You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - What Genre Is Tower Of Power??

Episode Date: May 19, 2025

We hand the mic to Kirk Hamilton from the Strong Songs podcast to help us break down the groovy 1973 self-titled release: Tower of Power. We unpack what makes this Oakland funk outfit a generational institution – from David Garibaldi’s precision drum fills and Rocco Prestia’s machine-gun bass lines to what may be the tightest horn section of all time. We dig into standout tracks like “What Is Hip?” and “Soul Vaccination,” spotlight Lenny Pickett’s wild ascent from TOP to SNL, and detail some funny production quirks (like why the drums are panned hard left). It’s a full-course tour through funk, soul, and brass brilliance – with a healthy side of stank face.Check out the Strong Songs podcast → https://strongsongspodcast.com/ABOUT OPEN STUDIO------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------As the premier online jazz education platform, with an ever-expanding course library and 20,000+ members, Open Studio (OS) has everything you need to excel and thrive on your jazz journey.Featuring everything from beginner to advanced lessons, engaging courses from A-list instructors, step-by-step curriculum, real-time classes and a thriving and incredibly supportive community, OS is the perfect platform to level up your jazz playing, whether you’re a total beginner, or an advanced pro-level improvisor.

I'm Adam Menace. And I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to The You'll Hear at Podcasts. Music, Explored. Explored, brought to you today by Open Studio. Go to Open Studio. Go to Open Studio jazz.com for, oh, your jazz lesson needs. Absolutely.

What's up? There's some friends to start. A little bit friends. It's getting blue already. Yeah, you know. How you doing? How you doing? Man, good.

I'm excited about today's episode. Do you know what we're doing? Or do you just roll up in here and look at your nose at the last minute? I've been looking forward to this one. This is a little TOP, a little tower of power. I was weaned on some tower of power. Were you? Yeah.

So you think you're an expert on it? No, I wouldn't say that. Why? Do we need an expert on it? I think we may. I mean, this is great. This is actually the Tower of Power. We're focusing on their self-titled album, which was not their first album, but this is Tower of Power, Tower of Power.

This is when they really hit their stride. The Self-Titled 1973 Tower of Power album. But I do think we need to bring in some reinforcements. Something just, I mean, you're great. I'm pretty good. Something a little bit stronger? I don't know. Okay.

Somebody that's stronger. Like, how much are you benching currently? I'm doing better, but I got a little shoulder in your wife. Is there a bench limit for this, some kind of minimum? Well, we just need somebody stronger. I don't know if you're familiar with the podcast Strong Songs. I love that show. There's a gentleman out of the West Coast, a little bit north of Tower of Power,

about, I don't know, 6, 700 miles by the name of Kirk Hamilton. Could we get them on the line? Could we bring them into the pod? What's up, Kirk? That wasn't a forced intro at all. What's up, Kirk? I'm so happy to be here. and so excited to talk about Tower of Power with both of you.

Yeah, I thought, you know, let's start off by just maybe telling our own stories with Tower of Power because I mentioned that I was weaned on him. So my dad, huge Tower of Power fan. Oh, nice. Shout out to my Uncle Joe. Actually, he's my cousin, but he's about my dad's age. Is Uncle Joe buried to Aunt Linda Miami, change? No, he's not.

Okay. We call them Joey Joe. And he was a huge Tower of Power fan. And when I was a kid, would, like, send me Tower Power CDs and make me mixtapes. And so I really grew up with this stuff. Kirk, what's your relationship with T-O-P, like? You know, it's interesting. I didn't grow up listening to them. I grew up listening to James Brown.

We were kind of a James Brown household. So I was listening to the band that inspired Tower of Power. But I didn't really listen to them until school when a group of friends headed up by my friend Russ Kleiner, an amazing drummer, who was a big Dave Garibaldi fan. It's always the drummers. Yeah, they put together a Tower of Power ensemble. This was at the University of Miami right around the turn of the millennium. And I'd never played any of this stuff, but we got all the charts.

We put together a killing band and had a great time. And ever since then, you know, I've learned so much of the music and became a huge fan of the band. And let me say, I know we're getting going. We're talking about Tower of Power. I'm very excited to be here. I love this show. This is like a real honor to be here. And Peter, I got to say, man, as a saxophone.

player who came up in the 90s. Joshua Redmond, a very important player to me. And you played on a couple of my favorite records of all time, man. The Spirit of the Moment record that blew my mind when I was in high school. That is on our list. We've had many requests to do a show on Spirit of the Moment. Yeah, man. Do an episode on Cat Battles. I still point people to that tune, that small group arrangement as like a very clever small group arrangement. So I just want to say, it is a real honor to be here. I love this show. I love both of y'all. And this is going to be super fun. But anyways, yes, that is my That is my story with Tower Tower. Well, likewise.

Thank you, Kirk. Likewise, Kirk. Yeah, Strong Songs is an amazing show, and we're big fans around here. Peter, what about you? What's your Tower of Power history? You know what? I did not grow up, well, I definitely heard it because some,

like, I grew up listening to, you know, a lot of stuff on the radio and, like, out in the vacant lot by the house and, like, with a lot of older. Wait, what? Yeah, there's a vacant lot. I never told you about that. What? We're not going to bore it. Yeah, there was a vacant lot across street.

No, that sounds super interesting. What are you talking about? You know, just like people bring it out the boombox and stuff, but mostly on the radio. And so this was a little bit early. I mean, I guess some later Tower Power. But I wasn't super aware of them until a gentleman named Maurice Carnes,

a friend of our, is one of the great drummers out of St. Louis, would always be talking, Tower, Power, you got to check out. I was like, what? And I went back, and so I recognized it. And so it's something like EWF, I feel like I know so much better.

James Brown as well. So I'm really, this was exciting for me to kind of dig into this. and I'll kind of be the, although I may be the oldest of the three of us, I'll be the junior member. I'll be the little baby as you guys wean me into the TOP lifestyle. So let's maybe kick it off with the opening track, What is Hip.

This has got to be up there. One of the great opening tracks of the 70s, right? Yeah, a very bold beginning, for sure. Very bold beginning. Driving 16th notes, here it is, What is Hip? Then Dave goes to the bell. How about this for Phil? Woo!

Kick-drawn! That's a damn good kick-dron sound, too. The horn fill here, the horn line. Yeah, yeah. What a start. What's great about that start is you get all of the Tower of Powerness. Like you mentioned, like, David Garabal, these bell patterns, which I feel like he's just one of his trademark.

Every time he goes to the bell, get out of the way. So let's just introduce the band a little bit. So this is, they've had sort of a rotating cast. of, especially vocalists, even early on, but this is Lenny Williams on lead vocals, who I think is arguably the greatest Tower of Power. Yeah, this whole lineup, right? So it's this and then back to Oakland

and then Urban Renewal. I feel like this run, those three records are the records that I think of as definitive Tower of Power, even though I do love some other later stuff. And that was most of the stuff, I don't know, it's most of the tunes I've heard, most of the tunes I've played, and most of the tunes I've heard referenced.

