You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - What is Jazz? - S3E31

Episode Date: February 11, 2019

Peter and Adam get philosophical on this episode and try to answer the age-old question: what is jazz?Let us know what you think by leaving a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review, or head over to our YouTube channel and leave a comment for this episode.Interested in more jazz advice? Go here to browse our catalog of jazz lessons and courses available for purchase.Follow us on Facebook, Twitter & Instagram at:https://www.facebook.com/heyopenstudiohttps://twitter.com/heyopenstudiohttps://www.instagram.com/heyopenstudio See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Hey Adam. Yeah. Do you like jazz? No. Do you know how to define jazz? No. Well, why are we doing this episode? I have no idea.

I'm Adam Manus. And I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to the You'll Hear It podcast. Daily Jazz advice coming at you. And we've got a big question. We kind of putting it out there today, right? I know. So Sarah Page, McCorkel, asks, via Facebook, because we are still streaming.

We're streaming live. But not if you're listening to this or watching it. No. This is like, we're in two places at one time. We're going to do this. week. So turn in next week. We'll send it in the email for this week. Which was actually last week. Yeah, I've gone cross-side. So keep

an ear out for when we do these Facebook streaming. You'll hear. You'll hear it. You'll hear it. I feel you. So we have a couple questions. We can take one from Sarah Page. We can take one from Anita, our good friend Anita Jackson. And the first one from Sarah Page is a big question, but it's, uh, you know, let's see if we can make it happen. It's pretty much what is jazz, or what makes something jazz, right? How is the piece defined as jazz? Yeah. What are critical elements. What is jazz? Right. Well, let's, I like, we love to get critical. We consider ourselves, um, amateur critics

right here. We're, we're, we're our own worst critics. I might add it as well. First of all, we could talk about the label. We've talked about that before. The word, um, impulse, the label. The word jazz. Okay. Yeah. The label of jazz. Okay. Yeah. Let's talk about that first. Are we pro, is the official line for the you'll hear podcast. Are we pro-jazz or anti-jazz as a word? As a word? As a word? It's something we have to use. And, and and for the broader audience, but it's not something we're totally for. It's like gasoline in the vehicle.

You got to put it, not my car. Not my car. Electric, hashtag plant-based. But this is the thing. Yeah, we have to use it, but we know it's not the right thing. Is that a good way to put it? Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. Okay. So now that we got that on the way, let's talk about what it is. And the critical, I mean, I like the way that Sarah Page is kind of framing this is the critical elements, right? I would say that, and this is in no particular order, I'm just going to jump in there with improvisation.

I think improvisation is the number one element. Dude, I just said no particular order. You're like, yeah, number one. No, but I'm putting an order on it. Specifically, I meant to draw a line in the sand. Because don't you think that the, and it's really the skill of being able to improvise in that way, makes a player sound as if they're not trained in jazz,

but it gives it, I'm not sure I'm not, I know I'm not describing it correctly, but it's like you know it when you hear it, right? Yeah. When someone's able to improvise the way that a lot of great jazz decisions can, there's just a feeling that happens that's different than any other music, even other improvised music. Right. But improvisation is a must for that. Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, so that, yeah, I mean, it goes into the category of like other music, that's why we're going to talk about the other elements are not necessarily jazz, but they include improvisation.

But just really typifying not only the sound, because a lot of times people, you know, I think the listeners, it's something that they connect with from, you know, not necessarily a technical understanding and they shouldn't, but this idea of like, wow, you guys seem so free the way that you're, you know, just making it up as you go. Not only as a solitary thing, the way we think of like a improvised solo, but just in general, like they don't know really what, they don't need to know the listener, what part's improvised and what part isn't? Because because, because I know it is interesting to that because a lot of times like, what percentages are you improvise? That's a common question. that we get. Yeah. How much of it is improvised. And so sometimes, as we know in different jazz, I mean, that could be anything from like 5% of it's improvised to 99% of some things or even 100% are improvised.

