You'll Hear It: Full Album Deep Dives with Jazz Musicians - What Makes This Album Great: Live At The Pershing

Episode Date: May 9, 2024

In this episode, Adam and Peter check out the incredible Ahmad Jamal: Live At The Pershing. This incredible album is no doubt a part of every jazz musician's canon. Unlock your FREE Open Studio trial to become a better player today.Have a question for us? Leave us a SpeakPipeCheckout courses from Adam, Peter and more at Open Studio🎹 Head over to our YouTube channel for a better look 👀.Follow us on Instagram

Hey Adam. Yeah. You ever heard this? I mean, no, but I've heard this. Oh, we're close. I'm Adam Anis. And I'm Peter Martin. And you're listening to the You'll Hear It Podcast.

Music Explain. Music Explain. Go to Open StudioJazz.com for... Oh! Your jazz lesson needs. Peter, go to Open StudioJazz.com for your free trial, too. And we're continuing with our series today of what makes this album great. It's been a hit hit of a series, Peter.

We got a lot of feedback on the series. Most of it pretty good. Yes. It's been very good, I think. Yeah. It's about to get a lot better because we're listening to one of the greatest albums of all time.

One of the great... Spoiler alert on the ratings of this one. This is going to be interesting because we love this record. Yeah, if this album isn't in the 90s on both of our scorecard, I would be very surprised. Yeah, I mean, we're doing something wrong

if that comes... Well, you know what? It'll just mean we need to tweak our scoring system a little bit. That's true. But I don't think that's going to be the case. Yeah. But we are going to be impartial.

And we are going to prejudge this record because we have a lot of experience with this record. Because we've been prejudging it for 35 years. Yeah, but I think that brings a little bit more authenticity, a little bit more authority to our opinion because we both know this record very good. Although full disclosure, and I haven't checked with my fine attorneys at Dudley de Boise. But I have not listened to this record a lot recently. So I do bring out certain fresh air. Okay. An NPR fresh air.

Shout out Terry Gross. To this, which I think is good. I love revisiting. I mean, this is a record for me. I could listen to every day and be happy and it would never get old. But for whatever reason, I don't. I go through stretches where I listen to it every day.

That's right. And I have for years. Sue me. I love many things. Sue me. I do a lot of things. No one's going to sue you. Too litigious.

We're talking about Amad Jamal's, but not for me live at the Pershing. Yeah. At the Pershing, but not for me. I think it's officially. Question. Yeah. Pershing.

You've always said it in that way. Well, it is spelled that way. Pershing. Pershing. But there's a famous street here very close to us. Pershing Street. Pershing. Okay.

Only somebody from, not from St. Louis County or city would call it Pershing. Okay. Caleb, what do you call it? Pershing, exactly. I think he said Pershing. Caleb's confused because we're throwing a lot out of them. Hold on. For our listeners at home.

So it's spelled. I think you're right. I'm just trying to. P-E-R-S-H-I-I- Okay. In what world? Grammar... Does a shing turn into a jing? Okay, just so you know, there's many exceptions to the English language. The origins of many of these names are from other languages.

But I think that you're right. I mean, I've heard people that know this record and are very... Their snobameter is off the charts called Live at the Pershing. I just... It's weird to me because I've always said Pershing. Listen, I'm not trying to be the grammar police. I've just always said Pershing. And I want to be right in context with you. Okay, Pershing.

We're going to go with Pershing. or Pershing. This is going to affect... Put it in the comments. You say Pershing or Persian? The scoring for number seven, the title, you know. How do you say Empirian Isles? Emprian Isles.

Emprian. I just want to clarify. Okay. So, just as a refresher, or in case you're new round here, where y'all being? But the way we do the scoring is based upon the traditional 100-point wine spectator scoring. No, wine, the Wine Spectator uses 100 points. That's true. As does the Western pedagogical school system.

