You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - What Makes A Solo Special?

Episode Date: August 24, 2022

Peter and Adam talk about what makes a solo special and how to make that happen. Have a question for us? Leave us a SpeakPipeCheckout courses from Adam, Peter and more at Open StudioLet us know what you think by leaving a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review, or head over to our YouTube channel.Follow us on Twitter | Instagram

Hey Peter. Hey, what's up? It feels like a special day. It is a special day. I know. Why? Well, I'll tell you. Okay, please.

Not now. Okay. I'm Adamannis. And I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to the You'll Hear podcast. Jazz. Explain. Explain, Peter, because it's, uh, I'll, let me explain, buddy.

Explain it. Explain it. I'm going to explain. It's a very special day because we are as a podcast back on YouTube. I'm looking at you, YouTube. What's up, YouTube? And so we've had this podcast. for several years. This is episode 900-something.

Yes. We've got to really find that number because we're about to go to 1,000. We've got to celebrate big time soon. But we started our very own You'll Hear at YouTube channel. Now, I don't know if you remember, but back in the musty podcave days, we were literally putting every podcast episode on YouTube. Yes, very exciting times. And I referenced some of those in one of my YouTube videos from a couple of weeks ago and I got some comments like, hey, whatever happened to your podcast? And I was like, buddies, podcast is going. Right. Podcast is happening. It's been happening. Some people are audio podcast adverse.

Yeah. And others are YouTube adverse. So we got you covered either way. Right. So now every episode is going to be up on YouTube. And we're going to put a little bit of some bonus content. I think so. I think we're going to go every episode.

But we're also, Peter, we're going to have, you'll hear it lies where we'll be live on YouTube. That's right. Most Mondays, when you're in town, we're going to be live on YouTube taking questions, talking about specific topics. That's at 4 p.m. Normally at 4 p.m. Eastern on Mondays. According to the Greco. Roman calendar. That's right.

Very specific. And then we are going to be live on Tuesdays at 3 p.m. Eastern, and that's going to be listening session. That's going to be ephemeral. You have to be there live. It's not going to stick around. We're not going to post it. And like today, we just had a great listing session where we listened to Amad Jamal's

live at the Pershing album. And next week we're going to listen to Waltz for Debbie by Bill Evans. So join us there 3 p.m. on Tuesday. Man, we're doing so much. And then we're going to put all of these up. So if you're listening to this on your regular podcast, We're not going to change anything here. We're always going to be on the podcast.

It's always going to... Would that be something in my course. Of course it will be. By the way, I got a new one today. Martin Landau, by the way. That's who they is. Icon. I got a new.

I got a little new thing here. Let me hear. Check it out. I choose defiant jazz. I know, right? Severance. Good choice. Seference.

That's the brilliant show. I haven't seen it yet. I've heard good thing. Is it a jazz show? There is jazz. Okay. And there's some defiant jazz. And it kind of flips the script on the show completely.

completely. So, yeah. We'll have to do another episode. I know we did some funny ones like jazz moments on the office and stuff, but there's, we should do like shows, recent shows. Yeah. Or movies that feature jazz. There's a ton.

In a slick way. For sure. Homeland has some great jazz references and great jazz music in it, although I believe it's off the air now. Yeah, absolutely. I think she prefers Coltrane and he prefers monk, right? That's their whole thing. Yeah.

And she taught, she listened to some specific records and they mention them. It's always the right one. somebody on that show is making sure this stuff is accurate. There's some stuff. There's a hilarious sketch comedy show called I Think You Should Leave. And obviously, either Tim Robinson or someone on that writing staff knows jazz because there's like, you know, Herbie Hancock. Not the real Herbie Hancock, but like there's a tribute to Herbie Hancock on it. And there's some, there's kind of some specific references where like someone's a jazz musician there.

That's great. Anyway, yeah, let's do it. So today we have a speak pipe. So if you would like to leave us a voicemail, if you have a question for us, on YouTube, you can check the description. Here, you can always just go to you'll hearit.com. You'll hear it.com. You'll hear it.com. I'm like the guy that was with Johnny Carson, Ed McMahon.

You're like Ed McMahon. No, now you're Ed McMahon. Do I get to be Johnny? Right. Well, you just, you automatically like reverted back. Well, I'm kind of the bigger one. I'm flushed in the face, you know, that kind of thing. Irish, that whole McMahon.