Yeah. Yeah, that run that you just mentioned is incredible. Back to Oakland, I think, is on par with this album as well. Chester Thompson on the organ, who is simply a monster on the organ. Great jazz player, too. Great jazz player. That's right. Bruce Conti on the guitars.

By the way, everybody's singing as well, right? As you can hear, like everybody's kind of background vocals. Rocco Prestia on the bass, who we heard on that what is hip, where if you're not really paying attention, if you're maybe not listening to the different instruments in this, Mix, you might miss it, but that bass is under everything. Here's a little stem. Just doing these driving 16 notes for the entire...

Yeah, it's just the machine gun, especially on this team. And it's like the opposite. It's such a great funk groove that he plays, but this is the opposite of what a bass player would normally... Like, you think about the beaters or James Brown with some space and simplicity. Like that first note that he played, that's like the longest note he plays. I know.

Well, but this gets really effective when he does stuff like that. When he goes away from it and comes back to it. Especially when you put it in the context of Garibaldi's drum parts, because the two of them are like this kind of machine gun firing line together. Yeah. And when you take this apart... When he goes down low there on the chorus. Yeah.

Like that doesn't sound that funky, but that's a great funk rhythm section. As you say, Kirk, when you have the bass and the drums dialed in but working as one unit, that really kind of proves it, you know? You've got David Garibaldi, who, Kirk, you mentioned on the drum. who has since become a legend of funk drumming is so influential. You mentioned, like, a drummer friend at college introduced you to Tower of Power. Same for me. Like, every drummer I knew in high school was like...

Maurice Carnes. Yeah, Morris Caron's great drummer. Everyone has a drummer in their life who introduces them to Tower. Exactly right. It's like a multi-level marketing scheme among drummers. Someone's making money somewhere on this. You've got Brent Byers on the percussion. You've got Doc Kupka on the Barry Sacks.

Do we actually have time to go through the whole? It's a big band. It's a large ensemble. Yeah, it's true. Doc, one of the founding members who's still in the band to this day. Yeah, man. I just saw them play, and he's still doing it up there with the Barry. Incredible Barry sound.

I believe this was, I think this was Lenny Pickett's first album with the band. Yeah. 18 or 19 years old, really young when he joined the band. There's some great. video of young Lenny, in fact, infamous video of young Lenny on some live Tower of Power in like a really incredible jumpsuit doing some dances. If you don't

know Lenny Pickett from Tower Power, you actually do know him. You probably know him from this, actually. He, of course, is the iconic altissimo tenor sound in the Saturday Night Live band. He's been there. How many times do you think he's played this solo?

Oh, my God. I know. So hundreds and hundreds of times I would love to hear just a compilation of every solo. He's were taken on the way in and the way out of everything. I know. It would be great. There's definitely a consistency there, but he's probably like one of the most,

like him and Brecker and like Coltrane, one of the most listened to saxophone soloists in the world ever, you know? Easily. Yeah. I want to just play this clip to an entirety because it gets insane in just a minute. It always does with him.

This is just the warm up. Yeah. The control up there is ridiculous. Yeah. And he plays each week like it's his first time. Like with the humanity and the excitement of you know. It's so true. There are commercial breaks on Saturday Night Live where he'll just bring it so hard.

And I'll just be watching the show like that. Something like that happens. Just at a kind of random commercial break that always knocks me out. By the way, and I've seen it, I've been there live before. And like they're killing, they're playing through the breaks and stuff. There's a lot of cool stuff happening. And they hardly rehearsed now. They used to rehearse several days.

They rehearsed like the day before. They're dialed in there. Good news. regarding Lenny Pickett, we just booked him to do one of our open studio mentor session. So if you're an open studio member, he's going to come in and talk for an hour about music, and you don't want to miss that. We also have another founding member, Tenor's saxophone, Amelio Castile, is on the tenor and backing vocals.

Mick Gillette on the trombone, the trumpet, the flugelhorn, the baritone horn, and backing vocals, and Greg Adams on trumpet, flugel and string arrangements and conductor. There's also a couple of additional musicians, J-Spell on acoustic piano, I assume on Clever Girl, and Bruce Steinberg on harmonica. So when I saw these guys live, Emilio and Doc were the, I think, the two remaining members. Emilio seems like the nicest dude ever. The two of them, like, wrote a lot of this music, and they just seem like, I don't know, their vibe is very particular and kind of unifies this band in a certain way. You get the feeling that they really are Tower of Power, that it's their. thing. Yeah, I think so, and I wonder if they ever retire or stop playing. I assume the band

will keep playing, but it does seem like right now it still is Tower of Power because the heart is still kind of there with those two guys, but I guess we'll find out at some point. I hope they keep playing for many more years. Agreed. Now, can we just talk a little bit about the Bay Area origins and stuff? Because I think when you talk about the heart and the soul and the sound and the vibe and like that particular way, I wrote down a couple of bands that I thought, I mean, there's so many great bands and musicians from the Bay Area, but ones that were either kind of around this time or, you know, stylistically,

Sly in the Family Stone is the one that jumps out, you know, super influential, but also the Doobie Brothers. The Doobie Brothers actually started in Bay Area before, you know, early on in late, like 69 or so. We gotta get a Doobie Brothers episode. Yeah, we gotta get that. Yeah, and then I was thinking about Mike Clark,

the great drum. You talk about great drummers and funk drumming. Mike Clark and Paul Jackson. And Paul Jackson, what am I thinking? Both of that unit from the... Rhythm section from the Headhunters, you know. And then so many others, but I thought those were kind of the funk connections. And then later on, you know, Zigaboo, Motelast, drummer with the meters, lived,

and I believe still lives in San Francisco, but that was later. That's the other funk Bay Area. Emilio tells the story about starting the band. So they were originally called the Motowns, or at least that was an earlier version of this band. And they were doing a kind of a Motown thing. And I think this was right around when he hired. Doc, he tells the story of hiring Doc where Doc comes into the rehearsal with his Barry Sacks and plays, and Emilia says his dad takes him aside afterward and says, you have to hire

that guy. You're going to get that guy in the band. And they kind of figured out, he says that Doc was a hippie. And the rest of them were doing a kind of buttoned up Motown thing with like crew cuts. And they had a more Motown sound. And then, you know, they're in the Bay Area. It's, you know, after the 60s, but it's still very like 70 of San Francisco. And they go for that kind of more hippie thing.

and that's when they find their sound. And it's interesting, like, I don't know, placing them in the lineage of funk, Garibaldi, I guess, was in the military, which I didn't realize. He was a little older than the other guys, and he had heard James Brown, and he'd heard, I'm assuming, Clyde Stubblefield playing,

and kind of got lit up by that style, and you can hear him taking that in a new direction, you know, according to his own muse. Well, I mean, about 25% of the tracks on this record are kind of Motown Review-esque, you know. Right. It's an interesting record because it's kind of like in this middle place. And they never totally let go of that, but this is really, I mean, a couple of these songs.