But I don't think the Wine Spectator has something like, is it better than kind of blue on their list of things? No, but they'll have like, is it better than a Bordeaux or? Will they, though? I don't know. That's the equivalent of that. But these are our 10 criteria. Playing, vibe.

Yep. Compositions. I'm going to put for this, can we put compositions for today only or maybe for other albums too? Compositions slash arrangements. Because. So we're going to change what makes this album great. Just for this album? Are we going to be retroactive?

I think for this one, I think we could change this in general to compositions and arranging because these are all compositions, these are all great compositions that we have here, but what makes them stand out is the arrangement. You're right, all right. Four, sound, five, sequence,

i.e. the order of the compositions and arrangements. Six, cover art. Can we take a look at the cover art? Just to refresh everybody. And this is going to be a tough one because there's a lot of different versions of this out there. This is one that I've never seen, but is most likely the very original one.

Are we going to go with this one? Yeah, that's original. I believe. Okay. No, it's so good. Seven, title. Eight, lore. Nine, my favorite, the schnabometer.

Your favorite also, maybe the most confusing. And then 10, is it better than KLB? We'll refresh you on what those means. I believe it's, I believe it's, schnabometer, not schnob, snob. Snob. I think it's just snobombo meter. Schnaub.

Like if Pershing is Pershing, that's, and you say, said schnabomere. You're really going to hold on to that. Please drop in the comments the correct pronunciation for Pershing. You've got me going on that. Anyway, this is on the Argo, the now defunct Argo record label. Did you know that? What if they're still around?

How do you know it's defunct? What if they're still here? Do you see that movie Argo? Yeah, great fun. I love it. Great movie. Totally unrelated to this. Okay, let's stop this. Let's start this.

Let's stop this. Let's stop the whole thing. Let's just call it off. Let's stop this. Call the whole podcast. This is a fun one. It's a fun episode. So let's stop this useless drivel is what I was going to say

and start this beautiful music. You're driving today, so wherever you want to start it, but we're going to be talking about the playing first. Yeah, it's a tough one. I'm going to start with this. Unconventional choice for playing. Love it. This is no greater love.

Also known as there is no greater love. I think this is what... The phrasing. He's the greatest, Amadimo. Yeah. I have phrasing. And Israel probably is phrasing with the baselines. Renel Fornier.

I mean, dang. I mean, it's the obvious choice this one. The arrangement. But just if we're just focusing on the plane. Obviously, the simplicity, the minimalism has talked about a lot. It's a theme and something that's been noted many times. But can we talk about why this minimalism works? And dynamics.

Groove, feel, and dynamics. Right, the rhythm section is holding it down, the groove of the sound with the feel of the dynamics. And Ahmad's dynamic. are world class. Yeah. Highest level. Even the dynamics within

if he's playing a double line, within a voicing or something, a lot of nuance there. Let's play the melody again. Nothing wrong with it. Even better. A little left-hand red there, his version of a left-hand red garlic,

right? He's, we listened to this once at the listening session. Take it around the cycle. Huh. We listen to this at the listening session. When you listen to this intently, Deep listening.

You realize he's not more than a few seconds away from playing the melody at all times. Always going back to the melody. Never more than 10 seconds away from the melody. Oh, I love his, his phase in that blues for longer than people might realize. And Bebop is great, of course. And started that phrase with the melody. Yeah. Arrangement.

Okay, when he set something up and then tacit. He did it three times. Oh, my God. Then he did it twice, and then he just test. So simple and so genius. He puts it in your head. So hard to do that. And then you just finish his phrase for him.

It's kind of lazy. Well, you know what? Even the first one, he went, brilliant. And the second one, he went, bum, bum, bum, bum. And he asked you. And the third one,

nothing at all. And you're doing that. Exactly. Oh, they're doing it. Short tracks, too. What is that? Three minutes of 26 seconds. For a trio track, that's all you need.