Ruddy. Yeah, exactly. Anyway. No, you can go to you'll hearth.com. You can leave us a question. Yeah. Just like Terry did. And Terry's question was so good that we are going to make this entire episode about it.

Yes. Let's check it out. Hey, Adam, Peter. This is Terry Param. How are you? I'm a open studio member. And I was listening to your recent podcast dealing with solos and spicing them up. One comment that I think it was Adam made that sometimes solos can be considered boring or not.

special or and I was wondering what determines whether a solo is great or is special and it's just a question when a professional does a solo if that solo is not great or special is there anything a beginner or a mid-level pianist like I am can learn from that other than just saying that it's not special or that it's boring. I'm just wondering how we look at, you know, someone's solo and wondering what we can actually get out of it, whether it's great or not so great. Anyway, hope you guys are doing well. Thank you. That's a great question, Terry. And I just want to preface this by saying a couple of things that we can kind of frame this around from the start. Yes. And that is, number one, nobody is special all the time. Maybe Charlie Parker was, but,

Clifford Brown. Clifford Brown. Everyone else has moments. Yep. And some have better moments than others. But that doesn't, it's not like you're, you know, you're always special. Then nothing, if everything's special, nothing special. That's right.

That's right. And then secondly, we don't really want to get in the habit too much also of like judging harshly what we're doing when we're doing it. Yeah. Part of the reason why I think some solos can reach this height of. of being special or being extraordinary is because there's a lot of non-judgment happening as the improviser is improvising, right? So I don't want you to be in your head, Terry,

about like, this has to be good. I also don't want you to try to impress. Like, that doesn't make a great solo either. So let's not think about like, I need every solo to be special and impressive. That's gonna just lead to really mediocre stuff. Yeah. You know, where you're in your head.

But you should dress for success before you get up on the bandstand. I always do, baby. No, that's great. I mean, I think, you know, there's always the perception versus the reality, both for the soloist, for the improviser and for the listener. So I think we should think about, I'm not sure, you know, special or great versus boring. I don't think that's the right way to look at it. I agree.

You know what I mean? If you're, depending on your skill level, and there's certainly a gradient here, I think if you're telling your story and you feel, you. feel good about it and it's an edifying experience for you that is special already yeah you know we're not going to all well as you say nobody's going to go to the mountain top every time no nor should everybody go to the mountain top the altitude's high up there yeah you know what i mean absolutely and so you have to not reserve those special times but cherish those and know that the reason that the altitude's high up there is it's a special place up there and so but i think in in terms of having great souls you can play a concert or attend a concert you know listener you

versus performing, participate in a performance that has a number of special and great moments, but not the mountain types of things. That might, because you want that to be far to the form. But I don't think we think about because you don't get there that they're not great still. It's just a different kind of greatness. And I think it's like if you're participating in something, it's such a special thing to be part of that. So it doesn't matter if you're beginner, intermediate advance or anything in between. If you can tell your story through your instrument, that's a great and special thing.

There's going to be, your mountaintop's going to be different than Herbie Hancock's. No problem. Just like when I play basketball, my specialness is a lot different than LeBron James. But sometimes I have a special day. Is it? But you both have a basketball in your hands. Right. But for him, it would be a horrible day.

But for me, it's a great day. Right. You know what I mean? So. Right. But I mean, I think that you can still feel like, depending on your skill level as a basketball player or jazz improviser, you know, how do we get into a zone where we're, you know, how do we get into a zone where we're, we can best tell our story and to have that special connection with the music without comparing ourselves to LeBron James or Charlie Parker.

We don't ever have to do that. Yeah. You know, then you can have these special moments all the time. So, yeah, so maybe the amateur versus professional thing, it's less like, okay, is anyone going to come and spend money to watch me play basketball? Probably not. But that's okay. That's not why I'm doing it, you know?

And really, that's not why I'm playing music ultimately anyway. way. If we get lucky and we have some sort of combination of like skill and practice and dedication and then we're around people that help us get to the mountaintop every now and then and we can make a living at it or get paid for it. That's all the better. But I never take that for granted. That's happened to me some. But I mean, who knows if that will keep happening. You know, but my connection with the music and wanting to have special moments of telling my story and contribute to other people's special moments, that never changes and that I know I can always have. That's right.