What, like, what's the swinging song? It's like the third or fourth tune. This time it's real, yeah. This time it's real. It just sounds like a different band. Yeah. It's great, but it's very different. It sounds like it could be from Smokey Robinson or the Supremes or something like that, for sure.

It even has kind of duwob, like, kind of, you know, connotations to it. It's going to come up. later in a little segment that we do just so you'll... We'll get that later. I would be remiss without mentioning I think one of my favorite... This is almost my Desert Island track.

In fact, I'm still on the fence about what my Desert Island track is going to be. Yeah. It's Clever Girl. Notice, too, that this is mixed, volume-wise, lower than everything else. It's like mastered differently or something. Yeah.

Yeah, it's more compact. Yeah, there's something different. I love the piano. It's acoustic piano, too. It's a different piano player. I think Jay Spell is playing piano. It's a great track. I just don't feel like, like how does it fit in with the album?

What we're going to talk about? I just love it. It's great. No, it's great. Yeah, it's a good tune. This. I think this era, between 90s. 1972 and 1975, I think, had the greatest drum kit sound for my taste.

And I've mentioned this before on the show. Whatever the kick drum thing they were doing, whatever they would do with those kick drums, they sound so punchy but earthy. The entire kit, they're just that fill going down the tombs. Just feels incredible to me. Who's the drum? What's the...

Sorry, go ahead. Oh, there's something cool on this record with the mix that I've noticed that is actually changes with back. to Oakland where the drums are mixed to the left, like they're panned left, which is that funny thing that happened from the 60s into the 70s where engineers kind of figured out the stereo pan and where everything should sit, or at least that's kind of how I assume it went, that people realized, okay, the snare, actually sounds good with the snare and the kick in the middle sort of stereo pan the drums instead of doing the Beatles thing or whatever, where we just

like smash everything to the left in, right? And with this record, I think they did something really cool. Everyone's playing so locked in that it almost doesn't matter where anyone is panned, but they've got buyers over on the right on the congos and the drum set over on the left and it like, I don't know, the two lock in together in a really, really cool way that leaves a lot of space for the rest of the arrangement. And then I'm back to Oakland,

the drums are kind of in the middle, like on Don't Change Horses. That's an amazing sounding track, but it sounds a little more like you'd expect a band like this to sound. That's right. Especially re-listening to this album getting ready to talk to you to,

I was really struck by the mix and how unusual and cool it is. Yeah, totally agree. I think with the, you're talking about the Tom sound and just the mix in general and the vibe, and I'm going to show my ignorance.

What's that band? Sonic Silk, Silk, Sonic. Yeah, what's the drummer? Yeah. They definitely have heard that track, that last track. Oh, Anderson Papp. Anderson Puck. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

Right. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Are you stating the audience? Yeah, their whole band is based off of the 1972 drum sound. I'm like recreating this sound. I love the vocal. sound on this thing? Man, a thing that really strikes me about the Tower of Power horns. And I should say at some point here, I got to do my spiel about horns as a horn player and like what this horn section means. Maybe in a little bit. Because the vocals, I think, sounds so gorgeous on this album. And in general, it's sort of an underrated aspect of Tower of Power.

Agreed. I mean, everybody sings, but the horns all sing. And we had to do that when we were playing this music. And it's hard. There's a lot of, you've got to sing a kind of difficult part in really nice harmony. and then just put your horn in your mouth and play a kind of difficult line and just jump back and forth between the two. And they do it like it's nothing. And I just love how it's recording, how it's recorded. There's this like bloom. There's such a kind of a gorgeous, muted sound to the backup vocals. It's just great.

I totally agree. I think we're going to get that actually in the next track that we're going to listen to, which is get your feet back on the ground. Do you like that? Is it something you might be interested in? Yes, sir. Okay. I'm on.

I'm in. Here's that bell. They've got that mix just right too, like you hear it. This guitar, it kills. That's some solid funk right there, gentlemen. Great bridge. And the articulation of the horn, the dynamic, the plane, but the articulation, then the variety of it, man.

That's the real thing. I love what Chester is doing through here. Chester Thompson, the organist. Really, like, a huge part between the bass, organ and drums. Yeah. getting all, and the percussion. And it's tasty. There's a lot happening, but it's for sure.

They're not overplaying. Yeah, they're very sparse. Yeah, they know when the plan went not to. And just can't. This is well- Mixed. Can't say enough about Lenny Williams. He fits just so perfectly with this band. Yeah.

His voice is amazing. And the way he goes in and out of like, you know, articulating the rhythm and the syncopation, but then he'll go float above it. Yeah. And that blues, that minor and major happened at the same time? The sound of this guitar solo is wild.

It's so upfront. It is. It's harsh almost. Dry AF. Yeah, it's pretty harsh. Yeah, this probably wouldn't sound like this today, but I sort of like that amount of. No, it's so direct, though.

But with the horns and the reverb, it's a good placement. As I can't. Man, this would be the greatest wedding band ever. Oh, can you imagine? The wedding just deteriorates into Bezum, throwing stuff get your feedback on the ground man that you know

the architecture of the arrangement the placement the mix is like always sort of the under like whenever something like this and you have so much happening but like it all fits together you know bravo to the mix and the mastering but in terms of like how they arranged I mean it's busy up in there and with funk like the

the hardest thing with like playing great funk is like being able to push all that stuff in there you got a lot of people playing, you've got the horns, you know, potentially obtrusive at so many times, but it's in a delightful way. Every time they come in, like, start Solington, like, bat-up, you know, and then they're out and then they're back in, and, like, the placement of it is fantastic. I love the mix.

I wonder a lot about that, just about the way that they, the way that they arranged this or how consciously they approach that kind of stuff. Yeah. Just because it all seems so thoughtful. Like, when I really broke down Soul vaccination, which I'm sure we'll talk about, I felt like I was looking at this. this watch almost, this time piece that had been, you know, built where the kick drum is, you know, leaving space for the bass that then fills in and then the high hat, like, lines up with the guitar.

Yeah. And then the horns, like, and everything is just like put so perfectly together. Yeah. And I almost wonder, a lot of times, like on my show, I do these really deep breakdowns and recreations and I'm ascribing all of this sort of intent to everything. But a lot of times guys just get together and they just sort of, they're like, oh, that sounds good. I don't know. And then they just play it.

it sounds fine. And I really wonder what the process for writing some of these songs was like. I love the watch analogy, because it does feel like it has that kind of precision where every part is balanced with the other parts in order to make everything happen. Do you have a watch on today? You could demonstrate that with? Okay. But I, yeah, you want to break it down? But I wonder the same thing. I wonder how much of that is planned and how much of that is. I mean, there is some precedent for music styles especially funk, has the tradition of like, you're doing that, I'm gonna do this.

Right. You know what I mean? Like, same thing. Right. Stay in your lane. Brazilian music, right? In the Samba, right? Like, you're doing that.

