You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - What Makes A Good Standard?

Episode Date: February 19, 2024

In this episode, Adam and Peter check out Waltz for Debbie, a classic Bill Evans standard, and break down just what's so good about it.↓ Links from the pod ↓Open Studio Pro | WAITLISTWaltz For Debby - Bill EvansTony Bennet / Bill Evans versionJohnny Hartman versionCannonball Adderley versionHave a question for us? Leave us a SpeakPipeCheckout courses from Adam, Peter and more at Open Studio🎹 Head over to our YouTube channel for a better look 👀.Follow us on Instagram

What makes this song great? This is the glasses. True. And I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to the You'll Hear at podcast. Jazz. Splained. Sprained brought to you by Open Studio.

Go to Open Studio jazz to go on a deeper dive. Peter, today we're talking about our good friend, Mr. Levins. Mr. Bill Levins. No, Bill Evans, of course, the great Bill Evans. I felt like I was levitating on that beautiful intro. It's a gorgeous tune. Of course, this is Waltz for Debbie. So we started an Open Studio Pro over on the repertoire.

Club, which we have Mondays and Wednesdays we do the Repetor Club. We're learning waltz for Debbie, Bill Evans' iconic composition. Famous, people say I've been using iconic too much in the comments. People have been saying I've been using bespoke. I would say this is a bespoke iconic. Oh my God. Let me check with my attorneys. I think our next episode is going to be the most bespoke iconic albums of all time. Now, this is a classic tune. Obviously, it's a, I'm losing my adjectives for something as iconic. It's iconic. It's iconic. I start saying iconic and you start using bespoke. And you call our attorneys. It truly is a bespoke composition.

Well, it's for Debbie, but it goes to four? Are you kidding me? No, we've been learning this over at the Repertory Club. And we did a little bit of a listening session on this tune, just listening to a bunch of different versions. And I was struck how many versions came out. Pretty much right after Bill Evans released the first couple of versions, he recorded. it with his own trio, he recorded it with Kennanball Adelae. That's a great one. It's a really great version. And we have it's all good. It's such a great tune and I thought like, well, what

makes this so great? What makes this song? And what makes this standard a standard? How does it catch on? We've had some recent standards. I'm thinking about you know, Straussberg, San Deney, the Roi Hargrove tune, which is you can hear pretty much at any jam session across the country here, maybe across the world, I'm sure. But

how does that happen and why does that happen? And what is it about waltz for Debbie that made that happen. All right. No, no, no. No, I think the first, you kind of already hit on it, the first one, like, it works great trio, quintet. That's right. You know, singing it.

Singing it. I mean, like, how flexible is it? Like, you can kind of see that out the gate. That's sort of a prerequisite, I would say, for a standard. I would agree with that. Yeah, that it's playable and that it's very flexible and can be used in multiple different ways. So this is from a show in London, a TV show in London, in 166. This is Chuck Israel's on the base.

This is the Benny Hill show by any chance. That's another TV show that came out of London. No, it's not. But this is Chuck Israel's on the base. Larry Bunker on the drums, 1965. Let's just watch a little bit of this version of Waltz for Debbie. And then I want to listen to one more. Let's talk about that trio setup.

Visually and the way it sounds, the way you can communicate. I love that setup. I like a drum on a riser. I'll be honest. That's right. Yeah, it looks good. That's great composition right there. It is.

Some good hand position right there. Mr. Evans. Simple. Beautiful technique. Yeah. Hinting at the groove a little bit, right? Yeah. So famously, Waltz for Debbie starts as a waltz in 3-4,

but it will quickly go into a 4-4 straight-ahead thing. The triads. Yeah. Drop two and then not drop two. A little bit of distortion on the recording, but that's okay. It sounds just beautiful. It looks beautiful. Look how he kind of smashes those clusters together.

And it's kind of sloppy how they go into the groove. In a beautiful way, though. It's a gorgeous little groove they've got going here. It's such a dramatic thing from going out of time. It's out of time, but it's a walt, but they're going to a swinging walt. Well, and this is the style of trio, of course. Like, you'll notice Chuck Israel's, he's going to do his own thing quite a lot more than sort of your average trio. He's going to go up into thumb position a lot.