I mean, the plane is so great. Obviously, you could, I could listen to that for eight minutes. But I mean, these are very succinct, very, and this is a live set, obviously, at the Pershing Hotel, the lounge and hotel in Chicago. Is this in Chicago? I should know that. Yeah, it's in Chicago. But, you know, it's so, it's so, it's everything you need and nothing that you don't.

It leaves you wanting more. But even when you come back and listen to these tracks over and over again, it gives you more. It gives you. Which is crazy, you know. So playing, Peter, I'm going. with a 10 out of 10. Oh, yeah. Dude, I literally, right?

You don't even have to talk about it. And I was, I was just like, is there anything that happens? And look, if it was just what we're talking about, a mod and then like everybody else was a nine or a nine, we would reflect, I would reflect that. I didn't make it a nine. But I mean, throughout this record, Vernel Fornier does just so many genius things that have been picked up by so many great drummers. You know, Brian Blade, one of my favorite drummers, one of my dearest friends for many years,

so influenced by everyone talks about Elvin Jills. but Vernal Forney, like so many things you hear with the brushes. Greg Hutchinson, Hurlin Riley, I mean, coming straight out of this. Israel Crosby, I mean, iconic stuff. Thousands of musicians. Thousands and thousands of great musicians. The detail, the precision, the virtuosity that I think that's what it is. This is virtuastic trio playing that certainly leads to the lineage that ends up at, you know,

Brad Meldow and Keith Jarrett and Bill Evans and Herbie Hank. But it's not virtuosic in a way that would be like an Art Tatum virtuosic. I mean, it could be, but it's more artistic, virtuoso playing than anything else. 10. Undisputed. I will fight anyone. Okay, vibe, I'm going with this. I don't you do.

I already am I step ahead of you, buddy. There's never, okay? Okay, that's it. There you go. This is Pointeena. This is the, I was going to say the title track, but no, this was the big hit. This is the big hit. Which we'll get into later for the lore.

There's very few recordings. where you say where you're that's used as a oh play a poincean a crew right play a blank blank blank yeah this is that yeah and everybody of course it means for nil for a year it's you normally tell the drummer but it's the baseline it's the arrangement it's the minimalism but at times the maximalism of module all the ways voicing out and rolling those chords these block chords something this isn't a bad way it's like the world's greatest hotel lobby trio this is what sound like you're like you walk into a hotel lobby and you were like wow okay i'm gonna just stand here i'm not gonna check in i'm just gonna sit here and listen to this it was uh

a wikipedia page about this album that was some of the early criticism when it first came out that it was uh two cocktail piano right which is like if you imagine the cocktail piano playing like that's a but that's like saying like a wonderful burger that's elevated by a great chef what's just a We're not fans of justives. The vibe is unmatched. And the range, I mean, the way that that line keeps going as he's going, it overlaps. Okay. And this whole record, the vibe, I think, not only of the arrangements of the tunes of the playing,

but of hearing the audience, the chatter at times and stuff. Like, that adds, I mean, that's a cool thing on a live record, right? It's got a vibe. One of those iconic moments in all music that go into this group. And a lot of people think the. bass line is different than the counter melody than a mob play. A lot of people play the bass, which you could do, but they're not playing the same thing there. Yeah, details.

Five, ten out of ten. Now, compositions slash arranging. I'm going to go with this. This is the last tune on the album. What's new? I'm going to give the piano tuner tuning a four. This is this arrangement. Every arrangement on here is a genius arrangement.

This one I chose in particular because I think how influential it's been. It's foresight well beyond its years is rampant. You talk about walking the ballads, but this is a two-feel ballad doesn't get as better. Freedom that from California by doing the groove in that way, it gives you the 16th notes or the 8th note triples. So it'd be like, bap-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b or pop-b-ppb-b. Right? Those are all available in the usual.

the craft arrangement. I play so much brushes on this album, too. Drummers, when you're playing in a piano trio, brushes can be your friends. Don't feel like you always have to do it, but it is. It gives us so much more space. Yep.