I'm doing this that complements that. It's not exactly the opposite, but it does do a different thing. And it could have just been instinctual and sort of like molded over time. I got a cool question for both of you. Yes. Even though we're not on our deepest of dives,

although we're getting pretty deep already. We're getting close here. Throw out a little controversy. I'm going to throw a little bit. I'm going to throw the line and see if you guys will bite. Tower of Power, is this a funk band? Yes. Yes?

What do you think, Kirk? Hmm. I mean, they're really funky. I struggle sometimes with genre like that because, like, I would describe their style as incredibly funky, horn, you know, extremely horn-forward soul music, I guess. But it's funny because all those words can mean so many different things. Yeah. They were certainly inspired by James Brown more than anything.

The funkiest of the funky. And so they're in the lineage of funk. But they're their own thing, for sure. I mean, especially as we already mentioned, they kind of jump styles a lot. And at their funkiest, yes, like soul vaccination is pretty funky. Or when they're like digging on James Brown,

they're just doing James Brown covers. And then they're a fun-bred. But like both sorry over nothing? Like both sorry over nothing is not. Well, this is my thing. I think they're just a really, a band that can play funk really well. Yeah.

Like at a high level. I don't think that they're a funk band, only because I'll say this, like, not that they can't play at the same level as the great funk bands, the James Browns, the meters, you know, I mean, you know what kind of reminds me of? It's like the Jackson 5 or the Jackson's later.

It's like they can throw down on some funk, but they're not necessarily a funk band. They are funky, you know? But like a funk band, a real funk band is like everything they do. Like, they can't stop playing. That's true. That's true. I can see that.

There's a sort of a distance with Tower Power that I think is interesting. They do a lot of songs that are about how cool soul music is. They like to talk about what they're doing. And they're almost commenting on it. I mean, even what is hip is that way. Yeah, totally.

When you hear Emilio tell this story about how Doc joins the band and he realizes, oh, we're not cool, their goal, I guess, was to play at the film more. They're like, we want to play at the film more. And he's like, well, we've got to be a hippie band if we're going to play at the film more. Because that's kind of thing.

So they all grew their hair out and they became hippies. Yeah. So that song is him, like, very, very clearly just writing a song about wrestling with how to be cool. Right. And that's like that actually a very like funk band kind of thing to do. Like funk just kind of is cool. Right, right.

So there's a little bit of a distance there that I think is maybe musically being expressing what you're talking about, Peter, in the way that there was a little bit removed from everything they're doing and they're just all very good and they can do it all very well. It is, it does have the air of sort of a funk band for music nerds. Yes. Like it is that. Yeah, they're definitely nerds.

They were nerds from the start, for sure. No, that's something lovable about that, too. Absolutely. It's not a bad thing. I am a huge nerd. We're all nerds here. It's fine. Yeah.

And, yeah, I mean, we're doing a collaboration between two nerdies. Yes. It's about as nerdy as it can get. But it's not to say, I didn't mean to say, like, if you drop the needle on any of these, on two thirds of the tracks on this, I'm like, damn, that is a funk, like, it doesn't get any funkier than that. Execution-wise. So I'm not saying that there's, like, a separation between them.

or whatever, but there's just, there's certain things that they do that a straight up funk band, even on that last track, it's like, where harmonically, like they'll push a little bit more, which I love it. It's almost like a fusion-y kind of thing. They're definitely not a fusion band, but like just stuff that, it's kind of like weather report. Like weather report at times would be so funky, but no one ever thinks about them as a funk band, but they can execute on funk at a very high level, too. There's some pop elements to this, too, as we're about to hear. Sure.

All right. Nothing I can do I love this song By the way I love the guitar playing on this team I love the way that hat is my We were talking about that

That's some high hat forward Miking right there I got to make it For everyone can shine That's some Roberta Flack Yeah Yeah Lennie

What's getting burned Great hook here Cause I could never Great change here This Perfect Yeah I might have to change My Desert Island

tracks because I mean that song it might be the best written song on the whole album yeah it's their biggest hit right I think it was it was their their biggest charting hit as as tower power songs go it's such an incredible chorus yeah it's such a beautiful horn arrangement yeah Lenny is just crushing it Lenny Williams is crushing the lead vocals and you just really feel that song yeah uh well we'll see where we go here we'll see where we go because we're we're coming up to the big yeah The big boy on the album. Soul vaccination. So, Kirk, you did a whole episode on Soul Vaccination.

Do you have any insights before we play the track? No, I mean, I would say just listen to Rocco's Baseline, if you're going to pick one thing, because it's a lot less busy, actually, than some of his other parts, and it fits in with Garibaldi's drums really well, and also with the guitar part. There's this really neat interlocking thing going on, and then the congos are kind of just steady through the whole thing. Yeah. So it's got this really great. foundation. And then the horns, you know, I mean, the horn parts on this are pretty legendary.

And, you know, they're pretty in your face. So they're hard to miss. But listen to the bass. The bass is pretty cool. Yeah. Just from the start, that fill-in is so incredible. What a great fill-in. The 70s was like the time up until the early ages, you know, it was like the time of like just the perfect fill-in, man. And not some lame like, shat-bap-pac-tamp-bond. You know what I mean? No, right. Well, anything's lame if you do it in that. You do it in that ass?

This is kind of sloppy, but I love it, man. I was killing. So really listen to the bass and the guitar here. Oh, that sneaks in. Okay, to go. I'm ready. Background vocals here from the band. Yeah.

There we go. Woo. Yeah. It's very good. Love the delay there. High note thing turned the end. These B Gs here? Base fills of all time.

The song. Scoop. The top of the line. So on top. You feel they've picked up a little bit. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's definitely not where they started.

It shouldn't be. Yeah, no. You're later on to the tune, man. It's later out of the tune. I'd be excited to. See you get excited, man. One of the greatest Lenny Williams moments on this whole album happens with just the high height that happens here. And this, this, this, Coda, too, is incredible.

It's stretching. Yeah. And they really milk it live. when they do that sort of retard out. That note. Kind of an Al Green moment. He really like floats like a butterfly. He's really light on top of everything.

Speed up, hell, yeah. Oh, yeah, you really hear it here. Doesn't get much better. That's how you end the tune. Yeah. Oh, my God. It does not get much better. So I've got a couple of pull-outs here.

So the first thing that I want to listen to is, I mean, you mentioned the bass with this drum, with the drums and the percussion. Yeah. It's not just a backbeat. Right. And, you know, you mentioned the Bay Area thing. Oh.

And, you know, what this reminds me of from a very similar time here. This is Mike Clark on actual proof. Oh, yeah. From Herbie Hancock's thrust album. This really is, yeah, it's this, like, post-Clyde period where Bernard is doing this stuff. Yeah. All these guys, they're kind of like, how far can we push the fat back thing? That's right.

How far can we push the snare into the bar and still have it be funky? The answer is pretty far. Pretty far. As we've learned from these examples. The other cool thing to hear is just the wins by themselves. So this horn section, let me talk about this horn section for a second. For starters, this is like the Barry Sax band, right? For sure.