Yeah. And it's a difficult thing to even really say because in some ways, nothing is actually totally improvised in that we've played everything at some point or somebody else has played it, really. All the notes have been played. Yeah. But that spirit of improvisation, super important. Yeah, there's also a sound, I think, that comes from the lineage of jazz that's happened

before. You know what I mean? So for me, you know, you can hear if someone has studied the history of the music. And that makes it sound more like jazz. And I just want to, I also want to exactly. I like it. No, no, no, no. But I want to say to-

I want to say Sarah Page. And actually, for most musicians, it doesn't matter at all. They don't define themselves as anything like that. You would never say, I mean, not you would never, but to say like, I'm a jazz musician. It's more like I'm a musician who plays. plays jazz who loves jazz if you say anything at all like that yeah but i think that yeah that historical context that lineage that really we would say that all great jazz players bring to the table in in varying amounts but that's something that connects the listeners with the history of the

music with the playing of the music with all these other elements that we're saying in a very important and authentic way again not even maybe consciously knowing or hearing that but it certainly is important so i would agree with that one um okay so that's improv and lineage. I would say the next one would be blues. And this one's kind of a funny thing because we'd say, wow, I always thought of blues being more of an important element

of the blues, which is another genre. But as we know, it's such an important, integral part of several of the sort of technical building blocks of jazz music. I think any kind of critical analysis of it that doesn't have this towards the top of list

would really be lacking. And, you know, how the blues is manifested, in jazz playing is very complicated and interesting, but you think about in terms of melodically, for sure, you know, specific things like bluesy ways of playing. And then the harmonic kind of inclusion of the blues is more about sort of like the blues scale, but also like this flat at fifth with the fifth

and the minor third with the third. But again, to just the listener, it's that kind of bluesy sound probably harmonically is the main way. But it is manifested through the melodies that we play. But then rhythmically, real rhythmic way of bringing the blues into your playing at the appropriate time that defines it really as much as the harmonic. So I think for players, what's important to know about that is like, you might be like, well, I know the blues scale. So I've already got that element.

But no, it's more of like a sensibility. And I think it was Leroy-Jones that I first read that, man, it might have been Gunther Schuller. One of the great jazz critics or writers where they talked about blue sensibility, you know. And I thought that was just kind of a pretentious way of saying, I don't know what. and then later on, I kind of started to understand it. It meant like kind of an attitude and way of playing that encompassed all those elements of music filtered through the blues, but in the jazz context.

Yeah, I think it's crucial. Sarah Page has a little follow-up question. She says, but the Grammys have a jazz category. So that's actually an interesting way to define it because I think those industries and those industry institutions, they have to define it. It behooves them to make little boxes of things.

And I think that's fine. Yeah. You know, I mean, a lot of times people are like, music has no boundaries. Of course not, you know. Love has no boundaries. But, you know, you got to put a ring on it like Beyonce said. So, hello. Yeah.

So I was going to say we should thank you, Sarah Page for the question. Thanks everybody here for tuning into the Facebook page. No, not yet. We have another question from Anita Jackson. Wait, did we define jazz enough? I'm nervous, man. No. There's no definition.

Oh, yeah. Jazz has no boundaries. Okay, good. That's how we're going to get out of that one. Yeah, no, I mean, I just, I don't. I mean, how are we going to keep a daily podcast going if we give out all the information every day? Come on, man. All right, cool.

But I think those three things are actually the essential for me. There are other things you could throw in there. But those. Groove. Groove, yes. Yeah, because I would never want to be like swing is an essential because what if it doesn't have a swing group? It does not mean it's not jazz. Although when I was a jazz Congress, there was a big vote on that.

People would disagree with you, but I agree with you. All right. You're trying to pull us out before we fall on the slippery slope. All right. What's the next question? All right, so Anita Jackson, the wonderful, wonderful vocalist and friend of ours. Amazing vocals. I will be making some music with on Thursday.

