You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - What is Jazz?

Episode Date: June 10, 2019

Branford gonna Branford. Today, Peter and Adam talk about the controversial comments made by Branford Marsalis in an interview by JazzTimes.Be one of the first 20 people to leave us a rating or review at https://www.youllhearit.com/sticker and you can score a FREE You'll Hear It sticker.Let us know what you think by leaving a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review, or head over to our YouTube channel and leave a comment for this episode.Interested in more jazz advice? Go here to browse our catalog of jazz lessons and courses available for purchase.Follow us on Facebook, Twitter & Instagram at:https://www.facebook.com/heyopenstudiohttps://twitter.com/heyopenstudiohttps://www.instagram.com/heyopenstudio See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Hey, Pete. Hey, man. Dude, where are you? Man, this is extended hiatus. I'm working, though. Know that I'm working. I'm not there, but I'm with you. I believe when I see it.

I'm Adam Manus. I'm Peter Martin. You're listening to the You'll Hear a podcast. Daily Jazz advice coming at you from anywhere in the world. It doesn't matter. We're there for you. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter with this.

We've found a way to make this happen. So you're still in D.C., right? Yep, still in D.C. I'm actually inside the Kennedy Center, folks can see me here. I'm reping every day, open studio. Not the same shirt. I would have gotten in trouble for that. But, no, here at the Kennedy Center, we're having such a great time, still doing the honoring, lifting up Betty Carter and her great principals with some wonderful young students and getting some performances and everything. How many students are this thing? How many students you got there?

24. 24? That's a lot of young minds that you could mess up, man. Yeah, yeah. No, no, it's good. I really enjoy it. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm very encouraged. I know today's episode is not the future of jazz, but it is about, it's kind of controversial, but I'm very encouraged for the future of jazz based on these 24 young people.

I'm super inspired. That's great. Okay, so this is going to be kind of a fun episode. I have this title, and tell me what you think about this title, as what is jazz? Because I think that's really what the heart of this conversation is. It could also be about getting dogmatic

or just, we could call it Brantford, is going to Brantford. It could also be called WTF Bramford question mark. So, yeah, this is all about, what was this, what magazine was this out of? Jazz is? Jazz Times. I think it's Dow. Yeah, Jazz Times.

Yeah, yeah, jazz is. What is this, 95? I want my smooth jazz magazine back. 95 call. Have you read the actual article? I just read it this morning when you said, hey, I want to talk about this thing that's been going around. And actually, so I've pulled that.

a bunch of quotes that I think are really good quotes that's not about what we wanted to talk about originally, but the the crux of this episode is, okay, people have been sharing this around jazz social media, which is about 50 people, let's be honest. Right, right. It's not exactly like CNN is quite picked up on this yet. No, or will they ever? You know what I mean? Yeah. So Jazz Times does this interview with Bramford, Marsalis, and the interviewer starts talking about his career with Sting and talks about his dad a little bit, Ellis Marcellus, of course.

And then it's then goes to your two albums in the 90s with the band Buckshot LaFunk, mixing jazz, pop, and DJ culture got a mixed reception. What's your take on artists like Robert Glasper and Kamasi Washington who are now working at the crossroads of jazz and hip hop? I think that's a perfectly legit question. I don't like it. You don't like that question? No, I mean, it's a legit question, but I think it's like a setup for Bramford to be Bramford. But go ahead. Are you going to read Bramford's?

I know. I do agree with you there. I think it is a little bit like this guy knows what Bramford's going to say. Yeah, yeah. And if you want, I've got to pull up here too. I can go right into the Brantford response. All right, you got it. Is that cool? You got the Brantford response, yeah, for sure.

Okay. Robert Glast, this is Brantford. Robert Glasper has a limited jazz vocabulary. And that's not anything he would say is not true. Yeah. Okay. That's the WTF part, but we'll come back to that. We'll come back.