Everyone who starts playing Barry Sax, hears Doc Kubka and is like, oh, okay, like that's something that I could do. I could be a part of the rhythm section. Barry can be cool. That's what they say. I could be the identifying sonic element of a whole band. Something that really strikes me about Tower of Power is that they're really good at branding. Tower of Power is a great band name, and then the Tower of Power horns became their own whole thing. When I first heard them, it was actually on a Fish album.

I was like in high school. They played two tunes on this Fish album, Hoist. And the tunes are great because Fish is a fun band, and I liked them when I was in high school, but I was a saxophone player. So then suddenly they have this killing horn section playing with them, and I liked them a whole lot more. And I'm like Tower of Power horns, who exactly is that? That was kind of when I first learned that Tower of Power was the thing. So then I didn't go and listen to their music. But this sound, I think this horn section, two trumpets, two tenors, Barry Sacks, that is pretty solid.

Like, I love a trombone, like having a bone in there and maybe one less tenor. Yeah. You know, I like that sound. I do like that sound. Well, sometimes they'll have guys, I think one of their trumpet players with them now doubles on trombone. have guys who can double. But that sound is huge, and they use it so creatively. A thing I love about Soul Vaccination, I talked about this some in my episode,

they're so creative with how they use the different voices. Doc is kind of part of the rhythm section. There are these times, during that breakdown, boop-bo-bo-da-bo-da-bo-bo-da-bo. He's kind of in there with the rhythm section. The tenors are their own little section. Something really cool that they do that I didn't even notice until I sat down with this song.

they flip that tenor sax pattern when the trumpets come in. So when they're playing on their own, they play bo da, bud up, bud up, and they do the scoop at the end. When the trumpets come in, they go, buda teedda thong, doda, because of that, they line up with the trumpets. And everyone does that da-da-da-da-da-at at the end together.

And it's like, it's really cool. They've introduced this idea, and then they just flip it, a very easy thing to do. There's so much clever stuff like that. in their horn arranging and they manage to make a horn section that isn't that big you know it's not count bassi's band or something it's not a big band it's not even a mini big man yeah it's a five-piece horn section yeah they make it sound big cleverly this is actually you know I mentioned cat battles earlier yeah to shout out Peter's recordings one more

time that's the thing I love about that recording is it takes a what a quintet guitar sax piano rhythm section and by cleverly working the arrangement and like establishing a melody then handing the melody off and having the piano and the sax play a melody like it kind of gives you this sense of richness to the arrangement and I think Tower Power is very very good at that. Let's check out that breakdown one more time that you were just talking about. Yeah. Just start with Lenny blowing our faces. I know, I know. It's like a tea kettle. So there's the tenor line. So here the tenor's here. Now they go into harmony. Yeah. There's only two of them but they, you know, it's a little bit of variety. And now they flip.

Man, it's so good. It's like not a second-listed. They just each new time through, they introduce something new, and then they just finish it. It's so immaculate. The pacing of this, like the architecture, I keep coming back to that, just thinking about, like, the placement as you walk through. It's a tower.

It's like they built a tower. That's so great, man. You could say. Yeah. No, I think your point about, you know, I was thinking of that, I keep looking back to the personnel. I'm like, man, this sounds like such, at times, such a huge. huge horn section, but that ability to use this instrumentation is really genius.

Fellas, let's get to some categories here. Yeah. So we've got a flare on the category. Desert Island tracks. Peter, what do you got? I mean, I got what is hip. Like, to me, that's sort of, you know, soul vaccination is great, of course, and there's other stuff. It starts out, like, I mean, this is the one, you know, and listening to this whole album

and really exploring, like, that. So I don't know if you know this, Bobby Kirk. I'm very literal. When we talk about a desert on a track, I mean literally if like Adam's like dropping me off with the sailboat, bye-bye friend, I'm going to like take over your whole life. You're living here from now on. Here's one CD with one track on it and an endless battery,

but that's what you have to listen to. And so that's what I make my choice with. Like every day I would get up with that and have a great time. I mean, it's everything. It's such a perfect first track too, which is an obvious thing from the standpoint of like, oh, put your strongest foot forward. but like as we've said, like there's kind of, like there's a lot of, this whole record is strong.

I mean, like execution wise, playing wise, that's not a difficulty from them. There's not necessarily weakness, but there's a lot of different type, well, to me, there's two different types of things happening in terms of like the music on here. So for me, I gravitate towards the funk for sure, and this is the one that, you know, that does it for me. Kirk, what about you? I think mine has to be sole vaccination. I made an episode about it. I feel like I have to stick by it.

You took your hand on that one. Yeah, for sure. And it really is, you know, like seeing them live, when they went into that song, that was the one. It's the song that, if I had to pick one Tower of Power song,

I'd pick that one. Though what is hip is right up there, so is don't change horses, and I don't know a few others. But, like, but it just, it's the one. It's got kind of everything. It's got Lenny.

I got to represent the sax players. It's got his first solo with Tower of Power. And, yeah, I think it's got to be that one. I hear new things in it every time I listen to it. I still kind of appreciate right now for me, it's just the little things that the rhythm section is doing in the spaces in between like we've been talking about.

It's just such a killing track. I had that originally as mine, but I... You knew you were gonna change. I did change. Nice, nice. I'm just such a sucker for a love song, and I love so very hard to go so much. It's really good.

It is great. Every time they go to the second chord of that chorus, Bavudu-d-b-bo-bo-ball. I just, and Lenny sings that, oh, I couldn't do that. You're never going to get tired on the island, listen to that. Chills. Me neither. Just chills every time.

But my only first, I love a verse that goes to two, what it's like one to two, two minor, two diminished, back to one. I don't know if songs go to two, seven, like it's the second chord in the verse anymore. And I love that. It's a beautiful bold move. And I mean, in a lot of ways, I get it. But my thing is like, if you're on the, stuck on the island, like, you are, what does love mean anymore?

You're alone forever. You know what I'm saying? Like, you better get, you gotta keep your spirits off, man. You're gonna be so sad eventually. So very hard to go. I told you, I'm very literal. I know you really are. Okay, apex moments.

What are the apex moments for this album? Peter, you start. So I think on what is hip, everything that's happening during the trumpet soul. It's not even so much the trumpet soul. I think they, it's like a secondary, is there a second trumpet soul? Maybe it's just the only one.

But like, once he goes into that, yeah, it's the second one. Maybe we could just, I don't know if we can find it. Yeah, I mean, it's like all that obtrusive stuff jumping in. That's a great solo too there. It's not like on its own like this great solo because he's holding this stuff. He's got, I think, a phaser going on it or something, like a pedal thing. But it's perfect for all the jabs behind it and everything.

And like pulling it out like this, we're not totally doing it justice. But by the time you get to this point on the track, man, it's such an interesting thing. Like, because, you know, what you would think would be like, you know, all that. But he's just like, whee. And everything's like jabbing. And like, I think it's the hardest. All this shit happening underneath him.