Very excited about that. Oh, nice. She asked, what are a few things that inspire you when you're composing a full album? And I know why she's asking this because Anita is making her album right now. Getting ready for it. Doing a little intel, a little homework. I hear you. Well, I think for me, you know, things that inspire me is like the opportunity to put together

kind of a whole set of music, you know, that makes sense together, not just necessarily, like sometimes we'll write tunes or play tunes or pull things out or play other people's tunes, but the opportunity to, when you have that kind of control to really, like, put something together that would be edifying to the listener and to the players to play from beginning to end. Now, I don't know if many people actually still listen to albums from beginning to end, but I think within the jazz world and the jazz genre it probably happens more than almost anywhere

because we still make records I believe there's a lot of I mean when we talked was it yesterday about the Grammys you know most of those records like really will reward the listener for like patient listening all the way through and so I always try to make my albums with that in mind because that's the way I like to listen to good records

I don't like to I mean sometimes yeah I want to go to one track but I love just sitting down and just vibing out on entire record So I kind of reverse engineering that process that really inspires me to think about, you know, not just like composing or selecting or ranging really interesting tunes, but thinking about like where does, what's the trajectory of the overall story of the album? Kind of like a set like we would do. Yeah. You know, and putting a set together. I look at it very much. Like where do you want to take the listeners on the journey? Not just within the tune with a different arc of the souls, but like as a complete, not symphony, but like story.

Yep. And I think the best way for me to do that anyway is that you start. pulled way back, you know, from a very broad brush. And you say exactly what you said, what am I trying to say? But then you make decisions going in and in and in and in down to the tiniest detail. And I think that's the crucial part is with that, you know, sort of you have that, that broad thought in mind, like the whatever the theme, it doesn't even have to be like specific, like, here's a theme, but whatever you want out of this album, just the musical vision you have

for the album, every decision you make from. the track order to the compositions you write, to the way it sounds, to the who's playing on it, down to the notes you play, down to the font on the cover. Why? Helps translate that vision.

Why? You know, and if you have that one... Micromedger. No, no, no, but if you have that... But it's the chance to do that. If you have that overarching, you know, from above big picture philosophy, and that's like,

this is what it's going to be because this is what I want to make right now and you just keep pulling in, pulling in. It kind of writes itself. Like it all happens a lot easier that way, you know? Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Good stuff. And then now one more question.

This is probably the easiest question that we're ever going to have. Do you think Oscar Peterson is just a player with chops? No. You'll hear it. Look, that's kind of a, I have the feeling. That's from David. Thank you for that.

I'm pretty sure you don't believe that. I can tell from the tone of it. It's a, what would you call it, rhetorical question. Yeah. You know, I don't know how this thing, I've actually never met a pianist or a listener or anybody with ears that has ever actually said, oh, Oscar Peterson is just chops. I mean, there's this sort of legend of people saying this, like in discounting.

Have you ever heard, heard him? Maybe that's what they used to say. Have you ever heard anyone that, like, discounted his extreme musicality? No. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's like anybody in any genre or even an athletic. or in the sciences, whatever, when you're extremely skilled in the technical side of your instrument,

and you're so proficient like Oscar Peterson is, it's the very base level to be like, oh, he's just chops and no music. But if you hear him play and you hear all the... I mean, we talk about the elements, you know, improv, the lineage, and the blues. I mean, he's just dripping and all those things. He just happens to be a seriously, technically, and, you know, adept pianists as well.