We're still in the head here. Ostensibly. But what really shines in this arrangement that happens after this last A section. And the last play a lot of them. People don't, maybe they don't get to the end of the record. They're like, oh, he barely plays anything on the other record. This one, B lets it fly.

Here it is. Yeah. And every tune on this, all eight tracks have some kind of thing. Yeah. Some kinds of a range. That's not, those aren't things. Those are fangs. That's all right.

Okay. Let's move on here to sound. How about you in Vermont? The sound. Oh, you can feel the vibe. Oh, you can feel like, I got ten out of ten. Oh, yeah. I'm sorry.

We're just like, we're just assuming. Assume everything's a ten unless we think. So for sound, Peter, I've got a 9 out of 10. And it's really because of the piano tubing more than anything. I don't mind that it sounds like it was recording in the late 50s. I think when you hear... That adds to the vibe, maybe. It does add to the vibe.

But when you hear, like, if this was cleanly recorded in the video, it would not have the same effect. And the sound of the room, the sound of like the kick drum, the bass, I think is just beautiful. So I've got a 9 out of 10 for it. Interesting. I did 9 as well, but not for the tuning, because I wasn't really necessarily saying that.

I think we're talking audio sound well, that's not the, but to me, the bass and the drums, I think, are 10 out of 10. To me, the piano, it's a little, like the reverb on it or the spaceway, whatever they did with it, and we could be listening to an altered version or what to me is not, I mean, yeah, the tune maybe is part of that, but it's a little bit washy or spacey, spatial compared to the bass and the drum. But very little, I mean, the record sounds great. Like, you're not going to love a record like this. Even if everything is 10 out of 10, if the sound is like 5 out of 10 to me, it's very hard to listen to it. But I mean, listen to that brush sound.

I know. And this is in a club. I know. And then you still have the people, the vibe of the room. You can hear plates clanging around. And I'm pretty sure that the Pershing Hotel does not have the perfect accrues. Although maybe they did. Maybe it was.

I don't know. Sounds pretty good to me. Yeah. Next up we've got sequence, track sequence. So any album that starts like this. Yeah. This is the first track that comes to me. Check it out.

When he goes into that beat there on the last part, on the second part of that first eight. Yeah. Man. Okay, we're going back to playing or raised this? But this is such an amazing setup. And the way that it blends from here at the end of this, into Surrey, into this in the moonlight.

Yeah. Music, music, music. The segues are all. No greater love. Six track, Point Sienna. Yeah. The real hit, the vinyl. comes on the last three tunes.

Woody and you? Kind of a burner to end. And then that what's new with that amazing, like, unstoppable groove. It's a 10 out of 10 for me. Yeah, I've got 10 out of 10 already. But what's interesting is, I think that you could mix up

the sequence of these tunes in almost any way, and I probably would still give it a 10 out of 10. Just because they do flow great, but I think the arrangements, the playing, it's just all so strong. When you hit a certain level, I don't think it's like, oh, that what makes this record is the perfect sequencing.

I think it is perfect. I'm giving it 10, but I think that this isn't the only sequence that could work. But it's great. Cover art. Can we put that cover art back up here? And it's listening to the podcast. You can Google this now. We're going off of, I think, what is the original cover art,

which is a sort of picture of Ahmad from below as he's playing the piano. I'm going to give it a 9 out of 10. I think it's really good. I love the font, very, you know, that very mid-century font. I love the photo of them. I don't love the mic stand in the middle of the photo. It's a little bit of a compositional, I mean, it's not terrible, but it's also not great. Yeah.

You know. Yeah, I'm going seven on this. And that was mainly because of the mic stand, the coloring on it, just the, I don't know. I didn't want to go any higher than that because I feel like this should be totally decoupled to, from how much I love the rack. I know. It's not really the band's fault, but it is, as far as the whole experience, you know, it is, it is part of it. Okay, the title, I also have a nine. I think it could have either been Amma Jamal at the Pershing. Are you jumping ahead here? Have you done all yours? Okay, I didn't do mine. Sorry. I'm, yeah, I've already filled out the rest. You're good. So I think it could have either been Amad Jamal at the Pershing or Amad Jamal, but not for me. Amma Jamal, but not for me, is a little long. Yeah. I got it as an eight for the first.

that pretty much the same reason. It's a little bit... Like, I always feel like whenever we talk about this record, there's always like clarification, like, but not for me. The tune, the album, or live at the Pershing. Or Ponceana, some people... Yeah.