He's going to comment rhythmically a lot. more. Last episode we talked about confidence within the group. That's a great solo. Okay. What makes this a standard? Okay. So first of all, it's great.

Check out. We'll put a link. Caleb, please put a link to this YouTube video in the show notes. So I think this, the melody, of course, is what, was what draws people in. The song has a bit of melancholy with the changes. We're an F, right? And we have just a very simple, like, 1625. but kind of in the same vein as all the things you are.

Fourth movement harmonically, which gives it a kind of journey. Yeah. Journey sort of feel. That's right. So we start off really as an A minor 7 on a three chord. But this turns into an F major. It's a mediant of the tonic. But notice here the melody, if we consider this A minor 7, the melody is a C.

The D minor, the melody is an F. The G minor seven. melody's a B flat. So the third is just like all the things you are. So I think there is something to that. And also, you know, it's one bar each. One, two, three, one, two, three, one, one. And it's on the one.

On the one. And there's something to this as well. So this little thing here is so gorgeous. Yeah, yeah, the coming up. And then there's a couple of tonal center shifts. It shifts to A. It shifts to E. It shifts all over the place in a couple of different spots.

but I really think it has mostly to do with the melody. I want to listen to a version here. I want to listen actually to a couple of different singers. Yep. So I think too, just as you're pulling that up, like this combination of simplicity, starting on the one, it being a waltz,

the melody and the harmony moving very simply and kind of in lock, step together. But from the very beginning, like you're going on a journey. So it's like the simplicity, but it's also a story that's being set up at the beginning, you know? And then, of course, that's developed more. That's usually the hallmark of a great jazz standard.

That's right. So let's listen to a couple of different vocal versions. The lyrics here are by Gene Lees, who also wrote the English version of Corkavado, Quiet Nights for Quiet Stars, wrote the lyrics for that. So the first version we're going to listen to is, is, there it is, a little spoiler, is maybe the most famous vocal version.

And honestly, I don't think this works as well. I think this is a little too melancholy. The melody and the core changes are already kind of melancholy. And I feel like Tony Bennett here on the Tony Bill Evans album, which is an amazing album. I feel like this, in my opinion, it goes a little too far into the sort of syrupyness of what could happen. The lyrics are sentimental, we'll say. Nostologic maybe. Nostologic.

Debbie was Bill Evans' niece, Debbie Evans. The lyrics are all about a child growing up and leaving home and feeling sentimental about that. Maybe it defines the story a little more than we want as the melody just leaves more to our imagination. I think so. It's very specific. Well, I think with the way that they're playing it here, it does.

It's a verse. It's beautiful. Don't get me wrong. But when you listen to this version from Johnny Hartman, I think Hank Jones on piano here, I think this actually is the best lyrical version I've heard of this song. This is earlier. This is 62, I think.

And because they do it a little just more straightforward. Yeah. Taking a lot of the sentimentality out of it. Populated by dolls. Same lyrics. Same lyrics. But because they're not sort of like dragging out the emotion of it,

like Bill and Tony kind of work, like spending more time getting that. And having a full trio helps with that. There's a little bit more of a groove here. To me, this is like my second favorite version outside of Bill's original version. The new jam.

My jam. Going to an unusual major temporary tonic center there. It's a story. Even without the lyrics. This is a story. I think that's what makes it work. Somewhere in her own little head.

All of those little tonal center shifts, too, I think makes it. It's one of the reasons why it became a standard. And like a jazz, like we should kind of just quickly define jazz, because this really is a jazz standard. This is not a great American songbook standard. The lyrics were added afterwards, I believe. What's interesting is around the time Bill wrote this and released it, a lot of singers recorded a version. Saravon recorded a version. Tony Bennett obviously recorded a couple of different version.

He recorded an earlier version than the one he did with Bill Evans. Johnny Hartman did. I believe Ella did as well. Everybody kind of recorded their version of Waltz for Zed. But it's maintained its standard, his jazz standard, as you were saying, status. I think because of those tonal center shifts, it's super fun to play over. Well, yeah, exactly. So fun to play over, fun to listen to and fun to play with that.

That's any kind of standard. Like, you have to have those elements. It's got to be fun for everybody. Like, there's certain tunes that are like, even maybe become jam session tunes because they're fun for players to play, but they're not necessarily standards to the listeners. And so to me, they don't become full standards. It's the same reason why. Right.