I think it's in his best. interest to do that. Kamasi is not a jazz player either. More WTF. He's a sax player, but his vocabulary is not jazz. It's some jazz. This is not something I want to go to war with, but I can listen to a Lester Young record, a Dexter Gordon and Wayneshore record, and ask, do you hear that lineage in his playing? If you don't, what makes it jazz? Improv? We're back to that illusion again. The success that Kamasi has had, it's awesome, but the people defending him as a jazz player are not jazz players. They have their own idea of what jazz is and they are entitled to that, but so am I. I mean, we don't like to throw the word unpack around, but there's a lot to

unpack here. Let's talk about that. How long do we have? We have about 10 more minutes. Okay. Well, let me just say this first, because I think, you know, as much as he talked about Kamasi and Bramford obviously is a saxophone player, as Kamasi is, that's a big thing. But to me, because he started out, and it's so inflammatory, I think, what he said about Robert Glasper. And I'm not even going to the, oh, I love Bramford. I mean, I do, but it's not about that. And I know Bramford a long time, and he's been super, like,

encouraging and kind to me when I was a young player. But, look, I mean, Robert Glasper has a limited jazz vocabulary. I don't, first of all, it's just not true. Yeah, I mean, anybody who knows, and Brantford knows that. So I don't understand. I mean, if he has a limited jazz vocabulary, then just about any piano player, except for Chick-Kerea, Herbie Hancock, Keith Jared, and people like that have a limited vote.

I mean, all of us do that. And who is Bramford to say that? And then I don't like this part, really. I mean, because, look, Bramford's entitled to his opinion. That's fine. You think he has a limited. That's fine. Maybe your definition is different.

But I don't like this part. And that's not anything he would say is not true. Because that implies some sort of, like, tacit approval by Robert Glasper, by Rob, to be like, like they were talking right before the interview or something. Rob would say the same thing, because I was just talking. to it. And so that puts Rob on the defensive. And that's, I mean, I actually saw this because of Robert's

Instagram posts about this. And he was kind of heard about it as he should be, but it sort of forced him to have to come and defend himself because doesn't that, I mean, to me it sounds like Brantford is speaking for him. And that's, I mean, the whole premise of it's bad, yeah. I missed Robert's, Robert Glasper's Instagram post about this. I got to check that out.

Yeah. I mean, I can, let me just say a little bit of it because I think that'll frame things well, and then we won't have to speak for him. Robert says it's it's and I think this was very poignant and and elegant and eloquent. It's sad that the very people who say they love jazz and supposedly want to see it live and want more people to know about it are the same people who are killing it shaking my head. This post is what Brand for Marcellas had to say when asked about me in Kamasi Washington in an interview. How reckless wrong and bitter sounding can you be exactly. Have you heard my trio recordings?

Obviously not. Damn, it sucks when your childhood heroes are afraid to change. luckily the people who were and are the true true capitalized gatekeepers of this music don't and didn't have that same narrow mindset. I love that narrow mindset. They kind of nailed it.

I have a lot of respect for Bramford, but this whole, that's not jazz. It's whack and totally killing the music and kills the dreams of young players who want to have a place in this music and want to expand it. No other genre of music has had to deal with dumb bleep like this on this level. Hence why Jet.

Hence why jazz in the state it's in now. And then he goes on and on you, I direct you to read the rest of his response. I won't go through all of it here. But that's sort of the gist of it. But I mean, the fact that Rob is, and look, this is not about respecting your elders. We're all part of this music, you know.

And Rob's not like a little kid out here. And Bramford's not like a senior, you know, motivator of the music or whatever. But I think he, you know, the fact that he kind of needs to come and defend himself in that way for truly something that's, I mean, like, really for just his playing and his right to be connected to the music the way he sees it, he's got all the jazz street cred. He can do whatever he wants, just like any of us. Yeah.

You know, and we certainly shouldn't be calling each other like we're some sort of, you know, bitter 60s jazz critic or something. Yeah. Man, my take on this, too, a little bit when I read anything like this is like, I just don't care anymore. And I think a lot of people don't care about what is or isn't in the lineage of, I mean, now the lineage is so many. branches of a huge tree for decades. I mean, we're talking about decades and decades where it's split off of beep. You know what I mean? Like there's so much where people can draw from that it's like, well, what is it? It doesn't even matter. Is it good? That's all I care. Is it good? Does it connect with me? Is it something that turns my head? That's all I care about any of it. And so when I see like,

