to the deer head in to hear John Coates Jr. a lot that

listen to this podcast. I'd love to hear how Keith Jarrett sounded on drums. Oh, that would be great. if you heard Keith on drums in that trio, or if you just would go and check out John Coates Jr. at the Deerhead Inn, comment on here if you have any stories or if you have any insight into the whole situation. But before you comment, we're going to need you to sign an affidavit swearing that you were there

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