So let's kind of drill down on what, you know, what makes a solo specifically, what would make it, quote, unquote, special. Even amongst, you know, great players who have, who, like you said, their level is raised for, like, so their sort of medium, mediocre solo for them. Yeah. Is an awesome solo for most people, right? Right. But for them, what would take it to that?

What puts up to the mounteop? For me, when I listen to my favorite players and I consider like, oh, this is one of my favorite Coltrane solos, or this is one of my favorite Amangamal solo. of those. I think part of the mix there is I have an expectation and that expectation is defied a little bit in a delightful way. So like, and it's not even because I have an expectation because I know that player. They're setting my expectation up. Yeah. And then something a little bit novel happens at some point that I wouldn't, that I'm not hearing. Something that sort of, and I think this is works really well in live performance as well because you can really be in the spirit of the moment.

and you're in the room and you can feel the vibe in the room and you can hear and see what's happening. For me, live performance is where this can really pop off as far as like, I have an expectation of what's going to happen and they pull the rug out from under me or they go just beyond or they go way under what they are kind of alluding that is going to happen. And it just pulls me in a way that I'm not ready for.

And that's thrilling, especially if it's a confident player that, I mean, all the masters are confident, but where you feel like... Confident and skillful. Confident and skillful. where you feel like I'm in good hands here. Right. You know?

So I think what you're describing is really what makes it that mountain top. What makes it special is the drama, you know? Totally. Something unexpected, something exaggerated, something not exaggerated, something weaving the story in a way that's unexpected. So if you think about like, you know, John Coltrane or Brad Meldow or Oscar Peters, I'm just naming people now, right? Yeah, yeah. No. Rosam Rowling Kirk looking at the record over there.

Danielle Steele. Looking at the novel over there. That's a novel item right there. But if you think about like what is not unexpected from these virtuosos or dramatic is that they're going to play really cool stuff like harmonically or technically or melodically or whatever. So that's not enough for them. But a lot of times we think like, oh, that's what separates them from a month. No, it's not. But that's the part that in theory anybody can learn up to a point.

That's push-ups. That's really putting in the reps. Now, when you talk about Oscar Peterson's piano technique, just on a technical level, can't anyone do that? No, of course. I mean, of course, there are the absolute master. But I'm talking about, like, if you're, you want to talk to, like, top tier professionals. Right, right. There's a whole thousands of them.

Exactly. And they're making a good living, making music, and they're really making good art. But I think a lot of times people think that what separates that top sort of mountain top level is like, Oscar Peterson is just a little better than even the greatest pianist technically. And I'm like, that's not what actually makes it special. That's not what you were talking about with the drama of the, the soul is like how he puts that together. The interaction, I mean, Oscar Peterson, the interaction with the trio, when they're all

finely tuned and you can hear everything and they're interacting in a way, but not expected in every way. That's the other thing. And this was my number two point for what makes it special is it's basically awareness, it's mindfulness, it's being in the moment. How present are they in the moment? When we saw Benny Green and Christian McBride and Gregory Hutchinson, I don't know if there's a better listener on a stage than Gregory Hutchinson, except for maybe Christian

Pride and Benny Green. Like, the three of them are the best three listeners I've ever seen play together. And a lot of people might say, oh, well, that's easy. They're just, they're all listening to each other. They're all super skillful. Give it a go. But it's actually hard because when everyone's listening and it's so skillful, you can have like a cacophony of sound and things.

So you have to be able to hold back. You have to be able to push. You have to be able to. And that becomes a part of the dramatic flare of the whole storytelling thing, you know, within solos and within entire tunes within the set. Each one of their solos, they had a moment on in that, night that I saw them that each one had a special solo. Like my top 10 favorite drum solos in that night. My top 10 favorite piano solos was from that night. And it's because of like you said,

the interaction, I also consider that to just be, again, awareness or mindfulness or being present in the moment, however you want to define it. But you are not in your head. You're not, you're not, you don't have a plan. You know, as far as like, I'm going to do this and then I'm going to burn here or whatever. You are literally with whatever is happening in the, in moment to moment basis. And it's so beautiful when it's done at that level. Well, and I mean, and the thing about that, too, is I was at that gig with you that night. And it's, I mean, I've played with Greg so much and with McBride. And I've heard Benny Green and listened to him so much.

It's almost, yeah, is there something you wanted to push there? Oh, no, because you get a little pithy response there. Okay, sorry. It's so like, it's so. I choose defiant jazz. To find jazz. I thought she said define jazz. Defiant.