I just think this is so silly. And I do think that it's dying, this idea of these little boxes that we want to put things in, you know? Yeah. And I mean, I think, I mean, if you don't care, and I don't care, I mean, the only reason I care is from the standpoint of defending, you know, something that I see is kind of a, not an injustice. Oh, yeah, no, I'm not saying I don't care about that. Like the environment. Yeah, yeah. But I mean, but if we don't care in terms of these kind of narrow definitions and granulations of the music, what does the general just jazz crowd think about this? I mean, I was thinking about it's kind of like if you're, you know, a basketball fan hearing about, sometimes hearing about like the bickering behind the scenes of a team is. interesting because it adds to the drama of what you know about the team if it's true or what or maybe it's made up but in this case that's not what this is no this isn't like you know and look

brandford and winton and i don't want to throw winton in this because he had nothing to do with this there are brothers but the only reason i'm bringing him up was bramford and winton went through some spats with each other when they were playing together back of the 80s that i remember seeing and reading about and that was really interesting to see how that affected the music and what their choices were and that kind of thing but as far as i know bramford and robert glasper haven't been playing together on the same team recently and then had some musical differences that would be manifested in a way that a fan would actually find them intriguing or interests. So I think you'd think of like, you just don't care.

So how about the average jazz fan? They really could care less about this kind of stuff. And it just makes us seem, it makes the whole jazz community seem petty and small. It does, man. And I just read Rob's Instagram posts and he says, and no other kind of music do you have to deal with. The only one I can think of is like bluegrass. They get very dogmatic about. what is and isn't real.

You know what I mean? Like those kind of folk musics where it's like, oh, this is not real or not. Irish music has the same thing. Is this really? And to me, that kills it. That kills any kind of moving forward or pushing. I mean, no one has to defend Robert Glasper and what he contributes to jazz.

I mean, you could say that easily. There's no question. Yeah. And it slows it back into the whole thing like used to be as Kennedy G. Jazz. I mean, it just frames the thing in such a whack. I'm glad, you know, Rob used the term whack because that's truly what this is. And we probably gave it more attention

than it needed to. But we were also asked from our listeners to address it. So we are daily jazz advice. So we got to weigh in all the controversy. We don't shy away from. We may not care about them, but we don't shy away from.

That's great. Right. All right. One one one other quote I'm pulling from this article that I really like. Yeah. That I thought would be kind of inspirational. which is like this is a funny quote.

He's talking about New Orleans and about jam sessions and about practicing. And he says, when I got to New York, I saw the jam sessions guys inviting people on stage and calling songs and keys they know people don't know. It's like the ultimate inside joke. Somebody did it to me, I walked off the stage. He said, go home and practice. And I said, why would I spend weeks of my life learning to play a song in a stupid key so I can trick somebody up on a bandstand? Life's too short. I like that.

that side of Brantford. Yeah. Wow. You really missed your positive here, Adam. I like that. Making lemonade out of lemons, my friends. I'm just saying people are complicated. No, absolutely. And look, I mean, Bradford is a, this doesn't take away from him being a brilliant saxophone. It's one of my favorites of all time. So I'm very much like, whatever chip on my shoulder I have right now, I always got to give it up for that. But even more so, don't wade into these waters in an ignorant way, I think.

Like this is this what he's like what he's saying. Yeah. Anyway, I've said it enough. Let me just say one more little comment I see because a bunch of fantastic musicians, Nicholas Payton, Corey Henry, Sean Jones. I haven't even looked deep into this. I'm just seeing on the comments on the Instagram post of Robert Glasper.

But I'll just highlight one, which is from Jeff Kiezer, Jeffrey Keezer. I got you back, Robert. Anyone who's heard you play trio can hear a direct lineage to Mulgrew, Herbie, and everybody that came before them. I mean, that's the bottom line. Yep. So you tell him one badass piano player, about another badass piano player, referencing some other badass piano player.

So true, man. Bam! There you go. It's great. I love when controversy comes to the jazz community because it's usually so no one cares. It's so nerdy, man. It's just so petty and nerdy. I got pulled right into it.

You were probably just smiling there above the fray, man. Getting your lemonade ready, getting your sugar ready to add the lemons, man. It's all good. It's all good. Well, do we have an ultimate tip today? Stay off social media. Yeah. The ultimate tip.

I don't know. That's awesome, dude. No, I think, too, you know, it's, there's a whole other thing of like, is this, is this, look, a lot of this is marketing. We're talking about Brantford, publicity, all that kind of stuff. We're talking about jazz. And the old school way of looking about this is like all publicity is good publicity. But we can also frame it in a way that's just petty and negative. So there you go.

Yeah, yeah. Well, until tomorrow. You'll hear it. Thank you.