And does he play a lot of notes that if other people play that many notes, it would be a little bit noted and duly noted and noteworthy, yes, and maybe overly notes. That sentence had a lot of notes. It was, yeah, duly noted, my friend. But I mean, you know, for Oscar Peterson, you got to understand you can't take all those notes. First of all, you're not going to be able to play them. But even if you played

that many notes, it's probably not going to be as musical as he was doing it, and it's not going to work. I heard him on some of those live recordings with Ella Fitzgerald, like basically play solo on top of Ella's improvisation, but it somehow works. Yeah. It's almost like counterpoint stuff. So I think that his extreme

technique and noteworthiness was always, that I heard, filtered through an extreme level of just swing and musicality and just interesting blues and was just like a tour to force of jazz piano. You know what's interesting? He's the only person, I mean, I have heard people say this about him, that people that I don't think, you know, might understand the full scope of his playing. Yeah. But why don't you ever hear this about like Art Tatum or Chick Korea? You know what I mean? Like, those guys have loads of Bud Powell.

Bud Powell Monster Chops. And no one ever says like, is Chick-Corea just all chop? Yeah, exactly. Are they just all chops? I don't know what it is about Oscar, but. I mean, he just chops are just, I mean, because he was not afraid to play a lot of notes. I mean, but although neither was Artato and certainly Chick-Corea times. Finneas Newborn, Lenny Tristano, I mean, all those guys played a lot of notes and are considered artistic geniuses, as I think Oscar should be.

Yeah, it's always a combination. And, I mean, the technical side is rarely the most important. And there's so many different ways to look at it. Thelonis Monk is someone that I think wrongfully so was always seen as, is always seen as not a very, not having great technique at the piano. He had very unorthodox technique. It always seemed to me like he was, he adapted his technique to fit his very unique and kind of quirky sound

that he wanted to get out of the instrument. But if we look at technique as not just being able to play fast things in the more traditional way, but be able to control the instrument and make it sound like what you wanted to sound like, then if you look at it through that lens, then Tholonez Monk had a very advanced technique. I think Oscar Peterson was hearing most of that stuff, if not everything, he was playing. It wasn't just because he could do it. You know, I mean, it's kind of like when Michael Jordan would go up for a dunk and his tongue is

out and he's slamming it down. And then you could be like, oh, why is he being a showman and stuff? I don't know. It kind of fit his style of play. And he was winning, winning. Oscar Peterson solos, winning. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Yeah. Well, thanks everybody for tuning in on Facebook Live. we're going to do this kind of on a regular basis. Yeah. And we can thank people for tuning into the podcast, the old school style too. Oh, yeah, just the whole old school audio podcast. Yeah, but you know what? I think we have some folks out there that have been listening and listening and listening.

And we love that. But it might be time for them to go smash that like button or maybe leave a rating. And maybe even if you've got an extra 20 seconds, I know you guys are busy. Everyone's doing stuff. A little review. That'd be nice. A little seven star rating and review. I'm back on that, man.

That'd be very, very nice. Yeah. Well, so a couple of house cleaning details. Okay. We're still taking ideas for our closing credits song. Oh, yeah, that's coming up soon. Yeah, and so next week we're going to actually start playing them at the end credits here of the You'll Hear a podcast. Andrew has them all lined up.

Thank you, everybody for sending in your tunes. I got to say, really good stuff, man. Like, you got some players out there that listen to this podcast. I know, I know. I know. Like, I mean, I knew we had an intelligent. audience, you know, just from the different questions and the interactions we've had. But we have a very talented audience as well. Very proud of that and really humbled that like

folks that are so good would tune in for our little snappy rapport. Yeah, so if you have a tune that you would like to hear played at the end of a you'll hear it episode, you can send your MP3 to Andrew at openstudio network.com. Is that right, Andrew? That's Andrew at openstudio Network.com. Now, it has to be an MP3. Do we really have to go back to 1997? Couldn't it be like an M4A or a wave file? It could be a wave file, but you're going to waste, just wasting the space.

Okay. Because we're going to put it up as an MP3. Got it. But that's still a standard delivery device for audio. Standard delivery device. Oh, come on. Okay. No, I'm just kidding.

Jeez, babe. We've got some, we actually had some nice little reviews later. We're going to go here.