Yeah, the rhythm section is like dialed in by that point. To the point of like... By that point, what they weren't down at the start. No, they started out. No, but like that's the danger with this kind of like well-executed funk is like when you start out. And like I think James Brown's bands a lot of like Bootsie, George Clinton, you can talk about. They all navigating this in different ways.

But where do you go when you start out like funky, like stank-faced funky on the first beat? you know, where do you go? You do have to go somewhere else and it's a subtle thing. It's like a structural thing. You're not going to get any funkier than how they started, but they somehow get a little bit more intense

with like the arrangement and the tapasca and everything that's happening. I love it. Kirk, what about you? What's your apex moment for this album? Well, I had one pick that I think might also be yours so I'm going to leave that one for you, Adam.

Oh, thank you so much. I have a couple. One is that tune gets your feet back on the ground just kind of snuck up on me when I was listening to it. That first B section Rocko plays this kind of displays

like dot a quarter note thing that just goes across the bar line and I just kind of knocked me out the grief on that is really great and so it's one for sure here we go that's pretty great and he never plays it exactly like that

on the any of the other B sections but that first one I was on a run listening to it and I was just like oh yeah that was pretty good and I guess if I can if I can cheat and have one more it would be that final chord of so very hard to go.

Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, let's listen to that. That's a cool. Soul vaccination. It's kind of the transition. Like, it ends on this just big, fat major card. Yeah. Just kind of makes me laugh.

And then they just, out of nowhere, soul vaccination hits with that opening film. And it's just a really incredible transition between two of their best songs. But that's also the thing, which we're talking about that, don't gink, gink, think, like those little deeds, that's what I'm saying.

Like, once it's great, like you've got to find something else to change it up. Like, little subtle things. Those little Easterization. They're very good at that. Let's hear that transition, because it is a hilarious last chord. It's very funny. It's like the anti-fade.

Yeah, right. It's like any other song would fade and they're like, nope. We're just going to end. So good. And then... And then you're on. It's just so good. That's a great call.

That might actually be the apex. Wait, can you play that chord one more? Did somebody slip to like a major seven down low? The guitar does something. Hold on. You just couldn't leave it. Let's go back. I think somebody played a major set.

There's a little something in there, yeah. Oh, very, maybe? It might have been a horn, yeah. That's great. I love that. That's actually, Kirk, that's a great take. That could be the Apex. Now, I'm going to go with something a little more obvious,

and it's just this. Captain Obvious is called. What can you say? But it is the Apex moment. I mean, if just off the top of my head, without any thought, I was like, yeah, that's the best thing because it is. It's like the most obviously.

Let's hear that in context, actually. And really, the band does make it, right? The horns are dropping on that hit. I mean, that is really what makes it work. Yeah. Okay, I got a question for you, Adam, and for you, Kirk. Okay, yeah, yeah. That Garibaldi Phil, we just heard, versus J.R. Robinson on the intro fill on Rock

with you, Michael Jackson. Oh. Why do you want to do that to me right now? But that's what comes to mind first, like, greatest drum fill of the 70s, although it was Rock with you? That was still the 70s. Are you serious? Yeah.

You know, which... Oh, he's going to pull it up. He's going to actually... All right, Kirk, what do you think? Yeah, play it. Let's hear it one time. Garibaldi's got recency bias for me. One more time, one more time.

All right, hold on. Back to the Garibaldi. We're going to APVs. Well, it's also different because one's a setup and one's like in line, you know. Yeah, that's tough. They're different. The Garibaldi one is so showy, you know, it's so fast.

I mean, I guess I pick that. They're kind of serving different functions. It's very hard to choose. Yeah. Yeah, that opening... The opening of rock with you is a pop scenario. Yeah.

You know what I mean? I mean, that is like a... It's a hook. It's a melody. I mean, he had to bring it... It's more melodic, yeah. And it was super calculated. You know, Quincy had another drummer do it.

He had JR, like, redo it and then do another thing. And, like, it was, you know, I think Garibaldi on that was just like, I'm going to do some crazy shit. And then the horns are going to come in and save it. That's right. That's a thing I really like about Tower of Power. That reminds me of something I was... I've been thinking about listening to...

to them. I loved you guys his episode on Asia, the Steely Dan record, which is, I think, a really interesting comparison to this. It's a few years later, but it's all a session guys, the way you're talking about, you know, with an MJ record. They brought a bunch of guys in. They had a million different, like a different drummer on every track. They're really perfecting everything. What I really like about Tower of Power is that as much as they sound like those 70s studio records, they're just a band. They're just guys who like made a band. And then they stayed in as a band for like decades. Yeah, so true.

No, when you look at their, when you look at their resumes, I mean, they've all done some other stuff. Yeah, but nothing like crazy major or gone off and had like solo careers other than the singers like Lenny Williams and Lenny Pickett. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

A couple of guys. But the core, that's like Tower Power is their gig, yeah, for sure. But that's like maybe that's an SF thing during that time and look at it, Slide and Family Stone, Doobie Brothers, Steve Miller Band out of the Bay Area Where do you know about that? Not much, actually. Yeah, there you go.

All right, fellas. Bespoke Spotify playlist titles. Peter, what do you got? Oh, well, let me see here. Bespoke Spotify playlist. East Bay Groove Masters. East Bay Groove Masters. Yeah, well, I wanted to give a little...

I mean, there's like San Francisco, but there's a whole other level like East Bay versus San Francisco and stuff. They're very much East Bay, so... I've got a couple. I've got Unksol. I've got, which could have been Dad Soul. I've got Oakland

Funk and I've got Shake Your Brass. Not my best work, but it'll do. Kirk, what do you got? I had a couple. One is Modern Drummer Presents since I feel like Modern Drummer has been presenting Dave Gerubov all before. That's really good. I love that one. That might win, actually. And then I realized, like, I was trying to come up with some, but

they, it's kind of going back to that, the thing where Tower of Power is kind of writing songs about funk. Yeah. They kind of talk about themselves in a lot of. ways. They come up with better playlist names for their albums than I could ever come up with, like, East Bay Greece, it would be what I would call a Tower of Power

playlist. And that's the name of a Tower of Power album. Yeah. A Tower of Power would be a great playlist title for like horn-based soloists. They're master branders. They really are very good branding. Okay, up next, what other albums pair with this album? Kirk, why don't you go first on this? Well, I picked Young, Gifted in Black, the Aretha record from 1972. I didn't have a actually with my buddy Russ, who was my Tower of Power introducer, the dealer who dealt me

the gateway drug of Tower of Power, he came on the show to sort of go through a bunch of different iconic funk groups. And we started back with Clyde and Jabbo, some of that stuff from James Brown, then went up through Zig playing with the meters, and then Bernard Purdy playing on this Aretha record. And that was 72, a year right before this. And we were kind of just getting into this more technical, sort of second order, Clyde Stubblefield fat-packed stuff like we're hearing on this record. Like we were talking about where, how far can you displace the back feet, you know, how much, how technical and 16th-nodian weird can you get and have it still be funky?