Everybody loves that. Has become, Strabs for Son-on-Nee, has become such a hit to play at jam sessions because it's so much fun to play. Yeah. And I think that the reason I was saying this is more of a, I mean, it's maybe not a, a, necessary thing to make the distinction, but maybe it is between a great American songbook standard and a jazz standard. Like this to me is a jazz standard. First of all, some of those harmonic, like, little journeys and things that make, like, those aren't substitutions. Those were originally written into the tune. 100%. You know what I'm saying?

It's written by a jazz pianist. It's written by a jazz pianist. And I mean, you could kind of say the same of that for like, I don't know, maybe some Gershwin. So, I mean, like, there was so much jazz influence there, but you didn't hear, like, most of the substitution. and alternate ways of playing, those types of, like, truly American song that were originally written with the lyric and the melody connected from the beginning, whereas this was like

an instrumental, I believe. Yeah. I could be wrong. But I think that... It was an instrumental originally. Right. So the lyric, and it doesn't make it any less potentially powerful as a vocal

in terms of, like, adding that lyric in it, and it could be at the level of a greater... I'm not saying that. I'm just saying it's different. This is more connected with, like, a Thelonius Monk composition or Wayne Shorter, composition or a Herbie Hancock like it's truly a jazz

so yes there's still different ways to interpret it and play it but it's primarily coming, it's starting from a jazz place. It's not like taking something and turning it into something bigger than maybe it was intended at the beginning. Let's check out one more version and we'll go out on this one. This is from 1961. So this is the same year that Bill Evans

released it. Cannibal Adderley, Bill Evans in the band. So this is no what I mean, Cannonball Adderley with Bill Evans. That's a great Cover. Famously played this verse introduction, the same. It's worth, I think it's worth learning.

If you learn the tune, it's worth learning how he played it as closely as you can get because he obviously was playing it wrote. And with that phrasing, it's beautiful, beautiful touch. Theatrical, it's kind of theatrical. It is. I mean, tunes in three. C. Tunes in three are cinematic.

Yeah. You know. But just a da-da-da-da-da-da-do. Rolling for all. rolling. Ooh. Instant swing. Instant groove.

What? Oh, is Philly Joe? I think it is. Yeah. Brush is not like killing. I think it's, I think it's pieces of it.

Yeah. Cannibal makes everything better. Yeah. You ever notice that? Man. Bill Evans. Copping on here. Oh, I stand corrected.

Percy Heath and Connie Kay of porn. What? Yes. This is a great trio. I apologize. man Bill Evans comping. This is like

Bill Evans pretty great copper in general textbook on here and I mean that way of comping you know Annamol is hard to

cop behind But Bill has a style of comping he waits for that one to happen Yeah And then kind of comments After the one Exactly

But there's nothing out of place There was some unexpected Stuff the way he was Comping Cannibal's hard to comp The way like A great A quarterback is hard

unless you're brave, it's hard to receive the ball. It's so perfect, but you've got to be so athletic. Like the way his spacing is so idiosyncratic. It's a great solo, too. Cannonball, one of those players, he's never 10 seconds away from the melody.

Right. You know what I mean? Yeah, football. But, like, other great solos like this that are, they combine, like, very expected things with very idiosyncratic ways to phrase it back and forth. You've got to be on your toes to combine. You know, apart.

That's a very, like, expect. but then kind of deconstructed. Philly Joe is on interplay. On the Bill Evans' out of interplay. Yeah, I don't know. You know, for me too, like, let me throw one more thing in there. I've always thought, and this might be controversial, but I think Bill is not as strong in scenarios

where the rhythm section isn't sort of filling up a lot of space around him. You know what I mean? Like when he's left to like a tippin rhythm section, it can't get more tippin than this rhythm section either. They just sounds so swinging. But to me, that's not my, I don't think he's as like, I don't think he's able to be as comfortable somehow. I don't know, like, I think he kind of feeds off of like the Scott LaFaro Eddie Gomez energy. Right.

Well, but did that become like a self-fulfilling prophecy? It might have been. The repertoire, the way they play, kind of pushed towards that. 100% could be my own bias. And that, like, when I hear him, I think of that style. And I want to hear just more of that. But I don't know. Yeah, you're biased.

I am biased. Until next time. You'll hear it.