Defiant, yes. But it's very hard, like, I'm not going to be surprised or dazzled necessarily by something that Greg Hutchinson can play, because I've heard him play incredible things before. Yeah. So you talk about being in the moment and listening and interacting and then to be able to spin something new every time. Yeah. That's really what that high level is. And that's why we say, like, well, the special is not that he can do a perfect press roll, that he can swing right when he comes up. Of course he can.

And I've heard him do that many times. It's still fun to hear that. But that in itself is not. that might be special for somebody else that you've never heard do that or has just achieved that. But that next level of the dramatic thing is amazing. So one more thing that I want to add to this, Terry, just to kind of put a button on it, put a bow on it, and then we'll wrap this up here, Peter. Yes.

Is Terry asked like, what can a beginner or an intermediate player learn from watching a great player not have a special solo or have a special solo? And I think the not have is actually more, can be more informative. Yeah. Because I think of great moments that I. witness live or even in recordings where a great musician will be going for something and not quite get it you know and oh I love they make a mistake right because what we're doing is not perfect ever and honestly watching people trying to be perfect is super boring right like no one wants to see

you try to play perfectly right we want to see who you are yourself against the dramatic flare oh totally it's going to it's going to feel thought out and prescribed and then also you're not going to be in the moment because you're trying to play plan out some perfection, right? Right. But when a player, when you watch a great player make a mistake, you can learn more from that because I've seen great players. I've seen you.

Not that you'd ever make a mistake, Peter, but I've seen you make a mistake and then like smile it. When we did the solo, the two piano show, like smile and then move on and some of the best moments. And also the audience is with you. I've seen, I'll never forget watching Sean Jones and a whole solo, really like going for stuff and he wasn't quite getting there. And then he's like, but he's bringing the audience with him as he's like,

like working through this thing. And then by the end of the solo, this most beautiful language starts pouring out because he kind of earned it. You know what I mean? Yeah. And brought the audience along for that ride. The place was standing up after the solo

is one of the greatest moments I've ever seen. So like those can be amazing, Terry. So watching the greats fail and realizing like, okay, I'm putting way too much of my ego into this. I'm too worried about what other people are thinking. The greats are making mistakes, not worried about what other people are thinking. They know they're secure with what they have

and they just let it flow. They let it go. Yeah. It can be amazing. Yeah, and I would just say, I mean, we could actually just both give an example if we want. I'll throw out for what is a special solo, what is a mountaintop, what is a solo with mistakes, what is a solo with a certain amount of reckless abandoned that's just so edifying and charming and just exciting. And so for me, Miles Davis on My Funny Valentine Live in Lincoln Center for Stella by Starlight. Talk about trying to find it.

Yeah. And finding it. And finding it. And, you know, and some of those moments and like, you know, a very. a very opaque performance, you know, a very, like really putting himself out there as an artist, as a musician, you know, and then wrapped up in that is all the beauty of his tone, of, you know, tone and intonation and then interesting rhythms. Of course, the skill stuff, that's just the base level. That doesn't get you to great, like all the stuff. And so I think, but what we can

all learn, instead of being discouraged, you'd be like, well, I can never be great like Miles Davis or, or Roland Kirk or whatever. I think what we can do is to say, we can also, approach every solo with the intentionality and the framework of like whatever it is I have technically, whatever it is I have with the instrument, the other musicians, all the things that are kind of given to me

or the place that I'm in, that's fine, but it's time now to make something special from wherever I'm at. If I only know how to play one note on my instrument, but that's what I got to go with. I'm not waiting until I hit a certain point to make a special solo. That's absolutely right. You have what you need right now to make a special solo. So go

out and have fun, be in the moment, And do it. Man, thank you, Terry. This was a great question. Super fun. I could talk about this kind of stuff all day, but I won't because we have a little business. If you haven't yet, go subscribe to our You'll Hear at YouTube. If you're watching this on YouTube.

I like your accusatory pointing to it. I'm going to do that too. Go subscribe now. No, subscribe down there. Put the bell on because we're going live on this channel a lot. If you want to leave us a question like Terry, go to you'll hear it.com and hit the leave us a message button. And look, we're getting a lot of questions.

We get a lot of questions. So we do pre-scrubes. screen them and stuff, but we're a little behind on that. Do not take offense in advance. We will get to you. Thanks, Peter. Yeah, thank you. Until next time.

You'll hear it.