And man, I mean, so Young Gifted in Black, an amazing record, an incredible band, super, super-gruven and a really different kind of funk, like a different kind of soul, whatever you want to call it, than this album, but a really cool counterpart and one that I think, you know, anyone listening to this would do well to like go back to like cold sweat, you know, that late 60s James Brown stuff and listen to what Clyde is playing, then go up through the meters, go up through Bernard Purdy, this Aretha record, listen to Tower of Power, and then get up to like that Steely Dan stuff and some of the later, you know, Jeff Percaro and some of these other Dennis Chambers, like guys who kind of take it even further.

Because it's a really cool thing to actually identify the hierarchy, or the, or not the hierarchy, the lineage of those drum graves. and like take it back to James and then, you know, and Clyde and all that and then take it up. So that's my pick is a Young Gifted in Black. Also just a great record that you can listen to you literally any day. So great. I love that idea of the lineage.

And man, Purdy might be sort of the main connector between all that actually. Like he's the all the way up to Steely Dan and, you know, like. Especially because he's a studio guy. So he played with so many different people that you hear Bernard and like with every freaking band like through the 70s and the 80s. Yeah. They brought him into play on, was it, Intervisions and some of the Talking Books. I don't think any of it made it on there because Stevie ended up playing the...

Like, Stevie was like, we gotta get a real drummer. Purdy's not shit, I'm gonna play my own Perth. Purdy heard it, it was like, no, I think it's cool, I'm good. Pete, what do you got? Up next. Okay, so I was kind of, I was looking for stuff right around this time for some reason. I love the Young Giffin' and Black

because I think about like, if you listen to this and you went right into that, that would be such a vibe, you know what I mean? But I've got Rejuvenation, one of my favorite meters record, which was either from 73 or 74 right around then. And of course has a lot of like interesting crossover and just sort of vibe, you know, funk vibes, of course. And then also payback, James Brown. That was 1973.

That's a great call. That's a cool record that like when I went back and I was like, man, that's like, that's a whole vibe with James Brown. A very different thing that most people know, but highly recommend that record. I'm going to go with anything from Graham Central Station. Larry Graham, bassist with Sly and the Family Stone. So there's this Bay Area connection. But the members of Graham Central Station, so the Tower Power Horn section recorded with Graham, Central Station.

Lenny Williams sang with Graham Central Station, so there's a strong connection. Also, it's just incredible music. It's incredible. And I caught a train at Grand Central Station last week when I was in New York. Quibble bits. I'll start this one.

So my only quibble bits, aside from a couple of songs. I have a quibble bit with your, I'm reading. If you're sticking with what you, I have a quibble bit with this, but go ahead. Okay. Aside from like so very hard to go. I don't think the lyrics are that strong. What?

Keep going. I just don't. I just, I just, some of it, soul vaccination? Come on, the title, before you even get the lyrics, is killing, man. It's good, but it's not, there's, there could be more stories to tell, is what I'm saying. Some of it feels like, just kind of not, not as thought out as even, like, the horn arrangement. I have a whole take on this. I want to hear, Peter, I want to hear what you think, but I have a whole take on.

Tower Power and lyrics. Actually, I kind of agree. You know what I mean? But I mean like... There's a beautiful orchestration happening and then they're just like, have a girl, you got me on the run, you know what I mean? Yeah, but also during that period and with funk bands in general, I know I just said earlier, this is not a funk band, but especially on the funk stuff, actually their lyrics are pretty crafty for the funk stuff. I don't know, man. You listen to Parlin Funkadelic and there's like a whole, like the

lyrics, that's a different language they're speaking. I know, but like... Okay. That's the thing, though, right? Like there's kind of a dorkiness a little bit to some tower of power. Especially if you get later. Okay, so one of my favorite TOP tunes is there's only so much oil in the ground. And this is a song written about the oil shortage that people were thinking about.

Again, it's like they're always just sort of, wow, well, we got to change our vibe and be hip. Let's write a song about that. And this is like, literally the lyrics this are like alternate sources of power must be found because there's only so much oil in the ground. Very literal. The lyrics, they kind of go all the way around to becoming amazing because they're so silly. I remember the big solo that I had when we played a bunch of Tower of Power stuff live, we played credit. Do you guys know the Tower of Power song, Credit? Is that from the 80s?

It is. Yeah, I think I know that one. And it's about how credit cards are really cool. I know that one. I know that one. The lyrics are, gone get it with your good credit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can hit the town.

You don't need that bread. Like, it's all about how credit cards is amazing. That was one of Uncle Joey's favorites. That whole recording. It grooves incredibly hard and has a killing sax cell on it, but the lyrics are... The lyrics don't quite hold up? It's actually killing. It's crushing.

It's a visa commercial. It's a visa commercial. Right. So it almost is a flex to write the goofiest lyrics possible and have it grooves so hard that it doesn't really matter. But that is kind of a recurring thing with them. And then, yeah, when you compare them to like, I don't know, earthwind and fire, they're doing this whole kind of mystical spiritual thing. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, Sly and the Family Stone for sure. Stevie, Stevie. As much as it doesn't hold them back exactly because they're Tower of Power, they're legends. You do hear someone else doing more interesting lyrics, and you're like, well, okay, maybe, but if they had a little more going on lyrically, the band would be even better. So I do agree in the end, even though I'm charmed generally by Tower of Power lyrics just because like soul vaccination. Yeah, exactly. And what is hip? And then you're going to just list out exactly.

Exactly all the things. What is not? Right. I mean, that's in a long tradition of list songs, it's not a bad one. It's literally the opposite of Keeley Dan where like everything is cryptic and totally deep. Totally. About some literary character that may or may not be them, but it's maybe just some guy. Totally.

Yeah. Peter, you got any quibble bits? Yeah, well, I mean, to me, the kind of duwop-ish early soul ballad stuff tracks on several tracks, I'm looking at you this time. It's real, especially. Yeah. I mean, it's fine. You don't think this is swinging? I mean, it's definitely not swinging, but I don't even care about that.