When they call... That's the biggest reference point. But it's very accurate at the Pershing. And I can't take points off because I can't pronounce it. That's not fair. So I went with an 8. So, lore, I've got a 10 out of 10. I got a 10 out of 10 too.

Yeah. So there's some really great... Even if you just look at Wikipedia on this, there's some really... really great story. So Poinsiana was a massive jazz hit. Yeah. The tune was a mass from this record. A charted instrumental, wasn't it? A charted instrumental back in the days when you could do that. Yeah. And it, uh, the success of that track and of, of the album's success, uh, allowed Amad Jamal to open his own club and restaurant, the Alhambra. Yeah. Another great live at Dalhomber. Another great record.

So just from that, that this six, that this was such a successful pop album, like a popular. album. Right. And that Poinsiano was actually a dance track. It says here people use it as a dance track. I mean, it's an incredible work of art. I think the lore of this, it's interesting that you went off of that. There's different. Also the beat of Poinsina. I add that to the lore. That's what I was going to say. Like this record is so influential. Yeah. For drummers, for the vibe, but also for people loving jazz. Like they don't even know like why they love it because they heard this around that time, obviously this was a very fertile type 58, 59, 60 for some incredible records, some of the biggest selling, kind of acoustic swinging type jazz albums. I mean, piano trio,

this is like crazy. But I think also the lore of like just what a trio can do and how influential can be. Talk about the greatest cocktail trio ever. Like that's actually part of the lore. You know what I mean? And you hear the clinking glasses. But I mean, this record was so influential on Miles Davis and what he did with his groups and how he did. And how he did. And how he he wanted his rhythm sections to play. Totally. You know what I mean? And like how he put his arrangements together

and sketches of Spain. Space. You know, space and miles ahead in those records. So like this was, and not just this record, but this trio and this is probably sort of the popular pinnacle.

I mean, in some ways I enjoy, like if a gun to my head, I might say live at Alhambor is my favorite of these two records. But it would be a toss-up. So it's not even like, oh, this was the one time

that they reset. There's a number of records. I mean, The Awakening from 1970. I love that record. of Ahmad. Like, Ahmad was, like, at that level and maintained that for many years. But I would say that this, because it had the popularity and the Poinceana on it, kind of like in the way that K-O-B, a little foreshadowing here, you know, did, like, was that Miles' greatest record? I mean, it might not even be his greatest record from that five-year span or

whatever, but when you combine it with the popularity, with the zeitgeist and beyond the jazz world. So, yeah, 10. Snobometer. Okay, refresh me on this. Do snobs like this record. loves it. No, I don't know. It has, is out of the picture here. I want on Linda back in this. Do snobs like it. Do snobs like this? Yes. I have a 10 out of 10. Yeah, of course they love it. Snobs love it. But wait, you know what? We need to go a little bit. Are there some snobs that are like, no, Al-Hambra, like, well, I just did that. You know, that would say a little bit lesser known record. Is it too popular for a snob to love it? No. I'm going nine. Okay. I'm saying that some snobs would be like, that's not a mod's greatest record. Maybe, maybe, but I think 10.

I think every, every musician, snobiest musicians even appreciate this album. Okay. I still have some homework to do on understanding this, but let's move on. It's a very confusing. I'm not, this is not your fault, Peter. It's a confusing. Oh, is it better than KLB. This is a hard one.

Is it better? And so KOB is at a 9, right? And so we rate this compared to Kind of Blue. Miles Davis is Kind of Blue. Is it at Kind of Blue? Is it below? Is it above? I'm putting this one, my very first ever.