Like, it just sounds dated, but not for this. It doesn't fit, yeah, it doesn't fit. So it's jarring in the flow of the album, and it sounds dated for when it was, you know, like a lot of people would be like, oh, like, well, no one ever says, like, some killing funk like they do. Oh, that's so dated. It's like, no, it's so dated, you know? Whereas this is kind of like they're jumping back to another time, and they do kind of sound like the world's best wedding band on that. that track. Yeah, you can hear that history, right, that they kind of changed the kind of

band that they were. Yeah. And they were still kind of figuring that out maybe a little bit. Yeah. Kirk, you have any quibble bits. Yeah, you know, I have one that I'm not sure is really a quibble bit, but I've always felt a little like I want a little more from the soloists on Tower Power Records. But then I think, but actually it's really restrained and I don't know if I need super log solos. Like there's a live version of Squibbcakes where Lenny Pickett takes this 8 million years old. Yeah, it's like 9 minute long, yeah. Yeah, and it's great. It's a real feat of endurance. It's really exciting. They're going off. I'm sure it was awesome live, but at the same time, it's, so it's kind of been a quibble that I wish there was a little more

interaction going on, I guess, and maybe that's more what I'm looking for. Listening to Lenny play on Soul Vaccination, you could hear the Konga kind of reacting to what he's doing. There's a little bit of interplay going on, but mostly it's like a watch. They're pretty locked in. The soloist kind of just stands in the arrangement and does their thing. And I felt this way seeing them live as well. There wasn't a lot of stretching. You know, I want to shout one thing out live because I didn't mention him. This guy, Jordan John, is their lead singer now.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's a young dude. He, like, can sing anything. He has a totally unbelievable voice. And can play guitar. He can, you know, he can, like, do the whole, like, singing, guitar ripping thing. And seeing someone like that playing with Tower of Power was kind of an interesting contrast. Like, he could really light it up as.

a soloist and they gave him that opportunity a couple of times and I was actually sort of struck by how it didn't quite fit because I'm so used to what Tower Apollo is. Yeah, interesting. Maybe I picked a quibble bit that I don't fully believe in so that I could talk myself out of it on the show. Maybe the short, the short controlled solas are actually really work, even though in the past I've sometimes felt like I want a little bit more from the solas. It's kind of like a quibble bit sandwich that Kirk's doing here. It is a little bit. That's okay. That's okay.

Experiments with a new form. Snobometer. One being not snobby and 10 being extremely snobby. Peter, what do you got? I mean, I put three because, you know, I was, I went one at first. Yeah. But then I'm like, there's a snobby element for this. Because it's, I mean, how can anything that's so horn-focused not be super snobby?

Yeah. You know what I mean? But it's so accessible. It's so, again, like I say, like, they would literally be the greatest wedding band ever. So like, anybody could dance to it, anybody can enjoy it, whether you knew it. Like, it's a very welcome. so that sound and vibe and everything, I mean, even the stuff that's not even as,

that I feel like is not their strongest stuff is still eminently, imminently listenable. So I'm a little bit lost, but I put three. Kirk, what do you got? Yeah, I had a three as well. It's funny. I don't always hear a lot of Tower of Power, you know, kind of ubiquitously,

like just kind of around. There's this band Lawrence. Do you guys know the band Lawrence? Sure, yeah, yeah. these young kind of really great band. They do a tune called Hip Replacement, and then they throw in what is hip. It's just kind of a Lawrence song,

and then suddenly they just go straight into the guitar riff and the baseline and everything. And it was really cool and made me kind of realize, oh, this is nice. Like people are carrying on the Tower Power thing. It is kind of out there. So it's, you know, it's not a super snobby,

inapproachable music by any extent, even though it's a little bit niche and always kind of has been. It's always been its own little thing. So yeah, I put a three as well, just because it's not quite a one, but it's very approachable. And, you know, the people who know, they know. Is it better than kind of blue?

Kirk, why don't you start? No. That's all you got to say. Peter? No for me as well. Yeah, obviously. Ocoutrements. So, album cover.

What do you think? Well, you guys go first on this, because I think I might be diverging. I've got five, which is kind of a bullet. Let me get mine. I've got five. That's why we got to start showing this stuff. Right. I got five, which is kind of a bullshit answer.

It's nothing really great. It's nothing that bad. It's just kind of, yeah, it's fine. It's a little low effort. Yeah, it is. It's a really serious drop shadow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a lot of drop shadow, man.

It's a powerful drop shadow. Yeah, it's a funny picture. I mean, it definitely conveys that this is a very big band. Yeah. Hold this over where you guys can see it. Yeah. And it's kind of just weird because it's like a photo that's been washed out and is only half developed or something. It was like purposely potato.

So, Kirk, one out of ten, what do you give it? I'm giving it. What do I have? I have a three. I don't think it's that exciting. Peter? Yeah, you guys are hard. Okay, I gave it a seven.

I don't think it's great, but I gave it some extra points because it's weird A.F. And isn't there like some... It is weird. Yeah. Isn't there some, like, weird characters above their... Or maybe that was just my copy of it. Somebody had drawn on it. So I might have...

Isn't there something like above their heads? It's kind of... No, it's like... You can see the amps and, you know, like a little bit of... detail, but no. It might just be that you have a particularly weird version, but you can give your version of seven. I mean, that's fine. Well, and also, I like, it seems to be like purposefully potato quality, which I don't know why they would do that, but they did it, you know. Yeah, no, it's true. It is kind of a 70s thing where I think of Carol King's Tapestry album cover, where she's just sitting there with her cat. And then I think about all the work that goes into making an album cover now. I know. I don't know. That's a brilliant album cover, though. I just take my picture. Yeah. That's Carol Kings. That's the tapestry album cover is brilliant because it evokes what. It evokes, what it feels like to listen to that album in your room. Like you're hanging out with your best friend, Carol King. Totally.

All right, well, that's all we got. I want to do a little bit of a shout out here. So we always read a rating or review or a comment. And Kirk, in honor of having you as our guest, I thought we could read one, a little rating and review from the Strong Songs podcast. Oh, boy, I like it. Five stars, musical genius.

This is from Amy H.F. This show never fails to give me chills the way Kirk combined. His verbal explanation with musical samples to break down a song is mind-blowing. And I recognize how much time, care, and editing finesse he puts into each episode. What he does is not easy to do. Kirk Hamilton, thank you for joining us today.

It's been a delight to have you on the show. Guys, this was such a pleasure. Really, really a pleasure. And I love the show. And I'd be happy to come back anytime. This was a delight. We'd love to have you back, man. Great stuff.

Thank you, Kirk. Everybody go subscribe to Strong Songs Now. Yeah, and we'll link to... to soul vaccination. I mean, I haven't heard that episode yet, but after doing this, I've heard some of your other ones and they're fantastic, and I'm looking forward to that. Thanks, thanks so much.

Directly that for a deep dive. And yeah, man. Cool. Thank you guys. Yeah. Oh, also, just a shout-out, don't you have a live event happening coming up this summer? Oh, yeah, I do.

I should shout that out. So I'm going to be playing a bunch of music in Portland. It's actually with a different podcast. I make a podcast called Triple Click. That's about video games. And we're doing a lot. live show at the Alberta Rose Theater on July 11th in Portland, Oregon. But there's going to be music. I'm writing songs for it. One of my other co-host is also a great songwriter. We've got a whole

thing worked out. It's going to be super fun. It's also my first ever Portland live podcast show. And I want to do strong songs live with like a whole band and a whole thing. So this is kind of a test run for that. So I really want to get people to come out. So yeah, Alberta Rose Theater at July 11th, comment out. It's going to be a lot of fun. All right. Sounds great, man. Well, until next time, you'll hear it. Yeah. Thank you.