10. Oh. It is better than Candleau Blue. That's my first. Since we've adjusted. You did a couple that were better. Yeah, but that was when it was zero or 10. That's right.

Yeah. I am saying this is a 10 better than kind of blue for me. Okay. I'm going nine because I think it's right there. On par. You know, I think that it's sort of silly because like, but it's similar to kind of blue. I couldn't tell you a record that is better, but I think that there are some things that could, I don't know why I did that nine. But I did that's what I did.

All right. Should we score these bad boys up? Let's count our scores up. And do our favorite tracks. Put my bespoke answer first. All right, let's do it. You got it. Okay.

Amad Jamal at the Pershing, but not for me. My total score was 92. I told you we'd be in the 90s. Well, I knew being in the night. I feel like it's just a 99. This is a great... You're disappointed at your own score. I'm disappointed my own score.

Maybe it's our system. If you were to ask me, what grade would I give this record? I would give it an A plus. And so I feel like my 92 doesn't do that justice, but... I guess you don't really like it. You know what, Sue me? I'm honest in our, in our obviously, you know, lacking scoring system here.

And what's your... My favorite track. I mean, this was such a toss-up, but I love Moonlight in Vermont. That's great track. You know what I mean? But I could... I love them all.

Sue me. What do you got? My score is 97. Damn! My favorite track. That's what my score should have been. My favorite track, but not for me. But you know what?

I don't like this. Oh, God. Anyone with the title, yeah? This is the thing... This is the first time, by the way, I've had a higher score than you. I know.

This is what's not fair. I will not give it up that you love this. record five points better than me. I think I love this record as much or more than you or anybody on this planet. I'm not sure if that's true. This is in my top three. Is it in your top three? What's your top three? I would have to think a little bit about it, but... I mean, this would be in my top 10. This is in my very favorite album. You know what? You know what it is? I think did a little bit of a number on me. That fact, and what I mentioned, like loving Alhambra so much, that record. Yeah, you got

to get in your head on Alhambra. Yeah. To me, this smokes Alhambra, but that's another. It's Well, Al Humber is like a 63. It's like a 60. No, it's kidding. I love Al Humberra, but this, to me, it's better. It's a B plus. It's like an F. All right, this was fun.

I love this. Really great, too. Put your score in the, uh, let me just say to Amad Jamal. Did you ever get a chance to meet him? I think I did meet him at the bistro when I was a kid. Yeah. Yeah.

Back in the day. I was just saying, I had a few encounters. And he was such a, you know, if you get a chance, go to Brian. But it was very like, hey, you know, nice to meet you. Yeah. It's just real brief. Yeah. Yeah.

was such a great, I mean, all my encounters with him were briefed. I did travel in a van with him for like 30 minutes one time and like talked to him. Yeah, it was awesome. Like we were sitting in the back thing and we talked. I mean, he was such of course, gentlemen, sweet guy. A lot of people talk about that. But he was such

a giving person to younger musicians. Yeah. Which not everybody is. And like that set such a great example for me. I always think of him. Yeah. And McCoyton, others that I encountered Kenny Kirkland. Like when I meet a young pianist, I'm like, man, I hope I can be half as kind and just illuminating. He was such an illuminating soul.

And we were also lucky with Amadrabal because he, as he aged, and even through the 2000s and he was getting older, he stayed so healthy. Yeah. And like physically and artistically. Like he was still making albums. He's still making good music. He's still playing great, you know, all the way up to near the end. And it was a real gift to all of us that we got to see him.

Like I saw him so many times and he was still playing clubs. It's a lot like, you know, Wayne towards the end of his life. still playing still making great music herbie now right you know herbies we're still seeing them at festivals he's still touring all over the place he's making albums like impactful albums it's amazing yeah and we're just uh wow this is crazy i was looking as i knew it was around this time we just lost uh mr jemal a year ago april 16th 2023 so thank you um until next time you'll hear it